Asian Students Sue Harvard Over Admissions That Favor Black Students

Filed under: Featured,Headlines | 
 
Harvard university photo

Harvard university

 

AFRICANGLOBE – Harvard University’s affirmative action policies, which the school says are aimed at achieving diversity on the vaunted campus of Cambridge, discriminate against Asians who often can’t get in despite having higher test scores and grade-point averages than Black students who are accepted, according to a lawsuit filed Monday.

 

Edward Blum, who runs the Project on Fair Representation, which filed the suit on behalf of Asian students who were rejected by the school, said it is a clear case of favoring certain racial groups over others.

 

“Quotas and racial balancing are strictly against the law,” said Blum, whose group sued the University of Texas on behalf of a White applicant over its affirmative action admissions policies in a case that went to the U.S. Supreme Court last year.

 

In the Texas case, the high court reversed a lower court’s ruling in that case and remanded it with orders to apply the standard of strict scrutiny to the school’s race-conscious admissions policy. That decision is pending, but the Harvard case is different because it focuses on affirmative action’s negative impact on a minority group.

 

The lawsuit cites a 2009 study by Princeton sociologists that concluded that while the average Asian American applicant needed a much higher 1460 SAT score to be admitted, a White student with similar GPA and other qualifications only needed a score of 1320, while Blacks needed  1010 and Hispanics 1190.

 

The scores reflect the fact that Asians as a whole score higher than any other group on the SAT, so if a college wanted to avoid having a disproportionately high number of Asian enrollees, it might have to hold them to a higher standard.

 

The student plaintiffs remain anonymous, but the lawsuit notes that their qualifications were above average and yet they were rejected. The group is looking for additional student plaintiffs on their website, and has also filed suit against UNC Chapel Hill for alleged discriminating against Whites and Asians.

Harvard defended its admissions policy in an e-mailed statement.

 

“The College considers each applicant through an individualized, holistic review having the goal of creating a vibrant academic community that exposes students to a wide-range of differences: background, ideas, experiences, talents and aspirations,” wrote Robert Iuliano, Harvard’s general counsel.

 

He added that the policy is legal.

 

“The University’s admissions processes remain fully compliant with all legal requirements and are essential to the pedagogical objectives that underlie Harvard’s educational mission,” he wrote.

 

Others also defended the university’s diversity policy.

 

“Asian-American students benefit greatly from attending the racially and socio-economically diverse campuses that affirmative action helps create,” Julie Park, assistant professor of education at the University of Maryland and author of the book “When Diversity Drops,” said in a statement.

 

But others think the policy is harmful.

 

“The plaintiffs present considerable evidence suggesting that Harvard discriminates against Asian American applicants,” Richard Kahlenberg, a consultant for the plaintiffs who studies education policy at the Century Foundation, said.

 

One piece of evidence is the advice that the Princeton Review, a popular college guide, gives to Asian students applying to elite schools.

 

“The Princeton Review… explains: ‘Don’t attach a photograph to your application and don’t answer the optional question about your ethnic background… Write about something entirely unrelated to your ethnic background,’” the lawsuit notes.

 

Kahlenberg added that rather than directly targeting race, universities should give a leg up only to students who come from poorer backgrounds.

 

“Harvard has as many students in the freshman class from families in the top 1 percent by income nationally as from the bottom 50 percent,” he said. “It could produce considerable racial and ethnic diversity without resorting to racial preferences.”

 

As a legal matter, Harvard’s lawyer noted that a previous Supreme Court ruling from 1978 held Harvard’s policy as not only legal, but as a model for creating racial diversity without explicit quotas.

 

The plaintiffs hope that the Supreme Court has changed its mind over the decades.

 

“Harvard is not in compliance with the new “strict scrutiny” standards articulated in 2013 by the U.S. Supreme Court in Fisher v. University of Texas at Austin. The Fisher opinion unambiguously requires schools to implement race-neutral means to achieve student body diversity before turning to racial classifications and preferences,” the plaintiffs noted.

 

“The university is engaging in a campaign of invidious discrimination.”

 

By: Maxim Lott

 

Asians Vs. Blacks – THEBLACKCHANNEL.NET

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"I'm just trying to make a way out of no way, for my people" -Modejeska Monteith Simpkins

 

AFRICAN AMERICA IS AT WAR

THERE IS A RACE WAR ON AFRICAN AMERICA

THERE IS A RACE WAR ON AFRICAN AMERICANS

THERE IS A RACE WAR ON BLACK PEOPLE IN AMERICA

AMERICA'S RACISTS HAVE INFILTRATED AMERICAN POLICE FORCES TO WAGE A RACE WAR AGAINST BLACK PEOPLE IN AMERICA

THE BLACK RACE IS AT WAR

FIRST WORLD WAR:  THE APPROXIMATELY 6,000 YEAR WORLD WAR ON AFRICA AND THE BLACK RACE

Original Post
Originally Posted by sunnubian:

Asian Students Sue Harvard Over Admissions That Favor Black Students

Filed under: Featured,Headlines | 
 
Harvard university photo

Harvard university

 

AFRICANGLOBE – Harvard University’s affirmative action policies, which the school says are aimed at achieving diversity on the vaunted campus of Cambridge, discriminate against Asians who often can’t get in despite having higher test scores and grade-point averages than Black students who are accepted, according to a lawsuit filed Monday.

 

Edward Blum, who runs the Project on Fair Representation, which filed the suit on behalf of Asian students who were rejected by the school, said it is a clear case of favoring certain racial groups over others.

 

“Quotas and racial balancing are strictly against the law,” said Blum, whose group sued the University of Texas on behalf of a White applicant over its affirmative action admissions policies in a case that went to the U.S. Supreme Court last year.

 

In the Texas case, the high court reversed a lower court’s ruling in that case and remanded it with orders to apply the standard of strict scrutiny to the school’s race-conscious admissions policy. That decision is pending, but the Harvard case is different because it focuses on affirmative action’s negative impact on a minority group.

 

The lawsuit cites a 2009 study by Princeton sociologists that concluded that while the average Asian American applicant needed a much higher 1460 SAT score to be admitted, a White student with similar GPA and other qualifications only needed a score of 1320, while Blacks needed  1010 and Hispanics 1190.

 

The scores reflect the fact that Asians as a whole score higher than any other group on the SAT, so if a college wanted to avoid having a disproportionately high number of Asian enrollees, it might have to hold them to a higher standard.

 

The student plaintiffs remain anonymous, but the lawsuit notes that their qualifications were above average and yet they were rejected. The group is looking for additional student plaintiffs on their website, and has also filed suit against UNC Chapel Hill for alleged discriminating against Whites and Asians.

Harvard defended its admissions policy in an e-mailed statement.

 

“The College considers each applicant through an individualized, holistic review having the goal of creating a vibrant academic community that exposes students to a wide-range of differences: background, ideas, experiences, talents and aspirations,” wrote Robert Iuliano, Harvard’s general counsel.

 

He added that the policy is legal.

 

“The University’s admissions processes remain fully compliant with all legal requirements and are essential to the pedagogical objectives that underlie Harvard’s educational mission,” he wrote.

 

Others also defended the university’s diversity policy.

 

“Asian-American students benefit greatly from attending the racially and socio-economically diverse campuses that affirmative action helps create,” Julie Park, assistant professor of education at the University of Maryland and author of the book “When Diversity Drops,” said in a statement.

 

But others think the policy is harmful.

 

“The plaintiffs present considerable evidence suggesting that Harvard discriminates against Asian American applicants,” Richard Kahlenberg, a consultant for the plaintiffs who studies education policy at the Century Foundation, said.

 

One piece of evidence is the advice that the Princeton Review, a popular college guide, gives to Asian students applying to elite schools.

 

“The Princeton Review… explains: ‘Don’t attach a photograph to your application and don’t answer the optional question about your ethnic background… Write about something entirely unrelated to your ethnic background,’” the lawsuit notes.

 

Kahlenberg added that rather than directly targeting race, universities should give a leg up only to students who come from poorer backgrounds.

 

“Harvard has as many students in the freshman class from families in the top 1 percent by income nationally as from the bottom 50 percent,” he said. “It could produce considerable racial and ethnic diversity without resorting to racial preferences.”

 

As a legal matter, Harvard’s lawyer noted that a previous Supreme Court ruling from 1978 held Harvard’s policy as not only legal, but as a model for creating racial diversity without explicit quotas.

 

The plaintiffs hope that the Supreme Court has changed its mind over the decades.

 

“Harvard is not in compliance with the new “strict scrutiny” standards articulated in 2013 by the U.S. Supreme Court in Fisher v. University of Texas at Austin. The Fisher opinion unambiguously requires schools to implement race-neutral means to achieve student body diversity before turning to racial classifications and preferences,” the plaintiffs noted.

 

“The university is engaging in a campaign of invidious discrimination.”

 

By: Maxim Lott

 

Asians Vs. Blacks – THEBLACKCHANNEL.NET

 

 

 

Why don't they sue white students who get in with lower standards who are admitted because of legacy? Asians voted strong Republican 2014. WTF?

Originally Posted by sunnubian:
Originally Posted by Momentum:
 

Why don't they sue white students who get in with lower standards who are admitted because of legacy? Asians voted strong Republican 2014. WTF?

 

It's called, "White-boot licking".

I think this is an Asian thing. This is the Pacific century and they want to rule. I was by the University in Berkeley, CA last year and  saw the vast majority of students were all Asians. The world is changing, folks. It’s a global game now.

Originally Posted by sunnubian:
Originally Posted by Momentum:
 

Why don't they sue white students who get in with lower standards who are admitted because of legacy? Asians voted strong Republican 2014. WTF?

 

It's called, "White-boot licking".

 

No it's not, its called protecting your interests. I actually posted about this a while ago and said it was coming months ago. Asians don't want Affirmative Action because it hurts them. I posted this article. 

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/a...irmative-action.html

 

Asian students are heavily discriminated against in regards to admissions.

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/a...irmative-action.html

To be sure, emergent Asian-American opposition towards ethnicity-based affirmative action is grounded in personal experience, and is a long time coming. Already, back in 2005, a Princeton University study reported Asian-Americans, as opposed to whites, drew the short straw when it came to racial preferences. According to the study, if race conscious admissions were ended, “Asian students would fill nearly four out of every five places in the admitted class not taken by African-American and Hispanic students.”  

 

 

Asian students are at the bottom when it comes to admissions because they are academically superior to Black and White Students.

 

Asians don't need White people. They are wealthier than they are, more educated than they are, Asians can tell Whites to kiss their ass. Actually it's the other way around, because America is so damn dumb, that Whites need Asians to come from all over the world to do high skilled chump jobs, like being computer programming. That's why they are trying to fix the visa thing. Asians are an economic necessity at this point. 

 

Asians were FOR Affirmative Action until they reached a level when they were being fucked over because they were vastly superior students and colleges weren't accepting them at the rates they SHOULD. 

