Bill Cosby Urges Black Students to Study

RoweA1

quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
"Judgment of the people in the situation is not helpful. How can you help them is the question," said hip-hop mogul Russell Simmons, founder of "Def Jam Records" and the "Phat Farm clothing line."

If Russell Simmons or Louis Farrakhan were making these statements, instead of Bill Cosby, I guarantee they would be more welcolmed by the black community. Instead of becoming defensive, blacks would feel "motivated" and "uplifted" by their "deep" wisdom. The problem is, African Americans simply do not want to have to defend themselves against someone who they feel can no longer "relate" to the drudgery of being black in America. That's why we're hearing all of these complaints. Its as if as soon as you become wealthy and distinguish yourself from the poverty that stagnates us, you somehow renounce your membership to being black and you can no longer critique and/or praise the black community, for whatever reason. Although I may not agree with all of Cosby's statements, some of them inflammatory, a person should not have to build "K-12 Afrocentric schools" just to make an observation and have that observation be respected. The point is, the man is expressing his concern in the ways that are best and most comfortable for him. You go on the Internet and discuss your concerns all day long and no one is stopping you from doing this. No one dares challenge or doubt the contributions that you make outside this forum. BTW: These comments are aimed at everyone participating, not MBM specifically.

11/13/048:37 PM

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EbonyRoseA1

quote:
Originally posted by Faheem:
Ebony you talk about fixing the reality but you can not expect me to believe that while you continue to say that Black parents and Black people in general having to work twice as hard as everyone else for the same results is ok.

No, Faheem ... I certainly wouldn't expect you to believe that! And moreover, please don't believe it, 'cause it's not true. Of course it's not okay .. but that reality has been in effect for generations before me, and there's not much indication that that is going to change any time in the near future. Unconditional equality may be on the horizon, but it certainly has not arrived as yet.

You also won't get any argument out of me regarding the dismal state of the education system in this country. Especially for our children and our communities, the entire system could use a complete overhaul, if not a total restructuring to adequately be able to be of an educational benefit for us.

However, I see that and parental responsibility as two separate and major problems. To me, to say that a good school should or could compensate for a lack of parental involvement would intimate that the school system should be responsible for raising our kids. Granted, they do spend about a third of their school-aged lives in school and with teachers, and therefore, it is a big influence that does carry a certain amount of responsibility on a child's direction in life ... I don't see that the teacher nor the school should be responsible for basic home-training skills. Also, it should be a collaberative effort ... one without the other does not necessarily mean failure, but a combination of both would certainly enhance the chances of success.

I really can't speak to your argument of conversations like Cosby's reinforcing some negative thoughts that some White person may have or think or say regarding problems such as this within our community. I truly don't care what they think ... and in fact feel that your opinion (as well as other concerned Black people) is much more prevalent and important than some racist sitting back saying, "See, I told you those Black people don't know how to act!!" My opinion is who gives a damn??

but it would seem that you do ... and I just don't understand that.

But, I would hope that the very real problem of the lack of parental responsibility of so many of our children would be something you were concerned about. And your thoughts and your opinions about that problem is what would be of interest to me. However, (and I may have totally misuderstood you on this and if so, I apologize) but from your posts on this subject, I gather that you don't even believe that this problem even exists ... or that it is as extensive as it is. So therefore, you wouldn't have an opinion about it to give to me!

However, if you do/did, I'd love to hear it!

11/15/041:10 AM

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FaheemA1

I believe a problem does exist but I am the one who is truly separating the two as you claim you are doing. Let me show you where you are going wrong Ebony. You wrote that you see the complete overhaul of the public school system and parental responsibility as two separate issues. However, immediately after writing that you say one is the cause of the other thus joining them back together. The problem in the public school system is not the lack of basic home training; the problem is these schools are not capable of preparing our children for the future in their current condition.

You then reverse my arguments by saying that I am saying a good school should have to compensate for lack of parental involvement, which is not my position. My position is Black parents should not be beat over the head with that parental responsibility crap when the evidence show that when our children are put in good schools they perform at the same level as the students who are already in those schools. Thus my argument is Black parents should not be called failures because they can not be the super parents that is needed to compensate for the failure of the school system to properly educate our children.

It is you Ebony that is arguing the failure of the public school system to properly educate and prepare our children is the direct result of the lack of parental responsibility. I am saying your argument is false. I am not asking schools to raise our children; I am asking that these schools educate our children. This goes back to a point I made a few post ago. If you believe that lack of parental responsibility is the reason our children do poorly in school, how do you reconcile such a belief with the fact that when our children are taking out of these schools and put in good schools they perform as the other children perform? They still have the same parents, still live in the same community, Parents are not a bit more involved now than they were when the child was at the bad school but the child does better in school. THIS IS NOT A PARENTAL RESPONSIBILITY PROBLEM; THIS IS A PROBLEM WITH THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM FAILING TO EDUATE OUR CHILDREN.

