quote:
JWC: I gave you the first item on my list. I doubt that my list and your list are the same, but you imply that is BS.
Frankly, I don't have a list, JWC.

I don't even share your view about BLACK PEOPLE BEING THEIR OWN WORST ENEMIES. That should be clear. For me to have a list that falls under that heading, I would have to agree with that presumption. I don't.

What confused you about that?

FOR THE RECORD:
The BS of yours I'm talking about is not your list but your usual, IMO, tactic to avoid explaining your position.

IMO, I don't know:
WHAT'S THE POINT IN HAVING A POSITION IF YOU CANNOT AND WILL NOT EXPLAIN IT AND DEFEND IT IF NECESSARY.
quote:
"Running" was to indicate there are more items on the list.
Okay, if I can convey this as nicely as you want me to, could you please give a complete list and/or address the more pressing question of how those items (even just on the TWO you listed) are indicative of your thesis... (which I don't agree with)?

"BLACK PEOPLE ARE THEIR OWN WORST ENEMIES"

Please? Thank you.
quote:
You fail/refuse to directly address the first item.
Frankly... I'm at a complete loss for what you feel "ADDRESSING" your item(s) mean... I think the following was me addressing those items. If not DEFINE, DESCRIBE... tell me what "addressing" your items entails. Please.
quote:
  • [1]Voting Rights Act

    - What? Are there African-Americans in favor of repealing it? HUH?

    ... I mean you say we're "our own worst enemies" that implies that we are 'working DIRECTLY against our own interest'. You can show me how I might be wrong in deducing that... Also, DEMONSTRATE how that is so on this issue...

    [I.E. - How are we working directly against our own interest on the Voting Rights Act issue?]


  • [2] "BEING BLACK..."

    Okay, to make it clear, I'm not going to make assumptions about what you mean and I'm definitely not going to draw conclusions that may or may not be what you intend. (READ: I can't and I won't read your freakin' mind. SPELL THE SH*T! OUT!)

    How are we WORKING DIRECTLY AGAINST OURSELVES on that issue?

  • KEY WORDS:
    • RESOLUTION -
    • the act or process of reducing to simpler form
    • the act of analyzing a complex notion into simpler ones
    • the act of answering : SOLVING
    • the act of determining

    • ADDRESS(ing) -
    • dutiful and courteous attention [*paid to a subject]
    • readiness and capability for dealing (as with a person or problem) skillfully and smoothly

    You can show me how, against those definitions I have not "addressed" what you offered. I'm sure you can argue how "skillful, smooth, and courteous" I was but I think that's very subjective.

    I would like for you to tell me how you have worked towards a "resolution", again, against the definitions above. You can also demonstrate how I was not, as well...

    Thank you...
    JWC: I am interested in understanding how you came to believe and actually utter that black people, rather than a white power structure perpetuated for centuries, are our own worst enemy?

    who has the power? How can the powerless be enemies to themselves?
    quote:
    Originally posted by negrospiritual:
    JWC: I am interested in understanding how you came to believe and actually utter that black people, rather than a white power structure perpetuated for centuries, are our own worst enemy?

    who has the power? How can the powerless be enemies to themselves?
    Too hard, too tough of questions NS!

    I've been trying since he started posting her to get him to explain things he says but mostly what he does is obfuscate and (a new word for me similiar to that):
      ad·um·brate
    • to give a sketchy representation or outline of
    I kind of like that a-DUMB-rate...
    But I guess I should be a lot nicer... winkgrin
    [/QUOTE]SHAME! JWC how dare you try to unload that same bullshit upon our heads as white politicians, social commentators, powerstructure.

    The worst enemy to blacks is white supremacist ideology (which does infect the mind of many blacks), bar none,[/QUOTE]

    Yeah! IT'S AAAALLLLL WHITEY'S FAULT! Mad
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    quote:
    Originally posted by EgbertSouse:

    Yeah! IT'S AAAALLLLL WHITEY'S FAULT! Mad
    You know... EGGY!

    You have a point!
    (It's about time... You've been scanning the board ferociously, anxiously awaiting the opportune post for you to say that... GET A LIFE! Silly Rabbit!)

    Of course, you would ignore the clause "[an ideology] which does infect the mind of many blacks". And, obviously like a child you feel that you some one is picking on you by default and that you are somehow automatically implicated in the White Supremacy Ideology.

    Perhaps you really do have a point.

    Considering that the White Supremacy Ideology has it's impetus with "WHITEY" then that would be true. It would be "WHITEY'S" fault. And if YOU along with others adhere to the many rudiments of that ideology then, I must say that you are a party to that.

    However, I am sorry, though, that you feel guilty and therefore feel the need to post here in order to deal with your anxiety because you feel like someone is blaming you. Perhaps one day you will come to grips with the unfounded reason why you feel like you need to post here.

    All you have to do is:
    [1] Grow up and stop taking things personal that don't implicate you; and
    [2] most importantly, don't subscribe to that ideology.

    Then there would be no reason to feel and act on that guilt and/or anguish/anger/hate you feel.

    Guilt is what brought you here and brings you back... It's a funny thing. You come here crying for attention. "Somebody hear me!" "Somebody answer me!"

    My friend... There is help for you...
    Seek the TRUTH and the TRUTH will set you free. Big Grin

    [This message was edited by Nmaginate on January 05, 2004 at 05:05 PM.]
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    quote:
    Originally posted by negrospiritual:
    JWC: I am interested in understanding how you came to believe and actually utter that black people, rather than a white power structure perpetuated for centuries, are our own worst enemy?

    negrospiritual:

    Thanks for the very focused responsed. I wish I could do it that well.

    I have come to believe that we have progressed to the point that the active/operating power of the European American power structure gains the majorr portion of its leverage from our failure/refusal to exercise our political power,

    I also think a part of the reason this continues to exist is habit and convenience. We have become so accustomed to saying "'Charlie' did it.", we are less likely to look to ourselves for the authority to fix things. That power structure that represses us operates in full view, and with our lack of either interest or response.


    who has the power? How can the powerless be enemies to themselves?


    The European Americans control the power in our society, but not all power. We, African American-Americans, are not without power. It is seldom however, that we will use it.

    Granted, we can't be effective in all instances. We can however make reversals real in some instances. In other instances, we may be able to effect partial change.

    To the extent that we allow ourselves to be abused, we are indeed, our own worst enemy.


    PEACE

    Jim Chester

    You are who you say you are. Your children are who you say you are.
    address the more pressing question of how those items (even just on the TWO you listed) are indicative of your thesis... (which I don't agree with)?

    "BLACK PEOPLE ARE THEIR OWN WORST ENEMIES" --

    Nmaginate:

    My list was:

    1. Our silence on the Voting Rights Act of 1965, and

    2. My color ("black") being WHO I an.

    I'll start with No.2

    I do not accept "black" as the definer of WHO I am. I know I'm being very repetitive here. I've said this to you/for you a number of times. It won't change. I am "black". Refusing to allow "black" to be used as my identity by others does not mean I deny the right to others.

