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Sometimes the focus on the middle of the road blinds us to what the road is in the middle of. The doctrine and cause being propagated by Booker Rising is a conservative ideology derived from white conservatives and co-opted by some credulous or uncaring black folk. As I have said many times, most black people practice conservatism, to one degree or another, in politics and economics on a micro individual level. However, most black folks are intelligent enough to differentiate the means and goals of micro conservatism, in which they set and control the platform, vs that of a Macro political conservatism in which they have no control over the platform or agenda.

Just because a concept has merits does not therefore mean that the application of the concept will be with merit. This is because when applying conservatism to your personal life (micro level), one has the benefit of baring witness to causes and effects. However, in regards to applying a micro conservatism across a populous, one cannot bare witness to the varying degree and kind of causes and effects and hence must make assumptions. This is where prejudice comes in because the macro conservative platform is formed by white's assumptions, stereotypes and prejudices in regards to black and poor peoples.
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However, most black folks are intelligent enough to differentiate the means and goals of micro conservatism, in which they set and control the platform, vs that of a Macro political conservatism in which they have no control over the platform or agenda.


And could you tell me what "platform" YOU have control over?

Benton Harbor, Gary, Newark, East St. Louis, Camden, Clevland. It is true that there are Black electorial control of the "platform" and the platform closely mirrors the "Democratic Party road".

Despite having control of the land it is Black Commentator who talks about the "flight of capital" that destoryed these cities. Reading in between the lines they are talking about when "the White folks left".

Yet we have an active group of Black Progressive Fundementalists who HATE CAPITALISM and CORPORATIONS but they desire the STANDARD OF LIVING and RESOURCES that these entities bring.

Now I guess it is time to pull out my second essay "The Lie That The Black Anti-Capitalist Lives In America"
CF....I see you never answered my question on how a black could logically support policy that reduces college enrollment and professional opportunities........for blacks. I know there is not a logical answer...which proves in itself that that type of behavior is also illogical....and that is why I will never really take BlackCon's serious.....they cannot even justify what they stand for from a pro-black perspective.....but I always knew it was a motherf-king waste of time time to rationalize that bullschit you all espouse....continue to run from the question.....all black conservatives do the same thing......ignore the question.....and keep on pushing that pro-white bullschit as if someone forgot that they were asked the question in the first place....ya'll "aint" schit....and come across as the descendants of the same negroes that told the (fellow) slaves that slavery is not all that bad and at least we have somewhere to live and get fed.......ya'll really trip me the f-k out.....
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I see you never answered my question on how a black could logically support policy that reduces college enrollment and professional opportunities........for blacks.



This position of yours FAILS to consider all of the forces that are at play with the debate.

In my view to strongly advocate for Affirmative Action Admissions but to FAIL to EFFECTIVELY address what YOU AND I agree is the root problem: Inadequate preparation in MIDDLE/HIGH SCHOOL education that short changes our children and thus amplifies the need for AA university admissions is placing emphasis on the wrong pressure point.

The strategy that you emphasize places more dependency on the agreement among some Whites to yeild seats at prestigeous schools via this policy and legislation than it does FIX THE MIDDLE/HIGH SCHOOL SYSTEM FOR ALL BLACKS INCLUDING THE ONE'S WHO DON'T ATTEMPT TO ATTEND AN ELITE WHITE INSTITUTION

Once again - it is funny how I can be taken to task for supporting Charter schools because they don't benefit ALL BLACK STUDENTS but you all give a pass to AFFIRMATIVE ACTION which does not help Black kids who don't attend an elite school with more applications than they do freshman seats. Secondly the "brain drain" that is claimed in vouchers and charter schools IS THE CASE WITH AFFIRMATIVE ACTION ADMISSSIONS THAT SENDS THE BEST AND BRIGHTEST AFRICAN AMERICAN MINDS TO WHITE ELITE INSTITUTIONS.

(on a side note - I am sure that all of you know Tkcal. He is another Black radial Fundementalist. He frequently talks about Black Nationalism. Yet he couldn't help but to beam about his supposed girl friend who has a LAW DEGREE FROM HARVARD. Harvard, Princeton and the rest of the Ivy League schools are valued by WHITE ELITES, the same folks that you all often talk about. Yet this Black Nationalist felt that his girl was more valuable because she attended.

