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Black America's Crisis

Forty years after a controversial report, the question is whether we're any closer to facing the facts about poverty, race and single moms


06:13 AM CDT on Sunday, August 21, 2005
By KAY S. HYMOWITZ



Read through the megazillion words on class, income mobility and poverty in the recent New York Times series "Class Matters," and you still won't grasp two of the most basic truths on the subject:

1. Entrenched, multigenerational poverty is largely black; and

2. It is intricately intertwined with the collapse of the nuclear family in the inner city.

By now, these facts shouldn't be hard to grasp. Almost 70 percent of black children are born to single mothers. Those mothers are far more likely than married mothers to be poor, even after a post-welfare-reform decline in child poverty. They are also more likely to pass that poverty on to their children. Single motherhood is a largely low-income and disproportionately black problem.

The truth is that we are now a two-family nation, separate and unequal – one thriving and intact, and the other struggling, broken and far too often African-American.

So why does The Times, like so many who rail against inequality, fall silent on the relation between poverty and single-parent families? To answer that question – and to continue the confrontation with facts that Americans still prefer not to mention in polite company – you have to go back exactly 40 years. That was when a resounding cry of outrage echoed throughout Washington and the civil rights movement in reaction to Daniel Patrick Moynihan's Department of Labor report warning that the ghetto family was in disarray.

Titled "The Negro Family: The Case for National Action," the prophetic report prompted civil rights leaders, academics, politicians and pundits to make a momentous – and, as time has shown, tragically wrong – decision about how to frame the national discussion about poverty.

To go back to the political and social moment before the battle broke out over the Moynihan report is to return to a time before the country's discussion of black poverty had hardened into fixed orthodoxies – before phrases like "blaming the victim," "self-esteem," "out-of-wedlock childbearing" and "teen pregnancy." While solving the black poverty problem seemed an immense political challenge, as a conceptual matter, it didn't seem like rocket science. Most analysts assumed that once the nation removed discriminatory legal barriers and expanded employment opportunities, blacks would advance, just as poor immigrants had.

Conditions for testing that proposition looked good. Between the 1954 Brown decision and the Civil Rights Act of 1964, legal racism had been dismantled. And the economy was humming along; in the first five years of the '60s, the economy generated 7 million jobs.

Yet those most familiar with what was called "the Negro problem" were getting nervous. About half of all blacks had moved into the middle class by the mid-'60s, but now progress seemed to be stalling. The rise in black income relative to that of whites, steady throughout the '50s, was sputtering to a halt.

Policymakers had assumed that if male heads of household had jobs, women and children would be provided for. This no longer seemed true. Even while more black men were getting jobs, more black women were joining the welfare rolls. Mr. Moynihan, then assistant secretary of labor, decided that a serious analysis was in order.

Mr. Moynihan argued that the rise in single-mother families was not due to a lack of jobs, but rather to a destructive vein in ghetto culture that could be traced back to slavery and Jim Crow discrimination. Though black sociologist E. Franklin Frazier had already introduced the idea in the 1930s, Mr. Moynihan's argument defied conventional social-science wisdom.

He also described the emergence of a "tangle of pathology," including delinquency, joblessness, school failure, crime and fatherlessness that characterized ghetto – or what would come to be called underclass – behavior. Mr. Moynihan knew the dangers these threats posed to "the basic socializing unit" of the family, because more than most social scientists, Mr. Moynihan understood what families do. They "shape their children's character and ability," he wrote. "By and large, adult conduct in society is learned as a child." What children learned in the "disorganized home[s]" of the ghetto, as he described through his forest of graphs, was that adults do not finish school, get jobs or, in the case of men, take care of their children or obey the law. Marriage, on the other hand, provides a "stable home" for children to learn common virtues.

Implicit in Mr. Moynihan's analysis was that marriage orients men and women toward the future, asking them not just to commit to each other but to plan, to earn, to save and to devote themselves to advancing their children's prospects. Single mothers in the ghetto, on the other hand, tended to drift into pregnancy and to float through the chaos around them. Such mothers are unlikely to "shape their children's character and ability" in ways that lead to upward mobility.

Separate and unequal families, in other words, meant that blacks would have their liberty, but that they would be strangers to equality. Hence, Mr. Moynihan's conclusion: "A national effort toward the problems of Negro Americans must be directed toward the question of family structure."

Despite President Lyndon B. Johnson's endorsement, by that summer the Moynihan report was under attack from all sides. Civil servants in the "permanent government" at Health, Education and Welfare and at the Children's Bureau muttered about the report's "subtle racism." Black leaders like Congress of Racial Equality director Floyd McKissick scolded that, rather than the family, "It's the damn system that needs changing."

