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And the quote above has given me a new context or way of seeing. I didn't put that very eloquently, but I think/hope you know what I'm saying.---art_girl

I am reminded that I got my inspiration to design a flag that specific to and for African America from an Australian.

The winner of the women's 800-meters (I think) took her victory lap carrying the flag of the native Australian.

I was so proud for her.

I began with that model which was the Australian flag on one side, the Australian Native flag on the other.

I settled on the final design in early 1997.

We learn from each other.


PEACE

Jim Chester
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
quote:
Originally posted by Fagunwa:
What is the real difference between an African born in Africa and an African born in america? If you saw me walking in your local supermarket you would not be able to tell I was born in Nigeria at all. I have heard it a million times " I thought you were born here, you don't look African". This comes from African american americans, I tell them "you do".

I am not trying to be funny I really want to know, in real terms what is the difference?


I think it's like KISONGO (WELCOME BACK!) said, we are different culturally. The Yoruba are culturally different from the Xhosa, so I don't understand those who don't want to recognize that American blacks are also culturally different from, say the Xhosa. Hell, when I met my brother & sister (technically "halfs") for the first time, I was struck by a few "cultural" (mostly linguistic) differneces between us, from the Northeast to down south.

But like I said in another post up above, that cultural difference should not, and in fact absolutely must not, give rise to any kind of comraderie gap. We are all one, in a very real sense, regardless of cultural differences. And even culturally, distinct as we are, there are clearly recognizable, powerful strands of ties that bind. So I just don't see the problem in recognizing the differences while embracing each other.


I agree with acknowledging and celebrating and aprreciating cultural differences, but the problem I see is that most folks seperate or name differences between Africans born in Amerikkka and all of Africans born on the continent as if continental Africans are one homogenous group and Africans in Amerikkka are drastically different from 'them' as a whole....

'They'(folks hung up on categorizating the differences between continental Africans and Africans born in Amerikkka) are not typically appreciating cultural differences, they usually lump together 'those Africans' from the continent reguardless of the differences in regions, nation-states, linguistics, and ethnic groups ect...while excluding themselves from 'their' category.

It is usually an us/them division...not one based on cultural appreciation.
'They'(folks hung up on categorizating the differences between continental Africans and Africans born in Amerikkka) are not typically appreciating cultural differences, they usually lump together 'those Africans' from the continent reguardless of the differences in regions, nation-states, linguistics, and ethnic groups ect...while excluding themselves from 'their' category.

It is usually an us/them division...not one based on cultural appreciation.---Oshun Auset

I agree.

Your comment gives me 'cause to pause'.

I also noted, for the second time, Fagunwa's response of 'You do.' to a 'looking born in America' comment. I didn't comment because I didn't want to create an issue where there really is none.

In the distinctions I make, I am categorical, because I believe peoples of African nations are categorically people from Africa.

I didn't make distinctions of culture because it is not an issue.

Similarly, I don't make distinctions in the people from Maine versus the people from Louisiana. While they are of common citizenship, they are clearly of different cultures.

The same is true with the people of Alaska and Florida; Mississippi and Alabama; Illinois and Missouri; Pennsylvania and Georgia.

The distinction I am drawing is the uniqueness of Americans who are African American versus all the peoples of Africa.

While at the same time recognizing an African ancestry even though unknown.

We, as a people, are as much entitle to the recognition of our unique heritage as every other people in the world.


PEACE

Jim Chester
quote:
Originally posted by Fagunwa:
What is the real difference between an African born in Africa and an African born in america? If you saw me walking in your local supermarket you would not be able to tell I was born in Nigeria at all. I have heard it a million times " I thought you were born here, you don't look African". This comes from African american americans, I tell them "you do".

I am not trying to be funny I really want to know, in real terms what is the difference?


