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quote:
Originally posted by MidLifeMan:
Very Beautiful. Who is she?


I'm a beautiful sister, however, this is a photo taken from the collection of African models that I keep on my computer. For what its worth, my astrological sign is "Libra," and librans are known to have a strong appreciation for beauty.
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It sadens me that we don't see and/or appreciate this kind of beauty more often. Who determines what is "ugly?"

Where have all the Black models gone? - a supermodel analyzes racist factors in several industries that impact jobs in the media and fashion modeling industry
by Veronica Webb

In the fall of 1994, I shared the cover of YSB with Black male model Clayton Hunter and with Roshumba, who had been featured in the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue three years in a row. I, like more than a few other Black models, would consider the middle of the decade a prime time for us. Our popularity may have had much to do with a flood of media stories indicating that racial and ethnic groups would outnumber Whites by the middle of the twenty-first century.

The fashion, publishing and advertising worlds--the institutions where our desires and dreams are synthesized and sold back to us--were clearly taking notice and action.

More Black models began to grace the pages of fashion magazines, both in advertisement and editorial layouts, and Naomi Campbell's star was shooting into the stratosphere as she clocked a stunning number of covers. In Milan, where runway-show trends begin (because the first international showings are held there each season), Riccardo Gay Model Management had 12 to 16 Black women on the roster for fashion shows. In fact, every show I worked from 1992 to the first season of 1995 had at least seven or eight Black models. Considering that a show usually features 20 or so models, we had an impressive 35- to 40-percent representation. Things really got exciting in 1995, when Tyson Beckford snagged an exclusive contract as the face for top designer Ralph Lauren. Tyson went on last year to be named Male Model of the Year by VH1.

Fast forward to 1996... When the year came in, we went out. Today there is only one Black female model I know of with a major cosmetics contract: Tyra Banks for Cover Girl. As of this writing, Riccardo Gay in Milan has only six Black models in working rotation. And from the Italian runways to the French fashion scene to the catwalks in New York City, there has been a worldwide trend to exclude Black models from fashion shows. Only a few shows for the fall 1996 season included a Black face, and even then in several cases that face could have been mistaken for White. The result: Magazines and newspapers--many of which use pictures from runway shows throughout the year--will have few chances to include us in their pages. And, as it is, we are seldom the focal point of the main fashion layouts in general-market publications. Clearly the Black model is the subject of a damaging and demeaning "disappearing act."

"God made everybody exactly the way She wanted them to be!"
-Singer Rachelle Farrell, Individuality
quote:
Originally posted by Sweetwuzzy:

I don't get it. Confused Confused What bothers you about this thread????

Would you rather have articles about desperate black women looking for black men and bitching over and over again???--- never mind, I know the answer.


Nahhh...there are no pics in this thread with black women.......bent over, with their butt cheeks all over the place.

Roll Eyes

Ohh and before one of you brothas calls me a hata......thats one thing im NOT!

I can hold my own...........trust!! Razz
quote:
Originally posted by Sweetwuzzy:
quote:
Originally posted by RadioRaheem:



I don't get it. Confused Confused What bothers you about this thread????

Would you rather have articles about desperate black women looking for black men and bitching over and over again???--- never mind, I know the answer.


nope, I am just waiting for Rowe to answer my questions about why she has to tell men what beauty is. I pondered if it was a self-esteem problem that she had. She has yet to reply, but returned to this board to do this thread. I hope she is working on that answers to my inquiries. Smile
quote:
Originally posted by qty226:
quote:
Originally posted by Sweetwuzzy:

I don't get it. Confused Confused What bothers you about this thread????

Would you rather have articles about desperate black women looking for black men and bitching over and over again???--- never mind, I know the answer.


Nahhh...there are no pics in this thread with black women.......bent over, with their butt cheeks all over the place.

Roll Eyes

Ohh and before one of you brothas calls me a hata......thats one thing im NOT!

I can hold my own...........trust!! Razz


not true. As you know, I have more than enough of those thread that I started myself. I was responding to Rowe's posting in another thread.
quote:
Originally posted by RadioRaheem:
nope, I am just waiting for Rowe to answer my questions about why she has to tell men what beauty is. I pondered if it was a self-esteem problem that she had. She has yet to reply, but returned to this board to do this thread. I hope she is working on that answers to my inquiries. Smile


I think it just may have something to do with this RadioRaheem...

http://africanamerica.org/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/40070883/m/5661057663

BTW these sisters are extra beautiful, but I can only imagine how much better loooking they would be with their natural hair texture...
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
Sudanese Beauty, Clara Benjamin, by way of London. Clara is a top model who has appeared in Vogue, and many haute couture fashion shows. She is the most sought after for her full pouty lips and distinctive African features.


emphasis mine

There were some African models in a documentary who were talking about how very excited they were when African became popular in Western shows.

But it turned out that although the most outspoken is from a small tribe and unmixed, she had nothing but complaints about their searches.

It turned out that the Western agencies didn't find these African women "African enough." laugh
This is an African-American forum, and so I think celebrating our beauty is appropriate. Hence, the topic title Appreciating Black Beauty. We see evidence of European-Americans appreciating the beauty of White women all the time yet when Black people acknowledge the beauty represented in our community, we're being "ignorant?" Explain this.
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quote:
Originally posted by Dizzy_Daniella:
How is it any different to say that 'black women are the most beautiful women in the world' than it was for Eugen Fischer to claim that white Germans were "the supreme race"?...


How about this...Black women are the most beautiful women in the world because we go through the most, more than any other women on the planet, so therefore our characters are the strongest and most beautiful. In traditional Africa, the concept of beauty is NEVER seperated from one's character.

The more African a women's features are the less the beauty it is acknowledged, a little self agrandizing from us should be tolerated considering how disrespected African features are globally under white supremacy.