    There doesn't seem to be much more to say about that. As I've said before, of all the things I am being "black" is among the least significant in my perception of myself. By the way, being "black" becomes important only when I have to function as an American.

    America refuses to see me, or address me in any other way. Until I demand it. It is only then that it stops. But I have to do it everyday. I do.

    Sorry, I have to run an errand. I'll be back.

    Back.

    The other item: We are our own worst enemy when we refuse, not fail, refuse (my definition: not reacting when you know you are being acted upon.) to speak out against a denial of a protection enabled by the United States Constitution. And there is no doubt we know.

    The Congressionsl Black Caucus knows. The latest message, by way of "blackcommentator" is CBC knows, but says, "There's plenty of time, and besides this Congress is not good one in which to do this." This says to me that CBC not only knows but has know for 21 years, and now is not the time to do this just as it has not been for the 21 previous years. DUH~!!!!!!!

    The NAACP knows. The President of the Washington D. C. Branch told me personally, and face-to-face. "You're wrong Jim. We're working on it with members of Congress. This Congress is not the one to do this with." My reply was, "If you are working with Congress, why don't you tell someone?" His reply? "Who would we tell." WHO WOULD WE TELL???!!!!!!!! I said, "Me!!!"

    He smiled, shooked his head, and said, "No,no,no." "We have everything under control. I am the lobbyist for NAACP. It's what I do."

    REALLY???????!!!!!!!!!!!1

    For 21 years!!

    To me, that's a problem. It is a "black" problem. For "blacks". By "blacks".

    This turkey is acting in our name!! Yours and mine. AND GETTING PAID.

    PEACE

    Jim

    PEACE

    Jim Chester

    You are who you say you are. Your children are who you say you are.

    [This message was edited by James Wesley Chester on January 07, 2004 at 08:46 AM.]
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    Nice topic. Well I will say this. White Supremacy is our worst emeny.Now with that said ,we do shoot ourselfs in the foot a lot. There are areas we can change and improve on ourselves that would change our situations tremendously.

    1.Control the education of our children.
    2.Support and operate black owned business, and co-ops, in our communities or where ever they might be.
    3.We must stop the influx of drugs into our communities,and we cannot continue to allow the thug life to be perpetuated in our streets.

    "I AM BECAUSE WE ARE"
    4. We must hold our black males accountable for their actions and their responsibility to our children, our women, our communities and themselves.
    5.We must continue to push the issue of human rights on the world stage , and continue to collaborate and build relationships with our people throughout the diaspora and around the globe.

    "I AM BECAUSE WE ARE"
    quote:
    Originally posted by Knowledgeseeker:

    Nice topic. Well I will say this. White Supremacy is our worst emeny. Now with that said ,we do shoot ourselfs in the foot a lot. There are areas we can change and improve on ourselves that would change our situations tremendously.

    1.Control the education of our children.
    2.Support and operate black owned business, and co-ops, in our communities or where ever they might be.
    3.We must stop the influx of drugs into our communities,and we cannot continue to allow the thug life to be perpetuated in our streets.
    4. We must hold our black males accountable for their actions and their responsibility to our children, our women, our communities and themselves.
    5.We must continue to push the issue of human rights on the world stage , and continue to collaborate and build relationships with our people throughout the diaspora and around the globe.


    "I AM BECAUSE WE ARE"
    Thank you KS!

    To say that we have problems and longstanding issues even to the extent that we do "shoot ourselves in the foot" (you could define how that is so) does not equate to "being our own worst enemy".

    It seems that some think that we should be able to solve our problems quickly or easily. I ask you to seriously analyze how the "problems" in this nation as a whole are being "solved". Are they happening overnight? I think not. And there are just as many longstanding problems of in almost every category KS named... 'And they run the damn country and have the whole society structured to benefit them'

    JWC...

    How is that you can easily raise a coherent issue from your perspective about the Voting Rights Act but after all this talk about what "Black" means to you all we have are a bunch of broken/awkward sentences, incomplete thoughts, metaphors and assumptions that we - most of whom do not have a problem with being "Black" or seeing it as everything we need it to be - know what the hell you mean?

    What is so bad about being "Black" or being called "Black" in your eyes?

    Also.... where is the rest of your list and more importantly how is the "Black" issue evident of "US" being our own worst enemies?
    You still have not demonstrated that! Your take on the Voting Rights Act I will have to accept because you have a reasoning and clear rationale behind it. Such is not clear on the "Black" thing and it never has been to me. So saying that you've "said it before" only means that you've made garbled statements like this over-and-over, IMO:
    quote:
    I do not accept "black" as the definer of WHO I am. I know I'm being very repetitive here. I've said this to you/for you a number of times. It won't change. I am "black". Refusing to allow "black" to be used as my identity by others does not mean I deny the right to others.

    BREAKDOWN:
    • 1] I do not accept "black" as the definer of WHO I am.

    • 2] I am "black".

    • 3] Refusing to allow "black" to be used as my identity by others does not mean I deny the right to others.

    How does No. 1 & No. 2 jive?
    First you say you refuse to were the title and be defined by it (not offering your definition of it and what makes it so repugnant) -- THEN -- you go right along and claim it, albeit with some reservations I guess.

    Why do you always tend to contradict yourself?
    I mean... seriously go back and read it in its entirety and figure how that is suppose to make sense to us. It doesn't matter whether or not you understand it. WHAT WE HAVE HERE... IS A FAILURE TO COMMUNICATE! (on your part)...
      Note: I can't read that whole paragraph without stopping to wonder if you meant to say exactly what you said.
      'Is it a misprint or typo?'
      'Is this suppose to build off something else said?'
      'Why the double-speak?'
      'Ahh... was that suppose to make sense?'
      (To name a few)
    Now, about No. 3...
    If you don't "deny the right to others" who may choose to call themselves "Black" and are secure in all it means and how it functions... HOW CAN YOU SAY THIS ITEM IS EVIDENT OF US BEING OUR OWN WORST ENEMY?

    Again, you haven't demonstrated how allowing ourselves to be called "Black" is against our best interest or how we are actively degrading that and whatever meanings we assign to it. OTHER PEOPLE should never determine or even influence WHO or WHAT you are and necessarily what you aspire to be.

    So, obviously I disagree with your position as-I-know-it about being "Black" but you have said very little to illustrate how being "Black" is "bad" and not at all possible of being at least as good as any other naming-concept. Maybe you got me confused with FAHEEM. He made some salient points about why he thought "Black" was/is still alright.

    Personally, I'm not hung up on a naming-concept. That seems to be the least of things, IMO. To me, a consistent-coherent ideology/philosophy behind it is most important. So it is incumbent on you to make a logically and thoroughly demonstrated point as to why this makes more sense than that.

