Skip to main content

In another thread the notion of black nationalism arose. Here's a (clearly hypothetical) situation. What would you do? If you were in negotiation with Bush about this, what other terms and conditions would you attempt to secure?

What would you think about our current president coming to African America and offering to "give" us Iraq? We help to stabilize it and secure certain American interests there for which we would gain title to the land and the promise of security (to the degree that it can be given), a guarantee of certain payments and economic deals over a period of time, and assistance in executing our foreign policy in the region (i.e. part of the deal would be gaining Saudi Arabia and Israel's support to this).

We could rename the country, execute whatever domestic policy toward the indigenous people we chose, or manage our foreign policy as we saw fit etc. The United States would also pay for free travel to the country and give every American going a "settlement package" that would secure them a job and home and vehicle.

The country would be under African American control 100% - in every way.

No doubt, this would be fraught with risks and danger. Like Israel, the country would probably be the focal point of considerable Arab aggression (at least for the next 50 - 75 years) BUT African Americans would have a permanent homeland.


That's the deal - do you take it?

© MBM

Original Post
quote:
What would you think about our current president coming to African America and offering to "give" us Iraq? We help to stabilize it and secure certain American interests there for which we would gain title to the land and the promise of security (to the degree that it can be given), a guarantee of certain payments and economic deals over a period of time, and assistance in executing our foreign policy in the region (i.e. part of the deal would be gaining Saudi Arabia and Israel's support to this).



ERR do the "IRAQI HUMAN BEINGS" have something to say about this plan?

If they are currently shooting and blowing up BLACK AMERICAN G.I.s in uniform what makes you think that they would accept YOU as you attempt to take over THEIR LAND? I don't think they would by the notion of YOUR VICTIMIZATION WITHIN AMERICA as the calling card for your acceptance and their submission to your goals.

As I told you in my previous accounts of MY PLAN FOR REPARATIONS - the best hope is to offer assistance to WILLING African nations/regions. Allow African-Americans to be the primary builders of the infrastructure (water systems, communications networks, electrical grid) and other government services that will allow them to have their STANDARD OF LIVING RAISED. Those Americans who wish to stay can.

*The Africans benefit by having access to modern accoutrement.

*African Americans will benefit by acquiring the skills at building and managing large civil engineering projects. This could later be applied elsewhere.

*American corporations benefit because they would supply a significant portion of the equipment and technology transfer to make it all work.
DAMMIT!!! I am agreeing with Joseph C. Phillips and Constructive Feedback almost in the same week!! Eek Eek bang I'm thinking I should have put a full psychological workup on my Christmas list instead of a dang crock pot! Eek This is getting scary. sck

For the record, no, I would not want to take Iraq from the Iraqis. To me, we would be no better than Israel and the Israelis and I've never liked the way that that situation went down. And I'm sure not prepared to go into somewhere where there's rampant killing going on and act the part of a peacemaker before we could have peace ourselves!

However, with certain alterations to the plan, I would agree with CF's version more readily.

First, I don't think African Americans should just go in as "workers" though. We should be repatriated into the country as equal citizens and should be building for ourselves as well as helping the indigenous population of Africans already there.

Secondly, that should be African-American corporations ONLY that would be supplying everything (except the cash) and if necessary, appropriate grants and loans should be made available to those African American companies and corporations to help them be able to handle the volume. Only in cases where the necessary resources cannot be supplied by an African-American-owned company should we look to buy from anybody else.

In short, I don't think we should be "placed" where we haven't been invited or are not wanted. The Iraqis have their own troubles. As African Americans we should either have a place within Africa or America. We've been spread out in enough other places. I'd rather make our "homeland" one of the two places that's already "home" for us.
quote:
Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:

ERR do the "IRAQI HUMAN BEINGS" have something to say about this plan?

If they are currently shooting and blowing up BLACK AMERICAN G.I.s in uniform what makes you think that they would accept YOU as you attempt to take over THEIR LAND?


Uh, gee CF, thanks for understanding the dilemma. cabbage

No kidding there is no proverbial silver platter. That's the point. Moreover, even in any realistic consideration of something like this, there will be no silver platter. The question for consideration is, how badly do we want a black nation and what will we do/accept to get it?
quote:
Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:

As I told you in my previous accounts of MY PLAN FOR REPARATIONS - the best hope is to offer assistance to WILLING African nations/regions. Allow African-Americans to be the primary builders of the infrastructure (water systems, communications networks, electrical grid) and other government services that will allow them to have their STANDARD OF LIVING RAISED. Those Americans who wish to stay can.