 

Asians are going after the people that Affirmative Action was designed to benefit in order to leverage their position with American conservative interests in removing Affirmative Action.

 

 

Even Asian Democrats don't want Affirmative Action and they are going against Latino Democrats. Point is, USA is a battleground for race/ethnic wars. 

 http://www.video.theblaze.com/...n-could-return-to-ca

 

 

But, lets make this clear. Asians remove Affirmative Action, they would dominate the USA's top colleges with their population growth and their academic scores.

They already do in California.

 

This isn't White Bootlicking, this is strictly about protecting ethnic interests. Asians were never on our side anyway, they are for themselves, as we should be. 

 

Asians want their children to go to the top colleges in the USA and don't want to get tossed aside for any other group and I don't blame them. 

 

Originally Posted by GoodMan:
Originally Posted by sunnubian:
Originally Posted by Momentum:
 

Why don't they sue white students who get in with lower standards who are admitted because of legacy? Asians voted strong Republican 2014. WTF?

 

It's called, "White-boot licking".

 

No it's not, its called protecting your interests. I actually posted about this a while ago and said it was coming months ago. Asians don't want Affirmative Action because it hurts them. I posted this article. 

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/a...irmative-action.html

 

Asian students are heavily discriminated against in regards to admissions.

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/a...irmative-action.html

To be sure, emergent Asian-American opposition towards ethnicity-based affirmative action is grounded in personal experience, and is a long time coming. Already, back in 2005, a Princeton University study reported Asian-Americans, as opposed to whites, drew the short straw when it came to racial preferences. According to the study, if race conscious admissions were ended, “Asian students would fill nearly four out of every five places in the admitted class not taken by African-American and Hispanic students.”  

 

 

Asian students are at the bottom when it comes to admissions because they are academically superior to Black and White Students.

 

Asians don't need White people. They are wealthier than they are, more educated than they are, Asians can tell Whites to kiss their ass. Actually it's the other way around, because America is so damn dumb, that Whites need Asians to come from all over the world to do high skilled chump jobs, like being computer programming. That's why they are trying to fix the visa thing. Asians are an economic necessity at this point. 

 

Asians were FOR Affirmative Action until they reached a level when they were being fucked over because they were vastly superior students and colleges weren't accepting them at the rates they SHOULD. 

 

Asians are going after the people that Affirmative Action was designed to benefit in order to leverage their position with American conservative interests in removing Affirmative Action.

 

 

Even Asian Democrats don't want Affirmative Action and they are going against Latino Democrats. Point is, USA is a battleground for race/ethnic wars

 http://www.video.theblaze.com/...n-could-return-to-ca

 

 

But, lets make this clear. Asians remove Affirmative Action, they would dominate the USA's top colleges with their population growth and their academic scores.

They already do in California.

 

This isn't White Bootlicking, this is strictly about protecting ethnic interests. Asians were never on our side anyway, they are for themselves, as we should be. 

 

Asians want their children to go to the top colleges in the USA and don't want to get tossed aside for any other group and I don't blame them. 

 

Brah you said it! Not just them East Indians too! People in general better get their priorities straight. Its only going to become more competitive with less jobs in the pool. Unless we the people can turn this oligarchy around. But it is going to be very difficult.

 

I encourage anyone to listen to this interview, its one of the best informative interviews about the construct of our society, social class and government, what the oligarchy is trying and is doing and probably how it will be. Chris Hedges interviews political philosopher Sheldon Wolin, who says democracy requires continuous opposition and vigilance by the citizenry

Hedges & Wolin: Can Capitalism and Democracy Coexist? (1/8)

 

 

This old dude's hard to look at, through no fault of his own.  With my distorted thinking he looks exactly like a talking skull.  White faces scare me sometimes, truthfully, so I'll have to refrain. Won't be able to get through #1 forget all the way to #8. Not in any way being facetious, just stating my truth. Apologies to whomever is hurt.

  This suit has no basis.  Cuz first....there is a REASON why there is a policy to admit black people in colleges.....duh uh.   Jim Crow, segregation of black people for generations.  Now what the FOCK have Asian folks done for anybody?  It is not about SCORES.  How about going back to your HOMELAND and fight for the rights there?  Why come here and talk shyte about being unfair when Asians were no where in SIGHT during the civil rights movement MAKING EQUALITY happen.  At first, it wasn't for ANYBODY ELSE...just for black folks[who were suffering the angst of slavery racism]...then civil rights  evolved into it being for ALL minorities.  But these are supposed to be SMART Asians....how could they don't know that?    And if they do know, why aren't they empathetic to the history and integrity of the process of what we did?  Cuz they don't care!!! They deliberately close a blind eye to our struggle....cuz they feel they are BETTER than us.  Cuz why?  They have white skin and we have black.  

 

But this is just like anything else.  When we were fighting for it...everybody else were hiding in their closet shaking in their boots....cuz massa dumped on Asians too in the cold war. Memba the concentration camps?  Yet I never heard about Asians walking to Selma, going to Mississippi to register blacks or get their own people to register to vote..nor did I see them demonstrate for better schools/books...to be treated like EQUAL CITIZENS.  Where the fock were they?  And so now these self-entitled brats whose parents have taught THEM wrongly that somehow somewhere they are actually BETTER than black people WHO SET THE STAGE for them to get an education in this country......are suing for what  initially had NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM?   They will LOSE.  They will LOSE.  

 

Cuz why?  Their families didn't do a DAMN thang to make this happen....it was US...and just like everybody else who immigrated to this country[and benefited from our pain, sweat and death]....they wanna now take  ownership to everything we put in place.... by simply and arrogantly indicating that they are much smarter than us..having higher scores than us.their proof that they deserve a shoe in.  Well if your smartness is all that why isn't it giving the rights you're attempting to take from us to the people in your country?.  Why is your country's police seen terrorizing Asian students protesting there?  Why is that?  And most importantly....why can't you go to YOUR COUNTRY and demand the same as you are now demanding here?    

 

It is no secret your country don't give a fock about its people.  Hey, they still DON'T respect WOMEN .So how in the fock do you think you can POSSIBLY have the right to push  the very people who got massa to comply... out of the picture?   When it is an absolute FACT your people haven't  PAID any dues in this country.  Cuz really...what is yall's contribution for equality?    Thought so.  

 

Just recently women in your country[Japan or China] have JUST gotten a tad bit of rights and opportunity.  In your country men still rule.  So don't slither your ass in court thinking you have a right to have something your people  DIDN'T fight for?  You need to really shut the fock up and be GRATEFUL you're in a country that recognizes your ability and has given you freedom to live the life you want.  But!  

Originally Posted by Norland:

This old dude's hard to look at, through no fault of his own.  With my distorted thinking he looks exactly like a talking skull.  White faces scare me sometimes, truthfully, so I'll have to refrain. Won't be able to get through #1 forget all the way to #8. Not in any way being facetious, just stating my truth. Apologies to whomever is hurt.

 I listened twice, had it playing while doing other stuff, really interesting, well I was impressed anyway. 

Please, these people and their tiger mothers are going crazy and committing suicides on the daily. These are the mofos that kill themselves after flunking a test or not getting into a school. Why are there not to many male Asian physicians? The phukkers crack up under stress. This does not seem superior to . Me.
Originally Posted by GoodMan:
 

 

"No it's not, its called protecting your interests. I actually posted about this a while ago and said it was coming months ago. Asians don't want Affirmative Action because it hurts them. I posted this article. "

 

 

Oh, yes it is "White-boot licking", and that's really all it is.  'Protecting' what 'interests'?  Asians are less than 3% of the population in America; what threat do or could African Americans possibly pose to what 'interests' of Asians in America?  

 

Affirmative Action does not "hurt" Asians, hell, really, Affirmative Action helped Asians, just like it did ALL minorities and White women over the past few decades in America.  Asians, just like White women, benefited immensely by Affirmative Action, which was merely a 'check and balance' mechanism by which Anti-Discrimination Laws could be implemented.  If it didn't, then, where were all their asses before "Affirmative Action"/Anti-Discrimination Laws that African Americans fought and died on the front lines of the Civil Rights Movement in this country to bring about?  I'll tell you where they were, lying low in the shadows and woodwork of America being as quiet as possible as to not bring any attention to themselves, right up to after Black Americans risked EVERYTHING to bring about change in this country, the very change that even allowed 'Asians', just like ANY other minority in America, to go to whatever schools they chose, live where ever they wanted, and live, unmolested, tortured and Lynched in any part of the country they chose.  

 

It was Black people, African Americans that bore the brunt of the Civil Right Movement in America; it was the Blood, Sweat, and Tears of Black people, African Americans' that built the BRIDGE that allowed ALL minorities, including Asians, to cross over to 'equality', non-discrimination and relative safety in America no matter where they lived, worked, went to school, and in public places and accommodations, ESPECIALLY in the South.  

 

Now that Asians have been able to utilize the 'BRIDGE' built with the Blood, Sweat and Tears of Black people, African Americans, they choose to use it as a means to join up with our enemies(America's Racists) to stab the Black race/African Americans in the back.  That's all this is, and nothing more, period.

 

All it will take is, for America to flood this country with Europeans, just like they did before, and all these 'pacts'/'treaties' other minorities have made with America's racists will be 'honored' the same way pacts and treaties  with the Native Americans were 'honored', after this country had been flooded with Whites just like before.  

 

In the end, when it's really all said and done, all the ambushing of Black people in America other minorities are doing for a 'pat-on-the-head' by racist Whites in this country now, is going to come back to bite them all in the ass. Of course, that won't happen overnight, but mark my word, it's going to happen.

 

Originally Posted by NSpirit:
Please, these people and their tiger mothers are going crazy and committing suicides on the daily. These are the mofos that kill themselves after flunking a test or not getting into a school. Why are there not to many male Asian physicians? The phukkers crack up under stress. This does not seem superior to . Me.

I did not know that was happening. I read some of the cruel things tiger mom's do to their kids but I did not know there is a string of suicides because of it. 

Well looky looky....it seems the group that filed this suit does not represent an Asian American majority.  The group is using Asians to eliminate affirmative action and the Asians know it! Or at least some of them.

http://news.yahoo.com/asian-am...dGlkA1RBVVMwODZfMQ--
Yahoo News

Asian American Activists Are Refusing to Join the Fight Against Affirmative Action
By Joseph Williams | Takepart.com
13 hours ago
Takepart.com

It’s been called the “bamboo ceiling”—the perception that highly qualified Asian American high school students face an unspoken quota at the nation’s elite universities. College admissions directors, the argument goes, often pass over Asian American kids for less-qualified African American and Latino students for the sake of manufactured campus diversity.

Now an advocacy group, Students for Fair Admissions, says it wants to expose, then smash, the bamboo ceiling for good. This week the organization sued Harvard University and the University of North Carolina–Chapel Hill, alleging that the schools discriminate against Asian American students and that political correctness is to blame.

