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In the McCain thread, someone mentioned the 2003 affirmative action drama that surrounded the University of Michigan. As you all know, the back story to the whole undergrad issue revolved around the white female applicant who wasn't admitted to the UM while "minorities" -- AND WHITES, as quiet as it was kept -- with lesser grades and test scores were admitted.

Now, Jennifer Gratz, the white female student made Ward Connerly's damsel, went on to go to college somewhere else -- the University of Michigan - Dearborn as a matter of fact. But the supposed tragedy of it all was that she wasn't "allowed" to have her first choice of schools. Well...

quote:
According to the Student Satisfaction Inventory (SSI), 49 percent of African-American students at four-year private colleges were attending their first-choice schools versus 70 percent of Caucasians. At four-year public institutions, 42 percent of African Americans were at their first-choice schools, compared with 69 percent of Caucasians.


Another tidbit for our visiting nitwit:

quote:
While a low-income student has an increased dependence on student loans, African-American students are more reticent about borrowing for college than are their Caucasian counterparts. To cover costs, African-American students turn to off-campus employment 10 percent more frequently, and they are more likely to be employed full time while attending school.




SOURCE:

http://www.usafunds.org/news/27jan2004/dmp012704a.html
Original Post
quote:
While a low-income student has an increased dependence on student loans, African-American students are more reticent about borrowing for college than are their Caucasian counterparts. To cover costs, African-American students turn to off-campus employment 10 percent more frequently, and they are more likely to be employed full time while attending school


This is exactly what i have been arguing with you about in other threads. This is exactly the pattern that others should be following and emulating.

Personal responsibility takes control, awesome to read.
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This is exactly what i have been arguing with you about in other threads.

No, that's exactly some bs that came out your racist azz and it contradicts your racist stereotyping and ignorant assumption, and I quote:


Frown "How dare black people achieve more then me by being educated and working harder then me, after all i am part white and it is my right to have the highest position."
[/sarcasm]

I guess being part white i also missed the entitlement of being handed everything. I really wish i would have known about that shit before i lived in poverty and took out student loans to go to school. Hell this working shit since i was 14 is old as fuck."
Frown

So your little low-brow racist ass wanted to claim that you and, by extension Whites generally, work harder than African-Americans who are "handed everything."

And you make being racist worse by being a dumbass racist. You brought up the UM case and tried to point to the points "minorities" received under the old 150 point system but failed to mention the 20 points available to those [whites] from low-income backgrounds but you failed to mention not only the lily whiteness of the Upper Peninsula but the 16 points awarded, not based on merit, but just based on being from the Upper Peninsula -- geographical points that didn't apply to Black inner city Detroit students, e.g., no matter how poor and deserving they were.
quote:
Originally posted by Nmaginate:
quote:
This is exactly what i have been arguing with you about in other threads.

No, that's exactly some bs that came out your racist azz and it contradicts your racist stereotyping and ignorant assumption, and I quote:


Frown "How dare black people achieve more then me by being educated and working harder then me, after all i am part white and it is my right to have the highest position."
[/sarcasm]

I guess being part white i also missed the entitlement of being handed everything. I really wish i would have known about that shit before i lived in poverty and took out student loans to go to school. Hell this working shit since i was 14 is old as fuck."
Frown

So your little low-brow racist ass wanted to claim that you work harder than African-Americans who are "handed everything."

And you make being racist worse by being a dumbass racist. You brought up the UM case and tried to point to the points "minorities" received under the old 150 point system but failed to mention the 20 points available to those [whites] from low-income backgrounds but you failed to mention not only the lily whiteness of the Upper Peninsula but the 16 points awarded, not based on merit, but just based on being from the Upper Peninsula -- geographical points that didn't apply to Black inner city Detroit students, e.g., no matter how poor and deserving they were.


So you stoop to taking other people statements out of context, why this does not surprise me i do not know.

Oh and P.S you forgot to take the [/sarcasm] tab out of your quote
quote:
Originally posted by Nmaginate:
quote:
This is exactly what i have been arguing with you about in other threads.

