African and Black American Relations: An African Perspective

quote:

Originally posted by folobatuyi:

quote:

Originally posted by Sweetwuzzy:
Janice,

I think the best way to fix African and African American relations is for people to educate themselves. It's pretty sad that not many African americans don't know about africa's history and present. I think that Africans as well need to learn about African Americans history...........

Now that would imply that these folks are even willingly to even consider that option..."educate themselves" ...geez, sweatwuzzy...that would imply work, effort, having an open mind....more work! Might win but a select few!
Personally, I am willingly to bet that more of African Americans (AA) would be more willing to take you up on that offer to educate themselves on African issue than Africans on AA related issues without a doubt in my mind. It always baffled me about that observation that to me it seemed that AAs were far more interested in learning about Africans and less likely to simply blow off the notion of learning about African culture as non-existent as some Africans I have come across who continue to just simply view AAs as cultureless..never understood it completely....I guess this is more reflective of our collective (albeit preprogrammed)self-hatred.

I have to agree. Not all Africans are like that though. I have heard Africans say that African Americans have a lack of culture, yet these same people want African Americans to learn more about African history.

You can't call a group of people uncultured and
then get mad at them that they don't know your history and culture.

Like I said, the best way to fix African and African American relations is for each group to learn each others history and culture. Another way is for African Americans to take our image of ourselves in the media VERY SERIOUSLY....

Another way is for African Americans to take our image of ourselves in the media VERY SERIOUSLY....---Sweetwuzzy

Intriguing.

Please elaborate.

PEACE

Jim Chester

quote:

Originally posted by folobatuyi:

quote:

Originally posted by Sweetwuzzy:
Janice,

I think the best way to fix African and African American relations is for people to educate themselves. It's pretty sad that not many African americans don't know about africa's history and present. I think that Africans as well need to learn about African Americans history...........

Now that would imply that these folks are even willingly to even consider that option..."educate themselves" ...geez, sweatwuzzy...that would imply work, effort, having an open mind....more work! Might win but a select few!
Personally, I am willingly to bet that more of African Americans (AA) would be more willing to take you up on that offer to educate themselves on African issue than Africans on AA related issues without a doubt in my mind. It always baffled me about that observation that to me it seemed that AAs were far more interested in learning about Africans and less likely to simply blow off the notion of learning about African culture as non-existent as some Africans I have come across who continue to just simply view AAs as cultureless..never understood it completely....I guess this is more reflective of our collective (albeit preprogrammed)self-hatred.

Funny, I see it, or rather experience the exact opposite attitude. Most of the continental Africans I know have a ton of questions about, and for, Africans in Amerikkka that most of 'us' born here can't/couldn't answer. It may be my location...the South. Most of the Amerikkkan born Africans I know, and have lived, worked, schooled, and socialized with don't know much about our own history on this landmass to 'educate' or rather 'share' with continental Africans.

When continental Africans refer to Africans in Amerikkka as 'uncultured'...at least the ones that I know, which are quite a few because of my political dealings, mean it in a much broader sense than the actual word 'culture', often continental Africans notice that Africans in Amerikkka know 'diddly squat' about the outside world and are prone to say the most ridiculousely ignorant comments and pose the most insulting questions towards Africans from the continent. So in turn, Africans in Amerikkka get referred to as 'uncultured'... Amerikkkans in general live in a geo-political bubble.

Og course there are acceptions to every rule, many being on this site, but we are talking about the masses in general.

quote:

Originally posted by James Wesley Chester:
Another way is for African Americans to take our image of ourselves in the media VERY SERIOUSLY....---Sweetwuzzy

Intriguing.

Please elaborate.

PEACE

Jim Chester

James, I don't need to elaborate...

African Americans need to control our images in the media. We need for black musicians, artist, actors and entertainers in general, to not be puppets and have blacks own our industries- our images...

Now,what bothers me is the fact that people are so easily swayed by the media. Just because the media says African Americans are lazy, and Africans swing from trees, still does not excuse ignorant people from thinking such.

I think people in general need to realize everything they see in advertisements, tv, news ,and movies is not real.

quote:

I think people in general need to realize everything they see in advertisements, tv, news ,and movies is not real.

