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March 09, 2006, 12:34 p.m.

Black Like GOP

Will the Dems lose a reliable constituency this year?

This year, Democrats may lose their iron grip on the black vote. About 90 percent of black Americans vote Democrat, rain or shine. But a growing sense that Democrats take them for granted "” plus several attractive, high-level black Republican candidates who will fight for these votes "” could make November 2006 and 2008 fascinating.

For starters, President Bush's black support grew from 9 percent in 2000 to 11 percent in 2004. That is no landslide, but Bush's black vote improved 22 percent despite his being vilified by the media and Democrats for four long years.

In Ohio, President Bush's support among blacks grew from 9 percent in 2000 to 16 percent in 2004. Given his tight race against Senator John Kerry (D., Mass.), blacks essentially handed President Bush Ohio, and thus a second term. These generally socially conservative blacks showed up to vote to ban gay marriage. Enough voters also supported Bush, a same-sex marriage opponent, to secure him the Buckeye State.

Second, 2006 features well-known, impressive black Republican candidates. Maryland's Lt. Governor, Michael Steele, seeks a U.S. Senate seat this fall, as does Michigan's Keith Butler, a former Detroit city councilman. In Ohio, Secretary of State Ken Blackwell is running for governor. And in Pennsylvania, Republicans on February 11 nominated former Pittsburgh Steeler Lynn Swann as their gubernatorial nominee. Each of these charismatic, well-spoken, black Republicans has a decent shot at victory.

What about their campaign agendas? They all should promote free-market ideas that have helped and will help blacks voters, and remind them how Democrats routinely say, "No!" to such reforms.

On taxes, for instance, President Bush has reduced them every year in office, always over Democratic objections. The result? The economy grew 3.5 percent last year despite the war on terror, sky-high oil prices, and hurricanes Katrina, Rita, and Wilma. For those with lower incomes, the bottom tax rate is now 10 percent rather than 15 percent. Meanwhile, higher-level tax-rate reductions leave more money in black middle-class pockets.

At this writing, the unemployment rate is 4.7 percent, its lowest level since July 2001. The bad news is that black unemployment is 8.9 percent. The good news is that it is down from a 10-percent average under President Clinton.

Meanwhile, with white unemployment at 4.1 percent, there is a 4.8-percent gap between white and black joblessness. That gap averaged 5.5 percent under President Clinton and 6.9 percent over the last 30 years. So, despite howls of Democratic protests, President Bush's tax cuts have helped create the best black-employment picture in a generation.

On Social Security, President Bush tried to bridge the Dividend Divide, the nearly 11-1 asset-ownership gap between white and black households. Voluntary Personal Retirement Accounts would let black individuals and families build nest eggs and bequeath them to their loved ones. This is excellent for black males who, on average, die at age 67.8 after collecting from Social Security for less than a year, while average white males enjoy seven years of benefits. President Bush's proposed accounts offered an alternative to this mess, but Democrats wailed, and his plan died of rejection.

On education, President Clinton vetoed a voucher program for students in Washington, D.C.'s dismal, predominantly black government school system "” twice. President Bush, in contrast, signed that bill into law.

Imagine what would happen if the 2008 Republican presidential nominee could campaign on these issues in inner-city Baltimore, Detroit, Cleveland, and Philadelphia with fellow Republicans who have been elected statewide and also happen to be black.

In Pennsylvania, which Kerry won by just 128,000 votes, if, say, Rudy Giuliani could stump with Lynn Swann and swing 64,000 more votes than did President Bush, all things being equal, the Keystone State and its 21 electoral votes go GOP. If Swann and Ken Blackwell can double the black vote for their nominee from 10 percent to 20 percent, it's nearly impossible to see how Hillary Clinton wins with neither Pennsylvania nor Ohio.

The best way to get blacks to consider voting Republican is for GOP candidates to ask them this basic question: "What have the Democrats done for you lately?"

"” New York commentator Deroy Murdock is a columnist with the Scripps Howard News.

© MBM

Original Post

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quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
quote:
The best way to get blacks to consider voting Republican is for GOP candidates to ask them this basic question: "What have the Democrats done for you lately?"

And I respond with... "What have the Republicans ever done for me, and what do they think they're going to do for me in the future? Roll Eyes


Exactly! I asked a friend of mine (black wanna be conservative) that very question and you know what, he didn't know what in the hell to say. Then I started naming off the things that Democrats have done that have benefited blacks and he was in shock.
quote:
Originally posted by keylargo:
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
quote:
The best way to get blacks to consider voting Republican is for GOP candidates to ask them this basic question: "What have the Democrats done for you lately?"

And I respond with... "What have the Republicans ever done for me, and what do they think they're going to do for me in the future? Roll Eyes


Exactly! I asked a friend of mine (black wanna be conservative) that very question and you know what, he didn't know what in the hell to say. Then I started naming off the things that Democrats have done that have benefited blacks and he was in shock.

That's the funny thing about wanna be's...

They usually haven't done their homework.
The Republican Party was the first major political party that were openly against slavery.

The Republican Party fought for the emancipation of slavery.

President Abe Lincoln-Republican Prez freed the Slaves.

Civil Rights Acts of 1866 and 1875 was passed by Republicans.

Republicans passed the Civil Rights Acts of 1957 and 1960.

Republicans passed the Civil Rights Act of 1965
(Al Gore's daddy voted against it).

The Republican Party help found the NAACP

Prominent Republicans sponsored, funded, and financed the following:
Morehouse College
Howard University
Spelman College
Shaw Uniersity
Clark University
Samuel Houston College
Atlanta University

The above memtion was all opposed by the Democratic Party. Smile
quote:
Originally posted by telltruth:
The Republican Party was the first major political party that were openly against slavery.

The Republican Party fought for the emancipation of slavery.

President Abe Lincoln-Republican Prez freed the Slaves.

Civil Rights Acts of 1866 and 1875 was passed by Republicans.

Republicans passed the Civil Rights Acts of 1957 and 1960.

Republicans passed the Civil Rights Act of 1965
(Al Gore's daddy voted against it).

The Republican Party help found the NAACP

Prominent Republicans sponsored, funded, and financed the following:
Morehouse College
Howard University
Spelman College
Shaw Uniersity
Clark University
Samuel Houston College
Atlanta University

The above memtion was all opposed by the Democratic Party. Smile

I won't deny any of the above, Mr. Telltruth.

Now, if you would be so kind, please give me an example of something the Republican Party has done for me, during my lifetime, that would earn them my current, living, and breathing vote. Smile
quote:
The Republican Party was the first major political party that were openly against slavery.

The Republican Party fought for the emancipation of slavery.

President Abe Lincoln-Republican Prez freed the Slaves.

Civil Rights Acts of 1866 and 1875 was passed by Republicans.

Republicans passed the Civil Rights Acts of 1957 and 1960.

Republicans passed the Civil Rights Act of 1965
(Al Gore's daddy voted against it).

The Republican Party help found the NAACP

Prominent Republicans sponsored, funded, and financed the following:
Morehouse College
Howard University
Spelman College
Shaw Uniersity
Clark University
Samuel Houston College
Atlanta University

The above memtion was all opposed by the Democratic Party.
The Republican Party was the first major political party that were openly against slavery.

The Republican Party fought for the emancipation of slavery.

President Abe Lincoln-Republican Prez freed the Slaves.

Civil Rights Acts of 1866 and 1875 was passed by Republicans.

Republicans passed the Civil Rights Acts of 1957 and 1960.

Republicans passed the Civil Rights Act of 1965
(Al Gore's daddy voted against it).

The Republican Party help found the NAACP

Prominent Republicans sponsored, funded, and financed the following:
Morehouse College
Howard University
Spelman College
Shaw Uniersity
Clark University
Samuel Houston College
Atlanta University

The above memtion was all opposed by the Democratic Party.

TELLTRUTH----While this may or may not be true please don't be fooled brother. If you look at it's history you'll understand that this is not the same republican party as they were then. Republicans of today are the old Dixiecrates who as we all know were against civil rights ( this means you TellTruth). The party is one of the deep south mantality and have adopted the thinking of Jesse Helms, Strom Thurman, Trent Lot. Please know this is not the same party!!!
quote:
Originally posted by telltruth:
The Republican Party was the first major political party that were openly against slavery.

The Republican Party fought for the emancipation of slavery.

President Abe Lincoln-Republican Prez freed the Slaves.

Civil Rights Acts of 1866 and 1875 was passed by Republicans.

Republicans passed the Civil Rights Acts of 1957 and 1960.

Republicans passed the Civil Rights Act of 1965
(Al Gore's daddy voted against it).

The Republican Party help found the NAACP

Prominent Republicans sponsored, funded, and financed the following:
Morehouse College
Howard University
Spelman College
Shaw Uniersity
Clark University
Samuel Houston College
Atlanta University

The above memtion was all opposed by the Democratic Party. Smile


The Democrats of today are the Republicans of the pre-FDR, New Deal era. You know this. Those bedsheet-wearing, redneck Dixiecrats left the Democratic party after the New Deal to join the Republicans you see today. I guess they felt right at home with the Republikkkans.

Tell the truth, Mr. "Telltruth."
quote:
Originally posted by telltruth:
The Republican Party was the first major political party that were openly against slavery.

The Republican Party fought for the emancipation of slavery.

President Abe Lincoln-Republican Prez freed the Slaves.

Civil Rights Acts of 1866 and 1875 was passed by Republicans.

Republicans passed the Civil Rights Acts of 1957 and 1960.

Republicans passed the Civil Rights Act of 1965
(Al Gore's daddy voted against it).

The Republican Party help found the NAACP

Prominent Republicans sponsored, funded, and financed the following:
Morehouse College
Howard University
Spelman College
Shaw Uniersity
Clark University
Samuel Houston College
Atlanta University

The above memtion was all opposed by the Democratic Party. Smile


And [if you believe the Christian mythology of Eden] there once was a time when man [woman] was without sin. My, how times have changed.

Now Tell the Truth, Telltruth, You don't really believe that your argument holds any weight outside of the Republican National Committee Thinktank that first promoted the argument, do you?
In Ohio, President Bush's support among blacks grew from 9 percent in 2000 to 16 percent in 2004. Given his tight race against Senator John Kerry (D., Mass.), blacks essentially handed President Bush Ohio, and thus a second term. These generally socially conservative blacks showed up to vote to ban gay marriage. Enough voters also supported Bush, a same-sex marriage opponent, to secure him the Buckeye State.



