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Man people make all types of excuses for the Democratic party, they have done nothing, and to just say they are better than Republicans just dont cut it anymore, they gonna have to anny up!! I was listening to Malcom's "Message to the Grassroots" and Ballot or the BUllet" and the things he spoke to eloquent about are still absolutely true today
As I [and Keylargo] stated before, I vote democrat, not because I believe that they have any love for, or even any respect for, the Black community; but rather, because the democrats promote policies that appeal to my sense of social and economic justice, more so than republican policies. No one has said or even implied that the democratic party is the be all and end all for Black people. So stop with the "strawman" arguments.

However:
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I view building an independent Black party on the national level, today ... right now ... as a romantic, but self-defeating strategy. [I'm assuming that you are talking about a Black party that will run Black candidates and will not consider forming alliances or supporting existing party candidates.]

I see that strategy as only working on the local/state-wide level, where Black folk have sufficient numbers to, if not elect representatives directly, have major influence in elections. That's to say, a Black party can win offices in a lot of precinct-wide races, in many city-wide races, in a few county-wide races; but in very few state-wide races. We just don't have the numbers.

Nationally, the republicans don't need, and frankly don't care about, the Black vote; but the democrats need the Black vote to win. IMHO, forming an independent Black party at this time merely ensures that republicans will continue to win national elections.


edited to add "at this time."
so we continue to support Democrates screwing us because of what? if we dont win nationwide races ok we not winning them anyway, what have we gained we cant loose.The Republicans still won the election the still control both houses of congress, so what the hell have we gained from the Democratic party, where is the hell is the WHITE LIBERAL when we need them?
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
As I [and Keylargo] stated before, I vote democrat, not because I believe that they have any love for, or even any respect for, the Black community; but rather, because the democrats promote policies that appeal to my sense of social and economic justice, more so than republican policies. No one has said or even implied that the democratic party is the be all and end all for Black people. So stop with the "strawman" arguments.


I dunno, bro. I wouldn't vote for either party. The Democrats and the Republicans are essentially not too different. The Republicans are Neoconservatives and the Democrats are Neoliberals. Both of them support Neoliberal free-market Globalism. The Republicans favor a type of international "military Keynesianism" where as Democrats favor more low-key influence through globalism.

75-80% of Democrats in office voted for the War in Iraq as well. And let's not forget that under Bill Clinton, the US sided with Croatia over Serbia during the Balkan Conflict in the 90's. Croatia was NEO-FASCIST and Serbia was Socialist. So naturally, we supported the Fascists (just like we still support Fascist Neoliberal dictatorships in Latin-America).
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I dunno, bro. I wouldn't vote for either party. The Democrats and the Republicans are essentially not too different. The Republicans are Neoconservatives and the Democrats are Neoliberals. Both of them support Neoliberal free-market Globalism. The Republicans favor a type of international "military Keynesianism" where as Democrats favor more low-key influence through globalism.


Okay, as usual you make a good point. However, I was speaking domestically, rather than globally.
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Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
Okay, as usual you make a good point. However, I was speaking domestically, rather than globally.


I dunno. Even domestically, the Democraps are just as bad as the Republicans. They vote for the same measures as the Republicans 80% of the time. Most of the Dems support Outsourcing and business executives voting themselves pay raises and laying off workers or docking their pay.
First of all, with the Black approval rating of Bush at only TWO PERCENT black people voting for Bush or Republicans is never going to happen.

Secondly, for this tom Deroy Murdock to mention Katrina in a statement favorable to Bush or Republicans is simply amazing, since "Katrina" is now a new curse word among blacks, especially concerning how Republicans, and ONLY Republicans have continued to abandon Black New Orleans to results of the storm.

Thirdly, how do you think the Republican Party got to where it is now? Because it's been infliltrated and turned inside out by the racist and immoral white evangelicals. I'm sure black people are smart enough to do the same to another major political party in order to better serve our interests, instead of going the self-defeating route and forming our own party.
quote:
Originally posted by ItAintEazy:
First of all, with the Black approval rating of Bush at only TWO PERCENT black people voting for Bush or Republicans is never going to happen.

Secondly, for this tom Deroy Murdock to mention Katrina in a statement favorable to Bush or Republicans is simply amazing, since "Katrina" is now a new curse word among blacks, especially concerning how Republicans, and ONLY Republicans have continued to abandon Black New Orleans to results of the storm.

Thirdly, how do you think the Republican Party got to where it is now? Because it's been infliltrated and turned inside out by the racist and immoral white evangelicals. I'm sure black people are smart enough to do the same to another major political party in order to better serve our interests, instead of going the self-defeating route and forming our own party.


Are you talking to me? If you are, in NO way do I support the Republican Party. They are a party of proto-Fascists.

However, I'd say the Dems are just Republican-lite. The Dems agree with the Repubs on most issues. When they do disagree, it is a mealy-mouthed, half-hearted disagreement.

Neither the Democratic or Republican Party is favorable towards Minorities. The Republicans want to limit Minorities from certain jobs and the Democrats have no problem with Minorities getting paid lesser wages for the same jobs.


It's sad to say, but look at Barack Obama's voting record. I don't know about Bush only having 2% of the Black vote, the last election showed more Blacks voting Republican than any time since pre-WWII times.
E.P.,

Okay, I see the problem. In the beginning, I made the following disclaimer:

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However, although I recognize that neither party has any love for Black folk, one party consistently promotes policies that advocate social and economic justice [or, at least used to before this administration neutered them]; whereas, the other promotes social and economic exploitation.
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Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
E.P.,

Okay, I see the problem. In the beginning, I made the following disclaimer:

quote:
However, although I recognize that neither party has any love for Black folk, one party consistently promotes policies that advocate social and economic justice [or, at least used to before this administration neutered them]; whereas, the other promotes social and economic exploitation.


