Skip to main content

What is the current state of black nationalism in the United States? What are the objectives of black nationalists today? Who are the current leaders in black nationalism? What are their strategies to achieve their objectives?

This thread comes from the talk about nationalism in the Nationalism vs. Assimilation thread, and adds to the Black Nationalism 2004 thread.

Just curious about what the latest thinking is on this.

© MBM

Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
In your opinion, is the idea . . . "outmoded" (in practical terms) in 2006? Also, is there any conceptual tension, in your opinion, between nationalism and Pan Africanism?

The idea is not outmoded and it deserves the same attention we, as a collective, have gien to integration.

And yes, there is a conceptual tension between Black nationalism and Pan Africanism because Black nationalism can't happen unless Pan African unity is realized.
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
In your opinion, is the idea . . . "outmoded" (in practical terms) in 2006? Also, is there any conceptual tension, in your opinion, between nationalism and Pan Africanism?


IMO, black nationalism (as it has existed to date) is a reactionary child born of American soil... It is provincial... miasmic... and as outmoded as the jheri curl... Pan Africanism is a truly international blossoming of the desire for Black self-determination...
quote:
Originally posted by Shango67:

Black nationalism can't happen unless Pan African unity is realized.


Couldn't black nationalism occur on a small scale basis without the broader connection? For example, couldn't a Haiti exist without that country manifesting a meaningful connection to other black folks elsewhere?

I agree wholeheartedly in the optimal version, just wondering about your thoughts on this.
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
In your opinion, is the idea . . . "outmoded" (in practical terms) in 2006? Also, is there any conceptual tension, in your opinion, between nationalism and Pan Africanism?


IMO, black nationalism (as it has existed to date) is a reactionary child born of American soil... It is provincial... miasmic... and as outmoded as the jheri curl... Pan Africanism is a truly international blossoming of the desire for Black self-determination...

I agree in part. Black nationalism COULD BE a PROACTIVE response to white supremacy if done correctly. I am not ready to throw away Black nationalism in amerikkka because its potential for liberation and empowerment is far greater than voting in a national election every four years.
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:

quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
In your opinion, is the idea . . . "outmoded" (in practical terms) in 2006? Also, is there any conceptual tension, in your opinion, between nationalism and Pan Africanism?


IMO, black nationalism (as it has existed to date) is a reactionary child born of American soil... It is provincial... miasmic... and as outmoded as the jheri curl... Pan Africanism is a truly international blossoming of the desire for Black self-determination...


What if the heat continues to rise on the reparations movement and in 2016 the U.S. decides to grant a reparation in the form of a land grant - Israel-style. Who knows where. Is that completely implausible?
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
quote:
Originally posted by Shango67:

Black nationalism can't happen unless Pan African unity is realized.


Couldn't black nationalism occur on a small scale basis without the broader connection? For example, couldn't a Haiti exist without that country manifesting a meaningful connection to other black folks elsewhere?

I agree wholeheartedly in the optimal version, just wondering about your thoughts on this.

Haiti is in the condition it is primarily due to the weakness of Africans throughout the Diaspora and its lack of connection to Africa.

Black folks, everywhere, are the only people without a foreign or domestic policy.
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:

quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
In your opinion, is the idea . . . "outmoded" (in practical terms) in 2006? Also, is there any conceptual tension, in your opinion, between nationalism and Pan Africanism?


IMO, black nationalism (as it has existed to date) is a reactionary child born of American soil... It is provincial... miasmic... and as outmoded as the jheri curl... Pan Africanism is a truly international blossoming of the desire for Black self-determination...


What if the heat continues to rise on the reparations movement and in 2016 the U.S. decides to grant a reparation in the form of a land grant - Israel-style. Who knows where. Is that completely implausible?

Not implausible. But, I caution, anything looking like Israel for Black folks may not be the right move - I am speaking in terms of control and autonomy.
quote:
Originally posted by Shango67:
Not implausible. But, I caution, anything looking like Israel for Black folks may not be the right move - I am speaking in terms of control and autonomy.


Israel is highly dependent upon Western (read US) aid... The fact is, Israel, from its inception, has been a prime player in US geopolitical maneuvering in the region.
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:

Israel is highly dependent upon Western (read US) aid...


quote:
The fact is, Israel, from its inception, has been a prime player in US geopolitical maneuvering in the region.


