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Bill Cosby Urges Black Students to Study
Tue Oct 12, 8:06 AM ET
By BOB LEWIS, Associated Press Writer


RICHMOND, Va. - Bill Cosby spoke bluntly to students at Richmond's mostly black public schools Monday, urging them to dedicate themselves to graduation, not gangs, and to control anger that threatens to derail their dreams.

Cosby toured four schools with former Gov. L. Douglas Wilder, who is running for mayor. But instead of talking politics, Cosby stuck to his no-nonsense message to inner-city black children that at times has made him the target of criticism.

"Study. That's all. It's not tough. You're not picking cotton. You're not picking up the trash. You're not washing windows. You sit down. You read. You develop your brain," Cosby pleaded at Fred D. Thompson Middle School, where 65 percent of the 700 students meet low-income criteria for free or reduced-price lunches.

There and at George Wythe High School, the 67-year-old actor and comedian implored black children in their teens to begin studying in groups, for girls not to allow themselves to get pregnant and for boys not to compensate for love they lack at home with gangs or sex.

"I'd like to tell you I don't think things have changed since I was 14," Cosby said. "There are still old people who drink, do drugs "” who will stop and take the time to tell you don't be like them. Have you heard them? Pay attention to them."

Cosby mentioned sex and an auditorium packed with sixth- through eighth-graders buzzed with laughter, catcalls and whistles. Then he mentioned algebra and the room momentarily quieted.

"Everybody knows about sex. Not too many people want to know about algebra," he said.

"Let's think about love. Let's think about where it is and where you can get it, but not sex. You're too young for sex," he said, joking with the children. "You don't have sex 'til you're 50 years old. What, that's too old? Well how about 49?"

In urging young blacks to find self-worth in academics, Cosby's comments were similar to those he made in May in Washington, D.C., when he upbraided some inner-city blacks for squandering opportunities won in the civil rights movement.

Cosby was criticized by some black activsits, just as Wilder has been in speaking bluntly in his mayoral race about black poverty, joblessness, crime and what he says is a lack of black leadership in this city of about 195,000.

Wilder and Cosby, however, said the visit grew out of their longtime friendship and its timing three weeks before election day had nothing to do with politics. Wilder, who in 1990 became the nation's first elected black governor, and Cosby, who helped desegregate prime-time television in the 1960s, said Cosby's appearance was not a tacit endorsement. Cosby said he wouldn't consider endorsing Wilder without first meeting his opponents.

"This is not a campaign piece," Wilder said. "I don't think it helps my campaign, I don't think it hurts my campaign."

With a national political portfolio, Wilder's campaign treasury and fame dwarf those of his opponents, including incumbent Mayor Rudolph McCollum.

Cosby was annoyed at the political speculation.

"I'm not running for any office and I think that Gov. Wilder "” let's all face it "” would not need to set up a smoke screen in order to get the two of us to get some kind of publicity," Cosby said.
 
 BLACK by NATURE, PROUD by CHOICE.
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Bill Cosby's treatment exemplifies the 'damned-if-you-do' axiom. Here is a man who has done more for African American, and African Americans than any sampling of African American-Americans of almost any size. Yet, there is media criticism of him every time he opens his mouth.

I don't think Cosby is immune from criticism. I do wonder why the media seems to gain such joy in it.

Maybe it's simply about the money.

Circulation.

I think that a person of societal, and financial stature of Bill Cosby being so intimately involved in the day-to-day problems of his people is far beyond the expectation of the cynic.

It right and good that they are naming buildings for him.

There should be more.

There probably will be.

PEACE

Jim Chester
There isn't 'media' criticism of cosby, there is Black criticism from our community since he is ruining the 'gaming' and 'rhetoric' of those blacks in the community who keep telling us that all is hopeless due to our color.

Study. That's all. It's not tough. You're not picking cotton. You're not picking up the trash. You're not washing windows. You sit down. You read. You develop your brain,"

Thanks be to God that there is someone finally speaking out and telling us to lose this ridiculous 'pity-mongering' that we've been brainwashed into internalizing. To hear alot of black people speak, you'd actually think we WERE picking cotton or something. Next time you hear the word 'oppressed', realize you are being gamed by someone out for themselves, not for you.
quote:
m. Here is a man who has done more for African American, and African Americans than any sampling of African American-Americans of almost any size.


This is getting too thick...

You and nobody else can substantiate that. Bill Cosby hasn't done that damn much. Please....

I agree with giving people credit but diefying them is out-of-order.

And, I'm gonna have to make a sig out of this but valid premises do not a sound argument make.


JWC, why don't you list what Cosby has done specifically for all this education he wants young Black kids to have K-12?

Don't stutter... Come right up with the list of things he's done with his stature and celebrity besides speaking. Again, I said K-12.

How many schools has he started? How many Programs That Work has he promoted and tried to duplicate across the country or regionally in Philly or wherever?

C'mon... all you Bill Cosby fans... Tell me what he's done about the specific things he wants to make so much a part of his crusade.
Why is it when a black personb acknowledges the status quo he has to be speaking from a standpoint of victimization or pity mongering.....I have accomplished quite a few things and have been very successful...way above the norm....but this country is still a racist motherf-king backwoods colony....and succeeding DESPITE racism is not succeeding because there is NO racism.....and for those who think black people are just supposed to shut up and not speak out.....must be the house negroes who come from bowed-head parents...or the racist inbred white whose stupid azz notion of superiority makes them think they can tell the darkies how to perceive their own reality....both groups have quite a bit of f-king audacity...just think if black men thought like timothy mcveigh.....with all the schit we are taken through..al Qaeda would have many more members and cells all over this country.......
JWC, why don't you list what Cosby has done specifically for all this education he wants young Black kids to have K-12?

Don't stutter... Come right up with the list of things he's done with his stature and celebrity besides speaking. Again, I said K-12.---Nmaginate

Deify? Lawdy me. I didn't know I did that.

How,, how..hhow many? I, I,,, I don't know. But, but I'll bet is more than you,,,, and me,,, AND several hundred more like us.

Seriously, I didn't need a list for my point to be valid. But I'm sure for those really needing such documentation a 'search' will readily provide some locations. The last time I looked I think I saw at least one K-12 school.