This doesn't sound like black nationalism. It may be a wonderful expression of Pan-Africanism, but your scenario doesn't deliver African Americans rule over their own land - which is the topic of this thread.
But, MBM, how can any land be "our own" if there's somebody else already on it? The U.S. doesn't own Iraq so it is not America's to give away, right?

The only way to give us our "own" nation state would be to put us on uninhabited land. Now, I could go for that! tfro

quote:
The question for consideration is, how badly do we want a black nation and what will we do/accept to get it?


I'm not prepared to displace, steal, or hijack from anybody to get a Black nation. That's way too European for me. Roll Eyes
No disrespect MBM, but "giving" us Iraq? No deal. How are you going to take over a country where there are already a self-governed population? That is just as bad as when the Europeans "gave" the Jews Israel. That's just stupid and arrogant. Iraq is not for the U.S. to give away. That's not the way we ought to conduct ourselves.
Nation building is a complicated thing. First one must have an infastructure. Our infastructure as the black community was destroyed a long time ago. There are hardly any black businesses, black schools have for the most part been disbanded by integration, there are not really any more social/civic organizations again disbanded by integration. If we were to build up our strength again, which would probably take another 50 years, then we could build our own nation.
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:

The only way to give us our "own" nation state would be to put us on uninhabited land. Now, I could go for that!


Antarctica and the Moon are your choices. You pick. sck

quote:
I'm not prepared to displace, steal, or hijack from anybody to get a Black nation. That's way too European for me. Roll Eyes


What would you say to someone who responded that you just don't want it badly enough and that you place the welfare of (in this example) Iraqis over your own? 15
quote:
Originally posted by Yssys:

That is just as bad as when the Europeans "gave" the Jews Israel.


Precisely - and that's the point. All these years later the world graciously accepts Israel and any challenges to their existence are considered out of the mainstream.

Your grandchildren would not have the stigma of having displaced anyone AND they would have their own nation.

Is that not valuable to you?
quote:
To me, we would be no better than Israel and the Israelis and I've never liked the way that that situation went down.


You were doing so good EbonyRose then you threw this in.

Are you saying that Israel was once the NATION of "Palestine"? Please prove this.

Also please note that what some call "Palestine" has a greater land mass in LEBANON and SYRIA. Why aren't the Palestinians going after THESE FOLKS as they are Israel?

Where was the original "Israel" in your view?


quote:
Secondly, that should be African-American corporations ONLY that would be supplying everything


Errr - black corporations don't make TRACTORS - John Deere and CAT does

Black corporations don't make expensive communications equipment - Cisco, Lucent and Nortel do

Black corporations don't manufacture the massive infrastructure for water treatment and sewage treatment plants.

This was my POINT.

If you recall a few years ago, however, General Electric signed a multi-billion dollar agreement with the Chinese Government for the turbines for a massive hydro-electric dam. The GE was required to allow the Chinese engineers become trained on all aspects of the GE technology. GE agreed because it was interested in SHORT TERM financial results. They, however just created a COMPETITOR which one day will match and then surpass its skill if the pattern of the computer industry is followed. These same partnership mandates should be put forth in this plan.

I recall seeing a dam that was built by the Belgians. There originally were 2 turbines. One broke down after they left and it remains idle today. The Africans never developed the internal skill to service and upgrade this technology (NOT THAT THEY HAD THE CHOICE OR OPPORTUNITY TO EITHER - that Colonialism thing and all...right Oshuny?). The second generator is powering a sizable portion of the electricity used by the city near by. Some regulator on the second unit broke down. Now there is a human that must sit in front of a certain meter and constantly flip a switch or this second unit will burn out as well. The have the BENEFIT of the technology but don't have the infrastructure to MAINTAIN IT. This cannot be allowed to happen in the future.
quote:
Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:
Are you saying that Israel was once the NATION of "Palestine"? Please prove this.


No, CF, that's not what I'm saying. And I have no intention of trying to "prove" anything to you.

What I am saying is that the West had no right or authority "give" anything to anybody that they did not own nor possess. What is now "Israel" is no less than in intruder on that piece of land, borne out of the arrogance of Europe and the United States.

Also, unlike you, I don't believe Black people to be too stupid to manufacture tractors and communications equipment and treatment plants. Given the money and opportunity we can develop anything and everything that would be needed to develop a turbine engine. We, too, can buy parts and materials and collaborate with the Chinese to build the necessary infrastructure to put together a Black Nation state.

