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quote:
Originally posted by Popcorn:
I also have a comment, Ricardo.

Even if that article about the Black Muslins and a Fifth Column is from a bogus website, it seems irresponsible to post it here.


The problem is that the Traditional Values Coalition website is not a bogus website. It is the website of a hate organization that wields considerable influence. I imagine that Shemika is not the only person who frequents that website, nor the only one who buys into the vitriol and hatred posted there as news.

I would hope, though, that by identifying the source of the article (as Shemika neglected to do when she repeatedly posted from the website of the same hate group), that most thinking people would view the article with the appropiate level of skepticism. (Shemika notwithstanding, let's not underestimate the intelligence of the members of this bulletin board.)

The same level of skepticism should apply to the following article, which I quote directly from the KKK website. Hopefully, everybody here, except perhaps Shemika, would have enough sense to discount it, given the source.

I'm quite willing to post articles that I find on websites of hate organizations. What I am quite unwilling to do, however, is to try to mask their source, as Shamika attempted to do when she copied from the Traditional Values Coalition website without a link or attribution.

quote:

Homosexuals at Your Door


There is little doubt that the walls are coming down and unless there is a real spiritual awakening in this country we will see the day when the churches will back down and begin admitting queers in mass.

I remember in 1978 I was speaking with an acquaintance. He was not of our political persuasion, but was still opposed to interracial marriages, but saw nothing wrong with Negroes attending the same church. His argument was, "We're all Christians."

During the conversation I mentioned the great social change that took place in our churches. A few years ago, Negroes had their own churches, and now, the very churches that one spoke against interracial marriages are performing interracial marriages.

It was at this time that I told him that these same churches will, in time, freely admit homosexuals into their congregations, followed by the performance of same-sex marriages.

He thought I was crazy - over reacting!

But we see it happening now. Homosexuality is at the door. Many schools have in their library a video called, It's Elementary, which blatantly promotes the homosexual agenda.

I stand by my prediction. Most and I mean most churches will begin forgiving, then tolerating, and then inviting and then encouraging and finally performing same-sex marriages.

I Know most of you will disagree with me. But if the church you are going to now does not have the moral courage to condemn interracial marriages from the pulpit, they like wise will not be able to stand against homosexuals as they come marching through their doors.

I know that many are speaking against homosexuality from their pulpits now, but remember, they used to speak out against interracial marriages also, until it became unpopular to do so, or until they sold out for tax exempt status.

Unless we separate ourselves from this moral dilemma, there is little doubt that same-sex marriages will be legal in only a few years.

When that happens, it will be come the law, and a new door will open that will flood homosexuals into every corner of America.

And those churches that could not find the moral courage to stand against integration -will also lack the moral courage to stand against homosexuals who beat at their door for acceptance and promotion.

http://www.kkk.bz/homosexu.htm
Ricardo,

I only meant that the Black Muslins must be only a miniscule part of Black America. And the article did state at the beginning that "most Muslims in the United States are loyal citizens and would do nothing to undermine our nation".

I don't in any way, shape, or form approve of gay-bashing or the vicious attacks on gays. Attacks on gay couples, verbal or physical, are not Christian, IMO. It's just more of the same old intolerance of people who are different.
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"Everybody's worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there's a really easy way: stop participating in it."
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Ricardo, I bet you can't even get through a math class without filling those kids heads up with your nonsensical homosexual babblings. Didn't you say you teach math to children in a black community? I've already witnessed how you white fanatical, pro homosexual advocates waste student time and money obsessing over homosexuality in the classroom. It's a shame to go to school to learn how to read, write and do math only to be turned out by some self serving fiend. It's no wonder so many lose sight of the value of their gender after all that indoctrination. You have no respect for parental rights to raise their own children with traditional sexual morals just because you don't have any. And I suppose if Klan members vote blacks shouldn't believe in doing that either...which sounds just like something ˜friendly' crackas say. If Ricardo weren't into homosexuality he'd be talking about how sexually depraved blacks are for reproducing just like the rest of them and probably still does when he's not making his pitch. Promoting homosexuality is just what they push to starve off black male leadership and manhood, exercise control, and diminish black population growth.