PEACE

Jim Chester
JanesT,

When has a black person said all is hopeless due to our color. You sound like one of those old white antebellum racists that just want negroes to shut the f-k up about the disparate treatment many of us face daily...and it has nothing to do with age, gender or acheivement level or economic status...so get off of that bullschit white rhetoric that tries to tell black people what we should and should not acknowledge about oue own damn social reality. I have been highly highly qualified most of my damn life....but that still didn't stop me from going through excess bullschit. I went through it just because I am a black male who doesn't defer to whiteness or have that self-subjugating "i'm less than dem gud white folk" azz demeanor about myself....nor did it stop the show from happening.....should I just be quiet because it didn't? hell no!!! you need to save that shitty habit of speaking on black folk's behalf as accepting and succumbing to failure....because that is not the case...we wouldn't have come as far as we have or even be discussing this mess of a country we are in if we were hopeless......
quote:
Originally posted by James Wesley Chester:How,, how..hhow many? I, I,,, I don't know. But, but I'll bet is more than you,,,, and me,,, AND several hundred more like us.


That's an assuption and overstatement...Just because someone is famous/rich doesn't mean they do half as much as the average community activist does. I know people who actually have opened 4 African centered schools for K-12 that have done a schit load more for the community and the youth then Bill Cosby's yapping. You underestimate the ability of "several hundred more just like us"...a.k.a. the masses.

Our only savior is going to be ourselves.
quote:
Seriously, I didn't need a list for my point to be valid. But I'm sure for those really needing such documentation a 'search' will readily provide some locations. The last time I looked I think I saw at least one K-12 school.


No, seriously... you do need to provide documentation and evidence of K-12 school(s) opened, fostered and promoted by Mr. Bill Cosby.

You should know me by now.
The "Just Because I said so" BS doesn't fly with me. Just because you esteem Bill Cosby and just because he's made contribution doesn't mean he's contributed meaningfully, if at all, to the very thing he's making an issue.

And the point of him doing more than me, etc. just shows how pathetic you are with supporting the junk that comes out of your mouth. Obviously, he has more means than I do (and we need not reiterate what Oshun pointed out.)

Bill Cosby is suppose to do more because he has more. And, all I'm saying is that if he wants to carry on about what's essentially manifesting itself in K-12 then that's where his contributions should be and it should be what he's known for. Instead, at best, he goes around giving college tuition (scholarships) to kids who have already made it to a certain extent.

And, again, you show you eternal weakness by NEVER providing anything in support of the BS you say. Bill Cosby doesn't get a free pass just because he donates and had a damn TV show!

Now, if you can't provide info. that says that Cosby has a particular focus in his efforts to do something about K-12 especially since he can go around the country and make so many lectures concerning it then consider yourself dismissed as usual. Yes!! I placed the onus clearly on you and those who want to defend Cosby's silliness to Show & Prove.

You live in his backyard, right?
Surely you out of all people should know of something off the top of you head BY NAME instead of cowardly suggesting that we search for some info. you act as if it is common knowledge.

I didn't need a list for my point to be valid.

Your point is valid about what??
Towards what conclusion??
.... Already address that Argumentatively Impaired anticipated response:
"And, I'm gonna have to make a sig out of this but valid premises do not a sound argument make."

Show how your "point" valid about what Cosby has done in the K-12 arena. I contend, from what I know, his efforts for the amount of MOUTH he has is way lacking when it comes to K-12. From what I know, he contributes minimally to that and more towards colleges and other programs and, if at all, towards some Picture Pages, Kids Say The Darnest[sic] Things type of stuff that hardly are directed at "Lower Economic", quasi-English (Mush Mouth) speaking inner-city Black folk.

So, I'm claiming he does diddly squat with his CELEBRITY when it comes to K-12.

When has he promoted a school like Marva Collins? The Harlem Children Zone? African-centered schools? etc.??

Show & Prove, JWC...
You know what; I am tired of the Bullshit!!

Bill Cosby is a fucking clown. Where was his Punk ass during the turbulent 60's, where was he during the civil rights movement, this damn Negro was making people laugh and now in the aftermath of his complete failure he want to accuse the children (who inherited the legacy of scared to death Negroes like him getting rich from making people laugh and ignoring the struggle of our people) of not trying hard and using the resources available to them. You see all these entertainers and athletes that do not give a damn about our community and say ignorant shit like Nelly about keeping politics out of music, this is the kind of Negro Bill Cosby was, all of sudden he is out spoken and have nothing but criticism, I wish we could send his punk ass back to the time when he was a shucking and jiving negro that ignored the struggle of our people and force him to get involved. This I worked hard B.S. he spouting now is heresy coming from someone who was not involved when shit was hot and heavy.
This I worked hard B.S. he spouting now is heresy coming from someone who was not involved when shit was hot and heavy.---Faheem

Boy that sounds awfully self-righteous coming from someone who wasn't there. You don't know what you would have done if you had been. You're selling 'wolf tickets' on Monday morning.

It might be surprising to know, most people did nothing. Most African American-Americans did NOTHING. Some actively worked and spoke out against the Civil Rights Movement, and its leaders, by name.

It is frequently said a person should be evaluated/judged in his time. In his time, Cosby was considered by role model by African American-Americans. He knocked down doors others could not.

You might find in interesting that Arthur Ashe was heavily criticized publicly by Black Panthers types for not 'speaking out'; for not 'joining the fight.' He just hit the little white ball. To him that was the fight. And, as a matter of fact an awful lot of people thought he was one hell-of-a representative for African America.

Many considered what both men were doing as 'joining the fight.'


Some who jump and shout don't have the vaguest idea what they are jumping and shouting for, or why.

If what Cosby did was bullshit, African America can used at least one more like him.

PEACE

Jim Chester
It is frequently said a person should be evaluated/judged in his time. In his time, Cosby was considered by role model by African American-Americans. He knocked down doors others could not.

And what does any of that has to do with addressing issues in K-12 education?

How many schools has he opened or fostered?
How many Marva Collins like schools?
How many Harlem Children's Zone type schools?
How many African-Centered schools?

This is what he's talking about now.
This is what he's opening his mouth about now.
Where are his contributions in this very area?