Believe it or not, Black people are just as capable as anybody else of doing anything that can be done. Those American corporations you speak of got a head start on development as they were stepping on our heads to make their climb. That doesn't mean they crushed our brains, though. Or perhaps you don't believe we were born with one from jumpstreet? Confused
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
Antarctica and the Moon are your choices. You pick. sck


Well, if you put it that way, I guess Antarctica it is. sck

However, I was thinking more along the lines of some as yet uninhabited woods in, say, Kentucky, maybe? Big Grin

quote:
What would you say to someone who responded that you just don't want it badly enough and that you place the welfare of (in this example) Iraqis over your own? 15


Excellent question. Ummm ... I dunno! I guess I would definitely agree with them that I don't want it bad enough and that I consider us as a people within the overall scope of humanity as a whole. Therefore, I would not want to destroy another component of that just for my own benefit and live with the same consequences that I wish upon those who have done that same thing in the past.
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
That's the deal - do you take it?

Short answer... No way!

Long answer...

I'm not a supporter of Black Nationalism for many reasons. Most of them center around practicality, and this is a perfect example of the simply impractical.

This is a raw deal if I ever heard one. In giving us Iraq, the US just dumps a huge problem on us that they created for their own monetary benefit. They make the money and we clean up the mess. Then we get the land (what's left of it), assuming we win the 20+ year war it'll take to keep it. And what is that land actually worth? It has no natural resources other than oil... and that's not a renewable resource.

Then there are still the moral and ethical considerations of 1) Iraq is not their's to give away, and 2) We will be displacing the people who are already on that land and have a deep ancestral tie to it. We have a much stronger claim to land right here in North America than in Iraq. What sense would it make to give up what we have and what we are still owed on this continent... to go finish wars for the US government with a native people over a land we have no natural claim to whatsoever? Confused
lolBlack people can't even stop calling each other the "n" word and you want us do what? laugh

Many blacks don't even consider themselves African Americans-will not take ownership of the word....many do not want to even take ownership of their own children [child support issues] and masser want to give them an entire nation to own? Whose gonna pay rent? And by the way, You know masser's not gonna give blacks anything without a cost? I would be very septical[sp] cuz the holocaust wasn't too far in the past and any suggestion close to this would make me think they want to round blacks in one place and eliminate as many as they can! But getting back to point--a black nation?

First Blacks got to get along with each other and removed all this self-hating stuff as a result of slavery, and then Black men have to start respecting Black women openly and vice versa and thirdly, blacks must love their children correctly and develop positive reenforcements to keep their esteem high generationally. Then maybe.
But now? lol don't make me laugh! fro
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
quote:
Originally posted by Yssys:

That is just as bad as when the Europeans "gave" the Jews Israel.


Precisely - and that's the point. All these years later the world graciously accepts Israel and any challenges to their existence are considered out of the mainstream.

Your grandchildren would not have the stigma of having displaced anyone AND they would have their own nation.

Is that not valuable to you?


OK now I defined nationalism as black people controlling our politics, economics and social life of the communities where we are the majority. And with the ongoing trend of blacks moving back to the South, there is no reason that we can't control the south. We need to get it together. And I'll also point out that its been drilled in the heads of black people so long that we can't get together that some actually believe it. I can't subscribe to that lie because we wouldn't have made it as far as we did if we didn't get along and together. The people who put that lie out there don't want us to get along because when we do we are successful.
You're right they did put that "lie" out there but what's so sad we believed it! And promote it by the way we treat each other! No body can make us mistreat each other we do that on our own. I think it started when we began moving out of poverty and into better conditions and we took that "slave" mentality with us. Judging each other by the color of skins, grade of hair and ridiculous stuff like that. Look at how we respond to each other? Even today. Even on this site! So to think that we can get together long enough to do anything significant----? Well, we did it in the past cuz we had to---what is the motivation now? fro
quote:
Also, unlike you, I don't believe Black people to be too stupid to manufacture tractors and communications equipment and treatment plants. Given the money and opportunity we can develop anything and everything that would be needed to develop a turbine engine.



Ebony Rose:

Please show me where I said that BLACK PEOPLE "are STUPID"?

As rich as JP Morgan or Andrew Carnegie were BACK IN THE DAY....they could not have PURCHASED in the late 1800's the level of health care that is offered TO-DAMNED-DAY. STUPIDITY has little or nothing to do with it.

The fact is that A SELECT FEW COMPANIES IN THE WORLD MANUFACTURE THE HEAVY EQUIPMENT THAT I MENTIONED. This has less to do with RACE as it has to do with the SYSTEMS and MARKETS that are in place to make this happen.

