What do y'all think of this theory?

ConfusedJust sending it out....



Are Black Women Scaring Off Their Men?



The Washington Post

By: Joy Jones



Have you met this woman? She has a good job, works hard, and earns a good salary. She went to college, she got her master's degree; she is intelligent. She is personable, articulate, well read, interested in everybody and everything Yet, she's single.



Or maybe you know this one. Active in the church. Faithful, committed, sings in the choir, serves on the usher board, and attends every committee meeting. Loves the Lord and knows the Word. You'd think that with her command of the Scriptures and the respect of her church members, she'd have a marriage as solid as a rock. But again, no husband.



Or perhaps you recognize the community activist. She's a black lady, or, as she prefers, an African American woman, on the move. She sports A short natural; sometimes cornrow braids, or even dreadlocks.She's an organizer, a motivator, a dynamo. Her work for her people speaks for itself--organizing women for a self-help, raising funds for A community cause, educating others around a new issue in South Africa. Black folks look up to her, and white folks know she's a force to be reckoned with. Yet once again, the men leave her alone.



What do these women have in common? They have so much; what is it they lack? Why is it they may be able to hook a man but can't hold him? The women puzzle over this quandary themselves. They gather at professional clubs, at sorority meetings or over coffee at the office and wonder what's wrong with black men? They hold special prayer vigils and fast and pray and beg Jesus to send the men back to church. They find the brothers attending political strategizing sessions or participating in protests but when it comes time to go home, the brothers go home to someone else.



I know these women because I am all of these women. And after asking over and over again "What's wrong with these men?", it finally dawned on me to ask the question, "What's wrong with us women?" What I have found, and what many of these women have yet to discover, is that the skills that make one successful in the church, community or workplace are

not the skills that make one successful in a relationship.



Linear thinking, self-reliance, structured goals and direct action assist one in getting assignments done, in organizing church or club activities or in positioning oneself for a raise, but relationship- building requires different skills. It requires making decisions that not only gratify you, but satisfy others. It means doing things that will keep the peace rather than achieve the goal, and sometimes it means creating the peace in the first place. Maintaining a harmonious relationship will not always allow you to take the straight line between two points. You may have to stoop to conquer or yield to win.



In too many cases, when dealing with men, you will have to sacrifice being right in order to enjoy being loved. Being acknowledged as the head of the household is an especially important thing for many black men, since their manhood is so often actively challenged everywhere else. Many modern women are so independent, so self-sufficient, so committed to the cause, to the church, to career or their narrow concepts that their entire personalities project an "I don't need a man" message. So they end up without one. An interested man may be attracted but he soon discovers that this sister makes very little space for him in her life. Going to graduate school is a good goal and an option that previous generations of blacks have not had. But sometimes the achieving woman will place her boyfriend so low on her list of priorities that his interest wanes. Between work, school and homework, she's seldom "there" for him, for the preliminaries that might develop a commitment to a woman. ! She's too busy to prepare him a home-cooked meal or to be a listening ear for his concerns because she is so occupied with her own.



Soon he uses her only for uncommitted sex since to him she appears unavailable for anything else. Blind to the part she's playing in the problem, she ends up thinking, "Men only want one thing." And she decides she's better off with the degree than the friendship. When she's 45, she may wish she'd set different priorities while she was younger. It's not just the busy career girl who can't see the forest for the trees.



A couple I know were having marital troubles. During one argument, the husband confronted the wife and asked what she thought they should do about the marriage, what direction they should take. She reached for her Bible and turned to Ephesians. "I know what Paul says and I know what Jesus says about marriage," he told her, "What do you say about our

marriage?" Dumbfounded, she could not say anything. Like so many of us, she could recite the Scriptures but could not apply them to everyday living. Before the year was out, the husband had filed for divorce.Women who focus on civil rights or community activism have vigorous, fighting spirits and are prepared to do whatever, whenever, to benefit black people. That's good. That's necessary. But it needs to be kept in perspective. It's too easy to save the world and lose your man.



A fighting spirit is important on the battlefield, but a gentler spirit is wanted on the home front. Too many women are winning the battle and losing the home. Sometimes in our determined efforts to be strong believers and hard workers, we contemporary women downplay, denigra te or simply forget our more traditional feminine attributes. Men value women best for the ways we are different from them, not the ways we are the same. Men appreciate us for our grace and beauty. Men enjoy our softness and see it as a way to be in touch with their tender side, a side they dare not show to other men. A hard-working woman is good to have on your committee. But when a man goes home, he'd prefer a loving partner to a hard worker.



