I am an African American who is aware of the problems that exist in our relations with Africans.

There is a perception among many blacks in the United States that Africans don't want us over there. There is also a perception among Africans that we don't want to have anything to do with them because they are backward. We are more developed and "civilized" than they are. The list goes on and on.

It is a highly controversial subject. One African, Godfrey Mwakikagile from Tanzania, has addressed this issue in his book, "Relations Between Africans and African Americans: Misconceptions, Myths and Realities" that was published recently in January 2005.

He lived and interacted with African Americans in the United States for many years and writes from experience. Below are sample chapter from his book. Tell us what you think about it. And here are some details about his work:

Godfrey Mwakikagile, "Relations Between Africans and African Americans: Misconceptions, Myths and Realities" (Grand Rapids, Michigan: National Academic Press, 2005), 302 pages, softcover edition, $12.95.
http://napress1.tripod.com/
Email: napress@altelco.net

This work looks at relations between Africans and African Americans from the perspective of an African, and of shared perceptions on both sides of the Atlantic. Incorporated into the analysis are stories of individuals who have interacted, worked and lived with members of both groups in Africa and in the United States, including the author himself. Stereotypes and misunderstandings of each other constitute an integral part of this study, explained from both perspectives, African and African-American.

The author, a former journalist in Tanzania and now an academic author whose books are found in public and university libraries around the world, has lived in the United States, mostly in the black community, for more than 30 years. He articulates his position from the vantage point of someone who has lived on both sides of the Atlantic, focusing on a subject that has generated a lot of interest among Africans and African Americans through the years. And it continues to be one of great misunderstanding between the two sides, in spite of increased contacts and communication between Africa and Black America, and between individual Africans and African Americans in the United States and in Africa.

What is the state of relations between Africans and African Americans? How do Africans see black Americans, and how do black Americans see them? What is their experience with American blacks and what is the experience of black Americans with them, individually and collectively, in general? How are Africans accepted by black people in the United States? And how are black Americans accepted in Africa? Do Africans see American blacks as fellow Africans, cousins or distant cousins, or just as Americans?

These are some of the questions answered in this book, written by an African, and based on his experience of more than 30 years interacting with African Americans, and on the experiences of many Africans and African Americans quoted in this study:

Contents:

Acknowledgments

Introduction

Chapter One:
Enduring Ties Between Africa and the Diaspora

Chapter Two:
My Life with African Americans

Chapter Three:
The Image of Africa in America

Chapter Four:
The Attitude of Africans Towards African Americans

Chapter Five:
The Attitude of African Americans Towards Africans

Chapter Six:
Misconceptions About Each Other

Chapter Seven:
African Americans in Tanzania: Black Panther Leader
Pete O'Neal and Others

Chapter Eight:
Back to the Motherland: Fihankra
An African-American Settlement in Ghana
and Other Diasporans

Appendix:
What Africans and African Americans
Think About Their Relations: Voices From Within

About the Author

Attachments

Original Post
Perhaps you should investigate other websites for answers to your questions such as www.nigeriansinamerica.com

The author of that piece is proud that although he was raised in America that his mother "filtered out" all of his AA friends from contact with him. He says that his mom was successful in doing that ALTHOUGH he's now married to white woman and proud that he retained his "BRITISH-african" identity( note the foreword). I wonder how his African mother feels about that but at least he didn't marry an AA woman. You all go figure all that. SHEER HATRED!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Well Janice, I'll bet that he could not come up with an equivelant word for Europeans who have raped Africa, her women and children for centuries now. What is their equivalent word for Europeans who have systematically been the main root cause of Africa's poverty, disease, and civil wars? What is their equivalent name of the North Africans/Arabs that are enslaving, torturing, raping, and murdering Sudanese? What is their equivalent name of the Europeans ("peace keeper") who repeatedly come to their coutries and molest and rape their children and women? What is their equivalent name for Europeans that have enoculated nealry all of Africa with the AIDS virus? Sold regular evaporated mild on the African continent as infant formula for decades? What is their equivalent name for the American Whites and Europeans that brainwashed the entire world and African Americans to believe that all African were wild, cannelbalistic savages?