I would questions one's motives who is quick to criticize such self agrandizing when I don't see them attacking the white beauty standard(but rather taking actions to comply to it) or white supremacy in general.
I just think it's the media that choose to promote more European features....if your personal preference is to go out with Africans, or darker skinned women than you can do so. Women everyday go through hardships black, white, mixed, whatever so don't play the only black women work hard card its doesn't work. If I think someone is wrong I will stand up and what was said was wrong yes, you can appreciate black beauty go ahead, but don't go saying comments that actually don't make sense... to me I would of done the same if someone had said white women are the best. Its just plain ignorance. Like I said all races have beauty.

All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
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quote:
Originally posted by Dizzy_Daniella:
You can appreciate black beauty go ahead, but don't go saying comments that actually don't make sense... to me I would of done the same if someone had said white women are the best. Its just plain ignorance. Like I said all races have beauty.


And appreciating Black beauty is all we've done here sister. There was no mention of Black people, or Black women, being the most of anything. Therefore I am a little concerned about why you are becoming so incredibly defensive and argumentative about us, Black women, acknowledging and appreciating what is beautiful about us. Exactly part of this discussion do find so terribly offensive?: Black women acknowledging themselves as beautiful or Black women not acknowledging that other women are beautiful too?

Whatever the case may be, I do not need to acknowlege and/or appreciate the beauty of other women, if I do not want to. I do what I want to do. And even if I believed that Black women are the most beautiful women on the planet (which I do), that is a perception that belongs to me, not anyone else. If someone should have a problem with it, then that is their problem to solve.
No offence but are you blind? Someone just said black women go through the most so they are the most beautiful in the world? Did you not read that part? And someone also specifically said black women are the most beautiful in the world. Or did you also fail to read that bit also. I am also not being "incredibly" defensive but trying to state a point. But obviously you think I have some kind of vendetta, which I do not, like I said the statements which were said were false and I feel sorry for you if you only have a one opinion mind.
Dizzy Daniella.......

I really dont have a problem with any race, defining their women as beautiful. Its their right, to feel this way.

No one is as beautiful as my mom, aunts, sister, etc.....these are all black women that are not only beautiful on the outside........but they are equally as beautiful on the inside. (So to me, black women are the most beautiful!!)

With that being said........im not too sure if you understand, the perception has always been.......blond, hair, blue eyed women.....are the standard of beauty. This didnt happen yesterday!

This belief was pushed down our throats....partly due to racism. Black women were never considered beautiful.

I really think your issue should be with the media, fashion world, and those that continuously remind us that white women are the prettiest.

Youre a beautiful lady, but lets face it.......you are not the 'standard' of beauty either.

Do you understand?
Originally posted by Dizzy_Daniella:

No offence but are you blind? Someone just said black women go through the most so they are the most beautiful in the world?

---------------------

The thing is, historically (in this country), black women HAVE gone through more than any other race of women. . .this is true by virtue of our history here.

----------------------


Did you not read that part? And someone also specifically said black women are the most beautiful in the world.

---------------------

Someone 'specifically'... is entitled to their own OPINION--you simply cannot debate OPINION.

Personally, I think black men are the most HANDSOME of all races of men. Does that make me wrong? No, that makes it my 'personal' opinion...which is not up for debate.

I've had very close relationships with white men, there are definitely some nice looking white guys out there. . .however, this observation never changed my opinion of black men or their appeal to me. While I am attracted to men; period--black men are oooooh soooo very very attractive, imo (both physically & mentally). . .moreso than any other race of men.

Brothers have it going on...This is why so many women of all races (from what I've seen) flock to them like bees to honey.

This. . .of course. . .is just my opinion. Smile

--------------------------
Or did you also fail to read that bit also. I am also not being "incredibly" defensive but trying to state a point. But obviously you think I have some kind of vendetta, which I do not, like I said the statements which were said were false and I feel sorry for you if you only have a one opinion mind.

--------------------------

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder--it's not a matter of having an 'one opinion mind'. . .

. . .everyone is entitled to what 'they' consider 'beauty' regardless of whether this includes all races of women/men are not.

All things are not 'equal' when it comes to a person's perception of beauty, and it really doesn't have to be 'fair.'
Originally posted by Dizzy_Daniella:

How is it any different to say that 'black women are the most beautiful women in the world' than it was for Eugen Fischer to claim that white Germans were "the supreme race"?...
------------------

Saying that "black women" are the most beautiful women in the world is merely a personal opinion, or a stance. Obviously someone has 'made up' their mind in this area. You cannot prove the person's idea of beauty is 'incorrect'....again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Meanwhile, Eugen Fischer's claim that white Germans were "the supreme race" is an UNSUBSTANTIATED statement, which can be easily disproved & disputed via credible sources.
quote:
Originally posted by Dizzy_Daniella:
How is it any different to say that 'black women are the most beautiful women in the world' than it was for Eugen Fischer to claim that white Germans were "the supreme race"?...


APPRECIATING OUR OWN BEAUTY TO THE FULLEST IS ALONG THE LINES OF NAZISM? I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU ARE MIXED AND YOU DON'T WANT YOUR WHITE SIDE'S BEAUTY TO GET OVERSHADOWED BUT THIS IS AN AFRICAN AMERICAN FORUM AND SAYING WE ARE THE MOST BEAUTIFUL WOMEN WOULDN'T CLASSIFY AS NAZISM TO ME.

DO WHITE MAGAZINES WHO ONLY FEATURE "EUROCENTRIC" TYPE WOMEN AS THE ONLY IMAGE OF BEAUTY FOLLOW IN THE STEPS OF EUGEN FISCHER?
quote:
Originally posted by caribbeanflavored:
quote:
Originally posted by Dizzy_Daniella:
How is it any different to say that 'black women are the most beautiful women in the world' than it was for Eugen Fischer to claim that white Germans were "the supreme race"?...


APPRECIATING OUR OWN BEAUTY TO THE FULLEST IS ALONG THE LINES OF NAZISM? I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU ARE MIXED AND YOU DON'T WANT YOUR WHITE SIDE'S BEAUTY TO GET OVERSHADOWED BUT THIS IS AN AFRICAN AMERICAN FORUM AND SAYING WE ARE THE MOST BEAUTIFUL WOMEN WOULDN'T CLASSIFY AS NAZISM TO ME.

