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Black Coalition Announces Gay Marriage Support



The National Black Justice Coalition Monday announced a nationwide campaign to generate black support for same-sex marriage and to fight against the recently proposed Federal Marriage Amendment.

The coalition is an ad hoc group of black LGBT community leaders, public figures and activists who have come together to fight against discrimination in the African American community.

Speaking at a Washington press conference, leaders of the group vowed to engage all major national black political leaders and civil rights leaders and many of the nation's black religious leaders to support their campaign.

The group also called on all black civil rights organizations and political leaders to take a strong position against the Federal Marriage Amendment.

"The right-wing fired the first shots in this battle, but today we fire back," said Coalition member Donna Payne.

"We will not allow the out-of-touch radical right to divide the black community on this issue," she added.

The coalition has begun raising $100,000 for a targeted ad campaign in the black media, and intends to developing a new website to counter right-wing misinformation about blacks and same-sex marriage.

The coalition also announced the support of Coretta Scott King, Congressman John Lewis, Ambassador Carol Moseley Braun, Rev. Al Sharpton, Whoopi Goldberg and several other key African American public figures who have come out in favor of same-sex marriage. The group said it plans to announce major new supporters in the coming months.

"African Americans support civil rights for all Americans," said writer and coalition member Keith Boykin, "and our judgment will not be clouded by the smoke and mirrors of a few vocal opponents."

http://www.ebonylesbigay.org/article1074.html

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Do you have some Gay agenda Ricardo that you are trying to force down our throats? You are beginning to remind me of a snake, albeit a non poisonous one but a snake none the less. You come under the guise of agreement on many issues facing the Black man and woman but you are simultaneously trying to legitimize a lifestyle most Black men and women abhor and believe stem from an abnormality in most of those who take part in this lifestyle. The struggle gay men and women are engaged in is not equal to or related to the struggle that Black men and women are engaged in. The gay community and supporters of the gay community like you are polarizing this issue as an issue of the right wing republicans thus by default trying to make this an issue in the mind and hearts of those who are against the right wing republicans.

While homosexuality very well may be an abnormality a man or woman can be born with, it is an abnormality none the less. Anytime you have a human being that is born physically a man and biologically a man but is attracted to men, you can not believe this is normal. We are talking simple science and nature here no religion involved. Men are the natural mate of women and women are the natural mate of men. In order for the gay struggle to be equal to the struggle of Black men and women there have to be an abnormality in being Black and there is no such thing. It appears that even some of the Black folk on this board in their haste have assumed a position that equates the gay struggle to that of the Black struggle and nothing can be further from the truth. I swear everyday it appear Black folk who believe in this countries political process is becoming as desperate as the democratic party is right now and are doing every thing in their power to stop the republicans from staying in power even if it mean compromises in places we have never compromised. I will bet if you check the record of this Coalition of Black so called community leaders you will find that they have never stood where they are standing now and are merely doing it out of desperation, which is as bad as Black men and women being a republican. .

-------------------------
"We got to organize ourselves, We got to mobilize and there can't be no confusion in our collective solution, If not for ourselves, then for our kids, because we know who our enemy is!"

DPZ "for the hood"

More to come later!

Your Brother Faheem

[This message was edited by Faheem on December 12, 2003 at 11:34 PM.]
ricardomath why don't you come out and declare you are gay. I really don't get your mentality in this area. You are on a black website constantly talking about a pet hate of black people - homosexuality. I hope you don't do this in real life because if you do I can assure you the consequencies would be a lesson well learned.

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quote:
Originally posted by henry38:
ricardomath why don't you come out and declare you are gay.


Mainly because I am straight. winkgrin But if I were gay, or bisexual for that matter, I would have no qualms in declaring it, and I would not be in the least hesitant and/or embaressed in doing so. thumbsup

quote:
I really don't get your mentality in this area. You are on a black website constantly talking about a pet hate of black people - homosexuality. I hope you don't do this in real life because if you do I can assure you the consequencies would be a lesson well learned.


I have done this, and continue to do this in real life all the time, in addition to posting about the issue on numerous internet bullitin boards and forums, including this one.

It is one of a number of issues that I have been involved in sporatically since the mid 1970s, when we attempted to get a city ordinance passed here in Ames banning housing discrimination on the basis of age, marital status, and sexual orientation (an attempt that failed for lack of a second, and for which the couragous city council member that proposed it lost in his reelection bid, but which eventually passed unanimously in the 1980s).

Later, in conjunction with the 1987 Gay Rights March on Washington, on the heels of the 1986 Bowers v Hardwick decision by the Supremes, I was arrested, along with 480 others, in a nonviolent civil disobediance on the steps of the US Supreme Court, and spent the next few days in the DC jail. Now, 16 years later, in 2003, the Supremes overturned Bowers v Hardwick in Lawrence v Texas.

