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He may be no longer president and out of power, but Bill Clinton still controls the Democrat party. The Dems depend heavily on his ability to rake in the cash, while Clinton crony Terry McAuliffe heads the DNC. Make no mistake, the impeached ex-presidents fingerprints are all over this party.

What amazes me time and time again is the Svengali-like hold the Dems have over the black community. In the last presidential election, blacks pulled off a 90+% voter turnout for the Democrat ticket. This was even more amazing in that Gore/Lieberman was not an attractive team for many blacks.

My question is, what are you getting for such unwavering loyalty?? As I pointed out in another post, black representation in congress is almost non-existent. The 105th House had 37 blacks out of 435 members. There are no blacks serving in the senate, and only two served in the last 60 years. You can find more blacks in a Johnny Weismuller Tarzan movie than in congress.

And then there's the myth that blacks are better served by Dems. When I came on board here, I was reminded by some of how beneficial the Clinton/Gore years were for blacks. The latest one from Al From, founder and CEO of the Democratic Leadership Council, posted on another topic on this forum......
quote:
The data show that between 1993 and 2000, more than 8 million families -- including four million kids -- moved out of poverty, and the total poverty rate fell 25 percent, from 15.1 percent to 11.3 percent, the lowest level since 1974. That's the fastest rate of decline in poverty since Lyndon Johnson's Administration in the 1960s -- more than three times faster than in the Reagan Administration, during which poverty fell seven percent.

Just as significantly, poor families experienced rapid income gains during Clinton's presidency, and black and Hispanic families moved out of poverty faster than white families. By the end of Clinton's terms, black, Hispanic and single-mom families registered their lowest levels of poverty in history.


Unbelievable! Clinton's first two years in office were total failures. He became obsessed with his "don't ask, don't tell policy" for gays in the military, and there was the Hillary Clinton universal healthcare fiasco along with the ill-fated "BTU tax" on energy that was rejected by his own party.

Clinton took office with his party in control of both houses of congress. He never submitted a balanced budget to congress, and every budget he did submit was soundly rejected by his own party along with Republicans. And now Clinton wants to take credit for the growth of blacks and minorities during his term?

I have always said that it was the Reagan years that created the growth of black business and black middle class we know today. I have the numbers to prove it. These numbers will also show that minority growth started long before Clinton had the chance to get Monica in the Oval Office.

quote:
Black-owned firms increased 46 percent from 424,165 in 1987 to 620,912 in 1992. Receipts grew at a rate similar to that of all businesses, increasing 63 percent from $19.8 billion to $32.2 billion. Comparable data for all businesses show a 26 percent increase in number from 13.7 million in 1987 to 17.3 million in 1992, while receipts grew 67 percent from $1,995 billion to $3,324 billion.


These figures are from the 1992 Economic Census...
http://www.census.gov/prod/2/bus/mob/mb92-1.pdf

Looks like Reagan and Bush (elder) years were not as bad as Dems say. Looks like Clinton "inherited" a growing economy thanks to Reagan and Bush (elder). Notice how Mr. From gives no specifics as to what policies Clinton instituted to bring about this "minority miracle".

Clinton is no "New Democrat". Just the same old tax and spend Democrat out to grow more government. The black community needs to realize that the more their money stays in Washington, the less they will ever see real prosperity.

Sorry for the long-winded post, but this has been brewing up inside me too long. Had to let it out!

big grin big grin big grin
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MBM,

For years the republican pary has been painted as the "whites only country club" political party where blacks were not welcomed. The sad part is that there were republicans like that and they enjoyed the precieved exclusiveness that the republican party supposely gave. And you know once black people get even inkling that they are not welcome we tend not to forget or forgive. And thats to bad because I don't think that any blacks were argue against lower taxes, school choice, welfare reform, strong defense or a host of other conservative ideas.

Plus you need to remember the blacks form the backbone of the democratic party, and both white and black democratics have a lot to lose if blacks start switching over to the republican party, thus the lies and half-truths that are started about what the republicans are trying to do to black america. I'm sure everybody has seem the stories about trying to take us back to the old days when civil rights were non-existent, problem is that no republican has even come remotely close to putting forth anything that would come close to rolling back what we have gained from civil rights.

So there, it is an emotionally charged issue where facts are discounted and meaningless charges are used to race bait people into voting democratic even when it is apparent that the democratic party takes us for granted.
If I may add my 2 cents worth of thoughts and opinion...

Simply put... Many Black folks have been mislead about the Republicans and are also afraid of being branded non-Democratic...

Any and every Black individual that professes Republican leanings, be they in the national spot light or not, is considered an Uncle Tom, a sell out, Acting White, a traitor to the Black cause, selfish ect... What rational person wants to be called this!!!...