    Some of your points are clear - e.g. Exclusivity/Uniqueness, parity, etc. However, your thought process and more importantly self-critique that answers why those things are an issue (as if they are presently absent) are not clear.

    Pratically every naming-concept is on some level problematic. If you think your Ancestrial Nationality is somehow perfect, you only need to check your ego at the door and revisit the response from members here (other than myself) about it. So, even with that, you are right to point out what's problematic in being "Black" in terms of how it functions.

    Nevertheless, I've been asking you to define exactly what is detrimental or degrading about being [called] "Black"... because you seem to suggest that it is a "bad" word like being called Negro/Coloured and by your constant emphasis... N@gger!

    If I'm correct, you haven't spelled out how "Black" is on the same plain as "N@igger" or even Negro/Coloured. That's not to mention that we have been African-American for quite some time now... brotongue
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    "So, obviously I disagree with your position as-I-know-it about being "Black" but you have said very little to illustrate how being "Black" is "bad" and not at all possible of being at least as good as any other naming-concept."
    Nmaginate:


    I didn't say being "black" is bad. As for being a "naming concept", it's a matter of personal choice. As I said, I used it in such a manner for over 25 years. I found it lacking. I told you why I found it lacking. I am however still "black." And proud. But "black" is not WHO I am. "black" is WHAT I am.

    "Black" is the societal antidote to being "white." Both terms are integral to the hegemony of the society we live in. It is a language put in place centuries ago for all the reasons you know.

    I refused to continue to participate.

    I reestablished an ancestral nationality.

    That's where I stand.

    It changes nothing for you.

    It does everything for me.

    PEACE

    Jim Chester

    P.S. l would talk more but I have another errand to run.

    You are who you say you are. Your children are who you say you are.
    quote:
    I didn't say being "black" is bad. As for being a "naming concept", it's a matter of personal choice. As I said, I used it in such a manner for over 25 years. I found it lacking. I told you why I found it lacking. I am however still "black." And proud. But "black" is not WHO I am. "black" is WHAT I am.
    Why are you talking strictly about yourself?
    .... "it's a matter of personal choice" ....
    Perhaps, but this idea of 'BEING OUR OWN WORST ENEMIES" is not! It's a collective - i.e. we are all implicated - thing.

    That's obfuscation on your part to at once speak about something generically then retreat into this "it's a personal..." thing to cover yourself. DEMONSTRATION of the topic at hand please!! And no more of this irrelevant rambling.

    HOW IS BEING [CALLED] BLACK and illustration of how we are actively being "our own worst enemies"? <<< ANSWER THIS QUESTION <<<
    quote:
    "Black" is the societal antidote to being "white." Both terms are integral to the hegemony of the society we live in. It is a language put in place centuries ago for all the reasons you know.
    First, how many times do I have to say that I can't read your mind? NO! I don't know "all the reasons" why you see "Black" as dysfunctional outside of few allusions to why your Ancestrial Nationality off-sets what you see as problematic with the "Black" naming-concept - i.e. the "Black" dysfunction and "all the reasons" over the centuries are, IMO, a different issue or at least a different exploration from what makes it problematic as an 'adequate' naming-concept.

    "Black" not saying enough about "WHO" you are is entirely different from "WHAT" others have tried to associate to you as being "Black". In essence, if you see them as one in the same then you obviously must be accepting what others have done in trying to define you and what they have associated with "Black" or whatever naming-concept. Again, self-critique is in order.... and you can back-up to what it is that you are accepting from others.

    Regardless, I'm not from your generation... so I don't know what your distaste for being "Black" is. You say you are proud to be "BLACK" but then you say you refuse to continue to be called "Black" because of the ramifications/implications of it.

    You keep making statements without explanation and support.

    You weave between being having perhaps understandable Conflict Of Terms to having outright Untenable Contradictions. ***ANTIDOTE***??? Confused See?? You use words that don't convey the meaning you seem to want to express.

    If BLACK is the ANTIDOTE - i.e. cure - and not just the mere opposite or counter-proposition to WHITE then how is it that it falls prey to the death kissed societal construct of the past? I don't know of any cure that does not heal (totally). That's what a cure, an antidote does, right?

    It's too much of that stuff that makes it hard for me to follow you.
    quote:
    ..."black" is not WHO I am. "black" is WHAT I am."
    You restate that time and time again as if it means something to me. I'm still trying to see how you can be "proud" of something you find "lacking" and, with all you criticism of it, act as if you are not saying that something about it is "bad". If it's not good... "for all the reasons [we] know" then how can it be anything but "bad".

    What would you call it? Just lacking?
    Well, refusing to participate, claim, hold on to something indicates something more than mere "lacking", IMO. But that's alright.

    I want you to finally juxtapose the "WHO" and "WHAT" whether side-by-side or not... Give me TWO extensive list of components for each so I can understand how this "BLACK" thing that you are both "proud" of and apparently disheartened/disillusioned by at the same time is only implicated as a "WHAT" and not a "WHO", however limited it may be. (I think there are people who can assert how "Black" can be "WHO" they are.)

    As it has been stated... BLACK is a state of mind, state of being! (i.e. Personal choice or better yet, Black people's choice is that Black is Beautiful.... damn whatever Whites have had to say. It's beyond color! It's metaphor and reality and all encompassing... if you want it to be. I'm pretty sure that's the sentiments of many... Technically, I prefer AFRICAN-American but again, I'm not hung up on a name.)

    What state of mind does it put you in?
    Are you saying that "BLACK" is, like some say about our "slave names", something that White people gave/imposed on us and that is why we should discard it? Is that what the "reasons [we] all know" are all about?

    Has our status changed in any increment since we adopted African-American, in your opinion?
    WHY or WHY not?

    Again, HOW IS "BLACK" (being it or being called it) an illustration of HOW WE ARE OUR OWN WORST ENEMIES? We haven't imposed it on ourselves in a negative light, at least not in any sense that you have mentioned.
    How does it indicate some harm - a negative - we have placed or forced on ourselves?
    <<< ANSWER THIS QUESTION <<<

    It would seem to me that your argument could be something like the repulsion Black CONservatives have to "race" or the use of it... perhaps your idea has a kinship to the "colorblindness" ideas and motivations. I dunno... [IS THAT TRUE?] ...you haven't made it quite that clear (which is to say you reasons for Ancestrial Nationality are clear, eventhough I find them problematic...).

    [This message was edited by Nmaginate on January 07, 2004 at 12:41 PM.]
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    JWC,

    All this hinges on, IMO, perhaps the subtle difference between Arguing For Something VS. Arguing Against Something.

    You have stated in a rational fashion your Argument for Ancestrial Nationality but I cannot differientiate from that your Argument Against "Black". To state one does not cover the other. To make a case for one does not necessarily make a case against the other.

    WHAT ARE YOU REFUSING TO PARTICIPATE IN?
    How does Ancestrial Nationality alleviate/eliminate the "BLACK" Trap? Realistically?