In fact, I am quite pleased with how things have been progressing lately, and fully expect to see much progress on the issue over the next few years. Smile

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quote:
Originally posted by ricardomath:
I have done this, and continue to do this in real life all the time, in addition to posting about the issue on numerous internet bullitin boards and forums, including this one.
Why Ricardo why are you so much in favour of gay people? You are not being consistent. On one hand you post information about animals that are in danger of being wiped out then in the same breath you are in full support of an abnormal behaviour that threatens the human race. Think about it if animals practised gay sex it would not need human help to wipe them out. That being the case you should be against this abnormal behaviour in humans as you know the consequencies if things get out of hand.

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quote:
Originally posted by henry38:
quote:
Originally posted by ricardomath:
I have done this, and continue to do this in real life all the time, in addition to posting about the issue on numerous internet bullitin boards and forums, including this one.
Why Ricardo _why_ are you so much in favour of gay people? You are not being consistent. On one hand you post information about animals that are in danger of being wiped out then in the same breath you are in full support of an abnormal behaviour that threatens the human race. Think about it if animals practised gay sex it would not need human help to wipe them out. That being the case you should be against this abnormal behaviour in humans as you know the consequencies if things get out of hand.



huh??? Confused

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quote:
Originally posted by ricardomath:

"We will not allow the out-of-touch radical right to divide the black community on this issue," she added.




I don't share the anti-gay hostility so many on this board express, but I do find this "coalition" to be pretty ridiculous. If I were gay, before I call somebody else "out-of-touch," I would make sure that I wasn't running around acting like same-sex marriage is a more important issue than stemming the dangers of the DL-culture and the spike in HIV-infection among sexually active gay black males.
quote:
Originally posted by ricardomath:
quote:
Originally posted by henry38:
quote:
Originally posted by ricardomath:
I have done this, and continue to do this in real life all the time, in addition to posting about the issue on numerous internet bullitin boards and forums, including this one.
Why Ricardo _why_ are you so much in favour of gay people? You are not being consistent. On one hand you post information about animals that are in danger of being wiped out then in the same breath you are in full support of an abnormal behaviour that threatens the human race. Think about it if animals practised gay sex it would not need human help to wipe them out. That being the case you should be against this abnormal behaviour in humans as you know the consequencies if things get out of hand.



huh??? Confused


Come come come Ricardo don't act as if you are confused. Don't you remember you posted the following about endangered animals? Show the same care for humans
quote:
Originally posted by ricardomath:

Countdown to extinction for world's great apes





_____________________________
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Vox, you care to share with us what you believe is anti-gay hostility?

-------------------------
"We got to organize ourselves, We got to mobilize and there can't be no confusion in our collective solution, If not for ourselves, then for our kids, because we know who our enemy is!"

DPZ "for the hood"

More to come later!

Your Brother Faheem
quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:
Ricardo,
I would dare say the the "National BLack Coalition" whoever that may be is not representative of a wide range of black american thought.


NS,

I would dare say that my position on many issues is not representative of the majority opinion in this country, whether black or otherwise. Smile

quote:
I'm puzzled about why a married man would fee the need to advocate for gay rights at every opportunity?


I support the human rights of all people, including gays.

In addition, within my lifetime my own marriage would have been illegal in many states, were it not for the Lovings v Virginia decision of the Supremes in 1967. This decision was a happy (for me, anyway!) side-effect of the civil rights movement. Having gained my own right, as a straight white man, to marry who I wish, essentially riding on the coattails of the civil rights movement that ended Jim Crow, it would hardly seem right for me to attempt to deny gays that same right.

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How is gay marriage a "human right" Ricardo? If gay marriage is a human right; why is it being fought on the "civil right" level. Gay marriage is a civil rights issue and far from being a human rights issue. Homosexuals do not want to get married just so they can say they are married, they want to get married so they can be afforded the rights and benefits that are afforded to married men and women, thus making it a civil issue.

-------------------------
"We got to organize ourselves, We got to mobilize and there can't be no confusion in our collective solution, If not for ourselves, then for our kids, because we know who our enemy is!"

DPZ "for the hood"

More to come later!

Your Brother Faheem
quote:
Originally posted by Faheem:
Do you have some Gay agenda Ricardo that you are trying to force down our throats?


I have a many agendas, including human rights agendas, which in turn include gay rights, but I don't think that I am forcing those agendas down anybodys' throats.

quote:
You are beginning to remind me of a snake, albeit a non poisonous one but a snake none the less. You come under the guise of agreement on many issues facing the Black man and woman but you are simultaneously trying to legitimize a lifestyle most Black men and women abhor and believe stem from an abnormality in most of those who take part in this lifestyle.