Given the fresh wounds of segregation and the ugly tenaciousness of racism, the fear of white backsliding that one can hear in so many of Mr. Moynihan's critics is entirely understandable. Less forgivable was the refusal to grapple seriously – either at the time or in the months, years, even decades to come – with the basic cultural insight contained in the report: that ghetto families were at risk of raising generations of children unable to seize the opportunity that the civil rights movement had opened up for them.

Most memorably, the black activist William Ryan accused Mr. Moynihan of "blaming the victim," a phrase that would become the title of his 1971 book and the fear-inducing censor of future plain speaking about the ghetto's decay. For white liberals and the black establishment, poverty became a zero-sum game: either you believed, as they did, that there was a defect in the system, or you believed that there was a defect in the individual. It was as if critiquing the family meant that you supported inferior schools, even that you were a racist.

Over the next 15 years, the black family question actually became a growth industry inside academe, the foundations and the government. Scholars invented a fantasy family whose function was not to reflect truth, but to soothe injured black self-esteem and to bolster the emerging feminist critique of male privilege, bourgeois individualism and the nuclear family. In fact, some scholars continued, maybe the nuclear family was just a toxic white hang-up, anyway. No one asked what nuclear families did or how they prepared children for a modern economy. The important point was simply that they were not black.

Feminists, similarly fixated on overturning the "oppressive ideal of the nuclear family," also welcomed this dubious scholarship. Fretting about single-parent families was now not only racist, but also sexist, an effort to deny women their independence, their sexuality or both. As for the poverty of single mothers, that was simply more proof of patriarchal oppression.

The partisans of single motherhood got a perfect chance to test their theories, since the urban ghettos were fast turning into nuclear-family-free zones. Indeed, by 1980, 15 years after "The Negro Family," the out-of-wedlock birthrate among blacks had more than doubled, to 56 percent. In the ghetto, that number was considerably higher, as high as 66 percent in New York City.

Liberal advocates had two main ways of dodging the subject of family collapse while still addressing its increasingly alarming fallout. The first was to talk about children not as the offspring of individual mothers and fathers responsible for rearing them, but as an oppressed class in need of government programs. The second way was to talk instead about the epidemic of teen pregnancy.

There was just one small problem: There was no epidemic of teen pregnancy. There was an out-of-wedlock teen-pregnancy epidemic. Teenagers had gotten pregnant at even higher rates in the past. Back in the day, however, when they found out they were pregnant, girls had either gotten married or given their babies up for adoption.

Not this generation. They were used to seeing children growing up without fathers, and they felt no shame about arriving at the maternity ward with no rings on their fingers, even at 15.

Failing to define the problem accurately, advocates were in no position to find the solution. Teen pregnancy not only failed to go down, despite all the public attention, the tens of millions of dollars and the birth control pills that were thrown its way, but it actually went up. About 80 percent of those young girls who became mothers were single, and the vast majority would be poor.

Throughout the 1980s, the inner city continued to unravel. Child poverty stayed close to 20 percent, hitting a high of 22.7 percent in 1993. Welfare dependency continued to rise, soaring from 2 million families in 1970 to 5 million by 1995. By 1990, 65 percent of all black children were being born to unmarried women. By this point, no one doubted that most of these children were destined to grow up poor and to pass down the legacy of single parenting.

The only good news was that the bad news was so unrelentingly bad that the usual bromides and evasions could no longer hold. Something had to shake up what amounted to an ideological paralysis, and that something came from conservatives. Three thinkers in particular – Charles Murray, Lawrence Mead and Thomas Sowell – though they did not always write directly about the black family, effectively changed the conversation about it.

First, they did not flinch from blunt language in describing the wreckage of the inner city. Second, they pointed at the welfare policies of the 1960s as the cause of inner-city dysfunction, and in so doing, they made the welfare mother the public symbol of the ghetto's ills. And third, they believed that the poor would have to change their behavior instead of waiting for Washington to end poverty.

By the early 1990s, when the ghetto was at its nadir, public opinion had clearly turned. No one was more attuned to this shift than triangulator Bill Clinton, who made the family a centerpiece of his domestic policy and signed a welfare-reform bill that he had twice vetoed – one that included among its goals increasing the number of children living with their two married parents.

So, have we reached the end of the Moynihan report saga? That would be vastly overstating matters. Remember: 70 percent of black children are still born to unmarried mothers, and many academics, cultural leaders, organizations and even individuals of all races and classes cannot bring themselves to admit that marriage protects children.