Dear Fagunwa,
Interesting question. Well for starters, I too did not look for differences in the way African-born Africans and American-born Africans
but as experience has taught me, to continue to view things as if there is no percieved differences is to be blind to reality. Unfortunately, the relationships between African-born Africans and those of us born here is one tainted of misunderstanding and jealousy if I may and even worse, mistrust.
Fagunwa, I was actually born here and did not understand in the slightiest about the country of my parents' origin. I went there for the first time at the age of 11 years. I will say that I did not enjoy the 8 years I was there. I did not fully assimulated the culture and belief system.
But to answer your question, I think the difference or percieved difference arises from misunderstanding, jealousy and mistrust between African-born Africans and American-born Africans.
The misunderstanding arises from the differences in the prospective views on the world especially regarding being black in the world. This i think is a function of the age at which the person was uprooted from the place of the childhood and exposed to the other. The older the person was at the time of relocation, the higher the chance the person will be more culturally conservative with respect to the place of their childhood. With this in mind, the worldwiew of the African-born African will be different from that of an American-born African which in generally tends to be more Americanized. So, when the two meet, you have the one that feels that the other is not true African, that the one could never be a true African but yet express a hint of jealousy that the other seemingly has more opportunities in one place. Being an American-born African, my experience includes actual expectations by the Africans born in Africa to be more than willing to assist them to ease their transition in the States by marrying them for a green card...and that folks like me have it so good but we don't know how hard it is to come from Africa to struggle to get established here. On the flip side, Africans born here due to the lack of a deep understanding of Africa may seem uninformed or uninterested in things in Africa.
With that stance, it comes clear that mistrust will arise especially in Africans born here in the States after interacting with Africans born in Africa. I guess one gets tired of being expected to be a sacrificial lamb for others to get established only to be told that you are not a true African and that I should be happy and most willing to assist the true Africans without question or expectations.
bunk that, I say...so after bumping into the wall a number of times in the pursuit of discovering my Nigerian self....I decided that I will be comfortable wioth the little I know of my parents'land and culture and fully persue that the first culture I first knew as a child.
quote:
Originally posted by James Wesley Chester:
I am reminded that I got my inspiration to design a flag that specific to and for African America from an Australian.

The winner of the women's 800-meters (I think) took her victory lap carrying the flag of the native Australian.

I was so proud for her.

I began with that model which was the Australian flag on one side, the Australian Native flag on the other.

I settled on the final design in early 1997.

We learn from each other.




That would be Kathy Freeman at the 2000 Olympics? Yes she - and that statement - was very impressive. Aside from her sporting ability, and success, what is so impressive about Kathy is her total lack of pretence, and warm, down-to-earth, engaging personality. She's about as 'natural' as it gets. tfro

I haven't met her personally but every time she is interviewed or makes a guest appearance on TV she is so 'real' and quite girl-like.

Discussion here rages on and off about changing the Australian blue, red, white, flag... if there was to be a change, I would like to see a combination of the aboriginal flag and the Southern Cross stars on our current one.

A question though JWC about your flag please...? I'm trying to work out what you've based it on, aside fromt he obvious stars'n'stripes? The closest match I can find are the flags of either Burkina or Madagascar? Help me out here pls? Smile

Looking at the various flags of Africa, I count about 48! I think the nicest ones are for Kenya and Malawi.

Oh, and while I'm asking... EbonyRose... what country does your flag avatar represent? Maybe I just have an old atlas? Confused but I would like to know.

Thanks.
Thanks for asking!!!!!1

I love to talk about our flag!!

After several choices, I decided that the final flag had to recognize and represent our ties to Africa while presenting the reality that we as a people are indigenous to America.

The term indigenous caused me difficulty, as it does many African Americans who first encounter its use in this context.

Indigenous is not used in the sense of first occurrence as humans. Rather it indicates that this place is where we first occurred as a people, unique in our circumstance; unique in our history; unique in our experience.

Historically, our ancestors were brought from many lands in Africa; many languages; many religions; many traditions; all different from each other.

All of these different people were forced into a system that prohibited the acknowledgment and practice of any of those things from Africa.

We were forced into a condition of ignorance (not knowing) our former selves. We were forced to become what Europeans said we were; often under the penalty of death.

That was sustained by 'gentleman's agreement', and a loose alliance of laws from the early 1500s to 1789.