Well, that's fair to say.

My complaint with Dems is that they aren't the same party today as they were during the days of FDR and Carter. Most of their policies today are like a cross between Clinton's globalism and Eisenhower's economic philosophies. They aren't Social Democrats and Keynesians any more. They're a cross of Neoliberals and Paleoconservatives.
quote:
Originally posted by Empty Purnata:
Are you talking to me? If you are, in NO way do I support the Republican Party. They are a party of proto-Fascists.


No, no, just responding to the topic in general, although I do love the "proto-Fascist" label Big Grin

It's sad how detached the Democratic party is to black people, but again the alternative is much worse.

That 2 percent statistic was from an NBC poll done in October (I think) where they reported the black approval rating. Yes Bush may have gotten the better of the margin of error concerning black voters, but whatever boost he had is certainly gone today.
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Furthermore, I am an individual, I can think on my own, I take responsibility for my own actions, and I don't play the "I'm a victim game" either. Because I'm a Black American doesn't mean I have to think like the group. I know plenty of other successful Black Americans who think like that also.


You don't have to think like "the group" but you do need to think. With some of the crazy things you're saying I have my suspicions that you're a black man. Reading how progressive most people here are I don't think anyone besides you would say we all think alike. All your post are accusations that I don't see anyone saying or suggesting. Please direct me to a posting where someone was crying victim hood or that racist are responsible for black illegitimacy or the family breakdown. I don't see anyone saying any of those things so you're in the wrong place if that's what you're looking for.
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I don't see anyone saying any of those things so you're in the wrong place if that's what you're looking for.


Alonzo, I'm sure you've heard of the "strawman" argument; the favored debate tool of neo-cons everywhere. This construct frequently follows a Black neo-con announcing
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I don't support either Political Party Democratic Or Republican.
And/or,
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I am an individual, I can think on my own, I take responsibility for my own actions
while parroting lines directly from the Republican National Committee's Talking Points Memo [Negro Edition].
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Originally posted by alonzo:
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Originally posted by telltruth:
I'm sorry people, but I identify with neither Political Party Democratic or Republican. I only give you the the true "FACTS". On the contrary, what has the "democrats" done for Black people besides, invent the KKK, all the lynching from 1866 until the 1960's, blocking Civil Rights Acts since the 1800's Wink


Telltruth-----After reading this and your other post you probably need to change your name. "Telltruth" is not working for you anymore. You may not be a member of either party but your opinions are surely slanted to the right. Also brother, if you're not politically active then your opinions don't count and they don't matter. This will surely be the last post of yours I respond to. Next, you're arguing points you don't need to argue among black people. I'm a democrat and I have no love for Senator Byrd. As far as I'm concerned you can line him up with your other rightwing crazies. Please, continue to bash Byrd and any other dem with a simular background , we don't care. We understand a lot of democratics are no better then the repugs but as a people our best interest is with the demacratic party. Dems aren't close to being rightious or perfect but when you compare the two parties it's a no brainer. The ghettos are a reflection of our country and it's priorities and not just one political party. If you really cared about this you'd think more broadly and undertand our condition is because of the entire system and not one party or another. Anyway, you're arguments are weak so I don't think you have to worry about anyone getting mad or having hard feelings. We've always been "bashed" so a weak argument and personal opinion such as yours only makes me chuckle.


I take it from your post that because you and most people on this thread are Democrats I can't present facts that happened in history. And just because it goes against what you have been told you assume I'm a Republican Party Member and you have doubts about my race....for your info I'm a Black man, American, and christian and I am a member of the Constitution Party, (www.constitutionparty.com) but I vote independently.

I already told you that what I posted was not my opinion. Just bonifided "verifiable" facts. So, you and anyone else can take the "facts" I presented or leave it....doesn't matter to me. No one is making anyone read my "post". Why can't we just have a civil discussion and just civilly agree to disagree if it comes to that and not attack each other. Thank You.
quote:
Originally posted by telltruth:
quote:
Originally posted by alonzo:
quote:
Originally posted by telltruth:
I'm sorry people, but I identify with neither Political Party Democratic or Republican. I only give you the the true "FACTS". On the contrary, what has the "democrats" done for Black people besides, invent the KKK, all the lynching from 1866 until the 1960's, blocking Civil Rights Acts since the 1800's Wink


Telltruth-----After reading this and your other post you probably need to change your name. "Telltruth" is not working for you anymore. You may not be a member of either party but your opinions are surely slanted to the right. Also brother, if you're not politically active then your opinions don't count and they don't matter. This will surely be the last post of yours I respond to. Next, you're arguing points you don't need to argue among black people. I'm a democrat and I have no love for Senator Byrd. As far as I'm concerned you can line him up with your other rightwing crazies. Please, continue to bash Byrd and any other dem with a simular background , we don't care. We understand a lot of democratics are no better then the repugs but as a people our best interest is with the demacratic party. Dems aren't close to being rightious or perfect but when you compare the two parties it's a no brainer. The ghettos are a reflection of our country and it's priorities and not just one political party. If you really cared about this you'd think more broadly and undertand our condition is because of the entire system and not one party or another. Anyway, you're arguments are weak so I don't think you have to worry about anyone getting mad or having hard feelings. We've always been "bashed" so a weak argument and personal opinion such as yours only makes me chuckle.


I take it from your post that because you and most people on this thread are Democrats I can't present facts that happened in history. And just because it goes against what you have been told you assume I'm a Republican Party Member and you have doubts about my race....for your info I'm a Black man, American, and christian and I am a member of the Constitution Party, but I vote independently.