You continue to say you don't care about what white people think, well it is about time you realized that what you are saying is empowering their argument. Now if you do not care what they think, I would hope that you not speak on this issue because you not caring what they think does not mean what you say does not impact what they think and provide them with the support their arguments against rograms like affirmative action need, when they say Affirmative action is more harmful to Black men and women than to white folk. I will spell it out to you again Ebony and please sister, take your time and try to understand what I am saying.

Yours and Bill Cosby argument is the failure of the public school system to educate our children is caused by the lack of parental responsibility but the evidence proves otherwise, however this very same argument is the argument white folk use to fight against more funding for our schools, it is what they use to fight allegations of poor infrastructure at our schools and many other things that make our schools not suited for an educational facility however, unlike you white folk admit the truth when our children get to the collegiate level. White folk no longer talk that parental responsibility crap, they say our children are unprepared for rigorous matriculation because our children attended school that did not, and could not prepare them for such. This is the argument used to end affirmative action. I can point you to such an argument if you are not convinced. White folk claim, that affirmative action is putting Black people in schools they are not prepared for and that affirmative action does a disservice to us. Thus ending it is best thing to do. Why is it that you can not see this Ebony? Simply saying you do not care what white folk think is not having long term vision of the ramification of your false argument that parental responsibility is the reason the public school system is failing our children

I believe that all parents could be doing more for their children, including me, but I am able to separate the failures of a school system to hold up there end of the deal and a parents being able to hold up their end of the deal. How are you Ebony differentiating between School failure and the lack of Parental Responsibility? And how does that lack of Parental responsibility make a school that is under funded, have under qualified teachers, is falling apart at the seems miseduate our children?

11/15/042:37 AM

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MBMA1

I just heard an interview with Bill Cosby on V103 here in Atlanta. I must say ALL of his comments were out of love and a commitment to the uplift of black people. I can't speak for those things that I read that he said in the past, but he was 100% on point in his comments this morning. He was tough, and challenged our young people to expect more out of themselves, but it was from the right place and I agree with it 100%.

11/15/048:27 AM

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EbonyRoseA1

Faheem ... I don't know where we got off track here, but you have my train going in a whole totally different direction!

As I'm reading, I'm trying to figure out what I said that gave you the impressions you do. I am going to attempt to explain my views as eloquently as you just did ... because I do much better understand your position now! I think.

quote:
Originally posted by Faheem:
I believe a problem does exist but I am the one who is truly separating the two as you claim you are doing. Let me show you where you are going wrong Ebony. You wrote that you see the complete overhaul of the public school system and parental responsibility as two separate issues. However, immediately after writing that you say one is the cause of the other thus joining them back together. The problem in the public school system is not the lack of basic home training; the problem is these schools are not capable of preparing our children for the future in their current condition.

No, no, no. I do not believe that one is the cause of the other. When I said two separate problems, that's exactly what I meant. To be clear, I see the two as I see apples and oranges; i.e., they are both fruit, but totally different from each other. The same goes for parental responsibility and adequate education ... they are two different things, but both very important to the overall development of a child.

Children spend a lot of time at school and/or with teachers. So, yes a teacher does "rear" a child, so to speak. In addition to educating a child, a teacher does have to guide certain mannerisms and behaviors, insofar as development of the child as he/she grows up. That's as far as any connection would go. And that is different from the education a child should receive at home from his/her parent(s), which is to prepare them for life and life's lessons.

quote:
My position is Black parents should not be beat over the head with that parental responsibility crap when the evidence show that when our children are put in good schools they perform at the same level as the students who are already in those schools. Thus my argument is Black parents should not be called failures because they can not be the super parents that is needed to compensate for the failure of the school system to properly educate our children.

Your point is well taken. But, again, a parent failing to properly parent and a failing educational system are two different things. I don't think you can judge a parent as a success or failure by whether or not that child gets educated in school. A "good" or "bad" parent can live anywhere ... a mansion or the "ghetto", have any amount of or no money at all, be a college grad or a high school drop out ... doesn't matter. Because none of those things really determines whether or not a person will or can adequately parent a child. It's a matter of personal responsibility that one takes towards their parental responsibilities. That's what makes the difference.

