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quote:
Originally posted by Blake Manner:

Yeah that really gets into the problems of fatherhood.


Big Grin What's the matter? The WP isn't reporting things THE WAY YOU AND COSBY want them to?
To fit your position and SELF-LOATHING views?

C'mon, dude... This is the BS you tried to pull:


  • [The] WP was not doing its job as a newspaper to do a fair and balanced report.
    _______________________ VS _______________________

  • Well, obviously Cosby wasn't sayisfied with them just stating the facts.


    With them STATING FACTS... your BOGUS "they were not doing their job" BS is blown out the water via your own self-DECONSTRUCTION.

    Cosby said: "Unless I missed it, I heard not one black man say anything about being a father."

    That's blown out the water, too. Mark is a Black man and via the story, he talked about "being a father." Also...


    quote:
    · More than half said they place a high value on marriage -- compared with 39 percent of black women -- and six in 10 said they strongly value having children. Yet at least 38 percent of all black fathers in the survey are not living with at least one of their young children, and a third of all never-married black men have a child. Six in 10 said that black men disrespect black women


    That demonstrates how the WP did it's "job" on the "fatherhood" tip.


    quote:
    Ooh, man its oozing with responsibility there.


    You done fell and bumped your head...

    quote:
    How could I miss this. A father talking positively to his son...


    ... BEING THERE = oozing with responsibility.

    quote:
    The other things you put in bold are not quotes, but statements by the author.


    You're lost again... this is the BS you tried to pull:


  • [The] WP was not doing its job as a newspaper to do a fair and balanced report.
    _______________________ VS _______________________

  • Well, obviously Cosby wasn't sayisfied with them just stating the facts.


    quote:
    It's not what I said...
    WHAT DID THE REPORT SAY?
    Again, either they reported "both sides" or they didn't. That's something that can be confirmed or denied. Cosby's opinion or how he saw is, again, NOT THE POINT and is wholly IRRELEVANT.

    Yeah, and Fox news talks about democratic issues, but that doesn't mean that it discusses that side enough.


    No, this is the BS you tried to pull:


  • [The] WP was not doing its job as a newspaper to do a fair and balanced report.

    Did they "cover both sides" or not? That's the only thing that's relevant. What Cosby "liked", thought or felt is IRRELEVANT. He ain't NOBODY!!

    Did the WP "cover both sides"? Well, you already conceded that point and that's been demonstrated. And your willingness to try to LIE for Cosby or do anything to justify the things he says only continues to make you look as STUPID as you are.


    quote:
    Obviously it matters to you. So I ask, why are you so against Cosby? Were you in love with Phylicia Rashad or something? Are you mad because he took Lisa Bonet off 'Different World'.


    Tell me what type of LOGICAL FALLACY... stupid statement in the absence of an argument... that is. Don't stutter. Run that. Holla back when you're ready to expose your own weakness via that recurring LOGICAL FALLACY.

    quote:
    Whatever it is, dude get over it cause everybody's got an opinion and nobody cares if you disagree with them.


    Damn you're stupid... Let me put it like this. No! Let me put it like you:

    "Obviously it matters to you."

    "If you [don't care], then why are you so vocal in this thread?"




    NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • Nmaginate, its because of idiotic people like you that we have so little progress in Black America.

    No, Cosby didn't like the article. Why? Well, for one, because he felt it didn't address the problems and responsibliities of fatherhood. The fact that they have a father and son part of the story doesn't mean they're addressing the problems of fatherhood. The father is never quoted talking about how hard it is as a father. All his quotes are inspirational stuff. The article names stats and the author stated that the father was agonizing over protecting and preparing him. But there were no quotes to show this side of the father.

    Really I could care less what you think and whether you think Cosby is trying to be HNIC or not. But what gets me is your opinion that a man cannot quesion/criticize an organization. Thats all Cosby is doing here. He is criticizing the Post and names why he did it.

    Please tell me how Cosby is any differeny than the people who say that its not enough for companies to just hire a Black man as a 'token Black guy'.

    The company can easily say, "See I hired a Black guy, I am addressing my diversity issues", but the complaint is not because its not addressed, but because its not addressed to the level that it should be addressed.

    How about this. I took an American History class in undergrad and there was only one day that we covered African Americans. Of corse I was outraged and demanded more. But according to you, I was showing some HNIC attitude that "everything's got to go my way".

    WRONG. I saw a situation, controlled by the majority, where I thought the minority issue was not being given enough weight. Whether the institution agrees with me or not is a case between the institution and myself to settle. But I dont need my classmates in the background calling me names cause I want to "run the class" or something.

    It goes the same way for Cosby. He saw an article, written by WP, who has a history of ignoring minority issues, and said I don't like this article BECAUSE I feel that a minority issue was ignored. Of corse WP will say they addressed it; just like my undergrad institution told me that they addressed African American History on that day of American History. But the fact that they mentioned doesn't mean that I am satisfied, nor should I be. NOR SHOULD COSBY BE.

    Its people like you that I have a serious problem with. People who just want to find SOME reson to argue against a Black Man, BECAUSE he is a Black Man. WTF? And more, you're a guy that's going to take the side against the Black Man because the people in power said he's wrong. Yeah, that's modus ponus at its best.
    quote:
    Originally posted by Blake Manner:
    Nmaginate, its because of idiotic people like you that we have so little progress in Black America.


    You and KWELI have more in common than I thought. Same weak, fallacious appeals. Strikingly so.


    quote:
    No, Cosby didn't like the article. Why? Well, for one, because he felt it didn't address the problems and responsibliities of fatherhood.


    The WP has no duty or obligation to write stories with the twist or focus Cosby wants, with the intensity he wants or with the degree of emphasis he wants. Dude, I'm a Black Nationalist, ideologically speaking... figure there are plenty a prominent folk who think like I do, but few of them have the misconception that the WP, etc. should speak directly to what we would have emphasized - and how.

    There is no such entitlement.

    Your assertions were BOGUS! You wanted to claim the WP did not cover "both sides." That BS was pre-empted. You misspoke and choked over what was already at your disposal before you tried to rehash your idiotic Cosby defense.

    YOU LOST. And you especially it lost when you tried to pull this:

  • [The] WP was not doing its job as a newspaper to do a fair and balanced report.
    _______________________ VS _______________________

  • Well, obviously Cosby wasn't sayisfied with them just stating the facts.


    Please stop the SELF-HATRED. You done fell and bumped your head real good if you think you're going to just skate after exposing those types of CONTRADICTIONS.

    quote:
    The fact that they have a father and son part of the story doesn't mean they're addressing the problems of fatherhood.


    TRUTH or CONSEQUENCES... They would address "the problems of fatherhood" by doing... WHAT?


    quote:
    The father is never quoted talking about how hard it is as a father.


    Confused Huh? Confused

    Are you okay? I'll go get some ice for that lump on your head.



    quote:
    Really I could care less what you think and whether you think Cosby is trying to be HNIC or not.


    Dude, you're in my thread... Let that simmer a bit.


    quote:
    But what gets me is your opinion that a man cannot quesion/criticize an organization.


    When you get a clue... come back and tell me about my opinion. Make sure you're not projecting someone else's (KWELI's) onto me. Reread the title-post then go look up (that FRONT LINE link and) the word SARCASM.


    quote:
    according to you, I was showing some HNIC attitude that "everything's got to go my way".


    Nope. That's according to you. What I said was clear. The WP does not have a duty to present the type of SELF-LOATHING story that would have "satisfied" Cosby. Again, his idiotic ramblings are clear. He was just lashing out as he always has, indiscriminately. That's why, like a true contrarian, after all that "you're not covering the story right" stuff... He went to the next thing he could dream of b*tchin' about and wanted to castigate them for "taking the summer off".

    Old Man BILL proved that he was the one that was OFF. Off his damn rocker and completely out-of-pocket.

    quote:
    WRONG. I saw a situation...


    cabbage Go Blake! It's your birthday! and beat that pinatta full of STRAW!! Get that birthday candy, man! cabbage


    quote:
    It goes the same way for Cosby. He saw an article, written by WP, who has a history of ignoring minority issues, and said I don't like this article BECAUSE I feel that a minority issue was ignored.


    YOU LOST. And you especially it lost when you tried to pull this:

  • [The] WP was not doing its job as a newspaper to do a fair and balanced report.
    _______________________ VS _______________________

  • Well, obviously Cosby wasn't sayisfied with them just stating the facts.


    Please stop the SELF-HATRED.

    quote:
    Of corse WP will say they addressed it


    That is not something that's indispute. Either they did or they didn't. You saying this....
  • Well, obviously Cosby wasn't sayisfied with them just stating the facts.

    ... CONTRADICTS all your BS no matter how many times you repeat it.

    Please stop the SELF-HATRED.
  • quote:
    But the fact that they mentioned [it]...


    That was not what you claimed. Trying to defend Cosby, you said:

    [The] WP was not doing its job as a newspaper to do a fair and balanced report.

    quote:
    Posted July 22, 2006 10:39 AM

    You say that the WP stated the 'actual opinions of Black men'. But Cosby is saying that they did not show both sides of the story, as a newspaper is supposed to.

    ...When CNN asks for user feedback on a story, they get both positive and negative responses.

    ...when all the opinions are positive on the state of Black Men in America; especially when you or I could go outside and ask the same question to a set of 100 Black men and get many more negative opinions.

    ...its rediculous to believe that they couldn't find one guy to say, "I don't like the state of Black Men in America", And so WP was not doing its job as a newspaper to do a fair and balanced report.


    Obviously, your position is so weak that you have to LIE, perpetrate a fraud and then carry on like you were NOT in error (AS YOU OBVIOUSLY WERE)... for you to defend Cosby for whatever emotionally driven reason you do.

    quote:
    [that] doesn't mean that I am satisfied, nor should I be. NOR SHOULD COSBY BE.


    Please speak to things that are match your idiotic assertions and things that I have contended with. The issue YOU brought had to do with your stupid claim that the WP did not report "both sides." You took Cosby's word, ran with it then ran out of gas when you were DEBUNKED.

    If you position was sound, you wouldn't LIE or have to LIE. Either the WP did or did not "cover both sides." But let's go TRUTH or CONSEQUENCES:

    They would address "the problems of fatherhood" by doing... WHAT?

    Be specific. What should they report?
    Note: This is complete BS - "The father is never quoted talking about how hard it is as a father."

    I know and you know that's not what Cosby wanted out of the story. That does not speak to those Talking Points about "responsibility" and such. But go ahead... TRUTH or CONSEQUENCES.

    quote:


    Now... For Tonight's Entertainment! 10

    quote:
    Its people like you that I have a serious problem with. People who just want to find SOME reson to argue against a Black Man, BECAUSE he is a Black Man. WTF?