At that time, the formal delineation of our 'place' became the rule-of-law of the new Republic of the United States of America in its Constitution.

At the same time, meetings of Free Africans were being initiated (1787). The Free Africans began the development of a construction of 'safe haven' for people of unknown African ancestry.

It continues to this day.

It is African America.

The flag, and I know I took a long time getting here, had to represent that reality as well.

I selected the banner of Marcus Garvey's 'back to Africa' movement of the 1920s. EbonyRose uses it as her avatar. it is commonly called the Red, Black, and Green, or RBG.

You will see the acronym in MBM's signature.

The Garvey Movement was not about nationality, ancestral or otherwise. It was about leaving the various nations of the African Diaspora, and going back to Africa, the origin, known or unknown, of our ancestors.

I also select the canton, the star-field, of the 'Stars and Stripe' of the United States. I intentionlly did not use the 'stripes', because the represent the thirteen original colonies that used that 'loose alliance of laws' to oppress and exploit us as a people from the beginning.

In addition to symbolizing our citizenship, the stars are 50 'badges of success' in surviving in the sovereign States of the Union.

To prevent any confusion about whose flag it is, I added the title of our national anthem, 'Lift Ev'ry Voice and Sing.'

Thank again for asking.

PEACE

Jim Chester
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Thanks JWC for your generous response and added historical perspective. Smile

I have heard of, but have not read/know much about Marcus Garvey.
I seem to already have an extensive reading list on African American history & culture for a beginner like myself. And the pile of books keeps growing - gasp!

I'm still 'chewing my way through' Micheal Gomez's book Reversing Sail - and finding it a helpful history book to read about the African Diaspora. Next on the list is Airing Dirty Laundry and Mumbo Jumbo.

As to your initial reluctance to use the word indigenous, might I be so bold as to suggest an alternative...the term "unique to...America" ? "Without an equal or equivalent; unparalleled. Characteristic of a particular category, condition, or locality."

I've always really like this word - I associate it to mean positive, special and valuable.

Just a thought anyway.
Om shanti Smile
"unique to...America"---art_girl

Thanks for the suggestion.

A part of my goal is to adjust the use of language in America.

Typically, 'indigenous' means 'original to', 'native to', as used in America's English.

African American-Americans can, rightly, be argued to original to Africa., but not so as 'a people.'

There is a great disconnect that does not enable identity to be established.

While our origin occurred in America, it was out suppress as a people, oppression if you will.

We created our survival in spite of the will of America.

I would not want any level of credit be assigned to America for our survival, and African America is about survival.

Indigenous is the right word.

America will just have to adjust.

Thanks again.


PEACE

Jim Chester
First JWC you need to re-read my post my reply to the gentleman who said "You don't look like you was born in Africa" was "you do". Second have you ever been to Africa?

I am always amazed at how some folks make their issues a philosophy, a worldview. Folobatuyi I feel you. I was born in Ile Ife and came here when I was 10 years old. The first time I returned I was 15 years old and I loved it. I was told I was not a "real African" because I was american now. Well they didn't say american they said the other "a word". I have never laughed so hard in my life. I felt my laughter in my sack. You would enjoy Nigeria now if you enjoy Cleveland. The same american disrespect for elders, materialism and disgusting song lyrics is present there nowadays. And yes someone will want you to marry them for a green card.

Is being an African cultural? Of course! But there are thousands of different cultures on the continent and in the diaspora, all are African. When I walk in Newtown, Ghana I see the same face I see in Lynchburg, Va. When I walk in Ile Ife, Nigeria I see the same faces I saw in Brooklyn. NY when I was living there.The same loudness I heard in Senegal I heard in 5th ward in Houston, only the language was different. Even the physical gestures were the same in these places.

Thank you all for your responses. This is my last post on this board and I'd like to say good-bye and may your ancestors and the divinities continue to shine light in dark places.
quote:
JWC: There is no insult to anyone assert who you are.

And...who you are not.

I too feel resentment when lumped with others of African ancestry who immigrated, or are descendant from those immigrated, i.e. of their own free will.