I believe an inner city child who has a responsible parent will learn ... even if their school is inferior!! The right parent-teacher combination can get a child through the unfairness that is our national education system. On the other hand, a naturally bright child with a non-caring, non-responsible parent usually falls through the cracks, along with their potential. Not all of them. But some. And those that don't usually only make it when there is a teacher or other responsible adult on the other end pulling them through. All Black parents are not created equal. Most of them are not failures. And few of those get the praise they are due. For a lot of them, their kid's successes are the proof of their success (as a parent). And not just educationally, but in all areas of life. By the same token, criticism is also due to those that are failing their children. Which is who I'm talking about.

quote:
It is you Ebony that is arguing the failure of the public school system to properly educate and prepare our children is the direct result of the lack of parental responsibility.

No, no, no!! That is not my argument. Again, apples and oranges. The failure of the public school system to properly educate and prepare our children is the direct result of an inadequate and racist government system, and our (as a people and community) lack of doing something about it! Period.

Kids, unsupervised at 10:00 at night, hanging on corners, reciting Snoop Dog, but not knowing their ABCs, cussing and committing crimes and unable to formulate a cohesive sentence (at the age of 10) is what I would call a direct result of a lack of parental responsibility.

quote:
This goes back to a point I made a few post ago. If you believe that lack of parental responsibility is the reason our children do poorly in school, how do you reconcile such a belief with the fact that when our children are taking out of these schools and put in good schools they perform as the other children perform? They still have the same parents, still live in the same community, Parents are not a bit more involved now than they were when the child was at the bad school but the child does better in school. THIS IS NOT A PARENTAL RESPONSIBILITY PROBLEM; THIS IS A PROBLEM WITH THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM FAILING TO EDUATE OUR CHILDREN.

Again, it is not that I believe bad parenting = the reason kids do poorly in school. There are any number a reasons a child does poorly in school. A "good" parent can have a child that does poorly in school. The child themselves may have difficulty learning. An under-achieving, under-funded school is most definitely a probable reason. Not all bad students have bad parents. But within our community, we have a 40%-50% dropout rate, and a majority of those dropouts and those doing crimes and going to jail come from homes where there is a lack of parental supervision and responsibility. There's a trend there. Yes, some of the little "delinquents" do come from very nice homes with extremely well-to-do parents. But the numbers weigh much more heavily the other way. And I think that is something worthy of serious consideration.

quote:
You continue to say you don't care about what white people think, well it is about time you realized that what you are saying is empowering their argument.

I'll cut your quote there, but take it all into consideration of my answer.

I totally understand your argument here. It is a very compelling one. You make an excellent point of how empowering the myths and stereotypes gives them the ammunition they use to keep us from achieving things like Affirmative Action and other such benefits. (I believe this is what you are saying, right?

) I agree with you as well!

My perception of this, though, Faheem, is that, that's just their latest and best excuse. It doesn't matter what is said or what is shown to them about Affirmative Action. We are never going to get Affirmative Action because they think it's the right thing to do. We will only get it because we fight for it, just like we've had to fight for everything else.

After all, you are talking about people who can see a videotaped police beating and say it didn't happen like that. People who will let a man look them in the face and LIE and still re-elect him on "moral values". People who say, Well, yes, racism still exists, and yes, racism disenfranchises you, but yes, you are playing on a level and equal playing field.

I mean, WTH is that??

So, It doesn't matter what is right, or good or fair. They are not looking for the truth. They are not trying to do what is right. They are going to continue to fight us for everything we ask for because they want to keep what they already have for themselves and don't want to share it with us, or anybody else for that matter.

If it's not Bill Cosby's statements, it's something else. It's denying data, it's making up their own statistics and excuses. They say they don't want to give us money or opportunity because it will be wasted on us, but they don't want to give it to us because they simply don't want to give it to us!! They want to keep it. And will say and do and use anything they can to do just that.

That White people think we are inferior is nothing new ... and is going to get older before it gets recognized as a falsehood. So, no, I'm not going to waste my energy worrying about what they think. We are going to have to fight for what is right, using the judicial system ... which is the only weapon we have to do it with ... and get whatever gains we get. The alternative is to do what we need to do and start to do it for ourselves. Build our own. Manage our own. Take care of our own.

But living in a country that is racist against us is not our only problem. In addition, we have the problem for not being responsible for each other ... and by extension, ourselves. Not individually. But as a people, as a community. And part of that lack of responsibility includes a section of us that are not properly parenting their kids and not educating them for the lessons of life. Only a part, yes, but a section that is, to me, too big. And a part that works, together with the separate fact that we do live in a racist country, against us in achieving the raising of more successful children in our community.