---Sweetwuzzy

Thanks. You are so very right.

Repetition (without) challenge lends authenticity to an idea; any idea.

Control of the media controls that repetitive process.

Soon what the media says we are becomes what we not only believe, but SAY we are.

This persuasiveness of language is a part of why I get so nauseating about what we say about ourselves.

We reinforce our own undoing.

We have to be the ones who determine who we are.

I'll spare you the commercial.

PEACE

Jim Chester

quote:

Originally posted by James Wesley Chester:

quote:

I think people in general need to realize everything they see in advertisements, tv, news ,and movies is not real.

---Sweetwuzzy

Thanks. You are so very right.

Repetition (without) challenge lends authenticity to an idea; any idea.

Control of the media controls that repetitive process.

Soon what the media says we are becomes what we not only believe, but SAY we are.

This persuasiveness of language is a part of why I get so nauseating about what we say about ourselves.

We reinforce our own undoing.

We have to be the ones who determine who we are.

I'll spare you the commercial.

PEACE

Jim Chester

Well said.... This is why I do not use the term black on black crime, ect....


There are times when I am fooled and believe the hype.... I gotta stay away from that, and black people need to check one another when people believe such garbage...

I have to be honest. I have never, in my entire life, had any kind of a problem dealing with continental African immigrants, except in doctor/patient relationships. I tend to have a problem with Nigerian doctors, especially those in their 40s & 50s, because their age puts them among thos Nigerians who I once read were sent here for free by the new Nigerian government, to become doctors & engineers, and then return to Nigeria to help address the new independent nation's biggest needs. Because most of them shirked their responsibilities and chose to stay in the U.S., I tend to look at them with a crooked eye. Nigeria could have become a major economic power, but this is one reason why that didn't happen.

Other than that, I have nothing but pleasant experiences in my encounters with African immigrants. In my experiences, if they see that you know a little something about their home countries, they really seem to respond well to you. I think African-born people tend to assume that we have no respect for them. I don't know if they get that from thin air or from experience. But it takes almost no effort at all for that perception to disappear when you talk to them, if the convo shows that you know a little bit about where they're from. It's probably hard to keep thinking somebody disrespects who you are if they see that you've bothered to learn about their countries. They actually get really excited, and want to know you better. So to the poster above who said education is the key... that is absolutely correct, IMO.

One word of caution: if you ever have an African waiter serving you at a restaurant, tread carefully. I've had waiters who, when they see black Americans who know & are interested in their homeland, will get so enthused that they will not stop talking to you. Politics, Bush, the World Bank, religions, languages... It's as though the sum total of all conversations that they ever wished they could have with black American customers, they'll have with you right there at your table. I was afraid he was gonna get fired.

Bottom line: learn enough about these places, and these people, to get through a basic conversation. Not only will you find this imaginary "rift" between "us and them" vanish, but you'll also open your own mind a bit.

quote:

Originally posted by Vox:

Bottom line: learn enough about these places, and these people, to get through a basic conversation. Not only will you find this imaginary "rift" between "us and them" vanish, but you'll also open your own mind a bit.

Dear Vox,
I agree with you but my sole point of contention is that in addition to AAs' needing to having an open mind...I think that above statement applies more to Africans esp Nigerians than it does AAs. My experience is AAs are much more willing to understand Africans and get a sense of their culture. Yes, there is ignorance on both parts ,ie Africans and AAs, but it seems that stems from self-absorbance and arrogance while the other is more of a sign of pure ignorance steming from misinformation.
But as you said, Vox, this can be resolved by each opening our minds and don't believe the hype regardless of who is saying it.

I've never had a problem with native Africans. If anything I've had respect. In the medical profession, it is easy to notice some airs among some African doctors, but I've never had a personal run-in. I can see however, how confrontations could arise. I overheard two Africans having a conversation once, and they commented on how Americans are so lazy and do not know the meaning of hardship.

I refuse to judge an entire group of people based on the actions of a few. My Muslim brothers and sisters and I have to face that unfair discrimination everyday; I can't fall into that hypocrisy.

I was just reading in the thread on Zimbabwe. I really appreciate H38's perspective.