The suit, however, is getting strong pushback from Asian American student and civil rights organizations, who suspect that Students for Fair Admissions—and its parent organization, Project for Fair Representation, which is run by activist Edward Blum—are more interested in ending affirmative action than making sure Asian American students get equal treatment in college admissions. The lawsuit inspired a Twitter hashtag, #IAmNotYourWedge, and a petition condemning the suit as a thinly veiled conservative ploy.

“Conservatives desperate to shore up a shrinking, aging, mostly white base are hoping to sink their hooks into anxious Asian American parents who, like all parents, just want the best opportunities for their kids,” Cynthia Liu, education advocate and founder of the K-12 News Network, said in an email interview. “This lawsuit plays on fears, falsehoods, and scarcity-driven and blinkered thinking.”

ReAppropriate, an Asian American culture and social justice blog, says Blum’s “overt co-optation of the Asian American community” is “galling.”

According to ReAppropriate, Blum “purports to speak for the Asian American community in the filing of his lawsuit. He purports to stand in defense of the Asian American community against institutional racism from elite universities. Blum forgets that a majority of Asian Americans simply do not stand” with him.

The Students for Fair Admissions lawsuit, filed earlier this week, accuses Harvard and the University of North Carolina of admitting substandard minority applicants because of their race. In a statement on its website, the Project for Fair Representation argues that publicly available data shows that the two schools are in clear violation of a 2013 Supreme Court ruling that says college admissions directors can only use “race-neutral” standards when deciding who gets in.

The Project for Fair Representation’s statement goes further, suggesting that practices at Harvard and the University of North Carolina are just the tip of the iceberg.

“The discrimination against Asian-Americans…[is] emblematic of the behavior of the vast majority of competitive colleges throughout the country,” reads the statement.

Blum, who is the director of the Project for Fair Representation, represented Abigail Fisher, a white student, in her successful anti–affirmative action lawsuit against the University of Texas. He has placed other schools across the country on notice by stating that the Harvard and UNC suits “are the first of what are expected to be several similar challenges to other competitive colleges that continue to unconstitutionally use racial preferences in admission decisions.”

Even though the number of qualified Asian American students applying to Harvard is up, said Blum, “public data shows that Harvard has purposefully limited the percentage of Asian-American freshman it admits. In fact, the number of Asian-Americans Harvard admits today is lower than it was 20 years ago.”

Though Blum argues that the Asian American community is being treated unfairly, however, a study by the Inter-university Consortium for Political and Social Research shows that more than 63 percent of Asian Americans support affirmative action, while less than 40 percent support ending it, according to Diverse Magazine. And several civil rights groups, including the Asian American Legal Foundation, filed briefs supporting affirmative action in the Fisher case.

Nevertheless, there is some perception of bias against Asian American students in college admissions: In 2012, according to a report by the American Psychological Association, “the National Association for College Admission Counseling documented that Asian students are convinced not to identify their race/ethnicity box on applications to avoid potential biases in admission to the nation’s top colleges.”

The report also details how Asian American students are often held hostage to the "model minority" stereotype, requiring, on average, higher test scores and better grades than blacks, whites, and Latinos in order to win college admission.

“The term [model minority] implies that all Asians are hard working, financially well off, high-achievers,” often neglecting their diversity, according to the report. “This image…also attempts to silence Asians regarding their difficulties and discrimination experiences. The truth is most Asians are immigrants who face language struggles” while others, like Vietnames, Hmong, and Laotians, tend to be poorer and have high dropout rates.

In its blog post about the lawsuit, ReAppropriate alleges that Blum and the Project for Fair Representation took it upon themselves to file the lawsuit and recruited “just the right Asian” student to help humanize it. The post includes screen shots of online ads featuring an Asian student with the caption, “Were you denied admission to the University of North Carolina? It may be because you’re the wrong race.” The ads are accompanied by a form for a rejected student to fill out.

“The [Students for Fair Admissions] lawsuits come after over a year of Edward Blum canvassing for ‘just the right Asian’: rejected applicants to Harvard, Univeristy of North Carolina–Chapel Hill (UNC) and University of Wisconsin–Madison,” wrote ReAppropriate. “Blum was looking for Asian Americans willing to become the new Abigail Fisher: someone willing to be exploited as the next public face of the affirmative action debate.”

ReAppropriate notes that Blum hasn’t named a student as a plaintiff in the lawsuit, and doesn’t offer concrete evidence of a quota at Harvard “or that it was the reason for the unnamed applicant’s rejection from the school.”

At best, “the suit is largely conjecture, and based on the bizarre presumption that high standardized test scores entitles an applicant to admission to an elite university.”

Still, Blum’s case against the University of Texas reached the Supreme Court, where a conservative majority has consistently ruled against race-based college admissions. However, according to Liu, Blum’s Asian American discrimination lawsuit misses two broader points: The Asian-Pacific Islander community isn’t monolithic, and college should be for everyone.

“Let’s widen our views to have admissions officers recognize the vast diversity within the APA community (which also includes poverty and low educational attainment) and also expand our perspectives in the Asian Pacific American community so that every state university is fully funded,  higher ed is affordable, and there are sufficient campuses in public higher ed so every student who wants to can attend,” said Liu

• Op-Ed: If You Think School Segregation Is Over, Think Again

Original article from Takepart.com
Originally Posted by GoodMan:
Originally Posted by sunnubian:
Originally Posted by Momentum:
 

Why don't they sue white students who get in with lower standards who are admitted because of legacy? Asians voted strong Republican 2014. WTF?

 

It's called, "White-boot licking".

 

No it's not, its called protecting your interests. I actually posted about this a while ago and said it was coming months ago. Asians don't want Affirmative Action because it hurts them. I posted this article. 

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/a...irmative-action.html

 

Asian students are heavily discriminated against in regards to admissions.

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/a...irmative-action.html

To be sure, emergent Asian-American opposition towards ethnicity-based affirmative action is grounded in personal experience, and is a long time coming. Already, back in 2005, a Princeton University study reported Asian-Americans, as opposed to whites, drew the short straw when it came to racial preferences. According to the study, if race conscious admissions were ended, “Asian students would fill nearly four out of every five places in the admitted class not taken by African-American and Hispanic students.”  

 

 

Asian students are at the bottom when it comes to admissions because they are academically superior to Black and White Students.

 

Asians don't need White people. They are wealthier than they are, more educated than they are, Asians can tell Whites to kiss their ass. Actually it's the other way around, because America is so damn dumb, that Whites need Asians to come from all over the world to do high skilled chump jobs, like being computer programming. That's why they are trying to fix the visa thing. Asians are an economic necessity at this point. 

 

Asians were FOR Affirmative Action until they reached a level when they were being fucked over because they were vastly superior students and colleges weren't accepting them at the rates they SHOULD. 

 

Asians are going after the people that Affirmative Action was designed to benefit in order to leverage their position with American conservative interests in removing Affirmative Action.

 

 

Even Asian Democrats don't want Affirmative Action and they are going against Latino Democrats. Point is, USA is a battleground for race/ethnic wars. 

 http://www.video.theblaze.com/...n-could-return-to-ca

 

 

But, lets make this clear. Asians remove Affirmative Action, they would dominate the USA's top colleges with their population growth and their academic scores.

They already do in California.

 

This isn't White Bootlicking, this is strictly about protecting ethnic interests. Asians were never on our side anyway, they are for themselves, as we should be. 

 

Asians want their children to go to the top colleges in the USA and don't want to get tossed aside for any other group and I don't blame them. 

 

Fully agree. We needs to study tactics used by every group to get ahead. 

Originally Posted by Momentum:
 

Brah you said it! Not just them East Indians too! People in general better get their priorities straight. Its only going to become more competitive with less jobs in the pool. Unless we the people can turn this oligarchy around. But it is going to be very difficult.

 

I encourage anyone to listen to this interview, its one of the best informative interviews about the construct of our society, social class and government, what the oligarchy is trying and is doing and probably how it will be. Chris Hedges interviews political philosopher Sheldon Wolin, who says democracy requires continuous opposition and vigilance by the citizenry

Hedges & Wolin: Can Capitalism and Democracy Coexist? (1/8)

 

 

 

I live in a Black city right, the school I go to, is one of the most "diverse schools" due to "international students"

 

All of them are Asian, most  of them are in computer science degree program or some other science and even most of the teachers there are Asian. 

 

They dominate that degree program. 

Originally Posted by NSpirit:
Well looky looky....it seems the group that filed this suit does not represent an Asian American majority.  The group is using Asians to eliminate affirmative action and the Asians know it! Or at least some of them.
I saw that UNC advertisement, but I didn't know it was the same group.
 
If Asians are going against this campaign, either:
 
They value some solidarity with Latinos and African Americans (which would be weird since we are worlds apart)
 
 
They don't wanna be ruled over by White people and used as pawn (makes sense)
 
There's a generational difference (meaning, young Asian Americans are against this shit)
 
----
 
It's true that there is poorer Asian ethnics, not every Asian ethnic group is well off. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Originally Posted by NSpirit:

 

NSpirit, Those articles are insightful on Asian culture and the abuse many of their children bear. Of course not all Asians or even the majority of them treat their children that way but obviously it is frequently practiced and is an issue in their community.

 

Children for the most part resilient but many are not and end up killing themselves or at least become mentally damaged or continue to practice the tradition because it worked out for them but perhaps not for their own children. The fact is you can get great or better performance with constructive and more meaningful, nurturing methods.

 

  And most importantly...not every Asian ethnic group is SMART.  Not every Asian student is SMART.  That's the misconception.  They are humans just like us....with some of us gifted in science or math or art or etc.  The difference?  Their families push them into science [including and especially computer science] and math.  Doesn't mean that they excel in  it.  I remember in a study group in college with Asian students....me thinking they are smart will help the group excel.  Not!  A couple of ;em were asking ME how I did a problem.    And I am NOT a math problem.  So,

 

Additionally, it is also true some Asian struggle with the language barrier and sometimes the system of math is taught differently in their country-for example the metric system.  Many Asians are familiar with its use in math while Americans struggle with that because it is not thoroughly used in our math system in day to day living.  The measurement components we used to are feet, inches, yards. ounces, etc as we have difficulty with the metric system.

 

So I think that [since after reading Nspirit's article it is making sense that] this suit may be  a ploy to eliminate Affirmative Action[in a cowardly sneaky fashion]...and as usual by using a minority group to do it.  But!   

Originally Posted by GoodMan:
Originally Posted by Momentum:
 

Brah you said it! Not just them East Indians too! People in general better get their priorities straight. Its only going to become more competitive with less jobs in the pool. Unless we the people can turn this oligarchy around. But it is going to be very difficult.

 

I encourage anyone to listen to this interview, its one of the best informative interviews about the construct of our society, social class and government, what the oligarchy is trying and is doing and probably how it will be. Chris Hedges interviews political philosopher Sheldon Wolin, who says democracy requires continuous opposition and vigilance by the citizenry

Hedges & Wolin: Can Capitalism and Democracy Coexist? (1/8)

   

I live in a Black city right, the school I go to, is one of the most "diverse schools" due to "international students"

 

All of them are Asian, most  of them are in computer science degree program or some other science and even most of the teachers there are Asian. 