It's not an easy transition for the modern black woman to make. It sounds submissive, reactionary,outmoded, and oppressive. We have fought so hard for so many things, and rightfully so. We have known so many men who were shaky, jive and untrustworthy. Yet we must admit that we are shaky, jive and willful in our own ways. Not having a husband allows us to do whatever we want, when and how we want to do it. Having one means we have to share the power and certain points will have to be surrendered. We are terrified of marriage and commitment, yet dread the prospect of being single and alone.



Throwing ourselves into work seems to fill the void without posing a threat. But like any other drug, the escape eventually becomes the cage. To make the break, we need to do less and "be" more. I am learning to "be still and know," to be trusting. I am learning to stop competing with black men and to collaborate with them, to temper my assertive and aggressive energy with softness and serenity. I'm not preaching a philosophy of "women be seen and not heard." But I have come to realize that I, and many of my smart and independent sisters are out of touch with our feminine center and therefore out of touch with our men. About a year ago, I was at an oldies-but-goodies club. As a Washingtonian, love to do the bop and to hand dance styles that were popular when I was a teen. In those dances, the man has his set of steps and the woman has hers, but the couple is still two partners and must move together. On this evening, I was sitting out a record when a thought came to me.



If a man were to say, "I'm going to be in charge and you're going to follow. I want you to adjust your ways to fit in with mine" I'd dismiss him as a Neanderthal. With my hand on my hip, I'd tell him that I have just as much sense as he does and that he can't tell me what to do. Yet, on the dance floor, I love following a man's lead. I don't feel inferior because my part is different from his, and I don't feel I have to prove that I'm just as able to lead as he is. I simply allow him to take my hand, and I go with the flow.



I am still single. I am over 30 and scared. I am still a member of my church, have no plans to quit my good government job and will continue to do what I can for my people. I think that I have a healthy relationship with a good man. But today, I know that I have to bring some of that spirit of the dance into my relationship. Dancing solo, I've mastered that. Now I'm learning how to accept his lead, and to go with the flow.



Written by: Joy Jones.Joy Jones is a third generation teacher, a playwright
"I find, in being black, a thing of "beauty"; like a joy; a strength; a secret cup of gladness." Beauty Ossie Davis
Original Post
if being strong and independent begets manlessness, then its not just a black woman thing. it's just a woman thing in general. it's documented that the more education you have (women), the less likely it is that you will be married. so it doesnt suprise me that the stronger you are as a woman, the more difficult it is for men to deal with you. i could make a bunch of comments about how pitiful it is that a woman needs to be submissive for a man to deal with her. but i'd just be beating my head against a brick wall. i'm really tired of doing that, and i'm sure it's the reason for those massive migraines i get. . .so, the bottom line is this:

we live in a patriarchy. that simple. if anyone wanted to debate that point they have only to look at the facts. a strong woman has a harder time getting and keeping a man. so what women need to learn is how to turn that shit on and off. and how to make it work for them. there's a thousand ways to get what you want and compromise without yelling and dominating and pushing. traditionally, a woman learned to do things covertly as not to bruise a man's ego. since women's lib, this art is lost and labeled as manipulative. but see what happens when a woman is forthright with her personal needs and strengths? it's simply a different way of getting things done, since we live in a patriarchy. just like we have to learn to get along in a white world., so we must learn to get along in a man's world.

sisters need to get alittle more "clever" when it comes to relationships. make a request gently, or with a compliment. sometimes, it's all in the tone. learn that pampering your man is likely to lead to him pamapering you. the less we act like we don't need them, the more they'll take care of us. don't fake like you're stupid, but learn to temper your pride with wisdom and grace.

our mommas were so busy teaching us how to be independent that they didnt teach us how to be in a relationship. look at women who are successful in relationships and do what they do.

believe me when i say that i don't agree with the fact that men can't deal with us on the level they should. i don't think that it's right that we should jump through these hoops. but no matter how strong we are, we as women need to connect and many of us need to have families. so make a choice. you can stay strong independent chick or you can learn to use your God given feminine skills (empathy, discretion, multitasking, gentleness), to get and keep what you need.

strength is not just knowing how to live alone, it's knowing how to live with someone and share your life.
quote:
Originally posted by little minx:
...there's a thousand ways to get what you want and compromise without yelling and dominating and pushing. traditionally, a woman learned to do things covertly as not to bruise a man's ego. since women's lib, this art is lost and labeled as manipulative. but see what happens when a woman is forthright with her personal needs and strengths? it's simply a different way of getting things done, since we live in a patriarchy. just like we have to learn to get along in a white world., so we must learn to get along in a man's world.

sisters need to get alittle more "clever" when it comes to relationships. make a request gently, or with a compliment. sometimes, it's all in the tone. learn that pampering your man is likely to lead to him pamapering you. the less we act like we don't need them, the more they'll take care of us. don't fake like you're stupid, but learn to temper your pride with wisdom and grace.