I have come here under no guise. I believe that I posted a gay rights thread shortly after being invited here by Lofton from another forum. (He was on one of his anti-Latino and anti-immigrant tirades at the time, if I recall correctly.) My opinions on many matters is no secret, including those matters where I disagree with a majority on this forum. Clearly, I am not aligned with the majority of posters here (or any other forum, for that matter) on issues like militarism, disarmament, war resistance, nonviolence, pacifism, etc, in addition to gay rights.

quote:
The struggle gay men and women are engaged in is not equal to or related to the struggle that Black men and women are engaged in.


Every struggle is different, but don't forget the fact that there are gay black men and black lesbians engaged in the gay rights struggle.

quote:
The gay community and supporters of the gay community like you are polarizing this issue as an issue of the right wing republicans thus by default trying to make this an issue in the mind and hearts of those who are against the right wing republicans.


I think that it is the far right in this country that is polarizing the issue, by denying people their basic rights to marry who they wish. You should note that it is not gays who are trying to deny straights the right to marry who they wish.

I'm going to post this this much now so that I don't lose it, and respond to your second paragraph later.

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quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:
Ricardo,
I would dare say the the "National BLack Coalition" whoever that may be is not representative of a wide range of black american thought. I'm puzzled about why a married man would fee the need to advocate for gay rights at every opportunity?


GAY UNIONS/MARRIAGE HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH WEDDINGS OF THE CHURCH. THESE ARE CIVIL UNIONS... CIVIL RIGHTS. WHY ARE BLACKS SO HOMOPHOBIC, PROBABLY WHY BLACK MEN ARE MORE ON THE DOWN LOW THAN WHITE MEN. GET OVER IT, DAMN!!
>>>>>>>>>>Why Ricardo _why_ are you so much in favour of gay people? You are not being consistent. On one hand you post information about animals that are in danger of being wiped out then in the same breath you are in full support of an abnormal behaviour that threatens the human race.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

God made gay people goober. Who are you to judge?? Are you MOSES?? What is threatening black women in AMERICA is not GAY men, but the multitude of Black men that are BI and not TELLING... UNLIKE THEIR WHITE COUNTERPARTS.
quote:
Originally posted by Faheem:
How is gay marriage a "human right" Ricardo? If gay marriage is a human right; why is it being fought on the "civil right" level. Gay marriage is a civil rights issue and far from being a human rights issue. Homosexuals do not want to get married just so they can say they are married, they want to get married so they can be afforded the rights and benefits that are afforded to married men and women, thus making it a civil issue.


I know that lawyers tend to distinguish between "human rights" and "civil rights", but since I am not a lawyer, hose technical distinctions escape me, and in fact hold little interest for me. I gather that one refers to what should be and the other to what is enforced by the state, or something lke that.

In any case, I have a tendency to use the term human rights for such matters, but that may just be my preference. I use the term in more of a practical sense than a theoretical sense.

For example, consider the recient Israeli law prohibiting Palestinians from the occupied territories from cohabiting with their Israeli spouses/partners in Israel. (I have a thread somewhere here about that.) Now, one can quibble about whether cohabitation of the couple is a civil right or a human right, but either way, the fact remains that couples and families are being split apart and exiled. Marriage triggers a lot of widely recognised rights (civil or human).

Many gay couples are currently being split apart and/or exiled from this country because their marriages are not currently recognized by the state. That is just a single example of the injustice of not allowing gay marriages.

(This is an example with which I can empathise quite deeply, since my wife and I were nearly exiled from the US for 10 years a while back.)

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Ricardo, the far right is polarizing this issue as it relate to their constituents, however it is men like you who are trying to polarize this issue as a right against left issue and by doing so making it an issue of concern to Black men and women. There are tons of Black gay men and women but every time I see someone in the Black community trying to win support for gay issues, it is not those Black gay men and women it is white men and women like yourself trying to convince us that gay rights is similar to the rights Black men and women had to fight for, which again is far from the truth. I am not concerned with you loosing it, what ever it may be.

-------------------------
"We got to organize ourselves, We got to mobilize and there can't be no confusion in our collective solution, If not for ourselves, then for our kids, because we know who our enemy is!"

DPZ "for the hood"

More to come later!

Your Brother Faheem
Essentially Ricardo by you saying you hold very little interest in the reality of things we should just dismiss your ranting as that of someone who is self absorbed and see things only as he want to see them? Your example of what is taking place in Israeli is in no way equal to the dynamics that are present in gay marriages here in the U.S. The principles of the two are not the same either. You should re-evaluate your use of the term human right and get yourself a real world definition and not one that suits your ideas.