Freedom of thought and opinion amongst Black folks is fine as long as it agrees with the base line laid down by the NAALCP and JJ's organizations... But true freedom of thought is frowned upon...

A couple of people have posted thoughts concerning their perceived on going "slave mentality" of Blacks... Well... If there is a Master on the plantation, it is the Democratic Leadership and its legions that promote and continue this mentality... The best way to keep you loyal and "keep you on the farm" is to make you accountable and dependable upon ME!!!... A good Democrat!!!...

.

------------------------------
The Liberal/Progressive mantra: "We are the champions of diversity and opinions... We tolerate all beliefs, all religions, and all customs.......... Unless they disagree with ours!"
Freedom of thought is okay as long as it fits in with the reality one faces. If one affiliates themselves with someone who has been and is clearly still detrimental to them, then they are confused, not unique. I always ask black conservatives and republicans to explain things in terms of policy outcomes and to look at the legislative histories of those they want to be affiliated with and to make sure that those people are truly thinking in their best self-interest. I have yet to hear a black republican or conservative offer an alternative to affirmative action in light of the rampant discrimination and unfair practices they see on the news daily. JC Watts left because he did not get any input into the party decision making process. hell, they do not even have delegates of color in their national convention, let alone policy makers
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin41:
Freedom of thought is okay as long as it fits in with the reality one faces. If one affiliates themselves with someone who has been and is clearly still detrimental to them, then they are confused, not unique. I always ask black conservatives and republicans to explain things in terms of policy outcomes and to look at the legislative histories of those they want to be affiliated with and to make sure that those people are truly thinking in their best self-interest. I have yet to hear a black republican or conservative offer an alternative to affirmative action in light of the rampant discrimination and unfair practices they see on the news daily. JC Watts left because he did not get any input into the party decision making process. hell, they do not even have delegates of color in their national convention, let alone policy makers


So what makes you think that the independent thinkers in this forum aren't talking about the reality that they face. I gather from your response that anybody who doesn't carry the party line as dictated by our esteemed leaders they are confused. I know that I live in a different part of the country but what rampant discrimination and unfair practices do you see on a daily basis. For sure this country has some serious issues to deal with but every day on the daily news, I must be watching the wrong channels. As for policy, what is it about lower taxes, school choice, welfare reform and a host of other conservative ideas that democrats seem to fear.
quote:

Originally posted by jazzdog:

I know that I live in a different part of the country but what rampant discrimination and unfair practices do you see on a daily basis. For sure this country has some serious issues to deal with but every day on the daily news, I must be watching the wrong channels.



jazzdog see this thread from this forum. this is but one example of what we deal with daily. do you not feel or see this?
quote:
Originally posted by shy1:
quote:

Originally posted by jazzdog:

I know that I live in a different part of the country but what rampant discrimination and unfair practices do you see on a daily basis. For sure this country has some serious issues to deal with but every day on the daily news, I must be watching the wrong channels.



jazzdog see this https://www.africanamerica.org/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=60260642&f=79160213&m=298609764 from this forum. this is but one example of what we deal with _daily_. do you not feel or see this?


Jazzdog's quote is in response to an earlier poster who said that republicans don't tend to speak out about the "rampant discrimination" in question. I think the poster is right (Kevin, I think it was). Blacks bear the brunt of police brutality, for a number of reasons. Democratic leaders tend to speak out against police brutality, while Republicans tend to back the cops. To liberals, the brutal police have to be eliminated. To conservatives, blacks need to do something about the crime that places them disproportionately at risk of police brutality.

I can't be the only person who sees that both problems need fixing. As I've said many times on other forums, the conservative-liberal continuum either evolved or was created for the purpose of aligning the electorate into fairly predictable groupings. This process guarantees that no more than two parties dominate. One good thing about it is that it helps keep this country politically stable. But the bad thing is that it keeps the masses from looking at things holistically. It shouldn't be hard to see that yes, brutal police are criminals, and that yes, blacks need to get our house in order. I have yet to hear one politician speak out about both.

(I once heard Al Sharpton addressing a group of students about blacks needing to get their house in order, but he hasn't made that part of his public agenda.)

All of this is why I strongly question Jazzdog's reference to black conservatives as "independent thinkers" earlier in this thread. If you adopt a party's position on almost every issue, you are not really an independent thinker, no matter which party it happens to be.

