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quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
The first image is an example of the type of woman that Black men seek to marry. The second image is example of the type of woman that Black men avoid. Someone made the argument that because Black people are not the majority in America that we should expect to see overwhelming images of White beauty. But what accounts for the negative images of Black women? What accounts for the negative images of Black men? And just to show you how bad the situation is. An African-American woman who is a member of an African-American forum acknowleges the beauty found in her own race and that made some people uncomfortable! So this is a very serious problem. We cannot afford to dismiss this problem as something that we simply have to "shut out and get over." Images are very powerful. They always have been and they always will be.

Our children are influenced by the media also, and not just in the area of beauty and appearance. Media also influences what children (and adults) consider "good food." A lot of what the media passes off as "food" is really not. Americans are literally eating toxic waste each day because powerful images in the form of commercials and advertisments imbibe into their minds that such foods are acceptable to eat.


"Someone made the argument that because Black people are not the majority in America that we should expect to see overwhelming images of White beauty. But what accounts for the negative images of Black women?"

Get. To. It. ohsnap
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
The media tells me that ultra-thin women are beautiful, but I find them sickly. Physically, I'm attracted to healthy women. Too fat, or too thin, or too anything for that matter, is a turn off for me. I've been that way my whole life, regardless of what the media tells me every day. I know what beauty is without the media having to tell me. Why isn't it the same for you women? Why is it so hard for you to ignore?


African-American men, like most men who are under the influence of Western culture, have been more affected by Western standards of beauty than they are willing to acknowledge and admit. Despite Black men's sustaining interest in full-figured women, even today, Black men will find themselves attracted to Black women whose appearance is closer to Western ideals of beauty (e.g., chemically-processed straightened hair, very light, tan, or brown skin, biracial features, etc.) Typically, these are women that Black men, right along with White men, will find attractive versus the Black woman whose hair is tightly-curled and/or course and very dark-skinned. I remember when Sister Daniella first posted an image of herself on the forum. As expected, she began to receive a slew of messages from men, even men who rarely post at all, suddenly came out of nowhere just to pay her a compliment on how "fine" she was (which is ok), but don't tell me about how "unaffected" Black men are by the media. Please. You all, just like the rest of us, are BRAINWASHED into accepting and believing that these kinds of images are what is attractive. Here is an example of an image that is most favored by Black men:




I've been told, that i talk about these issues constantly.....and nothing else. So i'll chime in, and move on.

Rowe.......your comment here, was on point!

Its amazing to hear, black men justify this behavior. Its like getting your hand caught in the cookie jar, and pulling back when youre caught.

Its also really hard to stomach black men, craving these type of women.............while bitching about black women.

Im so done!!

*walks out, door slams*
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
The media tells me that ultra-thin women are beautiful, but I find them sickly. Physically, I'm attracted to healthy women. Too fat, or too thin, or too anything for that matter, is a turn off for me. I've been that way my whole life, regardless of what the media tells me every day. I know what beauty is without the media having to tell me. Why isn't it the same for you women? Why is it so hard for you to ignore?


African-American men, like most men who are under the influence of Western culture, have been more affected by Western standards of beauty than they are willing to acknowledge and admit. Despite Black men's sustaining interest in full-figured women, even today, Black men will find themselves attracted to Black women whose appearance is closer to Western ideals of beauty (e.g., chemically-processed straightened hair, very light, tan, or brown skin, biracial features, etc.) Typically, these are women that Black men, right along with White men, will find attractive versus the Black woman whose hair is tightly-curled and/or course and very dark-skinned. I remember when Sister Daniella first posted an image of herself on the forum. As expected, she began to receive a slew of messages from men, even men who rarely post at all, suddenly came out of nowhere just to pay her a compliment on how "fine" she was (which is ok), but don't tell me about how "unaffected" Black men are by the media. Please. You all, just like the rest of us, are BRAINWASHED into accepting and believing that these kinds of images are what is attractive. Here is an example of an image that is most favored by Black men:



So have black women also been brainwashed to not only accept western standards of beauty but also western notions of

1) religion? (sistas are "too blessed to be stressed" and want you too to "have a blessed day")
2) 'success'?
3) material possessions?
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quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
So have black women also been brainwashed to not only accept western standards of beauty but also western notions of

1) religion?
2) 'success'?
3) material possessions?


Brother, you are about to witness more side-stepping & evasion on answering your question than Barry Sanders in his prime! laugh

The irony of Rowe's remarks in this thread are that she has discussed White men, their habits & fashion as things she wished more Black men would adopt. Several times! Roll Eyes
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
So have black women also been brainwashed to not only accept western standards of beauty but also western notions of

1) religion?
2) 'success'?
3) material possessions?