MBM--- A lot of black folks to my surprise bought into the propaganda of the republican party. These people who essentially gave bush a second term got caught up in the none sense of Gay Marriage and other issues that doesn't really affect the black community. These people should be asking and voting to better educate their kids, the unemployment in our communities, homeless, how our kids are being herded into jails at alarming numbers. We let ourselves get side tracked by issues that don't affect us negatively from day to day. Who feels threaten by gay marriage? I don't know many blacks who are. We should vote on issues that matter to the masses. Black people shouldn't be so easily swaged by side shows. Vote for things that matter.

Also, If you believe all those positive things you mentioned regarding Bush and the repugs are true then I surely want to interest you in a bridge. Nothing these guys say or put forward is true or accurate. The say one thing but usually the opposite is true. We're winning in Iraq you know.......
quote:
Originally posted by alonzo:
MBM--- A lot of black folks to my surprise bought into the propaganda of the republican party. These people who essentially gave bush a second term got caught up in the none sense of Gay Marriage and other issues that doesn't really affect the black community. These people should be asking and voting to better educate their kids, the unemployment in our communities, homeless, how our kids are being herded into jails at alarming numbers. We let ourselves get side tracked by issues that don't affect us negatively from day to day. Who feels threaten by gay marriage? I don't know many blacks who are. We should vote on issues that matter to the masses. Black people shouldn't be so easily swaged by side shows. Vote for things that matter.

I absolutely agree. Homosexuals only represent 6% of the population. They are not a threat to anyone, in any way.

However, I do believe that the oppression of them is very significant. It is an accurate reflection of our values in this day and age, as well as our values throughout history.

We need to get over this... and focus on things that actually matter.

quote:
Also, If you believe all those positive things you mentioned regarding Bush and the repugs are true then I surely want to interest you in a bridge. Nothing these guys say or put forward is true or accurate. The say one thing but usually the opposite is true. We're winning in Iraq you know.......

I think you're projecting a little here. MBM posted an article written by someone else. There was no commentary. It's not fair to assume he agrees with the position.
why do we argue over the Democratic and Republican party. Neither has been helpful to the situation we as Africans in America face. One takes us for granted and other just takes us. We need to seriously start thinking about our political identification. Why keep accepting the 12am knock in the middle of the night. They promise and promise shyt but never deliver
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:

why do we argue over the Democratic and Republican party. Neither has been helpful to the situation we as Africans in America face. One takes us for granted and other just takes us. We need to seriously start thinking about our political identification. Why keep accepting the 12am knock in the middle of the night. They promise and promise shyt but never deliver


Brother, we live in a society that is controlled politically by the two parties. We can either choose to try to maximize our leverage and influence within that system, or we can choose other extra-political options to build a better life for ourselves. If you choose the latter, what would you suggest we do to move our community forward?
thats why so many people get frustrated with voting. That lesser of the two evils arguement, but we always end up with nothing but broken promises. I suggest we start our own party and vote our intrest. Sure our candidate may not win the presidency, but we could win some local elections and use that leverage to influence state and national elections.I just believe we have to something other than put all our faith in the dam Democratic or Republican party. To be honest the way politics is set up now, they way these two parties act is simply to perpetuate the same ole status quo. You basically have two elites , the Republican or conservative elites vs the liberal elites. Given this fact we have to start building from the grassroots level. I really believe we need a third party so that we can dictate our intrest and strategize with our best intrest at heart instead of being a sideshow agenda for the White liberal.
I'm sorry people, but I identify with neither Political Party Democratic or Republican. I only give you the the true "FACTS". On the contrary, what has the "democrats" done for Black people besides, invent the KKK, all the lynching from 1866 until the 1960's, blocking Civil Rights Acts since the 1800's and keep electing Senator Robert Byrd (Dem) a known KKK leader up until he was 40 years old and still serving in the Senate. I don't hear anything from any so called Black Leader. The Republicans have done nothing other than what I have memtioned....but the Democrats have done absolutely nothing unless you want to count the ghettos of New York city, Atlanta, Chicago, Los Angeles, Detroit, New Orleans etc. as a plus. No Hard feelings I hope-just giving the hard cold facts and not my opinion! Wink
quote:
Originally posted by telltruth:

No Hard feelings I hope-just giving the hard cold facts and not my opinion! Wink


Sorry - you explicitly misrepresent the facts when you compare 19th and early 20th century Democrats and Republicans with today's bunch. As has been established, the political affiliations of parties pretty much flip-flopped in the last century. The facts are that conservatives have been against anything remotely in favor of expanding rights and opportunity for African Americans. They have been expressely against any legal or social equality in this country. Conservatives have been the outspoken enemy of anyone who cares about equality and justice and human rights and environmental rights not just here in America, but around the world.

Those, my friend, are the facts. Why anyone of African descent, or not a part of the American 'landed elite', would support the current Republican conservative agenda is absolutely beyond me.
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
The facts are that conservatives have been against anything remotely in favor of expanding rights and opportunity for African Americans. They have been expressely against any legal or social equality in this country. Conservatives have been the outspoken enemy of anyone who cares about equality and justice and human rights and environmental rights not just here in America, but around the world.

And that has not changed once in 500 years. bsm
quote:
Originally posted by telltruth:
I'm sorry people, but I identify with neither Political Party Democratic or Republican. I only give you the the true "FACTS". On the contrary, what has the "democrats" done for Black people besides, invent the KKK, all the lynching from 1866 until the 1960's, blocking Civil Rights Acts since the 1800's and keep electing Senator Robert Byrd (Dem) a known KKK leader up until he was 40 years old and still serving in the Senate. I don't hear anything from any so called Black Leader. The Republicans have done nothing other than what I have memtioned....but the Democrats have done absolutely nothing unless you want to count the ghettos of New York city, Atlanta, Chicago, Los Angeles, Detroit, New Orleans etc. as a plus. No Hard feelings I hope-just giving the hard cold facts and not my opinion! Wink




Telltruth-----After reading this and your other post you probably need to change your name. "Telltruth" is not working for you anymore. You may not be a member of either party but your opinions are surely slanted to the right. Also brother, if you're not politically active then your opinions don't count and they don't matter. This will surely be the last post of yours I respond to. Next, you're arguing points you don't need to argue among black people. I'm a democrat and I have no love for Senator Byrd. As far as I'm concerned you can line him up with your other rightwing crazies. Please, continue to bash Byrd and any other dem with a simular background , we don't care. We understand a lot of democratics are no better then the repugs but as a people our best interest is with the demacratic party. Dems aren't close to being rightious or perfect but when you compare the two parties it's a no brainer. The ghettos are a reflection of our country and it's priorities and not just one political party. If you really cared about this you'd think more broadly and undertand our condition is because of the entire system and not one party or another. Anyway, you're arguments are weak so I don't think you have to worry about anyone getting mad or having hard feelings. We've always been "bashed" so a weak argument and personal opinion such as yours only makes me chuckle.
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:
why do we argue over the Democratic and Republican party. Neither has been helpful to the situation we as Africans in America face. One takes us for granted and other just takes us. We need to seriously start thinking about our political identification. Why keep accepting the 12am knock in the middle of the night. They promise and promise shyt but never deliver


I understand your frustration with the lesser of two evil argument. I really do.

However, although I recognize that neither party has any love for Black folk, one party consistently promotes policies that advocate social and economic justice [or, at least used to before this administration neutered them]; whereas, the other promotes social and economic exploitation.

That is why some of us unashamedly vote overwhelming Democrat. "A snowball is better than no ball."
The problem is. The Democratic party doesnt respect our vote. They never really address our issues and when something important goes down that affects African American community the White liberal is absent.But yet they always talking about how progressive they are. When you look at the actual record of the Democratic party as it relate to the black community post 1965 has been terrible at best.
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:

The problem is. The Democratic party doesnt respect our vote. They never really address our issues and when something important goes down that affects African American community the White liberal is absent.But yet they always talking about how progressive they are. When you look at the actual record of the Democratic party as it relate to the black community post 1965 has been terrible at best.


Your alternative?
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:

Are you gonna ever answer any questions? or are you just gonna answer every question with a question?


As far as I can tell, you've only asked one question - and I answered it. Perhaps if you availed yourself of the question mark (?) more - you might get more answers! bsm

And you?
Liberalism is paternalistic and racist, and conservatism is stagnant and impractical, pick your poison.

Liberal paternalism as represented by the Democratic party:

1) Seeks to erode our African Moral fiber by forcing us to party with individuals who represent moral positions abhorrent to us as Africans. It makes us passively accept post-modernism & relativism, and tells us to be effective we have to be aligned with other 'agenda's' that in many cases are polar opposites of our fundamental world view. One such agenda is the homosexual agenda.

2) It seeks to exploit our vote while not providing quid quo pro in terms of economic power, ownership, and independence. Since the Democrat ideal of social justices is rooted in civic equality and not economic equality its effect is to keep the average African American community of lower economic affluence and therefore less powerful than the average white community, while simultaneously attempting to enact wealth redistributing plans to programs to ensure civic equality but never creating BLACK POWER.

3) It is paternalistic and maintains White Man as God "save a po' black" approach to politics and policy, by attempting to use the government (their party) as a black family and black power surrogate. Their execution of policy and their perception of social justice is the only perception tolerated when decisions are made on "the problem of race". Those blacks who counter their solutions to race, such as nationalist, reparationist, etc. are castigated as "Going contrary to Dr. King" and "Radical", with the presumption that white derived liberalism ideology on race elevation is superior to black derived perspectives on race elevation.

4) It is racist for the same reason that it is mentioned as paternalistic in the last sentence of point 3. Implicit in liberal sentiment is the under laying belief that we blacks can not be entrusted to A) Independently derive solutions to control our communities B) Independently support our families C) Independently educate our children, without needing white participation and white governance to do so.

---

The worst thing that could occur to the democratic party as it pertains to securing the black vote is our holistic success as a people. Their whole paradigm in dealing with blacks is highlighting things that are not done for blacks in America, and then providing solutions in the form of programs that only they can provide for us (read that again and think about it). If we holistically have success, local community control, dynamic economic inner-cities, and a success for model for our own education, there is nothing left for them to ˜sell' us. That is why it is incumbent on them to keep us in a status quo state.