I already told you that what I posted was not my opinion. Just bonifided "verifiable" facts. So, you and anyone else can take the "facts" I presented or leave it....doesn't matter to me. No one is making anyone read my "post". Why can't we just have a civil discussion and just civilly agree to disagree if it comes to that and not attack each other. Thank You.


I have a question for you Telltruth. Do you think political parties tend to remain the same for the most part over decades and never change their party agenda? or do you believe that political parties tend to evolve over time?
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Originally posted by telltruth:
for your info I'm a Black man, American, and christian and I am a member of the Constitution Party...


http://www.constitutionparty.com/

http://www.constitutionparty.com/party_platform.php

http://www.constitutionparty.com/mission_statement.php

http://www.constitutionparty.com/party_history.php

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Welfare
God, who endows us with life, liberty, property, and the right to pursue happiness, also exhorts individuals to care for the needy, the sick, the homeless, the aged, and those who are otherwise unable to care for themselves.

America's welfare crisis is a government-induced crisis. Government social and cultural policies have undermined the work ethic, even as the government's economic and regulatory policies have undermined the ability of our citizens to obtain work.

Charity, and provision of welfare to those in need, is not a Constitutional responsibility of the federal government. Under no circumstances should the taxpayers of the United States be obligated, under penalty of law through forced taxation, to assume the cost of providing welfare for other citizens. Neither should taxpayers be indentured to subsidize welfare for persons who enter the United States illegally.

The message of Christian charity is fundamentally at odds with the concept of welfare maintenance as a right. In many cases, welfare provisions by the Federal government are not only misdirected, but morally destructive. It is the intended purpose of civil government to safeguard life, liberty and property - not to redistribute wealth. Such redistribution is contrary to the Biblical command against theft.

We encourage individuals, families, churches, civic groups and other private organizations, to fulfill their personal responsibility to help those in need.


sck sck sck
quote:
Originally posted by Empty Purnata:
quote:
Originally posted by telltruth:
for your info I'm a Black man, American, and christian and I am a member of the Constitution Party...


http://www.constitutionparty.com/

http://www.constitutionparty.com/party_platform.php

http://www.constitutionparty.com/mission_statement.php

http://www.constitutionparty.com/party_history.php

quote:
Welfare
God, who endows us with life, liberty, property, and the right to pursue happiness, also exhorts individuals to care for the needy, the sick, the homeless, the aged, and those who are otherwise unable to care for themselves.

America's welfare crisis is a government-induced crisis. Government social and cultural policies have undermined the work ethic, even as the government's economic and regulatory policies have undermined the ability of our citizens to obtain work.

Charity, and provision of welfare to those in need, is not a Constitutional responsibility of the federal government. Under no circumstances should the taxpayers of the United States be obligated, under penalty of law through forced taxation, to assume the cost of providing welfare for other citizens. Neither should taxpayers be indentured to subsidize welfare for persons who enter the United States illegally.

The message of Christian charity is fundamentally at odds with the concept of welfare maintenance as a right. In many cases, welfare provisions by the Federal government are not only misdirected, but morally destructive. It is the intended purpose of civil government to safeguard life, liberty and property - not to redistribute wealth. Such redistribution is contrary to the Biblical command against theft.

We encourage individuals, families, churches, civic groups and other private organizations, to fulfill their personal responsibility to help those in need.


sck sck sck


I see your point but let's not forget the so called Reconstruction or lack there of in the South. Something had to be done. The social policies like welfare and social security were a way, to help people trying to recover from the injustices they faced. I think the programs were well intended but produced unintended consequences.
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
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The best way to get blacks to consider voting Republican is for GOP candidates to ask them this basic question: "What have the Democrats done for you lately?"

And I respond with... "What have the Republicans ever done for me, and what do they think they're going to do for me in the future? Roll Eyes


Well if the House Republicans stand firm on border security / illegal immigration enforcement / no amnesty till the 2008 race:

McCain won't win the Republican primary and someone with an R by their name will be running with the House position of some sort.

Probably be running against Hilary for the D's and I just don't see her galvanizing a lot of folks given the Senate's version of the illegal immigration bill.

R won't get a majority but even if they increase it to 20-30% on the illegal immigration issue it's not likely Hilary would win on the national level.

Or like a lot of people on the conservative side did in 2000 sat it out but came out because he talked the talk and walked the walked on judicial nominees. Quite a few people kinda tired of the 9th Circuit decisions came out primarily for that since the Supreme Court was up for grabs.

So it pretty much boils down I'd say if the House stands firm they will maintain control of that but perhaps not the Senate. Bush is pretty much a lame duck anyhow -- pissed off his base / opposition already hates him but 2008 will be interesting.

I'd say though that if the House caves you'd see the D's win all 3.
I have a question for you Telltruth. Do you think political parties tend to remain the same for the most part over decades and never change their party agenda? or do you believe that political parties tend to evolve over time?[/QUOTE]

Political Parties evolve over time, however, I truly believe whoever doesn't know the past must have little understanding of the present and no vision of the future. (Please understand that I am speaking in general).

www.constitutionparty.com
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Originally posted by telltruth:

Political Parties evolve over time, however, I truly believe whoever doesn't know the past must have little understanding of the present and no vision of the future.


Respectfully, if you are aware that parties adjust political ideology than why did you talk about 19th century Republicans and Democrats as if they stood for the same thing that they do today?
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I take it from your post that because you and most people on this thread are Democrats I can't present facts that happened in history. And just because it goes against what you have been told you assume I'm a Republican Party Member and you have doubts about my race....for your info I'm a Black man, American, and christian and I am a member of the Constitution Party, but I vote independently.