It points out a significant problem for African American-Americans in gaining, not only clear information, but an orientation with 'Africa.'

There are dozens of such nations.

We should have a better conception of who is who, and what is what.

Sierra Leone, for instance, surprised.

If I ever knew, it didn't make an impression, because clearly, I forgot.

But then, that's my fault. I don't pursue that knowledge with any diligence. I collide with it.

I put Africa in quotes to imply a difference; that difference being the nations most typically associated with 'black' people.

Ain't that a bitch, to feel it necessary to distinguish the nations of the continent of your ancestry?

I used 'African American-American' to distinguish those of us who are descendant of chattel slavery, from those Americans who are descendant of immigrants from African nations.

And of course those direct immigrants such as Teresa Heinz-Kerry.

Anyway...

You get the idea.

PEACE

Jim Chester

Folo, I understand and agree with your point. And I appreciate your interest in your "side" taking on some of the responsibility. In fact, it has occurred to me that a lot of the time, when these brothers/sisters respond to me, they may be thinking in the back of their minds, "OHHH! An American black who's not ignorant! Amazing!!" This means that they often have the prejudgment going on, and what I do may have the effect of dispelling it -- at least with respect to me.

But I don't really begrudge them that. Maybe I'm wrong for that, but to me, as long as their private thoughts don't necessarily translate into negative actions, I don't mind dispelling the thoughts. We should all open up. But I don't mind if the first step has to be mine/ours, as long as the continental Africans we encounter follow suit. In my experience, they ALWAYS have.

quote:

Originally posted by folobatuyi:

quote:

Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by zodo:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Oshun Auset:



FYI...I thought the term 'akata' meant infidel...maybe Fagunwa can clarify.

Dear Oshun.
My understanding of "akata" is wild animal...I was informed that it is a word derived from Yoruba or a dialect thereof meaning a wild animal similiar to a fox. I could be wrong!

Felix

Yah it's Yoruba. but I always heard it meant Infidel...still waiting for Fagunwas clarification...I never heard it meant 'wild animal'...but actually that would make more sense...in an insulting way of course.

quote:

Originally posted by Oshun Auset:

quote:

Originally posted by folobatuyi:

quote:

Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by zodo:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Oshun Auset:



FYI...I thought the term 'akata' meant infidel...maybe Fagunwa can clarify.

Dear Oshun.
My understanding of "akata" is wild animal...I was informed that it is a word derived from Yoruba or a dialect thereof meaning a wild animal similiar to a fox. I could be wrong!

Felix

Yah it's Yoruba. but I always heard it meant Infidel...still waiting for Fagunwas clarification...I never heard it meant 'wild animal'...but actually that would make more sense...in an insulting way of course.

Trust me, Oshun,
I am a Yoruba(-American) man if there is such a thing)...ok by virtue of parentage and I actually speak it fairly and I am willing to bet it does not mean Infidel. From my understanding, it is derived from a dialect of Yoruba, I think it is Ekiti to be exact.

Felix

Sorry I'm late. Akata and I hate to even define the word, is a wild beast sort of. More an uncultured person so to speak, and is used for american born Africans by ignorant Nigerians.You should see Nollywood movies portraying AA's,it's a shame and a scandle. I had to stop looking at them.

There had better be such a thing as Yoruba-americans or I and my children are folks without a designation! Can't have that in the USA. My brother is right about us although it pains me. My people need to get out more and deal with the African-american history and culture with more respect.Although this is changing it is very slow.

There had better be such a thing as Yoruba-americans or I and my children are folks without a designation!---Fagunwa

I certainly understand, AND agree.
I am, however, curious.

Does your ancestry include America's chattel slavery?

If it does, I perceive your designation/identification as a 'bypass' of our otherwise everlasting circumstance of lost ancestral nationality.

Which, by the way, I believe holds as much validity as does an assembly of tribes typically called 'nation.'

PEACE

Jim Chester

Folobatuyi I appreciate your opionions on this subject of AA's/A's and you're truly a minority of one. I've observed on certain websites how those who share your views are torn asunder by forumites.

The first time I heard the word "akata" it was explained in translation as "cotton-picker". When I became an observer in other web-forums the word was revealed as meaning "wild animal" and of course it gave fuel to my disappoinment. Still I believe that realtions between A and AA will improve within a generation or two.