Liberal politics and policies aren't driven by blacks for blacks in an effort to create black power, but by whites for blacks in an effort to keep a black voting block and maintain THEIR power.
quote:
Originally posted by telltruth:
The Republican Party was the first major political party that were openly against slavery.

The Republican Party fought for the emancipation of slavery.

President Abe Lincoln-Republican Prez freed the Slaves.

Civil Rights Acts of 1866 and 1875 was passed by Republicans.

Republicans passed the Civil Rights Acts of 1957 and 1960.

Republicans passed the Civil Rights Act of 1965
(Al Gore's daddy voted against it).

The Republican Party help found the NAACP

Prominent Republicans sponsored, funded, and financed the following:
Morehouse College
Howard University
Spelman College
Shaw Uniersity
Clark University
Samuel Houston College
Atlanta University

The above memtion was all opposed by the Democratic Party. Smile


Again like Janet Jackson says, "What have you done for me lately?" You can bring up all of these facts, but what about things that are being done now? Are they still funding these groups and schools you mentioned? I can tell you the picture isn't so rosy on this side, and I'm 34.
Maybe its not so much the Republican/Democrat thing, but a white man obession with wealth and power?
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:
The problem is. The Democratic party doesnt respect our vote. They never really address our issues and when something important goes down that affects African American community the White liberal is absent.But yet they always talking about how progressive they are. When you look at the actual record of the Democratic party as it relate to the black community post 1965 has been terrible at best.


Agreed. But I think you've missed my point. My point is there are no organizations out there that address my [our] issues/interests of the Black community; but, unlike the republicans, the Democrats do address issues/interests that I have as a middle-class working stiff, that is a couple of paychecks or a major illness from homelessness. So absent a viable alternative, I will continue voting my [democratic] middle-class interests.

quote:
I mean I've posted quite a few times about building a independent black party so we can have an organization whose total mission is the advancement of the intrest of black people.Why cant we do this. What do you suggest we do , give some insight on how your ideas about better the situation for black people? Here is something different.


I view building an independent Black party on the national level, today ... right now ... as a romantic, but self-defeating strategy. [I'm assuming that you are talking about a Black party that will run Black candidates and will not consider forming alliances or supporting existing party candidates.]

I see that strategy as only working on the local/state-wide level, where Black folk have sufficient numbers to, if not elect representatives directly, have major influence in elections. That's to say, a Black party can win offices in a lot of precinct-wide races, in many city-wide races, in a few county-wide races; but in very few state-wide races. We just don't have the numbers.

Nationally, the republicans don't need, and frankly don't care about, the Black vote; but the democrats need the Black vote to win. IMHO, forming an independent Black party merely ensures that republicans will continue to win national elections.
I'd also like to add, anything that black people have gained is not because of a Republican or Democrat, but because of their own hardwork, perserverance and faith in a God. The only reason that the Civil Rights Act got passed in the first place, was because black people were seeing no end to the situation we were in and they were getting ready to take Washington D.C. down by marching on it and laying in the streets.
How ungrateful it sounds when we give the credit for the achievements of our ancestors to the Republicans or Democrats?
Tellthetruth, you are an older gentleman and you ought to know and do better.
"We hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal and are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable truths - among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

Dell - how does believing in words like the above translate into a paternalistic, racist agenda? I agree with you that there certainly is no monopoly on racism in the Republican party, but I do not believe that - by definition - the Dems are equally as "evil". While they are perhaps equally as racist in their core tendencies, at least there is the conceptual tension between those biases and the principles of freedom and civil rights which they also embrace. That tension obviously does not exist in conservatives; they are quite happy to be bigoted against anyone other than themselves.

It seems to me that we either play the game, and play it to our advantage, or resign ourselves to be marginalized forever. I, for one, have greater aspirations for me and my children than to lay down and be walked on by white America.
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:

The problem is. The Democratic party doesnt respect our vote. They never really address our issues and when something important goes down that affects African American community the White liberal is absent.But yet they always talking about how progressive they are. When you look at the actual record of the Democratic party as it relate to the black community post 1965 has been terrible at best.


Your alternative?


I know right? it sounds like the Republican machine speaking. In this day and age, I will choose a Democrat over a Republican. We have to look beyond color to understand how policies introduced by the Republicans hurt people of color. They really hurt all poor, working class Americans. From the cutting taxes for the wealthy and forcing the working class to carry the burden to the lack of support to public schools... the list goes on and on.
look at all of the policies proposed by Republicans and tell me which one benefits me as a working class American?
The 1960's I don't think is early 20th century or for that matter i9th century. And I thought I made it perfectly clear that I don't support either Political Party Democratic Or Republican. All I'm doing is presenting the "facts" and correcting falsehoods. Ignorance of history makes us "libel" to our own times.


"Since black politicians and the civil rights establishment preach victimhood to blacks, I'd prefer that they be more explicit when they appear in public fora. Were they to be so, saying racists are responsible for black illegitimacy, blacks preying on other blacks and black family breakdown, their victimhood message would be revealed as idiotic. But being so explicit is not as far-fetched as one might think"-Walter E. Williams.

Furthermore, I am an individual, I can think on my own, I take responsibility for my own actions, and I don't play the "I'm a victim game" either. Because I'm a Black American doesn't mean I have to think like the group. I know plenty of other successful Black Americans who think like that also.

Those who cannot remember the past, are bound to repeat it!
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:

The problem is. The Democratic party doesnt respect our vote. They never really address our issues and when something important goes down that affects African American community the White liberal is absent.But yet they always talking about how progressive they are. When you look at the actual record of the Democratic party as it relate to the black community post 1965 has been terrible at best.


You are so right Zakar, and if you wanted to see reality in the "real" New Orleans should have been a paradise since the Democratic Party ran the city for over 50 years.
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:
The problem is. The Democratic party doesnt respect our vote. They never really address our issues and when something important goes down that affects African American community the White liberal is absent.But yet they always talking about how progressive they are. When you look at the actual record of the Democratic party as it relate to the black community post 1965 has been terrible at best.

I'm not saying that Democrats are great but, if they didn't fight the Republicans, we would be living under an apartheid system ruled by a dictator. Do you really think that the Republicans appreciate Democracy?
quote:
Originally posted by telltruth:
The Republican Party was the first major political party that were openly against slavery.

The Republican Party fought for the emancipation of slavery.

President Abe Lincoln-Republican Prez freed the Slaves.

Civil Rights Acts of 1866 and 1875 was passed by Republicans.

Republicans passed the Civil Rights Acts of 1957 and 1960.

Republicans passed the Civil Rights Act of 1965
(Al Gore's daddy voted against it).

The Republican Party help found the NAACP

Prominent Republicans sponsored, funded, and financed the following:
Morehouse College
Howard University
Spelman College
Shaw Uniersity
Clark University
Samuel Houston College
Atlanta University

The above memtion was all opposed by the Democratic Party. Smile


While all this is true, this has little relevance today. The Republican Party of Lincoln is not the modern day GOP, today's GOP is the Party of Reagan.

The Radical Republicans (TAKE NOTE OF THE WORD "RADICAL") of Lincoln's day were a left-leaning party that supported democratic federalism, more workers' rights, more anti-trust laws, more government crackdown on corruption, government protection of workers, anti-slavery and anti-confederatism. The Party of Lincoln was basically a proto-Social Democrat party in today's terms.

The Southern Democratic party up until FDR supported heavier weight to States' Rights (read: support of state-protected slavery), more laissez-faire economic policies, and less anti-trust laws. They heavily appealed to Confederaes and later Dixiecrats. They were basically a right-wing populist party with Classical Liberal (Neoliberal/Libertarian) economic leanings.

The parties switched when FDR made the agenda of Northern Democrats (who were formally aligned with Radical Republicans) and Progressives the party platform of the Democratic Party. The Republican Party changed beginning with Eisenhower who started introducing more isolationism and protectoratism to party and became what it is today under Nixon culminating in Reagan.

The South had formerly always gone Democrat. They switched over to the Republican Party in the 1960's after the Democratic Party supported the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and a large majority of the modern-day Republican party's elder leaders were former Dixiecrats.


Hell, the Democrats and Republicans changed just from FDR to Nixon. Under FDR, the Democrats were mainly Social Democrats, Progressives and Keynesians. The Republicans were mainly conservative Keynesians and Paleoconservatives. Under Nixon, the Democrats were Neoliberals and the Republicans were Neoconservatives who supported aggressive anti-Communist foreign policy (they were formerly isolationist).
Man people make all types of excuses for the Democratic party, they have done nothing, and to just say they are better than Republicans just dont cut it anymore, they gonna have to anny up!! I was listening to Malcom's "Message to the Grassroots" and Ballot or the BUllet" and the things he spoke to eloquent about are still absolutely true today
As I [and Keylargo] stated before, I vote democrat, not because I believe that they have any love for, or even any respect for, the Black community; but rather, because the democrats promote policies that appeal to my sense of social and economic justice, more so than republican policies. No one has said or even implied that the democratic party is the be all and end all for Black people. So stop with the "strawman" arguments.

However:
quote:
I view building an independent Black party on the national level, today ... right now ... as a romantic, but self-defeating strategy. [I'm assuming that you are talking about a Black party that will run Black candidates and will not consider forming alliances or supporting existing party candidates.]

I see that strategy as only working on the local/state-wide level, where Black folk have sufficient numbers to, if not elect representatives directly, have major influence in elections. That's to say, a Black party can win offices in a lot of precinct-wide races, in many city-wide races, in a few county-wide races; but in very few state-wide races. We just don't have the numbers.

Nationally, the republicans don't need, and frankly don't care about, the Black vote; but the democrats need the Black vote to win. IMHO, forming an independent Black party at this time merely ensures that republicans will continue to win national elections.


edited to add "at this time."
so we continue to support Democrates screwing us because of what? if we dont win nationwide races ok we not winning them anyway, what have we gained we cant loose.The Republicans still won the election the still control both houses of congress, so what the hell have we gained from the Democratic party, where is the hell is the WHITE LIBERAL when we need them?
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
As I [and Keylargo] stated before, I vote democrat, not because I believe that they have any love for, or even any respect for, the Black community; but rather, because the democrats promote policies that appeal to my sense of social and economic justice, more so than republican policies. No one has said or even implied that the democratic party is the be all and end all for Black people. So stop with the "strawman" arguments.