DO WHITE MAGAZINES WHO ONLY FEATURE "EUROCENTRIC" TYPE WOMEN AS THE ONLY IMAGE OF BEAUTY FOLLOW IN THE STEPS OF EUGEN FISCHER?



off

Where you been, sista? hat

Getting ready for Spelman? Smile

Please update us...
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
quote:
Originally posted by caribbeanflavored:
quote:
Originally posted by Dizzy_Daniella:
How is it any different to say that 'black women are the most beautiful women in the world' than it was for Eugen Fischer to claim that white Germans were "the supreme race"?...


APPRECIATING OUR OWN BEAUTY TO THE FULLEST IS ALONG THE LINES OF NAZISM? I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU ARE MIXED AND YOU DON'T WANT YOUR WHITE SIDE'S BEAUTY TO GET OVERSHADOWED BUT THIS IS AN AFRICAN AMERICAN FORUM AND SAYING WE ARE THE MOST BEAUTIFUL WOMEN WOULDN'T CLASSIFY AS NAZISM TO ME.

DO WHITE MAGAZINES WHO ONLY FEATURE "EUROCENTRIC" TYPE WOMEN AS THE ONLY IMAGE OF BEAUTY FOLLOW IN THE STEPS OF EUGEN FISCHER?



off

Where you been, sista? hat

Getting ready for Spelman? Smile

Please update us...


HI HB, I AM OFF TOPIC? OH WAIT, WAIT, YOU MEAN YOU. YEAH, I'VE BEEN FIGHTING WITH SPELMAN SO THEY COULD GIVE ME SOME DAMN MONEY! I WANT MY FINANCIAL AID NOW! Mad
quote:
Originally posted by Fabulous:
While I am attracted to men; period--black men are oooooh soooo very very attractive, imo (both physically & mentally). . .moreso than any other race of men.

Brothers have it going on...This is why so many women of all races (from what I've seen) flock to them like bees to honey.

This. . .of course. . .is just my opinion. Smile

kiss eyes rock

It's so refreshing to read a Sister who doesn't feel the need to give us a hard time... ALL the time.

quote:
All things are not 'equal' when it comes to a person's perception of beauty, and it really doesn't have to be 'fair.'

yeah
quote:
Originally posted by Fabulous:
Originally posted by Dizzy_Daniella:

How is it any different to say that 'black women are the most beautiful women in the world' than it was for Eugen Fischer to claim that white Germans were "the supreme race"?...
------------------

Saying that "black women" are the most beautiful women in the world is merely a personal opinion, or a stance. Obviously someone has 'made up' their mind in this area. You cannot prove the person's idea of beauty is 'incorrect'....again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Meanwhile, Eugen Fischer's claim that white Germans were "the supreme race" is an UNSUBSTANTIATED statement, which can be easily disproved & disputed via credible sources.

Fab's got a strong point here, Dizzy. Saying that a certain race of people are "beautiful", is a far cry from saying that a certain race of people are "supreme".
Originally posted by Black Viking:
Originally posted by Fabulous:

While I am attracted to men; period--black men are oooooh soooo very very attractive, imo (both physically & mentally). . .moreso than any other race of men.

Brothers have it going on...This is why so many women of all races (from what I've seen) flock to them like bees to honey.

This. . .of course. . .is just my opinion. Smile
-------------

kiss eyes rock

It's so refreshing to read a Sister who doesn't feel the need to give us a hard time... ALL the time.

---------------------------

Awwwww. . .thank you my brother {{{{Tight Sister hug}}}}}

. . .this sister is not tryna give her brothers a hard time--you are ALL unique in your own way. Those who deserve it--receive it. . .I'm a woman afterall. Smile

However, make no mistake my dear brother--brothers are LOVED. kiss
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dizzy_Daniella:
I just think it's the media that choose to promote more European features....


Oh, and the media has absolutely no influence on our personal preferences right? Please!

quote:
If your personal preference is to go out with Africans, or darker skinned women than you can do so.


First off, I'm a woman. I prefer African men of whatever shade, born wherever. Character is what's most important to me. BTW, you may not know it but you are an African too. I am a light skinned African in Amerikkka. I'm not delususional enough to think that I 'don't' get treated better than my darker sisters. I know I do, and it makes me sick. Anybody who is really for justice and truth would state reality. Dark skinned African women have it the hardest because we live in a society based on white supremacy. I know you might not want to give up your colour privalege, but if you were really all about this 'one love' Pollyanna crap you spew colourism should bother you... So when a thread comes along stating that Dark skinned African/Black women are beautifal you should have absolutely no objection...even though this thread didn't even specify shade. Dang, you got issues.

I'm with caribbeanflavored, I think because you are closer to what is considered the beauty standard(or at least attempting to make yourself appear as such), you aren't comfortable with Black/African beauty being praised. Get over yourself.

quote:
Women everyday go through hardships black, white, mixed, whatever so don't play the only black women work hard card its doesn't work.


Can you read? I didn't say anything about 'working hard'(although that could be argued too) I said that the more African your physical appearance as a women the less this society(global as it is, thanks to imperialism) holds up and/or appreciates your beauty.

quote:
If I think someone is wrong I will stand up and what was said was wrong yes, you can appreciate black beauty go ahead, but don't go saying comments that actually don't make sense...


Actually, I would give that suggestion to you dizzy. Stand up for what is right. Fagunwa was correct. The name fits.

quote:
to me I would of done the same if someone had said white women are the best. Its just plain ignorance. Like I said all races have beauty.


Yah, yah, yah, all people are beautiful, the humane part of me knows that, but the fact is that Black women DO go through the most socially, period. It's called oppression and exploitation. African people the world over are at the bottom of the social ladder because of the white supremacist caste system that slavery and colonization institutionalized to excuse the inhumane acts towards us. It's a fact you can't argue with. Our beauty is the least respected, which is a fact you can't argue with, look around and tell me it isn't true. Actually look in the mirror and do some soul searching.

quote:
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.