 

They dominate that degree program. 

Yeah, they dominate engineering indeed but in the real world on the job I can say African Americans kick ass! In the work place we tend to have better ideas more creative and we mind our own business and get the work done. Let me tell you we put in more hours because when we get the opportunity to have a good paying career we know we are fortunate no matter what ethnic background and we work with much more resiliency. Asians tend to breakdown under pressure, biytch and complain, they often work with frowns on their faces it seems they have pressure on them when its not necessary, a black person under the same work environment just keeps working with a much better attitude. That is anecdotal but that is what I have experienced.   

 

But let me add this, when things get crazy and unfair we are also the first ones to speak up and say what everyone is thinking. 

I decided to go out of my way to the source.

 

Asian American news outlets are hard to find, but I found a good one, and the are discussing Affirmative Action.

 

And for all intents and purposes they are in favor of removing it.

 

http://www.hyphenmagazine.com/...et/hard-part-getting

By most measures, Harrison Kim is a successful high school student. Not only does he have stellar grades, the 18-year-old senior from Sammamish, WA, also plays guitar in a high school rock band and regularly performs volunteer work. Now, he faces one of the most daunting rites of passage into young adulthood: getting into a college of his dreams.

Kim’s application contains several characteristics that will catch the eye of admissions officers: 3.81 GPA, six AP classes, a score of 2270 out of 2400 on the SAT, recent recipient of an Eagle Scout badge, the highest Boy Scout honor. (To earn the badge, he played a central role in revitalizing a local stormwater retention pond. Kim, along with a team of volunteers he assembled, spent two sweaty summer weeks pulling shrubs and trees that had rendered the pond completely useless.) 

 

But one attribute is out of his control. Kim is Korean American. Coupled with the fact that he wants to matriculate to such prestigious universities as Columbia, Harvard, Yale and Stanford, Kim fits the profile of a student who could very well be disadvantaged by the admissions process. 

 

The existence of obstacles to Asian Americans gaining admission to elite universities stems from the perception that, as a group, they have performed relatively well in higher education. From 1976 to 2007, the percentage of Asian American college students increased from 1.8 to 6.7 percent, according to the US Department of Education. Most Ivy League schools now have undergraduate Asian American student populations between 15 and 20 percent; Caltech and the University of California, Berkeley, regularly top 40 percent. Considering that Asian Americans make up only 4.5 percent of the US population, many elite universities see an overrepresented pool of Asian American applicants when they pick their freshman class.

 

As the newest generation of Asian Americans like Kim seek college admission, the landscape they face shifts continuously. Some schools have historically held Asian Americans to a higher standard, whereas others have opened their doors and held out enticing offers to attract more Asian American applicants. Then there’s the University of California, whose new rules could sway its admissions toward more inclusion of historically underrepresented Asian ethnic groups — at the expense of some Asian American groups that have traditionally been admitted in high numbers. 

 

Caught in the middle are students focusing on the balancing act of matching their own attributes and career interests with the academic programs and student preferences of colleges. But Asian Americans also deal with the added challenges of meeting higher academic standards, disproportionately applying to the most competitive majors, and picking a school that welcomes them and values diversity.

Often, several factors limit admissions for Asian Americans at elite universities, making it harder for seemingly qualified applicants to get in. Dan Golden, the author of The Price of Admission, which documents the advantages given to white applicants at elite universities, believes subtle quotas for Asian Americans come from three primary factors.

 

First, many seats at these schools are simply not available for Asian Americans because few are children of large donors, are athletes or are relatives of alumni, otherwise known as legacies. These groups receive preference in the admissions process and typically comprise about one-third of an entering class. Moreover, Asian Americans are not typically considered for affirmative action, unless the applicant hails from traditionally underrepresented groups, such as Southeast Asians. 

 

“For most elite schools, close to half the seats on average go to somebody with an admissions preference,” Golden said. This means that most Asian Americans, as well as working- and middle-class whites, compete on only their merit for about half the seats available in any freshman class.

,

 

Golden believes admissions officials consciously limit the number of Asian Americans for fear that they would become too large a part of the student body. Harvard, for example, has kept their Asian American enrollment under 20 percent over the last decade. “Why don’t they just cross 20 percent?” Golden said. “If it was based purely on merit, that mark would be crossed easily.” Universities flatly deny allegations of capping Asian American enrollment, yet they refuse to release information on what their applicant pool looks like.

 

Finally, Golden thinks admissions officers sometimes stereotype applicants. In his book, he points to a 1990 civil rights inquiry into discrimination against Asian Americans at Harvard. From 1979 to 1988, Harvard accepted Asian Americans at a rate of 13.2 percent, compared with 17.4 percent for whites. During the inquiry, federal investigators found that Asian Americans had to score higher than white applicants on exams to get in and were consistently ranked lower than white applicants for “personal qualities.”

 

In addition, Asian American applications consistently had more subjective comments made on them, such as being “quiet/shy,” “science/math-oriented” and “hard workers.” Other comments noted that “scores and application seem so typical of other Asian applications I’ve read: extraordinarily gifted in math with the opposite extreme in English.” In another example, one admissions staffer wrote: “He’s quiet and, of course, wants to be a doctor.” (Harvard was eventually cleared of the charges. The university maintained that preferences for athletes and legacies — predominantly white applicants — are not racially discriminatory.) 

 

While writing his book, Golden spoke with many Asian American applicants who were denied admission to elite universities despite their stellar credentials. “A perception exists that Asians are focused only on math and science and do not contribute to class discussions,” he said. “In my interviews, I haven’t found that to be true at all. My interviewees all had a wide range of interests and were very qualified individuals.” In his research, he found applicants with incredibly high SAT scores and grades, and who were also accomplished musicians, athletes, community service volunteers and authors; all were rejected from Ivy League schools. “The attitude of admissions is a monolithic view of Asian culture.”

 

In 2009, Princeton sociologist Thomas Espenshade offered quantitative evidence that Asian Americans are disadvantaged in the elite university applications process. He estimated that Asian Americans, on average, must score 140 more SAT points than white applicants in order to be admitted to the eight elite universities in his sample. (The University of California was not included.) 

But there is little pressure on these universities to change their admissions biases. Mitchell Chang, a University of California, Los Angeles, professor who does research on Asian Americans in higher education, cannot think of an instance of collective legal or political action from the Asian American community on this issue in the last three decades. Instead, parents have simply resorted to putting more academic pressure on their kids.

 

“Parents on the ground are really concerned, and they think the strategy is to develop better applications,” Chang said. “They are pushing their kids to get better grades, score higher on exams and participate in all sorts of activities. It doesn't address the root causes, which is that discrimination against Asian Americans exists within admission offices.” 

 

Oiyan Poon, a former University of California, Davis, student affairs staff member, is a veteran of the college application review process. Now a researcher at the University of Massachusetts, Boston, studying higher education access issues, she thinks a disconnect exists between how Asian Americans approach college admissions and what admissions offices actually look for. 

 

“Many Asian immigrant families come from countries where cram schools to boost test scores are the answer to getting into a top university,” Poon said. “Parents also pick up on cues from universities and college rankings from US News and World Report that emphasize test scores and grades.”

 

Although grades and test scores are important, they serve as merely gatekeepers to the intense scrutiny of an applicant’s character and talents. And Poon believes that critical thinking about one’s strengths, motivations and career goals is often weak amongst Asian American applicants.

 

She also discovered that Asian Americans, as a whole, apply disproportionately to study the most competitive disciplines, namely science, technology, engineering and mathematics. Fifty-eight percent of Asian Americans chose such majors at UCLA, compared with 39 percent of white students. This likely reinforces the higher standards that Asian Americans must meet to gain admissions to top-tier institutions. 

 

 

Harrison Kim faces a higher standard because of his profile. He’s Korean American and lives in an upper middle-class community outside of Seattle, known for a golf course that regularly hosts PGA tournaments. Both of his parents immigrated to the United States as children and have college degrees. His father is a Boeing engineer and his mother is a homemaker. Kim hardly has the story of struggle that many admissions officers find touching when they look at minority applicants. 

 

He also wants to be a doctor — but only after some convincing from his parents. Kim originally wanted to follow his passion for music. He has played the piano since age 4 and counts bass guitar, acoustic guitar and drums in his repertoire. He plays in a church band and a school band and even pens his own songs. Indeed, Kim has the skills to pursue a more creative, non-stereotypical career.

 

“But my parents suggested I be a doctor,” he said. “Three of my five uncles are also doctors. After doing some research and speaking with them, I think being a doctor is ideal for me. With Koreans, you want to make your parents proud.”

Kim never considered applying to a school that was hoping to attract more Asian Americans, as many liberal arts colleges around the nation do, actively seeking greater diversity. Students have to dig for these gems. When asked, Kim said applying to liberal arts schools “hadn’t really crossed my mind.” 

 

In 2002, Kavita Kode chose to attend Whitman College, a tiny liberal arts school in Walla Walla, WA. She originally wanted to go to Yale, but her parents heard recommendations from colleagues at work about Whitman, ranked 38th among liberal arts colleges in US News and World Report. And Whitman does not fall short on prestige, consistently garnering the highest average SAT scores of all colleges in Washington. “My parents wanted me close to home and tried to convince me that Whitman was equivalent to an Ivy League education in the Pacific Northwest,” Kode said.

 

With only 1,450 students at Whitman, Kode was concerned about diversity. She had grown up in a predominantly white, middle-class suburb of Seattle and yearned for a college environment where she could become more closely connected with her Indian roots. At the time, Whitman had only a 7 percent Asian American student body, making a critical mass of Indian culture hard to come by.

Still, colleges like Whitman have one key advantage: They are keen to attract more Asian Americans in order to diversify their student body. When Tony Cabasco, Whitman’s dean of admissions and financial aid, entered Whitman as a young Filipino American student in 1986, the school was predominantly white and it had only one multi-ethnic student organization, where blacks, Latinos, Asian Americans and international students coalesced under one big tent. At the time, students of color made up only 6 percent of the student body. Since Cabasco became the director of admissions in 2001, he has led efforts to diversify Whitman’s student body, especially to reflect the demographics of a state that has a sizable Asian Pacific Islander population: 7.5 percent. Today, Whitman has increased its minority enrollment to 23 percent, with about 11 percent Asian American.

 

But universities have more incentive to diversify their student populations than just to better reflect society’s demographics, Golden said. “I think lesser-known but great institutions like Washington University in St. Louis are eager to move up on rankings and would want a high-performing group like Asian Americans in their student body as well.” 

 

Boosting minority enrollment has not been easy, Cabasco said, partially because Whitman’s name doesn’t have as much recognition as other elite schools. So Whitman, like many liberal arts colleges, has turned to creative minority recruitment strategies. The school partners with many community-based organizations, especially those that mentor and provide college prep services to underprivileged high school students, and offers a diversity scholarship for students it really wants. 

