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quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:


I must say ... and I hate to say it ... this brotha is making some sense in this post.

Sounds a lot like my late teens and early 20s.

I can tell you from being there that the few brothas who get into these elite schools tend to be precisely the types that get hated on in high school.

Dating non-blacks in this situation does not reflect a color preference so much as it does a gut level reaction to earlier years of rejection. For a good bit of time I dated white women all the while being more attracted to black women. It took awhile for me to get over my teenage experience.



HB.....this also could be said about sistas that were teased and hated on in high school, etc.

I attended an all white college, and the majority of black guys that dated white girls, were not teased.........because they were popular. These same black men are now running through white women, like locust.


I'll say this.....

It seems as though, white women know how to treat black men..............and the same goes for white men that date black women.


This is an indication, that both black men/women have serious issues, when interacting with each other.

BOTH need to take responsibility for this..........because everything else, is B.S.
Regardless of the fact that black men and women have a lot of issues with getting along many black women fail to acknowledge or admit how one-sided the issue of interracial relationships is treated. When it's a situation of a black female with a non-black male it's always because a sister has no other choice but to seek out a white man because good black men are hard to find.

However, when the issue of black males with non-black females arises, then it's always the case that a black man is only chasing after a non-white female because he's a dog, induced with self-hatred, afraid of a "strong" black woman, looking for a trophy wife, selling out and every other kind of negative label you can brand a brother with.

When a black woman seeks out a non-black man she's doing so because she's looking for the love, financial stability, and respect she can't get from a black man. But when a black man seeks out a non-black woman he's only looking for some ass - he's color struck, and climbing the social ladder.

Meanwhile, you have these bitter, jaded man-hating sisters on the side who are too afraid to get in where they could fit in or too stubborn to admit they don't have the necessary social skills to seek out a suitable mate or how to keep a suitable mate if they happen to come across one that use the interracial dating and marriage card to justify not taking and assessment of themselves and, thereby, improving on their inept social skills.

Now don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to place the responsibility or the blame on black women for the matrimonial success of the black race. But you have to admit that a lot of brothers only behave in a way that attracts the most attention from the sisters. Therefore, in a sense, it is the sisters that set the tone for what is acceptable and unacceptable behavior for prospective mates.

Nobody cared when Michael Jordan shaved his head until a pole was taken that revealed that black women felt Jordan's shaved head was sexy, then you have brothers all over the country getting a shine head whether their hairline was receding or not. Let a pole be taken that suggests that sisters think pants hanging below the ass is gay and watch how the pants will slowly rise. Let a pole be taken that reveals acting like a thug is a turnoff and watch how fast the preppy look will come back into style.
quote:
Originally posted by qty226:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:


I must say ... and I hate to say it ... this brotha is making some sense in this post.

Sounds a lot like my late teens and early 20s.

I can tell you from being there that the few brothas who get into these elite schools tend to be precisely the types that get hated on in high school.

Dating non-blacks in this situation does not reflect a color preference so much as it does a gut level reaction to earlier years of rejection. For a good bit of time I dated white women all the while being more attracted to black women. It took awhile for me to get over my teenage experience.



HB.....this also could be said about sistas that were teased and hated on in high school, etc.

I attended an all white college, and the majority of black guys that dated white girls, were not teased.........because they were popular. These same black men are now running through white women, like locust.


I'll say this.....

It seems as though, white women know how to treat black men..............and the same goes for white men that date black women.


This is an indication, that both black men/women have serious issues, when interacting with each other.

BOTH need to take responsibility for this..........because everything else, is B.S.



appl bow


By the way, I was not trying to defend all brothas dating non-black. I was just saying that in some of these cases - including mine - it was not about a color preference. It was more about working through my own issues.
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by qty226:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:


I must say ... and I hate to say it ... this brotha is making some sense in this post.

Sounds a lot like my late teens and early 20s.

I can tell you from being there that the few brothas who get into these elite schools tend to be precisely the types that get hated on in high school.

Dating non-blacks in this situation does not reflect a color preference so much as it does a gut level reaction to earlier years of rejection. For a good bit of time I dated white women all the while being more attracted to black women. It took awhile for me to get over my teenage experience.



HB.....this also could be said about sistas that were teased and hated on in high school, etc.

I attended an all white college, and the majority of black guys that dated white girls, were not teased.........because they were popular. These same black men are now running through white women, like locust.


I'll say this.....

It seems as though, white women know how to treat black men..............and the same goes for white men that date black women.


This is an indication, that both black men/women have serious issues, when interacting with each other.

BOTH need to take responsibility for this..........because everything else, is B.S.



appl bow


By the way, I was not trying to defend all brothas dating non-black. I was just saying that in some of these cases - including mine - it was not about a color preference. It was more about working through my own issues.


But can a brotha work out his issues while chasing down a hot mamacita? cabbage



....I'm just sayin'....... Razz
quote:
Originally posted by qty226:

It seems as though, white women know how to treat black men..............and the same goes for white men that date black women.

This is an indication, that both black men/women have serious issues, when interacting with each other.

BOTH need to take responsibility for this..........because everything else, is B.S.


You know what I think it is?

Brothers and sisters don't have enough compassion for each other. But I think we both want the same things. I.e., acceptance and some level of validation. But we want it from each other. And sometimes too badly. That can be a bad mix. In particular, it's not conducive to mutual compassion.

It's not that white women "know how to treat" a black man. It's that because of their position in society they don't tend to bring the same wounds and insecurities into a relationship. At least not with the same intensity.

I've known white women married to black men who put up with A LOT. But I've found that in some cases, they're in a better position to play nursemaid and see the woundedness of their mate with open eyes and still love them nevertheless. And that's because they don't bring the same wounds into the relationship. In a few cases, I've seen such couples that have grown together well over time.

In every relationship, there is that time - after the honeymoon - when we stand exposed and reality sets in. We start making demands. We start really seeing the flaws in the other person. Our insecurities take hold.

I've found that with brothas and sistas that period can be particularly intense. And the honeymoon is shorter. I've come to expect it and be prepared to negotiate it. You really need to be mature for that.

Anyway, I must say that in my early relationships, I f*cked up a lot. Not by being a "dog" or anything like that. But by really not knowing how to be in a relationship - that whole intimacy thing. Knowing how to open up. Being vulnerable. That sorta stuff.

I learned all of this stuff from white women (who put up with a LOT by the way). I'm not saying I could not have learned it from a sister. It's just harder to do when you have two people together who both have intimacy problems.

But one way to look at it is: Hey! ... I worked out the kinks on white chicks ... Smile

But then that's me. It's all JMHO.
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quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:

Nobody cared when Michael Jordan shaved his head until a pole was taken that revealed that black women felt Jordan's shaved head was sexy, then you have brothers all over the country getting a shine head whether their hairline was receding or not.


So when is a bald head on white guys going to be considered as sexy?

I hope that it happens fast...

bang
quote:
Originally posted by ricardomath:
quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:

Nobody cared when Michael Jordan shaved his head until a pole was taken that revealed that black women felt Jordan's shaved head was sexy, then you have brothers all over the country getting a shine head whether their hairline was receding or not.


So when is a bald head on white guys going to be considered as sexy?

I hope that it happens fast...

bang


The white guys, at least the pale-skinned ones, are going to have to get a tan to look good with a bald head. Otherwise, a white dude's head will look like a plucked chicken's ass in my opinion. White dudes have the problem of their hair folicles being seen too easily at the surface of their skin - a problem the brothers don't have. However, I have seen one or two white dudes that could rock a bald head and get away with it.



"Who loves ya, baby!"
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:

I learned all of this stuff from white women (who put up with a LOT by the way). I'm not saying I could not have learned it from a sister. It's just harder to do when you have two people together who both have intimacy problems.