I don't know what planet you are on dizzy, the masses of the planet are born into a system that oppresses, exploits, and dehumanizes. Plenty of people are not 'free' plenty of people do not enjoy basic dignity or human rights. Pollyannas like you erk me.

It would be nice if one day the masses of humanity had brotherhood ect., but that is not how it is now, and pretending it is that way isn't going to make it that way anytime soon.

BTW, since everyone is so equally beautiful and every race's features are equally appreciated, why do you have a straight weave? I saw you avatar/photo...why are you trying to remove some of your 'Africaness' since we are all so lovely and the media doesn't effect our personal preferences? Why isn't your naturally nappy hair 'good enough' to wear? and don't give me that crap that it is just a 'style'.
"BTW, since everyone is so equally beautiful and every race's features are equally appreciated, why do you have a straight weave? I saw you avatar/photo...why are you trying to remove some of your 'Africaness' since we are all so lovely and the media doesn't effect our personal preferences? Why isn't your naturally nappy hair 'good enough' to wear? and don't give me that crap that it is just a 'style'."


yikes! Roll Eyes


I have family members who espouse similar rhetoric, and yet I often 'over hear' them talking about 'how black' someone is, or 'how bad'someone's hair is/was.
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
I think because you are closer to what is considered the beauty standard(or at least attempting to make yourself appear as such), you aren't comfortable with Black/African beauty being praised. Get over yourself.


I wanted to avoid discussing this topic further with Sister Daniella because I realize that for many biracial African-Americans, conceptions of beauty is a sensitive issue. Shortly after my last response to her, someone informed me about Daniella's biracial background, and then it became clear to me as to why this topic made her uncomfortable. We know that biracial children grow up being both praised and hated by both Blacks and Whites, specifically, for their skin complexion and hair texture, two characteristics over which they have no control. And as a biracial woman, to read someone praising the "Black side" of her racial makeup exclusively, may have been offensive. However, my purpose for starting this thread, and similar threads praising the beauty and accomplishments of Black women, is done only to shine a light on a segment of America's population that unfortunately gets very little, if any, positive attention and affirmation. For this reason, I will continue to start threads like these. However, I want to stress that these threads are not to mistaken as an attempt to dismiss the beauty and accomplishments of other women, but to show appreciation for the cultural/racial group to which I belong.
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quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:

BTW, since everyone is so equally beautiful and every race's features are equally appreciated, why do you have a straight weave? I saw you avatar/photo...why are you trying to remove some of your 'Africaness' since we are all so lovely and the media doesn't effect our personal preferences? Why isn't your naturally nappy hair 'good enough' to wear? and don't give me that crap that it is just a 'style'.


Interesting question.
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:

BTW, since everyone is so equally beautiful and every race's features are equally appreciated, why do you have a straight weave? I saw you avatar/photo...why are you trying to remove some of your 'Africaness' since we are all so lovely and the media doesn't effect our personal preferences? Why isn't your naturally nappy hair 'good enough' to wear? and don't give me that crap that it is just a 'style'.


Interesting question.


that's like the same question i asked her... how come african beauty is never appreciated in the mainstream media but we're supposed to believe that we're all equally beautiful.
quote:
Originally posted by caribbeanflavored:
how come african beauty is never appreciated in the mainstream media but we're supposed to believe that we're all equally beautiful.

Okay ladies, I have a question about this. I understand that mainstream media is powerful, but I've never felt that it controlled what I considered to be beautiful, or what I was attracted to. The media tells me that ultra-thin women are beautiful, but I find them sickly. Physically, I'm attracted to healthy women. Too fat, or too thin, or too anything for that matter, is a turn off for me. I've been that way my whole life, regardless of what the media tells me every day. I know what beauty is without the media having to tell me. Why isn't it the same for you women?

The other thing about the media, is that they are catering to the masses... and that ain't us! We're only 13% of the population. Even though there is beauty in all races, why should the media care about that? Even Black sitcoms didn't get real air time until white people started watching them (Cosby). Hip hop didn't become a billion dollar industry until White people started buying it. Now, I know I'm preaching to the choir here. But, knowing what you know about the media, why is it so hard for you to ignore?
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
Okay ladies, I have a question about this. I understand that mainstream media is powerful, but I've never felt that it controlled what I considered to be beautiful, or what I was attracted to.


I think if we really thought about it, we might be surprised at how much our perceptions are media influenced.

quote:

The media tells me that ultra-thin women are beautiful, but I find them sickly. Physically, I'm attracted to healthy women. Too fat, or too thin, or too anything for that matter, is a turn off for me.


I'm the same way... I can't think of a single "supermodel" that I ever found very attractive - OK maybe Tyra Big Grin. The super skinny types have never done it for me.

quote:

The other thing about the media, is that they are catering to the masses... and that ain't us! We're only 13% of the population.


We may not be the majority... but... we are the ones who really need to work on loving ourselves... and we are too hooked into the media.... white folk might have made hip hop a billion dollar industry .. but we're the ones who are hurt by placing too much coin in the world of pimps, bitches, and hos.... see xxGambitxx's new thread .

quote:

Now, I know I'm preaching to the choir here. But, knowing what you know about the media, why is it so hard for you to ignore?


This is a question I ask myself all the time... But I'm someone who doesn't watch TV (at all). I got rid of my cable 6 years ago and haven't looked back. I also very rarely listen to radio. My info comes from books, word of mouth, and my favorite internet venues. I only listen to music that I like... and can completely tune out the world if I choose to.

So I'm perpetually amazed at people who complain about TV, or the movies, or music, etc.

PS: Though I've never been a fan of supermodels, interestingly enough, since I unhooked myself from the Matrix, I've found that my concepts of beauty have become that much more flexible.
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
The media tells me that ultra-thin women are beautiful, but I find them sickly. Physically, I'm attracted to healthy women. Too fat, or too thin, or too anything for that matter, is a turn off for me. I've been that way my whole life, regardless of what the media tells me every day. I know what beauty is without the media having to tell me. Why isn't it the same for you women? Why is it so hard for you to ignore?