I am an American who is African American, i.e. an American of unknown African ancestry.

I am not an American who is simply African.

I am an African American-American.



JWC
Your definition can be extended to include: I am an American who is African American, i.e. an American of unknown African ancestry who walked through the "door of no return" to the "worst" slavery in human history. Indigenous.(Indigenous is the right word.)


Our ancestories were considered property, 1/4 human, and mere savages stripped of African heritage, traditions, even our name was taken.
I burn with anger and my heart aches when I think how my ancestors suffered through slavery in America.

I am not out to offend anyone but you have to be "US" to understand.

I agree with your JWC's comments so eloguently put: We created our survival in spite of the will of America. I would not want any level of credit be assigned to America for our survival, and African America is about survival.
hi everybody, thanks for the warm welcome back.

First of all I want to apologize about my English. Yes I am a newcomer in the West (in Canada where I currently live, so it's true I am newcomer in America!).

For those of you who see no "differences" between the diverse peoples of African ancestry, well let me ask you why we don't "hang out" together? Because most of us prefer to stay between our own people and own cultures....And I want to addresss Oshun-Auset particularly, Africans born on the continent usually "prefer" to have relations with other Africans born on the continent. It's true what I am saying.. I'm from Angola and I don't speak the same native language than an East African, plus we don't look alike, etc. But relations between us come "easier" because of the fact that we know Africa, and our basic lifestyles are not "Western.."

I know many Caribbean Blacks and I befriend African Americans when I went to the US. Yet I am "close" friend with none of them, why is that? I think because I see them totally "westernized" in their look, in their tastes, desires and concerns. How many African Americans know about Africa or would like to travel to Africa? How many African Americans or Carribean Blacks speak an African language and/or and enjoy listening African music? Personally, I know any.

It's beautiful to talk about "Panafricanism" and to fantasize about the Old Africa, but what about reality and what's happening "today" on the continent? We are "different" period.

It's true that In Africa alone, Black people are different between regions and countries, but excuse me I feel more connection with a Fang or an Igbo than I have with an African American, I am Luba. Nonewithstanding that Black Africans from the continent have almost the same traditional rites and habits, so it's a lot easier for us to connect.

It mights hurts some people on this website to read me, but I speak truth. And we continental Africans (most of us at least) have no "contempt" towards Diasporian "Africans," but we just don't see any cultural similarities with you. And the worse thing is that we see no desire from you in general to connect with us. I see African Americans being more into Indian or Far Eastern culture and folkore than I see them for Black African continental culture. I repeat, POLITICAL UNITY no problem but above that.. you people better check reality!

And for the one poster who talk about that we face the "same" opression around the world. Let me tell you this, misery of oppression in Africa today is a millions times worse than what I see here in the West. I am not dismissing what AFrican Americans have accomplished for themselves in America, and the racism they have to go through today, but if you think Africans on the continent have remain idle in the struggle then you are so ignorant. Check out the Patrice Lumumba and Thomas Sankhara of AFrica and tell me if they have done nothing for Black dignity and freedom in the world. So I tkink I owe nothing to African Americans in particular for my luck to live with more security and dignity in the West today and for the knowledge of who I am!

We are basically a different peoples who still have to really know and be concerned about each other.. Until then there will be no real "unity" among us and above all no "substancial" victory against the white man..

And I wish to speak about Fagunwa.. I think that when you are born in the West, you can no longer be or feel like an original African. Or at least I mean, it's easier for you to think the way you do because you were born in the US. You have more the same desires and habits with African Americans because you were born in the US and grew up in the US. But for someone like me who was born home in the most traditional surroundings (in a village) and grew up filled with my ancestral habits and tastes how can I ever be or think like you? And many Africans like myself are living in the West not because they like it, but to survive. Wars and starvation forced us to flee in the West but why do we have to become westernized to "connect" with you? Newcomer Asians or Arabs protect their tradition and are more at ease among people like themselves with whom them can relate. So why this harsh criticism for only continental Africans?
Last edited {1}
quote:
Originally posted by KISONGO:
hi everybody, thanks for the warm welcome back.