Still, the nation is at a cultural inflection point that portends change. Though they always caution that "marriage is not a panacea," social scientists almost uniformly accept the research that confirms the benefits for children growing up with their own married parents. Welfare reform and tougher child-support regulations have reinforced the message of personal responsibility. There are raw numbers to support the case for optimism: Teen pregnancy, which started to decline in the mid-'90s in response to a crisper, teen-pregnancy-is-a-bad-idea cultural message, is at its lowest rate ever.

And finally, in the ghetto itself, there is a growing feeling that mother-only families don't work.

That's why people are lining up to see an aging comedian as he voices some not-very-funny opinions about parenting.

That's why so many young men are vowing to be the fathers they never had.

That's why there has been an uptick, albeit small, in the number of black children living with their married parents.


Kay S. Hymowitz is a scholar at the Manhattan Institute. A longer version of this essay appears in the current issue of City Journal. You may respond to this article at http://www.city-journal.org.
Original Post

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I think Kay S. Hymowitz reflects a seminal cause for the crisis she describes.

Thanks 'Sweetwuzzy' for a great article.

Ms Hymowitz entitled her piece 'Black America's Crisis'. She thereby endorses the color construction of our nation while she then proceeds to describe 'all the ills' resulting from that system.

And she decries it.

I agree with her about Patrick Moynihan's report. The Moynihan Report was the sociological bell-ringer of the 1960s.

And that was BEFORE the PILL.

It was co-incident with The Black Power Movement.

I DO NOT believe our embracing 'black' as a descriptor is the reason for our social ills.

Choosing 'black' turned against us. We made a bad choice for a good reason. Maybe it is more accurate to say we did not go far enough.

Maybe if we had embraced Africa as our descriptor we would more easily recognize African American.

We sure recognize 'Black' America with no problem.

I don't intend to 'push aside' the point of this excellent essay. But the issue has to be about solutions. We have heard other versions of this old, old lament.

How do we move to solutions????

That has to be the goal of this exercise.

Ms Hymowitz has not offered any.

For her this is an academic exercise.

For us, it is life.

IT IS UP TO US TO FIX IT.

PEACE

Jim Chester
Last edited {1}
Yet another 'writer' using African Americans to boost their career.

When did the the Black single mother statistic go from 50% to 70%.
Black people just like white people where living in poverty in this country before the Women's Rights Movement.
There are just as many poor married mothers as there are poor single mothers.

Welfare is not the cause of a rise in single motherhood, it is the women's rights movement and the women's right to chose which also means the right to chose to NOT have and abortion or to chose to be a single parent.

If you read the history of this country, Europe, and almost any other 'industrialized nation' you will find that illegitimacy is nothing new, only how it was handled, now women cannot be forced to put their child up for adoption, now people with money or government agencies cannot barge into a person's home and snatch their child(ren) from them based on illegitimacy or poverty alone (in the past they were able to).
Now more women keep the child they become pregnant with as apposed to the opposite happening years ago.

Although it would be better for a child to be born to two loving parents, that reside in the same home together with the child until the child is grown, but unfortunately, in a FREE Nation, people (even teenagers) have the right to have a child without benefit of marriage and have the right to get a divorce without having another person's point-of-view, cultural or religious beliefs shoved down their throats.

Lack of child support enforcement is a major cause of the poverty rate of children born to Black single mothers, as is with children born the any other poor or sturggling single mothers, white or otherwise, previously married or otherwise as well, in this country. However, whenever the subject is discussed, the microscope of judgment stays trained on the mother (female) and usually evades the father's (male) role in the child's poverty, etc., but to implement a serious child support enforcement policy in this country would debunk the myth of illegitimacy and poverty, and the religous right can't have that, now can they?

There is nothing going on with the Black family in America that is not going on with the white family in America - illegitimacy, divorce, abortions, drugs, high school drop outs, etc., etc.,

Why is is always of a public forum when the same thing that other Americans are doing is also being done by African Americans?
quote:
There is nothing going on with the Black family in America that is not going on with the white family in America - illegitimacy, divorce, abortions, drugs, high school drop outs, etc., etc.,



SADLY, many of you are PACIFIED that bringing voice to the problems that other people have is a SOLUTION to YOUR PROBLEMS.