African-American men, like most men who are under the influence of Western culture, have been more affected by Western standards of beauty than they are willing to acknowledge and admit. Despite Black men's sustaining interest in full-figured women, even today, Black men will find themselves attracted to Black women whose appearance is closer to Western ideals of beauty (e.g., chemically-processed straightened hair, very light, tan, or brown skin, biracial features, etc.) Typically, these are women that Black men, right along with White men, will find attractive versus the Black woman whose hair is tightly-curled and/or course and very dark-skinned. I remember when Sister Daniella first posted an image of herself on the forum. As expected, she began to receive a slew of messages from men, even men who rarely post at all, suddenly came out of nowhere just to pay her a compliment on how "fine" she was (which is ok), but don't tell me about how "unaffected" Black men are by the media. Please. You all, just like the rest of us, are BRAINWASHED into accepting and believing that these kinds of images are what is attractive. Here is an example of an image that is most favored by Black men:

Attachments

Images (1)
  • teyla_s2
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The first image is an example of the type of woman that Black men seek to marry. The second image is example of the type of woman that Black men avoid. Someone made the argument that because Black people are not the majority in America that we should expect to see overwhelming images of White beauty. But what accounts for the negative images of Black women? What accounts for the negative images of Black men? And just to show you how bad the situation is. An African-American woman who is a member of an African-American forum acknowleges the beauty found in her own race and that made some people uncomfortable! So this is a very serious problem. We cannot afford to dismiss this problem as something that we simply have to "shut out and get over." Images are very powerful. They always have been and they always will be.

Our children are influenced by the media also, and not just in the area of beauty and appearance. Media also influences what children (and adults) consider to be "good food." A lot of what the media passes off as "food" is really not. Americans are literally eating toxic waste each day because powerful images in the form of commercials and advertisments imbibe into their minds that such foods are acceptable to eat.
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quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
Please. You all, just like the rest of us, are BRAINWASHED into accepting and believing that these kinds of images are what is attractive. Here is an example of an image that is most favored by Black men:


Rowe, please... we got male bonding going on over in The Den...

And these images ARE attractive... That doesn't mean that other women aren't attractive...

Yes, we think Daniella is attractive ... but we also think qty226 is attractive ...

Not that many women here post their pics in their avatars...
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
I think if we really thought about it, we might be surprised at how much our perceptions are media influenced.

You may be right about that. But, like you, there's a reason I don't watch tv.

quote:
I'm the same way... I can't think of a single "supermodel" that I ever found very attractive - OK maybe Tyra Big Grin. The super skinny types have never done it for me.

The only supermodel that I recall really liking was Naomi Campbell. Even she was a little on the skinny side for me. I'm not very judgemental about it though. I figure, so long as I can't see her bones sticking out, it's cool.

quote:
We may not be the majority... but... we are the ones who really need to work on loving ourselves... and we are too hooked into the media.... white folk might have made hip hop a billion dollar industry .. but we're the ones who are hurt by placing too much coin in the world of pimps, bitches, and hos....

I agree. But, this is all the more reason why we should pay less attention to mainstream media sources. They're not really talking to us anyway, and most of what they say about us is at best dehumanizing and at worst demonizing. It's not fit for rational consumption.
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
The media tells me that ultra-thin women are beautiful, but I find them sickly. Physically, I'm attracted to healthy women. Too fat, or too thin, or too anything for that matter, is a turn off for me. I've been that way my whole life, regardless of what the media tells me every day. I know what beauty is without the media having to tell me. Why isn't it the same for you women? Why is it so hard for you to ignore?


African-American men, like most men who are under the influence of Western culture, have been more affected by Western standards of beauty than they are willing to acknowledge and admit. Despite Black men's sustaining interest in full-figured women, even today, Black men will find themselves attracted to Black women whose appearance is closer to Western ideals of beauty (e.g., chemically-processed straightened hair, very light, tan, or brown skin, biracial features, etc.) Typically, these are women that Black men, right along with White men, will find attractive versus the Black woman whose hair is tightly-curled and/or course and very dark-skinned. I remember when Sister Daniella first posted an image of herself on the forum. And as I expected, she began to receive a slew of messages from men, even men who rarely post at all, suddenly came out of nowhere just to pay her compliment on how "beautiful" she was. So don't tell me about how "unaffected" Black men are by the media. Please. You all, just like the rest of us, are BRAINWASHED into accepting and believing that these kinds of images are what is attractive.

Actually, I was only speaking for and about myself. Then I asked a question in regards to carribeanflavored's comment about mainsteam media and why aren't there more Black women in it if everyone's equally beautiful. I wan't trying to tell you anything about Black men. It's a good thing too, since you already know all about them. Roll Eyes

quote:
Here is an example of an image that is most favored by Black men:

Well... if you had actually read that thread, you would have noticed that most of us were commenting on her muscular physique, not her light-skin or "good hurr", or whatever else you thought we were talking about.
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
Well... if you had actually read that thread, you would have noticed that most of us were commenting on her muscular physique, not her light-skin or "good hurr", or whatever else you thought we were talking about.


BV has a point. Actually I wasn't sure at first that she was black... but after I looked at some of the pictures on the link that xxGambitxx posted I saw her biracial features more clearly. It wasn't her face I found particularly attractive.
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
An African-American woman who is a member of an African-American forum acknowleges the beauty found in her own race and that made some people uncomfortable!

Stop all this projecting... Dizzy is the only one who became uncomfortable.

Whatever... I knew I should have just stayed out of this one. Roll Eyes


When will you learn? nono The only right answers are the ones provided by sister Rowe - the sooner you accept that, the less painful these threads become! lol
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
The media tells me that ultra-thin women are beautiful, but I find them sickly. Physically, I'm attracted to healthy women. Too fat, or too thin, or too anything for that matter, is a turn off for me. I've been that way my whole life, regardless of what the media tells me every day. I know what beauty is without the media having to tell me. Why isn't it the same for you women? Why is it so hard for you to ignore?