No slavery in my family line. My wife is African born in america.

Sorry I am joining this debate so late..

I'm an African from Angola and I feel we have nothing in common (or a few things in common) with African-Americans and Black Carribeans. We don't think alike, we don't dress alike, we don't speak alike, we face different problems (when we Africans live on the continent). I can't relate to African-Americans as far as music, languages and lifestyles goes.

We need to recognizee our cultural differences! We Africans can build a political unity with Black Americans and Caribbeans, but a CULTURAL one is not possible.. we ARE different!

quote:

Originally posted by KISONGO:
Sorry I am joining this debate so late..

I'm an African from Angola and I feel we have nothing in common (or a few things in common) with African-Americans and Black Carribeans. We don't think alike, we don't dress alike, we don't speak alike, we face different problems (when we Africans live on the continent). I can't relate to African-Americans as far as music, languages and lifestyles goes.

We need to recognizee our cultural differences! We Africans can build a political unity with Black Americans and Caribbeans, but a CULTURAL one is not possible.. we ARE different!

I think the problem is that whenever discussing African American and African relations, people are always trying to convert African Americans to "be African" and Africans to "be African American".... This is unnecessary....

No one should have to change themselves to have healthy relationship...

Oh, please, let me tell you what you have in common with African Americans and Carribeans ---DNA----anscestral tracing to Africa-----you are either new to America or you are one of those Africans who live in denial of obvious problems rooted in racism and bigotry facing people of African descent ALL over this world.
The racism that African Americans face in this country is because they are of African descent, just like you. And as far as cultural differences are concerned, so what! Every place on earth has cultural differences, whether they are the multitude of the cultural differences within Africa or between the west and the east, hell, within the US there are cultural differences from state to state and between north and south.

The point is, that all people of African descent all over this world are facing a multitude of problems that can all be traced back to racism, whether in the form of past slavery and jim crow in the America or colonization of the African continent(same difference as American slavery and jim crow, at least same effect)-----and the problems facing our entire race as a whole far out weighs and "cultural" differences.

quote:

Originally posted by sunnubian:
Oh, please, let me tell you what you have in common with African Americans and Carribeans ---DNA----anscestral tracing to Africa-----you are either new to America or you are one of those Africans who live in denial of obvious problems rooted in racism and bigotry facing people of African descent ALL over this world.
The racism that African Americans face in this country is because they are of African descent, just like you. And as far as cultural differences are concerned, so what! Every place on earth has cultural differences, whether they are the multitude of the cultural differences within Africa or between the west and the east, hell, within the US there are cultural differences from state to state and between north and south.

The point is, that all people of African descent all over this world are facing a multitude of problems that can all be traced back to racism, whether in the form of past slavery and jim crow in the America or colonization of the African continent(same difference as American slavery and jim crow, at least same effect)-----and the problems facing our entire race as a whole far out weighs and "cultural" differences.

Sunnubian,
I really and truly agree with your statement, but as I have always stated, such statements to most (not all) Africans will continue to fall on deaf ears....but I guess there is hope?

quote:

Originally posted by sunnubian:
Oh, please, let me tell you what you have in common with African Americans and Carribeans ---DNA----anscestral tracing to Africa-----you are either new to America or you are one of those Africans who live in denial of obvious problems rooted in racism and bigotry facing people of African descent ALL over this world.
The racism that African Americans face in this country is because they are of African descent, just like you. And as far as cultural differences are concerned, so what! Every place on earth has cultural differences, whether they are the multitude of the cultural differences within Africa or between the west and the east, hell, within the US there are cultural differences from state to state and between north and south.

The point is, that all people of African descent all over this world are facing a multitude of problems that can all be traced back to racism, whether in the form of past slavery and jim crow in the America or colonization of the African continent(same difference as American slavery and jim crow, at least same effect)-----and the problems facing our entire race as a whole far out weighs and "cultural" differences.

I hope African Americans and Afro-Carribeans have more in common with Africans then simply racism

quote:

Originally posted by DivineJoy:
My first experience with an African was bad. He was very hateful to me. He thought Black Americans hated Africans. After we talked, he realized the perception he had of Black Americans was wrong, or at least in my case. We became good friends.