Oh, but I am sure that he and his white wife do not see the true brutal wild animals on the planet for what and who they are.

Also, just a reminder, ----it is all the wild brutal -"akata" - African Americans that made it possible for an African to ever get a visa or citizenship in this racist nation. It was the "akata" African Americans that fought died and went to prison and were lynched from trees in order to bring most of America's institutionalized racism to an end, at least enough or long enough that ANY Black Africans that are here now ever had a chance at coming to America, even as a domestic, let alone anything else (as well with ALL other people of color/black or brown on this planet that are here now). If you don't believe this, then please account for your lack in number before the civil rights movement, before affirmative action, before African Americans fought and died to give people of color some power and influence in this country? Where were all of you before then?
And by the way, it is still the "akata" -African Americans that keeps you from being harrassed and brutalized when you are here (particulary in certain parts of this country still).

Yea, the pot cannot call the kettle black. We are the same ultimately - in everyone else's eyes.
And by the way, it is still the "akata" -African Americans that keeps you from being harrassed and brutalized when you are here (particulary in certain parts of this country still).

Yea, the pot cannot call the kettle black. We are the same ultimately - in everyone else's eyes.---sunnubian

Thank you!!

I listen to this ever-growing cacophony of discord between African Americans and African nationals with a jaundiced eye.

Charges come from African nationals that they are not 'welcomed', or are otherwise disparaged.

Respect goes a long way, both when received and when given.

Ridicule pays little in dividends.

I get pissed off when someone who has been here 23 minutes begins to advise me on what to do to 'better myself.'

Particularly when that person is here because of my having 'bettered myself.'

In effect, I am the reason for his prosperity, and now he is going to instruct me!!

It does tend to piss one off.


PEACE

Jim Chester
I would really like to read a book written by an African immigrant on their relationships with Latinos, Asians, Euro-Americans and any other ethnic group recently arrived to America but I'll guess I'll die from old age b4 that happens. In their opinion AA's are the yard stick by which they measure failure. Many of them refute the impact of centuries of slavery and discrimination and a lot say that we shouldn't use the term "African-American" but use black-american. But my theory is that a lot of these misunderstandings lie with the recently arrived African immigrants as opposed to those who were born and raised here . The irony is that many of them move into African-American neighborhoods living along side the very people (AA) they disparage. However I remain optimistic that this situation will hopefully iron itself out after a generation or decade or two.
a lot say that we shouldn't use the term "African-American" but use black-american.---zodo

Only once. They only do that to me once.

I pointedly try to help them remember they are NOT African American-Americans, BUT Africans who are African.

Just as European immigrants are Europeans who are European.

Should they be, or become I, graciously of course, try to help them remember they are Nigerian-American, or Ghanaian-American.

But only if they challenge my identity.

I am not mean guy, basically.