No, that's exactly some bs that came out your racist azz and it contradicts your racist stereotyping and ignorant assumption, and I quote:


Frown "How dare black people achieve more then me by being educated and working harder then me, after all i am part white and it is my right to have the highest position."
[/sarcasm]

I guess being part white i also missed the entitlement of being handed everything. I really wish i would have known about that shit before i lived in poverty and took out student loans to go to school. Hell this working shit since i was 14 is old as fuck."
Frown

So your little low-brow racist ass wanted to claim that you and, by extension Whites generally, work harder than African-Americans who are "handed everything."

And you make being racist worse by being a dumbass racist. You brought up the UM case and tried to point to the points "minorities" received under the old 150 point system but failed to mention the 20 points available to those [whites] from low-income backgrounds but you failed to mention not only the lily whiteness of the Upper Peninsula but the 16 points awarded, not based on merit, but just based on being from the Upper Peninsula -- geographical points that didn't apply to Black inner city Detroit students, e.g., no matter how poor and deserving they were.


Now that i think about, did you actually not get the point i was making ? You seem to be an educated man/women but using low brow tactics like that kind of makes me wonder if my initial indication of you was wrong. I am really offended that you are acting like you work at Faux news and misquoting someone to try and make a point. I thought that we had a gentlemans agreement to have a debate without name calling and have a civil discussion.
quote:
Wow dude, you are way bitter


No, I am just way better than you are at making sense.



quote:
I am really offended that you are acting like you work at Faux news and misquoting someone to try and make a point.

This is as fake as your claim that you favor "merit" based admissions.

I quoted you correctly for all the relevant content needed. Point out a word in what I quoted from you that you didn't type/say in the other thread.

You can't. lol
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No, that's exactly some bs that came out your racist azz and it contradicts your racist stereotyping and ignorant assumption, and I quote


Only 2 post up, i did not have to go far

quote:
No, that's exactly some bs that came out your racist azz and it contradicts your racist stereotyping and ignorant assumption, and I quote
quote:
Originally posted by jlokes:
quote:
No, that's exactly some bs that came out your racist azz and it contradicts your racist stereotyping and ignorant assumption, and I quote


Only 2 post up, i did not have to go far

quote:
No, that's exactly some bs that came out your racist azz and it contradicts your racist stereotyping and ignorant assumption, and I quote


The fact that you cant deal with sarcasm and the meaning, makes me wonder about your you interpretations about events that just happened.

Sorry dude the world is not against you.
quote:
Originally posted by Nmaginate:
quote:
The fact that you cant deal with sarcasm and the meaning


The meaning was what?

When you said:
"How dare black people achieve more then me by being educated and working harder then me, after all i am part white and it is my right to have the highest position."

The meaning was what?


Anytime you're ready...

You have to be kidding right >
quote:
Sarcasm[A] is stating the opposite of an intended meaning especially in order to sneeringly, slyly, jest or mock a person, situation or thing. It is strongly associated with irony, with some definitions classifying it as a type of verbal irony intended to insult or wound. Sarcasm can also be used in a humorous or jesting way depending on the intent of the person speaking.
Are you really that sensitive, or hate white people that much that you use meaningless rhetoric to try and make a point. I am actually dumbfounded that you are trying to use something like that to make a point, it is obvious that you know better.

quote:
Sarcasm[A] is stating the opposite of an intended meaning especially in order to sneeringly, slyly, jest or mock a person, situation or thing. It is strongly associated with irony, with some definitions classifying it as a type of verbal irony intended to insult or wound. Sarcasm can also be used in a humorous or jesting way depending on the intent of the person speaking.
quote:
Sarcasm - is stating the opposite of an intended meaning


You really are a dumbass racist.


The opposite of "How dare black people achieve more then me by being educated and working harder then me" is, how did I say, "your little low-brow racist ass wanted to claim that you and, by extension Whites generally, work harder than African-Americans who are 'handed everything'..." which was exactly not what the information I quoted indicated.
quote:
Originally posted by Nmaginate:
quote:
Sarcasm - is stating the opposite of an intended meaning


You really are a dumbass racist.


The opposite of "How dare black people achieve more then me by being educated and working harder then me" is, how did I say, "your little low-brow racist ass wanted to claim that you and, by extension Whites generally, work harder than African-Americans who are 'handed everything'..." which was exactly not what the information I quoted indicated.


Dude do you know how stupid you are coming across. The [sarcasm] [/sarcasm] tags dont help you out at all ? I already posted the definition, what else would you like me to do.
Dance on my head ?
Kill some kittens ?
Fly to the moon ?

