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Pac wasn't saying anything different from what everybody else was saying. I try not to take him too seriously, but when I do, I end up noticing that Pac contradicts himself alot. It's "Hit 'em up" one moment, then he's bitchin' & moanin on "That's the way it is" about how he don't see any changes in the community. Dude didn't know if he was "thuggin" or "huggin".
The thing about Tupac is his life was much more exemplary. His mansion was full of hangers-on and other people who would otherwise be homeless, who gave him a sob story or who he saw on the street and he took them in with no questions or expectations. He was nearly arrested for interfering with police brutality on the side of the road. Just saw something going down, pulled his car over and tried to stop it. He was, as they say, Bout It! I think he went back and forth between trying to be commercially successful vs. intellectual, "down" vs. conscious, and wasn't very good at finding a way to be both, but IMO he made a noble effort. And he was so smart.

I like Biggie too, though (although purely for his music and not at all for the way he lived his life). But if I had to choose, I would pick Tupac.
quote:
Originally posted by Max:
Pac wasn't saying anything different from what everybody else was saying. I try not to take him too seriously, but when I do, I end up noticing that Pac contradicts himself alot. It's "Hit 'em up" one moment, then he's bitchin' & moanin on "That's the way it is" about how he don't see any changes in the community. Dude didn't know if he was "thuggin" or "huggin".


Max, this is the point of what makes Tupac great. We ALL contradict ourselves. Being complex and self-contradictory is quintessentially human! We all want to love the world but the truth is there'll be at least one person that we hate. We all want to uplift and idealize women but you know a lot of us brothas have serious issues and a dawg gets horny... What makes Pac great is that he was unafraid to put all that out there. The best and worst. That's why I personally relate to Pac more than Biggie. Pac expresses my own inner contradictions. Once and for all (because I get tired of the "2Pac contradicts himself" BS): NO GREAT ARTIST IS CONSISTENT Smile
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While I appreciate the notion that great artists struggle with inherent contradictions, Pac, nonetheless, never struck me as that "exceedingly" talented artist who possessed what his contemporaries lacked. Pac's verbal style wasn't nearly as slick & electrifying as people made it out to be. And his message? He spitted the same shit his entourage was spittin. Dude was OK, but Frenchy's remark demonstrates how the stuff he did outside the studio helped (ALOT) in the record sales department as well as getting front-page attention (my 2 cents). ...Good actor though.


Peace...

Not much into rap, admittedly.... But for someone on the outside.... I was often offended and disgusted by Biggie's lyrics... Yet, even I could recognize that as far as abilities as a rapper his technical skills seemed better than Tupac.... Tupac often offended and disgusted me as well... but less often than Biggie... So, what pushes him over the mark as my choice is the weight of the good he has done... and I don't mean outside of the studio. When Tupac rapped about conscious or positive things.... I was really moved.... and could really feel his passion and his delivery touched me.... I guess in the end that is what its all about for me.... and perhaps many others.... He was tolerable, because he could tap into the best of us and explain away our pain and in the midst of this give hope.... When he was good, he was real good, but when he was bad.... he was just like all the rest.....


Peace,
Virtue
How strong is the rap i.e. lyrics without the music behind it.

Take away the music from many raps songs and what do you have...not much...usually just a lot of cursing...to me if you can take away the music and the lyrics can stand on their own and "say something" then that is real rap.

Biggie was alright but how BIG would he be if not for Puffy's musical contribution?

That was why I asked the question about "poets" like Common, Mos Def, Jill Scott etc being called rappers.

I think TuPac TRIED to take things to a higher level...I think he got caught up in the "hype" trying to promote an "image" and it turned out to be a mistake.

I really liked the movie TuPac Resurrection...I think the brother is still alive to be honest Big Grin
I heard that some black colleges are actually including Pac in their music curriculum - a class strictly devoted to Pac's "work". Roll Eyes Pac was a prolific writer, but one must not mistake that for being an inspired one.

I like rap music, but the current state it's in, kinda sucks.

You're right Mid Man, without music, rappers would suck more than usual, but lyrically, Biggie is the superior rapper. Common n' them could be considered rappers per se, but since the term rapper has become so synonymous with that in-yo-face-with-a-can-o-mace-edginess, Jill Scott n' them aren't the first people you think of when you hear the word 'rapper'; which is just fine, cuz conscious, intelligent artist like Jill n' them shouldn't be grouped with 50 n' them..since their messages are worlds apart.

BTW, Jill Scott is fine & sexy, and I want to nail her in the worst way...just thought I'd throw that in there. Big Grin
I saw a documentary that talked about Biggie and Tupac. What struck me was that everyone talked about Biggie's ability to roll into the studio, hear the beat, blaze up and lay down a track ... no notes, no script, no "damn, let's try that again."

That is skill/talent. Sure he talked about thuggin', robbin', and sex; but wasn't that his life, prior to rap?
Tupac in my opinion was the best that ever done it. Biggie was nice he was a typical New York Mc,but back basically expressed the spirt of the young black male strugglin in a society that is hell bent on destroying him. He is anger,rage, passion, intelligence,strong, insecure, anxious, paranoid, all at the same time.From reading these threads I can tell not many have not listened to alot of tupac material, he has over 200 songs. he stayed in the studio and his ability to change his delivery and style is remarkable. The brother was genius at what he did,

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