    Are you going to take a different approach to issues because of it?
    FYI......


    Identity Issues and Concerns of Biracial Children:
    May experience a sense of being different (physical appearance, name, foreign birthplace, language, values and beliefs of parents) - often asked by others "What are you?"
    May experience self as not fully belonging to any of the comparison groups
    May have difficulty incorporating two different heritages into one identity
    May experience racism from two ethnic groups
    May have difficulty dealing with integrating two distinct parenting styles and beliefs
    May experience pressure from one parent to identify more with his/her race that with the other parent's.
    Often identify or over identify with one parent and one racial group while developing ambivalence toward the other parent. May feel embarrassed by this other parent's race.
    May have feelings of guilt or embarrassment about family and self-racial differentness.
    May have difficulty finding others who understand their struggle (i.e. parents, peer, or friends).
    May experience social pressure to identify with one group and label self as such (many black children experience pressure to identify as "black" even if they prefer to identify as "white" or "mixed").
    May attempt to separate off aspects of themselves in response to loyalty and acceptance needs.
    May experience or exhibit the following problems: poor academic achievement, off task behavior, poor social skills, negative attitudes about adults, social isolation, "chip-on-the-shoulder" attitudes, aggressive behavior toward parents, sadness and depression, intrafamilial conflicts, substance abuse, psychosomatic disorders, and suicidal ideation and behaviors.
    References:
    quote:
    Originally posted by Nmaginate:
    JWC,

    All this hinges on, IMO, perhaps the subtle difference between Arguing For Something VS. Arguing Against Something.

    The difference between "being for' "and "being against' should not be subtle.


    You have stated in a rational fashion your Argument for Ancestrial Nationality but I cannot differientiate from that your Argument Against "Black". To state one does not cover the other. To make a case for one does not necessarily make a case against the other.

    Being "black" does none of the things done for me by ancestral nationality. Saying my "argument is "black" is a misstatement of my posltion. My argument is that "black" is not WHO I am. I have no argument with being "black." I hope that is not confusing.

    WHAT ARE YOU REFUSING TO PARTICIPATE IN?

    I refused to continue to participate in the color-based system of identifying me, and mine.

    How does Ancestrial Nationality alleviate/eliminate the "BLACK" Trap? Realistically?

    Ancestral nationality distinguishes me from all other Americans in a manner that is clear. It says I am a part of African America which consists only of Americans of unknown African ancestry. It satisfies my need. It negates all argument.

    That's realistic.


    Are you going to take a different approach to issues because of it?


    I don't think I have thus far. Except for clarifying my identity as needed, I don't forsee a need. If there is a challenge to my identity in the issue, yes. The declaration of my ancestral natiionality does nothing to negate, or citicize,or diminish anyone.

    PEACE

    Jim Chester

    You are who you say you are. Your children are who you say you are.
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    quote:
    Originally posted by James Wesley Chester:
    quote:
    Originally posted by Nmaginate:
    JWC,

    All this hinges on, IMO, perhaps the subtle difference between Arguing For Something VS. Arguing Against Something.

    _The difference between "being for' "and "being against' should not be subtle._


    You have stated in a rational fashion your Argument for Ancestrial Nationality but I cannot differientiate from that your Argument Against "Black". To state one does not cover the other. To make a case for one does not necessarily make a case against the other.

    _Being "black" does none of the things done for me by ancestral nationality. Saying my "argument is "black" is a misstatement of my posltion. My argument is that "black" is not WHO I am. I have no argument with being "black." I hope that is not confusing. _

    WHAT ARE YOU REFUSING TO PARTICIPATE IN?

    _I refused to continue to participate in the color-based system of identifying me, and mine._

    How does Ancestrial Nationality alleviate/eliminate the "BLACK" Trap? Realistically?

    _Ancestral nationality distinguishes me from all other Americans in a manner that is clear. It says I am a part of African America which consists only of Americans of unknown African ancestry. It satisfies my need. It negates all argument.

    That's realistic._

    Are you going to take a different approach to issues because of it?


    _I don't think I have thus far. Except for clarifying my identity as needed, I don't forsee a need. If there is a challenge to my identity in the issue, yes. The declaration of my ancestral natiionality does nothing to negate, or citicize,or diminish anyone._


    Again, HOW IS "BLACK" (being it or being called it) an illustration of HOW WE ARE OUR OWN WORST ENEMIES?
    You have several fundamental and valid points Nmaginate. Keep your flow going. upfro
    Again, HOW IS "BLACK" (being it or being called it) an illustration of HOW WE ARE OUR OWN WORST ENEMIES? -- Nmaginate

    Why don't you speak up?

    Excuse me. I thought I had made that clear, but here it is, again:

    If I allow "black" to be my identity (in the eyes of others, but most specifically European Americans), I have done several disservices to myself ("worst enemy"):

    1. I have bought into European America's definition of me, as well as all those who share my history.

    2. I have failed my children in their ability to fullfill their poetential. This because, my children are who I say I am.

    3. I have again helped to maintain the final bondage of chattel slavery which is the denial and preclusion of ancestral nationality to all Americans of unknown African ancestry.

    4. I have validated color as identity to all those who look to me guidance. Believe it or not that's not insignificant.

    That is enough to be definitive. I hope these are "illustrations". They are certainly examples of "worst enemy."

    If you have another defintion for "worst enemy", so be it.

    Some think the European power system is our worst eneny. I contend that most of that domain is given sustaining support by Americans of unknown African ancestry. In many, if not most, instances African American-Americans have the ability to defeat the intent of such actions I gave two examples in recent posts. Oddly, no one denies their validity. You acknowledged the fact. But there is no comment, no expression of concern. Nothing about the issue itself. There is comment, and challenge for my concern. It's like a contest without a point. That's weird. And I would contend,another example of the our inertia against ourselves.

    PEACE

    Jim Chester

    You are who you say you are. Your children are who you say you are.

    [This message was edited by James Wesley Chester on January 08, 2004 at 04:50 AM.]


    [This message was edited by James Wesley Chester on January 08, 2004 at 05:26 AM.]


    [This message was edited by James Wesley Chester on January 08, 2004 at 06:36 AM.]
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    I see the issue, I think some of us wants to be destinquished as african american. We dont want to be called black because it makes us the same as other blacks. We want African American to be some type of destinct group, with its own culture. But i submit that what happend to us in american happend throughout the diaspora as well as on the continent, we are not special. Seems to me a lot of us want to hold on to the Eurocentric or american ideology but to clean it up and make it politically correct the add the african part to say "im cool i kinda identify with my african past" but i really cant pinpoint where im from so that seperates me. thats the age long arguement europeans have been using for centuries to keep africans in the diaspora seperated from the continent. There is great work done by Howard University on DNA matching. And as of now you can have your DNA matched to a bank of all african tribes , and find out exactly what tribe you came from and the general area you are from. See a lot of people dont want to make that connection, they really are comfortable with the american way of life, and they really buy into that ideology ,knowing full well that the reason this county is so grate is because of the cheap african labor and the raping of the resources. Also this is not pointed at JWC, its a general statement.