I saw a Nigerian movie were one of the characters came to America to live for awhile. When he returned, he was thugged out. Rude and mean. The comment was "See, this is what happens when you go to America."

I heard a friend say, moving back to Africa would cause a Palestine/Israelite type conflict. Never thought of that, but he's probably right...

Hasn't that already happened before? When Liberia was formed in 1847, the former slaves went to settle there, and up to today, the indiginous Liberians and the Americo-Liberians (black slave repatriates/immigrants) have been butting heads for over 150 years.

IMHO, I don't like the term African-American and I like it even less after reading some of the postings and excerpt article. You see, the blood of my ancestors were spilled in this land for the freedom we enjoy today. Unfortunately, I feel resentment when lumped into the African-American group who immigrated here of their own free will. Whether it be right or wrong, thats the way I feel. Call me Black-American or "Black-Aborgine-American" something that distinquishes me and mine, who shed blood and helped make this great country from my people's forced free labor.
I am starting to feel a conspiracy!

Unfortunately, I feel resentment when lumped into the African-American group who immigrated here of their own free will.---Diamond

Precisely!!!

I strongly resent having them being 'lumped' into the same group that includes me.

But when a hyphen is used to describe everyone who is of African ancestry, that is exactly what is being done. By the way, I try to say this every time to keep it clear.

Using the hyphen includes Teresa Heinz-Kerry. She is Mozambican; native-born, and providing she is a naturalized citizen. She would therefore be an American who is African. I also feel offended when Barak Obama is referred to as an African American with the implication that he, and his ethnicity are the same as mine.

Clearly, it isn't.

And for those who say, 'What's the difference?'
I say if you have to ask you are either European American, or so brainwashed as to have the same mentality.

Without the hyphen African American enables us to be who we are, a people of a unique group as is every other unique ethnic group.

We are therefore Americans who are African American; African American-Americans. Some have difficulty dealing with the required use of American twice.

Initially, I had difficulty with it.

It's pure mental.

Every day it becomes more comfortable.

Now I feel as though I have misspoken if I don't use it.

And...I have.

PEACE

Jim Chester

quote:

Originally posted by Diamond:
IMHO, I don't like the term African-American and I like it even less after reading some of the postings and excerpt article. You see, the blood of my ancestors were spilled in this land for the freedom we enjoy today. Unfortunately, I feel resentment when lumped into the African-American group who immigrated here of their own free will. Whether it be right or wrong, thats the way I feel. Call me Black-American or "Black-Aborgine-American" something that distinquishes me and mine, who shed blood and helped make this great country from my people's forced free labor.
I am starting to feel a conspiracy!

Africans who move here voluntarily are not called African american... They are distinguished by their nationality followed by American....

Then again, if two Africans from different countries have a child in the U.S. it's going to be hard to say what that child is..... for the census anyway

Teresa(sp) Heinz Kerry ain't African American ... until blacks from Europe are called European American, her ass ain't African American..

Africans who move here voluntarily are not called African american... They are distinguished by their nationality followed by American....---Sweetwuzzy

I know what you are saying here, but....
They can rightly be called such, and some do.

European-Americans and Asia-Americans use a protocol that makes the continental reference acceptable in our society.

It should be noted that such usage does not speak to their ethnicity. Neither Asian, nor European addresses ethnicity. Nor do they identify nationality, ancestral or otherwise.

Thus... African-American. The hyphen is being used to designate origin, as is normally the case in such an application.

Then again, if two Africans from different countries have a child in the U.S. it's going to be hard to say what that child is..... for the census anyway---Sweetwuzzy

Any child born in the United States, of any parentage, is an American citizen. If one parent is German and the other Italian, the child's ethnic designation is German-Italian-American.

This is analogous to Barack Obama who is Kenyan-Irish-American.

The census doesn't care.

In the first instance, the child is 'white.'

In the second, Obama is 'black.'

My point, and contention, is that I am an American who is African American.

I am not an American who is simply African.