If YOU are indeed seeking ABSOLUTE improvement in your fortunes in your (your people's) life which would some day be reflected in the RELATIVE measure to these other people that you refer to then you should bring forth information that shows where you stand with respect to those who have attributes that you ASPIRE to implement into your own culture NOT the negative attributes of another community which only tend to PACIFY YOU IN YOUR CURRENT STATE AND GIVE YOU COMFORT.


Then again, maybe you all are right. The market for "Self Help" tapes which highlight proper ways of thinking is only a fraction of the size of the market for "Self Destruction" tapes that often have a "nice beat" and a video released with them. td6
quote:
SADLY, many of you are PACIFIED that bringing voice to the problems that other people have is a SOLUTION to YOUR PROBLEMS.



Where is it said by anyone that the fact that white people do the same f-ked up schit that black people do makes it okay for black people to do it in the first place.....and that their (WHITES)behavior is A SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEMS BLACK PEOPLE FACE?.....there you go again...implying YOUR interpretation of what was said and putting your damn foot in your mouth and saying some real stupid azz schit....you cannot find where someone said what black people do is okay BECAUSE white people do it also....TRY to find it and please re-post it in here......
Neutral question here, ok?
ie. no cynicism, point scoring or attitude attached.

I am curious, both CF and Kevin41... what books do you read? Let's limit the scope a little and say in the last month?

Please don't do: a) a Michael on me - refusals and hyperlinks, or, b) make me feel invisible.

Take your time, but it's a valid question ok?

If you don't want to offer dialog, fine, just author surnames and titles will do. Smile
quote:
Originally posted by James Wesley Chester:
I think Kay S. Hymowitz reflects a seminal cause for the crisis she describes.

Thanks 'Sweetwuzzy' for a great article.

Ms Hymowitz entitled her piece 'Black America's Crisis'. She thereby endorses the color construction of our nation while she then proceeds to describe 'all the ills' resulting from that system.

And she decries it.

I agree with her about Patrick Moynihan's report. The Moynihan Report was the sociological bell-ringer of the 1960s.

And that was BEFORE the PILL.

It was co-incident with The Black Power Movement.

I DO NOT believe our embracing 'black' as a descriptor is the reason for our social ills.

Choosing 'black' turn against us. We made a bad choice for a good reason. Maybe it is more accurate to say we did not go far enough.

Maybe if we had embraced Africa as our descriptor we would more easily recognize African American.

We sure recognize 'Black' America with no problem.

I don't intend to 'push aside' the point of this excellent essay. But the issue has to be about solutions. We have heard other versions of this old, old lament.

How do we move to solutions????

That has to be the goal of this exercise.

Ms Hymowitz has not offered any.

For her this is an academic exercise.

For us, it is life.

IT IS UP TO US TO FIX IT.

PEACE

Jim Chester



Do you believe welfare is the reason why there is a high percentage of "unstable" families in the black community?? This has been said a many a times
quote:
Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:
quote:
There is nothing going on with the Black family in America that is not going on with the white family in America - illegitimacy, divorce, abortions, drugs, high school drop outs, etc., etc.,


SADLY, many of you are PACIFIED that bringing voice to the problems that other people have is a SOLUTION to YOUR PROBLEMS.

If YOU are indeed seeking ABSOLUTE improvement in your fortunes in your (your people's) life which would some day be reflected in the RELATIVE measure to these other people that you refer to then you should bring forth information that shows where you stand with respect to those who have attributes that you ASPIRE to implement into your own culture NOT the negative attributes of another community which only tend to PACIFY YOU IN YOUR CURRENT STATE AND GIVE YOU COMFORT.


Then again, maybe you all are right. The market for "Self Help" tapes which highlight proper ways of thinking is only a fraction of the size of the market for "Self Destruction" tapes that often have a "nice beat" and a video released with them. td6




Do you believe welfare is the reasonn why there is a high percentage of "unstable" families in the black community?? This has been said a many a times
Welfare is not the cause of a rise in single motherhood, it is the women's rights movement and the women's right to chose which also means the right to chose to NOT have and abortion or to chose to be a single parent.

If you read the history of this country, Europe, and almost any other 'industrialized nation' you will find that illegitimacy is nothing new, only how it was handled, now women cannot be forced to put their child up for adoption, now people with money or government agencies cannot barge into a person's home and snatch their child(ren) from them based on illegitimacy or poverty alone (in the past they were able to).

Now more women keep the child they become pregnant with as apposed to the opposite happening years ago.

Although it would be better for a child to be born to two loving parents, that reside in the same home together with the child until the child is grown, but unfortunately, in a FREE Nation, people (even teenagers) have the right to have a child without benefit of marriage and have the right to get a divorce without having another person's point-of-view, cultural or religious beliefs shoved down their throats.