    "I AM BECAUSE WE ARE"
    I don't think that I see being called black as relating to us being our own worst enemey. . .but I do think that its often hard to explain why we consider ourselves either this or that.
    This is my reasoning for considering myself an African American and not merely a black person:

    1. My ancestors are from the continent now called and considered Africa.

    2. Black is an adjective; only a description of a person place or thing. I am more than an adjective, I am THE PERSON, the person of African descent whose physical description is perceived to be black.

    3. It was Europeans that told us and the world that we were black, negroes, niggers, etc., when they had no right to "name" our so called race.

    4. It does not matter if I cannot pinpoint the exact country, village, and tribe that I am descended from in Africa, no more than it would matter if I could not pinpoint the exact city, state, and neighborhood that I was born in in America and still be considered an American.

    5. I feel that I am equally both, African and American. No American can tell me that I am not American and no African can tell me that I am not African; otherwise, would a woman cease to be female because she is no longer in the presence of another female; no, she would remain a woman/female no matter where she is; the same as being African descent; my African descent remains regardless of the fact that I am in America and likewise, I would remain an American regardless of the fact that I may be in Africa.
    i.e., I guess I see being African American kind of like being Bi-racial; even if having been primarily exposed to one side as apposed to the other.
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Knowledgeseeker:
    I see the issue, I think some of us wants to be destinquished as african american. We dont want to be called black because it makes us the same as other blacks.

    Knowledgeseeker; Knowledgeseeker;

    Welcome. And thank you for being specific. It's refreshing. But you don't see the issue. At least, with regard to me.

    I am "black." You and anyone else is welcome to call me "black." Both my parents were "black." Both my grandparents were "black." Of course, if you had called my father "black' you would have to fight him. My mother would have reacted similarly. All of my family is "black," except for one falling through the cracks here and there. There is no "separation" from blackness here. I thnk you simply find it to be a convenient rebuttal.


    We want African American to be some type of destinct group, with its own culture. But i submit that what happend to us in american happend throughout the diaspora as well as on the continent, we are not special.

    I submit we are not only special, but unique.We, Americans of unknown African ancestry, certainly are not the only people to have been enslaved.

    We are, however, the only people without an ancestral nationality as a result of the decision of others. If there is another, please inform.

    We are the only Americans without an ancestral nationlity.

    We, Americans of unknown African ancestry, are the only people in the world to be identified ONLY by their color.

    We are the only culture in the world comprised of many points of origin, yet associated with an entire continent, and without distinction.

    We are the only people/culture to have created, out of necessity, a safe-haven in order to survive in the land of their birth.

    We are the only people/culture in the world without a banner/flag specific and unique to themselves and their identity.

    Strangely, we have a national anthem that is different from the anthem of our citiZenship, but its title identifies us by an anthropological designation. We are the only people in the world for which this is true.

    Need I go on???

    We are both special and unique.


    Seems to me a lot of us want to hold on to the Eurocentric or american ideology but to clean it up and make it politically correct the add the african part to say "im cool i kinda identify with my african past" but i really cant pinpoint where im from so that seperates me.

    That's sad. It isn't a matter of "holding on" to something Eurocentric or American. African American is pragmatic truth. We are who we are. We are American by consequence of birth. We are African by consequence of ancestry. We are either American Africans, or African Americans. To pretend anything else is really "stroking the duck." I choose African American, as do most people like me.

    thats the age long arguement europeans have been using for centuries to keep africans in the diaspora seperated from the continent.

    "Africans in the diaspora" is a phrase we toss around rather indiscriminantly. I begin my discussion about African America, because that's who I am. I have come to realize "diaspora" means different things to different people. I have always thought of diaspora as a description of people out of their land of origin against their will. There are also those who leave their country for fear of poliltical threat. I had applied diaspora only to the people of the transatlantic slave trade, and their descendants. Clearly a very narrow view, and admittedly self-serving.

    I am not aware however that the denial of recognizing ancestral nationality was a part of the experience of others. I simply don't/dlidn't have the knowledge.


    There is great work done by Howard University on DNA matching. And as of now you can have your DNA matched to a bank of all african tribes , and find out exactly what tribe you came from and the general area you are from.

    That's a great new benefit of the genome project. Such information will be good to know.

    See a lot of people dont want to make that connection, they really are comfortable with the american way of life, and they really buy into that ideology ,knowing full well that the reason this county is so grate is because of the cheap african labor and the raping of the resources. Also this is not pointed at JWC, its a general statement.

    I am American. I am comfortable with/in the American way-of-life. I also know the exploitation, oppression, repression applied to Americans of unnknown African ancestry made America what is. That does not mean, however, that I simply "accept" that without challenge.

    I also know that the people of all the nations of Africa (above and below the Bantu Line) know of my African ancestry. All of those people also know, and consider, me to be American. We I go there I would expect they would call me American. Clearly, I will still be "black". They will still call me America.

    I don't take this discussion as a personal attack.

    My answer to all the ills of chattel slavery is to break the last bondage of chattel slavery by declaring and reestablishing an ancestral nationality for me, and mine. Once I get myself fixed, maybe I can be of benefit to others.


    PEACE

    Jim Chester

    You are who you say you are. Your children are who you say you are.
    well the DNA would be a good way to destroy the unknown african heritage. And about us being the only ones with this situation i beg to differ. If you go to Columbia, Venezuela, Costa Rica, Panama, Brazil, as well as other Central and South American countries , you will see african people fighting virtually the same battle, in the same position, believe it or not the hispanic people treat africans as worse if not worse that we are bing treated here in North America. As far as being called American by africans, I beg to differ. Of course you have those who by into the propaganda, but me who have befriended a many african brethren from all over the continent of africa and as one who works with people on the ground in africa, i know for a fact they see us as their brothers and sistas. This is another age old arguement.If you want to accep the eurocentric ideology known in this hemisphere as "american" thats on you, but I dont. I see myself as a part of a globall african community stuggling for our liberation and right to self determination. Im African, i just happen to be born in america,.Just because you are born somewhere doesnt make you that. Many whites are born in africa, but they are and always will be (wazungo) or european. You see what makes you african is your genetics. All you are is the summ of who you once was, and the origin of us all black if i may use the term are from african thats our origin. Whites are and always will be Europeans> despite the savage taking over of other peoples land and the creation of an evil bastard state, built on oppression and lies,.

    "I AM BECAUSE WE ARE"
    THANK YOU!!!!! Mr. Chester!

    That was a whole lot better than "Black" is "WHAT" I am not "WHO" I am.

    To be sure, those are opinions of yours. And that's okay. Your position is, of course, rational(e) and, now, well articulated in an "All On The Table" fashion with those enumerated points. I can see how you arrive at your position now more than before, again, because it's all laid out.