Please make note that those on this board who have the most rebellious spirit about them (and who are "taken seriously" I might add) are the main one's SPITING UPON the "SYSTEM" that is in place to obtain the materials and technical skills necessary to build a tractor and HAVE THE FUEL necessary to operate it. I big SOLAR PANEL COLLECTOR on the back of a tractor is highly impractical.

Maybe one day you will spend some time STRAIGHTENING THEM OUT as much as you attempt to do with me? flowers
quote:
Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:
Ebony Rose:

Please show me where I said that BLACK PEOPLE "are STUPID"?


You say as much just about every time you post, CF. sck

You wanna know why the manufacturer of tractors is not African American? The system of American slavery. We did not have and could not get the resources that would have given us the opportunity to invent and produce things and infrastructure. Why? Because American corporations had their foot on our necks. Many of the things that were invented by Black people were not distributed and manufactured en masse, because it was basically against the law for a Black person to even have that much money! Eek

You always seem to want to go and stick your head in the ass of a White-owned corporation to get the things you need because you don't find Black corporations capable of supplying you with them. No, of course there's no Black-owned company as large and well-known as John Deere ... but, I've never heard you say anything along the lines of giving a smaller, less popular Black-owned company the opportunity and/or money to become bigger and more capable of mass production, so that they, too, can compete on a more universal level.

If there were a Black-owned company capable of making a tractor (and enough of them) to get started on the building of a new African American Nation ... would you buy from them? Or because their tractor was not green, would they not be worthy of your consideration? Confused

And, I'll tell you now ... you can say that you would consider them ... but I doubt I would believe you! Even it if is Christmas ... and I do believe in miracles! Smile
Peace....


quote:
What would you think about our current president coming to African America and offering to "give" us Iraq? We help to stabilize it and secure certain American interests there for which we would gain title to the land and the promise of security (to the degree that it can be given), a guarantee of certain payments and economic deals over a period of time, and assistance in executing our foreign policy in the region (i.e. part of the deal would be gaining Saudi Arabia and Israel's support to this).


If this was the only offer on the table, wisdom and prudence would demand that black people ask for a temporary stay in the negotiation process so that we could have an opportunity to throroughly examine the offer, and conduct a feasibility study. Once an adjournment was agreed upon, we could open negotiations with the major faction leaders in Iraq. We initiate the contact and make an offer.

We divide the power in Iraq agreeing to establishment of seveal sovereign states which would co exist in peace. We allow the muslimn leadership in our community to assume the vanguard position in the negotiation. Once we reached an agreement with indigenous population we then could return to the table to continue the transaction with the U.S government.




quote:
We could rename the country, execute whatever domestic policy toward the indigenous people we chose, or manage our foreign policy as we saw fit etc. The United States would also pay for free travel to the country and give every American going a "settlement package" that would secure them a job and home and vehicle.


In my view it would be best to secure a pact providing military support upon request by our new sovereign state, however, the initial plan would have to include the delivery of arms sufficient to protect our nation. We would ask for the immediate release from service all military personnel which chose to become members of the new free nation. These soldiers, along with other retired officials from the U.S. armed services could provide the primary defense for our nation.

quote:
The country would be under African American control 100% - in every way.


Beautiful..However I guess we would no longer be African Americans..Perhaps we could chose a more fitting nationality..

quote:
No doubt, this would be fraught with risks and danger. Like Israel, the country would probably be the focal point of considerable Arab aggression (at least for the next 50 - 75 years) BUT African Americans would have a permanent homeland.


Hence the pre-signing negotiation phase...If we could present the new Nation State as the lesser of two evils to the general population and also present it as the brainchild of not only the blacks but also of the faction leaders I think we wqould avoid this detail.

quote:
That's the deal - do you take it?


Reluctantly...But yes...



Whirling Moat
I believe that as long as there are MEN on this planet, no matter what anyone does as far as getting their own nation, they'll NEVER be able to LIVE in peace. Gather in one place, they'll KILL you in that place. It seems to me that the so-called "white" man will not be happy until he can own the whole earth, lock, stock and barrel. Whether or not, he'll be able to breathe amongst the depleted uranium, radiation, lack of water will make no difference. Just as long as he has allllllllllllll the money, gold, silver, oil; you know, the plush stuff, will be all that matters. All people darker than him, be gone!!!!!!! Forever!!!!!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Norland:
I believe that as long as there are MEN on this planet, no matter what anyone does as far as getting their own nation, they'll NEVER be able to LIVE in peace. Gather in one place, they'll KILL you in that place. It seems to me that the so-called "white" man will not be happy until he can own the whole earth, lock, stock and barrel. Whether or not, he'll be able to breathe amongst the depleted uranium, radiation, lack of water will make no difference. Just as long as he has allllllllllllll the money, gold, silver, oil; you know, the plush stuff, will be all that matters. All people darker than him, be gone!!!!!!! Forever!!!!!!!