    WTF is right. WTF are you thinking... LOL!! lol Mike Dyson = Black Man
    So, yes... WTF are you thinking? I mean, drinking? Confused

    quote:
    And more, you're a guy that's going to take the side against the Black Man because the people in power said he's wrong. Yeah, that's modus ponus at its best.


    Name those PEOPLE IN POWER who have said that.
    This is not CNN (it's CBS) but here's wrench for your new concoction... I mean construction:

    Bill Cosby & The Flap That Wasn't

    Please back away from the ego bruised, perception driven MYTHOLOGY. Also, tell me what Lower Economic Folk or, affectionately called "THESE PEOPLE" by Cosby - just like a racist White... (or otherwise awkward, clueless White...)... tell me how many of "THESE PEOPLE" are in power.

    Dude, you really have fallen and bumped your damn head.
    Last edited {1}
    I think your problem is the definition of the term 'both sides'. The side I've said was not addressed all along was the problems and responsibilities with fatherhood in Black America. Yeah, WP named stats, but they didn't have any quotes going to this side. Hence this is a side that wasn't addressed (or even if you want to say that naming the stats is addressing it, then this side wasn't addressed enough).

    quote:
    They would address "the problems of fatherhood" by doing... WHAT?

    Be specific. What should they report?
    Note: This is complete BS - "The father is never quoted talking about how hard it is as a father."

    I know and you know that's not what Cosby wanted out of the story. That does not speak to those Talking Points about "responsibility" and such. But go ahead... TRUTH or CONSEQUENCES.


    WHAT? Thats what I've been saying this whole time. Because you choose to ignore the words right in front of you is not my problem. Cosby said he was upset with the story because it didn't have any quotes addressing the problems of fatherhood. You call me a lie, but still have not named one quote. You've named stats. You've shown me where 'daddy's gonna make it all ok'. Thats not what Cosby is talking about.

    Cosby told you how. They could address this problem by at least acknowledging it with a quote from the guy. I don't know if that would please Cosby, but it would have at least made his objection a lot weaker. But you act like Cosby's trying to be some dictator on Black America issues because he wasn't satisfied with the story.

    quote:
    WTF is right. WTF are you thinking... LOL!! Mike Dyson = Black Man
    So, yes... WTF are you thinking? I mean, drinking?


    No, Mike Dyson = Black Man with the same problem. Thats why I criticize him.

    If your problems are with Cosby singling out the lower economic class, then I have no problem with attacking that part of Cosby's comments because personal responsibility doesn't refer only to these people. But for you, or Mike Dyson to criticize Cosby because telling Black America that personal responsibility gives them false hope that they can do something with their lives, then I just say STFU cause that point has ABSOLUTELY no basis.
    quote:
    Originally posted by Blake Manner:

    I think your problem is the definition of the term 'both sides'.

    Damn. And after all that time I thought you were trying to defend Bill Cosby. Come to find out, you're here to defend Bill Clinton.

    quote:
    The side I've said was not addressed all along was the problems and responsibilities with fatherhood in Black America.


    No. What you just said wasn't addressed was some odd sh*t:
    "The father is never quoted talking about how hard it is as a father."

    Again, you and I both know that's not what got Cosby all riled up. And the story talking about how Mark was there emotionally, supportively for Marcus is all about the responsibility a father has to his son.

    Your problem and Cosby's issue is that you didn't hear your SELF-LOATHING reflected in the WP coverage (as if you read it all).

    Speaking of that...

    quote:
    Because you choose to ignore the words right in front of you is not my problem.


    Dyson's "BOTH SIDES" was right in front of you. The WP's stats that CONTRADICTED or conflicted with what their polling of ACTUAL BLACK MEN (i.e. a random group of them)... the TWO SIDES to that were right in front of you. Yet, in both cases you made idiotic statements out of WILLED IGNORANCE.

    Your argument is FAILING as you are failing to sustain your argument. Hey but you are more articulate than Cosby so I'll give that much. But that's not saying much at all because you keep FAILING to articulate anything sound and anything resembling an actual argument.

    quote:
    You've shown me where 'daddy's gonna make it all ok'. Thats not what Cosby is talking about.


    And, again, Cosby wasn't talking about this either:
    "The father is never quoted talking about how hard it is as a father."

    As for me... What Cosby said and what he was "talking about" is IRRELEVANT! You tried to claim that the WP "didn't do it's job." YOU WERE WRONG. YOU LIED!

    Period. END OF STORY. GAME OVER.

    quote:
    But you act like Cosby's trying to be some dictator on Black America issues because he wasn't satisfied with the story.


    Ha! Ha! This does sound like the insane ramblings of a Would-Be DICTATOR:

    "I don't want to hear that shit."

    And you act like Cosby's "satisfaction" means something. COSBY AIN'T NOBODY!!

    He don't run sh*t. Who gives a f~ck what he doesn't "want to hear"? Who the hell does he think he is? That's the question.

    No, actually, the question is: Who do you think Cosby is?
    Cause sho' act like he (and what he thinks) is suppose to be important - to me.

    See...?

    quote:
    Cosby said he was upset with the story because it didn't have any quotes addressing the problems of fatherhood.


    And?? Cosby said this ILLITERATE sh*t:

    That white man, he's laughing. He's got to be laughing: 50 percent drop out

    quote:
    Mr. Cosby said yesterday that what was left out of those comments, first reported by The Associated Press and The Washington Post, was that he began his remarks by talking about what he said was a 50 percent high school dropout rate among poor blacks. The National Center for Education Statistics, a federal agency, says that in 2000 the dropout rate for blacks was 13.1 percent. Mr. Cosby's publicist, David Brokaw, said it was Mr. Cosby's understanding that the rate was 50 percent in some inner-city schools.
    ____________________ VS _________________

    "I didn't say all black people from the lower classes were to blame," Kane said Cosby told him. "But I said that when you have a 50 percent graduation rate,and some people can't put two sentences together, and can't write or spell...you've got people who have put themselves on a track to failure."


    And he said this ILLITERATE sh*t too:
    "With all the systemic problems of racism, the solution is parenting."



    quote:
    quote:
    Originally posted by Blake Manner:

    No, Mike Dyson = Black Man with the same problem. Thats why I criticize him.


    Dude, get off the tonic. It's affecting you like you're Snoop Dogg... Hooked On The CHRONIC.

    I mean, you throw up all manner of BS then when it gets thrown back in your face (because it was stupid of you to ever try that BS in the first) then you try to flip it like you didn't introduce that BS into the game.

    You said this DUMB SH*T:
    Its people like you that I have a serious problem with. People who just want to find SOME reson to argue against a Black Man, BECAUSE he is a Black Man.

    Simply put, your response to the ensuing exchange ("That's Why I Criticize Dyson") does nothing but show your own peculiar brand of SELF-HATRED. You tried to make "criticizing a Black Man" an issue. Now you're saying it's not. Well, when it comes to you.

    WTF? is right.

    quote:
    If your problems are with Cosby singling out the lower economic class, then I have no problem with attacking that part of Cosby's comments because personal responsibility doesn't refer only to these people.


    Dude there is no mystery as to what and why I've taken issue with Cosby... Ain't no IF's to that known and knowable information.


    quote:
    But for you, or Mike Dyson to criticize Cosby because telling Black America that personal responsibility gives them false hope that they can do something with their lives, then I just say STFU cause that point has ABSOLUTELY no basis.


    Dude, you done split yo' head wide open.

    Clean that stuff up, check your stupidity and inability to sustain, support, substantiate and/or articulate your position then get back to me. Otherwise... Don't Bring That WEAK SH|T off in here.

    That Black folks can succeed or "do something with their lives" has never been in doubt. You might have such inferiority insecurities but don't bring that SELF-LOATHING type of BS up in here. To me. You got the wrong guy.

    Talking Points won't save you. What I am "criticizing" Cosby for is no mystery. That you can't be honest and lay your arguments down on the TRUTH about what I have actually said is all on you and your weak a$$ position and the BS that Cosby's on too.

    The truth is, it is you and your argument... your issues with me and what you can't deal with... all that stuff you're on HAS ABSOLUTELY NO BASIS.

    Just like this sh*t:


    quote:
  • Cosby is saying that they did not show both sides of the story... [The] WP was not doing its job as a newspaper to do a fair and balanced report.

  • its rediculous to believe that they couldn't find one guy to say, "I don't like the state of Black Men in America"
  • The path to the corner is set early for some black men. While school achievement has been a growing concern for boys of most every ethnicity, the problem is most acute among black boys, who are far more likely to be left back, be assigned to special education, score poorly on standardized tests, be suspended from school or eventually drop out than any other demographic group, numerous studies show.

    Once they leave school, nearly three-quarters of black men in their twenties are jobless or incarcerated, an unemployment rate much higher than that of similarly situated white and Hispanic youth, according to a report from the Urban Institute.

    "There has been a big change in what is thought of as normal in poor black communities," says John H. McWhorter, a senior fellow at the conservative Manhattan Institute, which is hosting a conference on black men this month. "Back in the old days, there were always black men who were not interested in working. They were called corner men. But years ago, if you were a black man and you didn't work, it was a shame. Now, the shame is gone."

    [...................................]

    Trying to reverse these trends through a broad public policy strategy is at the heart of the Dellums Commission, named after former congressman Ronald Dellums (D-Calif.). The commission will issue its report later this year. "This is beyond a crisis," says Gail Christopher, a vice president at the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies, who is overseeing the commission's study of the problems affecting young men of color. "It is a catastrophe."




    Now what is Cosby's issue?



    (From "At the Corner of Progress and Peril" - pg 3)
    Coz is a bad muther... Hush yo mouth! ....I'm just talkin' about HNIC?


    quote:
    From... THE BRIDGE: Stupid A$$ Cosby


    ...Dr. Marc Lamont Hill is a young Hip-Hop Intellectual, and a professor at Cosby's alma mater, Temple University. Dr. Hill is also one of Cosby's detractors and for being such, the fat old fart called Dr. Hill's job.

    Now, he claimed that he didn't want to get Dr. Hill in trouble, and that he only wanted to express that his own project was being undermined by Dr. Hill's writing. But, really, if you aren't trying to get someone in trouble, why the hell would you call their job?

    He then went on a conservative radio show after Dr. Hill appeared and worked with the show's host to belittle and berate the man, while making certain that he could not call in and defend himself.

    Damn, Cos! Is that your get down?