 

Whitman even flies in up to 100 low-income students each year to see the campus, because Cabasco believes doing so provides a better opportunity to judge the university and Walla Walla on its merits. Golden noted that Oberlin College and Emory University host special weekends to bring in Asian American applicants. It is hard to imagine Berkeley or Harvard flying in non-athlete freshmen prospects. 

Whitman’s desire to attract students of color, including Asian Americans, has so far been successful. In 2010, Whitman admitted 46 percent of all applicants, but it accepted 53 percent of all Asian American applicants and 54 percent of all students of color.

 

When Kode arrived on campus in fall 2002, she did not find the Indian American community she was looking for. The ethnic social events were a bit lacking, and her best friends were predominantly white and lived in her dorm. In her first year, she became jealous that her Indian friends at the University of Washington, the bigger state school in Seattle, had Indian parties, festivals and events to attend — even its own bhangra team.

 

Then, during her sophomore year, while walking to an event on racial diversity and tolerance, someone tried to run her over with a car. “I couldn’t recognize who it was, but they did roll down the window and yell ‘sandnigger’ at me,” she said. Other incidents followed, including one instance where campus security targeted minority students for security checks during a concert on campus.

Kode and her friends started a student group soon after to address racial discrimination on campus, organizing forums on diversity, cultural and social events at Whitman’s Intercultural Center, dialogue sessions during classes, and petitions to the administration to consider diversity when hiring. 

 

And they saw results. A year later, when Whitman’s administration was searching for a new college president, diversity and racial tolerance was a top priority in the publicly released criteria for the search. Kode recently returned to Whitman for her sister’s graduation and noticed a significant difference only four years after she left. Besides an increase in students of color, there was a shiny new multicultural center on campus.

 

To support the increase in minority students, 15 to 18 percent of faculty and staff are people of color, twice what it was 10 years ago. “It’s still a work in progress, but diversity has become a part of the fabric here,” Cabasco said.

 

Espenshade, the Princeton sociologist, suggests that applicants would do well to look beyond big-name, elite universities that attract large numbers of Asian American applicants and focus on those that still treat them as a minority in admissions. “Sure, apply to Princeton,” he said. “But there are the Whitmans out there eager to attract more Asian students. Don’t just apply to the three top schools.”  

 

Insert the Politics

Courtney Lee does not want to follow the stereotypical path of studying math, engineering or natural sciences at an elite university. The Chinese American San Francisco native seeks the smaller learning environments of liberal arts colleges. Her top choices are Hampshire College in Amherst, MA, and Connecticut College in New London, CT. 

 

She is leaning toward a major in the social sciences and has strengthened her application with a plethora of nonprofit and community service experience. She volunteered with 826 Valencia, where she tutored writing to low-income students. She also worked for Garden for the Environment, a nonprofit that cultivates small urban gardens.

 

But her dream schools carry a hefty price tag. Both Hampshire and Connecticut would cost more than $50,000 annually in tuition and room and board. She hopes her scholarship applications and financial aid will come through for her.

As a hedge, Lee applied to some schools on the opposite end of the spectrum, namely large public universities: UCLA, UC Davis, UC Santa Cruz and UC San Diego. Many of her friends and family members convinced her to apply to these schools as an alternative because they believed that the University of California provided quality education at a more affordable price. 

 

“They told me I could study the same subject matter and save money,” Lee said. “I wouldn't walk out with heavy loans.”

 

The notion that one can obtain a prestigious degree at a public university without spending a fortune has turned the 10-campus University of California system into the crown jewel for higher education amongst the state’s Asian American community. When California passed Proposition 209, banning the use of race as a factor in admissions in 1996, the Asian American student population system-wide increased from 25 percent in 1995 to 40 percent in 2009.

 

But black and Latino enrollment has suffered since Proposition 209. In 2005, UCLA had its lowest number of African Americans enroll: a paltry 96 out of a freshman class of around 4,000 students.

 

Because of this, University of California administrators began considering how to make their system more accessible to minority communities, and in 2008, they revised the rules determining applicant eligibility. These rules, which will go into effect for fall 2012, are meant to reduce barriers for underrepresented students. 

 

The biggest change was to remove SAT subject tests as a requirement. Previously, students had to take two subject tests to be eligible, which was a barrier to applicants who could not afford the $47 to take the tests or were not informed they needed to take them. The University of California also increased the percentage of students guaranteed admission from each high school in the state. The old eligibility policy only gave the top 4 percent of students in each high school a guaranteed space at a University of California campus, though not necessarily their preferred campus. Now, the top 9 percent will have a slot, which benefits students from low-income communities who suffer the most serious achievement gap. 

 

A third change reduced the percentage of students statewide who receive guaranteed admission, from the top 12.5 percent to the top 10 percent. Instead, the UC will make up the difference by admitting an additional 2.5 percent of students from an “entitled to review” pool, consisting of all students who have met requirements for coursework and taken the SAT.

 

But for Asian Americans who excel in tests and tend to make up a greater percentage of high achievers statewide, these changes might negatively impact their enrollment. When a group of Asian American academics and advocacy leaders met with the Board of Regents and asked it to do simulations in early 2009 on how these changes would affect admissions, initial results, prepared by the UC’s Institutional Research Office, seemed to threaten diversity across the board: African American admissions were predicted to drop by 27 percent, while Asian American and Latinos registered a 12 and 3 percent drop respectively.

Several Asian American professors and lawmakers called on the University of California to repeal the new rules. The media, including MSNBC and USA Today, ran articles on how the new University of California rules would decrease Asian American admissions.

 

Retired UC Berkeley ethnic studies professor Ling-Chi Wang is one who has called on the University of California to hold off implementation of the new policies pending further studies and most importantly, consultation with minority communities. “The new policy was formulated without the input and participation of racial minorities,” Wang said.

 

Wang argues that this policy, along with other changes the University of California made under the current era of fiscal austerity (decreasing total enrollment by 4,000 in the last two years and increasing tuition by 34 percent over the past year), would turn into a disaster for minority enrollment. 

 

The University of California is thus implementing a policy that runs counter to its supposed objectives, Wang has concluded. “Why has the university dismissed the findings of its own studies?” Wang said. “They have broadly increased the applicant pool at a time of shrinking enrollment and rising costs. The new policy, in short, is a false promise, and if I may even put it more bluntly, a cruel hoax!”

UC Davis professor Mark Rashid, who chaired the committee that recommended the new rules, said they had not originally planned to do simulations but were asked to do so later by those who opposed the reforms. “We warned that the simulations had huge assumptions on applicant behavior built in behind them,” Rashid said. “In retrospect, they were probably worse than wild speculation.”

Rashid argues that the University of California has an obligation to eliminate the unnecessary barriers that prevent many qualified minority students from applying, especially since research has shown that the SAT subject tests do not really predict how a student would perform in college. “K—12 education in California is so inequitable, it’s borderline criminal,” he said. “Even if factors like tuition and fee hikes limit minority enrollment, does it mean we allow an eligibility policy that is clearly unfair?”

 

Poon, of the University of Massachusetts, Boston, also takes issue with the accuracy of the simulations, claiming they had a margin of error as high as 30 percent (the UC itself admits the projections have “a high margin of error&rdquo. Besides, she argues, predicting actual enrollment is impossible.

 

“Enrollment is only the last step, and the hardest thing to predict,” Poon said. “It comes after student and family decision-making, financial aid offers and the actual admissions process, which is determined differently at each of the 10 UC campuses. The new policy is only about eligibility to apply. It is pretty far removed from actual enrollment.” Poon advocates a wait-and-see approach: waiting to analyze the racial composition of the 2012 freshman class, the first to get admitted under the new rules.

 

Other Asian American student groups are backing this approach. When the policy changes were being considered between 2006 and 2008, Asian American student organizations joined with other minority groups to support the change as a means to increase access for all minority communities. Those of Southeast Asian heritage, for example, have college education attainment rates that match closely with the black and Latino communities. Fewer than 20 percent of Laotian, Cambodian, Vietnamese and Hmong Americans hold bachelor’s degrees, compared with more than 40 percent of Chinese, Taiwanese, Filipino, Korean, Japanese and Indian Americans, according to the 2000 census.

 

“Asian American communities are really diverse, and groups such as Southeast Asians, who are often not as affluent, have more difficulty accessing UC schools,” said Gregory Cendana, who was on the executive board of UCLA’s Samahang Pilipino, a group that allied with other Asian, black and Latino student organizations to advocate for the removal of SAT subject test requirements.

 

“Any admissions process that includes less eligibility criteria will allow for more of these students to apply.” Ultimately, no one knows yet whether Asian Americans will be disadvantaged by these changes in the University of California system. 

 

In April, the high school seniors met their college fate: Harrison Kim, the Eagle Scout with excellent SAT scores, was not accepted to any Ivy Leagues he applied to, but he did get into Tufts and the University of Washington, among others. Courtney Lee, who had highlighted her community work and scored above average on the SATs, was accepted to all 10 liberal arts and public colleges she applied to, including UCLA, Hampshire College and Connecticut College.

 

It becomes too easy to pin this result solely on the existence of Asian disadvantage. The choices that Kim and Lee made, such as the schools they applied to, the majors they picked, and the way they approached their college essays, could have affected this outcome. However, what also influences this result is the black box known as the admissions office. Each has a particular reason why they accepted or rejected these students — but the schools are not telling. As admissions offices begin a new round of recruiting, a new crop of Asian American students likewise plan on trying their luck in overcoming the odds stacked against them. 

 

Originally Posted by Momentum:
 

Yeah, they dominate engineering indeed but in the real world on the job I can say African Americans kick ass! In the work place we tend to have better ideas more creative and we mind our own business and get the work done. Let me tell you we put in more hours because when we get the opportunity to have a good paying career we know we are fortunate no matter what ethnic background and we work with much more resiliency. Asians tend to breakdown under pressure, biytch and complain, they often work with frowns on their faces it seems they have pressure on them when its not necessary, a black person under the same work environment just keeps working with a much better attitude. That is anecdotal but that is what I have experienced.   

 

But let me add this, when things get crazy and unfair we are also the first ones to speak up and say what everyone is thinking. 

I don't think Asians are taught how to be creative.

 

They mostly do rote learning and repetition. I hear a lot of complaints about their work because they can't take think creativity and do shitty work.

 

 

 

Originally Posted by GoodMan:

       
Originally Posted by NSpirit:
Well looky looky....it seems the group that filed this suit does not represent an Asian American majority.  The group is using Asians to eliminate affirmative action and the Asians know it! Or at least some of them.
I saw that UNC advertisement, but I didn't know it was the same group.
 