I already told you that what I posted was not my opinion. Just bonifided "verifiable" facts. So, you and anyone else can take the "facts" I presented or leave it....doesn't matter to me. No one is making anyone read my "post". Why can't we just have a civil discussion and just civilly agree to disagree if it comes to that and not attack each other. Thank You.


TellTruth, you're a funny dude. Don't take these post too personal, I'm just responding to your post and giving you the facts as I see them.
I have no problem with you presenting facts but I've yet to see facts you've presented. You talk a good game but you haven't presented any facts whatsoever. What I say is not based on what I've been told but rather I'm responding directly to what you write. I make my own conclusions based on what I know. Respectfully I'm not seeing any substance or facts to most of what you write. If you've presented facts on this thread please point those out to me. I'm a reasonable person and will gladly embrace facts but I honestly haven't seen any. I'll take your word that you're a black man but I made my comment because your post read like things I hear on Fox news and from far "right wing" white people I come across. I also respect the fact you vote independent but an independent candidate will not win any elections anytime soon so it seems you're wasting your time and vote. If you don't like either party and voting out of principal I can respect that but I'm a believer that you have to face reality and do what's in your best interest. Democrats who are far more sensible and fair than repugs could have surely used your vote and the votes of people like you in the last election. Had you voted for the greater good this country may not be in the shapes it's in. You're right, no one is making me read your post but if you put them here I'm going to read them and will respond if I like. No one is making you read my replies either and I don't get offended or upset by what you say so you shouldn't either. I disagree with almost everything you've written but that doesn't mean I'm not being civil. There are no hard feelings brother, I'm just giving my side of the story. Don't take it personally. Please copy and paste some of those facts you said you offered.
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somebody tell me who in the Democratic party will address our issues as black people if they become President. These are the same cats who voted for NAFTA, now look at the results? We have no permanent friends or enemies just permenant intrest. Who looks out for the intrest of black people?


Zakar, very good question. The answer is in our hands. We first have to get mobilized and get out and vote in massive numbers. Once we make our voices heard by helping to elect a democrat then we hold his or her feet to the fire and forced them to do what's in the best interest of our people. We'll never get everything we want but we can get a lot. "The People" really do have the power but you have to be willing to make people uphold what they say. Notice how nervous our elected officials are getting because Hispanics are mobilized. This is what we have to do.
In my opinion both fucks us equally and neither uses a condom. During Clintons run what happend, more black men got locked up than ever before. NAFTA was passed, who benifits from NAFTA, Mexico and Big business, who lose, working class citizens of the nation. I havent seen anything the Democratic party has done for us since Johnson, and what he did was give acts that were already given to us in the late 1800's
quote:
Originally posted by ItAintEazy:
No, no, just responding to the topic in general, although I do love the "proto-Fascist" label Big Grin


Isn't it great? Big Grin I call 'em "proto-Fascist" because at this point in time, their beliefs are basically Fascism-lite. They meet at least 11 of the 14 points of Fascism.

quote:
It's sad how detached the Democratic party is to black people, but again the alternative is much worse.

That 2 percent statistic was from an NBC poll done in October (I think) where they reported the black approval rating. Yes Bush may have gotten the better of the margin of error concerning black voters, but whatever boost he had is certainly gone today.


I say we create our own consciousness and vanguard parties. fro
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Originally posted by Black Viking:
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:
Who looks out for the intrest of black people?

Black people look out for the interests of Black people.

A part of how we do that is with a clear understanding of which political party's policies do the least amount of damage to us.

exactly!

I'd like to know specifically what the black issues are that need to be addressed. I'd like to see a list and then line by line, I'd like us to compare the Republicans' agenda to the Democrats' agenda. Which agenda will be more suited to meet the needs of blacks?

I'll start the list:

Healthcare - (look at healthcare policies in the various states and look at the leadership that put those policies into place. then, look at it on a federal level)

Education- (again, look at the states and the leadership and compare overall)

Racial Profiling- how do you think Republicans feel about that?

I'm sure there are more.
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:
In my opinion both fucks us equally and neither uses a condom. During Clintons run what happend, more black men got locked up than ever before. NAFTA was passed, who benifits from NAFTA, Mexico and Big business, who lose, working class citizens of the nation. I havent seen anything the Democratic party has done for us since Johnson, and what he did was give acts that were already given to us in the late 1800's


so based on your analogy, I guess we should just not fuck.....but since we know, we can't not fuck, we must pick which one to do.


let's not forget, we have to negotiate with Republicans. It's hard to get things done when the two can't agree.

Also, Reagan's "war on drugs" is what contributed to the high rate of incarceration of black men. you can also blame the unequal judicial system and poor choices made by some men. You cannot blame Clinton for that.
quote:
Originally posted by keylargo:
Also, Reagan's "war on drugs" is what contributed to the high rate of incarceration of black men. you can also blame the unequal judicial system and poor choices made by some men. You cannot blame Clinton for that.

Very true.

Democrats often get blamed for programs that Republicans put in place. Government moves slowly. Often times, the results of Republican policies don't manifest fully until power has changed hands. It often takes a Democrat to come in and try to clean up the mess after the Republicans have spent far too much time screwing it up.