African-American men, like most men who are under the influence of Western culture, have been more affected by Western standards of beauty than they are willing to acknowledge and admit. Despite Black men's sustaining interest in full-figured women, even today, Black men will find themselves attracted to Black women whose appearance is closer to Western ideals of beauty (e.g., chemically-processed straightened hair, very light, tan, or brown skin, biracial features, etc.) Typically, these are women that Black men, right along with White men, will find attractive versus the Black woman whose hair is tightly-curled and/or course and very dark-skinned. I remember when Sister Daniella first posted an image of herself on the forum. And as I expected, she began to receive a slew of messages from men, even men who rarely post at all, suddenly came out of nowhere just to pay her compliment on how "beautiful" she was. So don't tell me about how "unaffected" Black men are by the media. Please. You all, just like the rest of us, are BRAINWASHED into accepting and believing that these kinds of images are what is attractive. Here is an example of an image that is most favored by Black men:


Slow your row on the generatizations, sista Rowe.

Some AA men love their sistas non-european looking!
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
BV has a point. Actually I wasn't sure at first that she was black... but after I looked at some of the pictures on the link that xxGambitxx posted I saw her biracial features more clearly. It wasn't her face I found particularly attractive.


I had no idea either. After my last response to Daniella, someone sent me a private message telling me that she was biracial, and so I decided to just leave the topic alone because I thought that maybe this was a sensitive issue for her.
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quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
Well... if you had actually read that thread, you would have noticed that most of us were commenting on her muscular physique.


Sure. You know it's not a huge deal to me what you guys find attractive. But you asked the sisters a question and I answered as best I could.
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quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
The first image is an example of the type of woman that Black men seek to marry. The second image is example of the type of woman that Black men avoid. Someone made the argument that because Black people are not the majority in America that we should expect to see overwhelming images of White beauty. But what accounts for the negative images of Black women? What accounts for the negative images of Black men? And just to show you how bad the situation is. An African-American woman who is a member of an African-American forum acknowleges the beauty found in her own race and that made some people uncomfortable! So this is a very serious problem. We cannot afford to dismiss this problem as something that we simply have to "shut out and get over." Images are very powerful. They always have been and they always will be.

Our children are influenced by the media also, and not just in the area of beauty and appearance. Media also influences what children (and adults) consider "good food." A lot of what the media passes off as "food" is really not. Americans are literally eating toxic waste each day because powerful images in the form of commercials and advertisments imbibe into their minds that such foods are acceptable to eat.


"Someone made the argument that because Black people are not the majority in America that we should expect to see overwhelming images of White beauty. But what accounts for the negative images of Black women?"

Get. To. It. ohsnap
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
The media tells me that ultra-thin women are beautiful, but I find them sickly. Physically, I'm attracted to healthy women. Too fat, or too thin, or too anything for that matter, is a turn off for me. I've been that way my whole life, regardless of what the media tells me every day. I know what beauty is without the media having to tell me. Why isn't it the same for you women? Why is it so hard for you to ignore?


African-American men, like most men who are under the influence of Western culture, have been more affected by Western standards of beauty than they are willing to acknowledge and admit. Despite Black men's sustaining interest in full-figured women, even today, Black men will find themselves attracted to Black women whose appearance is closer to Western ideals of beauty (e.g., chemically-processed straightened hair, very light, tan, or brown skin, biracial features, etc.) Typically, these are women that Black men, right along with White men, will find attractive versus the Black woman whose hair is tightly-curled and/or course and very dark-skinned. I remember when Sister Daniella first posted an image of herself on the forum. As expected, she began to receive a slew of messages from men, even men who rarely post at all, suddenly came out of nowhere just to pay her a compliment on how "fine" she was (which is ok), but don't tell me about how "unaffected" Black men are by the media. Please. You all, just like the rest of us, are BRAINWASHED into accepting and believing that these kinds of images are what is attractive. Here is an example of an image that is most favored by Black men:




I've been told, that i talk about these issues constantly.....and nothing else. So i'll chime in, and move on.

Rowe.......your comment here, was on point!

Its amazing to hear, black men justify this behavior. Its like getting your hand caught in the cookie jar, and pulling back when youre caught.

Its also really hard to stomach black men, craving these type of women.............while bitching about black women.

Im so done!!

*walks out, door slams*
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
The media tells me that ultra-thin women are beautiful, but I find them sickly. Physically, I'm attracted to healthy women. Too fat, or too thin, or too anything for that matter, is a turn off for me. I've been that way my whole life, regardless of what the media tells me every day. I know what beauty is without the media having to tell me. Why isn't it the same for you women? Why is it so hard for you to ignore?


African-American men, like most men who are under the influence of Western culture, have been more affected by Western standards of beauty than they are willing to acknowledge and admit. Despite Black men's sustaining interest in full-figured women, even today, Black men will find themselves attracted to Black women whose appearance is closer to Western ideals of beauty (e.g., chemically-processed straightened hair, very light, tan, or brown skin, biracial features, etc.) Typically, these are women that Black men, right along with White men, will find attractive versus the Black woman whose hair is tightly-curled and/or course and very dark-skinned. I remember when Sister Daniella first posted an image of herself on the forum. As expected, she began to receive a slew of messages from men, even men who rarely post at all, suddenly came out of nowhere just to pay her a compliment on how "fine" she was (which is ok), but don't tell me about how "unaffected" Black men are by the media. Please. You all, just like the rest of us, are BRAINWASHED into accepting and believing that these kinds of images are what is attractive. Here is an example of an image that is most favored by Black men:



So have black women also been brainwashed to not only accept western standards of beauty but also western notions of

1) religion? (sistas are "too blessed to be stressed" and want you too to "have a blessed day")
2) 'success'?
3) material possessions?
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quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
So have black women also been brainwashed to not only accept western standards of beauty but also western notions of

1) religion?
2) 'success'?
3) material possessions?