Everything else is irrelevant!!
(We can definitely appreciate, etc. and he made a difference in those areas but the subject HE CHOOSES TO BRING UP is the very one I'm judging him by.)

Where is his foundation for Black schools to rival the Voucher foundation?

These are very simple questions...
The fact that you, JWC, keep trying to evade them with Cosby's Uptown Saturday Night celebrity shows your ineptitude, partisanship, and intellectual impotence.

Again, what has Cosby specifically done for these "Lower Economic" people he upbraided (as they say) with the enormous stature and respect his celebrity has brought him?

If you can't name something specific while referencing him being a role model by way of Hollywood then you should dismiss yourself from this conversation. Exactly how many kids today in the inner-city revere Bill Cosby like you do?

Keep in mind that they haven't exactly grown up on Cosby, except maybe in syndication. So, you might want to make comments that are appropriate "to the time". That's not saying that Cosby isn't popular or whatever. That's getting you to understand that these kids today may have others they view as role models than Cosby. Cosby is more from our generation not theirs, IMO.

And, as far as knocking down doors...
Let's compare Cosby to say Spike Lee...
Let's see if we can gather how many people on the street respect which one of those brothers more for their *direct* involvement in community affairs. Care to compare?? (Two people in the same field, right?)
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quote:
It is frequently said a person should be evaluated/judged in his time. In his time, Cosby was considered by role model by African American-Americans. He knocked down doors others could not.



I could have sworn Bill Cosby is still alive and complaining RIGHT NOW...So is it still not "his time"? He must feel it is to be commenting and complaining about current conditions. How dare any of us complain about anything and simultaneousely PUT IN NO WORK to change precicely what we are complaining about. That is called hypocracy.
quote:
Boy that sounds awfully self-righteous coming from someone who wasn't there. You don't know what you would have done if you had been. You're selling 'wolf tickets' on Monday morning.

It might be surprising to know, most people did nothing. Most African American-Americans did NOTHING. Some actively worked and spoke out against the Civil Rights Movement, and its leaders, by name.



JW, you lament that I do not know what I would have done but then you lament that people are evaluated in their time. Well my time is now and I am involved at a level probably exceeding my influence based on me not being a celebrity; however Bill Cosby chose not to have a voice when he could have had one based on him being a celebrity. This was during a time where athletes and many actors did speak out on behalf of Black men and women.

Bill Cosby speaking as he is speaking now is like Michael Jordan giving millions to HBCU's in about ten years and then a short time after that start attacking Black children and Black parents, after being apolitical and non caring when his star was at its height. Bill Cosby has faith in the system and that faith is misplaced. He honestly believes that Black folk problems are all self made and just by getting an education our problems will go away. It is those of us who have succeeded in spite of the obstacles in our path that are living breathing contradictions to what he is saying. Education alone will not cut it, our children need to be socially and culturally prepared to face this devil in his back yard and the last thing we need is some newly minted Conscious Black person beating them down.
That's getting you to understand that these kids today may have others they view as role models than Cosby. Cosby is more from our generation not theirs, IMO.---Nmaginate

Cosby is still alive. Last time I looked.

If today's kids see no value in what Cosby said that has to be okay. Tomorrow belongs to them. They can do with it as they will.

I don't want to be accused of revering. But, I have to admit I do respect what he has done, and continues to do. I think he was on target with his comments.

As for support, I don't need to look for buildings to help me with my conclusion.

And, as I said, I think the man does good.

PEACE

Jim Chester
JWC,

The issue is not whether "the man does good".
If that's what you reduce it to then I understand (and already understood) the LOW EXPECTATIONS of your position.

You have yet to detail how "the man" has done good in the very area he keeps opening his mouth. But, I guess that's not a requirement. As long as he looks good on TV.

See this is exactly why your position is weak.
You can't and won't support what you say because you're hoping (as always) on some childish "because I said so" BS to carry your opinion.

I think he was on target with his comments.

Right on target about what??

My comments about him are RIGHT ON TARGET!
Faheem comments about him are RIGHT ON TARGET!!

Now, what???
Cosby: ˜I get jealous' of the Muslims

JWC, is this point of Cosby's "Right On Target"??
quote:
Legendary entertainer Bill Cosby made his return to the city to head a panel discussion on how education can be used to break poverty's chains.

Wearing black trousers and a black sweatshirt with "Parent Power" printed on the front, Dr. Cosby addressed more than 1,000 students, teachers, parents and the public at Newark Vocational High School in the city's central ward, saying that he was "jealous" of the fact that Muslims are able to gain support and have a strong influence on sectors of the community where the police and others can't.

"I want my Christian family to hit the streets and duplicate what they've done," he said. At a similar forum discussion in Springfield, Mass. in August, Dr. Cosby did more than just praise Muslims when he publicly expressed a desire to meet with the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan....


I say... I say... "The Man Does Good"...
"The Man Does Good!!"
BEYOND WHAT BILL COSBY SAID
Theodore Shaw
Director-counsel and president of the NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund Inc.


Bill Cosby is a beloved icon. So it gave me no pleasure to follow him to the stage at Constitution Hall on May 17, the 50th anniversary of Brown v. Board of Education, after listening to his remarks.

For his philanthropy toward institutions that have worked on behalf of African Americans, Cosby was being honored by the three institutions, including the Legal Defense and Educational Fund, that share responsibility for winning the Supreme Court decision that broke the back of American apartheid. In his acceptance remarks, however, Cosby told the well-heeled, black-tie audience that "the lower economic people are not holding up their end in this deal."

Unlike the story of Brown, Cosby suggested, this was not about what white people are doing to us; it was about what black people are failing to do for themselves. His remarks excoriated poor black people for their failure to actively raise their children, to teach "knuckleheads" proper English and for spending hundreds of dollars for sneakers while refusing to spend $200 for the educational package "Hooked on Phonics." Cosby also spoke of "people getting shot in the back of the head [for stealing] a piece of poundcake, and then we run out and we are outraged." And he wondered why more people from these communities were not incarcerated. "God is tired of you," he quipped, "and so am I." I knew, even before I reached the stage, that Cosby's comments would be hijacked by those who pretend that racism is no longer an issue and who view poor black people with disdain. So, departing from my own prepared remarks, I embraced the notion of personal responsibility, at the same time calling attention to problems faced by African Americans that are not self-inflicted.