I dunno, bro. I wouldn't vote for either party. The Democrats and the Republicans are essentially not too different. The Republicans are Neoconservatives and the Democrats are Neoliberals. Both of them support Neoliberal free-market Globalism. The Republicans favor a type of international "military Keynesianism" where as Democrats favor more low-key influence through globalism.

75-80% of Democrats in office voted for the War in Iraq as well. And let's not forget that under Bill Clinton, the US sided with Croatia over Serbia during the Balkan Conflict in the 90's. Croatia was NEO-FASCIST and Serbia was Socialist. So naturally, we supported the Fascists (just like we still support Fascist Neoliberal dictatorships in Latin-America).
quote:
I dunno, bro. I wouldn't vote for either party. The Democrats and the Republicans are essentially not too different. The Republicans are Neoconservatives and the Democrats are Neoliberals. Both of them support Neoliberal free-market Globalism. The Republicans favor a type of international "military Keynesianism" where as Democrats favor more low-key influence through globalism.


Okay, as usual you make a good point. However, I was speaking domestically, rather than globally.
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
Okay, as usual you make a good point. However, I was speaking domestically, rather than globally.


I dunno. Even domestically, the Democraps are just as bad as the Republicans. They vote for the same measures as the Republicans 80% of the time. Most of the Dems support Outsourcing and business executives voting themselves pay raises and laying off workers or docking their pay.
First of all, with the Black approval rating of Bush at only TWO PERCENT black people voting for Bush or Republicans is never going to happen.

Secondly, for this tom Deroy Murdock to mention Katrina in a statement favorable to Bush or Republicans is simply amazing, since "Katrina" is now a new curse word among blacks, especially concerning how Republicans, and ONLY Republicans have continued to abandon Black New Orleans to results of the storm.

Thirdly, how do you think the Republican Party got to where it is now? Because it's been infliltrated and turned inside out by the racist and immoral white evangelicals. I'm sure black people are smart enough to do the same to another major political party in order to better serve our interests, instead of going the self-defeating route and forming our own party.
quote:
Originally posted by ItAintEazy:
First of all, with the Black approval rating of Bush at only TWO PERCENT black people voting for Bush or Republicans is never going to happen.

Secondly, for this tom Deroy Murdock to mention Katrina in a statement favorable to Bush or Republicans is simply amazing, since "Katrina" is now a new curse word among blacks, especially concerning how Republicans, and ONLY Republicans have continued to abandon Black New Orleans to results of the storm.

Thirdly, how do you think the Republican Party got to where it is now? Because it's been infliltrated and turned inside out by the racist and immoral white evangelicals. I'm sure black people are smart enough to do the same to another major political party in order to better serve our interests, instead of going the self-defeating route and forming our own party.


Are you talking to me? If you are, in NO way do I support the Republican Party. They are a party of proto-Fascists.

However, I'd say the Dems are just Republican-lite. The Dems agree with the Repubs on most issues. When they do disagree, it is a mealy-mouthed, half-hearted disagreement.

Neither the Democratic or Republican Party is favorable towards Minorities. The Republicans want to limit Minorities from certain jobs and the Democrats have no problem with Minorities getting paid lesser wages for the same jobs.


It's sad to say, but look at Barack Obama's voting record. I don't know about Bush only having 2% of the Black vote, the last election showed more Blacks voting Republican than any time since pre-WWII times.
E.P.,

Okay, I see the problem. In the beginning, I made the following disclaimer:

quote:
However, although I recognize that neither party has any love for Black folk, one party consistently promotes policies that advocate social and economic justice [or, at least used to before this administration neutered them]; whereas, the other promotes social and economic exploitation.
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
E.P.,

Okay, I see the problem. In the beginning, I made the following disclaimer:

quote:
However, although I recognize that neither party has any love for Black folk, one party consistently promotes policies that advocate social and economic justice [or, at least used to before this administration neutered them]; whereas, the other promotes social and economic exploitation.


Well, that's fair to say.

My complaint with Dems is that they aren't the same party today as they were during the days of FDR and Carter. Most of their policies today are like a cross between Clinton's globalism and Eisenhower's economic philosophies. They aren't Social Democrats and Keynesians any more. They're a cross of Neoliberals and Paleoconservatives.
quote:
Originally posted by Empty Purnata:
Are you talking to me? If you are, in NO way do I support the Republican Party. They are a party of proto-Fascists.


No, no, just responding to the topic in general, although I do love the "proto-Fascist" label Big Grin

It's sad how detached the Democratic party is to black people, but again the alternative is much worse.

That 2 percent statistic was from an NBC poll done in October (I think) where they reported the black approval rating. Yes Bush may have gotten the better of the margin of error concerning black voters, but whatever boost he had is certainly gone today.
quote:
Furthermore, I am an individual, I can think on my own, I take responsibility for my own actions, and I don't play the "I'm a victim game" either. Because I'm a Black American doesn't mean I have to think like the group. I know plenty of other successful Black Americans who think like that also.


You don't have to think like "the group" but you do need to think. With some of the crazy things you're saying I have my suspicions that you're a black man. Reading how progressive most people here are I don't think anyone besides you would say we all think alike. All your post are accusations that I don't see anyone saying or suggesting. Please direct me to a posting where someone was crying victim hood or that racist are responsible for black illegitimacy or the family breakdown. I don't see anyone saying any of those things so you're in the wrong place if that's what you're looking for.
quote:
I don't see anyone saying any of those things so you're in the wrong place if that's what you're looking for.


Alonzo, I'm sure you've heard of the "strawman" argument; the favored debate tool of neo-cons everywhere. This construct frequently follows a Black neo-con announcing
quote:
I don't support either Political Party Democratic Or Republican.
And/or,
quote:
I am an individual, I can think on my own, I take responsibility for my own actions
while parroting lines directly from the Republican National Committee's Talking Points Memo [Negro Edition].
quote:
Originally posted by alonzo:
quote:
Originally posted by telltruth:
I'm sorry people, but I identify with neither Political Party Democratic or Republican. I only give you the the true "FACTS". On the contrary, what has the "democrats" done for Black people besides, invent the KKK, all the lynching from 1866 until the 1960's, blocking Civil Rights Acts since the 1800's Wink


Telltruth-----After reading this and your other post you probably need to change your name. "Telltruth" is not working for you anymore. You may not be a member of either party but your opinions are surely slanted to the right. Also brother, if you're not politically active then your opinions don't count and they don't matter. This will surely be the last post of yours I respond to. Next, you're arguing points you don't need to argue among black people. I'm a democrat and I have no love for Senator Byrd. As far as I'm concerned you can line him up with your other rightwing crazies. Please, continue to bash Byrd and any other dem with a simular background , we don't care. We understand a lot of democratics are no better then the repugs but as a people our best interest is with the demacratic party. Dems aren't close to being rightious or perfect but when you compare the two parties it's a no brainer. The ghettos are a reflection of our country and it's priorities and not just one political party. If you really cared about this you'd think more broadly and undertand our condition is because of the entire system and not one party or another. Anyway, you're arguments are weak so I don't think you have to worry about anyone getting mad or having hard feelings. We've always been "bashed" so a weak argument and personal opinion such as yours only makes me chuckle.


I take it from your post that because you and most people on this thread are Democrats I can't present facts that happened in history. And just because it goes against what you have been told you assume I'm a Republican Party Member and you have doubts about my race....for your info I'm a Black man, American, and christian and I am a member of the Constitution Party, (www.constitutionparty.com) but I vote independently.

I already told you that what I posted was not my opinion. Just bonifided "verifiable" facts. So, you and anyone else can take the "facts" I presented or leave it....doesn't matter to me. No one is making anyone read my "post". Why can't we just have a civil discussion and just civilly agree to disagree if it comes to that and not attack each other. Thank You.
quote:
Originally posted by telltruth:
quote:
Originally posted by alonzo:
quote:
Originally posted by telltruth:
I'm sorry people, but I identify with neither Political Party Democratic or Republican. I only give you the the true "FACTS". On the contrary, what has the "democrats" done for Black people besides, invent the KKK, all the lynching from 1866 until the 1960's, blocking Civil Rights Acts since the 1800's Wink


Telltruth-----After reading this and your other post you probably need to change your name. "Telltruth" is not working for you anymore. You may not be a member of either party but your opinions are surely slanted to the right. Also brother, if you're not politically active then your opinions don't count and they don't matter. This will surely be the last post of yours I respond to. Next, you're arguing points you don't need to argue among black people. I'm a democrat and I have no love for Senator Byrd. As far as I'm concerned you can line him up with your other rightwing crazies. Please, continue to bash Byrd and any other dem with a simular background , we don't care. We understand a lot of democratics are no better then the repugs but as a people our best interest is with the demacratic party. Dems aren't close to being rightious or perfect but when you compare the two parties it's a no brainer. The ghettos are a reflection of our country and it's priorities and not just one political party. If you really cared about this you'd think more broadly and undertand our condition is because of the entire system and not one party or another. Anyway, you're arguments are weak so I don't think you have to worry about anyone getting mad or having hard feelings. We've always been "bashed" so a weak argument and personal opinion such as yours only makes me chuckle.


I take it from your post that because you and most people on this thread are Democrats I can't present facts that happened in history. And just because it goes against what you have been told you assume I'm a Republican Party Member and you have doubts about my race....for your info I'm a Black man, American, and christian and I am a member of the Constitution Party, but I vote independently.

I already told you that what I posted was not my opinion. Just bonifided "verifiable" facts. So, you and anyone else can take the "facts" I presented or leave it....doesn't matter to me. No one is making anyone read my "post". Why can't we just have a civil discussion and just civilly agree to disagree if it comes to that and not attack each other. Thank You.


I have a question for you Telltruth. Do you think political parties tend to remain the same for the most part over decades and never change their party agenda? or do you believe that political parties tend to evolve over time?
quote:
Originally posted by telltruth:
for your info I'm a Black man, American, and christian and I am a member of the Constitution Party...


http://www.constitutionparty.com/

http://www.constitutionparty.com/party_platform.php

http://www.constitutionparty.com/mission_statement.php

http://www.constitutionparty.com/party_history.php

quote:
Welfare
God, who endows us with life, liberty, property, and the right to pursue happiness, also exhorts individuals to care for the needy, the sick, the homeless, the aged, and those who are otherwise unable to care for themselves.