If Asians are going against this campaign, either:
 
They value some solidarity with Latinos and African Americans (which would be weird since we are worlds apart)
 
 
They don't wanna be ruled over by White people and used as pawn (makes sense)
 
There's a generational difference (meaning, young Asian Americans are against this shit)
 
----
 
It's true that there is poorer Asian ethnics, not every Asian ethnic group is well off. 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

       


The article definitely provides a bit of context for me. This same group bringing the suit is willing to pit Asians against Blacks to achieve their goal of eradicating affirmative action. The logic in the suit seems so twisted and convoluted though. It's almost as if Asians should have 90% of slots with whites and Hispanics fighting over the rest and Blacks be fanned. Further, as you've pointed out Asians may well dominate in some science and technology but there are so many majors where they don't even bother.
Originally Posted by GoodMan:
Originally Posted by Momentum:
 

Yeah, they dominate engineering indeed but in the real world on the job I can say African Americans kick ass! In the work place we tend to have better ideas more creative and we mind our own business and get the work done. Let me tell you we put in more hours because when we get the opportunity to have a good paying career we know we are fortunate no matter what ethnic background and we work with much more resiliency. Asians tend to breakdown under pressure, biytch and complain, they often work with frowns on their faces it seems they have pressure on them when its not necessary, a black person under the same work environment just keeps working with a much better attitude. That is anecdotal but that is what I have experienced.   

 

But let me add this, when things get crazy and unfair we are also the first ones to speak up and say what everyone is thinking. 

I don't think Asians are taught how to be creative.

 

They mostly do rote learning and repetition. I hear a lot of complaints about their work because they can't take think creativity and do shitty work.

 

 

 

Let me tell ya, white people KNOW THIS and know better than anyone. Which is why we get so much attention. This is why they have these notions of us being super, magical. When a black person has it, its hard not to notice. But the flip side at some point we will stand up for ourselves and unfortunately we do it in losing situations because we are not the majority and working for someone else. I know in my heart if we as a people pull together and cultivate our own business and industrial complex it would be something to marvel. 

Originally Posted by NSpirit:
 
The article definitely provides a bit of context for me. This same group bringing the suit is willing to pit Asians against Blacks to achieve their goal of eradicating affirmative action. The logic in the suit seems so twisted and convoluted though. It's almost as if Asians should have 90% of slots with whites and Hispanics fighting over the rest and Blacks be fanned. Further, as you've pointed out Asians may well dominate in some science and technology but there are so many majors where they don't even bother.

Well the problem is...

 

Outside of the California, Asians can't get into these Elite universities like Yale, Harvard and Princeton.

 

And their problem is, since they are so good at testing and etc, the universities give them a higher standard.

 

I am Black...say I gotta score around 1850 on the SAT and have 3.4

 

White guy, 1900 3.5

 

Asian guy, 2000 3.8

 

That's what Affirmative Action does, it creates a racial tier system of how good you gotta be to get into college because if it was based on strictly merit, Asians would dominate and the rest of us would just have to fight over the scrapes. 

 

Instead what happens, it's kinda like a quota system. Spots are reserved for ethnic groups based on test scores and overall admissions on profile. 

 

Asians DO have a case about Affirmative Action because already kinda sorta unfair. School systems create these test barriers in order to craft a certain student population that relates to their prestige but when a group crush the tests, you'll curb their admissions rate in favor of others that aren't so good at testing. That's why they are fighting over Affirmative Action in Cali against the Latinos because Latinos without Affirmative Action, can't get in. After Affirmative Action went away,, we couldn't get in either.  But when Affirmative Action went away Asians got in like never before. 

 

Asians got California Public Schools system locked the hell down. They gun for test scores and etc and lobby to keep the system in place that allows them to dominate.

 

Asians are in favor of getting rid of Affirmative Action, they just not gonna tell us to our face. It really makes 0 sense for them to even want Affirmative Action, unless for the lesser Asian groups, but they probably won't give up their dominance for some Laotians and Cambodians. 

 

They'll wait until they move into your state and they start to dominate in numbers and they gonna do like they do in California. They'll join the Democratic Party and they'll bully the hell out of you over it.

 

Asians are already increasing  in number in Texas duo the the tech jobs there and they already pushing against Affirmative Action there.

 

 

In social services I've observed some different family dynamics with East Asian families. I've seen elderly people be yelled at by spouses and children for being, feeble,forgetful and needing services.  I've seen Asian women totally unaware of rights, options, services they are entitled to. But I've also seen Korean women be extra feisty toward their men in hair shops.

Every family and every community operates from a set of values and its fascinating to observe. There is no model minority. Everybody got "dynamics" and shame is a powerful motivator.
Originally Posted by NSpirit:
In social services I've observed some different family dynamics with East Asian families. I've seen elderly people be yelled at by spouses and children for being, feeble,forgetful and needing services.  I've seen Asian women totally unaware of rights, options, services they are entitled to. But I've also seen Korean women be extra feisty toward their men in hair shops.

Every family and every community operates from a set of values and its fascinating to observe. There is no model minority. Everybody got "dynamics" and shame is a powerful motivator.

 

Asians are kinda cruel in relation to Westerners. I lived in Asia, seen them in action.Plus I seen their media, the Korean dramas.  They are very interesting in regards to their dynamics. It's that Confucianism. 

 

I think they are just high pressure Type A all the way kind of people. 

They got some of the highest suicide rates in the world. 

 

 

Everything is success and family oriented. I think that's why they are considered the "Model Minority".

 

 

They fit the Anglo-American Puritan model - "Work hard and you'll be successful"

 

 

The Southern and Eastern Europeans were drunkards and gamblers and all around criminals.

 

Latinos and Blacks, too dumb and lazy.

 

But Asians, they work hard, they are smart, tiny, shy, don't cause too many problems for us Anglo men..., until they out work our poor White trash and then we gotta curb their immigration for decades.

------

 

But yeah, they do fit the whole Puritan model, which is why they are model minority for many Euro Americans. Plus the White man like their women and their women like the White man. 

 

 

White man always talking about how wonderful the Asians are and how proud of them they are. It cracks me up. 

 

I hate this paternalistic feeling Whites have towards us Blacks and Latinos and Asians. It's like the Asian is the star child and the rest of us are the Black and Brown sheep. 

 

I am like  "Yo, I ain't your kid, I ain't your subordinate and I am not your responsibility, leave me alone White man."

Originally Posted by Momentum:
 

Let me tell ya, white people KNOW THIS and know better than anyone. Which is why we get so much attention. This is why they have these notions of us being super, magical. When a black person has it, its hard not to notice. But the flip side at some point we will stand up for ourselves and unfortunately we do it in losing situations because we are not the majority and working for someone else. I know in my heart if we as a people pull together and cultivate our own business and industrial complex it would be something to marvel. 

We just need to get educational control like the Asians got in California.

 

If we can get ahead in the education system and seize power over it, we can pump out engineers, computer scientists and all types of shit like they do. We already do great things anyway. Just think if we got into the sciences like we are into everything else.

 

We already built the first social network with Blackplanet, the thing is we got no human capital infrastructure. We need more people, more average people, not just tokens who are extra special. 

 

Not all of these Asians and Whites are super geniuses, they just got everything in place where they can turn average people into capable people and some are not even capable, they just test good. 

 

Power in this country is plural. We don't have to be the president and be all up in DC.

 

We can simply take an area or a city and run it and can do marvelous things in it. 

 

I always say, We waste more time, money and resources dealing with White people and their bullshit, when we could spend more time, money and resources builiding things for ourselves and our children. White man gets too much attention.

 

We just need some standards that we can build a civilization off of. No more Kwame Kilpatricks and Ray Nagins.

 

And we need a code, so we won't have Raven Symones saying dumb shit and Barack Obamas that let crackers walk all over him trying to be "race neutral".

 

We just need standards, guidelines and protocol and we need some race warriors that ain't afraid to get dirty. 

Originally Posted by GoodMan:
Originally Posted by Momentum:
 

Let me tell ya, white people KNOW THIS and know better than anyone. Which is why we get so much attention. This is why they have these notions of us being super, magical. When a black person has it, its hard not to notice. But the flip side at some point we will stand up for ourselves and unfortunately we do it in losing situations because we are not the majority and working for someone else. I know in my heart if we as a people pull together and cultivate our own business and industrial complex it would be something to marvel. 

We just need to get educational control like the Asians got in California.

 

If we can get ahead in the education system and seize power over it, we can pump out engineers, computer scientists and all types of shit like they do. We already do great things anyway. Just think if we got into the sciences like we are into everything else.

 

We already built the first social network with Blackplanet, the thing is we got no human capital infrastructure. We need more people, more average people, not just tokens who are extra special. 

 

Not all of these Asians and Whites are super geniuses, they just got everything in place where they can turn average people into capable people and some are not even capable, they just test good. 

 

Power in this country is plural. We don't have to be the president and be all up in DC.

 

We can simply take an area or a city and run it and can do marvelous things in it. 

 

I always say, We waste more time, money and resources dealing with White people and their bullshit, when we could spend more time, money and resources builiding things for ourselves and our children. White man gets too much attention.

 

We just need some standards that we can build a civilization off of. No more Kwame Kilpatricks and Ray Nagins.

 

And we need a code, so we won't have Raven Symones saying dumb shit and Barack Obamas that let crackers walk all over him trying to be "race neutral".

 

We just need standards, guidelines and protocol and we need some race warriors that ain't afraid to get dirty. 

Yeah, what I've been saying and I'm sure others thinking one way or another but honestly I think most black people have lost their confidence in our own people. Especially so when you don't see such projects or at least discussions not a priority in our most recognized social organizations and churches. 

 

I think its a cop out to use our social argument and capital to persuade white people to change while in numbers if we as a people change our priorities who and where we spend our money and among other things to benefit our own communities will get us where we want to be effectively and the sense of confidence will kill our notions of inadequacy. 

Originally Posted by Momentum:
Originally Posted by GoodMan:
 

Yeah, what I've been saying and I'm sure others thinking one way or another but honestly I think most black people have lost their confidence in our own people. Especially so when you don't see such projects or at least discussions not a priority in our most recognized social organizations and churches. 

 

I think its a cop out to use our social argument and capital to persuade white people to change while in numbers if we as a people change our priorities who and where we spend our money and among other things to benefit our own communities will get us where we want to be effectively and the sense of confidence will kill our notions of inadequacy. 

 

I think it's a cop out too and it's an interesting debate, that we have internally.

 

Remember the debate you had take place.

 

Booker T Washington, wanted us to industrialize and leave White people alone.

 

WEB Dubois wanted us to challenge Whites and change opinions and campaign and all of that.

 

For some reason, Booker T Washington loss and WEB Dubois won. We been forgoing our economic development ever since and screwing around with these White liberals and going against conservatives.

 

While we have never seen any other group in the USA, make a persistent effort to engage with Whites. They always clammed up and insulated themselves, shielding themselves from Whites.

 

I don't even think Latinos really challenge Whites like that. We had that one era in the 60s led by us, where every non White was engaging with Whites and after that era, everybody left and went back to their community.

 

I think the whole engagement with Whites is a way for us to not go do the work and say we are doing something. 