I actually feel sorry for the Democrat who has to clean up Bush's misdirected "War on Terror".
The Elites in the GOP are no worse than the elites in the Deomocratic party. I feel sorry for black peope who continue to put all our faith in the Democratic party when they end up doing no more for the poor than the Republicans. The one thing the Democrats did do a little in was with Unions but since theve sold out I fail to see anything worthwhile they offer us.Clinton passed that awful welfare reform bill also. But everyone has the right to be with any party they want to. All i say is why do we have to be loyal to the Democratic party, why not at the very least register independent and reserve the vote.
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:
The Elites in the GOP are no worse than the elites in the Deomocratic party. I feel sorry for black peope who continue to put all our faith in the Democratic party when they end up doing no more for the poor than the Republicans. The one thing the Democrats did do a little in was with Unions but since theve sold out I fail to see anything worthwhile they offer us.Clinton passed that awful welfare reform bill also. But everyone has the right to be with any party they want to. All i say is why do we have to be loyal to the Democratic party, why not at the very least register independent and reserve the vote.

just because I'm a registered Democrat does not mean I will not consider someone other than a Democrat. I really base my decisions on issues and where a particular candidate stands.
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:

The Elites in the GOP are no worse than the elites in the Deomocratic party.


George Bush, Dick Cheney, and Karl Rove are lightyears worse for black folks than ANY Democrats - particularly the leaders including Howard Dean, Hillary Clinton, and John Kerry.
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quote:
Originally posted by alonzo:
quote:
I take it from your post that because you and most people on this thread are Democrats I can't present facts that happened in history. And just because it goes against what you have been told you assume I'm a Republican Party Member and you have doubts about my race....for your info I'm a Black man, American, and christian and I am a member of the Constitution Party, but I vote independently.

I already told you that what I posted was not my opinion. Just bonifided "verifiable" facts. So, you and anyone else can take the "facts" I presented or leave it....doesn't matter to me. No one is making anyone read my "post". Why can't we just have a civil discussion and just civilly agree to disagree if it comes to that and not attack each other. Thank You.


TellTruth, you're a funny dude. Don't take these post too personal, I'm just responding to your post and giving you the facts as I see them.
I have no problem with you presenting facts but I've yet to see facts you've presented. You talk a good game but you haven't presented any facts whatsoever. What I say is not based on what I've been told but rather I'm responding directly to what you write. I make my own conclusions based on what I know. Respectfully I'm not seeing any substance or facts to most of what you write. If you've presented facts on this thread please point those out to me. I'm a reasonable person and will gladly embrace facts but I honestly haven't seen any. I'll take your word that you're a black man but I made my comment because your post read like things I hear on Fox news and from far "right wing" white people I come across. I also respect the fact you vote independent but an independent candidate will not win any elections anytime soon so it seems you're wasting your time and vote. If you don't like either party and voting out of principal I can respect that but I'm a believer that you have to face reality and do what's in your best interest. Democrats who are far more sensible and fair than repugs could have surely used your vote and the votes of people like you in the last election. Had you voted for the greater good this country may not be in the shapes it's in. You're right, no one is making me read your post but if you put them here I'm going to read them and will respond if I like. No one is making you read my replies either and I don't get offended or upset by what you say so you shouldn't either. I disagree with almost everything you've written but that doesn't mean I'm not being civil. There are no hard feelings brother, I'm just giving my side of the story. Don't take it personally. Please copy and paste some of those facts you said you offered.


Sorry, for the misunderstanding. I didn't give any facts you say?! How about the following verifiable "Facts":

1.The oldest political party in the USA is the Democratic Party 1792.
2.The Republican Party was founded in Michigan in 1854 by abolitionists.
3.They have an elected former Klu Klan Klansman as a Democrat Senator from W.Virginia....was a member of the Klan until he was 40 years old.
4.Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Maxine Waters, The Black Congressional Caucus, Tom Joyner and his Clowns, haven't said one word about this
Former Klansman Senior member Democrat of the Senate. Why??? Be cause he is a member of the Democratic Party!
5.The Democrats nominated and elected a "Draftdodger" as Commander In Chief and President of the United States in the Person of Bill Clinton(1992-2000).
6.The Democrats had been in Power for over a half century when they lost power in 1996....in those 50 years they had done nothing....and
every program implemented by these Democrat "Bandits" failed!
7.The Democ(rat)ic Party destroyed the American Black Family....along with their allies Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and other national race
card throwers and "Overseers".
8.The Democ(rat)ic Party and their Overseers equated the civil rights of FAGGOTS, MAGGOTS and SISSIES WITH THE CIVIL RIGHTS OF THE AMERICAN
BLACK STRUGGLE!
9.The Democ(rat)ic Party and their Black overseers Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton
did not condemn the FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON WHEN HE SENT OUR ARMED FORCES TO BOSENIA AND BOMDED AND KILLED THOUSANDS OF
CIVILIANS.....AND THIS COWARD DID NOT SEEK THE PERMISSION OF THE UNITED NATIONS OR FRANCE, GERMANY OR RUSSIA! Where was the outcry from the
Democratic Party???
10.The Democratic Party is more interested in regaining "Power" and subjecting clueless, mindless people in there web of "Leftwing
Non-sensical rhetoric over "National Security"!
11.Former President Jimmy Carter (A Democrat gave "AMNESTY" TO THE VIETNAM DRAFTDODGER(S)! IF IT WASN'T FOR THIS BILL CLINTON COULDN'T
BECOME PRESIDENT....CAUSE HE WOULD HAVE BEEN CLASSIFIED A CRIMINAL!
12.The town of Rosewood, Florida in 1923 was burned down by whites, and the county and state governments was ran by Democrats-many Blacks were slain and no charges filed. www.tfn.net/doc/rosewood.txt
13.The murder of Emmett Till by whites near the town of Drew, Mississippi county of Sunflower in 1955, and town, county and state governments all ran by Democrats-no charges filed until a Republican Governor was elected in last couple of years-nearly 50 years later!
14.Civil Rights Movement 1955-1968 www.watson.org/~lisa/blackhistory/civilrights-55-65/montbus.html
From Rosa Parks to MLK and Congressman John Lewis was beat up/stopped by the Democratic goverment(s) in Montgomery and Birmingham, Alabama.
15.The Civil Rights Act(s) of 1957 and 1965 was passed by the Republican Party- more Republicans voted for it than Democrats. Senator Everett Dirksen (R. IL) led the Charge....Al Gore's daddy then Senator of Tenn. and a Democrat voted against it!
16.Jimmy Carter the worst President and Democrat that ever been passed up the First Black Four Star General to be Chairman of Joint Chief of Staff in 1976 and didn't even propose MLK to be a holiday-two Republican Presidents did-Bush and Reagan. Jimmy Carter claimed he was good friend to MLK.
17.It was The Democratic Party that instituted the Black Codes and Jim Crow Laws.
18.The KKK was the terrorist arm of the Democratic Party from 1866-1960's.