Teresa(sp) Heinz Kerry ain't African American ... until blacks from Europe are called European American, her ass ain't African American..---Sweetwuzzy

She is as African as any other native-born African.

She publicly declared herself as an African-American. She should know where she is from.

I'm afraid the line is getting fuzzy. My local university changed their "Black Studies" to "Afrikana Studies" to include everyone of color. I was against it when it happened because the department grew out of the Civil Rights movement and the name change has grown out of the influence of AFRICAN professor who now have tenure.

quote:

Originally posted by Diamond:
I'm afraid the line is getting fuzzy. My local university changed their "Black Studies" to "Afrikana Studies" to include everyone of color. I was against it when it happened because the department grew out of the Civil Rights movement and the name change has grown out of the influence of AFRICAN professor who now have tenure.

What's with the 'k' in the spelling??

Like I say over ane over 'When you put others in charge of who you are, you stop being who you are.

Such utter bullshit!!!

Talk about 'fuzzy'. Wait a generation and the story will be that they sent us here because we insisted.

PEACE

Jim Chester

quote:

Talk about 'fuzzy'. Wait a generation and the story will be that they sent us here because we insisted.

My mistake, the "k" doesn't exist. I checked, the proper spelling is, "Africana Studies", but still holds the purpose of, "..... the study, research, interpretation, and the dissemination of knowledge concerning African American, African, and Caribbean affairs and culture."

But my concern is reparations. There are various arguements against it and I can hear them now, "... they are all African-Americans how are we to distinguish the slave descendants from those who have immigrated here and married?"

What's frightening is that we could have inherited an innate nature towards violence. There are alot of warring countries in Africa. And, in America are communities are in crisis due to the black on black killings amongst our young men. The body count is high in my town. A woman said to me," All this killing, we gonna be slaves again." Unfortunately, I see freedoms slowly erroding. Young brothers are not able to go into certain neighborhoods whether they are associated with gangs or not. Its terrible where these events are leading.

Its terrible where these events are leading.---Diamond

I agree. I also believe WE are the only ones who can stop it.

I firmly believe the beginning of doing that is on the tip of our tongues.

PEACE

Jim Chester

quote:

Originally posted by Diamond:
IMHO, I don't like the term African-American and I like it even less after reading some of the postings and excerpt article. You see, the blood of my ancestors were spilled in this land for the freedom we enjoy today. Unfortunately, I feel resentment when lumped into the African-American group who immigrated here of their own free will. Whether it be right or wrong, thats the way I feel. Call me Black-American or "Black-Aborgine-American" something that distinquishes me and mine, who shed blood and helped make this great country from my people's forced free labor.
I am starting to feel a conspiracy!

I guess continental Africans haven't shed any blood in making this country RICH...hell Amerikkka doesn't exploit foreign labour markets and do resource rape in Africa particularly or globally...It's the land of the free and home of the brave!(inject sarcasm) Afrikkkans born in Amerikkka's free labour made this country RICH, not free)...

And people(of any ilk) that think Africans in Amerikkka, the Caribbean and the continent don't have some cultural similarities haven't researched the subject well.

Shit, parts of the Caribbean look just like West Africa...

Anyhow, one thing is for sure, we have more in commen with each other that we do with our oppressor.

And this is the AFRICAN DIASPORA forum... Man! What a Conspiracy! lol

quote:

Originally posted by Oshun Auset:

quote:

Originally posted by Diamond:
IMHO, I don't like the term African-American and I like it even less after reading some of the postings and excerpt article. You see, the blood of my ancestors were spilled in this land for the freedom we enjoy today. Unfortunately, I feel resentment when lumped into the African-American group who immigrated here of their own free will. Whether it be right or wrong, thats the way I feel. Call me Black-American or "Black-Aborgine-American" something that distinquishes me and mine, who shed blood and helped make this great country from my people's forced free labor.
I am starting to feel a conspiracy!

I guess continental Africans haven't shed any blood in making this country RICH...hell Amerikkka doesn't exploit foreign labour markets and do resource rape in Africa particularly or globally...It's the land of the free and home of the brave!(inject sarcasm) Afrikkkans born in Amerikkka's free labour made this country RICH, not free)...