I'm glad you're not saying that. There are indeed, loving, nurturing, balanced sistas who work, raise children, and contribute to their communities all the time. White women do not have a monopoly on love. Smile
quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:
There were and still are brothers like me that went through public schools wearing decent clothes and shoes - not the name brands but decent nonetheless. These brothers were intelligent, schoolastic and didn't give in to peer pressure in order to be accepted. They were subjected to that same code of blackness many of these foolish sisters subscribed to.

Now take a step back and think for a second; Do you think a brother that has endured ridicule from his black peers to whatever degree for a prolonged amount of time in public school going to want to endure the same bullshit when they go to college? Hell no!! Many of these brothers come on these campuses and peep the same ignorant ass high school mentality seeping from the pores of these sisters and don't want to put up with the bullshit.

Any brother with balls and a little ambition isn't going to subject himself to celibacy because some childish ass sisters aren't acting right. I know I put my hand in the cookie jar or in this case the melting pot and got my fair share of romantic interaction while matriculating at my alma mater. But here's the killin' part: If the sisters on my campus had had some fucking sense instead of having some kind of afro-marshall law I would have never been encouraged to jump the fence so to speak.

You talk to many of these brothers and I bet you my life they won't sit there and tell you some shallow story about liking non-black girls just because. I'm willing to bet many of them will tell you a long and heart-felt story as to the choices they make in the race of females they pursue. And in many cases sisters are ready to ostricize a brother just for associating with non-blacks let alone actually dating a female of another race.


IMO, unless you get past this like HB has, it shows you are weak of character. I could give you some STORIES FROM HELL, like how because I was smart in school and wasn't easy, or willing to(or able to) pay for a brother's clothes, shoes ect. to buy affection like the white girls did, the brothers wouldn't give me the time of day in high school or community college. That EVERY brother in high school WOULD NOT DATE THE BLACK GIRLS because, we couldn't or wouldn't 'support' them financially, aka buy them the latest pair of Jordans. I could tell you about how I had a crush on a boy, not knowing he was like this, and his friend actually told him, in front of me, "Why you dealing with her when you could have a white girl?"... Yes the brother actually said that! ANd the brother I like walked away.(Now that I'm older, good riddens of course) And there were many comments like this on a weekly basis. The white girls were nicer, the white girls were prettier, their hair wasn't nappy, ect. ect. I and ALL the sisters I grew up with were ALL rejected during our formative years. I didn't even have a date until I met a brother from outside of my home town(he was from Barbados) who didn't have the same hang ups. Strangely enough, NOT ONE OF THE SISTERS I GREW UP WITH dates people that are not of African descent... Not one! By your logic, we should all be repulsed by brothers. We aren't immature enough to think every brother out there was like the ones we had very negative experiences with in our youth. I NEVER BLAME ALL BLACK MEN FOR THE A-HOLES I DEALT WITH FOR MOST OF MY YOUNGER LIFE. It's just not fair, and not logical. My and our sense of community and WHAT'S IMPORTANT was much stronger than that.

quote:
I bet you my life you can go on any college campus in this country - you won't find a single damn brother ostricizing and criticizing a sister for dating out of her race.


bs I've seen brothers who date white girls themselves, criticize a sister for doing it. I've seen it in college and as a matter of fact I saw/heard it last week. I of course got my clown on...

I'm not accusing you of dating on a colourist/phenotypical level, but I remember Khaliqua breaking down how the 'individualist' attitude is not a good one. Family is the basis of community, and if you are community minded, meaning you want our people to collectively destroy the oppression and exploitation that we as a people suffer(beyond all other non-whites) under global white patriarchal supremacy, I don't see how dating 'others' let alone Europeans is a step in the collective right direction. There are just too many beautiful(inside and out) African people to choose from, the pickins aren't that slim to hold grudges.
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:

IMO, unless you get past this like HB has, it shows you are weak of character.

Unlike other people I don't believe in harboring baggage - it clogs my shakras, so this is a non-issue, just mearly braught up for the purpose of the thread, so you're shooting blanks with the armchair psychologist observation.

I could give you some STORIES FROM HELL, like how because I was smart in school and wasn't easy, or willing to(or able to) pay for a brother's clothes, shoes ect. to buy affection like the white girls did, the brothers wouldn't give me the time of day in high school or community college. That EVERY brother in high school WOULD NOT DATE THE BLACK GIRLS because, we couldn't or wouldn't 'support' them financially, aka buy them the latest pair of Jordans. I could tell you about how I had a crush on a boy, not knowing he was like this, and his friend actually told him, in front of me, "Why you dealing with her when you could have a white girl?"... Yes the brother actually said that! ANd the brother I like walked away.(Now that I'm older, good riddens of course) And there were many comments like this on a weekly basis. The white girls were nicer, the white girls were prettier, their hair wasn't nappy, ect. ect. I and ALL the sisters I grew up with were ALL rejected during our formative years. I didn't even have a date until I met a brother from outside of my home town(he was from Barbados) who didn't have the same hang ups. Strangely enough, NOT ONE OF THE SISTERS I GREW UP WITH dates people that are not of African descent... Not one! By your logic, we should all be repulsed by brothers. We aren't immature enough to think every brother out there was like the ones we had very negative experiences with in our youth. I NEVER BLAME ALL BLACK MEN FOR THE A-HOLES I DEALT WITH FOR MOST OF MY YOUNGER LIFE. It's just not fair, and not logical. My and our sense of community and WHAT'S IMPORTANT was much stronger than that.

This is wonderful and and constructive and all that you're sharing your past issues with us especially considering you tried to accuse me of holding a grudge for what I experienced in my past when it seems from your use of ALL CAPITAL LETTERS you seem to be holding a grudge yourself. However, your commentary on how bad it was for the sisters in your day does not apply primarily because, as I've stated before, sisters have had their day in the sun and more than their share of representation in all forms of media as to their plight with black men and life in general - the pendulum must swing in the opposite direction.


quote:
I bet you my life you can go on any college campus in this country - you won't find a single damn brother ostricizing and criticizing a sister for dating out of her race.


bs I've seen brothers who date white girls themselves, criticize a sister for doing it. I've seen it in college and as a matter of fact I saw/heard it last week. I of course got my clown on...

I do believe I stated earlier in the thread that I wasn't talking about the few knuckle head fools that chase after white girls for superficial reasons, so your point is moot.

I'm not accusing you of dating on a colourist/phenotypical level, but I remember Khaliqua breaking down how the 'individualist' attitude is not a good one. Family is the basis of community, and if you are community minded, meaning you want our people to collectively destroy the oppression and exploitation that we as a people suffer(beyond all other non-whites) under global white patriarchal supremacy, I don't see how dating 'others' let alone Europeans is a step in the collective right direction. There are just too many beautiful(inside and out) African people to choose from, the pickins aren't that slim to hold grudges.

Of course you are entitled to your opinions, particularly, in the effort of expressing what you feel is in the best interests of the black race to prosper. However, not everyone, including myself, may share in your particular avenue of posperity. I am a pluralist, an inclusionary-minded person. Therefore, I believe it will take the efforts of all races and nationalities of people to uplift and empower themselves and each other. We as blacks just have to do our part. Many of the most prominent blacks in American history were interracial - are we to exclude their contributions to the betterment of North America because they're not black? Are we to exclude the interracial people of tomorrow? I think you simply need to rethink your position on this matter and get back to me at a time when you don't have such separatist views.
quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:
quote:
Originally posted by ricardomath:
quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:

Nobody cared when Michael Jordan shaved his head until a pole was taken that revealed that black women felt Jordan's shaved head was sexy, then you have brothers all over the country getting a shine head whether their hairline was receding or not.


So when is a bald head on white guys going to be considered as sexy?