One example is the now infamous Tulia, Tex., drug sting. With no drugs, no money and no weapons recovered, 10 percent of the black population of this small town was arrested and convicted on the word of one corrupt undercover police officer. The sentences ranged from 20 to 341 years. Only after the Legal Defense Fund and other lawyers represented these individuals in post-conviction proceedings were they released.

Predictably, conservatives are applauding Bill Cosby for saying that the problems of the black community stem primarily from personal failures and moral shortcomings. But just as we in the progressive African American community cannot countenance the demonization of poor people, we must not cede the issue of personal responsibility to ideological conservatives. Most poor black people struggle admirably to raise their children well. Parents, including single mothers, work for low wages, sometimes in multiple jobs, to support their families. Recently Cosby recognized this in a press statement in which he emphasized that he was not criticizing everyone in the "black lower economic classes" but intended to issue a "call to action" and to foster "a sense of shared responsibility and action."

Unlike much of the world, we ignore human rights protections against discrimination on the basis of economic status. As a nation, we wage war on poor people in this country, not on poverty. In many ways we are a nation struggling to maintain our moral compass. Violence and dysfunction in poor black communities are under an especially glaring spotlight. But many of the problems Cosby addressed are largely a function of concentrated poverty in black communities -- the legacy of centuries of governmental and private neglect and discrimination.

Cosby's observations about the senseless violence perpetrated within black communities are undeniable. I do not know anyone who does not condemn it. But Amadou Diallo, shot to death in a hail of 41 bullets by New York police, did not steal a poundcake. He and countless other innocent black people have been killed while unarmed in communities in which policing is driven almost entirely by a "war on drugs" that makes all residents presumptive targets.

Following a recent conversation, Cosby and I agreed on this much: To the extent that he is frustrated and angry about the failure of people to be responsible parents, and about senseless crime and violence, I stand with him; to the extent that we continue to be challenged by the systemic issues of race and racism that the Legal Defense Fund has confronted since the days of my predecessor, Thurgood Marshall, Bill Cosby stands with me.

There is no either/or for anyone who truly works in the interests of African Americans and our nation.
JWC, is this point of Cosby's "Right On Target"??---Nmaginate

Bullseye.

Somehow you seem to have the impression I am against Islam. For the record, my aversion is to organized religion.

Not kinds of religion, or the people who lead them.

I admire much of what NOI does. There is much of what NOI does I don't admire. Further, I think the NOI has a net positive influence on African America...AND is an asset of African America.

I would not join.

NOI does good.

AND i like your new signature. It shows taste.


PEACE

Jim Chester
quote:
Originally posted by James Wesley Chester:

Somehow you seem to have the impression I am against Islam. For the record, my aversion is to organized religion.



I was well aware of that. That's one thing you've made clear. One thing you can and do explain and elaborate on unlike you "Because I said so" position here about Cosby...
I was well aware of that. That's one thing you've made clear. One thing you can and do explain and elaborate on unlike you "Because I said so" position here about Cosby...---Nmaginate

You know of course my position on this Cosby issue doesn't make it true. I intentionally do not use the standard practice of the board to notate my personal opinion.

When I tell my grandchildren, "Because I said so." that's a fact. I never tell a person of majority this. Unless of course, it is true. Such is rarely the case in discussion. There is no authority here.

Once I must say except. In the case of my identity, it most definitely IS Because I say so.


Incidentally, I spent a few years in Y.P. also.

PEACE

Jim Chester
You know of course my position on this Cosby issue doesn't make it true.

That's exactly what I've been saying...

I intentionally do not use the standard practice of the board to notate my personal opinion.

I'm saying you are the Standard Bearer.
Funny how you don't count yourself in the general practice.

Beyond that, I laid out what is, IMO, a square and objective measure by which to judge the Cosby issue. To that? What did you say?

"Seriously, I didn't need a list for my point to be valid... The last time I looked I think I saw at least one K-12 school."

Basically all you did was state your OPINION. And when it was contradicted via my opinion, perspective-objective you copped out by saying the very opinionated and non-verified "I THINK".

Not only that but in post right after that you went on to speak to Cosby's contributions - again praising them as if to revere, deify, exhalt/esteem, etc. - that are irrelevant to the subject matter of Black youths and schools/schooling. The subject matter that you could only at best "THINK" of perhaps merely one or so such contributions which is to say, in other words... you bluffed that BS just to make it seem like you had an argument. Surely, if you knew that for sure then, instead of alluding to Bill As A Role Model, you would have elaborated with or without citation what school(s) Cosby started in order to address K-12 issues.

But, as we see, even now after all this you haven't and earlier you basically refused to do so by virtually saying as you have now "Because I said so"... Now, you just happen to give the pathetic rationale that if you say it... it's true because you don't offer your opinion, you speak straight fact - i.e."Whatever I say is 'true', Because I Said So...[before, I speak the truth/facts]"

Why do you even waste your time with all the not-so-clever evasions?

If you know, for sure (which you never said in such certain terms) of Bill Cosby starting a K-12 schools or funding to efforts to build or maintain one then simply name that school. What's so hard about that?

You're the one claiming to know about it. You're the one defending Cosby's outlandish speeches. You're the one defending his record with the "Lower Economic", inner-city Black youths in terms of him actually doing something directly to address K-12 schooling issues besides running his mouth.

Ante up, JWC! What has he done on that front besides these little speaking engagements?
But, as we see, even now after all this you haven't and earlier you basically refused to do so by virtually saying as you have now "Because I said so"... Now, you just happen to give the pathetic rationale that if you say it... it's true because you don't offer your opinion, you speak straight fact - i.e."Whatever I say is 'true', Because I Said So...[before, I speak the truth/facts]"---Nmaginate

I am having difficulty 'getting' this. i talk about my saying "I think." You reference "Because I said so.."

I don't know how to be more clear. Sorry. I've given you what I think is true. That conclusion is based on the things I've seen and read overtime. It wasn't a research project. Just accumulated information.