Anyone who's ever read my comments knows daym well my views in no way coincide with the Klan's where blacks are concerned, perhaps you might refer to Michael on that one, but certainly not me, I SURE don't idolize crackas. But I've seen plenty of flaming white gays who practice white supremacy, just like the ones who didn't want blacks in their bar....But I guess the fact that they're homosexuals makes them immune to any responsibility for their actions. Your harassment and condemnation is reserved for those who violate your sacred pro-homosexual religion by daring to oppose it. Just like a cracka...they're all the same....they think their schit don't stink and once they lose their morals they insist on everyone else following suit. That's why they organized LAMBA (or whatever it's called), that man-boy association advocating pedophilia.
Confused
Church Sermons Stereotype Gays and Lesbians
Compiled by the DiversityInc staff

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August 02, 2005

Analysis of today's diversity news from The Washington Times, the Los Angeles Times, the San Francisco Chronicle, the Houston Chronicle and more:

The black church in America has to come to terms with homosexuality, writes Eugene Robinson for The Washington Post.

Robinson writes about a sermon preached last month by the Rev. Willie Wilson, pastor of Union Temple Baptist Church, one of the leading black congregations in Washington, D.C. The pastor had said that "lesbianism is about to take over our community," among other things.

After a month of attacks by gay activists and chatter on black-radio stations, Wilson issued an apology. "I am not homophobic, nor am I antifeminist," Wilson said in the statement posted on the Union Temple Web site. "To any and all whom I offended ... I sincerely and most profusely apologize."

Although Wilson says he was trying to address the crisis in the black family when he maintained that black girls are "engaging in same-sex relations" at "an alarming rate all over the nation" and that "many girls ... have been threatened and intimidated into participating by same-sex girls' gangs," Robinson doesn't agree. There is no research suggesting girls or boys can be coerced into becoming gay, Robinson writes. The notion that gay men and lesbians somehow "recruit" boys and girls into the same-sex camp has been discredited as myth.



***They may want to re-think that last statement........
The National Black Justice Coalition has a audio file of the sermon in question. It's pretty big, though. About 7 Megs. But I was able to download it on dialup.
quote:

NBJC Condemns Divisive Rhetoric


Civil Rights Group Calls for Act of Contrition

Washington, DC, (July 18, 2005): –
In statements tthis week the National Black Justice Coalition (NBJC), characterized recent anti-women and anti-lesbian and gay preaching by Rev. Willie Wilson as hurtful and divisive to the African American family and demands that he meets with Black same gender loving leaders to explain his pulpit rhetoric and apologize for the pain it has caused so many.

"Rev. Wilson's church has a history of community work and honorable activities, which makes the Reverend's latest foray into pulpit bullying, name-calling and the outrageous bearing of false witness against lesbians and gay men all the more troubling," said Dr. Sylvia Rhue, Director of Religious Affairs and Constituency Development for NBJC. Dr. Rhue added "Rev. Wilson's about face from community conciliator to sexually-illiterate, provocateur has tarnished his legacy, brought public shame to his name and the cause decency in discourse."

To hear Wilsons speech, click here! (this is a large wav. file and will take a few minutes to download)

"Incendiary statements such as Rev. Wilson's are doing nothing to promote community equality. They instead try to ostracize and alienate some members of his congregation," said H. Alexander Robinson, NBJC's Executive Director and CEO.

"Statements like these are often used to pit family member against family member. This causes familial strife and discord with the church and the community at large. Rev. Wilson statements do a disservice to his congregants, to women and lesbian and gay Americans across this county."

"We call on Rev. Wilson to speak directly to the many Black lesbian and gay residents of DC and apologize for the hurts and pains his preaching has caused. He must make it clear that Christ calls ALL of us to love and reconciliation, not ill-informed caricatures and disdain."

NBJC has repeatedly contacted Rev. Wilson about planning for the Millions More Movement March, but calls have not been returned. The Coalition is seeking Rev. Wilson's support for its bid to be one of the national conveners of the March.

"Rev. Wilson's statements were bigoted, callous, unthinking, non-analytical, and did not mirror the gospel in any shape or form and those comments need to be denounced!" said Rev. Graylan Scott Hagler, Senior Minister, Plymouth Congregational United Church of Christ in Washington, DC.

http://www.nbjcoalition.org/news/july-newsletter.html
On a more positive note...

With open arms
A handful of black area churches welcome gays




Rev. Dr. Christine Wiley and her husband, Rev. Dennis Wiley, are co-pastors at Covenant Baptist Church, one of a few houses of worship in Washington, D.C., with a predominantly African-American congregation that welcomes and affirms gays and lesbians. Between Sunday services on July 24, they shared breakfast at the church. (Photo by Adam Cuthbert)

By KATHERINE VOLIN
Friday, July 29, 2005


For gay people of faith in Washington, D.C., choosing a place to worship where sermons opposing homosexuality are not lobbed from the pulpit can be a dicey proposition.