I hope that it happens fast...

bang


The white guys, at least the pale-skinned ones, are going to have to get a tan to look good with a bald head. Otherwise, a white dude's head will look like a plucked chicken's ass in my opinion. White dudes have the problem of their hair folicles being seen too easily at the surface of their skin - a problem the brothers don't have. However, I have seen one or two white dudes that could rock a bald head and get away with it.



"Who loves ya, baby!"


Another thing, when some white guys shave their heads, people tend to mistake them for Nazi skinheads, so there's that obstacle to think about.
quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:
Unlike other people I don't believe in harboring baggage - it clogs my shakras, so this is a non-issue, just mearly braught up for the purpose of the thread, so you're shooting blanks with the armchair psychologist observation.


Lol about clogging your shakras... You have more than displayed a little imbalance IMO... but seriousely, I wasn't doing a psychological observation, I was stating my opinion about character. Reactionary dating practices based on past negative experienes, to the point where you aren't putting community first is an example of a weak character IMO. It demonstrates an individualist mindset.

quote:
This is wonderful and and constructive and all that you're sharing your past issues with us especially considering you tried to accuse me of holding a grudge for what I experienced in my past when it seems from your use of ALL CAPITAL LETTERS you seem to be holding a grudge yourself.


My past negative experience have not effected my dating practices to the point that I look outside of our oppressed and exploited people for dating/mating options. I will not allow myself to become individualistic to the point where I loose sight of the bigger picture, and the importance and primacy of our collective goals and objectives. Hence I was using my negative past experiences as an example that everyone goes through dating BS, but it is how you react to it that matters. ...But you knew that and just couldn't come up with a better comback... but you had to come back with somethin' Roll Eyes

quote:
However, your commentary on how bad it was for the sisters in your day does not apply primarily because, as I've stated before, sisters have had their day in the sun and more than their share of representation in all forms of media as to their plight with black men and life in general - the pendulum must swing in the opposite direction.


I don't know what your frame of referrence is, but I don't think any representations in the corporate owned media properly represents African/Black people or any internal issues/interests of our community for either gender. The corporate owned media has certain objectives, like making the masses consumers and the dumbing down of the masses politically(reguardless of race). It also promotes ultra individualism, and actually works to disunify African/Black people as well as all other oppressed and exploited people along racial, colour, gender, and class lines. Where you are getting this idea that 'Black women get their share of representation in all forms of media as to their plight with black men and life in general' is beyond me. Do you actually swallow the rubbish that the media tries to feed you? I don't. I hope you don't think all that exploitive BS in the media about our internal community problems is supposed to be 'constructive' and for our 'benefit'. It's a bunch of propoganda. Someone thinking they need to 'add to it' in some lame attempt at 'balance', is frightening to say the least... Yah, balance the enemy propoganda...that's logical... Roll Eyes

quote:
I do believe I stated earlier in the thread that I wasn't talking about the few knuckle head fools that chase after white girls for superficial reasons, so your point is moot.


I do believe that you are minimizing 'the nuckle head fools who chase after white women for superficial reasons' by using the description that they are only a 'few'. Like I stated earlier in this thread... The vast majority of brothers(and sisters) who date outside of their race do it for f-ed up superficial reasons, the brothers who PRIMARILY date African sisters, but sometimes date 'others' are in the minority... and I don't just 'believe' that... That's the way it IS.

quote:
Of course you are entitled to your opinions, particularly, in the effort of expressing what you feel is in the best interests of the black race to prosper. However, not everyone, including myself, may share in your particular avenue of posperity. I am a pluralist, an inclusionary-minded person. Therefore, I believe it will take the efforts of all races and nationalities of people to uplift and empower themselves and each other. We as blacks just have to do our part.


It will take the effort of all of humanity to lift up humanity as a whole. But for any community to join with others to form a collective, they must first take care of home. How are you gonna go link up with your neighbor who's family is well taken care of, when your mamma is sitting at home starving? My house has to be in order before my neighborhood can be addressed. All organization goes from the micro to the macro. From the smaller unit to the larger; it's scientific. To have a strong family, you must have strong individuals. To have a strong community, you must have a strong family. To have a strong nation, you must have a strong community. To have a strong world, you must have a strong nation. If any link in this structure is weak, the whole structure collapses or becomes highly imbalanced. I'm all for comming together to work with other oppressed and exploited communitees when we have/share commen interests... I do it all the time. But I'm not going to make a weak foundation(the family) in my own community, off of the false pretense that dating 'others' is some constructive, politically motivated, Kumbaya BS for a better world.

quote:
Many of the most prominent blacks in American history were interracial - are we to exclude their contributions to the betterment of North America because they're not black? Are we to exclude the interracial people of tomorrow? I think you simply need to rethink your position on this matter and get back to me at a time when you don't have such separatist views.


Lol, Now you are grasping at straws and bringing up completely off topic, irrelavant ish that nobody even alluded to. I guess you are well aware of how weak your own argument is. I'm of mixed ancestry. Anyone of African ancestry get's oppressed and exploited because of it(to varying degrees). If you noticed, I always say 'African'... There is no 'Black land'. You just don't understand my political perspective, and you don't have a propper defense for yours... You might want to rethink the BS you type sometimes before you click on 'post now'.
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quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
I don't think any representations in the corporate owned media properly represents African/Black people or any internal issues/interests of our community for either gender. The corporate owned media has certain objectives, like making the masses consumers and the dumbing down the masses(reguardless of race) politically. It also promotes ultra individualism, and actually works to disunify African/Black people as well as all other oppressed and exploited people along race, gender, and class lines. Where you are getting this idea that 'Black women get their share of representation in all forms of media as to their plight with black men and life in general' is beyond me. Do you actually swallow the rubbish that the media tries to feed you? I don't. I hope you don't think all that BS in the media about our internal community problems is supposed to be 'constructive' and for our 'benefit'. It's a bunch of propoganda. Someone thinking they need to 'add to it' in some lame attempt at 'balance' is frightening to say the least... Yah, balance the enemy propoganda...that's logical... Roll Eyes


yeah

quote:
I do believe that you are minimizing 'the nuckle head fools who chase after white women for superficial reasons' by using the description that they are only a 'few'. Like I stated earlier in this thread... The vast majority of brothers who date outside of their race do it for f-ed up superficial reasons, the brothers who PRIMARILY date African sisters, but sometimes date 'others' are in the minority... and I don't 'believe' that. That's the way it IS.


yeah

quote:

It will take the effort of all of humanity to lift up humanity as a whole. But for any community to join with others they must first take care of home. How are you gonna go link up with your neighbor who's family is well taken care of, when your mamma is sitting at home starving? My house has to be in order before my neighborhood can be addressed. All organization goes from the micro to the macro. Frtom the smaller unit to the larger. It's scientific. To have a strong family, you must be a strong individual. To have a strong community, you must have a strong family. To have a strong nation, you must have a strong community. To have a strong World, you must have a strong nation. If any link in this structure is weak, the whole structure collapses. I'm all for comming together to work with other oppressed and exploited communitees when we have commen interests... I do it all the time. But I'm not going to make a weak foundation(the family) in my own community, off of the false pretense that dating 'others' is some constructive, politically motivated, Kumbaya BS for a better world.


good lord....

on a roll sister...
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:

quote:
However, your commentary on how bad it was for the sisters in your day does not apply primarily because, as I've stated before, sisters have had their day in the sun and more than their share of representation in all forms of media as to their plight with black men and life in general - the pendulum must swing in the opposite direction.


I don't know what your frame of referrence is, but I don't think any representations in the corporate owned media properly represents African/Black people or any internal issues/interests of our community for either gender. The corporate owned media has certain objectives, like making the masses consumers and the dumbing down the masses(reguardless of race) politically. It also promotes ultra individualism, and actually works to disunify African/Black people as well as all other oppressed and exploited people along race, gender, and class lines. Where you are getting this idea that 'Black women get their share of representation in all forms of media as to their plight with black men and life in general' is beyond me. Do you actually swallow the rubbish that the media tries to feed you? I don't. I hope you don't think all that BS in the media about our internal community problems is supposed to be 'constructive' and for our 'benefit'. It's a bunch of propoganda. Someone thinking they need to 'add to it' in some lame attempt at 'balance' is frightening to say the least... Yah, balance the enemy propaganda...that's logical...