First of all I want to apologize about my English. Yes I am a newcomer in the West (in Canada where I currently live, so it's true I am newcomer in America!).

For those of you who see no "differences" between the diverse peoples of African ancestry, well let me ask you why we don't "hang out" together? Because most of us prefer to stay between our own people and own cultures....And I want to addresss Oshun-Auset particularly, Africans born on the continent usually "prefer" to have relations with other Africans born on the continent. It's true what I am saying.. I'm from Angola and I don't speak the same native language than an East African, plus we don't look alike, etc. But relations between us come "easier" because of the fact that we know Africa, and our basic lifestyles are not "Western.."

I know many Caribbean Blacks and I befriend African Americans when I went to the US. Yet I am "close" friend with none of them, why is that? I think because I see them totally "westernized" in their look, in their tastes, desires and concerns. How many African Americans know about Africa or would like to travel to Africa? How many African Americans or Carribean Blacks speak an African language and/or and enjoy listening African music? Personally, I know any.

It's beautiful to talk about "Panafricanism" and to fantasize about the Old Africa, but what about reality and what's happening "today" on the continent? We are "different" period.

It's true that In Africa alone, Black people are different between regions and countries, but excuse me I feel more connection with a Fang or an Igbo than I have with an African American, I am Luba. Nonewithstanding that Black Africans from the continent have almost the same traditional rites and habits, so it's a lot easier for us to connect.

It mights hurts some people on this website to read me, but I speak truth. And we continental Africans (most of us at least) have no "contempt" towards Diasporian "Africans," but we just don't see any cultural similarities with you. And the worse thing is that we see no desire from you in general to connect with us. I see African Americans being more into Indian or Far Eastern culture and folkore than I see them for Black African continental culture. I repeat, POLITICAL UNITY no problem but above that.. you people better check reality!

And for the one poster who talk about that we face the "same" opression around the world. Let me tell you this, misery of oppression in Africa today is a millions times worse than what I see here in the West. I am not dismissing what AFrican Americans have accomplished for themselves in America, and the racism they have to go through today, but if you think Africans on the continent have remain idle in the struggle then you are so ignorant. Check out the Patrice Lumumba and Thomas Sankhara of AFrica and tell me if they have done nothing for Black dignity and freedom in the world. So I tkink I owe nothing to African Americans in particular for my luck to live with more security and dignity in the West today and for the knowledge of who I am!

We are basically a different peoples who still have to really know and be concerned about each other.. Until then there will be no real "unity" among us and above all no "substancial" victory against the white man..

And I wish to speak about Fagunwa.. I think that when you are born in the West, you can no longer be or feel like an original African. Or at least I mean, it's easier for you to think the way you do because you were born in the US. You have more the same desires and habits with African Americans because you were born in the US and grew up in the US. But for someone like me who was born home in the most traditional surroundings (in a village) and grew up filled with my ancestral habits and tastes how can I ever be or think like you? And many Africans like myself are living in the West not because they like it, but to survive. Wars and starvation forced us to flee in the West but why do we have to become westernized to "connect" with you? Newcomer Asians or Arabs protect their tradition and are more at ease among people like themselves with whom them can relate. So why this harsh criticism for only continental Africans?


My name is Fagunwa Oladayo Fatunmise. I was born in Ile Ife, Nigeria. I am Anago "Yoruba".I have no need for a Luba or anyone else to "connect" with me. My needs for connection are fulfilled by my wife. As for your statement that continental Africans are not westernized that is a lie. Some of the most materialistic, pentacostal bible thumping people I know are continental Africans. You must not have been home recently or you must not really understand what being "westernized" means.