You all swear that I am brainwashed but you can't even see the greater examples in yourselves.)
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Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:
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I see you never answered my question on how a black could logically support policy that reduces college enrollment and professional opportunities........for blacks.



This position of yours FAILS to consider all of the forces that are at play with the debate.

In my view to strongly advocate for Affirmative Action Admissions but to FAIL to EFFECTIVELY address what YOU AND I agree is the root problem: Inadequate preparation in MIDDLE/HIGH SCHOOL education that short changes our children and thus amplifies the need for AA university admissions is placing emphasis on the wrong pressure point.

The strategy that you emphasize places more dependency on the agreement among some Whites to yeild seats at prestigeous schools via this policy and legislation than it does FIX THE MIDDLE/HIGH SCHOOL SYSTEM FOR ALL BLACKS INCLUDING THE ONE'S WHO DON'T ATTEMPT TO ATTEND AN ELITE WHITE INSTITUTION

Once again - it is funny how I can be taken to task for supporting Charter schools because they don't benefit ALL BLACK STUDENTS but you all give a pass to AFFIRMATIVE ACTION which does not help Black kids who don't attend an elite school with more applications than they do freshman seats. Secondly the "brain drain" that is claimed in vouchers and charter schools IS THE CASE WITH AFFIRMATIVE ACTION ADMISSSIONS THAT SENDS THE BEST AND BRIGHTEST AFRICAN AMERICAN MINDS TO WHITE ELITE INSTITUTIONS.

(on a side note - I am sure that all of you know Tkcal. He is another Black radial Fundementalist. He frequently talks about Black Nationalism. Yet he couldn't help but to beam about his supposed girl friend who has a LAW DEGREE FROM HARVARD. Harvard, Princeton and the rest of the Ivy League schools are valued by WHITE ELITES, the same folks that you all often talk about. Yet this Black Nationalist felt that his girl was more valuable because she attended.

You all swear that I am brainwashed but you can't even see the greater examples in yourselves.)


CF,
I did not ask you what was the solution to correcting the deficiencies in schools, I asked you about the logic behind non-support for AA policy in particular given the performance measurements it is known to influence on behalf of blacks. I'll try again, what would make a black person support policy that reduces educational attainment and professional inclusion for black people? What is beneficial about less black people in colleges and in the workplace? Is that clear?
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I did not ask you what was the solution to correcting the deficiencies in schools, I asked you about the logic behind non-support for AA policy in particular given the performance measurements it is known to influence on behalf of blacks. I'll try again, what would make a black person support policy that reduces educational attainment and professional inclusion for black people? What is beneficial about less black people in colleges and in the workplace? Is that clear?



Your question does not bring to the table all of the forces that impact the EFFECTIVENESS and CONTINUED PRESENCE OF AFFIRMATIVE ACTION.

The fact remains that AA requires the willingness of WHITE FOLKS (who you don't give an F about) to yield some freshman seats so that Black folks can receive education.

This places our forward march at risk of White approval.

I am not an "opponent to AA". I believe that there is a need to focus on other groundwork to allow MORE AFRICAN AMERICANS to flood into our higher educational institutions.
The first thing that you should have done, Renaldo, was to seek clarification of my working definition of micro conservatism. Of course you did not want to know that or the context in which it was used because you wanted in rebuttal with one of your "prepackage" propositions.

The conservatism that we have control over in our daily lives is in regards to approaches and methods taken with our family and friend to help or motivate behavior and finances. We have the ability to bare witness to the specific causes and effects of individuals in our direct sphere of influence, which then may or may not cause for a conservative or liberal approach to dealing with.

Go back to the drawing board.
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Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:


The fact remains that AA requires the willingness of WHITE FOLKS (who you don't give an F about) to yield some freshman seats so that Black folks can receive education.


We live in a white world. How else do we create progress for ourselves if we are unwilling to seek change in a world that happens to be dominated by whites?
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We live in a white world. How else do we create progress for ourselves if we are unwilling to seek change in a world that happens to be dominated by whites?



Surely the CHINESE don't think this way.

They understand POWER RELATIONSHIPS. In leveraging their economic and political position they MORE THAN ANY OTHER FORCE IN RECENT HISTORY is causing the United States and the White folks who control AND WORK within it deep seated concern about their ability to compete in the world and to have economic ownership of this country.