-------------------------
"We got to organize ourselves, We got to mobilize and there can't be no confusion in our collective solution, If not for ourselves, then for our kids, because we know who our enemy is!"

DPZ "for the hood"

More to come later!

Your Brother Faheem
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
quote:
Originally posted by ricardomath:

"We will not allow the out-of-touch radical right to divide the black community on this issue," she added.




I don't share the anti-gay hostility so many on this board express, but I do find this "coalition" to be pretty ridiculous. If I were gay, before I call somebody else "out-of-touch," I would make sure that I wasn't running around acting like same-sex marriage is a more important issue than stemming the dangers of the DL-culture and the spike in HIV-infection among sexually active gay black males.


Don't you think that the gay community is addressing these issues now? Gay organizations have been at the forefront of these issues.

Also, encouraging openness and monogomous gay marriages would seem to be a step in the right direction, I would think.

So called DL-culture would appear to me to be a response to homophobia.

I don't think that the HIV rates amoung gay black males are an arguement for ignoring gay issues, however, any more than they are an arguement for ignoring black issues.

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quote:
Originally posted by Faheem:
Vox, you care to share with us what you believe is anti-gay hostility?





Homosexuality has been referred to on this site -- hell, on this thread -- as an "abnormal" ""pet hate" of black people, that "threatens the human race." If you want to get into some silly argument about whether "hate" and hostility is the same thing, or whether calling something a hate is expressing hostility, or whether it's hostility to call something abnormal, be my guest. I suppose I could have called it "distaste" or "disrespect" instead of hostility.
quote:
Originally posted by Faheem:
Ricardo, the far right is polarizing this issue as it relate to their constituents,


Their constitutents include black conservatives, some of whom have taken up the call.

quote:
however it is men like you who are trying to polarize this issue as a right against left issue


How have I done that? I argue for human rights, and welcome support on that from the right as well as the left.

quote:
and by doing so making it an issue of concern to Black men and women.


The issue is already a concern to black lesbians, gay men, etc, and many black people concerned with human rights in general.

I address my concerns on many issues to all people, including black people.

quote:
There are tons of Black gay men and women but every time I see someone in the Black community trying to win support for gay issues, it is not those Black gay men and women it is white men and women like yourself trying to convince us that gay rights is similar to the rights Black men and women had to fight for, which again is far from the truth.


I have not said anything about the similarity or dissimilarity of gay issues with black issues. I do, however, believe that people have the right to marry who they choose. I do see a similarity between my right, as a straight white male, to marry who I want, and the right of gays to do the same.

quote:
I am not concerned with you loosing it, what ever it may be.



I am not concerned with my losing the right to marry who I choose, either. That right seems pretty well established under Lovings v Virginia. I have been more concerned with losing my right to cohabitate with my wife in this country under the 1996 US Immigration Act, but that threat too seems to have passed.

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quote:
Originally posted by Faheem:
Essentially Ricardo by you saying you hold very little interest in the reality of things we should just dismiss your ranting as that of someone who is self absorbed and see things only as he want to see them?


I have certainly not said that I have very little interest in the reality of things. I merely said that I am not a lawyer, and tend not to approach things from that perspective. I'm sure that Vox, as a lawyer, would be happy do discuss the fine points and the legal technicalities of the differences in the uses of the terms "human rights" and "civil rights" in US and international law. Everybody has their own approach to things. My activism has tended to come out of a nonviolent direct action tradition, not a legal tradition.

quote:
Your example of what is taking place in Israeli is in no way equal to the dynamics that are present in gay marriages here in the U.S. The principles of the two are not the same either. You should re-evaluate your use of the term human right and get yourself a real world definition and not one that suits your ideas.


Thousands of gay couples and families with foriegn spouses/partners are currently being split up and/or exiled from the US, on the arguement by the government that they are not legally married in this country. How is that not a violation of fundamental human rights?

I believe that my use of the term is proper, and in accordance with the useage by human rights groups.

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quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
quote:
Originally posted by Faheem:
Vox, you care to share with us what you believe is anti-gay hostility?





Homosexuality has been referred to on this site -- hell, on this thread -- as an "abnormal" ""pet hate" of black people, that "threatens the human race." If you want to get into some silly argument about whether "hate" and hostility is the same thing, or whether calling something a hate is expressing hostility, or whether it's hostility to call something abnormal, be my guest. I suppose I could have called it "distaste" or "disrespect" instead of hostility.