DAYUM! ... 19 ... that was profound ....
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I just want one of you sisters to admit that the ridicule that those women put those men through, using the wall of shame, was WRONG. It had nothing to do with unity, and less than nothing to do with humanity. More than anything, it was about 'sticking it to' the black man. Catch me in the wrong mood, I'll go spite for spite and post a wall of fame, which would list the girls that those guys were in a relationship with. Shucks, I'd probably even suggest taking 'loving' pictures, or pictures with the black men grinning from ear to ear.
I'm all for the sisters, but if they came at me like that... hmmm... It's kinda hard to see, hear, or feel the love, when someone has a hostile approach. We need to understand that some of the things we say and do are very provocative.

In short,

"Sister, I am shocked, that you are shocked at my response." "Are you kidding me?" Confused
In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful



As Salaam Alaikum to all!

The following quote is from Sister Oshun Auset:

quote:
It will take the effort of all of humanity to lift up humanity as a whole. But for any community to join with others to form a collective, they must first take care of home. How are you gonna go link up with your neighbor who's family is well taken care of, when your mamma is sitting at home starving? My house has to be in order before my neighborhood can be addressed. All organization goes from the micro to the macro. From the smaller unit to the larger; it's scientific. To have a strong family, you must have strong individuals. To have a strong community, you must have a strong family. To have a strong nation, you must have a strong community. To have a strong world, you must have a strong nation. If any link in this structure is weak, the whole structure collapses or becomes highly imbalanced. I'm all for comming together to work with other oppressed and exploited communitees when we have/share commen interests... I do it all the time. But I'm not going to make a weak foundation(the family) in my own community, off of the false pretense that dating 'others' is some constructive, politically motivated, Kumbaya BS for a better world.



DOWN GOES ROMULUS FRAZIER!!!

Sister Oshun Auset, will you PLEASE stop whipping that traitorous, white woman-loving boy like he's a red-headed step-child? Tsk, tsk, tsk....what a pity.....

Okay, okay, I'll stop laughing at you Brother Romulus. (snicker....oops, sorry) I promise that I'll try to keep my giggling to myself; though after seeing you vomit all of your hatred towards our wonderful Black Goddesses and then, cough-up pro-white woman love garbage like a rabid dog in heat, it is funny as hell to see you get intellectually "whupped" like that by an enlightened Black Goddess. That's a crying shame Brother. You're really making Black men look stupid. And, folks, I didn't misspell the word "whipped." But when a person takes a whipping as badly as that administered by Sister Oshun on Brother Romulus, one has to give it a little southern"twang" and use the expression "whupped." Brother Romulus, please do not even attempt to challenge Sister Oshun's classic work of art for you'll just make yourself look even more retarded and "chakra-clogged" than you already are. If you're intelligent, you'd have to reply with something like: "thank you Sister Oshun for doing such a great job in correcting my profound ignorance and white woman-loving stupidity.

Romulus, while you're hurling hatred at Black women and making yourself look like an absolute jack ass, here's something to think about. Now, under the evil, family-destroying system of white supremacy, of course our families are not going to be as perfect as they should be. Dear foolish Brother, we've not only gone through a historical "holocaust" but our people have had to pay a "hell-of-a-cost" simply because we are Black. This is why it is wrong and silly to go on these white-inspired, divide-and-conquer, gender wars, for we are all trying to heal from this historically hellish experience of white devilism. The last time I checked, both the Black man and the Black woman were tortured, terrorized and lynched during slavery. The white devil slave-masters did not discriminate in that respect. To this very day, the white enemy bombards us with socio-economic warfare 24 hours a day, 365 days per year. The casualties of this socio-economic war manifest in the form of desperate families who live in the streets, our people who populate the prison system, the countless single-parent families in our communities, the unending chaos of violence that recur in our neighborhoods, etc. So Brother Romulus, while you spew your anti-Black woman rhetoric, remember these things the next time you see the Black "casualties" of the white man's socio-economic war.

In fact, our Black families suffered terribly during the aftermath of the New Orleans, Louisiana Hurricane Katrina, thanks to the devilish efforts of the white government. And, guess what Brother Romulus, they did not discriminate between our genders. The overwhelming majority of the victims were both Black men and women. So Brother Romulus, you're dumb-as-hell to be spreading this white-inspired propaganda against our women.

To see a Black man cough-up all kinds of imaginary, cartoonish excuses to justify running away from our Divinely beautiful Black Goddesses and into the hairy, dog-smelling, arms of the nasty white man's daughter, is an absolute shame and proves your kind to be a traitor to our Black mothers and to the Black nation. Romulus, you can't have the kind of hateful attitude that you have towards Black women without also hating your own mother and grand-mother. Think about what you're doing fool. What you are saying is that you HATE your own mother.

Ultimately, what this also proves is that those of us who run from Black people are in reality, running from their primary responsibility and obligation to their people and ancestors. Let's think about that for a moment folks. If you've come from the Divine seed of the Black God and the Divine womb of the Black Goddess, not only are you compelled to honor your parents at all times, but you must also honor the very people from whom you and your family sprang – the Black Nation – because "you are because WE are." This is why the "individualistic" ideals that many of us have acquired from the white establishment, is in reality a BIG LIE. Since your very life is the result of your ancestors and of the Supreme Creator of the universe, it is impossible to have a separate, individualistic, "me versus you," kind of white fantasy existence. If on the other hand, you are self-created and designed yourself independent of the Black woman's womb and seed of man, and if you are free of the atoms which are a part of the planet earth, ONLY THEN, can you claim to be a separate "individual." Thus far, we've never met anyone who fits that criteria so Mr. Romulus Burnett, your cartoonish individualistic ideals are a huge joke. Are you self-created? Is your body comprised of atoms that come from planet earth? Were you born from the womb of Black woman? Do you see how profoundly silly you are? Your rants make no sense boy; time to WAKE UP from your white-loving fantasy and come back to reality.

Since the Black Nation is our heaven on earth, it is our duty and obligation to maintain and support the nation. Running away from the Black nation and into a nation of people whom you are neither culturally nor biologically derived, makes you to be a contributor to the destruction of your Black Nation. It is sad to see how far we've fallen as a people in America as a result of this collective "sucking-up" and kissing the dog-smelling posterior of Mr. and Mrs. White man.

Brother Romulus, for the sake of your sanity, do yourself a huge favor and re-read Sister Oshun's post at least seventy-seven times before responding with your usual white-loving, Black woman-hating insanity. And remember dear white woman-loving brother, while you're kissing that nasty devil woman, you're also "slurping" the parasites that her nasty dog has given to her via "tonsil hockey" maneuvers as shown in the image below. Remember fool, Mr. and Mrs. White man loves dogs and animals more than people and that's why you see them frequently slurping dog tongue every day. And, if you desire to abandon the Black woman in favor of nasty, dog-licking, parasite-infested, white women, go ahead buddy and knock yourself out. The Black Nation of Divine Black people do not need traitors like you among us spreading your white-acquired filth and diseases.





Sister Oshun Auset, thank you for a magnificent post. It was an absolute joy to read your perspectives. Keep up the good work.

======================================



My friends, since all other religious, philosophical, political, academic, etc., systems have failed us, let's choose Messenger Muhammad's (PBUH) Divine system and return to our true reality as the Black Gods and Goddesses of the universe so that our success is ensured and so that we may forever lead the world with Supreme Wisdom, civilization, freedom, justice and equality. The ancient and eternal Divine system of Allah (God) belongs to the Black Gods and Goddesses; our system of the NEW Islam is here!