    If you want to know by chance what I don't agree with is, in fact, the lack of self-determination. Let me be clear.

    Your Ancestrial Nationality is obviously the result of self-determination. However, the problem I find is with allowing Europeans to define "WHAT" Black is and limiting its whole scope to what you narrowly call "color". As I said before, BLACK IS A STATE OF MIND.

    Now, to my question:
    How does Ancestrial Nationality alleviate/eliminate the "BLACK" Trap?
    ...... which implicates ......
    Has our status changed in any increment since we adopted "African-American" [as our naming-concept.... one that is not based on ** CoLoR ** - *the crux of your argument*], in your opinion?
    ...... both of which are related to ......
    Are you going to take a different approach to issues because of [Ancestrial Nationality]?

    Your answer:
    I don't think I have thus far.
    Except for clarifying my identity as needed, I don't forsee a need. If there is a challenge to my identity in the issue, yes.
      What you just did was acknowledge the limited scope of what a "name" will or can do for you. Or should I say, the limited nature and depth of your concept.

      You just said Ancestrial Nationality is not related to anything else in our struggle besides being called by our "name" of choice. That's a demonstration of how superficial it is. You made all you points obsolete and *invalid*.
    quote:
    In many, if not most, instances African American-Americans have the ability to defeat the intent of such actions I gave two examples in recent posts. Oddly, no one denies their validity. You acknowledged the fact.
    As I stated earlier...
    YOU ARE LOOKING FOR VALIDATION.

    Also, it seems you have forgotten what I said earlier when you lamented about "Resolution" -at I defined as your quest for "validation":
      "Sorry, in this instance I was (especially with your words in mind - "your list and my list..."), I felt obligated NOT to comment on "your list" as a way of accepting them strictly because they were yours."
    See, if someone comments and doesn't agree with you, you cry "You don't want resolution..." yet when they don't comment at all, which I said I felt "obligated" to do because of your lamenting, you assume that your points are valid, claiming "no one denies their validity".... hmmmm.....

    What make you make that statement?
    Did I say either of your points were valid? Did I say I thought they made sense?

    Obviously NOT! Why else would you be bitchin' about "You have your list, I have mine..."??

    Let me make this clear to you. I asked you to make a case for you points. One with a clear, rational line of thinking. In essence, I asked you to present your whole argument in an effort to understand how you arrive at your conclusion, instead of just taken your more or less One-Liners at face value.
      I said:
      Your take on the Voting Rights Act I will have to accept because you have a reasoning and clear rationale behind it.
    I don't know what anybody else has said to you but that does not say that I think your points are "valid".

    The only thing I "acknowledged" was that you had articulated solid reasoning for your position on the Voting Rights Act. That says you made a "good" argument in the sense that you explained things, ONLY!

    I don't agree with either of your points. You know that. You, of course, want to think they are sound, when I think they are not. You are looking for "VALIDATION" (as I said) because if someone disagrees with you, you feel (because you think you are right) that there is "NO POINT" in discussing anything because of your *false* pretense of "resolution".

    You mistake is in assuming that silence is agreement. Again, when did I say your points are "valid"? What exactly did I "acknowledge" [as valid]?? QUOTE my "validating" statement(s)...

    If I said your points were "valid" - as in the *correct* position to take and the *correct* interpretation of things - there would have been no need for 2-3 pages of us going back and forth on this...

    It's funny that you commented on the Global Warming issue asserting that it was an example of someone screaming, "The Sky Is Falling!", "The Sky Is Falling! First, that's what I think about the Voting Rights Act issue.

    I think you are being an Alarmist -overdoing it, that is. That seems to be the consensus reaction to your point about it. I think you can name the members here who have actually seen your position in that vain. You know them better than myself... You also should know that that's exactly what the NAACP rep was saying to you. He was calling you Chicken Little!

    But... you know... that's all in keeping with your ARROGANCE OF IGNORANCE. Like the kind of IGNORANCE you displayed about KWANZAA...
    (Frown Duh... Duh... "I never analyzed it critically before."Frown)
    ... and your ARROGANCE for thinking that YOU KNEW MORE (or 'better') than the person who created it. In terms of the Voting Rights issue, apparently you think you know more than people who deal with it as their profession, and in this sense, as their mission/passion in life.

    There's a term for all that and your posture fits it to the 'T'. It's called Monday Morning Quarterbacking... intimately related to the fan that has never laced them up yet thinks he can "coach" better than the man paid to be on the bench.

    Now, after having said that... I respect your right to have the views you do. I respect them even more sense you finally explained them. BUT I still DON'T AGREE WITH THEM, hence the 'thousand' other questions I raised that you didn't care to answer.

    Unlike you, I don't claim victory because you didn't answer those questions... I don't assume that you were necessarily trying to avoid them, etc. That would be too much like "looking for validation" and assuming that silence on one small point in a body of larger point(s), even in the midst of opposition, is agreement - a pure and utter fallacy.

    Thank You! JWC.... Roll Eyes
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Knowledgeseeker:
    well the DNA would be a good way to destroy the unknown african heritage.

    It is worth doing. With that kind of specificity, it could take away the unknown part, for me. One descriptor would be addressed. Thanks.

    And about us being the only ones with this situation i beg to differ. If you go to Columbia, Venezuela, Costa Rica, Panama, Brazil, as well as other Central and South American countries , you will see african people fighting virtually the same battle, in the same position, believe it or not the hispanic people treat africans as worse if not worse that we are bing treated here in North America.

    That's news. Not to say slavery in the Hispanic countries was not bad, but my understanding was chattel slavery was not characteristic of the other slave nations of the Western Hemisphere. In fact, some descendants of people have posted on the board pointing out how they had been able to hold on to their African identity. Maybe not nationality per se, but family and tribal. In fact, I remember my mother telling stories of a family member who used ride "a horse with a 'crying saddle'." He was supposed to have been from the "West Indies."

    As far as being called American by africans, I beg to differ. Of course you have those who by into the propaganda, but me who have befriended a many african brethren from all over the continent of africa and as one who works with people on the ground in africa, i know for a fact they see us as their brothers and sistas.


    That's great. They "saw" you as their "brothers and sisters", but did they call you whatever Ghanaian, Kenyan, etc. I believe they called you Amreican. That's not bad, but simply the fact, perceived fact.

    This is another age old arguement.If you want to accep the eurocentric ideology known in this hemisphere as "american" thats on you, but I dont. I see myself as a part of a globall african community stuggling for our liberation and right to self determination. Im African, i just happen to be born in america,.

    I am of African ancestry too. As are you. I wouldn't even think of telling you that you can't "be African." From you description of yourself, I am a African as you are. Curiously, however in your insistence on "being African", I don't hear/see you renouncing your American citizehship. Talk, no walk. But you are entitled to talk.