    You have sunken to a new low, and, quite frankly, that's a bitch move.

    http://www.eurweb.com/story/eur27256.cfm



    Now, if that's how it went down... All I have to say is "Damn! All the brother did was say..."


    quote:
    What makes Cosby's claims so seductive is that they are lightly dipped in truth.
    {{{ And, as I've said before... EVEN THE DEVIL KNOWS THE TRUTH! }}}

    Of course, there are black (and white!) men who won't work, father multiple children and devalue education. To be certain, they should not merely play the "blame game" but should work hard to improve and ultimately overcome their social circumstances.

    The problem is that Cosby's incessant citations of black men's failings, in addition to being overstated, do not acknowledge the structural issues that undermine his gospel of individual responsibility.

    In fact, they largely serve to reinforce a public indifference and outright animus toward the black poor that make it more difficult to enact self-help projects.

    Instead of merely exhorting poor black men to do better, Cosby must also identify the social obstructions to individual betterment. Differential prison sentencing, draconian child support policies and subpar schools are just a few of the factors that undermine the life chances of even the most industrious poor black men.

    While one could certainly point to Cosby's extraordinary philanthropy as evidence of his commitment to young black men, such generosity must be accompanied by a critical and equally public analysis of America's own culpability in our social plight.



    Dr. King was keen on talking about how such things were Interrelated and Interdependent -
    one thing bearing a relationship and being impacted by the other. Interconnected.
    Last edited {1}
    COSBY: Upon Chris Rock Shall I Build My Church. Amen?


    quote:
    Cosby's commentary is also strikingly similar to the words of a younger, hipper cultural critic: comedian Chris Rock. In Rock's "Niggas vs. Black people" routine from his breakthrough 1996 "Bring the Pain" tour, Rock contrasted the values of middle class blacks with lower-income blacks who had succumbed to a kind of gangsta despair. Among Rock's observations: some blacks liked watching movies in cinemas, other liked shooting them up; some blacks tried to be responsible, others thought if they merely took care of their babies they were doing something special.


    "There's like a civil war going on with black people," Rock announced.
    "There are two sides: there's black people, and there's niggas.
    And niggas have got to go."


    http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,645801,00.html
    Back to Channel Live... Go 'head HNIC.


    quote:

    A few weeks ago, my piece about Bill Cosby turned me into a lightning rod for both legitimate critique and mean-spirited criticism. Perhaps the most surprising and troubling response has come from Dr. Cosby himself.

    The day that I published the piece, Dr. Cosby made a call to the dean of my college. To be fair, the Coz explicitly stated that he didn't want the dean to do anything to me. Instead, he wanted to express his concern that I was undermining his project. Still, I'm sure that he understood the significance of the school's most famous and coveted alumnus/donor making a call about a young, untenured professor.

    But it doesn't stop there.

    Over the next few days, I did a series of radio interviews where I discussed the op-ed. In each interview, I reiterated both my respect for Dr. Cosby and my critique of his "Call Out" tour. I did a show in Atlanta with a Black conservative who decided that "he would put me in my place." Over the next hour, I proceeded to punish him with reasoned arguments and strong examples.

    A few minutes after the interview ended, I received a call from a friend in Atlanta. He told me, "Go on the internet and tune into the station. Bill Cosby just got on the radio and he's talking about you!"

    [.............................]


    http://www.blackcommentator.com/188/188_cosby_hill_pf.html
    quote:
    "A lot of the people who criticize me are angry because the job that they were supposed to be doing hasn't been getting done," he said. "We've been able to give people examples of other people in their communities who've been down and are now up. If I didn't like poor people, why would I come and tell them how to make their lives better?"


    H-to-the-N-to-the-I-to-the-C


    quote:
    One of the stories Cosby told the Tuesday forum was of how Black Muslims rid a Washington, D.C., community of drug dealers. He said the Christians did nothing but talk about how bad it was and how God would make a way. But DeBorah Johnson, director of the Ward 8 Learning Community in Washington, told the story of a 14,000-member church in her neighborhood that has aggressively reached out to people in need.

    Cosby said in an interview afterward that one of the most valuable aspects of his "Call Outs" is the opportunity they offer people to hear stories of success like Johnson's.

    He realizes he comes into cities for just one day, he said, but his hope is that his forums will bring community groups together and give them inspiration to move forward after he's gone.


    H-to-the-N-to-the-I-to-the-C



    ______________________________________ ______________________________________
    Exactly, all HNIC...

    Oh but this is the core:

    Black leadership, says Kelley, no longer functions as a means to the end of creating the conditions under which Black Americans might enjoy material, cultural, and social equality with white Americans. The inability...to solve problems...has led to the rise of "symbolic politicians"...who aspire to the pretense of leadership without being accountable or presenting solutions.


    BEING ACCOUNTABLE... PRESENTING SOLUTIONS...

    Putting your foot in your mouth and other such stumblef~cks are NOT "solutions."



    I did, however, give Faheem a hat-tip...

    On Cos... Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe MLK, DuBois, etc. went poor communities to give them some "inspiration." I'm sure MLK did it once he, the King, came down off his throne on top of the mountaintop.
    Last edited {1}
    you really have something against Cosby. Get over it.

    The thread was started about the WP article because you felt he was being a HNIC for disagreeing. Don't try to widen the argument since you know you don't have a leg to stand on. You're bringing up all these outside stories like they relate. But the point is, the WP article wasn't a HNIC issue, no matter how you slant it.

    Now, if you want to have a discussion about Cosby's methods and what he has been saying over the past few years, we can do that in a different thread, but what he did 2 years ago doesn't make him trying to be a HNIC with the WP article.
    quote:
    Originally posted by Blake Manner:

    The thread was started about the WP article because you felt he was being a HNIC for disagreeing.



    Dude, MY thread was started with SARCASM. It went right over your head, links and all. You flipped the hell out saying DUMB schitz in your pathetic defense of Cosby. You CONTRADICTED yourself left and right.

    Don't cry to me because your emotions lead you into dark alleys. And I don't need legs when I got you hemmed up like this:

    [The] WP was not doing its job as a newspaper to do a fair and balanced report.
    _______________________ VS _______________________

    Well, obviously Cosby wasn't sayisfied with them just stating the facts.



    Don't you ever open your mouth when you come at me like that. Don't ever let your emotions write a check for you that your ILLITERATE (i.e. refused to read info. at your disposal) azz can't cash.

    My argument wasn't "widened"... I got bored. I could have started other threads but this Cosby stuff, as a topic, is pretty dead. Lame and weak Cosby-ites come and try to throw some of any ole BS just to see if it will stick. You... you just started throwing up anything, now yo' 'tummie hurts. Too much regurgi-puking for you trying to desperately say something in defense of your emotions.

    I admit, I am a bit entertained by the other tidbits. Even more so because you left me so bored.

    Also... you wanted to open your mouth, I directed you back to... DAMN, to something that was already posted on page 2. That DEFINITIVE on HNIC need not be related or tied to the WP. It is DEFINITIVE with or without it, FYI.

    And....


    "I don't want to hear that shit!"



    ... is H-to-the-N-to-the-I-to-the-C
    Last edited {1}
    quote:
    Doesn't matter how you take it. People take Cosby's comments different from how you or certainly how others who favor Cosby's RHETORIC take them. Essentially, Cosby was lamblasting the WP for not writing the articles and making presentations the way Cosby wanted them to... the way Cosby would have the story portrayed.

    That's HNIC-isms at it's finest, according to KWELI's definition.



    Please try to keep up.
    Now Cosby is right about personal responsibility and community-mindedness. But he's wrong putting this squarely on the shoulders of the Black working class and the Black underclass. I could go on for hours about how the Black middle class contributes just as much to the problems of Black America in general.


    Cosby is the voice of a segment of spoiled Black middle strata people who think they've "made it" and view their less fortunate bretheren and sisters as the source of their problems. They view them as "the reason I'm not a multi-millionaire yet".
    I actually saw these comments last night and I couldn't help but think of how STUPID this thread is. I'll just post a part of the transcript so that anyone who cares can see my point.

    Here's a link to the transcript of the event:


    And here's the Cosby quote in actual context.

    quote:

    PHILIP BENNETT:
    Thank you, Drew. Good morning, everyone. A few months back, my colleague Kevin Merida, who is here and who supervised this project, came to me with an idea to illustrate the first story in this series. "Call up Colin Powell," he said, "Gilda Durenis
    [ph], the rapper Inkwell and other local luminaries, an executive, a pastor, a NASA engineer. Call them up out of the blue and ask them to show up for a group portrait at a D.C. elementary school for a project that was going to be called, ˜Being a Black Man.'" I think my response was something like, "Uh huh." Well, here is the picture that resulted from that gathering. The people in the picture got what this was about and readers have gotten it, too. Today, I think that gathering in May was in a sense a prelude to the gathering we have here today. It goes to the heart of this project – to bring together diverse views and experiences, to look in a new way at a common set of difficult issues. What does it mean to be a Black man? This was the question that inspired the early discussions at The Post that resulted in this project. Journalists love great questions, and I think there was an urgency and an exciting sense of possibility attached to answering this one. Part of the urgency came from an awareness that the news media, especially a great newspaper with outstanding journalists in a capital city with a large African American population, faced the challenge to do justice to the variety and depth of experience of people of color, to take on the hardest issues facing our communities in a series and systematic way. Almost 40 years have passed since the Kerner Commission concluded on matters of race the communications media ironically have failed to communicate. A lot has changed since then, but it's still a challenge that resonates. What does it mean to be a Black man? Our reporting, including the result of the survey conducted with the Kaiser Foundation and Harvard University, shows that many Black men live with contradictions of opportunity and limitations, of hopefulness and despair, in a place where things generally seem good, but can and do get bad in a heartbeat. We've tried to move from the data to the actual experience of Black men living in the Washington area, through a series of narratives about individual lives. For Mark Yarborough, a 45-year-old contracting specialist for the Army, being a Black man means, in part, trying to prepare his 9-year-old son, Marcus, for the day when he will walk in the world as a Black man. "I call this his day of reckoning," Mark said. "I don't know when it's coming, but it's coming. I want him to be ready." For Eric Motley, a 33-year-old Bush administration official, being a Black man meant, in part, charting his own course from his high-achieving Black community in Montgomery, Alabama, a stronghold for Democrats, to the largely White world of Republican politics. "I'm tired of that word ˜sellout,'" he told Will Haygood. For Jachin Leatherman and Wayne Nesbit, the valedictorian and salutatorian at Ballou High School, who are here with us today, being Black men meant making a path to make a difference, in their own lives and in others'. Pherlius Fishern IV
    [ph], a hairdresser who spent weeks in jail because no officials in the criminal justice system would perform the simple check to verify that, as he was trying to tell them, they had arrested the wrong man, being a Black man meant, in part, that losing your identity could mean losing your life. These are the stories that we've told so far and the outpouring and response from readers and thousands of messages has been like few things I've seen in my career. We have more stories to come, and we're discovering new insights. This is a work in progress. We, as journalists, are looking to this morning's session to advance that work. Thanks.
    [Applause]
    DREW E. ALTMAN, PhD:
    Phil, thank you very much. I think The Post deserves a lot of credit for this project. My job is to say a few things about the survey in just a couple of minutes, so let me start with, why did we do this? Well, we did this survey, all of us together – Post, Kaiser, Harvard – we did it for three reasons. First of all, there was, of course, a research purpose to bring new data to the national discussion about this issue. I think we've done that. You have a summary of all the findings – I'm not going to go through them before this forum – in your chart pack. I think it punctures a lot of myths, a lot of stereotypes, and I think that's a contribution. Secondly, there was definitely a journalistic purpose behind this survey, to use the survey results as a springboard, if you will, for the remarkable stories you see in the series in The Post to provide facts and context for the storytelling in The Post and then, for me, there was the most important purpose of all, to give voice, through the survey, to Black men themselves and especially to young Black men in the national discussion and debate about them, just as we will do today through the makeup of this panel. So, what did they say in this survey? This is not a research conference and I just today want to very quickly highlight a few things. And the first one is this: public stereotypes notwithstanding, young Black men do not equal troubled young Black men. Those are not the same things, and I will spare you the data completely. But what they show is that, while young Black men do face challenges, and they definitely have to worry about things that their White counterparts don't worry about, because of the history of our country and deep underlying issues like racism in our country, most young Black men are doing pretty well, they're feeling pretty good about their lives, they're optimistic about their futures. I'm not sure that that's the general picture that most Americans have in their heads about young Black men in America. So, that's the first point. The second point, the smaller – but I would add, emphatically, by no means small; it's not small at all – group of troubled young Black men. They have all the problems that you know about, from drugs to crime to children out of wedlock, to violence in their lives, but their stories are not simple, they don't all move in one direction, just "bad," as many people think, they're not without hope, so let me just show you one chart about that, if this will come up – which it won't. There we – let's try again. Um-hum. Great. Let's go back. I do want to show you
    [inaudible] violence. I'm good now? You promise? Okay. Thank you. These are young Black men with problems, the kinds of problems a big chunk of young Black men, but not the majority, with the kinds of problems you're familiar with – been in prison, problem with alcohol, drugs and other problems. But, look, 86 percent say being successful and a career is very important to them; 83 percent are mostly optimistic about their future. A big percentage prays at least once a day. Only 10 percent feel hopeless a lot of the time. Since this forum is entitled, "Paths to Success," I thought I'd emphasis the results in this survey that show there's something to build on, even for troubled young men. And, finally, just in these brief, selective highlights from this survey, what does this survey say about where solutions may lie? When I was Human Services Commissioner – this was some time ago – in the state of New Jersey, I was in Cumberland County, New Jersey, which I'm sure most of you have never heard of. It's in the far southwestern corner of New Jersey. It's actually below the Mason-Dixon line, and it's actually the most troubled part of New Jersey, by the statistics about problems, worse than Camden and even worse than Newark, and I was implementing my biggest initiative, which was a school-based services initiative – 90 school-based services sites across the state – and I was meeting with young people, and I was being the technocrat. So, I was asking them, "What's the most important service to put in these school-based services sites? Do you need medical care? Do you need mental health services? Do you need counseling? Do you want a pool table? Do you want midnight basketball? What is it?" And I'll never forget this young man looked up at me, and he said, rightly, "Commissioner, you just don't get it at all. It's not this or that service; what we need is somebody we can talk to whom we trust." And what it really said to me is there's no single magic answer, there's no single intervention that will unlock the hearts and minds of every troubled young man or woman, and there isn't one in this survey, either. But there were two things that jumped out as important when we asked the question, "What variables, or what factors, in this survey are the strongest predictors of avoiding problems and doing better in life?" And that's the last thing I want to show you here, avoiding problems. What were the strongest predictors? And the winners in this survey were "staying in school," and the longer the better so, graduating from high school was more powerful than some high school or college more powerful than high school, and having hope for the future. Hopelessness was a big enemy and, obviously, no single way to defeat hopelessness. With those highlights we're ready to turn the program over to Professor Ogletree. I know he needs littleintroduction to this audience. I'm just going to say that he's, as you know, a distinguished professor of law at Harvard University, he is a distinguished scholar and author. He also, by the way, has strong roots in this community, having served in the D.C. public defender's office where, by the way, his daughter works today as chair of the board of U.D.C., he's a vital member of our board of trustees, whom our chair of our board, Sheila Burke, who's sitting right here, and I rely on tremendously, and he has a special status I didn't think could be achieved: he's at least as fervent a Boston Red Sox fan as I am. We begin with a short video produced by The Post as part of their multimedia series and then, with no further intervention from me, Professor Ogletree, and a man who needs absolutely no introduction to this group, our expert guest of honor, Dr. Cosby. Thank you very much.
    PROFESSOR CHARLES J. OGLETREE, JR, JD:
    Black men of D.C. What does it mean to be a Black man?
    MALE SPEAKER:
    What does it mean to be a Black man? What it means to be a Black man...
    MALE SPEAKER:
    What does it mean to be a Black man?
    PROFESSOR CHARLES J. OGLETREE, JR, JD:
    Is there racism in the world? Sure. But it doesn't have to begin your stumbling block.
    MALE SPEAKER:
    Difficult to be a Black man in America now.
    PROFESSOR CHARLES J. OGLETREE, JR, JD:
    To be a Black man is to know that your history has been totally transformed. At one time you could be sold for less than $50. Now, you can do anything that anyone else can do.
    MALE SPEAKER:
    With good training, perseverance, and, certainly, in my view as a reverend, depending on Jesus Christ, you can accomplish whatever you'd like.
    MALE SPEAKER:
    The struggle. You know, you're out here on the streets like I am, you know, you need somebody to try to help you, so you can be able to survive.
    MALE SPEAKER:
    It is an unfortunate aspect of my job and many of the people I take care of are Black.
    MALE SPEAKER:
    We're playing basketball and the police come over and
    [inaudible] some arrests. It's hard being a Black man in D.C.; a whole lot of discrimination is going on.
    MALE SPEAKER:
    A man is a male who is honest, reliable, as well as self-reliable. And he assumes responsibility, not only for his own actions, but for the actions of those persons he is responsible for.
    MALE SPEAKER:
    Blacks in America should never forget, we've got nothing out of this country that we didn't fight for.
    MALE SPEAKER:

    [inaudible] still smoking .45 and begins to cry
    [inaudible] looks in some eye, brown lifeless eyes, dialing 911 but it's too late, I'm already drifting towards Heaven and that's when I view my funeral
    [inaudible] my mom screams through the top of her lungs, "Don't you see? You're killing each other! Over what?"
    MALE SPEAKER:
    You know, I think I've done a tremendous amount and I think I've been an incredible role model as an African American leader.
    MALE SPEAKER:
    We have our advantages, you know? The women love us – all races. They love us, because we're beautiful.
    MALE SPEAKER:
    Well, I actually think I'm a better role model than some quarterback having sex on a lake in front of some kids, quite frankly.
    MALE SPEAKER:
    Well, you have to be extra strong.
    MALE SPEAKER:
    I think the obligation that I have, particularly as a Black man, but also as a Black physician, is to help the system recognize that these young Black men that we're referring to who are victims of violence are people, and they live life just like everyone else does.
    MALE SPEAKER:
    I can show people that I can make it in the world and that we are all part of the people and that we shouldn't hold grudges against nobody.
    MALE SPEAKER:
    Self-empowerment.
    MALE SPEAKER:
    Actually, I define myself as being a person who – well, there's no question about it; I am colored, or Black, or Negro, something that I'll be the rest of my life.
    MALE SPEAKER:
    Unless you've been baptized by fire, I mean, you're not going to get the fire. You can't lead where you won't go. You can't teach what you don't know.
    MALE SPEAKER:
    But, at the same time, to be a Black man is a wonderful thing. It's a wonderful thing; it's not always a struggle. Sometimes it's a good thing, too. You know what I'm saying? The women, the people you meet, the history that we have and the future that we got. You know what I'm saying?
    MALE SPEAKER:
    All you see is Black men provoking crime in my area, especially. So, I feel like I'm a role model for the young kids, show that there's positive leaders out here, you know.
    MALE SPEAKER:
    Anyone who has the potential of being treated as a second-class or sub-citizen, we should be their ally, based on our history.
    MALE SPEAKER:
    I do believe that there are some who are, in defining themselves, like to think of themselves as not being Black.
    MALE SPEAKER:
    When it's asked to me, "What does it mean to be a Black man? What does it mean to be a Black gay man?" It means for me to embrace fully who I am.
    MALE SPEAKER:
    And that's something that you can't afford wherever you go, whatever you do, how high you go, you are that.
    MALE SPEAKER:
    Most of the time, when I find people angry with me, what they're really saying is, "How dare you to live so boldly?"
    MALE SPEAKER:
    And you know, growing up, well, now, when being Black wasn't positive; that wasn't much of a compliment, maybe I cringe a little bit still when I'm referred to as a "Black," but I'm learning to live with it.
    MALE SPEAKER:
    Dr. Cosby, thank you for joining us today. I wanted to first say thank you to you and Camille Cosby for what you have done.
    WILLIAM H. COSBY, JR., Ed.D.:
    Now you've saved the day.
    MALE SPEAKER:
    Absolutely. Well, because what we do know is that for decades the two of you have publicly and privately given millions and millions of dollars to address these issues. You haven't run for political office yet. You haven't announced that you're trying to be a national spokesperson but, two years ago, at the celebration of the 50th anniversary of Brown, you stood up to say there is a problem in our community, and we need to address it. And here we are at this forum today talking about Black men, and it's hard even to find a Black man, but your sense about what do we have to do, what's your sense about what we have to do as a large community, to address the problems of Black men, plural?
    WILLIAM H. COSBY, JR., Ed.D:
    This is going to be very quick. It's the way I like it. The Washington Post ran a clip and then they edited it, and then they showed us – somebody did – of what they wanted us to see these men saying, defining what is a Black man? Unless I missed it, I heard not one Black man say anything about being a father. I heard not one Black man say, "My responsibility..." – not, not – they just didn't say – I heard one fellow say, "I am this and I feel that I am an example of ...," but the family and the structure of it, not one edited version of these people with a camera on a drive-by. I'm looking to media – and I don't like media. I don't like people who see and can't tell the truth. I don't like people who talk about Jesus and misunderstand the contract between the human being and God. If we are Christian we believe in it – I'm not saying one's better than the other – but our contract was – and is – to look after the garden. This is God's garden. It doesn't say – just because it says, "The Lord will find a way," it doesn't mean for you to sit there and wait for Jesus to come and cut your grass. The Lord gave me strength to continue to stay afloat until help came for survival, etcetera, etcetera. I'm talking about that film. I'm talking about the newspaper. I'm talking about things called "statistics," where a man tells me, "Actually, it's not as bad as it is." I don't want to hear that shit. I want to hear that one death caused by somebody with an AK-somethingdy-something, "How did he get it? He's got no place to practice. He aims at you and shoots and hits homes." You understand me?
    MALE SPEAKER:
    Indeed.
    WILLIAM H. COSBY, JR., Ed.D:
    I'm not interested in his statistics telling me things are not as bad as they seem; they're horrible. They're horrible. You're going to hear from this panel – and these people are not drive-by people trying to define something. These are people who are helping. And they have their own numbers. They have their own jobs and they have their own wants. All I know is, Doctor, when I was in Newark, and a woman stood up to speak to somebody from the school council of
    [inaudible] – and these are people of my color – this still is a problem. People like this. We used to be able to vote this way, and know that that was protection against this color. No, no. They're in cahoots and they dislike us as much. And these school people who keep coming back and saying, "Well, we just had a meeting. We just went out on a summit. We went someplace and we're going to put this out." It should have been out. Things should have been out. I don't know when it was that Jesse Jackson said to me, "Babies having babies." When he said it, it should have been out and action should have started – immediately. Us. It's on us. Congresswoman Holmes Norton said, "People give money, but that has to do with the money giving. We still have to behave with it." How true. There was a meeting – and I'm finishing up now – a gentleman who
    [inaudible] Arthur Ashe
    [inaudible] was at Harvard. We flew in. He wanted to start a school, a private school, for African American kids, brilliant people, and he was talking about this school. So, one of the people he had invited was a gentleman who had run the Harlem School of something-something. I remember doing two benefits for them because they had run out of money and they needed money. We do the benefit, put some money in, and then they came back again. "We've run out of money again." This is Black people. "We've run out of money again." We did another benefit and then the thing closed. So, I said to the gentleman, "Well, here's a gentleman who's had experience running this kind of thing. What happened?" And this Black man said the following – and he felt very comfortable because he's sitting around the table with Black people. He said, "They gave us a million dollars and didn't tell us what to do with it." And I said to him, "Why did you take the money? Did you think you were really stealing and taking something from them? You can't do this. This is not a time to play." I hear, and I have met people crying about what's happening. And no solution yet. They were just crying because people like the ones on this panel were actually moving to do something about it, were saying things. You see what I'm saying? I'm not interested in some jagumbooms who want to write in their newspaper that I said they're a bunch of knuckleheads and I said that they're cursing, and I said – and then the next thing you know there's a whole fire going out, when the newspaper never did print that I said our children are trying to tell us something and we're not listening. See, that newspaper – The Washington Post – didn't print that, because it would have been too much information. It would have taken away the crap that they were trying to start. Well, good. Because you can stay as angry as you want with me. I am saying what I feel, what elders are saying. People who can't speak, who are too old and too scared, too diabetic, too high blood-pressured, young babies born – I don't care what the statistics say; a Black child in the hospital – there's two words: disadvantaged and the other one? What? No. Disadvantaged and? Poor. Yes. Black. That's what they see. People see that. And if you dress differently, I don't care what these statistics say. You put on a suit and a tie and you're 18 years old and you get on a bus and if you're over six feet tall, some White person is gonna say, "You play basketball?" I don't care about these damn statistics, man. I'm tired of this "drive-by" crap. We need to talk to the human beings here – and I know about five or six of them. When you hear them talk, they have a passion, and they're for real, Doctor. And they will tell you that a junkie and her 8-year-old son are not statistics. It's a real happening. They will tell you that anyplace in this audience some of these people have cousins, nephews, shooting up. You understand? It's not a statistic to them. That's Arthur. And we can't let Arthur in our house, because Arthur will steal our money. Doesn't have anything to do with who's Black. Yeah, there are White people doing the same thing. But this is kinda shammy. Harvard does a study – beautiful. But I'm talking about who's on there? What? Get something done. We need bodies on these young men, bodies on them. Bodies are on every successful – and they even put bodies on themselves, when you hear the young men from S.O.S. speak.


    So you can easily see that Cosby was not referring to the series of stories in the Post, but the videos which he was watching at the event itself.

    parts of the transcript:
    Last edited {1}
    And here are Cosby's comments about the series of stories in the Post (in context).

    quote:

    DREW E. ALTMAN, PhD:
    Okay. I'm going to go to Rev. Issac and Dr. Rousseau in just a minute. I want to go to Steve Holmes. You've heard a lot – Steve, I wanted to ask you one question to respond, and then you can talk about other issues that you want to reflect on. There's been a lot of criticism in the media today and you've been patiently listening to it, but, to what extent do you, as an African American male working for The Post, and having worked for The New York Times and editor now, to what extent, even with this series on being a Black man, do you see it as a crisis, as others have described it, or is that too dramatic? The anger, the frustration, the rage – there is a crisis. Is that an appropriate description of what you have researched, investigated, and what you want to report on, or is it something different?
    STEVEN HOLMES:
    Well, I think whenever you have about 30 percent of any particular group in trouble, that's crisis. I don't think there is any question about that. But I also think that we should never forget that the opposite of that is 70 percent who are doing pretty well. And certain people have said that they don't want to hear about that, they just want to focus on the crisis, to make sure something is done about the crisis. I have no argument about that, except to say that I ded 1 think it gives a distorted picture of Black men. Now, if we want to have a distorted picture, that's fine, but understand that that's what it is. It doesn't make us complacent to say that 70 percent of Black men are doing just fine; it just makes us realistic and accurate. And I think accuracy is what, at least we in journalism, should strive for.
    DREW E. ALTMAN, PhD:
    And are you worried, as well, about an audience, a broader – your audience, readership – not responding well if it's only bad news? I mean, is there some value in the good stories, in the success stories? Is that part of the theory there, that we want this wider community, not just the Black man, but the whole Washington and national community know that there are some incredible, successful, brilliant, talented, gifted black Men who are doing important things in America today?
    STEVEN HOLMES: Well, obviously I think it's important that the wider community have an accurate picture of the Black man. To me, as a journalist, I think accuracy is the thing that I strive for the most. And whether that accuracy leads people to become enraged, complacent, or whatever, is actually not my responsibility. My responsibility is to present the truth, whatever that truth is. And, as I said before, 30 percent of any group that's in trouble is a crisis. And we shouldn't forget that.
    DREW E. ALTMAN, PhD:
    Let me just – one other point, Steve. I read in The Post this morning one of your colleagues ded 1 wrote an opinion editorial concerned about Washington, D.C. No one should die; we are not wishing death on anyone, but his point was a White person died in Georgetown and it became a crisis for Washington, D.C., where 99 Black men have died this year and it was a footnote. How does the press – I mean, that felt like it should be a front-page story, but it was a powerful statement about his own paper about, "Are we getting this right by focusing on what generates news," as opposed to say, "Isn't it ironic?" as he said, which is correct. Crime, violent crime, has gone down, here and everywhere else, from the ˜80s until the 21st century. But, yet, we see an incident, and it makes it seem as if people have to lock their gates, and the image of crime is Black and male. How do we deal with that?
    STEVEN HOLMES:
    Well, again, I hate to sound repetitious, but I think that the thing that we in journalism should strive for is accuracy. If it's accurate to say – and tragic, by the way – to say that 99 percent of the murders in D.C. are of young Black men, killed by young Black men, we should say it. That is going to lead people to believe certain things, but it's our responsibility to be accurate, to be truthful, not to try and hide things. It's also our responsibility, I believe, to make sure we don't emphasize things that sort of distort pictures. And I agreed with my colleague that having front-page news on the unfortunate and tragic incident of the White man having his ded 1 throat slashed in Georgetown and virtually ignoring so many of the other killings in other parts of D.C. involving young Black men is wrong and that we should strive not to do that.
    DREW E. ALTMAN, PhD:
    All right. We've got five people here who are ...
    STEVEN HOLMES:
    Can I make one quick point?
    DREW E. ALTMAN, PhD:
    Yes.
    STEVEN HOLMES:
    And I'll be really brief and really quick. Because it goes to Jachin's and Wayne's story. I think it was inspirational – this story was inspirational but it was inspirational for two things. It's inspirational for what they did for themselves, but I got even more inspired reading about what they did to their colleagues and their friends on the football team. And that they convinced them to study hard and to get into AP classes. And it brought to mind something that was in the poll that I just wanted to highlight really quickly. We talk an awful lot about family and the problems with the Black family. There's also an issue about friendship. In the poll we asked people what they considered important and one of the things we asked was, having lots of close friends, how important was that? Only 26 percent of Black men said having lots of close friends is an important thing to them. That compared to 55 percent of White men. There's a huge disparity in the value that young Black men, especially, place on friendship. And friendship is 1 kaisernetwork.org make f written transcripts, but due to the nature of transcribing recorded s every effort to ensure the accuracy o really, really important and often overlooked. You find jobs through friendship, you find schools through friendship, you find good relationships, you get good advice. Now, some people will say you also get really bad advice from friends. And that's true, that there's a chance that you'll get bad advice from your friends. There's also a chance that, if you have friends like Jachin and Wayne, you'll get good advice. But the only guarantee is that if you have no friends, you get no advice. And no advice is probably the biggest reason why people make bad choices. And, so, as we focus on family and institutions, we also have to figure out ways that Black men can be friends with each other.
    DREW E. ALTMAN, PhD:
    Great. Well, let me just ask you one final point, and I'll go to the five to conclude, and that is, could you say a word about how people – because we've got a radio audience and a TV audience – how they can find the series on being a Black man and can you preview for us, if you can – this started in June and this is going to go for an entire year – do you have a rough idea of what else will happen, so we can think about reconvening this audience a year from now, to figure out whether we've done more to solve the problem, or just report it?
    STEVEN HOLMES:
    Well, like the rest of Washington, we're taking the summer off and we will start up again with the series in September in the fall.
    DREW E. ALTMAN, PhD:
    Now, you're not really taking the ded 1 summer off; the paper comes out every day, right?
    STEVEN HOLMES:
    The series is taking the summer off.
    DREW E. ALTMAN, PhD:
    And the series will start again in September?
    STEVEN HOLMES:
    In the fall, yes.
    DREW E. ALTMAN, PhD:
    Okay.
    WILLIAM H. COSBY, JR., Ed.D: I don't understand how you can do that, man. I really don't. And I don't mean to harass you, but we're talking about – you said 30 percent was – I don't know the word – I don't remember the word you used – "crisis" – out of – how can you take off the summer, not writing what you ought to be writing, I think, when our children are out on the streets? School is out. People need to, as you say, hear the truth, see the truth, and this is a predominantly Black area, although your paper goes to the White people – Virginia, Maryland, whatever – what are you afraid – what is your paper – huh?
    FEMALE SPEAKER:
    We've got some White people in D.C.
    WILLIAM H. COSBY, JR., Ed.D: Well, you've got – yeah. Well, those people go – and they go back in their house or whatever. I'm not arguing – my point is, what the hell is closing down on issues like this in the summer? The most important time when our children – it's a hundred and something degrees outside. These people are very sad, they're confused, they have nobody. They think they want jobs, but there is nobody addressing them. Where does your paper give the help orded 70 from the series that was run, if you're going to do it, as opposed to – don't you have somebody? Some junior people, from somewhere, who would love to just have somebody mediate some papers or something to put in your paper over the summer, giving ideas? You could have these two guys write articles for your paper and put it out.
    [Applause] I mean, I don't understand. Yeah, go on vacation. Spend the money that you're making while you're – not you, but the people. It's just horrendous, to me. Thirty percent. Let's look at 30 percent. The 70 are doing fine. That's what they are supposed to be doing. But the 30 percent that's not could shoot some of the 70. The 30 percent need to be cut to at least five percent. These young men – you talk about friendship? Talk to some people who graduate from Howard University. Ask them how many friends they have. They have friends from Chicago, they have friends from Detroit, they have friends from Boise, Idaho. All over the joint. So, I'm just begging you, Washington Post, Harvard University, all you people who do this stuff and then report the numbers, we're more than numbers. A dead person on the street – ask the coroner, "What number was that, with the brains out on the sidewalk, who was 19 years old, who no longer can think?" You're not looking at a doctor or a lawyer or something, somebody that fixes elevators. I know I'm cheating when I say these things, but I mean ded 1 to. We've got to do better than this. I'm holding The Atlanta Constitution, The Washington Post, all these White newspapers, to look at these Black people as other than some people that you don't take seriously, and look at us and take us seriously. And I'm looking at Black writers who write for these papers to have some integrity, to stand up. You had your best shot when your Judas reported Jesse Jackson saying, "Hymie town." Okay, that's enough of that. Now, let's get down to fact. And, sir, it has nothing to do with you. I'm just spewing what I believe needs to be done this summer. No vacation anywhere at The Washington Post.
    DREW E. ALTMAN, PhD:
    I think the new publisher of The Washington Post has just given a directive to the editorial board and I'm sure we'll have an answer for you and I suspect, between June and September, there will be some more coverage on this issue. Thank you, Dr. Cosby. Let me ask Dr. Rousseau and the Rev. Issac – and I'm going to come to James Forman, Corey Wiggins and Mr. Murfree – who are out there doing things right now. Some of the good news – Dr. Rousseau, tell us what you're doing and why it's important, addressing issues as a community, family and Black men.
    Last edited {1}
    quote:

    quote:

    There are actually many programs out there that help ... usually small numbers of people here and there, but, any help is better than none at all. And the biggest problem is that we don't hear about these groups very much, don't know who/where they are and don't pay a lot of attention when we do find out. But a lot of times, when you real "feel good" stories, the names and/or website of those who are helping are listed right there. It's just a matter of taking the initiative to write down/find out who they are, what they're doing, and where they are located.


    Do you want to know a few of these programs? Go to the nex Bill Cosby speech, you'll probably find out about a few. Here are a few I found out about last night from Cosby's talk in July:


    quote:

    But my mother saved me.
    DREW E. ALTMAN, PhD:
    Thank you very much. Let me go to Bishop and Loose. First of all, let me thank both of you for coming. We appreciate the fact that what you've done – and most people don't know the story – but what you have done in Newark and what you did as two young men, thinking about we have to have peace as a first step to address the problems, and what you're doing now with S.O.S. So, can you tell us a little bit about S.O.S. and what you want this larger community to appreciate and understand about what you're going through and how important it is to address some of the problems in our urban community? Loose first?
    JAMES C. (LOOSE) WHITE, III:
    Well, just to start off by saying, it didn't just start with just me and Bishop, it was a number of people who care about their community, who care about themselves, and the whole thing right now is like, when we sit down, me and Bishop, we call it "two different sides of the fence." So, when we sit down we come from two different points of view but, at the same time, we come from a Black male point of view. You have to be a man first, you have to take care of yours and your own. So, we are strong. You know? And we – it's hard to get it out; I apologize.
    DREW E. ALTMAN, PhD:
    Take your time.
    JAMES C. (LOOSE) WHITE, III:
    When we sit down and talk, on an honest level, we see that there is a problem in our neighborhoods. We want to remove the problem from our neighborhoods. It's lack of finances, lack of education, it's a lack of love and that's just the bottom line right there. There's no love. It's not comfortable. And we need that. We need big brothers. We need the ˜70s back. That was an era of love. We don't have that no more. You know? And, I'm young. I wasn't here for the ˜70s. I'm still trying to remember things in the early ˜90s, so, it's a generation gap. I don't know what I haven't been through. And if I don't have nobody to tell me, which I prefer the older Black male, how am I going to know how to teach the younger ones underneath myself? And, that's just my point of view and the way I feel, that saving ourselves should be implemented so deeply into our roots and in our urban area in Essex County. And that's why I do this.
    DREW E. ALTMAN, PhD:
    Appreciate it. And, Bishop, do you want to take us back a little bit how saving ourselves got started and where you are now, in terms of going from just a few meetings, to creating an organization, to do some things in the community every single day?
    MARCELLUS (BISHOP) ALLEN:
    Well, first of all, this is the furthest we've got. But as far as May 21, 2004, we had a cease-fire agreement, not a peace treaty, a cease-fire agreement, where the Bloods and Cripps came together in a certain building to try to just agree on some things dealing with the neighborhoods. I mean, at that time it was really getting out of hand with the shootings here, there, just anywhere. And we figured, with the help of certain individuals in that city, mediators like
    [inaudible], Panthers and things like that, you know, people that we could trust, we figured we could go a little further. So, we had this meeting. We agreed on some things, several sets from the Cripps' side and the Bloods' side, we agreed on it, and, from that day on, we basically tried to enforce it. Now, first, we need you all to know that we couldn't enforce this without a lot of street credibility. Because I'm going to let you know right now none of you can stop nothing that we want to do. None of y'all. And it took people like – and I'm going to say this. That day, I didn't want to do it. I didn't agree with it. It's just that I had a cousin, he believed in this, and I was always a family dude. It's just that, over the years, we lost. So, when he asked me to do it, I disagreed for a minute, but he came at me, kind of made me feel bad, because our main person talking about family this, family that, he threw it in my face, you know what I mean? So, when he did that, I had to think twice. So, I thought twice and I did it. I represented them that day. And when I seen the love that was in that room, or at least the people that acted like they wanted to do this, I figured, "Why not?" And I just totally went from there. And, like you said, we had several people that was down with this movement, people who got shot in the process, people who got locked up because, when it went down, police did not want it. I'm talking about that night people got arrested. You know, man? And this is what it is, when we're in a neighborhood, this is why a lot of people or a lot of brothers and sisters dealing with the gangs don't want to come out, because they figure this is what's going to happen, like, they got warrants, whatever, whatever, we can't even do something positive without getting record checks. You know what I mean? So, when this stuff go down, you got people that are just saying, "Man, to hell with it. We're going to do what we know to do and we're going to bang."
    DREW E. ALTMAN, PhD:
    What does Saving Ourselves represent in the Newark neighborhoods in the sense that other people aren't doing what they should be doing? Churches, schools, community organizations? How has this become the community that you both are a part of and other parts of the community have failed you in some ways?
    MARCELLUS (BISHOP) ALLEN:
    First, I believe the whole community failed us. That's number one.
    DREW E. ALTMAN, PhD:
    All right.
    MARCELLUS (BISHOP) ALLEN:
    Now, as far as what S.O.S. is trying to do – and I'm going to let you know, we're two years strong right now. I mean, we really don't have anything. We do this ourselves, but S.O.S., in itself, we want our younger brothers and sisters, particularly the gang members, since this is the big hype for the city, probably the world right now, we need them to know and understand that they've got an option in life. You've got to know you've got an option in life. If you don't know that, then we're lost. We're going to stay lost. So, if I've got to put my face, and Brother Loose has got to put his face on the front line and let them know that, hopefully, if they haven't chosen to knock us off, lock us up, whatever they want to do, hopefully, one of them young brothers and sisters will learn, and want to take our place. We need this movement to continue.


    ...

    quote:

    DR. JOSHUA W. MURFREE, JR.: Thank you very much for the opportunity. When I look around in this room – and I want you all not only to hear what has already been said, but to listen, because when you look out there, you have to ask yourself a question. "If not here, then where? If not you, ded 1 then who? If not now, then when?" Real men, given real time, what they see is what they'll be. When you look around this country, with 106 chapters in 32 states, with 10,000 members serving a 125,000 youth, we are about the business of being about the business of making a difference in the lives of young people. Now, I got to tell Congressman John Lewis that you all made me go last on this panel. Here's a homeboy from Georgia – not Atlanta, Georgia, but Albany, Georgia. So I had to drive 188 miles to the airport, because I don't fly on small planes. But I wanted to make it to D.C. this morning. When you look around this country, you've got to understand that there is a systemic problem. It didn't just start ten years ago. But when Roger Sperry
    [ph] started talking about split brain research, left and right, they understood that African Americans were more spatial, non-verbal and holistic. The entire school curriculum went that way and, ever since then, there has been ADD and ADHD and not understanding what should be done. There has been a disproportionate number of African Americans placed in the school. So the 100 Black Men stood up and got up and started something called the Wembly Project
    [ph]. We evaluate every student under special education. We found, if you take a hundred students, 50 percent of those students should have never been placed there. We had IQs that were beyond – they were telling families, when they had IQs and standard scores of ded 1 99, at the 99 percentile, they were still placing African American males in those particular schools. A trajectory problem – if you don't give me ADHD or ADD, then you put me on something called psycho-stimulants, Ritalin,
    [inaudible], Dexedrine, Ataral, Concert
    [ph] and everything else. But that's not good enough. You put me on an anti-depressant called Wellbutrin, Buspar, Prozac, all of that, just to slow me down. And if that's not good enough, then you put me in YDC and RYDC, then track me right into the prison system. But we have got to stand up. The 100 Black Men, at Congressional Black Caucus, came to the White House and said to them that we must change public policy. How in the world do you graduate from a high school or a college
    [inaudible] you can't find a job, but a compensatory law allows you to finish and just walk out of school at 16? What a sophisticated way of saying you don't want the African American male to make it. And then, all of a sudden, instead of me staying in the school and you deal with me, you send me to some type of something called an "academy," that I can't mainstream back in there. And, all of a sudden, you say to people in this country, "How can we change the game?" Now, I've heard a lot of issues and a lot of problems. The reason we get angry, inside the brain is an interior, singular cortex connected to the amygla. If, indeed, you say something to me, emotionally, I have the same feeling as if I ded 1 hit you on the leg. So, it stays with us. So, subliminally, we keep telling African American males they can't make it. Don't tell them that they're in prison. See, if you want to be successful, talk about being successful. If you want to be rich, don't talk about being poor. If you want to do something differently and change the game, talk about shifting the paradigm. If you want to shift the paradigm, you do what these brothers are doing with 100 Black Men right here in Washington, D.C. That's the president right there, serving over 650-something students, every Saturday teaching them about leadership. See, we've got to stop talking about what we need to be doing. It's always a state of Black men. We're in a state of denial, we're in a state of depression, we're in a state of madness, we're in a state of anger – now we need to get in a state of doing. So, once we start delivering – we've got to march people out of prison, we've got to say to folks that we're going to do this. So, when you start looking at an organization like 100 Black Men of America, we've had Jamie Fox, we've had
    [inaudible] with Susan Taylor,
    [inaudible] Houston with Steve Harvey saying we're going to launch this. We've had Bill there. And Bill Cosby, we went to the AJC and told them they were full of crap, because what he said was incorrect. He made the right statement but, then they rewrote that. But the media can exploit whatever they want to. Let people talk, let people write statistics. Don't believe in that. Be like the bumblebee. Physiologically, the bumblebee ded 1 is not supposed to be able to fly, because the wings are too small. But you know what? The bumblebee doesn't listen to? Something we need to start is whispers. May God bless you all.
    DREW E. ALTMAN, PhD:
    Thank you.
    [Applause] Let me say this. James Foreman mentioned the charter school here in Washington, D.C. I was very pleased with my wife and other parents, like Cathy Reddick and Caroline Hunter-Williams ten years ago, to start the Benjamin Banniker
    [ph] Charter School. And the purpose was not to criticize the public school system, but to save the children who were being lost. It was too old – our children were too old when we started the charter school, but the idea was to look at Benjamin Banniker, from slavery to freedom, from being nobody to being the surveyor here in Washington, D.C., from doing an almanac, and the school, which celebrates its 11th year this year, talks about math, science and technology. That is, the hard subjects, what these young men have succeeded in. And, at the same time, another student like James Earl Martin Phalen
    [ph], he's a Harvard Law School graduate, a Yale College graduate, he had all of the world ahead of him. And he wanted to do one thing, spend his career working with children. He started the Bale
    [ph] Foundation. And he gives after-school tutoring in summer school to 10,000 – we call them "scholars" – in Boston and New York and now Washington, D.C. We call every child, from the time they're third grade through eighth grade, orded 86 "scholars." And, so, all they think about is their success and that language matters. And it makes
    [inaudible] sense. I met with the Boston Red Sox new ownership when they came a few years ago and they said, "What can we do for the children?" I said, "You can help them with education." They said, "Great. We'll bring them over to Fenway Park, they'll go to a ballgame, give them hot dogs." I said, "No, no, no. That's not what I mean." And what the Red Sox have done is to take 25 African American fifth-graders from urban schools in Boston, each year for the last four years, and give them a $5,000 scholarship for college. Now, you think, when you're 10 years old, in the fifth grade and you get a college scholarship, the bragging rights, what that has meant, and it became real and they introduced the young scholars with the Red Sox baseball players and David Ortiz, Poppy Ortiz, was walking out with one of the young men and David said, sort of jokingly, "Oh, so one day you'll be playing with me with the Red Sox." And the kid says, "No, one day I'll own you." Now, he wasn't talking about actually owning Dave Ortiz, but he was talking about, "I'm going to be on the management side. I'm not going to be a ball player, I'm going to be a ball player owner." And that's the mentality that we know that we can do and we have to do, and I'm glad that Mr. Murphree mentioned it. One thing I want to mention is this: the organization ded 1 that I'm with is, the Charles Hamilton Houston Institute for Race and Justice is www.charleshamiltonhouston.org, and the most important thing he said was in his last remarks, that, "As we're facing the problem today, every year there are hundreds of thousands of Black men coming back into our communities with a criminal record. They can't go to – Madea
    [ph], she's not here. They can't go back home. They can't get a job. Boston is one of the first cities that are hiring people, despite having a criminal record, and my mission is to have a re-entry program. We have to deal with the fact these are still part of our family. They've left the village but they are coming back. And we have to be responsible for that and handle it in a very concrete way and I urge you to look at the website and see our re-entry program. And what I'm trying to do – and I'm glad this was so clear for Rev. Issac – here's what I think we have to do beyond all the other great suggestions. One of the things that we need to do is come up with a partnership, and I hope Dr. Cosby can help me do this: find 20 urban cities where we have strong clergy, where we have strong political leadership and where we have strong corporate responsibility, because the only way these folks are going to come back – they can do the laundry, they can cut the grass, wash dishes – there are thousands of jobs that should not prevent people from working, and they become what? They become taxpayers. They become wage earners. They become a productive part of our community. And I hope, as 1 kaisernetwork.org make ccuracy of written transcripts, but due to the nature of transcribing recorded s every effort to ensure the a we're talking about the pride of Black men, that we're talking about love and family and fatherhood and motherhood and community, because we've done it before. This forum is telling us that we know from The Washington Post series that we can do it, and we want to be able to come back and say we each stood beyond our comfort zone and did something to address the plight of the Black man, the Black family, the Black community, which makes it a better community, not just for Blacks, but for every citizen everywhere, in every single way, and I hope that you will agree with me, we're on a mission, a mission to save Black boys. And if we save Black boys, we'll save Black girls and Black families and the Black community, and the larger community. And I hope you'll join that mission and be a part of it. Thank you very much for being here. On behalf of The Washington Post, Harvard University, and the Kaiser Family Foundation, I thank all of you, and thank all of our wonderful panelists and Dr. Bill Cosby for joining us today.



    quote:

    FEMALE SPEAKER:
    I'd just like to give you the name of my organization, because I have to return there and work. We have programs, though, from infant centers to residential homes. And, so, there are a lot of counselors working with children, they work with early childhood development, as well as when they get up to their adult years. And, so, it's a good program and, again, I neglected to give you that, but it's a very fine organization. Associates ...
    DREW E. ALTMAN, PhD:
    You still haven't told us the name.
    FEMALE SPEAKER:
    I'm going to give it to you. Associates For Renewal in Education.
    DREW E. ALTMAN, PhD:
    And located in Washington, D.C.
    FEMALE SPEAKER:
    It's located in Washington, D.C.
    DREW E. ALTMAN, PhD:
    And the telephone number is? ded 1
    FEMALE SPEAKER:
    And the telephone number is 202 939-3551, or 483-9424. Please call them and let them assist you with – we have a total family support program.



    So here are a few things already trying to change the communities, that (against Michael Eric Dyson's analysis) Bill Cosby is bringing notice to.
    Last edited {1}
    quote:

    Cos & Effect: Bill Cosby Blasts 'Wash Post,' Downie Responds

    By E&P Staff

    Published: August 11, 2006 10:55 AM ET

    NEW YORK Comedian/actor/author Bill Cosby, in a lengthy letter, has complained about what he calls "disturbing" coverage by the The Washington Post of recent remarks that he made at Harvard University, and the aftermath. Leonard Downie, Jr., the paper's executive editor, has responded with a a defense.

    It all started with Cosby's July 18 remarks, in reference to the Post, "I don't like media who can't see or can't tell the truth." Now he asks,
    "Is The Washington Post abusing its considerable journalistic power? I think an investigation is warranted in order to find an answer."

    The exchange took place on the Romenesko site at www.poynter.org.
    Cosby wrote in a letter published there today:

    "On July 18th, I was a panel member at a forum sponsored by The Kaiser Family Foundation, Harvard University, and The Washington Post. During the discussion, I made reference to The Washington Post and stated: 'I don't like media who can't see or can't tell the truth.'

    "The next day, in a Washington Post article by Robert E. Pierre, that specific line was cited. Then, on July 21, the Post carried a column by Michael Eric Dyson which was entitled: The Injustice Bill Cosby Won't See.

    "Given the similarity between my statement about the media and the column heading, one could easily assume that this was a response to my remarks at the Kaiser/Post forum. It was not. Mr. Dyson made no reference to the forum at all. Instead, the column was merely a repackaging of Mr. Dyson's previous attacks on me and the only new idea Mr. Dyson advanced was his assertion that my series of 'callouts' have been 'rigged.'

    "By categorizing my 'callouts' as rigged and further stating that 'Cosby assembles community folk and experts who agree with his take on black poverty,' Mr. Dyson not only disparages me but also every city and every organization that has sponsored one of my 'callouts.'

    "The fact that The Washington Post chose to print Mr. Dyson's column is disturbing. How can a major newspaper allow one of its writers to level a serious accusation in the absence of any evidence? Has the Post dispensed with fact-checking? Furthermore, the timing of Mr. Dyson's piece -- just days after I criticized the Post -- seems rather suspect. Is this fairness in the media? I don't think so.

    "Further adding to the confusion of Mr. Dyson's charge is the fact my 'callouts' (which Mr. Dyson calls 'rigged') look very much like and are comprised of precisely the sort of panel embodied by the July 18th event co-sponsored by your own newspaper.

    "Following Mr. Dyson's article, the Post ran an Op Ed piece by Jabari Asim captioned: Invoking Responsibility. Mr. Asim wrote: 'There's that word again: responsibility. Cosby is absolutely right to point out that the very notion of it has dramatically faded in communities where it is needed most. But as long as Cosby, Kornegay, Orman, and other men continue to evoke it, reason for hope remains.' But Mr. Asim's words did little to undo the damage caused by Mr. Dyson's groundless labeling of my 'callouts' as 'rigged.'

    "In fact, The Post's coverage of their own forum seemed so overly preoccupied with my statements that there were glaring omissions regarding the substance of what transpired at the event. For example, among those who spoke was a gang member who, when talking about his role in gang related crime stated: 'None of you can stop nothing we want to do.' If that's the case, why is the Post even holding a forum or why is anyone even out there attempting to stem violent crime? How can the Post allow statements like these to be unreported or never addressed. And what about the two sons who spoke out, praising their fathers in every sentence, who went on to become High School A salutatorian and A valedictorians? Not a word about them was ever mentioned in any of the Post's coverage.