The differences between the continental African and the diasporic African are cultural and no one denies this, but to say that you must become "westernized" to become friends with them says more about you than it does about them. I think my experiences with AA's speaks closer to the truth, Be yourself and be real and you will see how beautiful and friendly some diasporic Africans are. Every decent human responds to sincerity when they receive it. No human responds well to someone putting them down.
I agree with your JWC's comments so eloguently put: We created our survival in spite of the will of America. I would not want any level of credit be assigned to America for our survival, and African America is about survival.---Diamond

I seldom talk about my leaving the 'stripe' out of my creation of the African American flag.
In fact, I seldom talk about the flag being that it is its own statement as my avatar.

But I am gald you were 'listering', and absolutely thrilled that you agree.

The things that belong to us should celebrate us.


PEACE

Jim Chester
Its very interesting to hear two different opinions from Africans, Kisongo and Fagunwa.

I have a Nigerian graduate-student intern this summer. She is a wonderful young person, who is sweet and very friendly. One on One, I have gotten to know her well enough to ask if she had experienced any form of racism since she's been in America. Her answer was shocking. She told me yes, as an undergraduate by African American students. White students were more accepting of her. I was appalled and didn't and don't understand why African American youth would be unfriendly to an African.
quote:
Originally posted by Fagunwa:
quote:
Originally posted by KISONGO:
hi everybody, thanks for the warm welcome back.

First of all I want to apologize about my English. Yes I am a newcomer in the West (in Canada where I currently live, so it's true I am newcomer in America!).

For those of you who see no "differences" between the diverse peoples of African ancestry, well let me ask you why we don't "hang out" together? Because most of us prefer to stay between our own people and own cultures....And I want to addresss Oshun-Auset particularly, Africans born on the continent usually "prefer" to have relations with other Africans born on the continent. It's true what I am saying.. I'm from Angola and I don't speak the same native language than an East African, plus we don't look alike, etc. But relations between us come "easier" because of the fact that we know Africa, and our basic lifestyles are not "Western.."

I know many Caribbean Blacks and I befriend African Americans when I went to the US. Yet I am "close" friend with none of them, why is that? I think because I see them totally "westernized" in their look, in their tastes, desires and concerns. How many African Americans know about Africa or would like to travel to Africa? How many African Americans or Carribean Blacks speak an African language and/or and enjoy listening African music? Personally, I know any.

It's beautiful to talk about "Panafricanism" and to fantasize about the Old Africa, but what about reality and what's happening "today" on the continent? We are "different" period.

It's true that In Africa alone, Black people are different between regions and countries, but excuse me I feel more connection with a Fang or an Igbo than I have with an African American, I am Luba. Nonewithstanding that Black Africans from the continent have almost the same traditional rites and habits, so it's a lot easier for us to connect.

It mights hurts some people on this website to read me, but I speak truth. And we continental Africans (most of us at least) have no "contempt" towards Diasporian "Africans," but we just don't see any cultural similarities with you. And the worse thing is that we see no desire from you in general to connect with us. I see African Americans being more into Indian or Far Eastern culture and folkore than I see them for Black African continental culture. I repeat, POLITICAL UNITY no problem but above that.. you people better check reality!

And for the one poster who talk about that we face the "same" opression around the world. Let me tell you this, misery of oppression in Africa today is a millions times worse than what I see here in the West. I am not dismissing what African Americans have accomplished for themselves in America, and the racism they have to go through today, but if you think Africans on the continent have remain idle in the struggle then you are so ignorant. Check out the Patrice Lumumba and Thomas Sankhara of AFrica and tell me if they have done nothing for Black dignity and freedom in the world. So I tkink I owe nothing to African Americans in particular for my luck to live with more security and dignity in the West today and for the knowledge of who I am!

We are basically a different peoples who still have to really know and be concerned about each other.. Until then there will be no real "unity" among us and above all no "substancial" victory against the white man..

And I wish to speak about Fagunwa.. I think that when you are born in the West, you can no longer be or feel like an original African. Or at least I mean, it's easier for you to think the way you do because you were born in the US. You have more the same desires and habits with African Americans because you were born in the US and grew up in the US. But for someone like me who was born home in the most traditional surroundings (in a village) and grew up filled with my ancestral habits and tastes how can I ever be or think like you? And many Africans like myself are living in the West not because they like it, but to survive. Wars and starvation forced us to flee in the West but why do we have to become westernized to "connect" with you? Newcomer Asians or Arabs protect their tradition and are more at ease among people like themselves with whom them can relate. So why this harsh criticism for only continental Africans?