Lack of child support enforcement is a major cause of the poverty rate of children born to Black single mothers, as is with children born the any other poor or sturggling single mothers, white or otherwise, previously married or otherwise as well, in this country. However, whenever the subject is discussed, the microscope of judgment stays trained on the mother (female) and usually evades the father's (male) role in the child's poverty, etc., but to implement a serious child support enforcement policy in this country would debunk the myth of illegitimacy and poverty, and the religous right can't have that, now can they?
-Sunnubian



You make some very good points.Do you think womens empowerment and lack of government involvement in helping children are the causes of black america's crisis??
I am not really getting the answers I wanted.

The article is linking welfare programs with the collapse of the black nuclear family in the inner city. Is this a fair assessment? This theory has been said a many a time, I am wondering if anyone here agrees with this. If this is false, what is the cause of the collapse of the black nuclear family??

Is this simply just because in general the U.S and Europe are also having a decrease of nuclear families, but if this is why, why is it higher amongst blacks in the U.S. How can we stop the shift away nuclear families in the black community and the United States in general ??
quote:
Originally posted by art_gurl:
Neutral question here, ok?
ie. no cynicism, point scoring or attitude attached.

I am curious, both CF and Kevin41... what books do you read? Let's limit the scope a little and say in the last month?



Please don't do: a) a Michael on me - refusals and hyperlinks, or, b) make me feel invisible.

Take your time, but it's a valid question ok?

If you don't want to offer dialog, fine, just author surnames and titles will do. Smile


I read too many books to even list...news, medical and technology publications and black and other academic journals, including my school books. On average I probably cover 50-75 publications a month between subscriptions and websites...I even have a checklist to make sure I cover them all.....now if you would like me to post that list...for whatever reason....what is your reason? is it to try and assess the intelligence level of those involved? If so, I usually conduct the social experiments and not be a subject of one.........
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin41:

I read too many books to even list...news, medical and technology publications and black and other academic journals, including my school books. On average I probably cover 50-75 publications a month between subscriptions and websites...I even have a checklist to make sure I cover them all...

I'm taking the point that you are a voracious reader.

quote:
...now if you would like me to post that list...for whatever reason....what is your reason?

curiousity + asking questions = learn new things

quote:
is it to try and assess the intelligence level of those involved? If so, I usually conduct the social experiments and not be a subject of one.........

Good heavens! Big Grin
I don't get off on silly tests to assess people's 'intelligence' levels Kevin41. I leave that to MENSA tests and SATs and others....

If it's not obvious, then I will spell it out... I usually ask questions about what people are reading if I already consider them a) intelligent, and/or, b) have something worth saying ....so that I can... a) consider other similar or dissimilar points of view and think about them, and then, b) hopefully I can fill in my knowledge gaps.

Simple as that. Seeing as your list is so lengthy, then perhaps - if you wish to - it could be culled down to what you consider the 2 most influenctial pieces of fiction and/or non-fiction or academic material you have read in the past month?

If you choose not to, then that is fine.
No worries, as they say over here. Smile

I don't engage in dialog/debate about the American political landscape simply because I have limited knowledge of it and some of it is irrelevant to me. As would some Australia politics be to people on AA. But I can read and learn.
quote:
Originally posted by art_gurl:
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin41:

I read too many books to even list...news, medical and technology publications and black and other academic journals, including my school books. On average I probably cover 50-75 publications a month between subscriptions and websites...I even have a checklist to make sure I cover them all...

I'm taking the point that you are a voracious reader.

quote:
...now if you would like me to post that list...for whatever reason....what is your reason?

curiousity + asking questions = learn new things

quote:
is it to try and assess the intelligence level of those involved? If so, I usually conduct the social experiments and not be a subject of one.........

Good heavens! Big Grin
I don't get off on silly tests to assess people's 'intelligence' levels Kevin41. I leave that to MENSA tests and SATs and others....

If it's not obvious, then I will spell it out... I usually ask questions about what people are reading if I already consider them a) intelligent, and/or, b) have something worth saying ....so that I can... a) consider other similar or dissimilar points of view and think about them, and then, b) hopefully I can fill in my knowledge gaps.

Simple as that. Seeing as your list is so lengthy, then perhaps - if you wish to - it could be culled down to what you consider the 2 most influenctial pieces of fiction and/or non-fiction or academic material you have read in the past month?