I like to add this; "Our people have made the mistake of confusing the methods with the objectives. As long ae we agree on objectives, we should never fall out with each other just because we believe in different methods or tactics or strategy....We have to keep in mind at all times that we are not fighting for integration, nor are we fighting for separation. We are fighting for recognition as free humans in this society"-Malcolm X.
Last edited {1}
quote:
Originally posted by telltruth:
Sorry, for the misunderstanding. I didn't give any facts you say?! How about the following verifiable "Facts":

I'm starting to understand your version of "verifiable facts".

quote:
3.They have an elected former Klu Klan Klansman as a Democrat Senator from W.Virginia....was a member of the Klan until he was 40 years old.

The Democratic party doesn't elect anyone, the public elects. You're spinning rhetoric.

quote:
4.Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Maxine Waters, The Black Congressional Caucus, Tom Joyner and his Clowns, haven't said one word about this
Former Klansman Senior member Democrat of the Senate. Why??? Be cause he is a member of the Democratic Party!

How do you verify the embolden parts? Again, this is useless spin.

quote:
5.The Democrats nominated and elected a "Draftdodger" as Commander In Chief and President of the United States in the Person of Bill Clinton(1992-2000).

Again, the Democratic party doesn't elect anyone. The public does. And really, who cares that Clinton was a draft dodger? Can you really compare that, or anything else Clinton did wrong, to the lies and deceite coming out of the White House today? Get some perspective man.

quote:
7.The Democ(rat)ic Party destroyed the American Black Family....along with their allies Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and other national race
card throwers and "Overseers".

Now, you're absolutely going to have to "verify" this one.

First, please explain how the Black family has been destroyed. Then, explain how the Democratic Party is responsible. Then, explain what the "race card" has to do with anything.

quote:
8.The Democ(rat)ic Party and their Overseers equated the civil rights of FAGGOTS, MAGGOTS and SISSIES WITH THE CIVIL RIGHTS OF THE AMERICAN
BLACK STRUGGLE!

Now, your biases truly become clear. The above sentiment has been expressed before on this board. But, not in quite such a bigotted fashion. I'd ask you to verify the above statement, but there isn't really anything of substance there to verify.

quote:
10.The Democratic Party is more interested in regaining "Power" and subjecting clueless, mindless people in there web of "Leftwing
Non-sensical rhetoric over "National Security"!

Isn't that the same non-sensical rhetoric that got Bush re-elected in the first place?
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
TellTruth, if you believe the tripe you write, then you're scaring me.


You can call it tripe if want to....but, what I gave you is documented historical facts-And like I said it doesn't matter to me whether you believe it or not....you can get the facts right on your computer-just google it! Here is something else written by another Black man:

TRUTH ABOUT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY
From Toogood Reports

The Long, Sad, Violent History of Democrats' Racial Hatred for Blacks
BY: Perry Drake
May 2003

It has always seemed unnatural and unwise to me whenever I hear someone
who's been slandered by a particularly egregious lie reply that they're
not going to dignify that accusation with a response. For it has always
been crystal clear to me that whenever your honor, integrity and
reputation are called into question that you should be quick, thorough
and - when circumstances demand - quite loud in defense of them.
Otherwise, people will assume that the accusation must carry some weight
and the falsity levied against you just might end up sticking. That's
what has happened to the political party that I belong to - the
Republicans.

For decades the Party of Lincoln has been under almost
constant assault for being "racist" and "openly hostile" to blacks.
However, nothing could be further from the truth - but you would never
know it by the party's spineless, practically nonexistent defense of its
record on race and civil rights.

From the days of Lincoln until the present, blacks have had no better
friend, party-wise, than the Republicans. Since its inception in the
mid-19th century, the GOP has built an exemplary record on civil rights,
particularly if you want to use the Democrat Party as a comparison. The
party's first president, Abraham Lincoln, issued the Emancipation
Proclamation on Jan. 1, 1863, the height of the Civil War, squelching
any chance that the European powers of the day would intervene in the
conflict in favor of the Confederacy. With the stroke of his pen,
Lincoln destroyed the last real hope the Confederacy had for a victory.
Soon after the war ended, it was a Republican-controlled Congress that
rammed through the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments to the Constitution
that, among other things, abolished slavery, guaranteed equal protection
and due process and addressed blacks' right to vote. In the late 19th
century, Democrat governors and Democrat-controlled state legislatures
in the South couldn't pass Jim Crow laws fast enough. Those Democrats
created a nearly century-long, legal racial caste system that relegated
blacks to the lowest educational, political, economic and social strata.
I have family members who grew up under Jim Crow. To hear them tell it,
it weren't no joke.

And let us not forget that during the same period it was Democrats
throughout the United States who organized and ran America's premier
terrorist organization - the Ku Klux Klan. And speaking of the Klan,
remember the great Democrat President Woodrow Wilson? After a screening
of D.W. Griffith's paean to the Ku Klux Klan, "Birth of a Nation,"
Wilson, turned-movie critic, said of the film: "It is like writing
history with lightning. And my only regret is that it is all so terribly
true."