But I will say that maybe if blacks weren't so slavishly plopping our butts down on the grass of the Democratic plantation, our issues would be viewed in a more multi-faceted, less one-dimensional way by both parties, and we would see more progress (and be better thinkers).
funny how different blacks think they have different realities.....until they all get pulled over by the cops late at night....or try to purchase a house in an exclusive neighborhood with higher incomes and better credit than others ....or that affirmative action did not help them....when higher qualified blacks have to file lawsuits to get theirs.....i don't think like a victim....but i will not deny the reality of other blacks.....to make my self more palatable to some segregationists who left the democratic party in protest of the Civil Rights Act of 1964...it doesn't work...just ask JC
The issue was not that it doesn't happen, my reply was to the comment that we see it on a daily basis in the news. When I say independent thinker I meant that I have no problem seeing issues and maybe thinking about them in a different manner then the herd mentality that so many blacks show. The truth whether you want to admit it is that many blacks don't know the issues, all they know is that black leaders tell them this is bad for you, vote this way, this person is trying to take away your rights and BLAM they they are voting the same old way and not once did their bother to look at the issues themselves and come to their own conclusions. Thats what I meant by independent thinker, heck there are even some good ideas by the democratic party. Maybe instead of calling myself a conservative I should call myself a centralist.

As far as the reality of blacks, I know that the things you brought up do happen the facts are there, but in my reality, none of that has happened to me, maybe I'm just lucky who knows. As far as affirmative action I thinks its sad that we can't even recongize our own for having climbed the ladder without pulling them down and implieding that AA and not hard work and dedication got them to where they are. Its bad enough when white folks question whether our abilities or our color got us there, but to have blacks automatically assume that every black needed affirmative action to get where they are is just sad.
"..Why do you think that blacks are not more receptive to a republican message...?"

About a year ago, I would have answered with the statement that liberal politicians along with their willing accomplices in Big Media have been successful in demonizing any and all things conservative.

While much of that is true, I feel it really goes a lot deeper than that. One thing I have noticed is the comfort level in the black community with Democrats. Look at your major cities that have large black populations and you will find the majority of employed blacks have either government jobs or private sector jobs with big unions. Of course, Democrats run these cities and create these government jobs. Unions are almost universally in the corner of Democrats, using member paid union dues to fund campaigns.

Government jobs along with big union jobs provide the benefits, security, and retirement pensions most non union jobs cannot afford. My mother is a retired Social Security employee. My father is a retired steelworker. They will never want for anything for the rest of their lives and think Democrats are gods from heaven.

With that kind of comfort level, who's going to listen to a bunch of Republicans talking about the "evils" of an overgrown, oversized, ever-expanding big government?

"...If republicans have been better for black America, why aren't we voting to continue that...?"

Much of what I posted above, and one word....MISINFORMATION!! Far too many of us are uninformed on the issues of today. We are busy people with lives to live and we don't take the time to do any investigating. That 1992 economic census report has over 100 pages. Dan Rather on the evening news has 60 second soundbites all prepared for you to swallow. You've just put in your 8 hours plus overtime because your co-worker did not show up, you turn on the tv to see a white cop beat a black man in handcuffs, and right away you ASSume this is happening all over this country!!

Nobody seems to notice that black officers were there at the scene. Better still, none of you would dare even to put on the uniform and ride with the cops for one stinkin' night to see the kind of trash they deal with as part of their job!

I'm not justifying the beating. I DON'T KNOW THE WHOLE STORY!! I don't label every decent white cop as racist either. Saying that these kinds of incidents happen on a daily basis is just plain ignorance, and it's just the kind of voter Democrat and Republican politicians prey upon. Nothing brings in the votes like raising emotions to a fever pitch.

big grin big grin big grin
B Bankins,

Oh, so little time and so much to say!! I am going to throw my .02 in here to answer your first post and will try to get back to you regarding the rest of your opinions at a later time!

First of all, I am not one of the "misinformed." In fact, not only do I pay attention to what's going on in this country, but I keep my eye on what's going on in several others as well. Dan Rather is okay, but there's no way I'm going to have as my only news source the American media ... who I truly believes motto is "ignorance is bliss." Especially with the rhetoric currently being spewed by this current Administration. But, I digress ....

You're question, what are they doing for me lately? It never amazes me how the conservative republican party can look at figures such as the one's you posted and call them a myth! What strikes me with most of your kind, is that you will answer your own questions in a heartbeat ... and never know it!! Never recognize that the truth is in front of your eyes ... but it's not the one you're looking for, so it's not the real "truth!" And I'm sorry, that sounds crazy, because there is only one real truth!

In the quote you posted re: the properity Blacks realized in the Clinton years, afterward the first thing you did was talk about his first 2 years in office. That had nothing to do with the subject matter of that quote. You did not mention the plans he put into place to give us that added prosperity. Do you even understand what lowest-poverty level means? You expounded on what he didn't do ... but, if you could remove that blockage in your mind, you would have to see that he did something right ... because it worked! He DID make things better for minorities. He DID keep us in mind as he was formulating his plan for this country.