And people(of any ilk) that think Africans in Amerikkka, the Caribbean and the continent don't have some cultural similarities haven't researched the subject well.

Shit, parts of the Caribbean look just like West Africa...

Anyhow, one thing is for sure, we have more in commen with each other that we do with our oppressor.

I strongly agree....

I strongly agree....---folobatuyi

I strongly agree as well.

I further feel that Diamond is right to distinguish herself in her identity.

There is no insult to anyone assert who you are.

And...who you are not.

I too feel resentment when lumped with others of African ancestry who immigrated, or are descendant from those immigrated, i.e. of their own free will.

I am an American who is African American, i.e. an American of unknown African ancestry.

I am not an American who is simply African.

I am an African American-American.

I am not who I am to offend others.

PEACE

Jim Chester

What is the real difference between an African born in Africa and an African born in america? If you saw me walking in your local supermarket you would not be able to tell I was born in Nigeria at all. I have heard it a million times " I thought you were born here, you don't look African". This comes from African american americans, I tell them "you do".

I am not trying to be funny I really want to know, in real terms what is the difference?

quote:

Originally posted by Fagunwa:
What is the real difference between an African born in Africa and an African born in america? If you saw me walking in your local supermarket you would not be able to tell I was born in Nigeria at all. I have heard it a million times " I thought you were born here, you don't look African". This comes from African american americans, I tell them "you do".

I am not trying to be funny I really want to know, in real terms what is the difference?

In real terms:

I don't look for a difference.

I may, or may not, see a difference. I don't know when I am right. I don't ask.

Now for the 'nitty-gritty.'

Your terminology says a lot.

Being African IS NOT about citizenship.

Being Nigerian IS about citizenship.

Being African is about geography first; ancestry subsequently.

Being Nigerian is ALSO about ancestry.

Being Nigerian is ALSO about being African.

Being Nigerian AND African is about citizenship, ancestry, AND geography.

Nigeria is where you are from.

This is characteristic of an African, who is Nigerian, born in Africa, OR descendant of such a person.

An African born in America may or may not be descendant from a person who is a citizen of an African nation.

That African IS a citizen of the United States; America.

An African American-American is descendant from a person who never had citizenship in an African nation.

Certainly not all, but the great predominance of such persons also have no idea what nation the last person in their family came from.

(Essentially) all persons of such ancestry also have chattel slavery as a part of their family history.

That group of persons is more than simply African. They are native to/of, and heirs of that history and experience; that place they and their ancestors have occupied for, almost 200 years; African America.

They are Americans who are African American, wholly or in part.

Many times there only distinction between the two groups is speech; sometimes mannerism; sometimes ideology.

PEACE

Jim Chester

quote:

Originally posted by Fagunwa:
What is the real difference between an African born in Africa and an African born in america? If you saw me walking in your local supermarket you would not be able to tell I was born in Nigeria at all. I have heard it a million times " I thought you were born here, you don't look African". This comes from African american americans, I tell them "you do".

I am not trying to be funny I really want to know, in real terms what is the difference?

I think it's like KISONGO (WELCOME BACK!) said, we are different culturally. The Yoruba are culturally different from the Xhosa, so I don't understand those who don't want to recognize that American blacks are also culturally different from, say the Xhosa. Hell, when I met my brother & sister (technically "halfs") for the first time, I was struck by a few "cultural" (mostly linguistic) differneces between us, from the Northeast to down south.

But like I said in another post up above, that cultural difference should not, and in fact absolutely must not, give rise to any kind of comraderie gap. We are all one, in a very real sense, regardless of cultural differences. And even culturally, distinct as we are, there are clearly recognizable, powerful strands of ties that bind. So I just don't see the problem in recognizing the differences while embracing each other.

quote:

JWC: There is no insult to anyone assert who you are.

And...who you are not.

I too feel resentment when lumped with others of African ancestry who immigrated, or are descendant from those immigrated, i.e. of their own free will.

I am an American who is African American, i.e. an American of unknown African ancestry.

I am not an American who is simply African.

I am an African American-American.

I am learning a lot from all the posters in this thread in general, so a genuine thank you.

And the quote above has given me a new context or way of seeing. I didn't put that very eloquently, but I think/hope you know what I'm saying.