Brother, you are about to witness more side-stepping & evasion on answering your question than Barry Sanders in his prime! laugh

The irony of Rowe's remarks in this thread are that she has discussed White men, their habits & fashion as things she wished more Black men would adopt. Several times! Roll Eyes
quote:
Originally posted by ddouble:
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
So have black women also been brainwashed to not only accept western standards of beauty but also western notions of

1) religion?
2) 'success'?
3) material possessions?


The irony of Rowe's remarks in this thread are that she has discussed White men, their habits & fashion as things she wished more Black men would adopt. Several times! Roll Eyes


You're right .... She most certainly has.... and I also believe that when someone suggested in Issues and Politics that black women were brainwashed by Western standards of beauty (particularly in regards to hair straightening) someone(s) .... ahem .... had a fit...
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quote:
Originally posted by qty226:
quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:
The media tells me that ultra-thin women are beautiful, but I find them sickly. Physically, I'm attracted to healthy women. Too fat, or too thin, or too anything for that matter, is a turn off for me. I've been that way my whole life, regardless of what the media tells me every day. I know what beauty is without the media having to tell me. Why isn't it the same for you women? Why is it so hard for you to ignore?


African-American men, like most men who are under the influence of Western culture, have been more affected by Western standards of beauty than they are willing to acknowledge and admit. Despite Black men's sustaining interest in full-figured women, even today, Black men will find themselves attracted to Black women whose appearance is closer to Western ideals of beauty (e.g., chemically-processed straightened hair, very light, tan, or brown skin, biracial features, etc.) Typically, these are women that Black men, right along with White men, will find attractive versus the Black woman whose hair is tightly-curled and/or course and very dark-skinned. I remember when Sister Daniella first posted an image of herself on the forum. As expected, she began to receive a slew of messages from men, even men who rarely post at all, suddenly came out of nowhere just to pay her a compliment on how "fine" she was (which is ok), but don't tell me about how "unaffected" Black men are by the media. Please. You all, just like the rest of us, are BRAINWASHED into accepting and believing that these kinds of images are what is attractive. Here is an example of an image that is most favored by Black men:




I've been told, that i talk about these issues constantly.....and nothing else. So i'll chime in, and move on.

Rowe.......your comment here, was on point!

Its amazing to hear, black men justify this behavior. Its like getting your hand caught in the cookie jar, and pulling back when youre caught.

Its also really hard to stomach black men, craving these type of women.............while bitching about black women.

Im so done!!

*walks out, door slams*

You know... I really regret posting on this thread. I should have just left it alone. When I approach these subjects, I always come in with kid gloves because I understand that these are women's issues, and my grasp of them is slim at best. But, whenever I do that, you girls go completely batty.

None of you ever actually read what is written. You only read what fits into assumtions you've already made and then ignore the rest, or read way too far into it. Then, you go off on a tirade that has nothing to do with the question I asked. Why do I even bother?

Whatever... I'm done.

*walks out, door slams*
quote:
Originally posted by Black Viking:

You know... I really regret posting on this thread. I should have just left it alone. When I approach these subjects, I always come in with kid gloves because I understand that these are women's issues, and my grasp of them is slim at best. But, whenever I do that, you girls go completely batty.

None of you ever actually read what is written. You only read what fits into assumtions you've already made and then ignore the rest, or read way too far into it. Then, you go off on a tirade that has nothing to do with the question I asked. Why do I even bother?

Whatever... I'm done.

*walks out, door slams*



Yes... this behavior is typical... they assume they're experts on us... and that we know nothing about them... it's irritating isn't it?

Then when somebody says something like "black women don't listen" then they get the "black women don't listen to you"...
Black Viking....

Im sorry, i was really concentrating on how 'i' felt as a black woman, and who black men find beautiful.

I wasnt trying to ignore your question..... Frown

You spoke of weight.....and i commented on the hue of a black womans skin.

I know both black men/women have issues, and none of us are without fault, in all of this.

I just spoke on whats hurtful to me......

I'll say no more.


I've always enjoyed your posts. So please continue. ther
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
In case this was missed:


quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:

And these images ARE attractive... That doesn't mean that other women aren't attractive...

Yes, we think Daniella is attractive ... but we also think qty226 is attractive ...

Not that many women here post their pics in their avatars...



Yeah i missed it.......

kiss

Thanks HB, that really put a big smile on my face. kiss
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
You're right .... She most certainly has.... and I also believe that when someone suggested in Issues and Politics that black women were brainwashed by Western standards of beauty (particularly in regards to hair straightening) someone(s) .... ahem .... had a fit...


Brother Honestbrother, you must have skipped over my opening comments about how inhaling chemicals from straightening is harzardous to both the stylist and the client. You must have also skipped over my explanations for why I refuse to chemically straighten my own hair. And as the conversation became more intense, someone even joined the thread charging me with attacking women who do straighten their hair! Lastly, those who followed the discussion, closely, know that my "fit" was not over Brother Shango's interest in discussing Western culture's influence over Black women's stlying choices, but his inflammatory comments, verbal abuse, and ignorant-acting behavior.
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quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
So have black women also been brainwashed to not only accept western standards of beauty but also western notions of

1) religion? (sistas are "too blessed to be stressed" and want you too to "have a blessed day")
2) 'success'?
3) material possessions?


1) In my opinion, African people did not learn to become religious and/or spiritual by being under the influence of Western culture. African people were religious long before they were transported to this country. Historically, believing in God is something that African people have always taken seriously.

2) Yes! Both Black women and men have been influenced by Western conceptions of success.

3)Yes! Both Black women and men have been influenced by White America's obsession with accumulating material possessions and goods.

In all areas of life, except perhaps religion, Black people, much like the rest of the colonized world of nonwhites, have been heavily influenced by Western culture and ideals.
quote:
Originally posted by HonestBrother:
Yes... this behavior is typical... they assume they're experts on us... and that we know nothing about them... it's irritating isn't it?