Ante up, JWC! What has he done on that front besides these little speaking engagements?---Nmaginate

I tried to meet your need. In a quick search I found what you will find. One of them, I think, addresses, at least part of, your issue of K-12.

http://www.africana.com/research/encarta/tt_074.asp

http://www.africana.com/research/encarta/tt_074.asp

I still think Cosby does good, including in your K-12 delineation.

PEACE

Jim Chester
quote:
Originally posted by James Wesley Chester:
Incidentally, I spent a few years in Y.P. also.


Sorry, I don't know what _ * Y. P. * _ is...

Anyway, since you're too lazy to show some intellectual integrity, fortitude and effort (hmmm... kind of makes your comments on the Benedict College thread a bit curious... lol) this is what I've found in a quick search and I challenge you to find something that says *Cosby started or funds a SCHOOL for Black [inner-city] youth K-12* as you claimed which I contend he has not (though I'll admit I don't know for sure but have no reason to doubt I'm wrong...) and should considering what he has to say, his means - i.e. the drawing power of his celebrity:
quote:
Turning even personal tragedy into an opportunity to educate, Cosby and his wife formed the Hello Friend/Ennis William Cosby Foundation to honor the memory of their son who was killed in a roadside shooting in 1997. The foundation trains kindergarten through second-grade schoolteachers to work effectively with students who have learning differences. Fordham's Graduate School of Education was the first to receive a grant from the foundation. The three-year grant of $758,000 provides 20 full-tuition scholarships each year to "Young Readers at Risk: Identification and Intervention," a program that began last September.

http://www.fordham.edu/Campus_Resources/Public_Affairs/Archives/2001/archive_79.html

Okay. That's something. That's not founding a school for inner-city Black youth to put them in a school situation that elicit parental involvement and stresses "proper English", discipline, etc. That's not even funding a Black school but it is, no doubt, something noteworthy yet hardly specifically ON TARGET - i.e. directed at inner-city schools.
(Note: These teachers could obviously go to any school they want to after they graduate. So... indirect at best but "good" nonetheless.)

What's silly though is how Cosby is deemed to have spoken some "truth" when he's been so carelessly hyperbolic in his statements.
quote:
Cosby: Attentive Parenting is Crucial to Education

WASHINGTON – Entertainer Bill Cosby Wednesday stood by his criticism of poor blacks' behavior while participating on a panel at the opening day of the 34th annual Congressional Black Caucus Foundation Legislative Conference.

"Parents should take responsibility for their children's education," Cosby told a standing room crowd of 400 people that included a representative from BlackAmericaWeb.com. "You can't manage your children using a cell phone. No doubt, if a parent comes and sits in a classroom, the child's game is gone. With all the systemic problems of racism, the solution is parenting."

Not to splice words but we see how Cosby's words betray the title of the article.

I wonder when and how voicing a sentiment(s), however true, because the sum total of THE *solution* to "systemic problems of RACISM".

Yes, good-strong Black parenting single-handedly brought an end to slavery. Good-strong Black parenting ushered forth the post-segregation era... so, of course, Black parenting all by its damn self is THE solution to RACISM.

About the only thing more perverse than that is it consequent reasoning that underlies the views of White racist, that racism is not only Black people's problem but its their (our) fault because if we just act a certain way all them "good" White people wouldn't be racist towards us.

Now, let's see what his co-panelists had to say:
quote:
Said Edelman, "Every child should feel believed in.

I'm sure Cosby's brow beating engender an awful lot of those feelings...
quote:
One of the problems we face in education is the lack of equitable financing. The ˜No Child Left Behind' bill is not equally funded." No Child Left Behind is the Bush administration education policy.

NCLB is also the nomenclature "borrowed" from this sisters efforts... And, of course, Cosby's "Parenting is the answer" creed will solve the funding problems.
quote:
CBC Chairman Elijah Cummings, a Maryland Democrat, said at the close of the 2-hour forum, "We're very concerned about Al-Qaida and terrorism, but the greatest threat to national security is to fail to properly educate our children."

Hmmm...
quote:
Orfield said "Children come to the kindergarten with varying levels of preparation. A great majority are blacks. Segregation continues, not in terms of race, but in terms of quality of schools, quality of teachers and the resources that are provided."

Obviously this panelist wasn't listening... Good-Strong Black parenting in and of itself (apparently) can and will rectify the material needs and quality right along with quality teaching/teachers issue.

quote:
Orfield told the audience that employment, housing and health care gaps all contribute to the gap in achievement.

Well, Orfield missed that memo that informed us all that Black Parenting is the solution to Employment, Housing and Health Care issue. And, of course, Good-Strong Black Parents arise upon the approximate Cosby-ian word command.

quote:
"Eighty three percent of elementary school teachers are white females, and 1 percent are African-American males," said Kunjufu, author of "Countering the Conspiracy to Destroy Black Boys."

He said pedagogy -- the science of teaching -- must be challenged. Kunjufu also advocated for single-gender classrooms.

He said there is a higher success rate when boys and girls are separated. Boys' attention spans are shorter, said Kunjufu, and boys are attentive if the classroom lessons involve more movement, because their attention spans are shorter than girls.

NOW, ALL JOKING ASIDE...
When has Cosby endorsed, funded and/or founded school(s) with, for instance, a Kunjufu model?
If "Black Activists" like Haki Madhubti can start Afrocentric grade school in Chicago, for instance, how come Mr. ON TARGET - and multi-millionaire and popular and cross-over rep - MR./DR. BILL COSBY doesn't have (or seem to have) K-12 efforts specifically and directly aimed at the "Lower Economic" Black youth (some condescending, Elitist, damn near racist language if I ever heard it) to his credit?

That's all I'm asking...
If he's done so, then produce the evidence thereof. Donations to colleges are irrelevant to this subject. Foundations for general things... things that don't address specific issues in specific "Lower Economic", inner-city Black communities are irrelevant.

Where is the evidence that Cosby has done as much as you say, JWC, in this K-12 arena?


http://www.blackamericaweb.com/site.aspx/bawnews/cosby98
quote:
Originally posted by James Wesley Chester:

I tried to meet your need. In a quick search I found what you will find. One of them, I think, addresses, at least part of, your issue of K-12.

http://www.africana.com/research/encarta/tt_074.asp

http://www.africana.com/research/encarta/tt_074.asp

I still think Cosby does good, including in your K-12 delineation.