our mommas were so busy teaching us how to be independent that they didnt teach us how to be in a relationship. look at women who are successful in relationships and do what they do.

believe me when i say that i don't agree with the fact that men can't deal with us on the level they should. i don't think that it's right that we should jump through these hoops. but no matter how strong we are, we as women need to connect and many of us need to have families. so make a choice. you can stay strong independent chick or you can learn to use your God given feminine skills (empathy, discretion, multitasking, gentleness), to get and keep what you need.



very astute analysis, IMO.

and we as brothas, ought to be doing the same things -- complimentary in our speech, pampering her ego, etc. I've always felt that "mutual affection gives each their share."

We as a people have gotten so far away from what relationships should naturally be about, it's sometimes surprising to see it articulated.
quote:
Originally posted by Tre:
What do y'all think of this theory?

ConfusedJust sending it out....



Are Black Women Scaring Off Their Men?



The Washington Post

By: Joy Jones



Have you met this woman? She has a good job, works hard, and earns a good salary. She went to college, she got her master's degree; she is intelligent. She is personable, articulate, well read, interested in everybody and everything Yet, she's single.



Or maybe you know this one. Active in the church. Faithful, committed, sings in the choir, serves on the usher board, and attends every committee meeting. Loves the Lord and knows the Word. You'd think that with her command of the Scriptures and the respect of her church members, she'd have a marriage as solid as a rock. But again, no husband.



Or perhaps you recognize the community activist. She's a black lady, or, as she prefers, an African American woman, on the move. She sports A short natural; sometimes cornrow braids, or even dreadlocks.She's an organizer, a motivator, a dynamo. Her work for her people speaks for itself--organizing women for a self-help, raising funds for A community cause, educating others around a new issue in South Africa. Black folks look up to her, and white folks know she's a force to be reckoned with. Yet once again, the men leave her alone.



What do these women have in common? They have so much; what is it they lack? Why is it they may be able to hook a man but can't hold him? The women puzzle over this quandary themselves. They gather at professional clubs, at sorority meetings or over coffee at the office and wonder what's wrong with black men? They hold special prayer vigils and fast and pray and beg Jesus to send the men back to church. They find the brothers attending political strategizing sessions or participating in protests but when it comes time to go home, the brothers go home to someone else.



I know these women because I am all of these women. And after asking over and over again "What's wrong with these men?", it finally dawned on me to ask the question, "What's wrong with us women?" What I have found, and what many of these women have yet to discover, is that the skills that make one successful in the church, community or workplace are

not the skills that make one successful in a relationship.



Linear thinking, self-reliance, structured goals and direct action assist one in getting assignments done, in organizing church or club activities or in positioning oneself for a raise, but relationship- building requires different skills. It requires making decisions that not only gratify you, but satisfy others. It means doing things that will keep the peace rather than achieve the goal, and sometimes it means creating the peace in the first place. Maintaining a harmonious relationship will not always allow you to take the straight line between two points. You may have to stoop to conquer or yield to win.



In too many cases, when dealing with men, you will have to sacrifice being right in order to enjoy being loved. Being acknowledged as the head of the household is an especially important thing for many black men, since their manhood is so often actively challenged everywhere else. Many modern women are so independent, so self-sufficient, so committed to the cause, to the church, to career or their narrow concepts that their entire personalities project an "I don't need a man" message. So they end up without one. An interested man may be attracted but he soon discovers that this sister makes very little space for him in her life. Going to graduate school is a good goal and an option that previous generations of blacks have not had. But sometimes the achieving woman will place her boyfriend so low on her list of priorities that his interest wanes. Between work, school and homework, she's seldom "there" for him, for the preliminaries that might develop a commitment to a woman. ! She's too busy to prepare him a home-cooked meal or to be a listening ear for his concerns because she is so occupied with her own.



Soon he uses her only for uncommitted sex since to him she appears unavailable for anything else. Blind to the part she's playing in the problem, she ends up thinking, "Men only want one thing." And she decides she's better off with the degree than the friendship. When she's 45, she may wish she'd set different priorities while she was younger. It's not just the busy career girl who can't see the forest for the trees.



A couple I know were having marital troubles. During one argument, the husband confronted the wife and asked what she thought they should do about the marriage, what direction they should take. She reached for her Bible and turned to Ephesians. "I know what Paul says and I know what Jesus says about marriage," he told her, "What do you say about our

marriage?" Dumbfounded, she could not say anything. Like so many of us, she could recite the Scriptures but could not apply them to everyday living. Before the year was out, the husband had filed for divorce.Women who focus on civil rights or community activism have vigorous, fighting spirits and are prepared to do whatever, whenever, to benefit black people. That's good. That's necessary. But it needs to be kept in perspective. It's too easy to save the world and lose your man.