PEACE

Jim Chester
The African-American and African relations is indeed a tricky one at best. Being a Nigerian-American, it has been interesting to see people responses and facial expresssions when I respond to their respective questioning as to where I am from. I usually tell folks that I am an American born to Nigerian parents. I love that the fact that I am an American and nothing is going to change about that. And then I procede to tell them that I went to Nigeria for the first time in 1985 at the age of 11 years. Yes, I was mad that Halloween Day in 1985 when I got on the plane to leave to Nigeria because I was scheduled to have a book club party at school that day for successfully reading a number of books and returning them on time while I was in the 4th grade. Anyway, to say the least, my experience in Nigeria during the 8 years I was there (1985-1993) was hellish. So, I don't miss it.
On coming back, my experience has been interesting as well. I get mixed signals from both the Nigerian community and the African-American community. In the Nigerian community, I am told that I do not act nor think like an true African or Nigerian because at the age of 31, I do not have a fancy car or big house or that I do not want to go back to Nigeria to live. Instead, I am told or at least in the past by some, that I have an obligation to assist others to get a green card and the reason why I am a doctor in training is because I am a Nigerian? BS....maybe because I simply love pathology and I do remember cracking open a few books or so along the way dating back to the age of 9 thanks to my mother. So, in the Nigerian community, I am not really a Nigerian but really a fake African. Ok, I guess Jesus still loves me, so my bible tells me so. Despite the fact that I speak and read Yoruba fairly well with some exceptions, I have been told that I sound like an Hausa man when I speak Yoruba....hey, at least I tried.
On the other hand, the black community has been for the most part more accepting of my "flaws" if you. Yet, I do get the occassional off-the-wall questions like, "did hyenas run wild while you were in Nigeria?" or "I would not help you to get a green card even if you asked me, becuase I know you Africans are always looking for someone to help you with that". These funny statements aside, the black community has been cool with me and vice versa.
In short, I think the problems stem from the lack of understanding of each other's viewpoint. On the part of Africans, one of the reasons for some misguided statements is the due largely to the misguided initial interactions they have with a few members of the black community if any at all. Most of them do not interact with people of such caliber as seen on this forum initially but instead on coming to America (very much like the movie), their first and, a lot of the times, only interaction with Black America are those within the hood. Not saying that the hood is filled with less intellectual folks, it is just that the hood does not provide a more complete representation of the wide range of talent that comprises the black community as a whole. Hence, some of them come to a faulty notion that blacks in America are all lazy etc. Unfortunately, the media does not help as well but as any wise person would know, the media is not the best source of information on minorities. But like my parents, a good number of Africans just seem to think that blacks here are a cultureless, lazy and wild set of people stemming primarily from their interactions with a few set of people who may have these features and thereby extrapolating this to all black folks in the country. I think this applies to black folks over here as well with regards to their initial interaction with Africans along with their faulty preconcieved notions.
A sad thought and a self-limiting one at that....my philosophy is that the world is a bit bigger than Nigeria and I want to experience as much as I can.

felix
Being a Nigerian-American, it has been interesting to see people responses and facial expresssions when I respond to their respective questioning as to where I am from.---felix

I read you post with great interest.

I was first attracted by your title: 'African and Black American Relations:...'

The original post for this thread talked about a mother shielding her son from contact with African American-Americans. There was a time, long ago, and in a 'knee-jerk' reaction, I would seen that as offensive.

Over the last dozen or so years, I have gained an insight the enables to see why such a thing in necessary. Although argument will be offered, we African Americans do the same thing.

It is about separation from a mentality. It is a mentality that limits. No need to go into all the ways that limiting happens. We shield ourselves and our children from this debilitating phenomenon.

I am an advocate for recognizing people for who they are rather than what they are. I often say the being 'black' is among the least of all the things we, as a people, are.

Like near-sightedness, and right-handedness.

We are yet to come grips with our relationship to Africa. Africa is still an monolith to most of us. We cannot see within the continent. As a result, many, if not most, of us have come to envision the continent as a nation.

Even though, when challenged on this issue, those of us who have this view are quick to step back from that, as the conversation goes on it is clear that Africa, the continent, is the focus of identity.

I found it refreshing you did not succumb to the peer pressure of our society to reference yourself as simply black, but rather to lift your ancestral nationality in your identity.

I hope you can stay strong in that stance. You do without offense. You do it as factually as the circumstance.

That is what it should be. Simple fact.

I believe the relationship of African nationals with Americans of unknown African ancestry will come to equilibrium when we complete our own determination-of-self.

My choice is not the choice of most. Each of us will have ultimately make a decision that enables us to relate to the nations of world in a manner that every other people have been able to do.

I have determined myself to an American who is African American.

I am sometimes chided for my instance on no hyphen. Sometimes no so nicely. I try to let that happen without personal comment.

All of us of African ancestry, known and unknown, have a lot of fixing to do.

PEACE

Jim Chester
My first experience with an African was bad. He was very hateful to me. He thought Black Americans hated Africans. After we talked, he realized the perception he had of Black Americans was wrong, or at least in my case. We became good friends.

I saw a Nigerian movie were one of the characters came to America to live for awhile. When he returned, he was thugged out. Rude and mean. The comment was "See, this is what happens when you go to America." Red Face

I heard a friend say, moving back to Africa would cause a Palestine/Israelite type conflict. Never thought of that, but he's probably right...
quote:
Originally posted by DivineJoy:

I heard a friend say, moving back to Africa would cause a Palestine/Israelite type conflict. Never thought of that, but he's probably right...