America's welfare crisis is a government-induced crisis. Government social and cultural policies have undermined the work ethic, even as the government's economic and regulatory policies have undermined the ability of our citizens to obtain work.

Charity, and provision of welfare to those in need, is not a Constitutional responsibility of the federal government. Under no circumstances should the taxpayers of the United States be obligated, under penalty of law through forced taxation, to assume the cost of providing welfare for other citizens. Neither should taxpayers be indentured to subsidize welfare for persons who enter the United States illegally.

The message of Christian charity is fundamentally at odds with the concept of welfare maintenance as a right. In many cases, welfare provisions by the Federal government are not only misdirected, but morally destructive. It is the intended purpose of civil government to safeguard life, liberty and property - not to redistribute wealth. Such redistribution is contrary to the Biblical command against theft.

We encourage individuals, families, churches, civic groups and other private organizations, to fulfill their personal responsibility to help those in need.


sck sck sck
quote:
Originally posted by Empty Purnata:
quote:
Originally posted by telltruth:
for your info I'm a Black man, American, and christian and I am a member of the Constitution Party...


http://www.constitutionparty.com/

http://www.constitutionparty.com/party_platform.php

http://www.constitutionparty.com/mission_statement.php

http://www.constitutionparty.com/party_history.php

quote:
Welfare
God, who endows us with life, liberty, property, and the right to pursue happiness, also exhorts individuals to care for the needy, the sick, the homeless, the aged, and those who are otherwise unable to care for themselves.

America's welfare crisis is a government-induced crisis. Government social and cultural policies have undermined the work ethic, even as the government's economic and regulatory policies have undermined the ability of our citizens to obtain work.

Charity, and provision of welfare to those in need, is not a Constitutional responsibility of the federal government. Under no circumstances should the taxpayers of the United States be obligated, under penalty of law through forced taxation, to assume the cost of providing welfare for other citizens. Neither should taxpayers be indentured to subsidize welfare for persons who enter the United States illegally.

The message of Christian charity is fundamentally at odds with the concept of welfare maintenance as a right. In many cases, welfare provisions by the Federal government are not only misdirected, but morally destructive. It is the intended purpose of civil government to safeguard life, liberty and property - not to redistribute wealth. Such redistribution is contrary to the Biblical command against theft.

We encourage individuals, families, churches, civic groups and other private organizations, to fulfill their personal responsibility to help those in need.


sck sck sck


I see your point but let's not forget the so called Reconstruction or lack there of in the South. Something had to be done. The social policies like welfare and social security were a way, to help people trying to recover from the injustices they faced. I think the programs were well intended but produced unintended consequences.
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
quote:
The best way to get blacks to consider voting Republican is for GOP candidates to ask them this basic question: "What have the Democrats done for you lately?"

And I respond with... "What have the Republicans ever done for me, and what do they think they're going to do for me in the future? Roll Eyes


Well if the House Republicans stand firm on border security / illegal immigration enforcement / no amnesty till the 2008 race:

McCain won't win the Republican primary and someone with an R by their name will be running with the House position of some sort.

Probably be running against Hilary for the D's and I just don't see her galvanizing a lot of folks given the Senate's version of the illegal immigration bill.

R won't get a majority but even if they increase it to 20-30% on the illegal immigration issue it's not likely Hilary would win on the national level.

Or like a lot of people on the conservative side did in 2000 sat it out but came out because he talked the talk and walked the walked on judicial nominees. Quite a few people kinda tired of the 9th Circuit decisions came out primarily for that since the Supreme Court was up for grabs.

So it pretty much boils down I'd say if the House stands firm they will maintain control of that but perhaps not the Senate. Bush is pretty much a lame duck anyhow -- pissed off his base / opposition already hates him but 2008 will be interesting.

I'd say though that if the House caves you'd see the D's win all 3.
I have a question for you Telltruth. Do you think political parties tend to remain the same for the most part over decades and never change their party agenda? or do you believe that political parties tend to evolve over time?[/QUOTE]

Political Parties evolve over time, however, I truly believe whoever doesn't know the past must have little understanding of the present and no vision of the future. (Please understand that I am speaking in general).

www.constitutionparty.com
quote:
Originally posted by telltruth:

Political Parties evolve over time, however, I truly believe whoever doesn't know the past must have little understanding of the present and no vision of the future.


Respectfully, if you are aware that parties adjust political ideology than why did you talk about 19th century Republicans and Democrats as if they stood for the same thing that they do today?
quote:
I take it from your post that because you and most people on this thread are Democrats I can't present facts that happened in history. And just because it goes against what you have been told you assume I'm a Republican Party Member and you have doubts about my race....for your info I'm a Black man, American, and christian and I am a member of the Constitution Party, but I vote independently.

I already told you that what I posted was not my opinion. Just bonifided "verifiable" facts. So, you and anyone else can take the "facts" I presented or leave it....doesn't matter to me. No one is making anyone read my "post". Why can't we just have a civil discussion and just civilly agree to disagree if it comes to that and not attack each other. Thank You.


TellTruth, you're a funny dude. Don't take these post too personal, I'm just responding to your post and giving you the facts as I see them.
I have no problem with you presenting facts but I've yet to see facts you've presented. You talk a good game but you haven't presented any facts whatsoever. What I say is not based on what I've been told but rather I'm responding directly to what you write. I make my own conclusions based on what I know. Respectfully I'm not seeing any substance or facts to most of what you write. If you've presented facts on this thread please point those out to me. I'm a reasonable person and will gladly embrace facts but I honestly haven't seen any. I'll take your word that you're a black man but I made my comment because your post read like things I hear on Fox news and from far "right wing" white people I come across. I also respect the fact you vote independent but an independent candidate will not win any elections anytime soon so it seems you're wasting your time and vote. If you don't like either party and voting out of principal I can respect that but I'm a believer that you have to face reality and do what's in your best interest. Democrats who are far more sensible and fair than repugs could have surely used your vote and the votes of people like you in the last election. Had you voted for the greater good this country may not be in the shapes it's in. You're right, no one is making me read your post but if you put them here I'm going to read them and will respond if I like. No one is making you read my replies either and I don't get offended or upset by what you say so you shouldn't either. I disagree with almost everything you've written but that doesn't mean I'm not being civil. There are no hard feelings brother, I'm just giving my side of the story. Don't take it personally. Please copy and paste some of those facts you said you offered.
quote:
somebody tell me who in the Democratic party will address our issues as black people if they become President. These are the same cats who voted for NAFTA, now look at the results? We have no permanent friends or enemies just permenant intrest. Who looks out for the intrest of black people?


Zakar, very good question. The answer is in our hands. We first have to get mobilized and get out and vote in massive numbers. Once we make our voices heard by helping to elect a democrat then we hold his or her feet to the fire and forced them to do what's in the best interest of our people. We'll never get everything we want but we can get a lot. "The People" really do have the power but you have to be willing to make people uphold what they say. Notice how nervous our elected officials are getting because Hispanics are mobilized. This is what we have to do.
In my opinion both fucks us equally and neither uses a condom. During Clintons run what happend, more black men got locked up than ever before. NAFTA was passed, who benifits from NAFTA, Mexico and Big business, who lose, working class citizens of the nation. I havent seen anything the Democratic party has done for us since Johnson, and what he did was give acts that were already given to us in the late 1800's
quote:
Originally posted by ItAintEazy:
No, no, just responding to the topic in general, although I do love the "proto-Fascist" label Big Grin


Isn't it great? Big Grin I call 'em "proto-Fascist" because at this point in time, their beliefs are basically Fascism-lite. They meet at least 11 of the 14 points of Fascism.

quote:
It's sad how detached the Democratic party is to black people, but again the alternative is much worse.

That 2 percent statistic was from an NBC poll done in October (I think) where they reported the black approval rating. Yes Bush may have gotten the better of the margin of error concerning black voters, but whatever boost he had is certainly gone today.


I say we create our own consciousness and vanguard parties. fro
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:
Who looks out for the intrest of black people?

Black people look out for the interests of Black people.

A part of how we do that is with a clear understanding of which political party's policies do the least amount of damage to us.

exactly!

I'd like to know specifically what the black issues are that need to be addressed. I'd like to see a list and then line by line, I'd like us to compare the Republicans' agenda to the Democrats' agenda. Which agenda will be more suited to meet the needs of blacks?

I'll start the list:

Healthcare - (look at healthcare policies in the various states and look at the leadership that put those policies into place. then, look at it on a federal level)

Education- (again, look at the states and the leadership and compare overall)

Racial Profiling- how do you think Republicans feel about that?

I'm sure there are more.
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:
In my opinion both fucks us equally and neither uses a condom. During Clintons run what happend, more black men got locked up than ever before. NAFTA was passed, who benifits from NAFTA, Mexico and Big business, who lose, working class citizens of the nation. I havent seen anything the Democratic party has done for us since Johnson, and what he did was give acts that were already given to us in the late 1800's


so based on your analogy, I guess we should just not fuck.....but since we know, we can't not fuck, we must pick which one to do.


let's not forget, we have to negotiate with Republicans. It's hard to get things done when the two can't agree.

Also, Reagan's "war on drugs" is what contributed to the high rate of incarceration of black men. you can also blame the unequal judicial system and poor choices made by some men. You cannot blame Clinton for that.
quote:
Originally posted by keylargo:
Also, Reagan's "war on drugs" is what contributed to the high rate of incarceration of black men. you can also blame the unequal judicial system and poor choices made by some men. You cannot blame Clinton for that.

Very true.

Democrats often get blamed for programs that Republicans put in place. Government moves slowly. Often times, the results of Republican policies don't manifest fully until power has changed hands. It often takes a Democrat to come in and try to clean up the mess after the Republicans have spent far too much time screwing it up.