Parental irresponsibility is not the government's fault nor their responsibility. A failing school system, on the other hand, is probably both the government's fault and responsibility. At least in part. But we can do more to control the basic values that young Black children grow up with than we can to make the government overhaul our public education system.

Our children are intelligent individuals. Given the right opportunities, they can and do learn as well as anybody else's children, if not better. A child placed in an above-average school has an above-average opportunity. I do not dispute your point that you if take a child with a good or bad parent and place them in a good school that child will learn. But the lessons learned (or not learned) from a parent and the lessons learned (or not learned) in the school systems are not the same kinds of lessons. And the education of right from wrong and the education of reading, writing and 'rithmatic are two different educations.

11/16/041:48 AM

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APGiftsMember

.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A FEW FACTS ON … “DR” BILL
(“THE WIZARD-OF-COS&rdquo COSBY
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.
The person who is now referred to as "Dr." Bill

Cosby ("THE GREAT-And-POWERFUL COS")

is quite simply The World's Biggest Hypocrite …

and this is being stated .... Due To the FACT that:

(In addition to (1) his well-known, and unrepentant,

Adultery and Womanizing; (2) the Sexual-Assaults

of which he has been repeatedly-accused (and

paid "hush money" to keep this out of the press);

(3) his Double-Standard regarding the subject of

interracial-romance; (4) his abandoning, as well

as (5) his vile mental and cruel emotional abuse,

of his (known) Out-Of-wedlock-Offspring; etc. --

(5) even the way that he "obtained" (i.e. Purchased)

his so-called "doctorate" degree is just yet another

example of how ... the "super-rich" can quite easily

buy their way out of or into nearly any and everything.

Cosby is 100% BOTH a Fraud AND a Hypocrite --

AND he is the last person on the planet who we,

as the decent and moral members of our society,

should 'hail' as being the one who we deem as

"worthy" of being selected as THE MESSENGER

of bringing THE MESSAGE (which, anyone with

a brain stem can see is a GREAT MESSAGE)

to his own people -- (particularly seeing that

he secretly-lives in the very EXACT SAME

lifestyle as do those in his group that he

both hypocritically and publicly-condemns)

(THE LINKS BELOW PROVIDE MORE ON

… “THE-GREAT-AND-POWERFUL-COS&rdquo

https://www.facebook.com/speakinmymind/posts/559859290703091?comment_id=6229054&offset=0&total_comments=7

https://www.facebook.com/speakinmymind/posts/559859290703091?comment_id=6187149&offset=0&total_comments=7

Now --- before anyone MISUNDERSTANDS

the POINT that I am making here … perhaps

you may be interested in noting the FACT that

---- it is "THE MESSENGER" (who is nothing

more than MERELY …. (1) an Un-repentant and

Adulterous-Cheater and Notorious-Womanizer;

(2) a Stereotypical-Breeder of at least one KNOWN

Out-of-Wedlock Child… that he then left up to the

government (via the very hard-working American

taxpayers) to have to support; (3) someone who has

been accused of RAPING multiple women (whom he

later ‘paid off’ or ‘threatened’ in order to keep silent);

AND (4) someone who (although he brags about his

degrees ad-nauseum) did NOT actually 'earn' even a

SINGLE ONE of his purchased educational-degrees)

--- and that IT IS *NOT* "THE MESSAGE" that I'm

CONDEMNING and / or criticizing in my comments.

The "Great and Powerful Cos" is both just a total hypocrite

(as, he does the very same things that he condemns his
own people for when they do it) and is also a 100% Fraud;
he is the last person on the planet who should have made

any statement in regard to the bad-behaviors of his people

(seeing that he is truly "no different than they … only richer");

and it's high time that someone both noticed and exposed

'The Man Behind The Curtain” and used a "worthy" person

found within his group in order to try to get his people into

the shape that their earlier leaders once sought for them.

Cosby is a disgrace to every actual DECENT (and

non-hypocritical) American who (unlike him and

those of his ilk) actually are living lives of VERY

hard work and moral behavior -- and (unlike this

Cosby-fraud) are not rich hypocrites and frauds who

are no different than the people that we scold ... but

we (those of us Americans who ACTUALLY are the

hard-working tax-payers) do NOT have the millions

of dollars (that Cosby-the Fraud) had with which to

buy ourselves out of or into any situation .. and then

pretend to be different from those that we criticize.

Maybe if all of those Black people of America had

heard from someone within their group who was not

some WELL-KNOWN and TOTAL 100% FRAUD --

those people would have taken the advice that was

handed to them (unfortunately by Cosby-the-Fraud

--who, again, behaves in the EXACT SAME manner

which he condemns when it is done by other people).