DivineJoy,
That statement is rather interesting. In my personal experience, it might be as well possible; I doubt it would be to the extent of the Israelis and the Palestians but I am willing to bet that there would be problems getting along chiefly becuase of the language barriers and jealousy....but all hope is not lost...my approach is to take my fellow black person at an individual level and take it from there.


But as I tell all of my friends, I am not the best representative of Yoruba culture; there are several things in it I don't share an affliation with nor practise but I do understand it for the most part and that is fine by me

Any thoughts...

Felix
There is ignorance among all cultures of people and Nigerians are no different. There is light among all cultures and Nigerians are no different. How can the African American not be African? This is obviously ignorant.
Your speak Yoruba like a Hausa? I am sorry but having heard this rebuke before myself I cannot help but laugh. For those who do not know this is not a compliment.
I hope that the light bearers among our "nations" can assist us in becoming more together as people. I am very thankful that they are working toward this goal. There are more and more AA"s embracing traditional African religion every day and this interaction is allowing us to get to know each other better. As more Nigerians come here and get more into the culture we are getting to know each other.It may be a trickle now but soon it will be a river.
I agree with you Fagunwa except I feel that our common denominator will be the Black Woman, and not our cultural and spiritual prefrences.
I think the 'common demoninator' is neither color, nor gender, and clearly cannot be religion with its multipicity for choice.

I think the 'common demoninator' will be based in ancestral nationality.

The specification of difference in the people springing from a common base will allow all the branches of the family tree to see each other clearly.

PEACE

Jim Chester
You've got too much faith in the consciousness of our people as a whole. Although I would like to think that was the common denominator, I find it difficult to be as optimistic.
Peace and Blessings All,

Just a thought....what if the common denominator will be our choice in values? Is this not the foundation upon which a people truly unite? *Note* values as opposed to religious dogma.....

Peace,
Virtue
quote:
Originally posted by HeruStar:
You've got too much faith in the consciousness of our people as a whole. Although I would like to think that was the common denominator, I find it difficult to be as optimistic.


I see your point. It translates as lack of self-confidence.

My confidence is in me. My hope is for my people.

My responsibility is the keep the truth of our identity in the conversation of African America.

Decisions from there are personal.


PEACE

Jim Chester
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:
Peace and Blessings All,

Just a thought....what if the common denominator will be our choice in values? Is this not the foundation upon which a people truly unite? *Note* values as opposed to religious dogma.....

I would choose values over (religious) dogma.

Whatever path of rationale is chosen, it must result in uniqueness and commonality for all those like us, i.e. Americans of unknown African ancestry.

That is, after all, who we are.


PEACE

Jim Chester

Peace,
Virtue
Don't values come from culture? Aren't our cultures very different?---HeruStar

Don't values come from culture? Aren't our cultures very different?---HeruStar

We come from very different cultures insofar as Creole, is different from Geechee(sp), is different a myriad of other cultures within African America.

The African culture of my ancestors are lost to me, because it was lost to them. Therefore most of the culture I have experienced, and inherited is based, and constructed by my ancestors within this society.

I agree that values evolve from culture.

I also agree that we have cultures within African America that are very different.

The commonality is that without exception every culture in African America has the common distinction, uniqueness, of chattel slavery, unknown African ancestry, and surviving in the place developed for our survival by those who preceded us.

I call that place African America.

I determine that to be my ancestral nationality.

For me, it is the beginning.


PEACE

Jim Chester
quote:
Originally posted by HeruStar:
I agree with you Fagunwa except I feel that our common denominator will be the Black Woman, and not our cultural and spiritual prefrences.


I did not mean to say that religion will unite us.
Call me crazy and I may be, but I really believe that future generations will overcome our ignorance. I don't know what the spark will be or even if there will be a spark, but I truly believe what Dr.King said "that we as a people will get to the promised land".
quote:
Originally posted by Fagunwa:
Call me crazy and I may be, but I really believe that future generations will overcome our ignorance. I don't know what the spark will be or even if there will be a spark, but I truly believe what Dr.King said "that we as a people will get to the promised land".