I actually feel sorry for the Democrat who has to clean up Bush's misdirected "War on Terror".
The Elites in the GOP are no worse than the elites in the Deomocratic party. I feel sorry for black peope who continue to put all our faith in the Democratic party when they end up doing no more for the poor than the Republicans. The one thing the Democrats did do a little in was with Unions but since theve sold out I fail to see anything worthwhile they offer us.Clinton passed that awful welfare reform bill also. But everyone has the right to be with any party they want to. All i say is why do we have to be loyal to the Democratic party, why not at the very least register independent and reserve the vote.
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:
The Elites in the GOP are no worse than the elites in the Deomocratic party. I feel sorry for black peope who continue to put all our faith in the Democratic party when they end up doing no more for the poor than the Republicans. The one thing the Democrats did do a little in was with Unions but since theve sold out I fail to see anything worthwhile they offer us.Clinton passed that awful welfare reform bill also. But everyone has the right to be with any party they want to. All i say is why do we have to be loyal to the Democratic party, why not at the very least register independent and reserve the vote.

just because I'm a registered Democrat does not mean I will not consider someone other than a Democrat. I really base my decisions on issues and where a particular candidate stands.
quote:
Originally posted by ZAKAR:

The Elites in the GOP are no worse than the elites in the Deomocratic party.


George Bush, Dick Cheney, and Karl Rove are lightyears worse for black folks than ANY Democrats - particularly the leaders including Howard Dean, Hillary Clinton, and John Kerry.
Last edited {1}
quote:
Originally posted by alonzo:
quote:
I take it from your post that because you and most people on this thread are Democrats I can't present facts that happened in history. And just because it goes against what you have been told you assume I'm a Republican Party Member and you have doubts about my race....for your info I'm a Black man, American, and christian and I am a member of the Constitution Party, but I vote independently.

I already told you that what I posted was not my opinion. Just bonifided "verifiable" facts. So, you and anyone else can take the "facts" I presented or leave it....doesn't matter to me. No one is making anyone read my "post". Why can't we just have a civil discussion and just civilly agree to disagree if it comes to that and not attack each other. Thank You.


TellTruth, you're a funny dude. Don't take these post too personal, I'm just responding to your post and giving you the facts as I see them.
I have no problem with you presenting facts but I've yet to see facts you've presented. You talk a good game but you haven't presented any facts whatsoever. What I say is not based on what I've been told but rather I'm responding directly to what you write. I make my own conclusions based on what I know. Respectfully I'm not seeing any substance or facts to most of what you write. If you've presented facts on this thread please point those out to me. I'm a reasonable person and will gladly embrace facts but I honestly haven't seen any. I'll take your word that you're a black man but I made my comment because your post read like things I hear on Fox news and from far "right wing" white people I come across. I also respect the fact you vote independent but an independent candidate will not win any elections anytime soon so it seems you're wasting your time and vote. If you don't like either party and voting out of principal I can respect that but I'm a believer that you have to face reality and do what's in your best interest. Democrats who are far more sensible and fair than repugs could have surely used your vote and the votes of people like you in the last election. Had you voted for the greater good this country may not be in the shapes it's in. You're right, no one is making me read your post but if you put them here I'm going to read them and will respond if I like. No one is making you read my replies either and I don't get offended or upset by what you say so you shouldn't either. I disagree with almost everything you've written but that doesn't mean I'm not being civil. There are no hard feelings brother, I'm just giving my side of the story. Don't take it personally. Please copy and paste some of those facts you said you offered.


Sorry, for the misunderstanding. I didn't give any facts you say?! How about the following verifiable "Facts":

1.The oldest political party in the USA is the Democratic Party 1792.
2.The Republican Party was founded in Michigan in 1854 by abolitionists.
3.They have an elected former Klu Klan Klansman as a Democrat Senator from W.Virginia....was a member of the Klan until he was 40 years old.
4.Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Maxine Waters, The Black Congressional Caucus, Tom Joyner and his Clowns, haven't said one word about this
Former Klansman Senior member Democrat of the Senate. Why??? Be cause he is a member of the Democratic Party!
5.The Democrats nominated and elected a "Draftdodger" as Commander In Chief and President of the United States in the Person of Bill Clinton(1992-2000).
6.The Democrats had been in Power for over a half century when they lost power in 1996....in those 50 years they had done nothing....and
every program implemented by these Democrat "Bandits" failed!
7.The Democ(rat)ic Party destroyed the American Black Family....along with their allies Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and other national race
card throwers and "Overseers".
8.The Democ(rat)ic Party and their Overseers equated the civil rights of FAGGOTS, MAGGOTS and SISSIES WITH THE CIVIL RIGHTS OF THE AMERICAN
BLACK STRUGGLE!
9.The Democ(rat)ic Party and their Black overseers Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton
did not condemn the FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON WHEN HE SENT OUR ARMED FORCES TO BOSENIA AND BOMDED AND KILLED THOUSANDS OF
CIVILIANS.....AND THIS COWARD DID NOT SEEK THE PERMISSION OF THE UNITED NATIONS OR FRANCE, GERMANY OR RUSSIA! Where was the outcry from the
Democratic Party???
10.The Democratic Party is more interested in regaining "Power" and subjecting clueless, mindless people in there web of "Leftwing
Non-sensical rhetoric over "National Security"!
11.Former President Jimmy Carter (A Democrat gave "AMNESTY" TO THE VIETNAM DRAFTDODGER(S)! IF IT WASN'T FOR THIS BILL CLINTON COULDN'T
BECOME PRESIDENT....CAUSE HE WOULD HAVE BEEN CLASSIFIED A CRIMINAL!
12.The town of Rosewood, Florida in 1923 was burned down by whites, and the county and state governments was ran by Democrats-many Blacks were slain and no charges filed. www.tfn.net/doc/rosewood.txt
13.The murder of Emmett Till by whites near the town of Drew, Mississippi county of Sunflower in 1955, and town, county and state governments all ran by Democrats-no charges filed until a Republican Governor was elected in last couple of years-nearly 50 years later!
14.Civil Rights Movement 1955-1968 www.watson.org/~lisa/blackhistory/civilrights-55-65/montbus.html
From Rosa Parks to MLK and Congressman John Lewis was beat up/stopped by the Democratic goverment(s) in Montgomery and Birmingham, Alabama.
15.The Civil Rights Act(s) of 1957 and 1965 was passed by the Republican Party- more Republicans voted for it than Democrats. Senator Everett Dirksen (R. IL) led the Charge....Al Gore's daddy then Senator of Tenn. and a Democrat voted against it!
16.Jimmy Carter the worst President and Democrat that ever been passed up the First Black Four Star General to be Chairman of Joint Chief of Staff in 1976 and didn't even propose MLK to be a holiday-two Republican Presidents did-Bush and Reagan. Jimmy Carter claimed he was good friend to MLK.
17.It was The Democratic Party that instituted the Black Codes and Jim Crow Laws.
18.The KKK was the terrorist arm of the Democratic Party from 1866-1960's.

I like to add this; "Our people have made the mistake of confusing the methods with the objectives. As long ae we agree on objectives, we should never fall out with each other just because we believe in different methods or tactics or strategy....We have to keep in mind at all times that we are not fighting for integration, nor are we fighting for separation. We are fighting for recognition as free humans in this society"-Malcolm X.
Last edited {1}
quote:
Originally posted by telltruth:
Sorry, for the misunderstanding. I didn't give any facts you say?! How about the following verifiable "Facts":

I'm starting to understand your version of "verifiable facts".

quote:
3.They have an elected former Klu Klan Klansman as a Democrat Senator from W.Virginia....was a member of the Klan until he was 40 years old.

The Democratic party doesn't elect anyone, the public elects. You're spinning rhetoric.

quote:
4.Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Maxine Waters, The Black Congressional Caucus, Tom Joyner and his Clowns, haven't said one word about this
Former Klansman Senior member Democrat of the Senate. Why??? Be cause he is a member of the Democratic Party!

How do you verify the embolden parts? Again, this is useless spin.

quote:
5.The Democrats nominated and elected a "Draftdodger" as Commander In Chief and President of the United States in the Person of Bill Clinton(1992-2000).

Again, the Democratic party doesn't elect anyone. The public does. And really, who cares that Clinton was a draft dodger? Can you really compare that, or anything else Clinton did wrong, to the lies and deceite coming out of the White House today? Get some perspective man.

quote:
7.The Democ(rat)ic Party destroyed the American Black Family....along with their allies Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and other national race
card throwers and "Overseers".

Now, you're absolutely going to have to "verify" this one.

First, please explain how the Black family has been destroyed. Then, explain how the Democratic Party is responsible. Then, explain what the "race card" has to do with anything.

quote:
8.The Democ(rat)ic Party and their Overseers equated the civil rights of FAGGOTS, MAGGOTS and SISSIES WITH THE CIVIL RIGHTS OF THE AMERICAN
BLACK STRUGGLE!

Now, your biases truly become clear. The above sentiment has been expressed before on this board. But, not in quite such a bigotted fashion. I'd ask you to verify the above statement, but there isn't really anything of substance there to verify.

quote:
10.The Democratic Party is more interested in regaining "Power" and subjecting clueless, mindless people in there web of "Leftwing
Non-sensical rhetoric over "National Security"!

Isn't that the same non-sensical rhetoric that got Bush re-elected in the first place?
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
TellTruth, if you believe the tripe you write, then you're scaring me.


You can call it tripe if want to....but, what I gave you is documented historical facts-And like I said it doesn't matter to me whether you believe it or not....you can get the facts right on your computer-just google it! Here is something else written by another Black man:

TRUTH ABOUT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY
From Toogood Reports

The Long, Sad, Violent History of Democrats' Racial Hatred for Blacks
BY: Perry Drake
May 2003

It has always seemed unnatural and unwise to me whenever I hear someone
who's been slandered by a particularly egregious lie reply that they're
not going to dignify that accusation with a response. For it has always
been crystal clear to me that whenever your honor, integrity and
reputation are called into question that you should be quick, thorough
and - when circumstances demand - quite loud in defense of them.
Otherwise, people will assume that the accusation must carry some weight
and the falsity levied against you just might end up sticking. That's
what has happened to the political party that I belong to - the
Republicans.

For decades the Party of Lincoln has been under almost
constant assault for being "racist" and "openly hostile" to blacks.
However, nothing could be further from the truth - but you would never
know it by the party's spineless, practically nonexistent defense of its
record on race and civil rights.