Don't even try that BS!!

You said categorically that you didn't have to list or respond to my K-12 "delineation". THAT'S THE WHOLE SUBJECT OF HIS CONDESCENDING TALKS... the focus that is. Them bad azz kids with them "ghetto" names, the ones that talk like.... that talk like... the Cosby Kids. You know... Donald, Albert, Russell, Mush-Mouth, Rudy and Co. You know... the ones that can't speak English. Now, y'all know we's can'ts makes it nowheres in the White Mans World if we can'ts speak (the massas) English!
quote:
Cosby told black activists, "Let me tell you something. Your dirty laundry gets out of school at 2:30 every day, it's cursing and calling each other [the N-word] as they're walking up and down the street. They think they're hip. They can't read. They can't write. They're laughing and giggling, and they're going nowhere."

I don't think he was talking about Spelman College YOUNG ADULTS there, JWC. Thanks for providing links to things already determined to be IRRELEVANT to this conversation.

Now, LITTLE BILL??
That's suppose to amount to STARTING, FOUNDING, FUNDING or promoting a [Black] school?? That's suppose to specifically do something for and about those 2:30 p.m. Dirty Laundry, "Lower Economic" kids?? That's suppose to do something about all that "cursing and calling each other [the N-word]"; "think[ing] they're hip"; the problems evident in when "They can't read. They can't write."??

One of them, I think, addresses, at least part of, your issue of K-12.

Really??
This is what I asked you and, as best I can tell, all you can come up with is TV programs and donations to COLLEGES:
quote:
JWC, why don't you list what Cosby has done specifically for all this education he wants young Black kids to have K-12?

Don't stutter... Come right up with the list of things he's done with his stature and celebrity besides speaking. Again, I said K-12.

[1]How many schools has he started?
[2]How many Programs That Work has he promoted and tried to duplicate across the country or regionally in Philly or wherever?


I went on to say/ask:

seriously... you do need to provide documentation and evidence of K-12 school(s) opened, fostered and promoted by Mr. Bill Cosby.

...From what I know, he contributes minimally to that and more towards colleges and other programs and, if at all, towards some Picture Pages, Kids Say The Darnest[sic] Things type of stuff that hardly are directed at "Lower Economic", quasi-English (Mush Mouth) speaking inner-city Black folk.

So, I'm claiming he does diddly squat with his CELEBRITY when it comes to K-12.

[1]When has he promoted a school like Marva Collins?
[2]The Harlem Children Zone?
[3]African-centered schools? etc.??
[/quote]
More to the point:
quote:
And what does any of that has to do with addressing issues in K-12 education?

[1] How many schools has he opened or fostered?
[2] How many Marva Collins like schools?
[3] How many Harlem Children's Zone type schools?
[4] How many African-Centered schools?

This is what he's talking about now.
This is what he's opening his mouth about now.
Where are his contributions in this very area?

Everything else is irrelevant!!
(We can definitely appreciate, etc. and he made a difference in those areas but the subject HE CHOOSES TO BRING UP is the very one I'm judging him by.)

Where is his foundation for Black schools to rival the Voucher foundation?

None of that is meant to downplay or disregard his contributions. They are meant, though, to highlight how much tangible solutions are lacking from what he has promoted.

How has anything you have even thought about "met those needs", JWC?

Show me again the school(s) or Voucher competitive foundations Cosby has founded/funded -- K-12 level -- JWC?? Until you do that you haven't come close. Little BILL is just that... little!

This is what I'm saying he should meet, especially for the amount of mouth he has. But, surprisingly... people who have met this standard (below) don't seem to talk like Cosby. I wonder why that is?
quote:
Two years after founding Third World Press, Madhubuti cofounded an independent school, the Institute of Positive Education, with Carol D. Easton and others....

First housed in two storefronts that are just a block away from the present two-story, red-brick complex, IPE has since split into two institutions with 400 students: the Betty Shabazz International Charter School, which serves K through eighth grade, and the New Concept School, a preschool for two- to four-year-olds.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0HST/is_2_4/ai_83553063/pg_2
-----------------------------------------
Betty Shabazz International Charter School (Betty Shabazz) – Chicago 299
Located in the Grand Crossing community on Chicago's South Side, this K-8 school
balances core instruction with African-centered themes, arts and humanities, and
technology and links students to local community resources as well as those in
South Africa, Brazil, and Ghana. Parental involvement is central to this "maximum
expectation" learning institution.



Any comparable info. or links for Cosby, JWC?
I think that Bill Cosby as an entertainer and Bill Cosby as a person are two different people. Even when he was performing stand-up comedy routines, I never heard him use language that was inappropriate for children or allude to situations or innuendo that were not family friendly.

There are many entertainers who incorporate negative images and concepts into their performances, cash their million dollar checks, keep on walking, and don't look back. They may turn up on MTV cribs, or something, but other than that, I don't see many entertainers doing much for their communities - other than designing sneakers, promoting soft drinks, and the like.

I believe that the turning point in Bill Cosby's life as a person was when his son was brutally murdered. A death in the family - particularly when it is one's only troubled son - tends to change the focus of a person's direction.

If you have never visited his website, it might be helpful to do so. Hello Friend

I don't think that any of us do all that we can to assist those around us in need, and I don't believe that Bill Cosby deserves to be vilified for his statements, personal beliefs, and attempts to cause people to think on a different level.

I am not particularly a fan of Bill's, but I don't like to see anyone represented unfairly. He is only saying the same things that have been whispered around the dining room tables of many for years.

I hope that his foundation does some good, and I hope that he continues to tour and speak with young people. I hear of far more entertainers endorsing and supporting "PETA" than endorsing and supporting young people, and I think we need to give Bill a little credit for attempting to change things in his own little corner of the world.
quote:
2004 Salute to Excellence in Education: Canada challenges black community

Geoffrey Canada challenged black American teachers, parents and communities to take more responsibility for underachieving African-American students and stop accepting failure as an option....

Canada said this devotion to those who struggled and gave their lives so that all black children could receive a decent education led to his creation of The Harlem Children's Zone.

The HCZ recently opened two elementary schools... The HCZ has a staff of more than 650 people and provides everything from child-rearing skills for parents to computer training and employment assistance for teens.