    By the way, what is it that causes you no problem when an African national comes to America applies for and gains citizenship, and is then American, but I, native-born am somehow acting inappropriately to claim my citizenship as American.? What mentality is THAT?


    Just because you are born somewhere doesnt make you that.

    Now that's a surprise!! It doesn't?? The good news in our country, yours and mine, is that you can change it. I would hope you wouldn't. But you can. Native birth automatically endows one with citizenship. Please don't tell me, "You know what I mean."

    Many whites are born in africa, but they are and always will be (wazungo) or european. You see what makes you african is your genetics. All you are is the summ of who you once was, and the origin of us all black if i may use the term are from african thats our origin. Whites are and always will be Europeans> despite the savage taking over of other peoples land and the creation of an evil bastard state, built on oppression and lies,.

    You and I agree. That's waht the 'African' in African American is about. It says that I am of African ancestry, and an African American national heritage.

    My declaration of ancestral nationality first acknowledges my African ancestry. African American is the result of the efforts of people like me for the safe-haven of people like me. African American is our place within the nation of our birth that helps assure our survival.

    I am not an American who is simply African. I am an American who is African American.

    I am an African American-American.

    PEACE

    Jim Chester


    You are who you say you are. Your children are who you say you are.
    [QUOTE]Originally posted by Nmaginate:
    THANK YOU!!!!! Mr. Chester!

    That was a whole lot better than "Black" is "WHAT" I am not "WHO" I am.


    Your welcome. It's not the first time I have said those exact same words to you. Apparently, repetition helps.

    PEACE

    Jim Chester

    You are who you say you are. Your children are who you say you are.
    quote:
    Originally posted by Nmaginate:
    THANK YOU!!!!! Mr. Chester!

    That was a whole lot better than "Black" is "WHAT" I am not "WHO" I am.

    To be sure, those are opinions of yours. And that's okay. Your position is, of course, rational(e) and, now, well articulated in an "All On The Table" fashion with those enumerated points. I can see how you arrive at your position now more than before, again, because it's all laid out.

    If you want to know by chance what I don't agree with is, in fact, the lack of self-determination. Let me be clear.

    Your Ancestrial Nationality is obviously the result of self-determination. However, the problem I find is with allowing Europeans to define "WHAT" Black is and limiting its whole scope to what you narrowly call "color". As I said before, BLACK IS A STATE OF MIND.

    JWC: I haven't forgotten. I known the significance of the term since the 1970s.

    Now, to my question:
    _How does Ancestrial Nationality alleviate/eliminate the "BLACK" Trap? _
    ...... which implicates ......
    _Has our status changed in any increment since we adopted "African-American" [as our naming-concept.... one that is not based on ** CoLoR ** - *the crux of your argument*], in your opinion?_
    ...... both of which are related to ......
    _Are you going to take a different approach to issues because of [Ancestrial Nationality]?_

    Your answer:
    _I don't think I have thus far._
    _Except for clarifying my identity as needed, I don't forsee a need. If there is a challenge to my identity in the issue, yes._What you just did was acknowledge the limited scope of what a "name" will or can do for you. Or should I say, the limited nature and depth of your concept.

    You just said Ancestrial Nationality is not related to anything else in our struggle besides being called by our "name" of choice. That's a demonstration of how superficial it is. You made all you points obsolete and *invalid*.


    LWC: I thought I said more. You are entitled to your conclusion.

    PEACE

    Jim Chester

    You are who you say you are. Your children are who you say you are.
    quote:
    Originally posted by Nmaginate:
    quote:
    In many, if not most, instances African American-Americans have the ability to defeat the intent of such actions I gave two examples in recent posts. Oddly, no one denies their validity. You acknowledged the fact.
    As I stated earlier...
    YOU ARE LOOKING FOR VALIDATION.

    Also, it seems you have forgotten what I said earlier when you lamented about "Resolution" -at I defined as your quest for "validation":"Sorry, in this instance I was (especially with your words in mind - "your list and my list..."), _I felt obligated NOT to comment on "your list"_ as a way of accepting them strictly because they were yours."See, if someone comments and doesn't agree with you, you cry "You don't want _resolution_..." yet when they don't comment at all, which I said I felt "obligated" to do because of your lamenting, you assume that your points are valid, claiming "no one denies their validity".... hmmmm.....

    What make you make that statement?
    Did I say either of your points were valid? Did I say I thought they made sense?

    Obviously NOT! Why else would you be bitchin' about _"You have your list, I have mine..."_??

    Let me make this clear to you. I asked you to make a case for you points. One with a clear, rational line of thinking. In essence, I asked you to present your whole argument in an effort to understand how you arrive at your conclusion, instead of just taken your more or less One-Liners at face value.I said:
    Your take on the Voting Rights Act I will have to accept because you have a reasoning and clear rationale behind it.I don't know what anybody else has said to you but that does not say that I think your points are "valid".

    The only thing I "acknowledged" was that you had articulated solid reasoning for your position on the Voting Rights Act. That says you made a "good" argument in the sense that you explained things, ONLY!

    I don't agree with either of your points. You know that. You, of course, want to think they are sound, when I think they are not. You are looking for "VALIDATION" (as I said) because if someone disagrees with you, you feel (because you think you are right) that there is "NO POINT" in discussing anything because of your *false* pretense of "resolution".

    You mistake is in assuming that silence is agreement. Again, when did I say your points are "valid"? What exactly did I "acknowledge" [as valid]?? QUOTE my "validating" statement(s)...

    If I said your points were "valid" - as in the *correct* position to take and the *correct* interpretation of things - there would have been no need for 2-3 pages of us going back and forth on this...

    It's funny that you commented on the Global Warming issue asserting that it was an example of someone screaming, "The Sky Is Falling!", "The Sky Is Falling! First, that's what I think about the Voting Rights Act issue.

    I think you are being an Alarmist -overdoing it, that is. That seems to be the consensus reaction to your point about it. I think you can name the members here who have actually seen your position in that vain. You know them better than myself... You also should know that that's exactly what the NAACP rep was saying to you. He was calling you Chicken Little!

    But... you know... that's all in keeping with your ARROGANCE OF IGNORANCE. Like the kind of IGNORANCE you displayed about KWANZAA...
    (Frown Duh... Duh... "I never analyzed it critically before."Frown)
    ... and your ARROGANCE for thinking that YOU KNEW MORE (or 'better') than the person who created it. In terms of the Voting Rights issue, apparently you think you know more than people who deal with it as their profession, and in this sense, as their mission/passion in life.

    There's a term for all that and your posture fits it to the 'T'. It's called Monday Morning Quarterbacking... intimately related to the fan that has never laced them up yet thinks he can "coach" better than the man paid to be on the bench.

    Now, after having said that... I respect your right to have the views you do. I respect them even more sense you finally explained them. BUT I still DON'T AGREE WITH THEM, hence the 'thousand' other questions I raised that you didn't care to answer.