fro I agree. But like history, white man is not gonna make it. He is gonna repeat what happened in Europe-disease, starvation and stupidity. He is gonna create another "dark" ages cuz Africans were the ones to bring white boy to light. We did it in a foreign country called America. White boy has never been able to keep anything long term. Eventually things will begin to deteoriate cuz white boy is not smart, he is not spiritual, he is just a sapien derived from the neantherals. He is gonna regress! He will bring himself to extinction....it's coming! Whether he conquer the world in the meantime....well I think the world appears to be conquered already but the funny this is when the world gets pissed ....things start to happen [like Tsuami, Katrina]...and there's nothing white boy or any other boy can do to stop it. Cuz despite popular belief ...the world really belongs to itself. fro
quote:
Originally posted by EbonyRose:
[
You say as much just about every time you post, CF. sck


Lord please help this Childe. 18

It seems that YOU have a problem in that you DIGEST WITHIN the misdeeds of all Black folks rather than REPUDIATING those that fall below your standards. Thus when I point out that a club for teens in a solidly Black middle class community was closed down on the first night it opened by GUN SHOTS, mass fighting and someone getting thrown though a PLATE GLASS WINDOW - you don't ask the question "WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE PARTICULAR PEOPLE WHO ARE BLACK AND HOW CAN WE FIX IT" you apparently take this in and say "anyone who dares point THIS OUT as some of the CONTRIBUTING FACTORS why there is AGGRESSIVE POLICING within these communities IN RESPONSE TO this behavior IS AGAINST THE BEST INTERESTS OF BLACK FOLKS".

My mission on this board is to HOLD UP CERTAIN CRITICAL POINTS THAT SOME BLACK FOLKS WOULD RATHER SWEEP UNDER THE RUG. If one is not LINKING THIS BEHAVIOR BY KIDS WHO WERE BORN BETWEEN 1986 AND 1990 TO THE LEGACY OF SLAVERY THEN IT APPEARS THAT YOU AND OTHERS DON'T WANT TO HEAR ABOUT IT. It is my position that THIS BEHAVIOR is not stemming from actions in 1850 but from the ABSENCE OF CERTAIN ELEMENTS that have taken place between 1986 and 2006 - WHEN THESE CHILDREN WERE INDOCTRINATED INTO THEIR CURRENT BELIEF SYSTEM.

quote:

You wanna know why the manufacturer of tractors is not African American? The system of American slavery. We did not have and could not get the resources that would have given us the opportunity to invent and produce things and infrastructure. Why? Because American corporations had their foot on our necks. Many of the things that were invented by Black people were not distributed and manufactured en masse, because it was basically against the law for a Black person to even have that much money! Eek


ER - I was thinking about you last night. hit

I was watching a show called "How It's Made". They showed how FRONT END LOADERS are made. These are heavy steel machines that require a bunch of technology and parts made from raw material from all over the world. FEW people WHITE OR BLACK have the skills to make this mammoth vehicle. I am not sure why you take my statement as RACIAL when I have CONSTANTLY noted that THE LAWS OF NATURE that were understood by, for example the European are now been "taken and run with" by the Indians, Chinese and other people around the world who are producing goods better than he is.

Folks want to talk about PRE-COLONIAL AFRICA. They want to talk about how certain SYSTEMS exploited Africa. They want to talk about pollution and exploiting the Earth. YET WE ALSO ARE LEAD TO BELIEVE THAT BEING BOUND AGAINST THESE PRINCIPLES THAT SOMETHING LIKE THE INTERNAL COMBUSTION ENGINE WOULD HAVE BEEN MADE IN AFRICA HAD THEY NOT BEEN MOLESTED BY THE WHITE MAN.

I say that there is NOTHING GENETIC OR INTELLECTUAL THAT WOULD HAVE BOUND THE AFRICAN FROM DOING ANYTHING. BUT the application of a certain dogma that many of you have AGAINST CAPITALISM, if practiced by a society with SELF DETERMINATION would have disallowed the development of these type of innovations. THEY WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN NEEDED.

Why do you place a value judgment on my words as if am saying that the African was INFERIOR in some way? MY ANCESTORS ARE FROM AFRICA, DAMNIT!! The fact is that YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.