I believe the original question, asked by Brother Viking, was to us. Basically, he wanted to know how is it that Black men can seemingly "ignore" the bombardment of White images of beauty disseminated by the media and Black women cannot. But I'm sorry to inform him that this is simply not the case. The truth is, Black men are just as affected by these images as Black women.

I think it was Honestbrother who said that he avoids the media's influence by simply "turning off the television." This is a great thing to do, and I would definitely recommend it, especially children. However, I am certain that he did not start watching television just recently, and so if he was one of the millions of children in America who watches at least 4 hours of television daily, then the damage of media's powerful influence has already been done.

According to The American Society of Pediatrics, the average child in America sees more than 20,000 commercials each year. Commercials are quick, fast-paced, and entertaining. And after seeing the same commercials and images over and over, a child can easily remember an image, song, slogan, or catchy phrase. Of course as we become older, we begin to understand how ads use pictures, music, and sound to entertain, but again, by then, the iamges of beauty have already been firmly planted. So much so that we can't even consciously acknowledge our preference for some people and not others.
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quote:
Originally posted by qty226:
I've been told, that i talk about these issues constantly.....and nothing else. So i'll chime in, and move on.

Rowe.......your comment here, was on point!

Its amazing to hear, black men justify this behavior. Its like getting your hand caught in the cookie jar, and pulling back when youre caught.

Its also really hard to stomach black men, craving these type of women.............while bitching about black women.

Im so done!!

*walks out, door slams*


Sister, you don't have to move on anywhere. Say what you wish and be confident about it. Smile We all have a right to express our views and opinions on this forum. But now that this thread is winding down to a close, to be honest, I don't think Sister Daniella's comments had anytyhing to do with her being biracial. I just think that Daniella has a pluralistic and politically-correct view about what should be acknowledged as "beautiful." She feels that attributes of "beauty" should not be associated with just one group only. And that's OK. On an African-American forum, we sometimes take for granted that everyone shares our same values, but she just reminded us that they do not.
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quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:

1) In my opinion, African people did not learn to become religious and/or spiritual by being under the influence of Western culture. African people were religious long before they were transported to this country. Historically, believing in God is something that African people have always taken seriously.


We did not have all that Jesus and the utter dermination to force him on everything and everyone around us.

Black people have gotten the worst forms of Western religious fanaticism... And black women are particularly bit by this bug... a Jewish god nailed to a tree is their ideal man - which does NOT bode well for the rest of us...

You do not see Africans sending goddamned missionaries to the other side of the world to spread Orisha worship... we did not get this from Africa... puhlease....
Rowe I agree with everything you posted...

That is very kind of you to not continue 'attacking' Dizzy as I did... but people that think like her, reguardless of their ethnic makeup NEED to have their ideas attacked more often. Too often they can state such nonsense without being challenged. You know what I look like. I'm probably lighter than her, but I'm not self absorbed enough to think that a thread on the appreciation of Black beauty(a.k.a. African features) is not needed, because it is...heck, alot more than a thread is needed! It is all too obvious to anyone who chooses to look around and be honest that the female African phenotype is the most disrespected/least valued by this society...and that is somewhat expected, considering we live in a Western/white supremacist/patriarchial run society ... How that effects everyone, especially the quality of life for those it injures most, African/Black Bantu looking women... is of utmost importance, first off because it is anti-human to have any other reaction, and secondly because that is the appearance of the MASSES of Black/African women globally. I commend you for your sensitivity towards Dizzy's possible 'issues', but honestly, I think she needs to hear the truth.

It seems to always be the one with colour issues who are the ones that screem 'everyone is beautiful." This ish gets on me last nerve.

...and I would also add in response to the male posters that "the media" is not just TV, It is also the print media, newspapers and magazines, billboards and posters, so there is NO WAY to avoid the images that this system pushes, you can't turn thoughs things 'off'.
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
It seems to always be the one with colour issues who are the ones that screem 'everyone is beautiful."


Okay well sister you and I both know that while everyone might be beautiful, there is only one group of people whose "beauty" takes precedence. This is why it is up to us to discuss these matters and supply folks with diverse images of beauty because those who have fallen victim to the "color blind" rhetoric will certainly not.

quote:
...and I would also add in response to the male posters that "the media" is not just TV, it is also the print media, newspapers and magazines, billboards and posters, so there is NO WAY to avoid the images that this system pushes, you can't turn thoughs things 'off'.


thanks
I hate everything read on this post. Why? Because most of you are measuring Black Beauty by a Black American afrocentric people and West Africans. Example
Deep Mahogany Skin
Natural Kinky hair
Full lips
Rounder behind
Wider nose.
The question is East African look nothing like this. Yet they are consider the oldest Africans on Earth. Most of them look like.
Light brown to Olive Skin
Wavy to Straight hair
Thin lips
Pointy noses.
None of you mention this at all. I would have to say most of you have a one view point of what Black beauty is. Your view point is mostly what West Africans think is beautiful. Not whole Africa.
quote:
Originally posted by StaryeYenightess:
I hate everything read on this post. Why? Because most of you are measuring Black Beauty by a Black American afrocentric people and West Africans. Example
Deep Mahogany Skin
Natural Kinky hair
Full lips
Rounder behind
Wider nose.
The question is East African look nothing like this. Yet they are consider the oldest Africans on Earth. Most of them look like.
Light brown to Olive Skin
Wavy to Straight hair
Thin lips
Pointy noses.
None of you mention this at all. I would have to say most of you have a one view point of what Black beauty is. Your view point is mostly what West Africans think is beautiful. Not whole Africa.





It is these characteristics that are most maligned....


It is a West African heritage we mostly come from.... in numbers...

just as we celebrate our heritage in the face of oppression...

we have oppressed our own....

so those of us who are doubly oppressed...

try to find what little nectar we can... and celebrate our unique beauty...

to celebrate does not mean everyone else is denigrated...

it just means... for a time... let us appreciate ourselves...


I say "us" in the general sense... not trying to speak for anyone else here...

Peace...

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