If you choose not to, then that is fine.
No worries, as they say over here. Smile

I don't engage in dialog/debate about the American political landscape simply because I have limited knowledge of it and some of it is irrelevant to me. As would some Australia politics be to people on AA. But I can read and learn.


I feel ya and as so far as the tests, I was just asking out of curiousity myself....I do not think I have read a piece of fiction in decades..reading time is valuable and I have so much ground to cover I only get to read the sports pages and maybe about cars or something for pleasure...the rest of the time is devoted to the topic areas listed above....those are the areas I feel have the most direct impact on me for having read them....I have a copy of the Norton Anthrology of African American Literature that is several thousand pages long...it has a history that is comprehensive and starts way back before slavery and chronicles EVERYTHING from slave songs to what is going on today....I have other black books like the Isis Papers that outline some of the social phenomena we face today and what can be done to rectify our social ills........I try to get to them but I am having to make time.....and I don't even sleep that much....'sigh'..................
This is an old list from about 1998.....i'll have to find a electronic version that has been updated....hope it is of some assistance to you. I do not reference all of these monthly but a good number of them I do.....many publications have been added since then but all I can find is the list where I penciled them in.......



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83. UNIX REVIEW
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quote:
Originally posted by art_gurl:

I am curious, both CF and Kevin41... what books do you read? Let's limit the scope a little and say in the last month?


Let us see here - I have an Amazon.com shipping list right here:

Radical Equations: Math Literacy and Civil Rights by Robert P. Moses; Charles

Thomas Sowell - Knowledge And Decisions

Other People's Children: Cultural Conflict in the Classroom

I have to add a musical CD that I ordered as well: "Ella Fitzgerald Sings The Cole Porter Songbook"

Ella Fitzgerald and others show HOW MUCH WE AS A PEOPLE HAVE LOST OUR WAY OVER THE YEARS. sad

This is my personal time reading list.

I appear to be in the same technical and computer field as Kevin so I read many of the same professional trade rags that he does - but I do it on line.

I am reading about "IP Multimedia Subsystem" the next generation of voice, video and audio delivery infrastructure that will unite the wireless and broadband segment with the Internet.

After attending a public forum and hearing from the CEO of the "Africa Channel" discuss how he his dependent on cable companies to distribute his video signal - IMS will allow anyone with content to by pass these centralized clearing houses and directly reach their customers. The Internet may use computers today as the terminal device but just as VoIP providers have you using your standard telephone, the next generation cable box will use the Internet and have you to watch "streaming video" on your television set. The audience will be global rather than city wide.
Last edited {1}
quote:


Do you believe welfare is the reason why there is a high percentage of "unstable" families in the black community?? This has been said a many a times


Welfare is not a "cause" but is a result of deeper issues.

I believe that an IMPLODED CULTURE is the reason for the dissolution of FUNCTIONAL familes in certain Black communities.

Welfare is a sign that there is not enough jobs being created in the Black community to employ the maximum amount of people AND that are educational system (schools, parents and students) are not preparing the students adequately for quality employment.

Black people have endured as families through much greater challenges than what we have now. I don't believe that economics is the primary reason for the current issues.

When a man is allowed to "sow his seeds" and then "roll on his children" and but for a JUDGES order to pay for them, he has nothing to do with their development into human beings with good character - how far are we away from destruction? (White or Black?)
quote:
Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:

When a man is allowed to "sow his seeds" and then "roll on his children" and but for a JUDGES order to pay for them, he has nothing to do with their development into human beings with good character - how far are we away from destruction? (White or Black?)




Do you think this has to do with the downing of the importance of fatherhood, which might be because of feminism?? Or is this just people dodging responsiblity more
Last edited {1}
quote:
I appear to be in the same technical and computer field as Kevin so I read many of the same professional trade rags that he does - but I do it on line.



I am not in telecomm...I was an engineer in the R&D environment and designed circuits using microwave, digital and video circuitry....the things we developed were for weapons systems and made it to the business and civilian sectors years later via technology transfer....for example, we had chips that ran in the GHZ range back in 1984...and they did not make it to the PC World until after 2000.....the material, Galium Arsenide (GaAs) was used to form the silicon for chips way back then....the main purpose was to try and get digital data transfer rates at the same speed microwave data was being sampled...the problem was......they could not find a backplane that could handle a high az data transfer rate without absorbing noise and ringing from the high frequency components of pulse rise and fall times.....that brother....is not telecomm......at all......that is more of a design area concerned with data acquisition...of all signal freuquencies...digital,video, RF, microwave and infrared..........
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin41:
I only get to read the sports pages and maybe about cars or something for pleasure...the rest of the time is devoted to the topic areas listed above....those are the areas I feel have the most direct impact on me for having read them....I have a copy of the Norton Anthrology of African American Literature that is several thousand pages long...it has a history that is comprehensive and starts way back before slavery and chronicles EVERYTHING from slave songs to what is going on today....I have other black books like the Isis Papers that outline some of the social phenomena we face today and what can be done to rectify our social ills........I try to get to them but I am having to make time.....and I don't even sleep that much....'sigh'..................