This can be even more daunting for gay African Americans seeking spiritual solace within a predominantly black congregation.

A recent sermon by Rev. Willie Wilson, the longtime pastor at Union Temple Baptist Church in Southeast D.C., in which he said "lesbianism is about to take over our community" and offered offensive descriptions about sexual acts involving gay people, illuminated this dilemma.

Nonetheless, there are at least seven houses of worship in Washington with predominantly African-American congregations that attract gay and lesbian congregants. They are: Covenant Baptist Church, Faith Temple, Freedom Fellowship Christian Church, Greater Hope Christian Church International, Inner Light Ministries, Unity Fellowship Church of Washington, D.C., and Unity of Washington, D.C.

Rev. Dennis Wiley and Rev. Dr. Christine Wiley, a married African-American couple, preside at the 600-member Covenant Baptist Church in Southwest D.C. In addition to offering gay congregants a supportive place to worship, the church also operates an HIV/AIDS ministry.

"Jesus says nothing about the question of sexual orientation, but he does say a lot [about] loving one's neighbor and how we should treat one's neighbor," Dennis Wiley said.

He has been pastor at Covenant Baptist since 1985. His wife was assistant pastor there and recently became co-pastor as part of the couple's ongoing effort to become as inclusive as possible.

"The Baptist tradition is pretty sexist and homophobic and all of that, but we're trying to empower all of our people," Christine Wiley said. "[Our] No. 1 strategy is that we will invite everyone to church regardless of race, gender or sexual orientation."

Covenant Baptist has a mixture of heterosexual and homosexual congregants, but Christine Wiley said many of its gay members have not come out.

"It's not necessarily comfortable here at Covenant for gay people because we're going to talk about [homosexuality]," she said, adding that the church leaders "still have to respect persons who are not out."

Her husband said the church's emphasis on the African roots of its congregants should make Covenant Baptist members even more aware of discrimination and the damage it causes.

"We, as the members of a black race that have endured so much oppression, should be the last ones to visit that same kind of attitude and behavior toward others," he said.

On July 3, Wilson, the national executive leader of the upcoming 10th anniversary of the Million Man March (known as the Millions More Movement), told his parishioners in sexually graphic terms that homosexuality was unnatural.

"I ain't homophobic, because everybody in here got something wrong with him. ... But when you get down to this thing, women falling down on another woman, strapping yourself up with something, it ain't real. That thing ain't got no feeling in it. It ain't natural," he said. "Any time somebody got to slap some grease on your behind, and stick something in you, it's something wrong with that. Your butt ain't made for that."

After Wilson received criticism for his remarks, the Washington Post reported that during a sermon on July 17, he said Union Temple had done more to reach out to gay people than any other church in the city, "unless it's a gay church."

Wilson did not elaborate and did not return Blade calls to clarify the remark.

Union Temple has an extensive AIDS ministry outreach program, which includes providing financial assistance and counseling and educational programs, according to its Web site.

In 2000, Wilson hosted a discussion to try to unify gay and straight African Americans. At the time, he said, "The church must not be religious haters but people who know how to love."

Several men opposed to homosexuality interrupted the meeting and told Wilson they were disappointed that he would convene such a gathering. Wilson told the Blade that night that, "We've got to do a whole lot, and there's a need for serious dialogue and communication."

As a result of Wilson's recent remarks, however, Rev. Graylan Hagler, the presiding pastor at Plymouth Congregational United Church of Christ in Washington, canceled a Millions More Movement meeting that was scheduled to take place there in August.

Hagler, who is African American, said he canceled the meeting "largely because of the comments that Rev. Wilson made in his July 3 sermon and the hurt and the division it inflicted upon the community ... bigotry cannot be excused and cannot be supported."

Local black gay activists as well as former D.C. Mayor Marion Barry, D.C. Congressional Del. Eleanor Holmes Norton, gay D.C. Councilmember Jim Graham (D-Ward 1) and Councilmember Carol Schwartz (R-At-Large) criticized Wilson for the sermon. The activists had been trying unsuccessfully to work with march organizers to be included in the Millions More Movement. They are now considering a boycott of the event.