Peace Fagunwa,

I cosign....


Peace,
Virtue
quote:
Originally posted by DivineJoy:
My first experience with an African was bad.


So you had a bad experience with yurself? You are an African...lol.

quote:
He was very hateful to me. He thought Black Americans hated Africans. After we talked, he realized the perception he had of Black Americans was wrong, or at least in my case. We became good friends.


We are both (continental and diaspora Africans) fed bad information and major propoganda about each other.

quote:
I saw a Nigerian movie were one of the characters came to America to live for awhile. When he returned, he was thugged out. Rude and mean. The comment was "See, this is what happens when you go to America." Red Face


Not to be the devils advocate. And not to fuel the flames of stereotypes...but this can be true to a certain extent. American consumer culture usually brings out the worst in everyone...whether one is born here, or lived here for a while. Not that all people who live here are worse off for it. By I can think of many of an example of a Westernized continental African that I have run into, especially the young ones, that makes me want to vomit. It's a damn shame to see some people take on the ignorance that some of us here have developed over the centuries because of the dehumanizing situations we had to endure...or rather, the image of Africans born in Amerikkka that the Amerikkkan imperialist propoganda machine(the media) likes to broadcast world wide.

quote:
I heard a friend say, moving back to Africa would cause a Palestine/Israelite type conflict. Never thought of that, but he's probably right...


This is an ignorant statement IMO. The Palestinians are against the (Jewish)Isrealis because they are illegally occupying their land as a Western Imperialist(England and Amerikkka "helped" them win the 6 day war) outpost for strategic power in the "Middle East"(South East Asia). Not to mention the fact that the dominant "group" of "Isrealis" are the Askenaz Jews, which are Eastern European converts to Judaism from the Kazar empire, A.K.A., they aren't native to the land of palestine(the Sephardic and Yemenese Jews are...they look like Arabs) Unless we(Africans born in Amerikkka) were sent back to Africa as neo-colonial agents by the Amerikkkan government, our situations cannot even come close to being compared.

People that talk of repatriation or actually do it are far from ignorant of continental African culture, lifestyle ect. The ignorant folk don't even condsider repatriation as an option. So those who return(and many have and will) have little to no "conflict" with continental Africans.
quote:
Originally posted by virtue:
quote:
Originally posted by Fagunwa:
Call me crazy and I may be, but I really believe that future generations will overcome our ignorance. I don't know what the spark will be or even if there will be a spark, but I truly believe what Dr.King said "that we as a people will get to the promised land".


Peace Fagunwa,

I cosign....


Peace,
Virtue


I co-sign too. It's only a matter of time IMO. Change is the only thing that is constant.
quote:
Originally posted by sunnubian:
Well Janice, I'll bet that he could not come up with an equivelant word for Europeans who have raped Africa, her women and children for centuries now. What is their equivalent word for Europeans who have systematically been the main root cause of Africa's poverty, disease, and civil wars? What is their equivalent name of the North Africans/Arabs that are enslaving, torturing, raping, and murdering Sudanese? What is their equivalent name of the Europeans ("peace keeper") who repeatedly come to their coutries and molest and rape their children and women? What is their equivalent name for Europeans that have enoculated nealry all of Africa with the AIDS virus? Sold regular evaporated mild on the African continent as infant formula for decades? What is their equivalent name for the American Whites and Europeans that brainwashed the entire world and African Americans to believe that all African were wild, cannelbalistic savages?

Oh, but I am sure that he and his white wife do not see the true brutal wild animals on the planet for what and who they are.

Also, just a reminder, ----it is all the wild brutal -"akata" - African Americans that made it possible for an African to ever get a visa or citizenship in this racist nation. It was the "akata" African Americans that fought died and went to prison and were lynched from trees in order to bring most of America's institutionalized racism to an end, at least enough or long enough that ANY Black Africans that are here now ever had a chance at coming to America, even as a domestic, let alone anything else (as well with ALL other people of color/black or brown on this planet that are here now). If you don't believe this, then please account for your lack in number before the civil rights movement, before affirmative action, before African Americans fought and died to give people of color some power and influence in this country? Where were all of you before then?
And by the way, it is still the "akata" -African Americans that keeps you from being harrassed and brutalized when you are here (particulary in certain parts of this country still).