National: CDC: Gay, bi men driving epidemic Black community's risk nearly tenfold
The Washington Blade - September 3, 1999
Kai Wright
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New infections among black Gay and bisexual men are largely responsible for driving the AIDS epidemic in the black community in the United States ù an epidemic in which African Americans are nearly 10 times as likely to contract HIV as white Americans ù according to data released this week.
The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention cited new studies showing that black Gay male youth are more than five times as likely to contract HIV as other Gay male youth. And, citing studies that show high numbers of black men having unsafe sex with both men and women, the agency said that HIV infection among bisexual black men is increasing infection rates among heterosexual black women.

A CDC spokesperson noted that the agency has a new testing system to distinguish infections that are "new" (meaning they were acquired within the last four to six months) ù thus enabling public health officials to more easily identify how and from whom it was transmitted. But the agency was unable to provide the Blade with data showing the percentage of new infections within the overall black community that could be ascribed to men having sex with men. CDC said the system is not yet developed enough to allow statistical analysis across categories and modes of infection.

However, one indicator of new infections among black Gays, suggested CDC officials, can be discerned by considering the cumulative data on HIV infections in the 13 to 24 age group. Using CDC data gathered from the 25 states that currently conduct HIV reporting, CDC officials told the Blade that about 40 percent of all HIV infections among this age group to date are black males who have sex with males. Given that these infections are among young people and are HIV rather than AIDS cases, the CDC believes they provide a reflection of how many black Gays are becoming newly infected.

The CDC unveiled the new data at an HIV prevention conference in Atlanta held Aug. 29-31. The conference, CDC organizers said, was intended to combat "a growing complacency" about HIV prevention nationwide.

In addition to the studies showing the continued disproportionate impact of AIDS on the black community, CDC highlighted studies that show AIDS continues to threaten Gay and bisexual men in general. One such study ù a six-city survey of 96,000 STD clinic clients, led by CDC researcher Hillard Weinstock between 1991 and 1997 ù found that 8 percent of Gay and bisexual men were infected compared to 0.48 percent of their heterosexual counterparts. In another study, CDC found 7 percent of Gay and bisexual youth tested in public venues in seven cities tested positive for HIV infection. Many of the youth reportedly learned of their HIV status only after participating in the survey. The same study found that 3 percent of the overall Gay and bisexual youth tested were infected in the previous four to six months.

"Few of the HIV-positive men we found knew they were infected before we tested them, even though many had had an HIV test in the past year," lead researcher Linda Valleroy said, in unveiling the results of the young Gay male study, according to a Reuters report. The study also found that 41 percent of the Gay youth had unprotected anal sex in the past six months.

The CDC publicized numbers that showed that the dramatic decline in overall AIDS deaths seen in the mid-1990s has slowed just as dramatically since 1997. After a 42 percent decline in AIDS deaths between 1996 and 1997, deaths dropped just 20 percent between 1997 and 1998, according to CDC data. Similarly, the declining rate of infection has slowed as well. The HIV infection rate dropped 18 percent between 1996 and 1997, but only 11 percent between 1997 and 1998.

But amid all the sobering new data, the conference's most startling statistics were those showing the upward-spiraling epidemic within the black community ù Gay and straight.

At an Aug. 30 press conference, only briefly reported in the mainstream press, CDC director of HIV prevention Dr. Helene Gayle and National Association of People With AIDS head Cornelius Baker officially unveiled the results of several new studies offering more detail than was previously available about AIDS in the black community. Gayle opened the press conference by noting that African Americans account for nearly half of both AIDS deaths and new AIDS cases in 1998 ù despite representing only around 13 percent of the national population. She then asked Baker to "paint the full picture of who's at greatest risk."

Characterizing the AIDS epidemic as "one of the worst catastrophes we've seen [in the black community] since slavery," Baker singled out black Gay and bisexual men as a primary at-risk group. He tied the high prevalence of AIDS in the black Gay and bisexual male community to the virus's spread throughout the larger black community. Baker, a longtime black Gay and AIDS activist, cited three studies in particular as showing greater risk among black Gay men than other populations:

* David Webb of the Sacramento Department of Health Services surveyed 2,638 Gay males between the ages of 13 and 19 who took HIV tests at California state-funded clinics between 1995 and 1997. He found black participants were 5.8 times more likely to be HIV positive than white participants were,

* Valleroy's seven-city study, surveying Gay and bisexual men between the ages of 15 and 22, found that black participants were almost five times as likely to be infected with HIV as white participants. Fourteen percent of the black participants and 13 percent of the mixed-race participants tested HIV positive, compared to only 3 percent of the white participants. Seven percent of Latino participants tested positive. Valleroy's team surveyed 3,492 young Gay and bisexual men in public venues between 1994 and 1998 in New York City, Baltimore, Dallas, Los Angeles, Miami, San Francisco, and Seattle;