 

It's way easier to protest and campaign than building an economy and a community that can protect itself from all attacks. That's generational work, you gotta go without and struggle and raise children and develop a culture. You can protest and campaign against anything and everything and when the opposition doesn't give in, you can call it racist and White supremacist. When your business fails, you can't blame anybody but yourself. A lot of times I think we are shielding ourselves from failure because if we do fail it will confirm our inferiority. There's really no failing at campaigning and protesting. You just go on to the next incident if it doesn't work out. And if you succeed, well, you can say you did something. 

 

 

Protesting and campaiging does have it's place, that's how you bring awareness and mobilize, but we are not organizing, it's like we can get thousands of people to protest, but we can't get thousands of us to form a local political party or a bloc or a cooperative corporation or anything of any substance, but we can get people to take a picture with their hands up for Michael Brown. 

 

It's like we have an aversion to organizing and doing things on an independent macro generation level. White people got unions that existed since the 30s and they still got power today.

 

We got civil rights organizations that we think are sellouts and they are actually sponsored by our enemy. There are still Chinatowns that exist today. We don't even have anything similar because after ours got burned down, we just gave up, like it wasn't worth it anymore, we going to integrate instead. There are Jewish families that are billionaires and 100+ millionaires that got major clout that been around for generations and the closest thing we got is the Jackson Family. 

 

We are just out organized and underdeveloped on every level but we are so visible and influential (but subordinate to everybody else), it doesn't make any sense. We can be superstars, the political vanguards and employees but never owners, power brokers and controllers. It's a fucked up situation. 

 

We about to protest and campaign ourselves out of existence when all we gotta do is, is do the civilization work and all our current problems will slowly go away and we'll get new problems that are about maintain our power structure and how to promote ourselves in the world. 

 

We'll get Jew problems instead of our current Black problems, Jew problems will become our new Black problems.

 

We'll be talking about how to keep Whites out of taking over the Atlanta movie industry scene instead of talking about how to keep Whites from shooting us in the back.

Originally Posted by GoodMan:
Originally Posted by Momentum:
Originally Posted by GoodMan:
 

Yeah, what I've been saying and I'm sure others thinking one way or another but honestly I think most black people have lost their confidence in our own people. Especially so when you don't see such projects or at least discussions not a priority in our most recognized social organizations and churches. 

 

I think its a cop out to use our social argument and capital to persuade white people to change while in numbers if we as a people change our priorities who and where we spend our money and among other things to benefit our own communities will get us where we want to be effectively and the sense of confidence will kill our notions of inadequacy. 

 

I think it's a cop out too and it's an interesting debate, that we have internally.

 

Remember the debate you had take place.

 

Booker T Washington, wanted us to industrialize and leave White people alone.

 

WEB Dubois wanted us to challenge Whites and change opinions and campaign and all of that.

 

For some reason, Booker T Washington loss and WEB Dubois won. We been forgoing our economic development ever since and screwing around with these White liberals and going against conservatives.

 

While we have never seen any other group in the USA, make a persistent effort to engage with Whites. They always clammed up and insulated themselves, shielding themselves from Whites.

 

I don't even think Latinos really challenge Whites like that. We had that one era in the 60s led by us, where every non White was engaging with Whites and after that era, everybody left and went back to their community.

 

I think the whole engagement with Whites is a way for us to not go do the work and say we are doing something. 

 

It's way easier to protest and campaign than building an economy and a community that can protect itself from all attacks. That's generational work, you gotta go without and struggle and raise children and develop a culture. You can protest and campaign against anything and everything and when the opposition doesn't give in, you can call it racist and White supremacist. When your business fails, you can't blame anybody but yourself. A lot of times I think we are shielding ourselves from failure because if we do fail it will confirm our inferiority. There's really no failing at campaigning and protesting. You just go on to the next incident if it doesn't work out. And if you succeed, well, you can say you did something. 

 

 

Protesting and campaiging does have it's place, that's how you bring awareness and mobilize, but we are not organizing, it's like we can get thousands of people to protest, but we can't get thousands of us to form a local political party or a bloc or a cooperative corporation or anything of any substance, but we can get people to take a picture with their hands up for Michael Brown. 

 

It's like we have an aversion to organizing and doing things on an independent macro generation level. White people got unions that existed since the 30s and they still got power today.

 

We got civil rights organizations that we think are sellouts and they are actually sponsored by our enemy. There are still Chinatowns that exist today. We don't even have anything similar because after ours got burned down, we just gave up, like it wasn't worth it anymore, we going to integrate instead. There are Jewish families that are billionaires and 100+ millionaires that got major clout that been around for generations andcthe closest thing we got is the Jackson Family.

 

(LOL!!! what fukkin shame we think that but there are other rich and successful blacks but did not make their money in the limelight.)

 

We are just out organized and underdeveloped on every level but we are so visible and influential (but subordinate to everybody else), it doesn't make any sense. We can be superstars, the political vanguards and employees but never owners, power brokers and controllers. It's a fucked up situation. 

 

We about to protest and campaign ourselves out of existence when all we gotta do is, is do the civilization work and all our current problems will slowly go away and we'll get new problems that are about maintain our power structure and how to promote ourselves in the world. 

 

We'll get Jew problems instead of our current Black problems, Jew problems will become our new Black problems.

 

We'll be talking about how to keep Whites out of taking over the Atlanta movie industry scene instead of talking about how to keep Whites from shooting us in the back.

Brah, dap on your subtle sarcasm too funny! 

 

That is one of the best and accurate assessments on our current level of ambition of creating our own its in a gaddam shambles and when I think about all the others things going on with us, the fact we don't give a decent effort in creating our own business and education culture makes me angry and it will indeed lead to our ultimate destruction. Protest and biytch all you want we are defenseless without our own, we can't insulate ourselves from the deadly and racist missiles launched at our communities and begging white people to be fair is depressing and demoralizing. 

 

I don't give a fuk what else we do as a people if we do not make investing among ourselves our top priority with 90% of our energy in that effort we are just fukkin wasting our gaddam time. 

 

We keep doing the same shit, we protest and drowning at the same time, we protesting and cutting our own throats at the same time and it will lead to the great majority of African American family trees being completely eliminated in the next 50 years. Not doing the work that really matters is a culture of self destruction!

 

 I encourage my kids to travel the world maybe immigrate to another country because as black people it looks like we will have nothing of our own here. Its a gaddam fact and it makes me crazy angry!  

 

What I find interesting about my best friends either work for or own black businesses. One is a car sales business, black owned and the other is an IT company, black owned and both are doing well. However both of these friends tend to have self loathing notions about black people and both men love white women. Yet they do their own thing and work better with black people. Its Ironic.

 

You might be interested to know who the black owned IT company is. The brother is good peeps and been through the ringer making it work and doing well. Starting an IT company is really kinda easy but working it is exhausting but once you are able to get a few people working for you its becomes much easier and because IT inherently change and innovates so much it inherently creates opportunities. 

 

Originally Posted by Momentum:
 

Brah, dap on your subtle sarcasm too funny! 

 

That is one of the best and accurate assessments on our current level of ambition of creating our own its in a gaddam shambles and when I think about all the others things going on with us, the fact we don't give a decent effort in creating our own business and education culture makes me angry and it will indeed lead to our ultimate destruction. Protest and biytch all you want we are defenseless without our own, we can't insulate ourselves from the deadly and racist missiles launched at our communities and begging white people to be fair is depressing and demoralizing. 

 

I don't give a fuk what else we do as a people if we do not make investing among ourselves our top priority with 90% of our energy in that effort we are just fukkin wasting our gaddam time. 

 

We keep doing the same shit, we protest and drowning at the same time, we protesting and cutting our own throats at the same time and it will lead to the great majority of African American family trees being completely eliminated in the next 50 years. Not doing the work that really matters is a culture of self destruction!

 

 I encourage my kids to travel the world maybe immigrate to another country because as black people it looks like we will have nothing of our own here. Its a gaddam fact and it makes me crazy angry!  

 

What I find interesting about my best friends either work for or own black businesses. One is a car sales business, black owned and the other is an IT company, black owned and both are doing well. However both of these friends tend to have self loathing notions about black people and both men love white women. Yet they do their own thing and work better with black people.

 

You might be interested to know who the black owned IT company is. The brother is good peeps and been through the ringer making it work and doing well. Starting and IT company is really kinda easy but working it is exhausting but once you are able to get a few people working for you its becomes much easier and because IT inherently change and innovates so much it inherently creates opportunities. 

 

 

I know I was joking about that Jackson Family thing, but seriously think about it like this.

 

We know there are rich and I mean rich Black people that aren't celebrities, but they might be businessmen and politicians that been around since forever. 

 

But, we don't feel them. I mean that like, we don't see their influence in our lives. 

 

You see and feel the wealthy White families. But you ask any Black person, who is the most famous and influential Black family that impacted your life....we would say, the Jackson Family. 

 

Am I wrong? I mean seriously. Do we have a generational dynastic family out there that is visible and recognizable? Like the Rockefellers, Kennedys, Bushs, Carnegies, Fords and Rothschilds. These are institutionalized families. 

 

We probably need to get a damn academic book to find out if such a family exists among us. 

 

Only one that is highly visible and I can think of off the top of my head, are the Jacksons. But then I don't even think they count, because the children of the family ain't anywhere near successful. 

 

There are plenty of rich Blacks but they be on some My Kind of People type shit. They be like that brother that went to Harvard and wanna protect himself by Whitening himself and his family. 

 

These the motherfuckers that be moving to White neighborhoods and just disappearing off the Black radar. I don't like that mentality we have. 

 

Soon as we get something individually, it's "Fuck these niggas, these niggas ain't shit, about to go over here with these White people."

 

How are we supposed to better our population if we wanna run away from ourselves? That's fucking dumb. You can't berate the population for being underdeveloped and then want to run away to Crackerland. 

 

We need more of the rich regular Blacks that wants to MINGLE with our people. Not run away. Just think of Carnegie was like, "Man fuck the Irish, drunk motherfuckers. About to hang out with these Anglo Americans"

 

We need visible everyday rich Black people that are proactive in trying to change things instead of being scared of racism and the psychological damages of it. A lot of us are simply scared of racism and we shouldn't be because this is the USA, we were born in it. 

 

Being Black and scared of racism is like being afraid of your own shadow. Most of the racism that actually affect our livelihood we don't even know what is going on.  But the confrontation racism being called a nigger and crazy genocidal teachers, I mean yeah it sucks but suck it up and keep going. Stop trying to hide from it and the places these rich Black are with White people. 

 

------

 

And we agree.

 

White people should not be the center of our universe.

 

They are an obstacle, not the cause of all our problems.

 

And you know I am thinking about getting my degrees and getting the fuck on outta here. 

 

Thinking of going to Ghana and doing some Pioneer Capitalism, the shit the Asians do, they go to underdeveloped countries like Jamaica and Brazil and parts of Africa and set up businesses. 

 

 

Originally Posted by GoodMan:
Originally Posted by Momentum:
 

Brah, dap on your subtle sarcasm too funny! 