Those two statements, while perhaps true, seem to be at odds with each other. While they may be highly dependent upon our aid, they also are - fa sho - wagging the dog on a lot! bsm
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:

quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
What if the heat continues to rise on the reparations movement and in 2016 the U.S. decides to grant a reparation in the form of a land grant - Israel-style. Who knows where. Is that completely implausible?


As implausible as George W. Bush admitting he made a mistake...


I don't know. Going from being considered a wild animal, a piece of chattel property, 3/5 of a human to having this conversation with you now - IMO - is an extraordinary stretch. All of a sudden, black folks execute an integrated attack on corporate interests that were involved in slavery - I could definitely see corporate America pressuring the government to get African America off their back if a reparation award would relieve the pressure. Maybe giving us some land somewhere is an ideal solution for white America?

I also think this is a plausible way to generate meaningful inertia behind reparations.
quote:
Originally posted by Yemaya:

What does Israel have to do with Black Nationalism? I would just like to say please, leave Israel out of the discussion about our people. We need to focus instead of getting so easily distracted with the Israel issue. That is often used to keep us from focusing on issues with us.


In its most basic form: Black Nationalism = Zionism - a strategy, a campaign, a movement to acquire a homeland.

Israel is an artificial, political land mass that was created to give a disposessed group of people a homeland. There's a lot that African America could learn from the successes and mistakes of Zionism IMO.
quote:
don't know. Going from being considered a wild animal, a piece of chattel property, 3/5 of a human to having this conversation with you now - IMO - is an extraordinary stretch.

I don't think whites have changed their attitudes inasmuch as they have refined the system of white supremacy.
quote:
All of a sudden, black folks execute an integrated attack on corporate interests that were invloved in slavery - I could definitely see corporate America pressuring the government to get African America off their back if a reparation award would relieve the pressure

White folks will draw the line in the sand on this one, MBM. This is much bigger than a bus boycott to them.
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:

quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
Israel is an artificial, political land mass that was created to give a disposessed group of people a homeland. There's a lot that African America could learn from the successes and mistakes of Zionism IMO.



That this is not the road to follow... IMHO Smile


So - I guess Antartica it is? sck
quote:
Originally posted by Shango67:
quote:
don't know. Going from being considered a wild animal, a piece of chattel property, 3/5 of a human to having this conversation with you now - IMO - is an extraordinary stretch.

I don't think whites have changed their attitudes inasmuch as they have refined the system of white supremacy.
quote:
All of a sudden, black folks execute an integrated attack on corporate interests that were invloved in slavery - I could definitely see corporate America pressuring the government to get African America off their back if a reparation award would relieve the pressure

White folks will draw the line in the sand on this one, MBM. This is much bigger than a bus boycott to them.


I totally agree...
quote:
Originally posted by Shango67:

I don't think whites have changed their attitudes inasmuch as they have refined the system of white supremacy.


Oh, of course I agree, but that "refining" is all about responding to pressure. They realize that the clock is ticking on their game and they are scrambling to stay on top by hook or by crook. I don't think that we can argue that our "power" is greater today than in 1800 though. Heck, we got a sista as secretary of state and a brotha on the supreme court! dance
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
quote:
Originally posted by Shango67:

I don't think whites have changed their attitudes inasmuch as they have refined the system of white supremacy.


Oh, of course I agree, but that "refining" is all about responding to pressure. They realize that the clock is ticking on their game and they are scrambling to stay on top by hook or by crook. I don't think that we can argue that our "power" is greater today than in 1800 though. Heck, we got a sista as secretary of state and a brotha on the supreme court!


This proves the point... they've given this power to negroes they know they can trust to do exactly what they want...
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
quote:
Originally posted by Shango67:

I don't think whites have changed their attitudes inasmuch as they have refined the system of white supremacy.


Oh, of course I agree, but that "refining" is all about responding to pressure. They realize that the clock is ticking on their game and they are scrambling to stay on top by hook or by crook. I don't think that we can argue that our "power" is greater today than in 1800 though. Heck, we got a sista as secretary of state and a brotha on the supreme court! dance

Surely you jest about the maid in the white house and the ball boy on the court.

And the power we have is RELATIVE and SUBJECTIVE.