Thanks for your generosity in sharing your reading material.

It helps me understand some new perspectives and gives me some new avenues of reading to follow. And I can certainly understand why you get so little sleep and seemingly single-handedly keep the tech magazine industry in revenue. Smile
The Norton's Anthrology sounds particularly interesting reading.

Damn, wish I'd asked you what music you listen to.
Thanks again.
quote:
Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:

Let us see here - I have an Amazon.com shipping list right here:

Radical Equations: Math Literacy and Civil Rights by Robert P. Moses; Charles

Thomas Sowell - Knowledge And Decisions

Other People's Children: Cultural Conflict in the Classroom

I have to add a musical CD that I ordered as well: "Ella Fitzgerald Sings The Cole Porter Songbook"

This is my personal time reading list.
I appear to be in the same technical and computer field as Kevin so I read many of the same professional trade rags that he does - but I do it on line.

Thanks CF for being generous in sharing your reading and listening shopping list - yes Amazon is a little like ordering from Santa.


quote:
I am reading about "IP Multimedia Subsystem" the next generation of voice, video and audio delivery infrastructure that will unite the wireless and broadband segment with the Internet.

After attending a public forum and hearing from the CEO of the "Africa Channel" discuss how he his dependent on cable companies to distribute his video signal - IMS will allow anyone with content to by pass these centralized clearing houses and directly reach their customers. The Internet may use computers today as the terminal device but just as VoIP providers have you using your standard telephone, the next generation cable box will use the Internet and have you to watch "streaming video" on your television set. The audience will be global rather than city wide.

I'm interested in the VoIP ability for free/cheap phone calls across the planet and of course video streaming capabilities. Lots of positive opportunitis there. Although 'fingers crossed' we don't have to endure too many tacky sound files attached to banner ads.

I really do see a lot of positives for local content shared globally. And 'glocal' content - the new buzz word I've heard - which is the localisation or local interpretation of global trends and interaction.

At this moment in time, I see the internet as THE democratic voice/place on the globe. Let's all make sure it stays that way.
quote:
Originally posted by art_gurl:
quote:
Originally posted by Kevin41:
I only get to read the sports pages and maybe about cars or something for pleasure...the rest of the time is devoted to the topic areas listed above....those are the areas I feel have the most direct impact on me for having read them....I have a copy of the Norton Anthrology of African American Literature that is several thousand pages long...it has a history that is comprehensive and starts way back before slavery and chronicles EVERYTHING from slave songs to what is going on today....I have other black books like the Isis Papers that outline some of the social phenomena we face today and what can be done to rectify our social ills........I try to get to them but I am having to make time.....and I don't even sleep that much....'sigh'..................

Thanks for your generosity in sharing your reading material.

It helps me understand some new perspectives and gives me some new avenues of reading to follow. And I can certainly understand why you get so little sleep and seemingly single-handedly keep the tech magazine industry in revenue. Smile
The Norton's Anthrology sounds particularly interesting reading.

Damn, wish I'd asked you what music you listen to.
Thanks again.