* Weinstock's six-city study, in addition to finding Gay and bisexual men overall to be 17 times more likely than straight men to contract HIV, also found black Gay and bisexual men are almost twice as likely to contract new infections as their white counterparts. Using a groundbreaking new testing technology that allows researchers to distinguish whether or not an infection was initiated in the previous four to six months, CDC researchers reviewed blood samples of 96,000 clients of STD clinics in Baltimore, Miami, New Orleans, Houston, Denver, and Los Angeles. Eleven percent of the African Americans were new infections, compared to 6.5 percent for whites and 7.7 percent for Latinos.

"It shows," Baker said of the studies, "where we still have tremendous challenges."

He and Gayle went on to tie two new studies discussing bisexuality and HIV in the black community to increasing rates of infection among heterosexual black women. One study, conducted by New York City Department of Health and the Gay Men's Health Crisis, surveyed 7,065 men in Gay venues in New York and found 20 percent of black men reported having sex with both men and women, compared to 12 percent of Latino men, and 4 percent of white men. The second study, conducted by the Michigan Department of Community Health, surveyed 1,001 HIV-positive black men in southeast Michigan and found that 36 percent of the men who reported having sex with men also reported having sex with women.

Both Baker and Gayle said the data on HIV prevalence among black men who have sex with men combined with that on higher rates of bisexuality among black men lends greater credence to the theory that steadily rising rates of HIV infection among heterosexual black women who are not injection drug users is tied to men having unprotected sex with men as well as women. Gayle said 64 percent of new infections among women in 1998 were African Americans.

"You get the sense that there's a lot more [men who have unprotected sex with men and women] à than we have previously documented," Gayle commented. Both Gayle and Baker said prevention efforts must be tailored to meet this phenomenon.

Black Gay and AIDS activist Mario Cooper said he was not surprised by any of the statistics unveiled this week. He said the fact that black men are having unsafe sex with both men and women and, subsequently, are driving up HIV infection rates among straight black women is "a practical reality that we've got to figure out how to address."

Cooper added that the problem is particularly difficult to confront because the underlying issue is that many black men who have sex with men simply don't consider themselves Gay. Thus, they tune out HIV prevention messages about anal sex and don't consider themselves at risk to contract the disease from sex with a man. Cooper said the real solution to rising HIV infection rates among straight black women is empowering black women to demand their sexual partners use condoms.
quote:
Originally posted by GinaMarni:
quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:
Ricardo,
I would dare say the the "National BLack Coalition" whoever that may be is not representative of a wide range of black american thought. I'm puzzled about why a married man would fee the need to advocate for gay rights at every opportunity?


GAY UNIONS/MARRIAGE HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH WEDDINGS OF THE CHURCH. THESE ARE CIVIL UNIONS... CIVIL RIGHTS. WHY ARE BLACKS SO HOMOPHOBIC, PROBABLY WHY BLACK MEN ARE MORE ON THE DOWN LOW THAN WHITE MEN. GET OVER IT, DAMN!!


Gina, apparently you not only suffer from lack of "home training" as evidenced by your gruff and profane use of language toward my post, but also you are in the habit of assuming things not expressed and not true.

Although my screen name is "negrospiritual", it is not reflective of religiosity nor self-righteousness. I have no beef with gay people and have not expressed any anti-gay sentiment. I really don't even have a beef with Ricardo. I do however find it odd that a white man married to a black woman would find gay issues to be more pressing than the oppression of black people, immigration laws, health care, jobs, education and any number of issues that are likely to affect the love of his life. I also find this coalition suspect since it is not widely known, politically speaking. Obviously Ricardo thought this was groundbreaking without realizing this coalition is meaningless to the majority of african americans.

Now get over it your dayum self...
quote:
Originally posted by ricardomath:
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
quote:
Originally posted by ricardomath:

"We will not allow the out-of-touch radical right to divide the black community on this issue," she added.




I don't share the anti-gay hostility so many on this board express, but I do find this "coalition" to be pretty ridiculous. If I were gay, before I call somebody else "out-of-touch," I would make sure that I wasn't running around acting like same-sex marriage is a more important issue than stemming the dangers of the DL-culture and the spike in HIV-infection among sexually active gay black males.


Don't you think that the gay community is addressing these issues now? Gay organizations have been at the forefront of these issues.

Also, encouraging openness and monogomous gay marriages would seem to be a step in the right direction, I would think.

So called DL-culture would appear to me to be a response to homophobia.