From the days of Lincoln until the present, blacks have had no better
friend, party-wise, than the Republicans. Since its inception in the
mid-19th century, the GOP has built an exemplary record on civil rights,
particularly if you want to use the Democrat Party as a comparison. The
party's first president, Abraham Lincoln, issued the Emancipation
Proclamation on Jan. 1, 1863, the height of the Civil War, squelching
any chance that the European powers of the day would intervene in the
conflict in favor of the Confederacy. With the stroke of his pen,
Lincoln destroyed the last real hope the Confederacy had for a victory.
Soon after the war ended, it was a Republican-controlled Congress that
rammed through the 13th, 14th and 15th Amendments to the Constitution
that, among other things, abolished slavery, guaranteed equal protection
and due process and addressed blacks' right to vote. In the late 19th
century, Democrat governors and Democrat-controlled state legislatures
in the South couldn't pass Jim Crow laws fast enough. Those Democrats
created a nearly century-long, legal racial caste system that relegated
blacks to the lowest educational, political, economic and social strata.
I have family members who grew up under Jim Crow. To hear them tell it,
it weren't no joke.

And let us not forget that during the same period it was Democrats
throughout the United States who organized and ran America's premier
terrorist organization - the Ku Klux Klan. And speaking of the Klan,
remember the great Democrat President Woodrow Wilson? After a screening
of D.W. Griffith's paean to the Ku Klux Klan, "Birth of a Nation,"
Wilson, turned-movie critic, said of the film: "It is like writing
history with lightning. And my only regret is that it is all so terribly
true."

Needless to say, the NAACP had a different outlook. After its viewing,
the civil rights organization was mortified to the point of launching a
nationwide protest in 1915 against the film. The group was equally
appalled by President Wilson's comments and it launched a public protest
against him.

Before we move on, one more thing about President Wilson. He was the
president who led our nation into WWI with the ringing declaration that
it was to make the world "safe for democracy." In Woodrow's mind,
though, "democracy" applied to everyone except those annoying little
dark-skinned people in America who are always clamoring for civil
rights. In 1913, Wilson introduced segregation into the federal
government.

Yes, dear readers, the man who is worshipped as the utmost "progressive"
(where and by who have you heard that term used lately?) of his time
allowed federal officials to segregate "toilets, cafeterias and work"
areas of various federal departments.
It was left to Wilson's successor, Republican Warren G. Harding to scrap
the segregation policy. And Warren G. didn't stop there. In 1922,
Harding delivered a bold speech in Birmingham, Ala., (A Democrat
stronghold that was later known by blacks as "Bombingham") in which he
called for black equality. Up to then, no U.S. president had ever spoken
so forcefully about civil rights.

Harding was elected in 1920. Funny thing about the Republican Party
platform that Harding ran under. It called for federal anti-lynching
legislation. Guess which party didn't? If you said Democrat, go to the
head of the line.

Moving on, in answer to the burgeoning civil rights movement in the
'50s, it was Democrat governors and Democrat-controlled state
legislatures in the South that placed the Confederate battle flag on
their state capitol flags. It's an issue that continues to inflame
racial passions even today.

In 1957, Orval Faubus, the governor of Arkansas, called out his state's
National Guard to prevent the integration of Central High School in
Little Rock. In response, President Dwight D. Eisenhower sent U.S.
troops to the city to escort nine frightened black teens into the school
past riotous mobs inflamed by Faubus' defiance of a federal court order.
Faubus was a Democrat. Eisenhower was a Republican.

On June 11, 1963, Alabama Gov. George Wallace stood in the doorway of
the University of Alabama to block its integration. Wallace was a
Democrat. Now, I grant you, John F. Kennedy was the Democrat president
who federalized the Alabama National Guard and ordered its units to the
university to force its doors open to black students. But it's not
generally known that the then-Sen. Kennedy - with an eye on the
Democrat presidential nomination for 1960 - voted against the Civil
Rights Act of 1957, the law that really got the ball rolling on federal
civil rights legislation.

And it was Kennedy's brother, Robert, who in 1964 assisted the FBI's
efforts to destroy Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. by approving the
wiretapping of the man considered the heart and soul of the civil rights
movement.

And to think at one time you could find in black homes across the nation
what I used to call the Black Person's Trinity: chintzy, black-velvet
portraits of JFK, RFK and Dr. King painted side by side. As far as other
important civil rights legislation, the 1964 Civil Rights Act and the
Voting Rights Act of 1965 would never have became law if not for
Republican senators and congressmen whose overwhelming support offset
extreme Democrat opposition.

Now honesty demands that I admit that I have never been in favor of
affirmative action programs. As a black man I find them demeaning, and
as an American, divisive. But that's an argument for another day.
However, the fact remains that it was President Nixon who implemented
the first affirmative action program with the Philadelphia Plan in the
late 1960s. The plan required government contractors to set goals and
timetables for hiring minorities. Nixon was a Republican. Sure, some
will say that it's all well and good to cite the historical record, but
what about now? What have the Republicans done of late? I begin by
pointing out that Democrats continue to demonstrate a curious affinity
for standing in schoolhouse doors, especially when black children are
involved.

But of late, Democrats are not trying to keep black children out, but
in. In public opinion polls on school choice, blacks overwhelmingly
favor vouchers to rescue their children from failing schools. No one
knows better the damage that poor schools can do to their children's
future and communities than blacks. Republicans are in favor of school
choice. Democrats aren't.
Also in more contemporary times, President Bush appointed two blacks to
the highest positions in government ever occupied by blacks in America.
Today, national security adviser Condoleezza Rice and Secretary of State
Colin Powell are very powerful, influential members of the Bush
administration. Powell, in fact, is fourth in the succession line for
the presidency.

Oh, by the way, do you know who is third in line? Sen. Robert Byrd of
West Virginia. Old "Sheets" himself. The same Byrd of the "white
niggers" comments on March 5, 2001, and who was a member of the KKK. And
Sen. Byrd was not just any old member. No, sir. He was a "grand kleagle"
- a recruiter!

Does anyone remember the late war with Iraq? It lasted about a minute
but you may have had a chance to notice that the vice chief of
operations at Central Command was a brotha - Army Brig. Gen. Vincent
Brooks.

And let's not let the "fair and free" press off the hook. Back when Jim
Crow and segregation were "the law of the land" in the South, the press
served as cheerleaders for all those kind, compassionate Democrats as
they lovingly lynched black people by the hundreds on a yearly basis.
Small wonder that the press behaved as badly as it did, though. The
people who ran those papers, which proudly featured the brutalized and
desecrated bodies of black lynching victims on their front pages quite
frequently, were all Democrats.

Today, whenever a Republican says anything that can be twisted by
Democrats and race hustlers to smack the least bit of racism, the press
is quick to pounce on him like Jesse Jackson on a bag of stolen federal
dollars.

The hypocrisy of the press on matters of race is appalling. Just take a
walk into your average newsroom and tell me what you see? Wait, I'll
save you the trip - a sea of white faces and sprinkled here and there,
a black face or two. Or better still, tune in to any one of the numerous
weekly Sunday news shows and what you'll find is overwhelming white. Now
here's a homework assignment - what political party do you think most
of the members of the press belong to? Here's a hint - Democrat. I
need not end here. I could go on all day citing example after example on
this matter (Does the name Bull Connor ring a bell, for instance? A
Democrat. Hah!). But it would be heartening indeed if the next time
accusations of racism are hurled against them, that Republicans would
grow a spine and quickly, thoroughly and - when circumstances demand
- quite loudly defend their honor, integrity and reputation.
Toogood Reports contributor and "Best of the Web" award-winning writer
Perry Drake is a professional journalist in Plainfield, Ill. He is a
great American conservative who writes with a unique perspective on the
issues of the day. Perry is married and has two children. You can email
him at pdrake4153@cs.com.

P.S. I'm 60 years old and I lived through 1950's and 1960's....retired from the military and been there and done that!
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
quote:
Originally posted by telltruth:
Sorry, for the misunderstanding. I didn't give any facts you say?! How about the following verifiable "Facts":

I'm starting to understand your version of "verifiable facts".

quote:
3.They have an elected former Klu Klan Klansman as a Democrat Senator from W.Virginia....was a member of the Klan until he was 40 years old.

The Democratic party doesn't elect anyone, the public elects. You're spinning rhetoric.

quote:
4.Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Maxine Waters, The Black Congressional Caucus, Tom Joyner and his Clowns, haven't said one word about this
Former Klansman Senior member Democrat of the Senate. Why??? Be cause he is a member of the Democratic Party!

How do you verify the embolden parts? Again, this is useless spin.

quote:
5.The Democrats nominated and elected a "Draftdodger" as Commander In Chief and President of the United States in the Person of Bill Clinton(1992-2000).

Again, the Democratic party doesn't elect anyone. The public does. And really, who cares that Clinton was a draft dodger? Can you really compare that, or anything else Clinton did wrong, to the lies and deceite coming out of the White House today? Get some perspective man.

quote:
7.The Democ(rat)ic Party destroyed the American Black Family....along with their allies Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and other national race
card throwers and "Overseers".

Now, you're absolutely going to have to "verify" this one.

First, please explain how the Black family has been destroyed. Then, explain how the Democratic Party is responsible. Then, explain what the "race card" has to do with anything.

quote:
8.The Democ(rat)ic Party and their Overseers equated the civil rights of FAGGOTS, MAGGOTS and SISSIES WITH THE CIVIL RIGHTS OF THE AMERICAN
BLACK STRUGGLE!

Now, your biases truly become clear. The above sentiment has been expressed before on this board. But, not in quite such a bigotted fashion. I'd ask you to verify the above statement, but there isn't really anything of substance there to verify.

quote:
10.The Democratic Party is more interested in regaining "Power" and subjecting clueless, mindless people in there web of "Leftwing
Non-sensical rhetoric over "National Security"!

Isn't that the same non-sensical rhetoric that got Bush re-elected in the first place?


Yeah, but, it was Democrats who elected him to the Office of the Senate....and that is people.

The so-called Rev. Jesse Jackson and company never said a word about this former Klansman....but they did against Senator Trent Lot.

Clinton is a Democrat and he was elected by Democrats which are the people.

!932-1933 the Democrat President Franklin D. Roosevelt put forth the New Deal and under that was the Welfare system....that's when Blacks switched political parties from Republican to Democrats. Democrat President Lydon Johnson with his Great Society Program put the icing on the cake for the Black family.