All praises are due to our Saviour Allah for the Supreme Wisdom and nation-building teachings of His Divine Messenger Elijah Muhammad (peace be upon him)!!!

As Salaam Alaikum to those of us who accept the reality of the Black man and woman as Allah (God).
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quote:
Originally posted by RadioRaheem:
quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:
Radioraheem,

I read that article on the sisters at Brown University when it first came out and I was enraged. The fuck is the deal with these damn sisters? I'm being completely serious. This bullshit of black females black balling brothers on the yard happens on the campuses of many universities North and South or pretty much anywhere where you have some bitter, confused, jaded, uninformed, indifferent, fools running around imposing their own narrow-minded beliefs of what is blackness on their immediate environment.

Fuck that.

The hell - if they love black men so much, then why the fuck, first of all, do they attack brothers - assassinate and slanderize them? At the same time you have some of these sisters that are quick to latch on and use this situation of branding and labeling brothers as unfit for whatever insane ass reason for social interaction so they can either chase non black men on the low or because they know they don't have the physical or psychological characteristics a brother is looking for in a mate.

I went through the same type of bullshit the females at Brown University put those young brothers through. The issue of some brothers simply not wanting to put up with the ghetto, fickle, closed-minded mentality some sisters can have (matriculating through a university doesn't absolve these creature from their disfunctional backgrounds)never arises. Somehow, all black females are perfect specimens. It's the brothers that are all confused, brainwashed, mislead and childish.

I've heard and read story after story of a young brother going through hell after having been involved with one of these types of sisters but they never seem to make the mainstream. You always hear all of these stories of how it's always some young brother that has killed or raped a sister on campus. It's topics like this that piss me off make me drop my usually scholarly demeanor and make me just tell it like it is straight forward.


I feel the same way. I feel that the administration should have handed out suspensions or forced the 'wall of shame' creators to give a public apology. It is the least they could do. The open forum on IR dating is a weak and guarded response by the admin. This is proven by the end of the article when one of the wall of shame inventors kept two names on the list even after that 'healing' meeting. I think a suspension from school for a few semester would have taught a stern lesson to those Black women.


To quote the legendary Richard Pryor: "Why should you be happy?"
quote:
Originally posted by Khem Allah:
Since the Black Nation is our heaven on earth, it is our duty and obligation to maintain and support the nation. Running away from the Black nation and into a nation of people whom you are neither culturally nor biologically derived, makes you to be a contributor to the destruction of your Black Nation.



yeah
To you, khem allah, and the rest of your racist, narrow-minded, separatist, fascist kind:

My philosophy is simple.
It is one of change and understanding.
It is one of strengthening our Ummah (worldwide Muslim community) and encouraging all Muslims in dialogue.
I believe we are free to ask the questions in our mind,
to seek answers rather than be afraid of the way we will be received by our fellow Muslims.

All Muslims should be able to seek knowledge freely, and not settle for the answer that that is just simply Allah's will.
It is not a heretical act to understand God,
but this is the way any inquiry into Islam is perceived.


I believe that Muslims need to stop segregating themselves based on ethnicity and nationality,
I believe the educated Muslim has a duty to help lift up the one that is struck by poverty and mislead through influence.


I strongly believe that if Muslims can organize on a global level against something like cartoons about Islam,
then so can we for the countless times someone is killed in the name of Islam -
for the beheadings of humanitarian relief workers,
for those innocent lives stolen in reprisals,
for the Muslim who is killed simply because he is Shiite or Sunni, Kurd or Arab...


It is not that there is no Muslim Ummah, or that we are not united...but that we show strength only when Islam is criticized.
Yet we remain silent when honor killings occur on a daily basis over the smallest act of independent thinking.
We remain silent when we see corruption in our own community.
We remain silent because we believe that is what is expected of us...but by whom?
We remain silent because we have not realized our potential, or what we can accomplish if we are united
How is it that we can take time off work and drive four hours for a protest against the words of a foreign leader,
but we do not raise our voice when the words in our own family betray God...
or when our actions betray humanity.


I do not believe that this is all we are -
only that this is what we have COME to be for so many reasons.
What we are to be remains to be seen.
Will we rise to be stars that illuminate the world
or will dim our light, one by one, each time we remain silent as the world around us descends deeper into darkness.

The choice is ours to make, but what choice will we make?
That answer lies only within you.




The National Association of American People.
http://www.muhammadspeaks.com/Whitewoman.html

and:

http://www.muhammadspeaks.com/NaeemMay13,1966.html

Invites Eastern Muslims to Learn from Muhammad
Reprinted from the May 13, 1966 of Muhammad Speaks Newspaper

By Abdul Basit Naeem

The "Eastern" Muslim world, as I have occasionally mentioned in some of my writings published in this newspaper, is by no means perfect or near perfect. Although it produced the greatest culture and civilization humanity has ever known-more than a millennium ago, at that!-and for centuries it led the world in enlightenment, moral betterment as well as trade and commerce, it succumbed to Europe's intrigue and superior weapons of war a couple of hundred years ago and steadily declined during the ensuing decades. Only since 1947, when the world's largest Muslim nation, PAKISTAN, was born, are there visible signs of a general Islamic regeneration in Asia and Africa.

DURING the past 19 years, more than 300 million Muslims in the two "Eastern" continents have thrown off the yoke of foreign (Belgian, British, Dutch, French, German, Italian and Portuguese) colonialism. Millions more (in Aden, French Somaliland, Spanish Guinea, Mozambique, etc.), however, remain in shackles of serfdom and subserviency to the mighty Western powers. In addition, many independent Muslim lands heavily depend on the former rulers or new-found "benefactors" (such as the U.S.A. and U.S.S.R.) for economic survival and growth.

Needless to say,there is much that remains to be done...The "Eastern" Muslim states may have attained political sovereignty but they do not have economic self-sufficiency and viability. As long as they continue to beg for or accept even a single morsel of food from the former colonial masters' table (bartering or purchasing one's needs from Western nations is a different matter), they shall not be able to advance in education, industry, social welfare and culture.

Yet-Allah be praised!-there is plenty of affluence in the "East" to take care of all or most of our pressing economic problems. We don't really have to take any "aid" from Washington, London, Bonn, Paris or Moscow.

IT IS A known fact that for each Muslim country

...TO BE CONTINUED.
quote:
It will take the effort of all of humanity to lift up humanity as a whole.

This is the only part of your soapbox mantra that isn't flawed in its logic and thereby acceptible.

But for any community to join with others to form a collective, they must first take care of home.

That's just it - too many black people don't know how to take care of home. Many of our communities are already weak - disconnected and without the involvement of whites or other races of people. In this globalized economy we live in we cannot afford not to reach out to other communities. The black community's only issue is to not allow destructive elements INTO the community. Forget taking care of home we as blacks must first learn how NOT to destroy our own homes.

How are you gonna go link up with your neighbor who's family is well taken care of, when your mamma is sitting at home starving? My house has to be in order before my neighborhood can be addressed. All organization goes from the micro to the macro. From the smaller unit to the larger; it's scientific. To have a strong family, you must have strong individuals. To have a strong community, you must have a strong family. To have a strong nation, you must have a strong community. To have a strong world, you must have a strong nation. If any link in this structure is weak, the whole structure collapses or becomes highly imbalanced. I'm all for comming together to work with other oppressed and exploited communitees when we have/share commen interests... I do it all the time. But I'm not going to make a weak foundation(the family) in my own community, off of the false pretense that dating 'others' is some constructive, politically motivated, Kumbaya BS for a better world.