I don't think that the HIV rates amoung gay black males are an arguement for ignoring gay issues, however, any more than they are an arguement for ignoring black issues.




First, I don't see how the existence of same-sex marriage will trigger some interest in settling down with one partner among people who don't do that anyway. Are there any studies on this?

Second, homophobia has nothing to do with the DL culture. If the black community suddenly began to roll out the red carpet for homosexuality, accepting it wholeheartedly, exactly how would that end the DL culture? How will men who cheat on their wives and girlfriends with other men suddenly feel okay about letting them girlfriends know that they're cheating on them? And how will women respond to openly bisexual men, knowing the HIV risk they pose? In other words, the DL situation would continue, exactly as it has been, even if blacks were 100% accepting of homosexuality. Women will never be open to their men cheating, or to HIV, and the men will never be open to cease sleeping around.

I understand that they should advocate for their issues, but the use of the term "out of touch" to describe people who are against same-sex marriage is, well, out-of-whack.
>>>>Obviously Ricardo thought this was groundbreaking without realizing this coalition is meaningless to the majority of african americans.

Now get over it your dayum self...>>>>>

Meaningless??? Who are you? Moses?? Can you read the minds of blacks or do all black americans EMAIL you and state their opinion on issues... or are you a pollster.... lol

Get out of the south dude... read..
A. I am not a "dude"

B. Your assumption that southern folk do not read is offensive, assanine and juvenile. A great number of black writers, entertainers, political figures, etc were born and raised in the south, nutcase.

C. Perhaps, in my "southernness" I missed the exact nature of your disagreement with my position. Are you capable of fully articulating it without the hysterics?
Vox,

I have no data or studies to back it up (although others might), but I do imagine that there are people who would be more likely to settle down with one partner, were it more socially acceptable. The same goes for people taking necessary precautions. As long as people are deep denial about their sexuality (not only to others, but also to themselves), it will be impossible to reach them.

In any case, even if it were not true, HIV is no more an excuse for ignoring other gay issues as it is for ignoring other black issues.

Gay marriage has suddenly become an issue because of recient court rulings. It was inevitable that courts would at some point address the issue, ever since the precident of Lovings v Virginia, where the Supremes referred to marriage as a basic human right or basic civil right or some such similar language. Now that it has become an issue, it has to be addressed, because if we do not move forward, we will move backwards.

In 5 or 10 years, I suspect that we will all look back and wonder just what the big deal was.

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quote:
Originally posted by Vox:

I understand that they should advocate for their issues, but the use of the term "out of touch" to describe people who are against same-sex marriage is, well, out-of-whack.


Of course, the quote is not mine, but here is the relevant portion from the article:

quote:
The group also called on all black civil rights organizations and political leaders to take a strong position against the Federal Marriage Amendment.

"The right-wing fired the first shots in this battle, but today we fire back," said Coalition member Donna Payne.

"We will not allow the out-of-touch radical right to divide the black community on this issue," she added.


It appears to me that the person speaking is referring to the radical right as being out of touch, not everybody who might oppose gay marriages.

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With all the other issues in the black community, why is this gay issue so important?? it goes to show how the gay-rights and the feminist movement has corrupted the civil rights agenda.Why do sistas always go the aid or defend the so called white liberals? We are always jumping out front to be apologist for white people but we catch hell getting the support of one another!

"I AM BECAUSE WE ARE"
quote:
Originally posted by Knowledgeseeker:
With all the other issues in the black community, why is this gay issue so important?? it goes to show how the gay-rights and the feminist movement has corrupted the civil rights agenda.Why do sistas always go the aid or defend the so called white liberals? We are always jumping out front to be apologist for white people but we catch hell getting the support of one another!

"I AM BECAUSE WE ARE"


I imagine that gay rights issues could be quite important to the 10% or so of the black population who happen to be gay.

Doesn't it make sense for black people to support one another?

The alternative, it seems to me, is divide and rule.

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quote:
Originally posted by negrospiritual:

I also find this coalition suspect since it is not widely known, politically speaking. Obviously Ricardo thought this was groundbreaking without realizing this coalition is meaningless to the majority of african americans.



The organization is new, so I would be surprised if it were widely known. I don't know anything about it, except that it appears to be an ad hoc coalation of black GLBT individuals who are activists in various other organizations, presumably formed (amoung other things) to help counter the push by the radical right for a constitutional amendment banning gay marriages.

Here is a webpage that I found that describes a little more about the group.

http://www.blacklightonline.com/fma.html

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Here's an article about it from the Washington Post.

Gay Blacks Launch Ads To Broaden Support
Help Sought to Defeat Same-Sex Marriage Ban



By Darryl Fears
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, December 9, 2003; Page A03

A coalition of gay and transgender African Americans announced yesterday that it will use a nationwide advertising campaign to reach out to a group that some say seems to dislike them most: the broader African American community.