Needless to say, the NAACP had a different outlook. After its viewing,
the civil rights organization was mortified to the point of launching a
nationwide protest in 1915 against the film. The group was equally
appalled by President Wilson's comments and it launched a public protest
against him.

Before we move on, one more thing about President Wilson. He was the
president who led our nation into WWI with the ringing declaration that
it was to make the world "safe for democracy." In Woodrow's mind,
though, "democracy" applied to everyone except those annoying little
dark-skinned people in America who are always clamoring for civil
rights. In 1913, Wilson introduced segregation into the federal
government.

Yes, dear readers, the man who is worshipped as the utmost "progressive"
(where and by who have you heard that term used lately?) of his time
allowed federal officials to segregate "toilets, cafeterias and work"
areas of various federal departments.
It was left to Wilson's successor, Republican Warren G. Harding to scrap
the segregation policy. And Warren G. didn't stop there. In 1922,
Harding delivered a bold speech in Birmingham, Ala., (A Democrat
stronghold that was later known by blacks as "Bombingham") in which he
called for black equality. Up to then, no U.S. president had ever spoken
so forcefully about civil rights.

Harding was elected in 1920. Funny thing about the Republican Party
platform that Harding ran under. It called for federal anti-lynching
legislation. Guess which party didn't? If you said Democrat, go to the
head of the line.

Moving on, in answer to the burgeoning civil rights movement in the
'50s, it was Democrat governors and Democrat-controlled state
legislatures in the South that placed the Confederate battle flag on
their state capitol flags. It's an issue that continues to inflame
racial passions even today.

In 1957, Orval Faubus, the governor of Arkansas, called out his state's
National Guard to prevent the integration of Central High School in
Little Rock. In response, President Dwight D. Eisenhower sent U.S.
troops to the city to escort nine frightened black teens into the school
past riotous mobs inflamed by Faubus' defiance of a federal court order.
Faubus was a Democrat. Eisenhower was a Republican.

On June 11, 1963, Alabama Gov. George Wallace stood in the doorway of
the University of Alabama to block its integration. Wallace was a
Democrat. Now, I grant you, John F. Kennedy was the Democrat president
who federalized the Alabama National Guard and ordered its units to the
university to force its doors open to black students. But it's not
generally known that the then-Sen. Kennedy - with an eye on the
Democrat presidential nomination for 1960 - voted against the Civil
Rights Act of 1957, the law that really got the ball rolling on federal
civil rights legislation.

And it was Kennedy's brother, Robert, who in 1964 assisted the FBI's
efforts to destroy Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. by approving the
wiretapping of the man considered the heart and soul of the civil rights
movement.

And to think at one time you could find in black homes across the nation
what I used to call the Black Person's Trinity: chintzy, black-velvet
portraits of JFK, RFK and Dr. King painted side by side. As far as other
important civil rights legislation, the 1964 Civil Rights Act and the
Voting Rights Act of 1965 would never have became law if not for
Republican senators and congressmen whose overwhelming support offset
extreme Democrat opposition.

Now honesty demands that I admit that I have never been in favor of
affirmative action programs. As a black man I find them demeaning, and
as an American, divisive. But that's an argument for another day.
However, the fact remains that it was President Nixon who implemented
the first affirmative action program with the Philadelphia Plan in the
late 1960s. The plan required government contractors to set goals and
timetables for hiring minorities. Nixon was a Republican. Sure, some
will say that it's all well and good to cite the historical record, but
what about now? What have the Republicans done of late? I begin by
pointing out that Democrats continue to demonstrate a curious affinity
for standing in schoolhouse doors, especially when black children are
involved.

But of late, Democrats are not trying to keep black children out, but
in. In public opinion polls on school choice, blacks overwhelmingly
favor vouchers to rescue their children from failing schools. No one
knows better the damage that poor schools can do to their children's
future and communities than blacks. Republicans are in favor of school
choice. Democrats aren't.
Also in more contemporary times, President Bush appointed two blacks to
the highest positions in government ever occupied by blacks in America.
Today, national security adviser Condoleezza Rice and Secretary of State
Colin Powell are very powerful, influential members of the Bush
administration. Powell, in fact, is fourth in the succession line for
the presidency.

Oh, by the way, do you know who is third in line? Sen. Robert Byrd of
West Virginia. Old "Sheets" himself. The same Byrd of the "white
niggers" comments on March 5, 2001, and who was a member of the KKK. And
Sen. Byrd was not just any old member. No, sir. He was a "grand kleagle"
- a recruiter!

Does anyone remember the late war with Iraq? It lasted about a minute
but you may have had a chance to notice that the vice chief of
operations at Central Command was a brotha - Army Brig. Gen. Vincent
Brooks.

And let's not let the "fair and free" press off the hook. Back when Jim
Crow and segregation were "the law of the land" in the South, the press
served as cheerleaders for all those kind, compassionate Democrats as
they lovingly lynched black people by the hundreds on a yearly basis.
Small wonder that the press behaved as badly as it did, though. The
people who ran those papers, which proudly featured the brutalized and
desecrated bodies of black lynching victims on their front pages quite
frequently, were all Democrats.

Today, whenever a Republican says anything that can be twisted by
Democrats and race hustlers to smack the least bit of racism, the press
is quick to pounce on him like Jesse Jackson on a bag of stolen federal
dollars.