Very theatrical. Unfortunately, your sermon only serves to entertain - distract from the real issue. Interracial relationships and marriages aren't destroying our communities - they aren't even holding our communities back. We're doing that all by ourselves. Excluding people from our community is not the answer. The answer is education. There are universities, community colleges and trade schools right under the noses of many black communities. Blacks need to learn how not to turn on EACH OTHER. The answer is learning how to be accountable and responsible for ourselves and each other instead of allowing outside influences to divide and corrupt the community.
quote:
I don't know what your frame of referrence is, but I don't think any representations in the corporate owned media properly represents African/Black people or any internal issues/interests of our community for either gender. The corporate owned media has certain objectives, like making the masses consumers and the dumbing down the masses(reguardless of race) politically. It also promotes ultra individualism, and actually works to disunify African/Black people as well as all other oppressed and exploited people along race, gender, and class lines. Where you are getting this idea that 'Black women get their share of representation in all forms of media as to their plight with black men and life in general' is beyond me. Do you actually swallow the rubbish that the media tries to feed you? I don't. I hope you don't think all that BS in the media about our internal community problems is supposed to be 'constructive' and for our 'benefit'. It's a bunch of propoganda. Someone thinking they need to 'add to it' in some lame attempt at 'balance' is frightening to say the least... Yah, balance the enemy propaganda...that's logical...

Once again, very theatrical but very off base. When I say black women have had their day in the sun through various forms of media I'm referring to contemporary movies, books, television talkshows, and magazines. There are plenty tell all books written by vindicated black women in the African American section of various bookstores. And of course we're all aware of black women like Oprah WInfrey, illyana vanzant, and Whoopi Goldberg to mention a few.

I'm also sure you're aware of movies like 'Something New', 'Jungle Fever', 'Waiting to Exhale', 'How Stella Got Her Groove Back', and so on and so forth, while movies like 'The Wood', 'The Brothers', and 'Best Man' only served to make black men look like stereotypical fools. It's time for brothers, the good brothers that were doing the right thing all along, to be heard.
quote:
Originally posted by HeruStar:
The nerve... lol

The tragedy of African-American relationships is comical. There is a tragic opportunism placed in the selection process of our African-American men. What's comical is that our only defense against this opportunism is to manufacture some sort of opposing stance against white women. White women have never been a demographic opposition. It could be argued that they may be a cultural opposition, but they are usually the ones who assimilate. So the black identity/culture isn't in any eminent danger as far as white women opposition is concerned.

What's tragic on the female side is how they have these passionate cries out to black men begging for attention, but yet lack the concern or effort, to bring about a basic solidarity. It's comical because any concern for 'abandonment' of a race is ostensible if there is no fundamental position on solidarity.

My advice to black women is once you get our attention, have something to say about solidarity. Without solidarity, what's our motivation? There is no sweeping desire to "abandon" black women. The real antagonist for black men is opportunism. Opportunism is in our nature, and in order to regulate that part of our nature we're going to need some type of motivation, other than rhetoric about neglecting our own kind.

Black men, white women: is it that serious?

Solidarity: it's that serious!

----------------------------------------

I think black women feel threatened because white women come equipped with solidarity. 19


To add onto Heru's post, can any female here admit that the incident at Brown U., by creating the list was wrong? This is no different than outing someone who's gay, for example. People don't put folks on a list out of love; they do it out of spite. And I'm sorry if it sounds jaded or bitter, but you can't build a family, a community, a NATION or any type of relationship out of spitefulness. Never has worked, never will work. If a black man made a similar list to humiliate a group of sisters, would you actually say to yourself, "Gee now that's love. That's straight from the heart right there?" I don't think so. He'd be either expelled or in prison.

quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:
quote:
I don't know what your frame of referrence is, but I don't think any representations in the corporate owned media properly represents African/Black people or any internal issues/interests of our community for either gender. The corporate owned media has certain objectives, like making the masses consumers and the dumbing down the masses(reguardless of race) politically. It also promotes ultra individualism, and actually works to disunify African/Black people as well as all other oppressed and exploited people along race, gender, and class lines. Where you are getting this idea that 'Black women get their share of representation in all forms of media as to their plight with black men and life in general' is beyond me. Do you actually swallow the rubbish that the media tries to feed you? I don't. I hope you don't think all that BS in the media about our internal community problems is supposed to be 'constructive' and for our 'benefit'. It's a bunch of propoganda. Someone thinking they need to 'add to it' in some lame attempt at 'balance' is frightening to say the least... Yah, balance the enemy propaganda...that's logical...


Once again, very theatrical but very off base. When I say black women have had their day in the sun through various forms of media I'm referring to contemporary movies, books, television talkshows, and magazines. There are plenty tell all books written by vindicated black women in the African American section of various bookstores. And of course we're all aware of black women like Oprah WInfrey, illyana vanzant, and Whoopi Goldberg to mention a few.

I'm also sure you're aware of movies like 'Something New', 'Jungle Fever', 'Waiting to Exhale', 'How Stella Got Her Groove Back', and so on and so forth, while movies like 'The Wood', 'The Brothers', and 'Best Man' only served to make black men look like stereotypical fools. It's time for brothers, the good brothers that were doing the right thing all along, to be heard.



I think OA's point here is much deeper than you've given her credit for.

WHO publishes the books? Even though they might be authored by black females?

WHO decides what gets published and what doesn't get published? WHO decides who gets published and who doesn't?

WHO decides on what movie scripts get made into films? Or what talk shows reach the air? Or what the topics of discussion will be?

WHO distributes them?

Black women?

Her point is that it makes little sense to hold black women generally responsible for media portrayals of black men - mass media in any form including all the above mentioned. Besides, how do they benefit on the whole from negative portrayals of black men?

And so it makes little sense to feel a need to "balance" the score on that account.

If that were the case, then you'd have to hold black men equally responsible.

Because Snoop Dog and a gazilion other male rappers make us look like damned fools too. Probably even moreso. And how about Russel Simmons or even Tyler Perry?

If we're going to have an in-house discussion on those terms (terms decided by others) then we're merely behaving like puppets on a string.

BUT I definitely agree that us good brothers aren't getting our message out - for whatever reasons. tfro
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quote:
Originally posted by Huey:
If a black man made a similar list to humiliate a group of sisters, would you actually say to yourself, "Gee now that's love.
[/b]



No I would not say "Gee now that's love".... I would say something akin to "It's about time black men decided to care about their people..."... I'd say something like" That's right, brother" I'd be happy he'd let the world know that his women are important enough to him to no longer politely hold his frustrations while he watches his women sweetheart with the enemy.... I'd think he went about it immaturely and hope he could come up with something better... but I'd also completely understand he'd reached the point of being fed up watching the beginning stages of his community die.. all in the name of "individual" tastes and proclivities...



Salaam....
quote:
Originally posted by Khalliqa:
quote:
Originally posted by Huey:
If a black man made a similar list to humiliate a group of sisters, would you actually say to yourself, "Gee now that's love.
[/b]



No I would not say "Gee now that's love".... I would say something akin to "It's about time black men decided to care about their people..."... I'd say something like" That's right, brother" I'd be happy he'd let the world know that his women are important enough to him to no longer politely hold his frustrations while he watches his women sweetheart with the enemy.... I'd think he went about it immaturely and hope he could come up with something better... but I'd also completely understand he'd reached the point of being fed up watching the beginning stages of his community die.. all in the name of "individual" tastes and proclivities...
Salaam....


That is the biggest load of: bs 18 nono bs nono spank bs

I have ever read on Africanamerica.org

As tirelessly and compulsively as you've persecuted black men in every thread you've set foot in and including the threads you've initiated, which always have the alterior motive of demonizing black men in general, on this discussion board you're out of your mind if you think anybody is going to accept that lame ass response you just dumped in this thread.
quote:
I think OA's point here is much deeper than you've given her credit for.

WHO publishes the books? Even though they might be authored by black females?

WHO decides what gets published and what doesn't get published? WHO decides who gets published and who doesn't?