    Unlike you, I don't claim victory because you didn't answer those questions... I don't assume that you were necessarily trying to avoid them, etc. That would be too much like "looking for validation" and assuming that silence on one small point in a body of larger point(s), even in the midst of opposition, is agreement - a pure and utter fallacy.

    Thank You! JWC.... Roll Eyes


    You are welcome. Your insight continues to be ......AMAZING.

    PEACE

    Jim Chester

    You are who you say you are. Your children are who you say you are.
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    quote:
    NMag: That was a whole lot better than "Black" is "WHAT" I am not "WHO" I am.


    JWC: Your welcome. It's not the first time I have said those exact same words to you. Apparently, repetition helps.

    I don't know why I'm asking (as in I'd rather get all me teeth pulled... Big Grin) but what "same exact words" are you talking about?

    I'm not sure if you comprehended what I was saying... because I'm not sure I'm comprehending what "words" you are talking about here.

    REPETITION...
    Funny how that works. I guess I should go back and count how many times I asked you one certain particular specific question before you answered it. Yes! I guess repetition does help! Big Grin
    Last edited {1}
    i Suggest everyone who is not familar with the african struggle in the southern hemishere , to check it out. There are more africans in central and south american than anywhere else outside the african continent. Yet when you see hispanic or latino representatives , its like there are no blacks in any of those countries. Now i know for a fact the situation is horrible, in countries like Columbia , Costa Rica, Brazil, as well as other countries. The governments of these countries make it a point to keep the africans powerless. About the brothers and sistas on the continent looking at me as a brother, represents the thinking of many african youth my age, the message is clear, pan africanism is growing , and the ideology of one african people is beginning to develop and the notions of tribalism is starting to receed and more and more african states are speaking of united africa, and are welcoming investment and even repatriation of africans in the diaspora to come home if not physically emotionally. Now brothers coming from the continent gettin jobs in america is fine by me. Why not everyone else does it , the hispanics, eastern europeans, arabs, asians all come. why not us. I feel like it only strenthens our position.

    "I AM BECAUSE WE ARE"
    'i'm black on both sides' fro

    ***********************************************************
    'Sometimes life is obscene' - Black Crowes

    Commerical Hall of Fame - All time list

    'Who in the hell left the gate open???' Confused

    'Somebody put roots on me' Frown

    'I've fallen, and I can't give up!!!' broscream
    I am Black! I was born in Suriname (South America). My mother's Great grandmother was a freed slave. We have a culture similar to people from Ghana because that is where they who went before us were taken from. We embrace our culture, and language which is a mix of Dutch (Suriname was a colony) Spanish (slave keepers) and English (of course they had to be there too). My husband is white, his great gandparends were Russian Jews who came here to have a good live after World War 1.
    Our child knows where I come from and where her father comes from. She is fairly light skinned, but embraces her blackness! She does not speak ill of others, and rather asks than just assumes. That is how we bring her up. So she is light skinned, her mother is dark skinned and she always tells me how much she likes my ebony skin!
    My nieces and nephews (my sister's children) have a greek father, they too are fairly light skinned, but know their backgrounds.
    Maybe it's because we grew up in Suriname and Holland, and were thought by our parents that the color of your skin does not matter, it is the heart that counts. Maybe it's because we have seen that some people think they are better than others because of the color of their skin. I moved to the States a little over 2 years ago, and it is here that I have noticed that people sometimes stare at us when we go out. It is here that I have noticed how people assume and even say it out loud, that I think I'm white because I have a white husband. People have told me that I ˜acted' white. Will anyone tell me, what does that mean? Do I act white when my daughter and I dress up in traditional clothes and go to church? Do I act white cause I don't take nonsense from other people, but choose to live my life the way I want. Do I act white when I don't speak with a certain accent ?
    Most of the encounters have been with black people and I cannot understand why.

    I am not African American, nor will I ever be. I am a black woman, born in Suriname, proud of my heritage, proud of my spirituality and proud of the strong people I come from. Most of all, I am proud of my child who knows her heritage, who embraces her blackness and does not look down on people because of what they look like. What disappoints me is that there are people out there who think that just because a bi-racial child is light skinned, she must hate her blackness, and these are black people, like me and her. These people assume the worst and that saddens me.
    "People have told me that I ˜acted' white. Will anyone tell me, what does that mean?" -- Maisa

    I would assume you to be of Suriname as I am of America. Your quote, which I selected, is the result of what I call America's "brainwash." I have been told that since I was 9 years old. I always hurts when I hear it. However, I have long since learned to ignore it. There are those of us who are so embedded in the negative that everything that is not a copy of their behavior is "white." Color drives American society. Unfortunately, color also continues to drive much of African America as well.

    We still insist on calling ourselves "black", as an identity mind you, not simply as a description of our societal color. We are still in the process of coming to recognize that our color is WHAT we are, rather than WHO we are. But, slowly, we are getting there.

    Welcome.


    PEACE

    Jim Chester

    You are who you say you are. Your children are who you say you are.
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    Thank you! Chester.

    The thing that amazes me is that people focus so much on skin color. It has been like that forever (see the Bible) but it has not appeared to people to try and change that. Sad to see that something as simple, yet beautiful as the color of your skin is the biggest point of argument, hatred, and even reason to kill someone. It has been like that for generations, and will be for generations to come. I don't want to be labeled; I just want to be ME! The color of my skin has nothing to do with my intelligence, my tolerance, my spirituality; it is who I am. The color of my skin, that is ME! and I am proud of that color. The color of my child's skin is a beautiful cream, she is beautiful because she is my child, the beautiful rose from my womb and she will grow up to be a strong person, well aware of who she is, not accepting society's condemnation of her blackness, nor society's ignorance of what they assume she must think because of her skin color.
    sleep

    ________________________________
    To Sigma

    Thy Scattered sons with lofty hopes and aims,
    Achieving greatness which the world proclaims,
    Regarding life with tenderness sublime,
    And with design which knows no race or clime,
    Appeals to selfish man to serve and love
    God`s handiwork created from above;
    PHI BETA SIGMA stands this test of years
    Supremely over blight and cringing fears,
    With unflinching will that cannot fail,
    The sacred cause advances to prevail.
    Give us the conscience staunch and spirit brave,
    To master stormy sea and angry wave,
    And as the curtain falls o`er this brief life,
    We`ll march triumphant from this din and strife.


    -Bro. Nnamdi Azikiwe-First President of Nigeria, G.O.M.A.B. 1914

    I personally, invite each and everyone of you to my drum party. The African rhythms are outa-sight, the Indigenist rhythms are fine too, just a little yellin' involved, but there's one who can't keep time worth a damn. Just bring you're ear plugs if ya can't deal. Colors run the gamut; hair textures, too (we have that all under control. They'll be pretty for ya!!). Wear the garb of your choice. I sincerely hope you enjoy yourselves, but please don't say anything out of the way. Thank you!!

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