The hypocrisy of the press on matters of race is appalling. Just take a
walk into your average newsroom and tell me what you see? Wait, I'll
save you the trip - a sea of white faces and sprinkled here and there,
a black face or two. Or better still, tune in to any one of the numerous
weekly Sunday news shows and what you'll find is overwhelming white. Now
here's a homework assignment - what political party do you think most
of the members of the press belong to? Here's a hint - Democrat. I
need not end here. I could go on all day citing example after example on
this matter (Does the name Bull Connor ring a bell, for instance? A
Democrat. Hah!). But it would be heartening indeed if the next time
accusations of racism are hurled against them, that Republicans would
grow a spine and quickly, thoroughly and - when circumstances demand
- quite loudly defend their honor, integrity and reputation.
Toogood Reports contributor and "Best of the Web" award-winning writer
Perry Drake is a professional journalist in Plainfield, Ill. He is a
great American conservative who writes with a unique perspective on the
issues of the day. Perry is married and has two children. You can email
him at pdrake4153@cs.com.

P.S. I'm 60 years old and I lived through 1950's and 1960's....retired from the military and been there and done that!
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
quote:
Originally posted by telltruth:
Sorry, for the misunderstanding. I didn't give any facts you say?! How about the following verifiable "Facts":

I'm starting to understand your version of "verifiable facts".

quote:
3.They have an elected former Klu Klan Klansman as a Democrat Senator from W.Virginia....was a member of the Klan until he was 40 years old.

The Democratic party doesn't elect anyone, the public elects. You're spinning rhetoric.

quote:
4.Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Maxine Waters, The Black Congressional Caucus, Tom Joyner and his Clowns, haven't said one word about this
Former Klansman Senior member Democrat of the Senate. Why??? Be cause he is a member of the Democratic Party!

How do you verify the embolden parts? Again, this is useless spin.

quote:
5.The Democrats nominated and elected a "Draftdodger" as Commander In Chief and President of the United States in the Person of Bill Clinton(1992-2000).

Again, the Democratic party doesn't elect anyone. The public does. And really, who cares that Clinton was a draft dodger? Can you really compare that, or anything else Clinton did wrong, to the lies and deceite coming out of the White House today? Get some perspective man.

quote:
7.The Democ(rat)ic Party destroyed the American Black Family....along with their allies Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and other national race
card throwers and "Overseers".

Now, you're absolutely going to have to "verify" this one.

First, please explain how the Black family has been destroyed. Then, explain how the Democratic Party is responsible. Then, explain what the "race card" has to do with anything.

quote:
8.The Democ(rat)ic Party and their Overseers equated the civil rights of FAGGOTS, MAGGOTS and SISSIES WITH THE CIVIL RIGHTS OF THE AMERICAN
BLACK STRUGGLE!

Now, your biases truly become clear. The above sentiment has been expressed before on this board. But, not in quite such a bigotted fashion. I'd ask you to verify the above statement, but there isn't really anything of substance there to verify.

quote:
10.The Democratic Party is more interested in regaining "Power" and subjecting clueless, mindless people in there web of "Leftwing
Non-sensical rhetoric over "National Security"!

Isn't that the same non-sensical rhetoric that got Bush re-elected in the first place?


Yeah, but, it was Democrats who elected him to the Office of the Senate....and that is people.

The so-called Rev. Jesse Jackson and company never said a word about this former Klansman....but they did against Senator Trent Lot.

Clinton is a Democrat and he was elected by Democrats which are the people.

!932-1933 the Democrat President Franklin D. Roosevelt put forth the New Deal and under that was the Welfare system....that's when Blacks switched political parties from Republican to Democrats. Democrat President Lydon Johnson with his Great Society Program put the icing on the cake for the Black family.

Sorry, but I am not into "political correctness" that was what they were called before the Democrats invented political correctness. You mean to tell me you haven't heard those people equate their problems with Black Civil Rights.

The USA was attacked Sir....that was an act of war.

How much easier it is to be critical than to be correct.
quote:
Originally posted by telltruth:
Yeah, but, it was Democrats who elected him to the Office of the Senate....and that is people.

You mean his constituants elected him to the Senate. So, the only thing I gather from that, is that his constituants are morons.

quote:
The so-called Rev. Jesse Jackson and company never said a word about this former Klansman....but they did against Senator Trent Lot.

I don't care much for Jackson. But, he doesn't make policy, so I don't have to care much about him either.

quote:
Clinton is a Democrat and he was elected by Democrats which are the people.

Okay.... so what?

quote:
!932-1933 the Democrat President Franklin D. Roosevelt put forth the New Deal and under that was the Welfare system....that's when Blacks switched political parties from Republican to Democrats. Democrat President Lydon Johnson with his Great Society Program put the icing on the cake for the Black family.

Before you even begin to explain how the Black family was destroyed, you have to convince me that it has been destroyed at all. I become very frustrated with people who throw around sentences like "this or that is destroying the Black family" without quantifying it in any way. I happen to come from a strong Black family that has survived "The New Deal" and the "Great Society Program" (whatever negative effect you think they had).

BTW, what damage do you think these programs did to Black families? Please give an example, rather than spin more rhetoric.

quote:
Sorry, but I am not into "political correctness" that was what they were called before the Democrats invented political correctness.

And why aren't you into political correctness? Is it beyond you to give anyone any respect at all?

quote:
You mean to tell me you haven't heard those people equate their problems with Black Civil Rights.

Yes, I have... but I don't see any problem with it. The Civil Rights Movement was about civil rights. Historically, African Americans have been the most oppressed, but they are not the only oppressed. Oppression is oppression. It is to the betterment of everyone to promote civil justice and equality for everyone. I may never understand how there can be an African American alive today that does not understand that. White folks have an excuse for ingorance of this concept... we do not.

quote:
The USA was attacked Sir....that was an act of war.

Oh, it's as simple as that is it? Well, I'm so glad you are here to straighten the whole thing out for me. Please continue...

Who attacked us?

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