At one time I subscribed but over time I have narrowed the number down significantly..maybe to about only 15....and I review the rest over the web...even the magazines I get....i tear out the table of contents...hit the web site later and cut and paste articles and topics of interest in categorized folders and archive to CD's about once a year...the same with all personal documents and receipts too....i was becoming an organized pack rat and had to do something...as so far as music.....I do not go out of my way for entertainment too much anymore....I listen to rap and other contemporary music....when I was younger I listened to very classical jazz over the years due to my pops....from cab to duke to ella to miles to grover to some contemporary jazz such as ronnie laws, earl klugh, stanley clark george duke....and back then I played a trombone in jazz, symphonic and marching bands and even played in a summer orchestra once....then once I had to do something with my life....all that was as a teenager....music became less important and relaxing music no longer fit the pace at which i operate at....so i guess i have regressed from the classy days...and my pace fits outkast more than it does grover and co.......but I am glad I at least had a rich upbrining in music and I go back and seek that type on the radio when I have my moments..but like I said......my pace is different.....I juggle mutliple careers, shoot lots of hoop, socialize moderately and burn the midnight oil all the time....at home and in the streets.....one day i'll have to slow down...until then.....why? p.s. hope you don't read about me and a serious case of burnout one day...... :-)
music changes over time but there obviously has been some regression.....we have gone from sisters like the Emotions singing like angels to sisters singing "who dat is..my baby daddy...but that really is not supposed to mean anything or have any impact....the key is to have people view entertainment as entertainment only, not a reflection of some weird azz culture that is embedded in our heads as our norms.....that is why once I play their songs...there is no need to look or act the part or give a f-k about their personal lives..I need to stay preoccupied with trying to get their kinda green and thats about it....I mean to each his own....but i'm from that school of thought like Hank Hill....where earrings are for women, tatoos are for drug addicts and sex in any position besides missionary is a crime and ginseng is dope...gotta love those narrow azz views....just kidding though....about the ginseng and missionary....hell I used to tell my frat brothers with brands on them that 25 years from now, the frat will turn into a gay-rights organization and all I will have to do is throw objects in the trash and not cosmetic surgery...i am a liberal thinker rooted in some traditional values...but not enough to make me think retro.....I like contemporary and leading-edge thinking as the way to go.......
Do you believe welfare is the reason why there is a high percentage of "unstable" families in the black community?? This has been said a many a times---sweetwuzzy

Sorry for being so long in getting back.

I think welfare is one the reasons. Welfare did place its values on the man being out of the home. The rationale was there was no need if there was a man in the home.

This is the philosophical extension the reasoning of the financial industry; 'How do I get paid?'

Welfare existed BEFORE Patrick Moynihan. When I was a child I was what was then called 'Relief'. I guess 'welfare' was the then politically correct terminology.

Relief held families together.

Relief held persons together.

As the nation's economy recovered, men went back to work. 'White' men went first. 'Black' men did not get work until the last 'white' man was hired.

There evolved this condition of 'black' men not working. And...receiving relief.

Welfare evolved out that psychology, and included the standard of 'No man in the house.'

The rest is history.

Those are not the conclusion of a sociologist. It's just the way it looked to me.

I worked for a very, very short time in a Department of Welfare; just long enough to sit through a few dozen coffee breaks and complete a training sequence.


PEACE

Jim Chester
Kevin41: you obviously have great time managment skills!
well there's a heck of a lot to respond to there, lol

so I'll just comment on this...

quote:
Originally posted by Kevin41:
i am a liberal thinker rooted in some traditional values...but not enough to make me think retro.....I like contemporary and leading-edge thinking as the way to go.......

I'm guessing you already know how rare a combination that is!

ps: any Moby in your music collection?
quote:
Originally posted by art_gurl:
Kevin41: you obviously have great time managment skills!
well there's a heck of a lot to respond to there, lol

so I'll just comment on this...

quote:
Originally posted by Kevin41:
i am a liberal thinker rooted in some traditional values...but not enough to make me think retro.....I like contemporary and leading-edge thinking as the way to go.......

I'm guessing you already know how rare a combination that is!

ps: any Moby in your music collection?


Thanks luv......I try to keep the wheels churning..i guess when I get down the road...i will have fooled myself into thinking I was actually a productive person..... Big Grin No Moby in the collection...not much of a collection.....just some 80's old school(let the young-uns of today tell it) rap cassettes(in some cases in the closet that I dig out when I am feeling slighlty nostalgic)...all of EWFon CD....and anything anyone gives me to burn for them....which really adds up over the years.....anything else is just roving....whereever I catch it....on the run....you know who is one kool cat to me? Cab Calloway....I really like his style.....he's to that band thing what Thorgood Marshall was to law....one of a kind.....that was a step above when compared to others of their ilk.......but to be honest....the list of one-of-a-kind black people is sooo long...MBM doesn't have the space for me to list them......as so far as entertainment...if I had to pick one....it would be EWF..their music has a strange relaxing and energetic effect that is postive in nature...to me anyway........
quote:
Originally posted by art_gurl:
Kevin41 are you talking Earth Wind and Fire?
Should I admit to seeing them live in SYDNEY (!)very early 1970s, lol Eek I was a bigger fan of Santana and John McLaughlin in those 'heady' days - oh and let's not ever forget Herbie Hancock. Now that guy is COOL. Big Grin Peace.



Yes.....that is them......EWF....as a brother who has played an instrument.....trying to read their sheet music for the trombone REALLY made me appreciate what they were doing on stage.....wow

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