Yea, the pot cannot call the kettle black. We are the same ultimately - in everyone else's eyes.



Excellent. I came late to this discussion, but, I agree with you whole-heartedly 'Sunnubian'. I believe what you described, as to the Black Americans' contribtions to civilizing, and curtailing (somewhat) the White American/european beastial behavior towards Blacks and others as, 'the Joseph Principle(al), where, through the sheer determination, grit, sacrifice and strategizing of the leaders/people within the civil rights movement, we were able to make America, as livable a place as possible for us and our children.

'Akata', the hell..... I believe that the translation of that term means, 'wild animal', or 'beasts'. I 'visited' a Nigerian website, and saw that phrase bandied about. Is that what Africans call Black Americans. Pity.
quote:
Originally posted by nayo:

Excellent. I came late to this discussion, but, I agree with you whole-heartedly 'Sunnubian'. I believe what you described, as to the Black Americans' contribtions to civilizing, and curtailing (somewhat) the White American/european beastial behavior towards Blacks and others as, 'the Joseph Principle(al), where, through the sheer determination, grit, sacrifice and strategizing of the leaders/people within the civil rights movement, we were able to make America, as livable a place as possible for us and our children.

'Akata', the hell..... I believe that the translation of that term means, 'wild animal', or 'beasts'. I 'visited' a Nigerian website, and saw that phrase bandied about. Is that what Africans call Black Americans. Pity.


Dear Nayo,
the sad truth is that the word "akata" is still used today...bad habits die hard. I am in no way supporting the use of this as i have been called that before.
through the sheer determination, grit, sacrifice and strategizing of the leaders/people within the civil rights movement, we were able to make America, as livable a place as possible for us and our children.---nayo

I always try to respond to the acknowledgment of the reason for our survival. It isn't said enough. I believe many, but not enough, of us know this. But we won't speak it.

I take it to the next level to acknowledge that 'America' for what it is 'African America.'

Identity is on the tip our tongues.

All we have to do is speak it.


PEACE

Jim Chester
I would never defend the use of the slur "akata" and I don't think I did in my post.

But I must say for the sake of historical correctness that the civil rights movement in this country was affected by the Liberation movements on the African continent too.
But I must say for the sake of historical correctness that the civil rights movement in this country was affected by the Liberation movements on the African continent too.---Fagunwa

I agree.

There has been a reciprocal levering of each other since W.E.B. DuBois called the first Pan-African Conference (title??) in the 1920's.

The stronger the African nations become, the stronger African American becomes.

And vice versa.

It is good.


PEACE

Jim Chester
But I must say for the sake of historical correctness that the civil rights movement in this country was affected by the Liberation movements on the African continent too.....Fagunwa
------------------------------------------------

Both movements occurred simultaneously and naturally fed off one another. Those most responsible for African Liberation movements such as Kenyatta, Nkrumah, Aziekwe were educated in America during the 1930's at the time of legal segregation seeing first hand the treatment of African-Americans as similar to what the British were colonialists were doing to them.
The three above mentioned nationalists were friends of the the AA activists Paul Robeson and W.E.B.DuBois.
quote:
Originally posted by James Wesley Chester:
But I must say for the sake of historical correctness that the civil rights movement in this country was affected by the Liberation movements on the African continent too.---Fagunwa

I agree.

There has been a reciprocal leveraging of each other since W.E.B. DuBois called the first Pan-African Conference (title??) in the 1920's.

The stronger the African nations become, the stronger African America becomes.

And vice versa.

It is good.


PEACE

Jim Chester
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Oshun Auset:

Not to be the devils advocate. And not to fuel the flames of stereotypes...but this can be true to a certain extent. American consumer culture usually brings out the worst in everyone...whether one is born here, or lived here for a while. Not that all people who live here are worse off for it. By I can think of many of an example of a Westernized continental African that I have run into, especially the young ones, that makes me want to vomit. It's a damn shame to see some people take on the ignorance that some of us here have developed over the centuries because of the dehumanizing situations we had to endure...or rather, the image of Africans born in Amerikkka that the Amerikkkan imperialist propoganda machine(the media) likes to broadcast world wide.
________________________________________________


American consumer culture along with British, French, German, Japanese, Portuguese, and Italian comsumer culture have their affects on these individuals also.I suspect when a young person moves to another environment they absorb the good, the bad and the ugly attributes of the hosting culture not by force but by choice.