White folks are more "powerful" today than they were in the 1800's. And our "power" whatver that looks like, is based upon the amount they give. Why? Because we have done NOTHING to wrestle power away from white folks on amerikkkan shores.
They control the systems of information... anyone who is not in line with their thinking is 'fringe'... and will not gain significant access to the corridors of power... They've given the appearance of democratic legitimacy to virtual one party corporate rule...

Even WalMart can afford to keep the "Communist Manifesto" in stock...now that their largest source of cheap labor is Red China...
quote:
Originally posted by Shango67:

Surely you jest about the maid in the white house and the ball boy on the court.

And the power we have is RELATIVE and SUBJECTIVE.

White folks are more "powerful" today than they were in the 1800's. And our "power" whatver that looks like, is based upon the amount they give. Why? Because we have done NOTHING to wrestle power away from white folks on amerikkkan shores.


Thank you, I was about to ask him if he was kidding, cause surely he could not be serious.
quote:
Originally posted by tmonster:
quote:
Originally posted by Shango67:

Surely you jest about the maid in the white house and the ball boy on the court.

And the power we have is RELATIVE and SUBJECTIVE.

White folks are more "powerful" today than they were in the 1800's. And our "power" whatver that looks like, is based upon the amount they give. Why? Because we have done NOTHING to wrestle power away from white folks on amerikkkan shores.


Thank you, I was about to ask him if he was kidding, cause surely he could not be serious.


Folks - the dance symbol was meant to indicate the 'tounge in cheek' nature of that comment. bsm
quote:
Originally posted by tmonster:
quote:
Originally posted by Shango67:

Haiti is in the condition it is primarily due to the weakness of Africans throughout the Diaspora and its lack of connection to Africa.

Black folks, everywhere, are the only people without a foreign or domestic policy.


Clarity

I am sorry...do you need clarity on Haiti or our lack of foreign policy - or both?
quote:
Originally posted by Shango67:
quote:
Originally posted by tmonster:
quote:
Originally posted by Shango67:

Haiti is in the condition it is primarily due to the weakness of Africans throughout the Diaspora and its lack of connection to Africa.

Black folks, everywhere, are the only people without a foreign or domestic policy.


Clarity

I am sorry...do you need clarity on Haiti or our lack of foreign policy - or both?


Neither, I was trying to say that your reply is filled with clarity
African American-Americans, notably David Walker and Mariah Stewart n the 1830's, and Martin B. Delaney in the 1860s, and Thomas Morris Chester in the 1880s seemed to drive the move to separatism in the 19th century. I'm sure there were others.

Immigrants, and descendants of immigrants, transient and otherwise, are the notable players in the movement in the 20th century, e.g. Marcus Garvey, Elijah Muhammed, Stokely Carmichael, Malcolm (X) Little, Louis Farahkan, and most vocal supporters.

I'm sure there are African American-Americans supporting separatiam as well.

The preferred choice of these folks is nationalism.

I think such a choice is the right choice over the igonmious selection of color as identity.

Some interpret the choice as, simply, an act against African American-Americans. I believe much more is involved.

I am against separatism.

I am for reestablishment of our ancestral nationality with the reality of African America, a real place with real people, us.

We are the descendants of those held in chattel slavery and Jim Crow Law in the American Colonies, and the United States of America from circa 1509.

Americans who are African American.

I am for African American nationalism.

All people of African ancestry, wholly or in part, known and unknown as welcome.

PEACE

Jim Chester
I believe the consciousness of Black nationalism is growing maturing and manifesting itself in a variety of ways. I see more and more organizations forming with its members representing the complete African Diaspora. I see more and more people connecting the global problem of white supremacy to the local conditions of the African Diaspora. I see more and more brothers and sistas marrying across intercultural boundaries. The movement may have become stagnated in the aspect of fist pumping slogan Nationalism. But the complex work of weaving the experiences of the various areas of the African Diaspora is growing.
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:

quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
Israel is an artificial, political land mass that was created to give a disposessed group of people a homeland. There's a lot that African America could learn from the successes and mistakes of Zionism IMO.



That this is not the road to follow... IMHO Smile


So - I guess Antartica it is? sck



I don't think it premature to begin considering ocean front property in Alaska and Canada....
Last edited {1}

Add Reply

Post
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×