The Chinese are confounding your very statement with a gradual and disciplined approach.

They say:America is full of CAPITALIST CONSUMERS? We will give them EXACTLY what they want at lower prices. Their factories will shut down and they will lose the skills that they once developed in running them TO US. Masses of their people will be unemployed. WE WILL OWN THEM as they depend on us spending BILLIONS OF DOLLARS PER DAY in investments in their country to keep their SYSTEM OF CONSUMPTION GOING.

Sometimes in a battle it is better NOT to confront you opponent but to assist him in over-eating so that he will one day die of a heart attack.
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Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:

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We live in a white world. How else do we create progress for ourselves if we are unwilling to seek change in a world that happens to be dominated by whites?



Surely the CHINESE don't think this way.


Those within China who are 'in need' are fighting against other Chinese for their rights, not against people who have in the past enslaved and exploited them. Furthermore, their society is established under a set of principles (socialism/communism) that approach the needs of 'the people' in a fundamentally different way. Likewise, their global leverage is based upon their economic power, the fact that they have 1.3 billion people, and moreover, that they have the military might that demands our respect. How does African Americans' situation compare to that?

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The Chinese are confounding your very statement with a gradual and disciplined approach.


How else would you characterize the African American fight for rights etc. in this country if not "gradual and disciplined"? Sure it could be MORE aggressive and more disciplined, but I'm not sure what contrast you are trying to make here.

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Sometimes in a battle it is better NOT to confront you opponent but to assist him in over-eating so that he will one day die of a heart attack.


Well, on this very board we've discussed many things which are consistent, I think, with the spirit of your comment, such as this.
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How else would you characterize the African American fight for rights etc. in this country if not "gradual and disciplined"? Sure it could be MORE aggressive and more disciplined, but I'm not sure what contrast you are trying to make here.


http://www.chicagodefender.com/page/commentary.cfm?ArticleID=1499

Here is a recent article by Dr Ronald Walters, political scientist in which he questioned the choice of a business man to take the helm of the organization rather than a person steeped in traditional civil rights leadership.

Dr. Walters said that while this person my do well in the area of economic development he may not be able to address civil rights issues such as "red-lining and discrimination in access to capital".

Clearly Dr. Walters does not get the point that with ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT and independence you are less inclined to go to a mega-bank for them to red line you in the first place. You will build the financial infrastructure in you own community to support the investments in you community.
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Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:

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How else would you characterize the African American fight for rights etc. in this country if not "gradual and disciplined"? Sure it could be MORE aggressive and more disciplined, but I'm not sure what contrast you are trying to make here.


http://www.chicagodefender.com/page/commentary.cfm?ArticleID=1499

Here is a recent article by Dr Ronald Walters, political scientist in which he questioned the choice of a business man to take the helm of the organization rather than a person steeped in traditional civil rights leadership.

Dr. Walters said that while this person my do well in the area of economic development he may not be able to address civil rights issues such as "red-lining and discrimination in access to capital".

Clearly Dr. Walters does not get the point that with ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT and independence you are less inclined to go to a mega-bank for them to red line you in the first place. You will build the financial infrastructure in you own community to support the investments in you community.


How are these comments connected to those above them?

You inferred that African Americans shouldn't be "working the system" to create change because we would, according to your characterization, be "pandering" to white folks. What does China have to do with that? How else are we going to gain progress in a white country?
You said "we are living in a 'White man's world".

I refuted that the Chinese (who are not European) think otherwise. (Unless you are calling them 'White')

I then told you that this is a world of POWER RELATIONS and detailed how China is causing great fear and consternation about White Americans and even BLACK AMERICANS' who fate is also tied to the fortunes of America per our current alignment.

In summary this is NOT a White man's world. It is a long term sprint to create interlocking relationships in which you use your skill and advantage in certain areas to trade with others as you supply their needs in exchange for something of value from them.
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Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:

You said "we are living in a 'White man's world".


This is the G8. What is the overwhelming complexion of this group of the world's leading and most powerful countries?



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I then told you that this is a world of POWER RELATIONS and detailed how China is causing great fear and consternation about White Americans and even BLACK AMERICANS' who fate is also tied to the fortunes of America per our current alignment.