If an African immigrant student moves to America then returns home as a "thug" Then the subtle message is to avoid AA youngsters and teens ,is that not so?

"Thuggism" as a style is prevalent is the countries mentioned above where the population of AA kids is nil. Media culture is the culprit in this scenario and as stated the choice of the individual and some environmental factors determines how he acts behaves, etc."Thuggism" is a major market now and "thugs" or thug acting kids are in Europe , Asia and Africa.

If an immigrant child is educated in France does he become a better Frenchman or educated in England , a better Brit or educated in America a better "white kid" or a hoodlumnized "black homey"???

"JUST BECAUSE YOUR IN IT DOESN'T MEAN YOU ARE OF IT" unless you choose to do so.
quote:
Originally posted by zodo:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Oshun Auset:

Not to be the devils advocate. And not to fuel the flames of stereotypes...but this can be true to a certain extent. American consumer culture usually brings out the worst in everyone...whether one is born here, or lived here for a while. Not that all people who live here are worse off for it. By I can think of many of an example of a Westernized continental African that I have run into, especially the young ones, that makes me want to vomit. It's a damn shame to see some people take on the ignorance that some of us here have developed over the centuries because of the dehumanizing situations we had to endure...or rather, the image of Africans born in Amerikkka that the Amerikkkan imperialist propoganda machine(the media) likes to broadcast world wide.
________________________________________________


American consumer culture along with British, French, German, Japanese, Portuguese, and Italian comsumer culture have their affects on these individuals also.I suspect when a young person moves to another environment they absorb the good, the bad and the ugly attributes of the hosting culture not by force but by choice.

If an African immigrant student moves to America then returns home as a "thug" Then the subtle message is to avoid AA youngsters and teens ,is that not so?

"Thuggism" as a style is prevalent is the countries mentioned above where the population of AA kids is nil. Media culture is the culprit in this scenario and as stated the choice of the individual and some environmental factors determines how he acts behaves, etc."Thuggism" is a major market now and "thugs" or thug acting kids are in Europe , Asia and Africa.

If an immigrant child is educated in France does he become a better Frenchman or educated in England , a better Brit or educated in America a better "white kid" or a hoodlumnized "black homey"???

"JUST BECAUSE YOUR IN IT DOESN'T MEAN YOU ARE OF IT" unless you choose to do so.


Not to be flippant but didn't you just reiterate what I said? Check the hilighted part.

Doesn't "Not that all people who live here are worse off for it." mean I acknowledged that there are other factors, including that of personal choice involved?

quote:
If an African immigrant student moves to America then returns home as a "thug" Then the subtle message is to avoid AA youngsters and teens ,is that not so?


I think the broader message is to avoid raising your children in Amerikkka or around Amerikkkan youngsters. Amerikkkan raised children are percieved to be bad in general, reguardless of the ethnic goup they are a part of.

I've been to African and went to local schools and saw the way children behave...Speaking in general terms... I would have to agree. I'm seriousely considering not raising my future children here. But then again I don't plan on living here full time anyhow.

I'm well aware(and against) the stereotyping of Africans born in Amerikkka. But I'm no fan of Amerikkkan culture, and it's adverse effects on ANYONE(not everyone) who spends a serious amount of time here...

FYI...I thought the term 'akata' meant infidel...maybe Fagunwa can clarify.
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by zodo:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Oshun Auset:



FYI...I thought the term 'akata' meant infidel...maybe Fagunwa can clarify.



Dear Oshun.
My understanding of "akata" is wild animal...I was informed that it is a word derived from Yoruba or a dialect thereof meaning a wild animal similiar to a fox. I could be wrong!

Felix
quote:
Originally posted by Fagunwa:
I would never defend the use of the slur "akata" and I don't think I did in my post.