The irony of Rowe's remarks in this thread are that she has discussed White men, their habits & fashion as things she wished more Black men would adopt. Several times! Roll Eyes


You're right .... She most certainly has.... and I also believe that when someone suggested in Issues and Politics that black women were brainwashed by Western standards of beauty (particularly in regards to hair straightening) someone(s) .... ahem .... had a fit...
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quote:
Originally posted by qty226:
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
The media tells me that ultra-thin women are beautiful, but I find them sickly. Physically, I'm attracted to healthy women. Too fat, or too thin, or too anything for that matter, is a turn off for me. I've been that way my whole life, regardless of what the media tells me every day. I know what beauty is without the media having to tell me. Why isn't it the same for you women? Why is it so hard for you to ignore?


African-American men, like most men who are under the influence of Western culture, have been more affected by Western standards of beauty than they are willing to acknowledge and admit. Despite Black men's sustaining interest in full-figured women, even today, Black men will find themselves attracted to Black women whose appearance is closer to Western ideals of beauty (e.g., chemically-processed straightened hair, very light, tan, or brown skin, biracial features, etc.) Typically, these are women that Black men, right along with White men, will find attractive versus the Black woman whose hair is tightly-curled and/or course and very dark-skinned. I remember when Sister Daniella first posted an image of herself on the forum. As expected, she began to receive a slew of messages from men, even men who rarely post at all, suddenly came out of nowhere just to pay her a compliment on how "fine" she was (which is ok), but don't tell me about how "unaffected" Black men are by the media. Please. You all, just like the rest of us, are BRAINWASHED into accepting and believing that these kinds of images are what is attractive. Here is an example of an image that is most favored by Black men:




I've been told, that i talk about these issues constantly.....and nothing else. So i'll chime in, and move on.

Rowe.......your comment here, was on point!

Its amazing to hear, black men justify this behavior. Its like getting your hand caught in the cookie jar, and pulling back when youre caught.

Its also really hard to stomach black men, craving these type of women.............while bitching about black women.

Im so done!!

*walks out, door slams*

You know... I really regret posting on this thread. I should have just left it alone. When I approach these subjects, I always come in with kid gloves because I understand that these are women's issues, and my grasp of them is slim at best. But, whenever I do that, you girls go completely batty.

None of you ever actually read what is written. You only read what fits into assumtions you've already made and then ignore the rest, or read way too far into it. Then, you go off on a tirade that has nothing to do with the question I asked. Why do I even bother?

Whatever... I'm done.

*walks out, door slams*
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:

You know... I really regret posting on this thread. I should have just left it alone. When I approach these subjects, I always come in with kid gloves because I understand that these are women's issues, and my grasp of them is slim at best. But, whenever I do that, you girls go completely batty.

None of you ever actually read what is written. You only read what fits into assumtions you've already made and then ignore the rest, or read way too far into it. Then, you go off on a tirade that has nothing to do with the question I asked. Why do I even bother?

Whatever... I'm done.

*walks out, door slams*



Yes... this behavior is typical... they assume they're experts on us... and that we know nothing about them... it's irritating isn't it?

Then when somebody says something like "black women don't listen" then they get the "black women don't listen to you"...
Black Viking....

Im sorry, i was really concentrating on how 'i' felt as a black woman, and who black men find beautiful.

I wasnt trying to ignore your question..... Frown

You spoke of weight.....and i commented on the hue of a black womans skin.

I know both black men/women have issues, and none of us are without fault, in all of this.

I just spoke on whats hurtful to me......

I'll say no more.


I've always enjoyed your posts. So please continue. ther
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
In case this was missed:


quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:

And these images ARE attractive... That doesn't mean that other women aren't attractive...

Yes, we think Daniella is attractive ... but we also think qty226 is attractive ...

Not that many women here post their pics in their avatars...



Yeah i missed it.......

kiss

Thanks HB, that really put a big smile on my face. kiss
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
You're right .... She most certainly has.... and I also believe that when someone suggested in Issues and Politics that black women were brainwashed by Western standards of beauty (particularly in regards to hair straightening) someone(s) .... ahem .... had a fit...


Brother Honestbrother, you must have skipped over my opening comments about how inhaling chemicals from straightening is harzardous to both the stylist and the client. You must have also skipped over my explanations for why I refuse to chemically straighten my own hair. And as the conversation became more intense, someone even joined the thread charging me with attacking women who do straighten their hair! Lastly, those who followed the discussion, closely, know that my "fit" was not over Brother Shango's interest in discussing Western culture's influence over Black women's stlying choices, but his inflammatory comments, verbal abuse, and ignorant-acting behavior.
Last edited {1}
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
So have black women also been brainwashed to not only accept western standards of beauty but also western notions of

1) religion? (sistas are "too blessed to be stressed" and want you too to "have a blessed day")
2) 'success'?
3) material possessions?


1) In my opinion, African people did not learn to become religious and/or spiritual by being under the influence of Western culture. African people were religious long before they were transported to this country. Historically, believing in God is something that African people have always taken seriously.

2) Yes! Both Black women and men have been influenced by Western conceptions of success.

3)Yes! Both Black women and men have been influenced by White America's obsession with accumulating material possessions and goods.

In all areas of life, except perhaps religion, Black people, much like the rest of the colonized world of nonwhites, have been heavily influenced by Western culture and ideals.
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
Yes... this behavior is typical... they assume they're experts on us... and that we know nothing about them... it's irritating isn't it?