Please reread and respond to my earlier question.


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Originally posted by MBM:

Likewise, their global leverage is based upon their economic power, the fact that they have 1.3 billion people, and moreover, that they have the military might that demands our respect. How does African Americans' situation compare to that?


Confused


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It is a long term sprint to create interlocking relationships in which you use your skill and advantage in certain areas to trade with others as you supply their needs in exchange for something of value from them.


This is a romantic vision that, IMHO, has little to do with practical reality. Please name one example where you believe this to be the case. The world is largely built upon exploitation where the "haves" take from the "have nots".
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Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:
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We live in a white world. How else do we create progress for ourselves if we are unwilling to seek change in a world that happens to be dominated by whites?



Surely the CHINESE don't think this way.

They understand POWER RELATIONSHIPS. In leveraging their economic and political position they MORE THAN ANY OTHER FORCE IN RECENT HISTORY is causing the United States and the White folks who control AND WORK within it deep seated concern about their ability to compete in the world and to have economic ownership of this country.

The Chinese are confounding your very statement with a gradual and disciplined approach.

They say:America is full of CAPITALIST CONSUMERS? We will give them EXACTLY what they want at lower prices. Their factories will shut down and they will lose the skills that they once developed in running them TO US. Masses of their people will be unemployed. WE WILL OWN THEM as they depend on us spending BILLIONS OF DOLLARS PER DAY in investments in their country to keep their SYSTEM OF CONSUMPTION GOING.

Sometimes in a battle it is better NOT to confront you opponent but to assist him in over-eating so that he will one day die of a heart attack.


You are wrong again CF, but you never let that stop you and you never learn from it. Consequently, you are in an infinite loop of ignorance in which you can only break out of through the epiphany of acknowledging that you are wrong.

The truth of the matter is that the Chinese growth is directly correlated with Western direct capital investment. The Chinese leadership realized that they could not grow unless they changed the "whiteman" or catered to him and they choose the latter. They opened up their market and adopted policies that made it attractive for white nations to invest. As MBM said, whites dominate the world and thus you either have to beat them or join them and many are choosing to join because of their power.
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The truth of the matter is that the Chinese growth is directly correlated with Western direct capital investment. The Chinese leadership realized that they could not grow unless they changed the "whiteman" or catered to him and they choose the latter. They opened up their market and adopted policies that made it attractive for white nations to invest. As MBM said, whites dominate the world and thus you either have to beat them or join them and many are choosing to join because of their power.



So let me get this straight - The fact that the US economy would collapse if the Chinese were to stop their $2 billion PER DAY investments into the USA in order to fund the INBALANCE OF TRADE - still has you believing that THE WHITE MAN IS TOTALLY IN CONTROL OF THAT PARTICULAR RELATIONSHIP?


The most sorrowful thing about you Noah is that you have been so conditioned BY your enemy that you grant him more power and complete immortality than he actually has. (And you say that I am brainwashed. Simply Amazing).
There is no 2 billion per day investment. The Chinese gets dollars via their exportation of goods to the USA, which are purchased in dollars and those dollars go back to Chinese central banks. It is the trade imbalance with China that leaves china holding so many US dollars. What you speak of is not direct foreign investment, but simply the product of a trade imbalance. Furthermore, much of the goods imported from China to the USA are actually products built by US or Western transnational corporations with production plants in China.

China has only opened up and entered the pseudo free market in the last 20 years. How did the US economy become DEPENDANT upon China in that short time? The US economy is not dependant upon CHINA overall. The US economy rate of inflation is tied to cheap Chinese produced goods.....and that's it. We can produce everything that China can produce; however, they simply can produce it at a cheaper cost with comparative advantage. Our nation GDP is driven by domestic consumer consumption which comprised two-thirds of GDP. Thus, our economy is dependant upon the American consumer and if the nation can produce all the goods and services that consumers desires, creating jobs and opportunities for Americans in the process, then our economy is interdependent ONLY by choice but could stand on its own with the consequence being higher prices.

Chinas economy is dependant upon external consumers of goods and services it produces cheaply and with the Exception of Japan, that's white nations with high per capita incomes.

You try to be a jack of all trades (in your commentary) but you are obviously a master of NONE. Bo don't know economics 101.
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