My name is Fagunwa Oladayo Fatunmise. I was born in Ile Ife, Nigeria. I am Anago "Yoruba".I have no need for a Luba or anyone else to "connect" with me. My needs for connection are fulfilled by my wife. As for your statement that continental Africans are not westernized that is a lie. Some of the most materialistic, pentacostal bible thumping people I know are continental Africans. You must not have been home recently or you must not really understand what being "westernized" means.

The differences between the continental African and the diasporic African are cultural and no one denies this, but to say that you must become "westernized" to become friends with them says more about you than it does about them. I think my experiences with AA's speaks closer to the truth, Be yourself and be real and you will see how beautiful and friendly some diasporic Africans are. Every decent human responds to sincerity when they receive it. No human responds well to someone putting them down.

You certainly have the right to your opinion and I have the right to mine based on "my" experience. I have never felt welcomed by any African Diasporian, I have never felt any desire by them (even those with parents born on the continent) to know more about African culture above the superficiality or the fashionable.

You talk so much about African religion, for me to only speak about religion to African Americans and not to inform them about the "daily life" in Africa is nonesense. Perhaps I've been in this website not long enough to proprely judge you, but I am making my comments based on the posts I have read so far about you and by you.

I am not seeking animosity on this website. I am just an African from the continent who have been in the West a few years (not all my life like you), and I make my comments based on my experience.

Newcomer Africans meet racism not only by whites but also by their own so-called borthers and sisters who are "westernized." Perhaps me using the word "westernized" is not really accurate, but I mean that Blacks in America or the Caribbean have more the look, the tastes and the habits of white people, to deny that is hypocrite. Of course I know bible fanatics form the continent who love Armani suits and straight hair, but no matter the way they behave they remain African. It's just the way it is. I will recognize an African form the continent right away even if he or she was dressed like an European and trying to ape an white person. If you were born and raised on the continent there is this "air" about you that you nobody can remove.. However, on tthe Diasporian African side it has been removed a long time ago, and most of them are satisfied with that, after all AFrica is so bad, so sad, so ugly etc..so are their peoples.

You are defending AFrican Americans more than you defend Africans form the continent who are victimized everyday because of their so-called ugly look, attire and so-called backward ways. Will you deny that Diasporian Africans won't build a bridge with us most of the time? I am not creating division among us, it exists already. To solve this problem we have to look at ourselves in the mirroir once and for all, if we can.
quote:
How many African Americans know about Africa or would like to travel to Africa? How many African Americans or Carribean Blacks speak an African language and/or and enjoy listening African music?

Let's do a poll with these questions on the African American population.. The results will confirm what I am talking about. Let's check ourselves in the mirroir.
Kisongo ...

With all due respect, in your postings on this thread, I sense an air of superiority and insecurity, all at once. Maybe this is what has come across to the Diasporic Africans that you have encountered.

If there is to be a unity between Diasporic and Continental Africans, it must begin in a place of MUTUAL interest and MUTUAL respect.

While I have a sincere desire to connect with the culture and peoples of the Continent, my worldview dictates that all that is African is not necessarily immediately from and/or domiciled in the Continent. And because something/someone was from or born/raised/lives on the Continent does not make it/him/her "better than" or "more proper than" those or that which was created and exists in the Diaspora.

Bottomline my Brother/Sister, it's not about you; it's about US. Approach others in this manner and watch the response.
quote:
Originally posted by Kweli4Real:
Kisongo ...

With all due respect, in your postings on this thread, I sense an air of superiority and insecurity, all at once. Maybe this is what has come across to the Diasporic Africans that you have encountered.

If there is to be a unity between Diasporic and Continental Africans, it must begin in a place of MUTUAL interest and MUTUAL respect.