One year after the Repubs got their welfare plan passed, a majority of state governments were unable to give the money they had in their coffers away because of the stringent rules. They were unable to qualify just about anybody. Millions of dollars what would be taken by the gov't if not used, yet they could not use it themselves. And where do you think the poverty level is now?? Rising faster than Marilyn Monroe's skirt!!

Dems (and black people in particular) are loyal to those who are loyal to them. Because of staunch republican interference, backstabbing, and stonewalling, Dem leadership are not able to put through all the policies they say they will for us. But it's not for a lack of trying. Jazzdog speaks of lower taxes, school choice, yada, yada, yada ... but what of childcare, healthcare, community programs, closing that humongous educational gap? Things are real to the "average" person in this country? The only time I hear those mention in Republican dialogue is election time, when it seems like it's the right thing to say!

And as far as the beating ... yeah, there was a black & hispanic cop at the scene ... funny how they weren't the ones that slammed that handcuffed kid's head into the car or punched him in the face, isn't it? It could have been them... but it wasn't, was it? Whole story or not, it doesn't change what happened.

Okay, I know I've used up about a dime here, so I will step off my soapbox for now. But in summary, Black people support Dems (and, whom you call the reigning king of the Democratic party) because it is the one that doesn't distance us. It is the one that has the most understanding of "we're all in this together." It is the one that makes room for a country of people that are not all alike, and tries to embrace all of their common concerns as a whole. It is the one that wiped out our deficit, and wanted to have money in my social security account when it comes time for me to draw it. Not the one who gives it to big businesses who have retirement funds the size of federal budgets of some small countries.
Hello Ebony Rose,

I'm originally from the Texas City area by Galveston. I love Texas and the progressive nature of our people there. I now live in Los Angeles which is okay....but the quality of life does not compare.

Here is a blurb from an article i just read in an Atlanta newspaper:

Since 1964, when Barry Goldwater drew Southern whites with a "states' rights" campaign to block racial integration, the GOP has drawn more and more of its support from the states of the Old Confederacy.

To keep that support, the Republicans have believed it necessary to play the race card, whipping up fears of black crime (Willie Horton), portraying the welfare system as overwhelmingly benefiting blacks (the majority of recipients are actually white), rejecting affirmative action, downplaying the need for diversity and generally ignoring the aspirations of African-Americans. They call that the "Southern strategy."

Progressive Republicans counter suggestions of lingering racism in the GOP by pointing to the diversity of the Bush administration, with prominent black appointees such as Secretary of State Colin Powell, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice and Assistant Attorney General Larry Thompson. President Bush does deserve credit for raising the bar: He has given blacks more power than any predecessor, Democrat or Republican. (yeah, but none of their appointments have any bearing on domestic issues that affect most of us here in the USA)

But a diverse Bush Cabinet hardly changes the complexion -- or the politics -- of the GOP. Bush's efforts to make his party colorblind have not had much success beyond the Beltway around Washington.

Just look at the Georgia Legislature. Last year, Gov. Roy Barnes, a Democrat, persuaded the Legislature to end a lingering controversy by endorsing a new state flag. But most members of the Republican minority refused to go along, instead standing by a 1956 flag that prominently featured the Confederate battle insignia. They couldn't resist once again showing their solidarity with whites who remain hostile to black advancement.
Kevin41,

Funny, it's just the opposite for me!! I was born and bred in Los Angeles. I know live in SW Houston (although I'm very familiar with TX City ... we go fishing there all the time!) smile I really don't like it here, and will be moving back to Cali soon ... although I have no intention of return to Los Angeles (quality of life issues, I guess). I'm looking at the San Diego area.

The whole southern mentality, especially where politics are concerned, took a lot of getting used to. At this time, every high-profile elected position is held by a Republican, and to say the least, that's not only shocking but a very unique experience for me. To say that Dems are disregarding here is an understatement. However, when it comes to going to the polls and voting our conscious, at least here in Houston, the Dems will step up to the place when necessary! The voting to keep Affirmative Action policies was a coup that impressed me greatly! The fight for it was headed by a White Democrat mayor at the time, and he was able to get enough of his constituents to back the Black vote, and we killed the opposition where it stoood!

Still and yet, to counteract this potential "situation" that the Repubs may find themselves in in upcoming elections, they have chosen to press for the Hispanic vote to bolster their numbers, rather than to make a play to woo the Black voter over to their side. Once again, Dems are being disregarded and rather than taking a chance on waking a sleeping giant, they are passing us by, going to what will soon be the majority minority and giving them the kind of attention they have never considered giving to us.

But, 'southern strategy' didn't work in the 1860s, and I'm not so sure it's going to now. It seems the Republicans are not the type that learn from their mistakes. They just go and make new ones so that they can say they didn't repeat the old ones!

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