Just as Manning Marable in his rant skewered capitalism, industrialization and imperialism he can't seem to bring himself to make note that HE FLEW TO JAMAICA in a plane that is the product of this very system. All of the parts, fuel, navigation policies and training to get his MARXIST AZZ TO THAT STAGE came from WAR, IMPERIALISM and a legacy of slavery, exploited workers, rich robber barons, etc. HIS EXISTENCE as well as theirs ARE FATALLY INTERTWINED.

He is arguing as if THEY ARE NOT, as he is the damning critic of all of it.

quote:

You always seem to want to go and stick your head in the ass of a White-owned corporation to get the things you need because you don't find Black corporations capable of supplying you with them. No, of course there's no Black-owned company as large and well-known as John Deere ... but, I've never heard you say anything along the lines of giving a smaller, less popular Black-owned company the opportunity and/or money to become bigger and more capable of mass production, so that they, too, can compete on a more universal level.

If there were a Black-owned company capable of making a tractor (and enough of them) to get started on the building of a new African American Nation ... would you buy from them? Or because their tractor was not green, would they not be worthy of your consideration? Confused

And, I'll tell you now ... you can say that you would consider them ... but I doubt I would believe you! Even it if is Christmas ... and I do believe in miracles! Smile


EbonyRose - I do work for a millionaire AFRICAN who owns a cement products business. For the first few months I only went to his OFFICE to do my work in IT. I did not know he was wealthy.

THEN I WENT TO HIS PRODUCTION PLANT. They have an $9 million building THAT IS WHOLLY OWNED by a close knit group of people from his country. (I am being purposely general).

I see GOOD OLE BOYS working there and I KNOW WHO THEIR BOSS IS.

He has a Black owned company but HIS EQUIPMENT IS PURCHASED FROM THOSE WHO MAKE THE HEAVY EQUIPMENT THAT HE NEEDS. This does not stop his company from employing many people and providing quality service.

(I gotta go - the wife is calling me to go to a family dinner. Merry Christmas to you to).
if you take it, colonization would no longer be only white.---listener

Europeans did not invent colonization.

Nations of the African continent were colonizing southern Europe, and the eastern-shore nations of the Mediterrean through the dynasties of Egypt.

'white' is a modern-day assumption that nothing existed before.

Claarly, such is the case in the history I was required to read which consistently interpreted the first time a European set foot in an area as 'discovery' for the world.

PEACE

Jim Chester
Yes I know that. The way in Germany how history is taught differs to America.
But it seems to be quite easy to blame whites for all the evils ever done (as I can read it very often).
If you go through a list of wars during the history of mankind, this really makes one thinking if people will ever be able to live in peace. I don't think so. Regardless nation, race, religion.

.
Yes I know that. The way in Germany how history is taught differs to America.
But it seems to be quite easy to blame whites for all the evils ever done (as I can read it very often).
If you go through a list of wars during the history of mankind, this really makes one thinking if people will ever be able to live in peace. I don't think so. Regardless nation, race, religion.---listener

The writers of history insist that be delivered from the perspective of the group of which the writer is a member.

The objective writer of history is the rarity.

David McCollough, a renown American writer of history, refused to acknowledge the truth of a history on Abraham Lincoln done by Dr. Lerone Bennett.

David McCollough would insistently refer to Lerone Bennett as a 'non-traditional historian'.

And he would ignored the issue of the truth of what was being presented by Bennett.

That is the attitude of those who benefit directly for the exercixe of power.

If the 'blame' you is refer is true, there can be no problem.


PEACE

Jim Chester
Back to my point EbonyRose:

If MY FEELINGS WERE as you claim then my feelings would be extended to this group of Africans IN MY REAL LIFE DEALINGS with them. Instead I have great respect for what they are doing. They have a reasonably large staff of employees working for them who are a rainbow of races. Yet all of the key positions in management and accounting is conducted by the Africans. They have White and Black American operations managers though.

When he purchased his heavy forklifts, his cement trucks, his crane and his computerized cement fabrication equipment it seems that he PURCHASED THE BEST TOOL FOR THE JOB. It is UNREALISTIC to expect him to hold out and "Buy Black" when in this highly specialized field there are so few players and not likely to be any wholly owned Black firms making this type of equipment.

In any event his job is to supply cement molded components to the companies that need it. He must satisfy his customers as his primary job. The owners are doing very well without putting a leather glove on and putting their fist in the air.
quote:
Originally posted by Saracen:
Peace....


quote:
What would you think about our current president coming to African America and offering to "give" us Iraq? We help to stabilize it and secure certain American interests there for which we would gain title to the land and the promise of security (to the degree that it can be given), a guarantee of certain payments and economic deals over a period of time, and assistance in executing our foreign policy in the region (i.e. part of the deal would be gaining Saudi Arabia and Israel's support to this).