Representatives of the National Black Justice Coalition said their goal is to inform black Americans about marriage equality for same-sex couples and drum up black community opposition to a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, which has been proposed by some conservatives.

The coalition's announcement, at a news conference in Washington, followed statements by black Republicans and clerics denouncing gay rights organizations for comparing their movement to the black struggle for civil rights.

"I believe there's no comparison whatsoever," the Rev. Talbert W. Swan II of Solid Rock Church of God in Christ said yesterday. His church is in Springfield, Mass., where the state Supreme Court recently ruled that gay couples can legally marry.

In an earlier statement, Swan had said that homosexuality "is a chosen lifestyle" and that race is different because "I could not choose the color of my skin. For me to ride down the street and get profiled is something a homosexual will never go through."

Republicans have said the gay marriage issue could persuade African Americans, who tend to be churchgoing, to embrace their agenda.

Keith Boykin, a spokesman for the coalition, took issue with that idea. "Don't be fooled by a few recent poll numbers into thinking that marriage will divide the black community in the upcoming election year," he said. "African Americans are somewhat more conservative about marriage than we are about other civil rights issues, but this is not new and this is not news. We vote on jobs, the economy, health care, war and peace, and social justice."

A poll released last month by the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press found that African Americans oppose gay marriage by a 2 to 1 ratio.

A separate study released in 2000 by the Policy Institute of the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force reported that one-fifth of respondents to its Black Pride Survey had negative experiences in the black community, and nearly half -- 43 percent -- had a negative experience with a black church.

Swan said equal marriage could not be used to divide the black vote because Republicans are too conservative on other social issues. But he said gay marriage was not an issue he supports. "You will find no passage in the Bible . . . where God smiles on homosexuality," Swan said.

Boykin, who served as a special assistant to President Bill Clinton, said the coalition plans to spend $100,000 to place advertisements in black magazines, such as Ebony, Essence and Jet, and black newspapers, such as the Michigan Chronicle in Detroit and the Baltimore/Washington Afro-American.

Mandy Carter, another member of the coalition, said the group would meet to determine what the ads should say. But their intent is to convince black people that discrimination against committed couples on the basis of sexual orientation is a form of social injustice.

"We can't get family health insurance, so we have to pay two deductibles instead of one," Alicia Heath-Toby and Saundra Heath-Toby, a same-sex couple, said in a joint statement. "We are your neighbors next door. We ride the bus and subway with you. We sit next to you at lunch."

Civil rights organizations that sponsored sit-ins at lunch counters in the 1950s and '60s -- the NAACP and the Southern Christian Leadership Conference -- have been silent on marriage equality, as has the National Urban League.

"We haven't formally taken a position," said Sheriee Bowman, director of information and public relations for the SCLC. "We would definitely be open to a dialogue, but we don't know enough about what their issue is."

Boykin said the coalition will contact each civil rights group. Coalition member Maurice Franklin, who once worked for the SCLC, called on the groups to work with them in the memory of Bayard Rustin, a gay black man who helped orchestrate the 1963 March on Washington with the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.

"For decades, black gays and lesbians sat at the table silently and patiently while everyone got their piece of the American dream," Franklin said. "So today we are asking the civil rights leadership to live up to their legacy and moral compass and not let the American dream of freedom turn into a nightmare for gays and lesbians."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A47287-2003Dec8.html

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Why blacks go through the trouble helping gays when we have so many other problems to deal with of our own INCLUDING these men fools who are on the DOWN LOW, if you know what I mean, spreading AIDS and other diseases to unsuspecting women.

Gays and blacks HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON the difference is sexual preferance and race and it makes me angry that gay people try to use the BLACK EXPERIENCE in their arguments to move forward their debased agenda, it pisses me off!!! Mad

Please..... Roll Eyes

The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.
Thanks Henry38, yes I'm alive and kicking been laying low though cuz I don't know what the heck is going to happen next...LOL Big Grin

Just observing and trying to form opinions with some objectivity which sometimes is hard to do but what is harder is actually changing an opinion and acknowledging another point of view that has a better argument, it takes class to do that Wink, but that don't make it the truth because sometimes one small piece of information is not realized that can bring one to a completely different conclusion.

The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.
Junebug is right.....do not try to mix any sexual preference issues with race issues...one is a matter of choice and one is not. It is very parasitic of gay rights types to do so....Since I did not see gay types marching in the 60's for civil rights, then do not expect civil rights/pro-black types to embrace the gay agenda. That is their thing, separate and apart.....

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