"We decided to save all our children, whether they want us to or not," Canada said....

"If a child is going to be successful, they need reinforcement of values from (1) school, (2) home and (3) community. If you mess with any three of these, (education) performance declines. If all three go bad, you are guaranteed failure," he explained...


The Harlem Children's Zone website

Cosby programs that he's either founded or supported that are remotely comparable to this?
quote:
Originally posted by Sandye:

I am not particularly a fan of Bill's, but I don't like to see anyone represented unfairly. He is only saying the same things that have been whispered around the dining room tables of many for years.

But, see... that's part of the problem.
The "fans" of Cosby try to act like he's saying something new, bold or profound. Something nobody else is saying. And there are plenty of public figures saying it in public. But many of them are not as condescending so perhaps that's what make his statements different. Others must have been missing the Elitism/classism so many of his "fans" deem "ON TARGET!"

quote:
I hope that his foundation does some good, and I hope that he continues to tour and speak with young people... and I think we need to give Bill a little credit for attempting to change things in his own little corner of the world.

Give Bill a "little credit"? Give him a little credit? (I've done that by the way...) But, really, why should anyone (not a "fan" of his/his words) "give him a little credit" when he didn't give much if any "LOWER ECONOMIC" people... the ones "not holding up their end..." any credit?

Please... He wants to be hard. Then we can be hard. And we can dispell this myth that he's like some anomaly amongst entertainers, etc. There's a number of them that donate and have little foundations for things.

I can accept your comments though. You made an attempt to be balanced but this is about setting standards for those public figures like Cosby who are given too much credit and given a pass on the whole issue of expectations. Just as his little speeches places expectations on us all, likewise we can have very pointed (unlike his) expectations for what people like him - as fortunate and accomplished, etc. - should be doing.

All I ask is for him to use his celebrity and notarity to promote those programs like the ones I've mentioned... fundraise, etc. so that those programs can be replicated. That's all I ask. That's the least I can expect. This is not Rocket Science.

Those directly in the business of educating know what the problems are. They, for sure, don't need anyone to preach to them or tell them what's needed. And, obviously, Cosby isn't listening to them. All I'm asking is for him to use his stature to support them.

That's it. He doesn't have to donate not one red cent per se. He doesn't have to do anything any different from what he's doing. That is, he can go around speaking as much as he wants... Matter of fact, that would be right in-line. But, instead of castigating he could actually Accentuate The Positive and promote things that are working instead of Insulting Our Intelligence.

Again, I don't know when voicing SENTIMENTS about what problems are became equivalent to speaking to solutions (or even actually defining the problem accurately and understanding why such things are problems).
No comparison whatsoever. Geoffrey Canada's work is outstanding and to be applauded!

Mr. Canada's life's work has been dedicated to the cause of helping children. Mr. Cosby's life's work has been dedicated to making people laugh. Of course there is no comparison. But as my grandma used to say, "A snowball beats no ball." and I think that Mr. Cosby has done some good things.

Has he out-performed others who chose education and community-based initiatives as their life's work? Of course not, and there is no comparison as far as I am concerned. My point is that he is doing something and that is better than nothing.

________________
Edited to say that I actually agree with you far more than I disagree. You have made some very good points.
He is only saying the same things that have been whispered around the dining room tables of many for years.

Also, that would be a problem. Here it is Dr. Cosby is suppose to be someone with a particular interest and concern about education and he's saying the same thing the [uneducated] masses are saying?? I mean think about that?

Shouldn't he have more than just mere soundbites to offer? Shouldn't his words appeal to more than our emotional attitudes and sentiments?

He deserves ALL the flak he's getting.
He's Grown Azz Man... to use the words of another comedian. He opened his mouth, and just like the "Lower Economic" people his words were directed towards and those who were categorically in agreement with everything he said suggested, HE NEEDS TO TAKE HEED to what's coming his way.

Those of us "against" what he said are only voicing what's been said for years too.

Nevertheless, so very much unlike Cosby, none of us, however lacking our efforts are, we aren't going around the country more or less saying like a White racist "this is the problem with YOU people."

So, no, NO BREAKS HERE... No little credit for the outrageous charges he has made without the requisite solution-substance.

He wants to Air Dirty Laundry... Then he better come up with laundry detergeant and some type of cleaning apparatus. And HELLO FRIEND doesn't seem like something that's going to directly address the 2:30 p.m., cursing, hip(hop), "ghetto named" inner-city, "Lower Economic" people.
My point is that he is doing something and that is better than nothing.

My point is that when he opens his mouth about what THE problem is or what the solution is, as loud and as boisterous then he better have something to back that up.

If Canada made those statements, then they would have some respectable authority. Hmmm... but (real) educators like Canada don't say things like that. WHY?

My point was not to "compare" them. If you read what I've said from start-to-finish, I'm not saying Cosby should be doing the same things or should have the same things to add to his credit. I've said that he should use his celebrity and interest in education which stretches back to when I was a child 30+ years ago (Captain Kangaroo - "Picture Pages") to lend support economic and otherwise to programs like Canada's.

That's the measure and standard, especially when he wants to go on a nation-wide tour pontificating as he has in as condescending a way as he has.

And, while you're saying "he's doing something", I'm saying for the amount of mouth he should do more to make his actions meet up with all that mouth. The other entertainers, etc. that you're talking about aren't going around pointing fingers. Cosby has been given his credit. Now, "THE BILL" is due. It's time for him to pay up for his mouthing up.

If he wants to speak up like he has... and judge like he has then there are consequences to that. When you judge ye shall be judged. And what I'm saying, with his stature instead of (just) castigating all those entertainers who don't do anything (yet like many of us 'grew up' on Cosby and respect him), all those White people that esteem him, etc. he could get a lot of them to Put Their Money Were Their Mouths Are (Or Even Where Their Thoughts Are Not). When America's Dad Talks... Everybody listens, right?

How come Cosby doesn't and hasn't turned his talk into fundraising efforts for the Canada's (HCZ's) of the world?

That's what I'm questioning.

Yes, we can all do more and this is something Cosby and others so situated both in stature and concern can do and what should be expected of them just like Black parents should be expected to parent (well) and kids to get their lessons, etc.