If this was the only offer on the table, wisdom and prudence would demand that black people ask for a temporary stay in the negotiation process so that we could have an opportunity to throroughly examine the offer, and conduct a feasibility study. Once an adjournment was agreed upon, we could open negotiations with the major faction leaders in Iraq. We initiate the contact and make an offer.

We divide the power in Iraq agreeing to establishment of seveal sovereign states which would co exist in peace. We allow the muslimn leadership in our community to assume the vanguard position in the negotiation. Once we reached an agreement with indigenous population we then could return to the table to continue the transaction with the U.S government.




quote:
We could rename the country, execute whatever domestic policy toward the indigenous people we chose, or manage our foreign policy as we saw fit etc. The United States would also pay for free travel to the country and give every American going a "settlement package" that would secure them a job and home and vehicle.


In my view it would be best to secure a pact providing military support upon request by our new sovereign state, however, the initial plan would have to include the delivery of arms sufficient to protect our nation. We would ask for the immediate release from service all military personnel which chose to become members of the new free nation. These soldiers, along with other retired officials from the U.S. armed services could provide the primary defense for our nation.

quote:
The country would be under African American control 100% - in every way.


Beautiful..However I guess we would no longer be African Americans..Perhaps we could chose a more fitting nationality..

quote:
No doubt, this would be fraught with risks and danger. Like Israel, the country would probably be the focal point of considerable Arab aggression (at least for the next 50 - 75 years) BUT African Americans would have a permanent homeland.


Hence the pre-signing negotiation phase...If we could present the new Nation State as the lesser of two evils to the general population and also present it as the brainchild of not only the blacks but also of the faction leaders I think we wqould avoid this detail.

quote:
That's the deal - do you take it?


Reluctantly...But yes...



Whirling Moat



What about the protection of Black people who remain in the United States?

What do you think the social climate will turn towards for them.. they will become even more of a minority?

Will having a homeland bolster their status or hinder it some how?
quote:
My mission on this board is to HOLD UP CERTAIN CRITICAL POINTS THAT SOME BLACK FOLKS WOULD RATHER SWEEP UNDER THE RUG.



**It is amazing how this fool thinks that he can actually assess the mindsets of others based on how HE views things and not on the basis of tangible evidence where the individuals express what THEY think.....I look at the stupid schit he states such as "in Kevin41's world"...or "according to what PersonX thinks"....as a basis for presenting his own argument....ht sounds like a delusional teenage girl who is trying to paint her own picture of reality to fit the stupid azz way she views things......now what ever really makes him think that highlighting how pfucked up black people are and how black people are politically confused without any types of MEASURABLE alternatives or recommendations has any substance and amounts to anything more than self-loathing is amazing......who does he think he is bullshitting? and that is my thing with blkCONS....they are rather insulting because they try to deal with black people en masse in the same manner their white masters deal with them from....as if they are dumb subordinates and unable to think progressively for themselves....they feed you that "just because" child analysis of issues and wonder why their slant never sells.....but I imagine the level of rebuttal he receives still does not tell him anything....in terms of how off-kilter his views truly are.........
fro Just like Europe, Africa is experiencing its own kind of dark ages. Prior to that, Africa was successful for millions of years. At one time, Africa was considered the most intelligent of the world! Many from afar sent their children to places like Egypt and Ethopia just to learn the basic of mathematics, the sciences, art, music, literature-just to name a few.

Africa is the cradle of civilization[this has now been begrudgingly proven by white anthropologists, archaelogists, paleoanthropolists]-our ancestors have done it all including space travel. That being said, it is no question our ability to accomplish anything. We do what we need to do. It is innate in us as humans. As homo sapiens who have reached the limit of evolution, what keeps us here is our capacity to adapt-geologically, environmentally, culturally, socially and physically. So whether it's building a civilization or building a "tractor" we haven't lost that skill. What we[African-Americans] have lost is our ability to develop socialization tools with each other [which was once ingrained in our hertiage in Africa] to ensure the next level of survival for our offsprings. If anything, this is what has been lost since being in America. Cuz as long as people have the ability to think, they will always be able to create and survive. That taken away, surely extinction in whatever system is in the cards--look at Rwanda, New Orleans-same thing! Without social tools we are doomed. fro
Last edited {1}
quote:
Originally posted by Kocolicious:
fro Just like Europe, Africa is experiencing its own kind of dark ages. Prior to that, Africa was successful for millions of years. At one time, Africa was considered the most intelligent of the world! Many from afar sent their children to places like Egypt and Ethopia just to learn the basic of mathematics, the sciences, art, music, literature-just to name a few.