In addition to Covenant Baptist, several other local churches with predominantly black congregations welcome gay worshipers.

"When we look at the theology of Jesus, it was about inclusion, not exclusion," said Bishop Kwabena Rainey Cheeks, the gay founder of Inner Light Ministries, which he said has about 50 members, most of whom are gay. "In the Christian church, we have many different denominations and many different views, from the fundamental to the very liberal."

Cheeks is co-founder of Us Helping Us: People Into Living Inc., an HIV/AIDS organization founded here in 1985 to support black gay and bisexual men.

Rev. Dyan McCray, the lesbian pastor of Unity Fellowship Church in Northwest D.C., also said she does not condemn from the pulpit. She said the church has 200 members, and most there also are gay.

"When you stand up in a pulpit on Sunday morning, people that come, come to be fed," said McCray, who also is a board member for the Mautner Project, a national lesbian health organization. "They don't come to listen to hatred or to be hurt."

MORE INFO


Covenant Baptist Church

Revs. Dennis & Christine Wiley
3845 S. Capitol St., SW
202-562-5576

Faith Temple

A team of pastors presides
Convenes at New York Avenue Presbyterian Church Chapel
1313 New York Ave., NW
202-232-4911

Freedom Fellowship Christian Church

Rev. Kevin D. Brown
400 H St., NE
202-544-7988
http://www.ffccdc.org

Greater Hope Christian Church International

Rev. Dr. Paulette M.E. Stevens
1722 N. Capitol St., NW
202-257-5383
http://www.greaterhopechristianchurch.org

Inner Light Ministries

Bishop Kwabena "Rainey" Cheeks
Meets at St. Stephen's Episcopal Church
1525 Newton St., NW
202-332-7750

Unity of Washington D.C.

Rev. Sylvia Sumter
700 A St., NE
202-543-1414
http://www.unitywdc.org

Unity Fellowship Church, Washington D.C.

Rev. Abena McCray
Luther Place Memorial Church
1226 Vermont Ave., NW
202-232-1073
http://www.unityfellowshipchurch.com

Unity Fellowship Church of Baltimore

Rev. Harris Thomas
114 W. Read St., Baltimore
410-244-0884
http://www.ufcb.org

http://www.washblade.com/2005/7-29/locallife/cover/arms.cfm
bs Just because some pro homosexual closet queer conducts scientific sounding, bogus azz ˜studies' claiming people are incapable of being persuaded to engage in homosexual acts doesn't make it so. Common sense, my own observations of their persistent nagging and scheming, as well as confessions of such from many others, demonstrate otherwise. As well as the countless known molestation of children that went on for years by those priests...and countless other adults (such as Boy Scott leaders, school teachers, relatives, etc.). To deny that reality is flat out cruel and ludicrous. Just as people can be persuaded and influenced to engage in various other social activities, such as drug use and drinking, they sure as hell can be pressured or influenced to engage in sexual activity as well, not excluding homosexual ˜sex'. I've seen teachers suggesting sexual experimentation with homosexuality to students, sponsoring gay ˜clubs' on campus, posting literature, and so on....I've even seen books aimed to kindergarteners. These same individuals are vehemently opposed to bible study clubs of course.

In any case, it is an absolute insult for this moron to think that just because a white supremacist disapproves of homosexuality that black people must approve of it just for the sake of disagreeing with them. Under this logic I suppose that if some professed white supremacist disapproves of child molestation, blacks should support pedophilia as well. I doubt genuine, level headed blacks are so dense and easy to manipulate as to fall for that one. You can find white supremacist minded people who engage in all sorts of beliefs and practices regarding sexuality....and the Klan isn't the only white supremacist hate group out there.

What also amazes me is how whether someone is a professed homosexual is only given weight when it's used to the benefit of pro homosexual crusaders. Yet no one keeps track of whether the person robbing a bank, convenience store, shoplifting, committing murder, or vandalism is a homosexual, in that case they only care whether the accused is black or not. However, they are eager to report when a proclaimed homosexual claims to be a ˜victim' of a crime.

Confused Also, why blacks would concern themselves over whether or not some hypocritical goat humping hick cracker wants to marry them or not is beyond me. There should certainly be more to equality then the false courtesies of white folk. Blacks need to focus on forming a united front among them selves to cultivate economic and social empowerment as well as freedom from being intrigued by these crackas enough to even care what they think or whether they have anything to do with them beyond recovery of our stolen black economic inheritance.

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