Sorry, but I am not into "political correctness" that was what they were called before the Democrats invented political correctness. You mean to tell me you haven't heard those people equate their problems with Black Civil Rights.

The USA was attacked Sir....that was an act of war.

How much easier it is to be critical than to be correct.
quote:
Originally posted by telltruth:
Yeah, but, it was Democrats who elected him to the Office of the Senate....and that is people.

You mean his constituants elected him to the Senate. So, the only thing I gather from that, is that his constituants are morons.

quote:
The so-called Rev. Jesse Jackson and company never said a word about this former Klansman....but they did against Senator Trent Lot.

I don't care much for Jackson. But, he doesn't make policy, so I don't have to care much about him either.

quote:
Clinton is a Democrat and he was elected by Democrats which are the people.

Okay.... so what?

quote:
!932-1933 the Democrat President Franklin D. Roosevelt put forth the New Deal and under that was the Welfare system....that's when Blacks switched political parties from Republican to Democrats. Democrat President Lydon Johnson with his Great Society Program put the icing on the cake for the Black family.

Before you even begin to explain how the Black family was destroyed, you have to convince me that it has been destroyed at all. I become very frustrated with people who throw around sentences like "this or that is destroying the Black family" without quantifying it in any way. I happen to come from a strong Black family that has survived "The New Deal" and the "Great Society Program" (whatever negative effect you think they had).

BTW, what damage do you think these programs did to Black families? Please give an example, rather than spin more rhetoric.

quote:
Sorry, but I am not into "political correctness" that was what they were called before the Democrats invented political correctness.

And why aren't you into political correctness? Is it beyond you to give anyone any respect at all?

quote:
You mean to tell me you haven't heard those people equate their problems with Black Civil Rights.

Yes, I have... but I don't see any problem with it. The Civil Rights Movement was about civil rights. Historically, African Americans have been the most oppressed, but they are not the only oppressed. Oppression is oppression. It is to the betterment of everyone to promote civil justice and equality for everyone. I may never understand how there can be an African American alive today that does not understand that. White folks have an excuse for ingorance of this concept... we do not.

quote:
The USA was attacked Sir....that was an act of war.

Oh, it's as simple as that is it? Well, I'm so glad you are here to straighten the whole thing out for me. Please continue...

Who attacked us?
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
quote:
Originally posted by telltruth:
Yeah, but, it was Democrats who elected him to the Office of the Senate....and that is people.

You mean his constituants elected him to the Senate. So, the only thing I gather from that, is that his constituants are morons.

quote:
The so-called Rev. Jesse Jackson and company never said a word about this former Klansman....but they did against Senator Trent Lot.

I don't care much for Jackson. But, he doesn't make policy, so I don't have to care much about him either.

quote:
Clinton is a Democrat and he was elected by Democrats which are the people.

Okay.... so what?

quote:
!932-1933 the Democrat President Franklin D. Roosevelt put forth the New Deal and under that was the Welfare system....that's when Blacks switched political parties from Republican to Democrats. Democrat President Lydon Johnson with his Great Society Program put the icing on the cake for the Black family.

Before you even begin to explain how the Black family was destroyed, you have to convince me that it has been destroyed at all. I become very frustrated with people who throw around sentences like "this or that is destroying the Black family" without quantifying it in any way. I happen to come from a strong Black family that has survived "The New Deal" and the "Great Society Program" (whatever negative effect you think they had).

BTW, what damage do you think these programs did to Black families? Please give an example, rather than spin more rhetoric.

quote:
Sorry, but I am not into "political correctness" that was what they were called before the Democrats invented political correctness.

And why aren't you into political correctness? Is it beyond you to give anyone any respect at all?

quote:
You mean to tell me you haven't heard those people equate their problems with Black Civil Rights.

Yes, I have... but I don't see any problem with it. The Civil Rights Movement was about civil rights. Historically, African Americans have been the most oppressed, but they are not the only oppressed. Oppression is oppression. It is to the betterment of everyone to promote civil justice and equality for everyone. I may never understand how there can be an African American alive today that does not understand that. White folks have an excuse for ingorance of this concept... we do not.

quote:
The USA was attacked Sir....that was an act of war.

Oh, it's as simple as that is it? Well, I'm so glad you are here to straighten the whole thing out for me. Please continue...

Who attacked us?


Here is one of your greatest Black leftwing liberals William Raspberry writing in one of the greatest leftwing newspapers the Washington Post on the subject of Black families www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/24/AR2005072401115.html

Bill Cosby on the Black Family fatherhood.about.com/b/a/097326.htm

I have respect for those kinds of people as long as they don't step on my toes. I see that you feel that those kinds of people have a right to equate their struggle with the Black struggle-Ok if that is the way you feel....you are entitled to your own opinion and I have mine.

Why the USA is in the War Against Terror:

Oct 1983 Marine Barracks Beirut Lebanon 243 Killed

Dec 1988 Pan Am Flt 103 Lockerbie Scotland 244 Killed

Feb 1993 World Trade Center NYC 6 Killed

Jun 1996 Khobar Towers Saudia Arabia 19 Killed

Aug 1998 US Embassies Kenya/Tanzania 224 Killed

Oct 2000 USS Cole Yemen 17 Killed

Sep 2001 World Trade Center NYC 3000+ Killed
Pentagon Washington DC
United Airlines Flt 93

It would be aginst all nature for all the Negroes to be either at the bottom, top, or in between.... We will go where the internal drive carries us like everybody else. It is up to the individual-Zora Neale Hurston

telltruth
quote:
Originally posted by telltruth:
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
quote:
Originally posted by telltruth:
The USA was attacked Sir....that was an act of war.

Oh, it's as simple as that is it? Well, I'm so glad you are here to straighten the whole thing out for me. Please continue...

Who attacked us?



Why the USA is in the War Against Terror:

Oct 1983 Marine Barracks Beirut Lebanon 243 Killed

Dec 1988 Pan Am Flt 103 Lockerbie Scotland 244 Killed

Feb 1993 World Trade Center NYC 6 Killed

Jun 1996 Khobar Towers Saudia Arabia 19 Killed

Aug 1998 US Embassies Kenya/Tanzania 224 Killed

Oct 2000 USS Cole Yemen 17 Killed

Sep 2001 World Trade Center NYC 3000+ Killed
Pentagon Washington DC
United Airlines Flt 93

telltruth

Yes... I'm quite familiar with the reasons for the U.S. being in the "War of Terror".

Now, please answer my question... Who attacked us?
quote:
You can call it tripe if want to....but, what I gave you is documented historical facts-And like I said it doesn't matter to me whether you believe it or not....you can get the facts right on your computer-just google it!


Okay, yes, it is fact that the democratic party of 50 years ago is more akin to the Republican party of today. SO WHAT? We are living in the today.

People change, parties change, agenda change.
quote:
Originally posted by Empty Purnata:
quote:
Originally posted by telltruth:
The Republican Party was the first major political party that were openly against slavery.

The Republican Party fought for the emancipation of slavery.

President Abe Lincoln-Republican Prez freed the Slaves.

Civil Rights Acts of 1866 and 1875 was passed by Republicans.

Republicans passed the Civil Rights Acts of 1957 and 1960.

Republicans passed the Civil Rights Act of 1965
(Al Gore's daddy voted against it).

The Republican Party help found the NAACP

Prominent Republicans sponsored, funded, and financed the following:
Morehouse College
Howard University
Spelman College
Shaw Uniersity
Clark University
Samuel Houston College
Atlanta University

The above memtion was all opposed by the Democratic Party. Smile


While all this is true, this has little relevance today. The Republican Party of Lincoln is not the modern day GOP, today's GOP is the Party of Reagan.

The Radical Republicans (TAKE NOTE OF THE WORD "RADICAL") of Lincoln's day were a left-leaning party that supported democratic federalism, more workers' rights, more anti-trust laws, more government crackdown on corruption, government protection of workers, anti-slavery and anti-confederatism. The Party of Lincoln was basically a proto-Social Democrat party in today's terms.

The Southern Democratic party up until FDR supported heavier weight to States' Rights (read: support of state-protected slavery), more laissez-faire economic policies, and less anti-trust laws. They heavily appealed to Confederaes and later Dixiecrats. They were basically a right-wing populist party with Classical Liberal (Neoliberal/Libertarian) economic leanings.

The parties switched when FDR made the agenda of Northern Democrats (who were formally aligned with Radical Republicans) and Progressives the party platform of the Democratic Party. The Republican Party changed beginning with Eisenhower who started introducing more isolationism and protectoratism to party and became what it is today under Nixon culminating in Reagan.

The South had formerly always gone Democrat. They switched over to the Republican Party in the 1960's after the Democratic Party supported the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and a large majority of the modern-day Republican party's elder leaders were former Dixiecrats.


Hell, the Democrats and Republicans changed just from FDR to Nixon. Under FDR, the Democrats were mainly Social Democrats, Progressives and Keynesians. The Republicans were mainly conservative Keynesians and Paleoconservatives. Under Nixon, the Democrats were Neoliberals and the Republicans were Neoconservatives who supported aggressive anti-Communist foreign policy (they were formerly isolationist).


And let's not forget when Reagan first ran his campaign in 1980, he went to Philadelphia, Mississippi. He could've went to ANY city in the South: Atlanta, Jacksonville, Nashville, MIami, Charlotte, San Antonio...

But no. He had to go to the town, where it's only claim to fame (or infamy) is that Philadelphia, MS is the town where Goodwin, Schwerner and Cheney, the three civil rights workers, were brutally killed trying to register black voters.

Where were the Republicans when the South were lynching us between the Civil War and Civil Rights? Republicans haven't done a damn thing since Reconstruction. In fact, it was a Republican President, Rutherford B. Hayes, was the one who ended Reconstruction, which gave black folks in the south, if not in the entire country, another century of post-slavery, refried hell oppression.

I swear telltruth, I don't know how in the HELL, black men your age (Elder, Hamblin, etc.) who were alive to see that crap, and STILL be naive.
quote:
I swear telltruth, I don't know how in the HELL, black men your age (Elder, Hamblin, etc.) who were alive to see that crap, and STILL be naive.


Huey, you're being very kind if you think TellTruth is only naive. He's surely not who he say he is because no black man can be that damn --------. I'll let you guys fill in the blank.

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