Africa is the cradle of civilization[this has now been begrudgingly proven by white anthropologists, archaelogists, paleoanthropolists]-our ancestors have done it all including space travel. That being said, it is no question our ability to accomplish anything. We do what we need to do. It is innate in us as humans. As homo sapiens who have reached the limit of evolution, what keeps us here is our capacity to adapt-geologically, environmentally, culturally, socially and physically. So whether it's building a civilization or building a "tractor" we haven't lost that skill. What we[African-Americans] have lost is our ability to develop socialization tools with each other [which was once ingrained in our hertiage in Africa] to ensure the next level of survival for our offsprings. If anything, this is what has been lost since being in America. Cuz as long as people have the ability to think, they will always be able to create and survive. That taken away, surely extinction in whatever system is in the cards--look at Rwanda, New Orleans-same thing! Without social tools we are doomed. fro


Amen to that, Kocolicious!! tfro
quote:
Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:
Why do you place a value judgment on my words as if am saying that the African was INFERIOR in some way? MY ANCESTORS ARE FROM AFRICA, DAMNIT!! The fact is that YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.


All the rest of what you said was a bunch of nothing that had nothing to do with this post. But, this I will address.

It's not that you say that the African was inferior, CF. It's that you say that the African (especially the American version) STILL IS inferior! Eek

We are talking about African Americans building a nation here ... at least, most of the rest of us are. sck And what you did not say, CF, was that if given the resources and opportunity, African Americans can build their own nation. Your first impulse was to say that we wouldn't be able to do it because we would have to go to John Deere in order to get tractors. Not only that, when the suggestion came up regarding African Americans manufacturing their own tools and equipment to do the job (having the resources and opportunity to do so) you still stood by your desire to stick your head up some corporations butt as the most viable answer.

So, tell me CF ... yes or no ... if, let's say, Oprah (An African American) were to bankroll a tractor manufacturing plant either here or in Africa, even ... to support this effort and this plant only employed African (American) workers ... do you believe that a tractor could/would ever get off the assembly line? Or do you think our people are incapable of handling such a dubious mission?

You seem to advocate Black people doing for themselves ... and on the other hand, don't believe they are capable of doing whatever is necessary to do it. And for some reason you absolutely refuse to even recognize let alone accept the most base reason why not!! Eek It's incredible you can talk sooooo much and still not have a clue!! Eek

"John Deere" started his company in 1837. A time when Black folks were killed for learning to read and write. We are not incapable of taking care of ourselves, CF. We were just held back for a couple of centuries from doing so are just now catching up after breaking down the major barrier to being able to do so just 40 years ago! Eek

African Americans generate an economy larger than some small countries. We are making advances in every walk of life on every level. The many "firsts" that you see us making in news stories are not firsts because we've been stupid all these years, but we because it's the first time that we've had the opportunity in those areas.

Just because your ancestors were from Africa doesn't mean you have pride in being Black. You come to this board with no faith in our people, with a constant barrage of chastising us for every little thing wrong with our community ... never to pass along positive stories of uplift and progress. No, you post about the good deeds Hispanics and Asians and Native Americans do ... but where are your "good job Black people" stories, CF? Confused Or are there none in your world? 19
quote:
Originally posted by MBM:
In another thread the notion of black nationalism arose. Here's a (clearly hypothetical) situation. What would you do? If you were in negotiation with Bush about this, what other terms and conditions would you attempt to secure? Negotiations with Bush??? Out of all the people.......I'm astonished that you entertain the idea.No
What would you think about our current president coming to African America and offering to "give" us Iraq? Honestly, whose going to give us anything without something in return....and that "something" being 10 times worth more than we recieve. We help to stabilize it and secure certain American interests (what interests?) there for which we would gain title to the land and the promise of security (to the degree that it can be given) ek, a guarantee of certain payments and economic deals over a period of time, and assistance in executing our foreign policy in the region (i.e. part of the deal would be gaining Saudi Arabia and Israel's support to this). Whose foreign policy do you speak of?
We could rename the country, execute whatever domestic policy toward the indigenous people we chose, or manage our foreign policy as we saw fit etc. racist The United States would also pay for free travel to the country and give every American going a "settlement package" that would secure them a job and home and vehicle.

The country would be under African American control 100% - in every way.

No doubt, this would be fraught with risks and danger. Like Israel, the country would probably be the focal point of considerable Arab aggression (at least for the next 50 - 75 years) BUT African Americans would have a permanent homeland.


That's the deal - do you take it?


NoWe can make it right here in the U.S.

Add Reply

Post
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×