I believe the original question, asked by Brother Viking, was to us. Basically, he wanted to know how is it that Black men can seemingly "ignore" the bombardment of White images of beauty disseminated by the media and Black women cannot. But I'm sorry to inform him that this is simply not the case. The truth is, Black men are just as affected by these images as Black women.

I think it was Honestbrother who said that he avoids the media's influence by simply "turning off the television." This is a great thing to do, and I would definitely recommend it, especially children. However, I am certain that he did not start watching television just recently, and so if he was one of the millions of children in America who watches at least 4 hours of television daily, then the damage of media's powerful influence has already been done.

According to The American Society of Pediatrics, the average child in America sees more than 20,000 commercials each year. Commercials are quick, fast-paced, and entertaining. And after seeing the same commercials and images over and over, a child can easily remember an image, song, slogan, or catchy phrase. Of course as we become older, we begin to understand how ads use pictures, music, and sound to entertain, but again, by then, the iamges of beauty have already been firmly planted. So much so that we can't even consciously acknowledge our preference for some people and not others.
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quote:
Originally posted by qty226:
I've been told, that i talk about these issues constantly.....and nothing else. So i'll chime in, and move on.

Rowe.......your comment here, was on point!

Its amazing to hear, black men justify this behavior. Its like getting your hand caught in the cookie jar, and pulling back when youre caught.

Its also really hard to stomach black men, craving these type of women.............while bitching about black women.

Im so done!!

*walks out, door slams*


Sister, you don't have to move on anywhere. Say what you wish and be confident about it. Smile We all have a right to express our views and opinions on this forum. But now that this thread is winding down to a close, to be honest, I don't think Sister Daniella's comments had anytyhing to do with her being biracial. I just think that Daniella has a pluralistic and politically-correct view about what should be acknowledged as "beautiful." She feels that attributes of "beauty" should not be associated with just one group only. And that's OK. On an African-American forum, we sometimes take for granted that everyone shares our same values, but she just reminded us that they do not.
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quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:

1) In my opinion, African people did not learn to become religious and/or spiritual by being under the influence of Western culture. African people were religious long before they were transported to this country. Historically, believing in God is something that African people have always taken seriously.


We did not have all that Jesus and the utter dermination to force him on everything and everyone around us.

Black people have gotten the worst forms of Western religious fanaticism... And black women are particularly bit by this bug... a Jewish god nailed to a tree is their ideal man - which does NOT bode well for the rest of us...

You do not see Africans sending goddamned missionaries to the other side of the world to spread Orisha worship... we did not get this from Africa... puhlease....
Rowe I agree with everything you posted...

That is very kind of you to not continue 'attacking' Dizzy as I did... but people that think like her, reguardless of their ethnic makeup NEED to have their ideas attacked more often. Too often they can state such nonsense without being challenged. You know what I look like. I'm probably lighter than her, but I'm not self absorbed enough to think that a thread on the appreciation of Black beauty(a.k.a. African features) is not needed, because it is...heck, alot more than a thread is needed! It is all too obvious to anyone who chooses to look around and be honest that the female African phenotype is the most disrespected/least valued by this society...and that is somewhat expected, considering we live in a Western/white supremacist/patriarchial run society ... How that effects everyone, especially the quality of life for those it injures most, African/Black Bantu looking women... is of utmost importance, first off because it is anti-human to have any other reaction, and secondly because that is the appearance of the MASSES of Black/African women globally. I commend you for your sensitivity towards Dizzy's possible 'issues', but honestly, I think she needs to hear the truth.

It seems to always be the one with colour issues who are the ones that screem 'everyone is beautiful." This ish gets on me last nerve.

...and I would also add in response to the male posters that "the media" is not just TV, It is also the print media, newspapers and magazines, billboards and posters, so there is NO WAY to avoid the images that this system pushes, you can't turn thoughs things 'off'.
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
It seems to always be the one with colour issues who are the ones that screem 'everyone is beautiful."


Okay well sister you and I both know that while everyone might be beautiful, there is only one group of people whose "beauty" takes precedence. This is why it is up to us to discuss these matters and supply folks with diverse images of beauty because those who have fallen victim to the "color blind" rhetoric will certainly not.

quote:
...and I would also add in response to the male posters that "the media" is not just TV, it is also the print media, newspapers and magazines, billboards and posters, so there is NO WAY to avoid the images that this system pushes, you can't turn thoughs things 'off'.


thanks
I hate everything read on this post. Why? Because most of you are measuring Black Beauty by a Black American afrocentric people and West Africans. Example
Deep Mahogany Skin
Natural Kinky hair
Full lips
Rounder behind
Wider nose.
The question is East African look nothing like this. Yet they are consider the oldest Africans on Earth. Most of them look like.
Light brown to Olive Skin
Wavy to Straight hair
Thin lips
Pointy noses.
None of you mention this at all. I would have to say most of you have a one view point of what Black beauty is. Your view point is mostly what West Africans think is beautiful. Not whole Africa.

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