But I must say for the sake of historical correctness that the civil rights movement in this country was affected by the Liberation movements on the African continent too.


Please, it was not my intent to malign you, or accuse you of any such egregious 'name-calling'. Just that I have come late to this post, have just 'learned' what that word means, (ie. another slur to be used against the Black American) and was merely commenting on how for granted Black Americans are taken, not only by their 'countrymen', but by their ancestral/continental family as well. No you, the individual.
Janice,

I think the best way to fix African and African American relations is for people to educate themselves. It's pretty sad that not many African americans don't know about africa's history and present. I think that Africans as well need to learn about African Americans history.

The next step is to stop the circultion of negative images of African Americans and Africans in the media. A lot of people don't take the stereotypes that are presented on tv and the movies of AA seriously.People need to realize that these images are broadcasted ALL OF THE WORLD.
quote:
Originally posted by Sweetwuzzy:
Janice,

I think the best way to fix African and African American relations is for people to educate themselves. It's pretty sad that not many African americans don't know about africa's history and present. I think that Africans as well need to learn about African Americans history.

The next step is to stop the circultion of negative images of African Americans and Africans in the media. A lot of people don't take the stereotypes that are presented on tv and the movies of AA seriously.People need to realize that these images are broadcasted ALL OF THE WORLD.




SweetWuzzy:

I concur; AA's and A's have been spoon fed misinformation about one for decades which regurtitates as distrust and suspicion. It's rare when the media focuses on those of who try to bridge the info-gap. A particular program in Harlem ,N.Y. where Sengalese and AA teens meet, discuss issues and share in teen oriented activities has proven to be highly successful but one would have to look far and wide to locate this program in the current media.
quote:
Originally posted by Sweetwuzzy:
Janice,

I think the best way to fix African and African American relations is for people to educate themselves. It's pretty sad that not many African americans don't know about africa's history and present. I think that Africans as well need to learn about African Americans history...........



Now that would imply that these folks are even willingly to even consider that option..."educate themselves" ...geez, sweatwuzzy...that would imply work, effort, having an open mind....more work! Might win but a select few!
Personally, I am willingly to bet that more of African Americans (AA) would be more willing to take you up on that offer to educate themselves on African issue than Africans on AA related issues without a doubt in my mind. It always baffled me about that observation that to me it seemed that AAs were far more interested in learning about Africans and less likely to simply blow off the notion of learning about African culture as non-existent as some Africans I have come across who continue to just simply view AAs as cultureless..never understood it completely....I guess this is more reflective of our collective (albeit preprogrammed)self-hatred.
Personally, I am willingly to bet that more of African Americans (AA) would be more willing to take you up on that offer to educate themselves on African issue than Africans on AA related issues without a doubt in my mind. It always baffled me about that observation that to me it seemed that AAs were far more interested in learning about Africans and less likely to simply blow off the notion of learning about African culture as non-existent as some Africans I have come across who continue to just simply view AAs as cultureless..never understood it completely....I guess this is more reflective of our collective (albeit preprogrammed)self-hatred.---folobatuyi

On reading this observation, it seems consistent with the circumstance.

There is very little reciprocity in the perception of those of African nations, and those of us of African America.

I have experienced Africans perceiving us as being without a culture. I have come to realize this is because there is little of us in their history, as they learn it.

I also came to realize that many of us were abandoned (sold) by their ancestors as a people of their own. This is a very hard fact for many of us, African American-Americans to accept.

But it is true nonetheless.

Many Africans see us a being without 'roots'; to borrow a term.

On the other hand, we African American-Americans have been in a desperate search for identity for generations.

We have always been taught that the only place we can look is to Africa. Africa is our obvious origin, biologically and geographically.

Yet, we don't know where, and Africa is a very big place.

There is no one there to accept us.

Humanitarian acts are always appreciated. They are not however acts of acknowledgment.

Most of us are still not confident in our own authority to determine who we are.

The DeGruy-Leary Effect is a very, very deep trauma.

But we are getting there.

Relations between African American-Americans and people of African nations will become better as our perception and declaration of our ancestral nationality becomes greater.


PEACE

Jim Chester

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