WHO decides on what movie scripts get made into films? Or what talk shows reach the air? Or what the topics of discussion will be?

WHO distributes them?

Black women?

Her point is that it makes little sense to hold black women generally responsible for media portrayals of black men - mass media in any form including all the above mentioned. Besides, how do they benefit on the whole from negative portrayals of black men?

And so it makes little sense to feel a need to "balance" the score on that account.

If that were the case, then you'd have to hold black men equally responsible.

Because Snoop Dog and a gazilion other male rappers make us look like damned fools too. Probably even moreso. And how about Russel Simmons or even Tyler Perry?

If we're going to have an in-house discussion on those terms (terms decided by others) then we're merely behaving like puppets on a string.



You need to back up off of oushun ausset's little speech, honestbrother primarily because your head is buried so deep in what you think is validity that you miss the overall point of the discussion to begin with. Everybody knows who controls the media at corporate level. Everybody knows that white corporate America makes over 700 billion dollars a year off of its black consumers yet black consumers only control 5% of that wealth. But the fact that white corporate America controls what gets published and made the point is it's out there.

Whatever corporate America's plan is in approving of certain books, movies, t.v. talkshows, and magazines and even certain black personalities that get exposure than others isn't the point. The point is black women have had their voice heard through the personalities that wrote those books. Black women have had their voice heard from the personalities that wrote those screenplays. So, what about Tyler Perry? All of his plays and movies are centered around the plight of disadvantaged black women and their frustrations with black men. So, is Tyler Perry a victim of corporate America too? You can't sit there and blame corporate America for the selections they've made when the material they're selecting is still made by blacks. That's called unaccountable. There's a similar plight going on now: Corporate America's control over hip hop. Nobody wants to blame the hip hop artists for contributing to the degredation of our community. Everybody that thinks they're in the know wants to point their fingers at corporate America instead of holding the hip hop artists responsible for creating the garbage for them to produce and distribute. It's like sitting there and witnessing a murder. If you witness a murder but you don't report it you're just as guilty as the person that pulled the trigger - you're an accessory.

This isn't about evening the score it's about receiving fair and equitable acknowledgment. Other than that low budget hopeful 'Diary of a Tired Black Man' and perhaps Michael Baesden what have you seen out there that legitimately expresses the plight of black men? Nothing. If you do know of any please make me aware of this. You don't even have to look at the corporate world. Look right under your nose. Look all through this thread since the introduction of the Brown U wall of shame article. Have there been any sisters on Africanamerica.org that stepped up and acknowledged what those sisters at that University did as being wrong? Hell no. And I know with all these highly intellectual, outspoken, articulate black women on this discussion board they didn't just happen to miss the article and the responses to it. But more often than not they pick and choose what is in the best interests of maintaining that innocent victim/justifiable anger position. Yet when any introduction of the notion of fairness is presented, particularly, by a man on this discussion board his attempt to seek acknowledgement for his observation is either ignored or twisted around into how black women have been done wrong.


I just want one of you sisters to admit that the ridicule that those women put those men through, using the wall of shame, was WRONG. It had nothing to do with unity, and less than nothing to do with humanity. More than anything, it was about 'sticking it to' the black man.

Any takers?

Oh, I forgot. Please forgive me. If in any case if any black women are made to be wrong or admit to any wrongdoings they are automatically exonerated right?
quote:
Originally posted by Khalliqa:
quote:
Originally posted by Khem Allah:
Since the Black Nation is our heaven on earth, it is our duty and obligation to maintain and support the nation. Running away from the Black nation and into a nation of people whom you are neither culturally nor biologically derived, makes you to be a contributor to the destruction of your Black Nation.



yeah


You're promoting elitism and fascism - plain and simple. If it were the KKK or the skinheads and they had the same message they would be considered racist pigs. But because you hide under the banner of th NOI it's supposed to be something to be admired and respected? Please spare this audience your brainwashed, dogmatic bullshit.
quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:
quote:
Originally posted by Khalliqa:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Khem Allah:
Since the Black Nation is our heaven on earth, it is our duty and obligation to maintain and support the nation. Running away from the Black nation and into a nation of people whom you are neither culturally nor biologically derived, makes you to be a contributor to the destruction of your Black Nation.



yeah


You're promoting elitism and fascism - plain and simple. If it were the KKK or the skinheads and they had the same message they would be considered racist pigs. But because you hide under the banner of the NOI it's supposed to be something to be admired and respected? Please spare this audience your brainwashed, dogmatic bullshit.
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:

You know what I think it is?

Brothers and sisters don't have enough compassion for each other. But I think we both want the same things. I.e., acceptance and some level of validation. But we want it from each other. And sometimes too badly. That can be a bad mix. In particular, it's not conducive to mutual compassion.

It's not that white women "know how to treat" a black man. It's that because of their position in society they don't tend to bring the same wounds and insecurities into a relationship. At least not with the same intensity.

I've known white women married to black men who put up with A LOT. But I've found that in some cases, they're in a better position to play nursemaid and see the woundedness of their mate with open eyes and still love them nevertheless. And that's because they don't bring the same wounds into the relationship. In a few cases, I've seen such couples that have grown together well over time.

In every relationship, there is that time - after the honeymoon - when we stand exposed and reality sets in. We start making demands. We start really seeing the flaws in the other person. Our insecurities take hold.

I've found that with brothas and sistas that period can be particularly intense. And the honeymoon is shorter. I've come to expect it and be prepared to negotiate it. You really need to be mature for that.

Anyway, I must say that in my early relationships, I f*cked up a lot. Not by being a "dog" or anything like that. But by really not knowing how to be in a relationship - that whole intimacy thing. Knowing how to open up. Being vulnerable. That sorta stuff.

I learned all of this stuff from white women (who put up with a LOT by the way). I'm not saying I could not have learned it from a sister. It's just harder to do when you have two people together who both have intimacy problems.

But one way to look at it is: Hey! ... I worked out the kinks on white chicks ... Smile

But then that's me. It's all JMHO.



I agree...


Again, white women/men havent dealt the blows, society has rendered black women/men.

Therefore, it may seem that they are better partners. (but lets face it, they also have a ton of issues.......and we as black folk havent a clue, until we involve ourselves with them, and the truth comes out).

I think 'one' of our problems, is the fact......that we as a community has ripped apart our foundation. (Family)

We are no longer raising our children to be able to handle all the issues, that we face daily (racism, etc), and we are definitely not teaching them how to interact with the opposite sex. A lot of our children, have never seen black people, in long term thriving relationships.

Therefore, these children grow up to become adults, with no desire to form decent/stable relationships........because they dont know how.

Whites are different. They spend time, raising their children to 'think' they are better, teaching them to how to interact with each other, forming solid relationships.

When black folk involve themselves, with these people, they are amazed with how 'nice' a white/asian woman is, or a white/asian man.

This shouldnt be the case.



As far as the, "Wall of Shame"..........although i can understand their frustration (and i chuckled), i personally feel that these sisters were out of line.

When looking at statistics, black women are moving forward, doing great things. We were able to do it, because we pay attention to what was important.

These brothers that are dating IR, deserve to do as they please. These sisters should've respected their position, and their right to do so.

It seems when black women focus on black men, that would never date you to being with..........we miss out on the brothers that date black women exclusively.

These men are important, and should be our focus. Smile
appl appl appl appl @ qty

Your remarks are full of wisdom.

And you're very right. White women have their own issues. That is another thing I learned in my dating experience. They have issues out the ying yang.


quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:

This isn't about evening the score it's about receiving fair and equitable acknowledgment.



Fair and equitable acknowledgement from whom?

#1. The female participants in the discussion on this thread?

or

#2. Mass Media?


If it's #1 then I sympathize. Fairness would be nice.