While I have a sincere desire to connect with the culture and peoples of the Continent, my worldview dictates that all that is African is not necessarily immediately from and/or domiciled in the Continent. And because something/someone was from or born/raised/lives on the Continent does not make it/him/her "better than" or "more proper than" those or that which was created and exists in the Diaspora.

Bottomline my Brother/Sister, it's not about you; it's about US. Approach others in this manner and watch the response.

You are deeply mistaken if you think I feel superior than you, not at all. I don't have an inferiority complex either. The reality out there is that "most" African Americans know nothing about Africa and its peoples and have no desire to know more than the stereotypes about us. I approach you with sincerity if it's too much for you I am sorry.

And you are wrong.. AFRICA is the ROOT of everything, and as far as I am concerned it will be/ it is the place of glory for all African peoples! Our wealth and dignity only comes from there. Our continent has made every other races rich and powerful, so for Blacks with African ancestry to seek true POWER elsewhere is folly, that's my humble opinion.
quote:
Originally posted by KISONGO:
You certainly have the right to your opinion and I have the right to mine based on "my" experience. I have never felt welcomed by any African Diasporian, I have never felt any desire by them (even those with parents born on the continent) to know more about African culture above the superficiality or the fashionable.


You must have never read any of my posts on this board...Now you know at least one.

If you want to meet more 'interested' folk born 'everywhere' (literally) look for your local chapter of the A-APRP(All African People's Revolutionary Party)...it is a global organization...in Canada too.
quote:
Originally posted by Fagunwa:
Is being an African cultural? Of course! But there are thousands of different cultures on the continent and in the diaspora, all are African. When I walk in Newtown, Ghana I see the same face I see in Lynchburg, Va. When I walk in Ile Ife, Nigeria I see the same faces I saw in Brooklyn. NY when I was living there.The same loudness I heard in Senegal I heard in 5th ward in Houston, only the language was different. Even the physical gestures were the same in these places.


Of course I agree...and experienced the same phenmomenon in reverse.

quote:
Thank you all for your responses. This is my last post on this board and I'd like to say good-bye and may your ancestors and the divinities continue to shine light in dark places.


NO!...But if you are really leaving...goodbye and good luck. Odabo.
quote:
Originally posted by KISONGO:
hi everybody, thanks for the warm welcome back.

First of all I want to apologize about my English. Yes I am a newcomer in the West...
KISONGO!!! heart Welcome back my sister! I am glad you made your way back...

Don't worry about your "english" there are plenty of people who were born here(u.s.) who hack it to pieces - one or two of them post... uh, used to post on this site hehehehehe...

Again, glad you're back...
quote:
Originally posted by KISONGO:
... I don't know if I am welcomed on these boards after all...
Kisongo, you have to remember that whatever people post, it is just an opinion. You cannot take what some person who is 1/2way around the globe and has no idea who you are or what you're about, says to/about you...

Don't take it personal!

I also like your new avatar...
Fagunwa should be encouraged to return his insights and opinions are a learning experience.


Kisongo

Among African-Americans (or any ethnic group) you will find the good, the bad, the ugly and the IGNORANT. I suspect that you possibly had a difficult encounter with one of the ignorant. Should you become more familiar with the AA population you'll find a kaleidoscope of views regarding Africa(ns) but on this board the opines regarding the Motherland have been positive.
quote:
Originally posted by KISONGO:
quote:
Originally posted by Fagunwa:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by KISONGO:
hi everybody, thanks for the warm welcome back.





You talk so much about African religion, for me to only speak about religion to African Americans and not to inform them about the "daily life" in Africa is nonesense. Perhaps I've been in this website not long enough to proprely judge you, but I am making my comments based on the posts I have read so far about you and by you.



KISONGO
I feel that the only thing that I'm really qualified to speak to African Americans about is MY African religion. I also feel that it's the only thing they might need to learn about. AA's culture and daily life is as valid as anything I've seen at home, why would I have to "educate" them about something they already experience? They same Oyinbo who oppresses in Nigeria oppresses here. the same foolishness we do at home they do here. The same beauty we have home is here.

I appreciate your difference of opinion, it is helping me to grow.

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