 

That is one of the best and accurate assessments on our current level of ambition of creating our own its in a gaddam shambles and when I think about all the others things going on with us, the fact we don't give a decent effort in creating our own business and education culture makes me angry and it will indeed lead to our ultimate destruction. Protest and biytch all you want we are defenseless without our own, we can't insulate ourselves from the deadly and racist missiles launched at our communities and begging white people to be fair is depressing and demoralizing. 

 

I don't give a fuk what else we do as a people if we do not make investing among ourselves our top priority with 90% of our energy in that effort we are just fukkin wasting our gaddam time. 

 

We keep doing the same shit, we protest and drowning at the same time, we protesting and cutting our own throats at the same time and it will lead to the great majority of African American family trees being completely eliminated in the next 50 years. Not doing the work that really matters is a culture of self destruction!

 

 I encourage my kids to travel the world maybe immigrate to another country because as black people it looks like we will have nothing of our own here. Its a gaddam fact and it makes me crazy angry!  

 

What I find interesting about my best friends either work for or own black businesses. One is a car sales business, black owned and the other is an IT company, black owned and both are doing well. However both of these friends tend to have self loathing notions about black people and both men love white women. Yet they do their own thing and work better with black people.

 

You might be interested to know who the black owned IT company is. The brother is good peeps and been through the ringer making it work and doing well. Starting and IT company is really kinda easy but working it is exhausting but once you are able to get a few people working for you its becomes much easier and because IT inherently change and innovates so much it inherently creates opportunities. 

 

 

I know I was joking about that Jackson Family thing, but seriously think about it like this.

 

We know there are rich and I mean rich Black people that aren't celebrities, but they might be businessmen and politicians that been around since forever. 

 

But, we don't feel them. I mean that like, we don't see their influence in our lives. 

 

You see and feel the wealthy White families. But you ask any Black person, who is the most famous and influential Black family that impacted your life....we would say, the Jackson Family. 

 

Am I wrong? I mean seriously. Do we have a generational dynastic family out there that is visible and recognizable? Like the Rockefellers, Kennedys, Bushs, Carnegies, Fords and Rothschilds. These are institutionalized families. 

 

We probably need to get a damn academic book to find out if such a family exists among us. 

 

Only one that is highly visible and I can think of off the top of my head, are the Jacksons. But then I don't even think they count, because the children of the family ain't anywhere near successful. 

 

There are plenty of rich Blacks but they be on some My Kind of People type shit. They be like that brother that went to Harvard and wanna protect himself by Whitening himself and his family. 

 

These the motherfuckers that be moving to White neighborhoods and just disappearing off the Black radar. I don't like that mentality we have. 

 

Soon as we get something individually, it's "Fuck these niggas, these niggas ain't shit, about to go over here with these White people."

 

How are we supposed to better our population if we wanna run away from ourselves? That's fucking dumb. You can't berate the population for being underdeveloped and then want to run away to Crackerland. 

 

We need more of the rich regular Blacks that wants to MINGLE with our people. Not run away. Just think of Carnegie was like, "Man fuck the Irish, drunk motherfuckers. About to hang out with these Anglo Americans"

 

We need visible everyday rich Black people that are proactive in trying to change things instead of being scared of racism and the psychological damages of it. A lot of us are simply scared of racism and we shouldn't be because this is the USA, we were born in it. 

 

Being Black and scared of racism is like being afraid of your own shadow. Most of the racism that actually affect our livelihood we don't even know what is going on.  But the confrontation racism being called a nigger and crazy genocidal teachers, I mean yeah it sucks but suck it up and keep going. Stop trying to hide from it and the places these rich Black are with White people. 

 

------

 

And we agree.

 

White people should not be the center of our universe.

 

They are an obstacle, not the cause of all our problems.

 

And you know I am thinking about getting my degrees and getting the fuck on outta here. 

 

Thinking of going to Ghana and doing some Pioneer Capitalism, the shit the Asians do, they go to underdeveloped countries like Jamaica and Brazil and parts of Africa and set up businesses. 

 

 

Outside of Africa which has a future of chaos ahead of it but real opportunities too. I suggest Suriname, Guyana and French Guiana, countries with majority of ethnically mixed and black populations, stable to do business but more interesting black people have their own cultures that feels organic not borrowed and patched together from white people. Also they are not islands which will be under the threat of global warming. 

 

And from a man's standpoint lots of really beautiful black and mixed women, facial features and consistent beautiful body features you don't see on a consistent bases here in the states. Also, I think how females think in those countries may fit well with you. But dude the raw untouched beauty without fake hair and makeup is just something to marvel at. 

 

As a young dude I got a chance to work in all three of those countries in the early 80's and 90's and felt drawn to that region ever since. 

Originally Posted by Momentum:
 

 

Outside of Africa which has a future of chaos ahead of it but real opportunities too. I suggest Suriname, Guyana and French Guiana, countries with majority of ethnically mixed and black populations, stable to do business but more interesting black people have their own cultures that feels organic not borrowed and patched together from white people. Also they are not islands which will be under the threat of global warming. 

 

And from a man's standpoint lots of really beautiful black and mixed women, facial features and consistent beautiful body features you don't see on a consistent bases here in the states. Also, I think how females think in those countries may fit well with you. But dude the raw untouched beauty without fake hair and makeup is just something to marvel at. 

 

As a young dude I got a chance to work in all three of those countries in the early 80's and 90's and felt drawn to that region ever since. 

Suriname, Guyana, French Guiana.

 

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com...-embassy-in-Suriname

 

Wait, Suriname is the country that demanded reparations from the Dutch..

 

These are some of the type of places that the Chinese be going to set up shop.

 

Only thing I would be scared of is the got damn bugs though. They have scorpions and stuff. 

 

I would like the women though. You can always tell us apart, it's like a look or something each of our group have. The straight Black and the Mixed Black sisters in South America do be looking real good. 

 

Also, the brothers in Suriname are good ass kickboxers. 

 

I was thinking Panama, Bahia Brazil, Costa Rica and Belize. 

 

I was thinking of doing some type of tech start up in the developing world, something to do with money since banking is underdeveloped there. Like a Paypal for them or something. 

Originally Posted by GoodMan:
Originally Posted by Momentum:
 

 

Outside of Africa which has a future of chaos ahead of it but real opportunities too. I suggest Suriname, Guyana and French Guiana, countries with majority of ethnically mixed and black populations, stable to do business but more interesting black people have their own cultures that feels organic not borrowed and patched together from white people. Also they are not islands which will be under the threat of global warming. 

 

And from a man's standpoint lots of really beautiful black and mixed women, facial features and consistent beautiful body features you don't see on a consistent bases here in the states. Also, I think how females think in those countries may fit well with you. But dude the raw untouched beauty without fake hair and makeup is just something to marvel at. 

 

As a young dude I got a chance to work in all three of those countries in the early 80's and 90's and felt drawn to that region ever since. 

Suriname, Guyana, French Guiana.

 

These are some of the type of places that the Chinese be going to set up shop.

 

Only thing I would be scared of is the got damn bugs though. They have scorpions and stuff. 

 

I would like the women though. You can always tell us apart, it's like a look or something each of our group have. The straight Black and the Mixed Black sisters in South America do be looking real good. 

 

Also, the brothers in Suriname are good ass kickboxers. 

 

I was thinking Panama, Bahia Brazil, Costa Rica and Belize. 

 

I was thinking of doing some type of tech start up in the developing world, something to do with money since banking is underdeveloped there. Like a Paypal for them or something. 

Too much self loathing in Panama and black people are indeed shut out. Brazil is a big country and borders the regions I spoke of and Uruguay that has a strong black population that was created when the Italians in Argentina genocide the black population and blacks fled to Uruguay back in the late 1800's. Blacks in most of the South American countries are have a hard time, Chile, Peru are very racist, very pro white but as you know many of those South American countries are really doing bad, Guatemala that have the longest border with Belize and Honduras have among the highest murder rates in the world.

 

Belize is OK I've been there a couple times but its kinda corrupt and crime there is kinda high, once you see the condition the University of Belize is in and the Marion Jones sports arena kinda makes the wrong impression but perhaps they have made improvements. Belize is for sale, water treatment is owned privately, white people is buying up Belize and its infrastructure, check it out and you will see for yourself. I never felt comfortable in Belize although almost everyone speaks English. Blacks in Belize have a huge fascination for NYC for some reason. 

Originally Posted by Momentum:
 

Too much self loathing in Panama and black people are indeed shut out. Brazil is a big country and borders the regions I spoke of and Uruguay that has a strong black population that was created when the Italians in Argentina genocide the black population and blacks fled to Uruguay back in the late 1800's. Blacks in most of the South American countries are have a hard time, Chile, Peru are very racist, very pro white but as you know many of those South American countries are really doing bad, Guatemala that have the longest border with Belize and Honduras have among the highest murder rates in the world.

 

Belize is OK I've been there a couple times but its kinda corrupt and crime there is kinda high, once you see the condition the University of Belize is in and the Marion Jones sports arena kinda makes the wrong impression but perhaps they have made improvements. Belize is for sale, water treatment is owned privately, white people is buying up Belize and its infrastructure, check it out and you will see for yourself. I never felt comfortable in Belize although almost everyone speaks English. Blacks in Belize have a huge fascination for NYC for some reason. 

Thanks for giving me the rundown.

 

I gotta couple years before I make my decision of where I wanna go.

 

I'ma have to hit you up and talk about my plans though, young brother needs some guidance. 

Originally Posted by GoodMan:
Originally Posted by Momentum:
 

Too much self loathing in Panama and black people are indeed shut out. Brazil is a big country and borders the regions I spoke of and Uruguay that has a strong black population that was created when the Italians in Argentina genocide the black population and blacks fled to Uruguay back in the late 1800's. Blacks in most of the South American countries are have a hard time, Chile, Peru are very racist, very pro white but as you know many of those South American countries are really doing bad, Guatemala that have the longest border with Belize and Honduras have among the highest murder rates in the world.

 

Belize is OK I've been there a couple times but its kinda corrupt and crime there is kinda high, once you see the condition the University of Belize is in and the Marion Jones sports arena kinda makes the wrong impression but perhaps they have made improvements. Belize is for sale, water treatment is owned privately, white people is buying up Belize and its infrastructure, check it out and you will see for yourself. I never felt comfortable in Belize although almost everyone speaks English. Blacks in Belize have a huge fascination for NYC for some reason. 

Thanks for giving me the rundown.

 

I gotta couple years before I make my decision of where I wanna go.

 

I'ma have to hit you up and talk about my plans though, young brother needs some guidance. 

It'l be my pleasure, man I wish I could go back to at least my mid 30's, life is so short, its so unfair the time we have on this Earth. Looking back there are several forks in the road in which I could have choose a more interesting and rewarding direction. Oh well, can't complain but I'm the type who is never really satisfied. LOL down the line we'll exchange email or something. 

 

 

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