There are plenty of actual moral and hard-working

people found among his grouping (some of whom

are even as well off as is 'The Great and Powerful

Wizard of Cos') and those are the people to whom

the rest of us should tell them to listen in order to get

their lives and communities improved and in shape.

.
.

Also, in regards to the matter of the “The Great and
Powerful ‘Wizard’ of Cos … Crowned-Prince of the
Hollywood-Celebrity Myth-Making-Machine’ ,,, what
is even more appallingly-sad is that … his vile and
odd behaviors seemed to have actually become
worse … as he advanced in both age and status.

For example ...

(1) even more women (none of whom have

anything to gain) have come forward about

'recent-attacks' that he has made -- and this

is even 'after' he 'paid off or threatened' the

initial group of women (and who knows how

many victims that one would find if one went

back to the 'swinging sixties and seventies)';

(2) many of surviving children -- such as

his (in-wedlock) daughter 'Erinn' AND

his (out-of-wedlock) daughter ' Autumn'

-- have openly kept a 'distance' from

this individual in their adult-lives.

Their distancing of themselves from him could

be related to (1) just how horrifically he treated
(his in-wedlock daughter) 'Erinn' -- both after she
was physically-assaulted in an attempted RAPE by
an infamous and notorious celebrity (he merely met
with the admitted-assaulter and then simply had him
'promise to get mental-therapy’ rather than work to
have him serve any jail time') and (2) how badly he
also treated her before, during and after she’d become
addicted to drugs (which she then managed to beat – all
without any help from good ole' Bill "America's Dad")
-- AND -- related to (3) just how horrifically he treated
(his out-of-wedlock daughter) 'Autumn' -- wherein (after
he made her grow up living off of the government-welfare
money throughout her entire life) he then later also had her
'arrested and imprisoned' (while she was pregnant with
twins and even after a U.S. Appeals-Court overturned

her original -- and Cosby-arranged -- conviction) for
daring to consider an offer given to her by a tabloid
to interview her about their relationship with Cosby

(and all as he made sure that Autumn's husband did
not spend even one day serving a minute of jail time).

It is unknown why 'The Great Cos' is so awful

to the women (including his own daughters)

who have had 'the misfortune of being a part

of his life' -- or -- why he would have been so

'lenient' on the man who 'admittedly' tried to

RAPE his own daughter -- all while going

out of his way to have another daughter

IMPRISONED (while pregnant with

twins) but protected her husband.

Perhaps -- being an accused-RAPIST himself

-- he related to and empathized more with his

daughter's attempted-RAPIST than he did

with his own daughter and / or -- being a

perceptively-MISOGYNIST -- he felt an
odd desire to cruelly IMPRISON his own
(pregnant-with-twins, at the time) daughter
while also keeping her husband totally safe.

The man strikes one as being BIZARRE,

a complete and TOTAL FRAUD and a

rather DANGEROUS individual -- BUT

-- because he shows himself to be willing to

hypocritically-PARROT a MESSAGE (that

others of all "races" -- including the 'black' one --

have been telling his people for literal-decades)

-- so many (so-called) "conservative" outlets are

willing to allow readers to innocently-concur that

this UTTER-FRAUD as being "a good, decent

family-man and great role-model for his people"

Such an image being portrayed by this

hypocritical-parrot who attempt to ape

(in "word" -- but never in "deed") the

behavior of the people who actually are

the truly-decent, hard-working Americans

-- is really just a complete insult -- as is the

'protection' that conservative-outlets are

naively offering to this beastly-behaving,

complete fraud (who secretly lives a life

that is much more similar to that of the

average "rapper" -- that he is more than

willing to 'publicly'-condemn, all while

'privately'-emulating) -- than it is to

that of this fraudulent media-created

image of him as "America's Dad").

Thank God – that truly decent-people are 'willing

to listen' when someone dares to 'break out of the

ranks' and publicly-present the truth on just how

inappropriate THE MESSENGER (known as Bill

Cosby) is to have been the (self-appointed and

media-protected) one to bring THE MESSAGE

(which is actually a very good one that have

been presented to his people for literal-decades)

to those people found within his own "racial"

and ethic grouping that would need to hear it.

Thanks to all who are willing to view ‘The True

Facts … on THE FRAUD known as … The-Cos’

and I also hope that you will have a very nice day.

Sincerely,

-- AP Gifts

allpeoplegifts AT gmail DOT com

http://www.youtube.com/user/apgifts/about

.
.

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