    "I believe that the series of events described above leads to an obvious question: Is The Washington Post abusing its considerable journalistic power? I think an investigation is warranted in order to find an answer."

    Leonard Downie's response at Romenesko:

    "The forum Mr. Cosby refers to [below] was a panel discussion in Washington analyzing the current status of young black men in America and exploring ways to assist them. The panel included young black men, including local high school valedictorians and former gang members-turned mentors from other cities, along with a number of noted experts in the field, plus Mr. Cosby, who made valuable contributions.

    "The forum was part of this newspaper's ongoing project on black men in America, which has produced a pioneering national survey (in collaboration with The Kaiser Family Foundation and Harvard University), a number of remarkable newspaper stories and accompanying video interviews, all of which can be found on our web site, washingtonpost.com. The reaction to the project from readers, particularly African-American readers, has been extensive and encouraging. We intend to draw on that reaction and the forum discussion to help shape future journalism.

    "The columns Mr. Cosby cites are part of the reaction to our project and to what Mr. Cosby said at the forum and elsewhere on this subject. The writers' opinions are their own."

    quote:
    Listen to our children


    By CLARENCE PAGE

    Published Monday, August 14, 2006




    WASHINGTON-Here's a scoop for you, America: Bill Cosby has a hard time getting his message out.

    "The media love to choose what they want to use," he said. "I can't go door-to-door to tell everyone what I really mean."

    But Dr. William H. Cosby Jr., Ph.D. Ed., did manage to get a hold of your humble scribe on my cell phone on a Friday afternoon during my vacation, scoring some rare cool points for me in the process by saying "hi" to my teenaged son.

    Cosby's like my 100-year-old grandmother; you never know what to expect from him. My heart pounded. Was he calling to praise? To complain? To sue?

    As it turned out, he was calling to complain, but not about me. He appreciated my recent column about the national debate he ignited with his now-famous speech on the 50th anniversary of the 1954 Brown v. Board of Education ruling.

    Cosby was calling out of frustration, he said, over the failures of other media to report what he has been trying to say. The Washington Post, which first reported the uproar over his 2004 speech, and other media have focused too much, in his view, on his sarcastic language. Too little attention has been given to the problems about which he was speaking- the crime, violence, school dropouts, out-of-wedlock births and other self-inflicted plagues among black youths left behind by civil rights reforms.

    "Our children are trying to tell us something (with their self-destructive behavior) and we're not listening," he said.

    I listened. He talked. I took notes. Among those who missed his point, the last straw for Cosby appears to have been an op-ed essay by Michael Eric Dyson, a University of Pennsylvania humanities professor and well-known Cosby critic, in the July 21 Post.

    Dyson lashed Cosby's "blame-the-poor tour" for ignoring major political and economic forces that continue to reinforce black poverty, like low wages, outsourcing, capital flight, downsizing and substandard schools.

    "None of these can be overcome by the good behavior of poor blacks," Dyson declared.

    But, of course, that statement is wrong, dangerously wrong in the disrespect it pays to the value of good behavior.
    As generations of successful black families can attest, good behavior won't solve all of your problems, but it beats drugs, crime, abuse, child neglect or other self-destructive behvior.

    Cosby offered two stellar examples, Jachin Leatherman and Wayne Nesbit, who defied the usual young black male stereotypes by graduating at the top of their class from Ballou High School, which has one of the District of Columbia's worst crime, poverty and dropout rates. Having survived distractions that included the shooting death of one of Nesbit's football teammates, the two athletes are headed for the College of the Holy Cross this fall.

    Some people think Cosby, who's given millions to scholarships and black colleges, has come down too harshly on black parents who shun personal responsibility, blame police first for incarcerations and let their children exalt sports and dialect over books and proper English.

    I suggested in an earlier column that Cosby might not have been harsh enough. For all of the burdens that we African-Americans have to bear from a legacy of historical and institutional racism, we also need to call each other to account from time to time for the damage we do to ourselves.

    For starters, we could use a lot more fathers like those of the Ballou scholars. Unfortunately, good dads and good moms don't grow on trees, as my own dad used to say about money. If we as a society do not do all that we can to help families in crisis and encourage parental responsibility, we will reap the ugly dividends later in our streets.

    That's Cosby's message. At least, he has what some critics call his "bullying pulpit" to help get his message out - and he's not afraid to use it.

    E-mail Clarence Page at cpage@tribune.com.
    quote:
    The Washington Post ran a clip and then they edited it, and then they showed us – somebody did – of what they wanted us to see these men saying, defining what is a Black man? Unless I missed it, I heard not one Black man say anything about being a father. I heard not one Black man say, "My responsibility..." – not, not – they just didn't say – I heard one fellow say, "I am this and I feel that I am an example of ...," but the family and the structure of it, not one edited version of these people with a camera on a drive-by. I'm looking to media – and I don't like media. I don't like people who see and can't tell the truth.



    Ooh!!! Blake! Cosby doesn't like you...


    quote:
    Cosby never criticized the people themselves who have positive opinions of Black Men in America, but its rediculous to believe that they couldn't find one guy to say, "I don't like the state of Black Men in America", And so WP was not doing its job as a newspaper to do a fair and balanced report.


    I mean, you were LYING YOUR AZZ OFF there.


    _________________________________________________________________________
    quote:
    Doesn't matter how you take it. People take Cosby's comments different from how you or certainly how others who favor Cosby's RHETORIC take them. Essentially, Cosby was lamblasting the WP for not writing the articles and making presentations the way Cosby wanted them to... the way Cosby would have the story portrayed.


    This is the point. No he wasn't. He comments about the quotes were about the fact that WP was holding this event, which started off with a video of many people about their definitions of Black Men and he criticized that.

    Then towards the end of the presentation, he had a discussion with a writer from the WP who was addressing some problems he had been addressing at the WP (99 Blacks killed and nobody at the WP cared, but when one White guy gets shot its a front page story). Cosby then voiced another criticizm of the post in regards to their "summer vacation". And it wasn't just a thing of "I don't like this", but he gave reasons why the summertime is one of the more active times to discuss the problems in the Black community.

    But I dont see how its H.N.I.C. syndrome if the guy is at a discussion forum trying to bring light to some of the programs and people WHO ARE HELPING OUR COMMUNITY, and discussions about what has worked and what else can be done. Does having a discussion make him HHIC?
    quote:
    Does having a discussion make him HHIC?


    What are you asking me that stupid question for?

    YOU CAN READ:
    Plus you justify all things HNIC about Cosby when you talk "new" programs in the sense of Cosby being "allowed" to do his own thing as opposed to getting behind existing programs, etc.


    You can engage too... It would be nice to see you do that for a change:

    quote:
    Posted July 21, 2006 05:44 AM

    [The origin of HNIC explained via KWELI'S post mentioning HNIC for the first time]

    My point here is that the WP series made their "OBSERVATIONS"... So I want to see the same leeway accorded to the WP whereby they can make "observations" without the type of "I didn't hear" this or that (translated: things I, Cosby, would say, etc.) comments Cosby made. That's the very kind of treatment people want when it comes to people criticizing Cosby for what he didn't say... So the favor should go both ways and apply to Cosby as well, IMO.


    I have nothing to explain. I've done it readily without having to be provoked - i.e. asked. That you failed to pay attention and continue to resist engaging... Well, that's on you.

    quote:
    Posted July 21, 2006 10:12 AM

    That's not the point. KWELI made an issue out of the criticism Cosby gets and wanted people to just let Cosby make his "observations" without people commenting on them. So, if that's the standard KWELI or others want applied to Cosby then that standard should apply to Cosby as well.

    Doesn't matter how you take it. People take Cosby's comments different from how you or certainly how others who favor Cosby's RHETORIC take them. Essentially, Cosby was lamblasting the WP for not writing the articles and making presentations the way Cosby wanted them to... the way Cosby would have the story portrayed.

    That's HNIC-isms at it's finest, according to KWELI's definition. Cosby tried to enforce a "MONOLITH". That's my point and it's clearly what he did because [of the] parts in the WP series don't mesh with Cosby's CHICKEN LITTLE-isms...
    I actually saw this panel on C-SPAN, Cosby looked like an idiot because he was whining and complaining while he was surrounded by REAL activists who were implementing programs that actually help our people. The moderator polked fun at Cosby's frequent interuptions a few times, walking over to calm him down with a pat on the arm and a sarcastic 'compliment' everytime he started barking out of turn... which happened quite frequently, he would interupt other panellinsts and talk out of turn. It qas quite sad. Cosby even seemed a little uncomfortable at points when other people on the panel actually got to talk about what some solutions are and how they are contributing to them, rather than just complaining. Unfortunatelly he thought complaining a little bit louder was the solution. Basically, the man looked like a fool.
    quote:
    Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
    I actually saw this panel on C-SPAN, Cosby looked like an idiot because he was whining and complaining while he was surrounded by REAL activists who were implementing programs that actually help our people. The moderator polked fun at Cosby's frequent interuptions a few times, walking over to calm him down with a pat on the arm and a sarcastic 'compliment' everytime he started barking out of turn... which happened quite frequently, he would interupt other panellinsts and talk out of turn. It qas quite sad. Cosby even seemed a little uncomfortable at points when other people on the panel actually got to talk about what some solutions are and how they are contributing to them, rather than just complaining. Unfortunatelly he thought complaining a little bit louder was the solution. Basically, the man looked like a fool.


    I saw this on C-Span as well, Oshun Auset, and Cosby did look a little crazy with those sunglasses on and throwing up the black power sign. My thinking was that he was too afraid to do it back in the 1960's and now because he's older he can get a pass. Also is this a sign that Mr. Cosby is going senile? I frankly thought that his behavior was odd, to say the least.
    quote:
    I actually saw this panel on C-SPAN, Cosby looked like an idiot because he was whining and complaining while he was surrounded by REAL activists who were implementing programs that actually help our people. The moderator polked fun at Cosby's frequent interuptions a few times, walking over to calm him down with a pat on the arm and a sarcastic 'compliment' everytime he started barking out of turn... which happened quite frequently, he would interupt other panellinsts and talk out of turn. It qas quite sad. Cosby even seemed a little uncomfortable at points when other people on the panel actually got to talk about what some solutions are and how they are contributing to them, rather than just complaining. Unfortunatelly he thought complaining a little bit louder was the solution. Basically, the man looked like a fool.

    ________________________________________________

    Also is this a sign that Mr. Cosby is going senile? I frankly thought that his behavior was odd, to say the least.



    That's been my impression the whole time ever since he started. The senility and all...

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