If that is your argument i ask you to stop now.
quote:
I already posted the definition


And you self-fucked yourself with it.

Sarcasm is stating the opposite of an intended meaning



So you intended to say the opposite of:
How dare black people achieve more then me by being educated and working harder then me


That makes you not just a racist but a dumbass racist -- one who PROJECTS and protests too much as you try to cover up or distract from your racist Elmer tracks.
quote:
Originally posted by Nmaginate:
quote:
I already posted the definition


And you self-fucked yourself with it.

Sarcasm is stating the opposite of an intended meaning

You stupid bastard, it was a compliment to the people i answer to at work, who happen to be black. If you didn't get that i cant help that you are so skewed to rhetoric on an internet message board.



So you intended to say the opposite of:
How dare black people achieve more then me by being educated and working harder then me


That makes you not just a racist but a dumbass racist -- one who PROJECTS and protests too much as you try to cover up or distract from your racist Elmer tracks.
quote:
it was a compliment to the people i answer to at work


Hmmmm... That's not in the definition you provided:

Sarcasm is stating the opposite of an intended meaning especially in order to sneeringly, slyly, jest or mock a person, situation or thing.

The OPPOSITE of what you wrote and, by the defintion of sarcasm, what you meant to write was how African-Americans don't work as hard as you because, you know, you've been working since you were 14 while they are "handed everything."



[Sarcasm] is strongly associated with irony, with some definitions classifying it as a type of verbal irony intended to insult or wound.

You intended to wound or insult who? The people you answer to at work?

Go ahead, explain how the use of sarcasm which, by definition, indicates that you want to insult or wound someone somehow compliment the people you answer to at work. INSULT = COMPLIMENT?

C'mon, dude...
quote:
he OPPOSITE of what you wrote and, by the defintion of sarcasm, what you meant to write was how African-Americans don't work as hard as you because, you know, you've been working since you were 14 while they are "handed everything."


You have to be kidding me, dude go back to school. The point was, i report to my boss's because they studied harder then me, worked harder then me.

Has society really fucked you up that much. Christ i cant even give a compliment to the black race, without you fucking hating on me. I just have to say that it is way sad.
quote:
The point was, i report to my boss's because they studied harder then me, worked harder then me.


That doesn't fit the definition you provided for sarcasm.


quote:
Christ i cant even give a compliment to the black race

Your bosses = the black race???

Since when has SARCASM, defined as intended to insult, meant giving a COMPLIMENT?

You're one dumbazz racist. You're so dumb you do it to yourself. And your bosses can't help you because you can't help yourself:

"This is exactly the pattern that others should be following and emulating."

How do you know who the others are? The quote said nothing about how any of the students, Black or White, were admitted or what kind of grades they had.

Also, outside of the sarcasm you associated being white with not "being handed everything" which, in the context of your comment, meant that Blacks were. I'm sure your bosses would find that as a compliment and even if we pretend that you did compliment them then your clear intent was to stereotype the rest of the "black race" as not willing to work for what they want and, instead, feeling "entitled" like they are supposed to be "handed everything."
quote:
That doesn't fit the definition you provided for sarcasm.

Are you really that fuckin stupid, or just a troll.

quote:
Your bosses = the black race???

Since when has SARCASM, defined as intended to insult, meant giving a COMPLIMENT?

You're one dumbazz racist. You're so dumb you do it to yourself. And your bosses can't help you because you can't help yourself:

"This is exactly the pattern that others should be following and emulating."

How do you know who the others are? The quote said nothing about how any of the students, Black or White, were admitted or what kind of grades they had.

Also, outside of the sarcasm you associated being white with not "being handed everything" which, in the context of your comment, meant that Blacks were. I'm sure your bosses would find that as a compliment and even if we pretend that you did compliment them then your clear intent was to stereotype the rest of the "black race" as not willing to work for what they want and, instead, feeling "entitled" like they are supposed to be "handed everything."


laugh Holy shit dude take a fuckin pill. You are the one that implies that affirmative action is necessary, not me.
quote:
You are the one that implies that affirmative action is necessary, not me.


ENGLISH!!!!


... and memory would help. In the other thread you claimed that you "will only argue about actual statements" but here you are talking about what you say I "imply."