A fighting spirit is important on the battlefield, but a gentler spirit is wanted on the home front. Too many women are winning the battle and losing the home. Sometimes in our determined efforts to be strong believers and hard workers, we contemporary women downplay, denigra te or simply forget our more traditional feminine attributes. Men value women best for the ways we are different from them, not the ways we are the same. Men appreciate us for our grace and beauty. Men enjoy our softness and see it as a way to be in touch with their tender side, a side they dare not show to other men. A hard-working woman is good to have on your committee. But when a man goes home, he'd prefer a loving partner to a hard worker.



It's not an easy transition for the modern black woman to make. It sounds submissive, reactionary,outmoded, and oppressive. We have fought so hard for so many things, and rightfully so. We have known so many men who were shaky, jive and untrustworthy. Yet we must admit that we are shaky, jive and willful in our own ways. Not having a husband allows us to do whatever we want, when and how we want to do it. Having one means we have to share the power and certain points will have to be surrendered. We are terrified of marriage and commitment, yet dread the prospect of being single and alone.



Throwing ourselves into work seems to fill the void without posing a threat. But like any other drug, the escape eventually becomes the cage. To make the break, we need to do less and "be" more. I am learning to "be still and know," to be trusting. I am learning to stop competing with black men and to collaborate with them, to temper my assertive and aggressive energy with softness and serenity. I'm not preaching a philosophy of "women be seen and not heard." But I have come to realize that I, and many of my smart and independent sisters are out of touch with our feminine center and therefore out of touch with our men. About a year ago, I was at an oldies-but-goodies club. As a Washingtonian, love to do the bop and to hand dance styles that were popular when I was a teen. In those dances, the man has his set of steps and the woman has hers, but the couple is still two partners and must move together. On this evening, I was sitting out a record when a thought came to me.



If a man were to say, "I'm going to be in charge and you're going to follow. I want you to adjust your ways to fit in with mine" I'd dismiss him as a Neanderthal. With my hand on my hip, I'd tell him that I have just as much sense as he does and that he can't tell me what to do. Yet, on the dance floor, I love following a man's lead. I don't feel inferior because my part is different from his, and I don't feel I have to prove that I'm just as able to lead as he is. I simply allow him to take my hand, and I go with the flow.



I am still single. I am over 30 and scared. I am still a member of my church, have no plans to quit my good government job and will continue to do what I can for my people. I think that I have a healthy relationship with a good man. But today, I know that I have to bring some of that spirit of the dance into my relationship. Dancing solo, I've mastered that. Now I'm learning how to accept his lead, and to go with the flow.



Written by: Joy Jones.Joy Jones is a third generation teacher, a playwright


i believe this article was posted, discussed and ripped apart before on here. tfro
Whether we live in a man's world or not is not the point...

If a Man is a Man, will he REALLY be intimidated by ANY Woman, whether she has education or not? It seems to me that the decent Men I know aren't pissed off because some of us sista's bothered to improve upon ourselves. Any Man who's a real Man will see that as an asset and not a detriment; to himself and to Our Community.

I don't believe in having to Dumb Down; for anybody or anything. If somebody can't take you where you are, you're in the wrong circle of people and the dude you're speaking to just ain't for you. Knowing how to stroke an ego DOES NOT mean we need to engage in bullshit.

Let's just be real - I can tell a man everything I appreciate about him without trying to get something from him and if I need something, I better be Woman enough to ask forthright, verses playing the slick snake role...lest he find out about my tactics and hate the hell out of me later; hence the phrases: Slick Mofo and Manipulative Ho....lmao.

My education should never intimidate the brotha who's looking to build; especially because I went after that education to help my community do just that: build. What should be scary to a Black Man is a Woman who feels she needs weasel her way into his life, his heart, his wallet, etc... Hell, if she can do that, shouldn't he be prepared to sleep with one eye open?

I'm sorry, but I would hope that my potential Man would ReSpect me enough to want me to be who I am, versus some replica of a 1950's robot Woman...."Yes dear...no dear...ANYTHING YOU SAY DEAR!"...and I would hope that he would be comfortable enough to tell me what's on his mind as well...
This would be an unfortunate thing for black men to admit would it not? To be afraid of their own women?

Every man on the planet elevates his woman in some measure.... if Black men admit that they find no comfort in their women, then this would be more indicative of their inability to produce an environment that sustains the beauty of their women for their benefit than it would any character defaults in the women.....

Real men don't reject their own kind.... to do so would be to reject their lineage... their future...

It's suicide....

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