If it's #2, then I fail to see the invalidity of my remarks. I still agree with you. But I contend that this is the wrong discussion in which to introduce that particular issue. It belongs in Issues and Politics.

Framing the present discussion in terms of what you see in the media is like framing a discussion on black art in terms of what's on BET .... or having a black political discussion within the framework of FOX news. Yes. Someone like an Armstrong Williams is responsible as an individual for his own views. But he has been selected by a white owned corporation to represent THEIR views in black face. And framing OUR discussions with the FAUX news agenda as the base of reference is not wise.

In the end, mass media organs seek profit. So they entertain and distract. The supposed war of black men vs. black women is profitable to them. And always has been. There's a long history of this.

I hope my analogy is clear.
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quote:
Originally posted by Khalliqa:
quote:
Originally posted by Huey:
If a black man made a similar list to humiliate a group of sisters, would you actually say to yourself, "Gee now that's love.
[/b]



No I would not say "Gee now that's love".... I would say something akin to "It's about time black men decided to care about their people..."... I'd say something like" That's right, brother" I'd be happy he'd let the world know that his women are important enough to him to no longer politely hold his frustrations while he watches his women sweetheart with the enemy.... I'd think he went about it immaturely and hope he could come up with something better... but I'd also completely understand he'd reached the point of being fed up watching the beginning stages of his community die.. all in the name of "individual" tastes and proclivities...


I'd just call the campus cops and let them deal with it.

And if the cops didn't deal with it, they's have me to deal with. That list would come down, and if my wife's name ever appeared on their door again, the door itself would be ripped off of its hinges.

Mad karate

No need to put up with such bs
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quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
appl appl appl appl @ qty

Your remarks are full of wisdom.

And you're very right. White women have their own issues. That is another thing I learned in my dating experience. They have issues out the ying yang.


quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:

This isn't about evening the score it's about receiving fair and equitable acknowledgment.



Fair and equitable acknowledgement from whom?

#1. The female participants in the discussion on this thread?

or

#2. Mass Media?


If it's #1 then I sympathize. Fairness would be nice.


If it's #2, then I fail to see the invalidity of my remarks. I still agree with you. But I contend that this is the wrong discussion in which to introduce that particular issue. It belongs in Issues and Politics.

Framing the present discussion in terms of what you see in the media is like framing a discussion on black art in terms of what's on BET .... or having a black political discussion within the framework of FOX news. Yes. Someone like an Armstrong Williams is responsible as an individual for his own views. But he has been selected by a white owned corporation to represent THEIR views in black face. And framing OUR discussions with the FAUX news agenda as the base of reference is not wise.

In the end, mass media organs seek profit. So they entertain and distract. The supposed war of black men vs. black women is profitable to them. And always has been. There's a long history of this.

I hope my analogy is clear.


You're a lost cause, honestbrother. While supporting the opinions of women in itself isn't bad you applaud for the wrong reasons. You want to talk about going deep? Let's talk about reality. The very women you applaud are women that are known to talk out of both sides of their mouths. They play the game of expressing the right opinions as to appease popular opinion while not offending their constituents.

The discussion was "framed" by oushun with her mantra on corporate media control and dumbing down of the masses, so you can drop that Fox News/ Meet the press mediator stance. When the conversation of interracial relationships - black men, white women: is it that serious, escalates to the level of being a threat to the black community and the community needing to be strong in order to have a strong country and a country having to be strong in order to have a strong planet you encompass politics into the greater scheme of things.

When you discuss a topic that has the potential to go in as many different directions as it has gone already you can't all of a sudden decide you want to pick and choose what is relevent and what isn't relevent to the conversation, particularly, when the very person you so vehemnantly support has taken the conversation to that level. This was originally all about interracial couples and it has morphed into a topic of religious beliefs, racist, fascist, political views - the whold nine yards.

Therefore, the conversation must be brought back down to its original purpose: Black men and white women or non-black women. The fact that this thread has gone on for severl threads proves that the issue of interracial marriages and couples is a serious issue. These racist views are not of a devine nature. These views are indeed man made. If the races weren't meant to cross genetic lines our DNA would be incompatible just as different species of mammals are incompatible.

You yourself, honestbrother, are treading dangerously close to talking out of both sides of your mouth. You can't be on the side of separatist racist views yet you made the conscious decision to intermingle with non-black women yourself. Like it or not you've joined the club, particularly, by black womens' standards and, particularly, by khaliqua's, oshun ausset's, and kocoliscious' standards, which means, like them, you're at the line of hypocricy.

Like it or not people are free to choose whomever they want to fall in love with. It does not render the services they have rendered to their communities ineffective - null and void - because they choose to date and or marry outside of their race. Some of the main people shouting all these racist, separatist, fascist views more than likely haven't done a single damn thing in their own communities in the effort of community service or educating children or participating in lock-ins where they mentor black youth. How many of these pro blacks have gone into the community and empowered and uplifted black youth? And not for just a few weeks or a few months I'm talking about years.

I don't want to hear any bullshit sermons about how my contributions to my community are less valuable because I do not limit myself to black women. The hell is wrong with you people? To even take the position of critisizing someone because they chose to date who they please is ignorant and narrow-minded. To imply that a person that has an individualist personality is somehow unfit for the betterment of the black race is preposerous, pompous, and arrogant. You're mearly sitting up in here blowing hot air and entertaining the masses of narrow-minded, self-righteous blacks that think they have the answer to black unity yet haven't lifted a damn finger to do anymore than help themselves.
quote:
Originally posted by Romulus Burnett:
You're a lost cause, honestbrother. While supporting the opinions of women in itself isn't bad you applaud for the wrong reasons. You want to talk about going deep? Let's talk about reality. The very women you applaud are women that are known to talk out of both sides of their mouths. They play the game of expressing the right opinions as to appease popular opinion while not offending their constituents.

The discussion was "framed" by oushun with her mantra on corporate media control and dumbing down of the masses, so you can drop that Fox News/ Meet the press mediator stance. When the conversation of interracial relationships - black men, white women: is it that serious, escalates to the level of being a threat to the black community and the community needing to be strong in order to have a strong country and a country having to be strong in order to have a strong planet you encompass politics into the greater scheme of things.




Dude, get a grip.

The ONLY portion of Oshun's post that I specifically endorsed was her observation about media.

I thought it was a good one ... which does not mean that I wholeheartedly agree with the rest of what she said. In fact, I thought there were valid points to a lot of your reply to her post.

Furthermore, I don't believe at all that I am talking out of "both sides of my mouth". I'm attempting to acknowledge valid points on both sides. I.e., I'm implicitly acknowledging the complexity of this issue PRECISELY by not taking one side over the other.
quote:
Originally posted by HeruStar:
Is there a REAL competition?

Could someone define this competion for me?


It's black women that are making a competition out of this and the consequences are permanent expulsion from the black race if you do not monopolize in favor of black women.

I'll just speak for myself in saying that if I'm dating a black woman and I'm not happy in that relationship I'm not going to sit on my hands and ignore several other women that may be of other races and nationalities in favor of a black woman. What about the black women that are pursuing non-black men and even dating non-black men exclusively? Nobody wants to bring that subject up. If that subject is brought up it's only the reactive side and not the proactive side. What are young black women doing in order to be proactive in seeking out a desirable mate? Sure looks like they aren't holding out for any brothers.

And what about the case of if your typical sister doesn't approve of a brother's eclectic personality? Is that brother to erase the characteristics of what is considered "acting white" from his personality in order to be accepted by these same judgemental black women?

This is where I'm confused.....

If I'm doing all the right "black" things but I'd rather go diving than sit at home and play spades all night, then I'm automatically a sell-out?

If a man possesses all of the qualities necessary to be a good husband, father, friend, and provider but he's not down with the box set of Tyler Perry's DVD's, then he ain't no good? I'm confused. Sounds like misplaced priorities to me.
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