It's actual statement time, my little defeated racist friend. Where is my actual statement that said whether affirmative action was needed or not?
quote:
Originally posted by Nmaginate:
quote:
You are the one that implies that affirmative action is necessary, not me.


ENGLISH!!!!


... and memory would help. In the other thread you claimed that you "will only argue about actual statements" but here you are talking about what you say I "imply."

It's actual statement time, my little defeated racist friend. Where is my actual statement that said whether affirmative action was needed or not?

Well i tried to have an actual discussion in that thread, but i didn't get a reply. Why dont you talk about an issue that is bothering you and we can have a civilized debate.
Reference:
As you all know, the back story to the whole undergrad issue revolved around the white female applicant who wasn't admitted to the UM while "minorities" -- AND WHITES, as quiet as it was kept -- with lesser grades and test scores were admitted.


Nmag,


I'm searching the archives here for a link to that statistic for a discussion in another forum on AA, but I haven't been able to locate it, and I can't think of any words to search on besides "gratz", but maybe her name wasn't in the actual post.

I remember you posting it back when the Protest Warriors were in town.


Do you (or anybody) know where to find it?


If anybody here does know, I would really appreciate the assistance!


Thanks!

I found a snippet about it in a Tim Wise article. It doesn't have the exact statistic like the one that I am thinking of, but it does make the point well.:



------------------------------------------

Or for that matter, consider Jennifer Gratz, the lead plaintiff in a reverse discrimination suit against the University of Michigan, which was resolved in her favor in June 2003.

Despite her successful claim against the undergraduate school of Literature, Arts and Sciences, it is impossible to claim that she was actually victimized so as to make way for less qualified students of color. After all, the year she was rejected, there were not only several dozen students of color who got in to Michigan ahead of her, despite having had lower test scores and grades than she, but there were well over a thousand other whites with lower scores and grades who were also admitted ahead of her.

Furthermore, there were approximately two thousand other whites who were rejected along with Gratz, despite having had higher scores and grades than she.

The first of these facts suggests that Gratz was not passed over on behalf of people of color, so much as other whites, who fit certain admissions criteria better than she did, while the second of these facts indicates that even in the absence of any affirmative action program at Michigan, Ms. Gratz wouldn't have been admitted to the first year class in Ann Arbor, as there were two thousand other white applicants in front of her in line, using the straight grade and SAT formula that she seemed to favor.

------------------------------------------

http://www.lipmagazine.org/~ti...PlayingRaceCard.html

Ricardo, I couldn't begin to find the stats here but I think this is what you're referring to:

“The intervenors studied the admissions decisions during the year plaintiff Jennifer Gratz applied. They found many white students with lesser qualifications than Gratz were admitted. Of the 2,661 admitted students with lower standardized test scores and grade point averages, some 1,243 were white and 725 were black.”

Of course, the Detroit News article quoted above is no longer available but I posted the stats on Faheem's and Noah's old blog, Black Introspection, and they were cited on another forum discussing AA.

I don't know what the ultimate source was for the stats cited by the Detroit News but, like Tim Wise's number, there were quite a few general numbers thrown around, like the 1500 students stat cited by the WashPo's Colbert King.  The Detroit News' stats seemed more specific.
'I guess being part white...'jlkoes'

A quick question...

I've seen this kind of reference before.

I can guess at what it might mean, but I would appreciate an explanation/definition from someone who uses the term.

My motivation stems from the fact that a very large percentage of African Ameircan-Americans fall into the category of 'part white'...including me.

However, I never even think of myself as 'part white'.

No one, raised in American society, would come that conclusion on sight.

Would you explain?

PEACE

Jim Chester
Reference:
I see some controls that allow me to switch to various views of AA.org, such as just the this Issues and Politics forum, or the folder that this forum sits in, or ALL to see everything. I also see a control to allow me to sort by last reply or thread creation date.

Yeah ... I've seen those, too.  But I'd just settle for being able to search just our content ... instead of finding everything in the entire LiveCloud community!! 
Reference:
Ricardo, I couldn't begin to find the stats here but I think this is what you're referring to:


“The intervenors studied the admissions decisions during the year plaintiff Jennifer Gratz applied. They found many white students with lesser qualifications than Gratz were admitted. Of the 2,661 admitted students with lower standardized test scores and grade point averages, some 1,243 were white and 725 were black.”

That's the one!


Thanks!

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