Goes with the territory. If he doesn't want the flak... then he should keep his mouth shut, run his foundation and continue doing the positive things he's been doing. He's gets plenty of recoginition for all of that I'm sure. But he's not going to get a pass anymore than he's giving anyone else or that we expect to be given. PERIOD!
After finally having a chance to sit down and read everyone's comments (with the exception of JanesT, whom I ignored altogether) I find that everyone has a point Smile and although the views are differing, (to say the very least) I can agree with almost everybody to some extent. This was a very interesting discussion!!!

I tried to get a bead on Bill's philanthropy ... just how much he's given and to whom, and I couldn't really find anything comprehensive, other than the $27-or-so million to Spelman and various other smaller million dollar contributions. As such, I learned a long time ago being a sport's fan that very few people know or can know how much an entertainer, sports figure, artist, or just those with any real money give or give back to the community at large. Acts of kindness and generosity are given out all the time ... the media doesn't report it, the givers nor receivers tell it, and so there's really no way to know. And that goes for contributions of money, time, name and any other way of giving.

However, given Bill's celebrity and wealth, I'd definitely agree that whatever he's done, he could definitely do more. And I'm sure it could be put in better places at better times for the benefit of many more.

On the other hand, too many of us who have 'made it' or otherwise have tons money don't give or give back to our communities, become activists, or otherwise help when and where help is needed. We hit those that do with 'You did that? Well, but you didn't do this' or 'Yeah, you should have/could have done this.' So, it's my belief that those that do do something at all should be looked upon with some kind of positivity. As Sandye said, doing something is better than doing nothing at all.

Bill is being chastised more or less for making a "blanket and accusatory statement." But a blanket statement is a highly subjective thing and I can't determine the absolute here. I haven't seen nor read anything where he used any of the adjectives "all...", "every...", "each" or "only...." But, that even bypassing that, he made a statement that could not possibly have been construed to include all, every or only low-income Black parent(s). His statement, if taken out of being condemned to have been all-inclusive of the entire race, was true. Which nobody really disputes ... however, very few confront or address.

For instance, at work the other day in a conversation, someone said, "Black people make the best parents." I inwardly threw up my chest, appreciative of the credit that was due me and mine ... of course I couldn't agree more!! I mean, it's true, right?? Big Grin But, there's no way that that statement is true of each and every Black parent. Or Black people as a whole. I know that. Everybody knows that!! So how wide a net does that one statement cover?

He said the low-income (Black) parents are dropping the ball in raising their kids. He said too many of our children are uneducated and will end up in jail before they end up in college. He said more Black children and their parents need to speak better English, and pick up books and read them. This is true. Period.

I figure Bill has just as much right to say that as I do. His wealth and celebrity doesn't make him any better or worse than me. Nor does my lack of those things make me any better or worse than him. Of course, there are parents of every race and/or economic standing who are good parents and those that are bad parents. That's a no-brainer. Low-income does not equal Black. Black does not equal low-income. Why some make an unequivocal comparison of that is confusing to me. That being rich or famous means that you can say some things but not others is confusing to me. When a rapper refers to women as a b*tch or a hoe, are they referring to all women? Their mothers? Sisters? Wives? Me? How wide a net that that statement cover?

I think the real shame here is that while arguing about shooting the messenger, it is the message that has been blown to bits.
Bill Cosby doesn't have a message. He has a condescending gripe. (The most publicized comments that started this.)

Anyone ignorant enough to say the "Lower Economic" people in the same cold and detached way a BackWater RACIST would has no message of value when translated into to real people terms. I have a lot that I disagree with him. His statements are no more true about Blacks or even Lower Economic people than anyone else. A big part of the ":Acting White" and Black culture and family "devaluing education" dealt with middle class families... middle class families where parental involvement was lacking or not up to par.

So, no! Bill Cosby's message is shot full of irrational holes!

There was no need for him to say "all". Whether he did or not that doesn't erase the broad idiotic brush he painted with.

If he had/has a message he and all those that thinks he does/did need to learn how to be accurate and lend real perspective to the subject matter. And that accuracy, IMO, had little to do with whether he said "all" or whatever.

I listed his stupid statement that basically said Parenting Will End or Alleviate Racism (or however you would favorable phrase it for him). With such simplistic thinking like that, to promote him as a Man With A Message is to Insult My Intelligence. None of us need Bill Cosby to tell us Black people need to be better parents. It didn't take Bill Cosby for us to recognize that. So with that said, I guess we're suppose to glory in him Preaching To The Choir?

Or are we the type of Church Members who loves it when pastor condemns the "other" members in the church? I guess we get off on that...
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quote:
He said the low-income (Black) parents are dropping the ball in raising their kids. He said too many of our children are uneducated and will end up in jail before they end up in college. He said more Black children and their parents need to speak better English, and pick up books and read them. This is true. Period.


Refer to LOGIC and How To Make A Sound Argument 101.

TRUE PREMISES do not automatically make for a sound argument or sound conclusions. PERIOD!!

If everything he said was so true?
Where were the facts to illustrate his points?
And why did he need to exaggerate and say silly stuff (when not joking by any stretch of the imagination) to bring home his points?

Take everything he said and then tell me was it pinpoint accurate on the issue. Man... All he did was the Sunday morning preaching racket where you list a sin (and, DUH! since people sin) and then WOW!! all of a sudden his message is "true". Please!!

What he had to say was so off that if a White person said it we all know we would be saying they're racist and "hate" Black people (or at least think it). That's exactly how condescending it was.

Yes, technically he could be "right" or "true" (in the underwhelming preacher talking about sin/sinners kind of way.... WOW!!! He must have special powers to actually know what sins people commit) but that doesn't make his whole presentation and the whole gist of his "message" right.

I would expect a whole lot more from him. He should speak well above and have more insight than anyone of us. And, while he's saying who's not doing their part, just as you did he should be simultaneously saying how piss poor the job, as you said, that those who "made it" have done INCLUDING himself.

Instead of talking about building our own instituions to facilitate this all he has is condemnation in the old tongue lashing cause I say I love you kinda of way. Something that's so out of step with his Huxtable persona that's too damn ironic to mention. But somehow I managed...

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