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At this point I feel that it is time for me add the third (probably the final) installment of my series of threads exclusively discussing the real economic state of Black America. The first two threads "The REAL economic of Black America" http://africanamerica.org/eve/...213/m/6541034384/p/1 and "T.R.E.S.O.B.A. part deux" http://africanamerica.org/eve/...60213/m/92210882/p/1 opened up this issue and hopefully helped those who I was trying to reach to view our situation in a whole new way. I knew that this topic would inspire a lot of emotion because it challenged a lot of beliefs that Blacks hold dear...such as how it relates to the way we view our "progress" here as a people. To many Blacks the only way we can be viable as a people is by working through and within the confines of the current socioeconomic construct that we find ourselves in. Many would argue that working within this construct is the most prudent course of action since after all the white dominated society permeates every level of our socioeconomic existence in this country. So to many this status quo seems normal and natural even...they don't even view white racism as an artificial carefully crafted facade (which is all it really is) but as an unalterable reality in which we will forever have to work within the "rules" of. It's similar to if someone was born and raised in a town where the air and water was polluted and they never lived or visited any place else...their concept of what air and water is would be based on their experience with the polluted version of it.

This is what the mentality is like for many Blacks in this country as it relates to our existence here...we equate living within a white dominated society to being as natural and inescapable as the people in the polluted town example. The people in the aforementioned town would argue that their very existence depended on breathing that air and drinking that water...the pollution from their point of view would be just a "natural" thing that they have to deal with in order to receive the life preserving benefits of the air and water. This is the same logically flawed reasoning that blacks use when they place their hopes and dreams regarding being a viable people solely within the construct of this white dominated society. They believe that the only choice we have as a people is to forever live in a white dominated socioeconomic order and that we can never be a truly independent and viable people on our own. In their mind being dominated by a white society is as natural and vital to our existence as the air and water in my previous example...but the truth of the matter is that it is actually the POLLUTION.


Just like the people in my polluted town example would not only survive but THRIVE if they separated themselves from a polluted environment and consequently replacing the polluted air and water they had been dealing with. Blacks would both survive and THRIVE if they started taking action to unify and coalesce around a central goal of spiritual, cultural, and socioeconomic ethno-aggregation. This means having a SEPARATE identity than the one we currently have allowed this white dominated society to place on us....we can no longer afford to let others define who and what we are Blacks MUST begin to see ourselves as a GROUP with our own needs that are DISTINCT from any other group in this country. That means no more of all this backward B.S. talk about "multi-culturalism" any so called "Black Leader" who come to Blacks with this gibberish should be completely and severely ostracized at best...for all they are doing is openly selling out Black interests in exchange with "getting along" with other groups who themselves practice ethno-aggregation.

The bottom line is that time is running out fast for Blacks in this country there is a paradigm shift that needs to be made in the mentality of our people...If not Blacks will be forced into an even lower rung on the latter of this society in the years to come. I've spoken extensively about where this overall economy is headed and it's inevitable... so if Blacks were prudent they could use this crisis as an opportunity to detach themselves from YT's failing socioeconomic construct and start working on their own. However, I'm of the personal belief that Blacks are not going to truly come together as a group until they see their very life depending on it...so given this reality in my next post I'm going to focus on some things that we can do as individuals to prepare ourselves and deal with the severe things that are to come.
"In a world where lies have become accepted as fact..The truth when finally heard burns like a flame of fire" "It is irrational to want that which is not God's will, so attune thyself with thy inner Nature and live happily."
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quote:
Originally posted by Malik:
What you're calling "separation", I would call simple autonomy. I agree that self-governance is imperative, and I think it's imperative in all spheres: spiritual, psychological, social and economic. It starts at the level of the individual working within himself, his family and his neighborhood.



I use the term separation to underscore the fact that I'm speaking about Blacks functioning as an independent and viable group totally distinct from a white socioeconomic construct. Perhaps the term separation may be inflammatory to some for whatever reason... and the word "autonomy" may be more palatable to them. However, it really doesn't matter to me as long as the effect is still the same...the first step though is Blacks need to begin thinking along these lines and in the coming years they are going to have to... not just to thrive but to survive.
quote:
Originally posted by umbrarchist:
Wouldn't mandatory accounting be useful for that? Every household would know how to be as independent as possible.

Oh yeah, I'm a con______y th____st, I must not know what I'm talking about.

um



You know something umbrarchist I've come to the conclusion that you have been miffed at me ever since I described you as the "resident conspiracy theorist" when I first joined this site. I'm not sure why you would consider it to be an insult in fact I think that many conspiracy theories are rooted in truth. However, the only problem I have is when these theories don't make room for what sometimes is merely coincidence or happenstance.

Regarding your relentless pursuit of mandatory accounting as the cure all for every ill that plagues the human race...all I can say is while mandatory accounting does have it's limits... I actually agree with you that mandatory accounting can be useful to Black independence. Any skills that Blacks can utilize to build their own community/society would go a lot further to benefit them than using those same skills to further advance a white dominated one.
quote:
Regarding your relentless pursuit of mandatory accounting as the cure all for every ill that plagues the human race...all I can say is while mandatory accounting does have it's limits..


Oh, it's not as simple as that.

One of the problems is the way European culture compartMENTALIZES knowledge. Someone sent me an email asking what accounting had to do with economics. I showed this to a man from India who is trained as an accountant and read The Economist regularly. All he did was bust out laughing.

A number of things need to be integrated with that accounting. The connections between depreciation and NET WORTH in households because our accounting books only deal with businesses and treat depreciation as just what gets filed with the IRS. The understanding of technology in how planned obsolescence helps create that depreciation is relevant to the entire American way of life.

http://www.toxicdrums.com/econ...s-by-dal-timgar.html

I am not interested in any conspiracy theories. It is just a matter of analyzing the facts. One fact is that the laws of physics don't change style year to year, just like the physics of the WTC is the same as the physics of the Empire State Building.

um
quote:
Originally posted by umbrarchist:
quote:
Regarding your relentless pursuit of mandatory accounting as the cure all for every ill that plagues the human race...all I can say is while mandatory accounting does have it's limits..


Oh, it's not as simple as that.

One of the problems is the way European culture compartMENTALIZES knowledge.

um



I see... so your problem is with the way accounting is taught in this country as a different subject than overall economics. Well all I can say um is that there are many things in this society that are not conducive to the way our true culture is supposed to function.

The individualistic nature of every thing from academia to entertainment in this country runs counter to the group dynamic of our natural culture. A big part of the reason that the American family and culture are in decline is because of all the self absorbed individualistic products being pushed in society.

Between all the "ipod's" and "iphones" and other technologies that keep people self absorbed families rarely even eat at the same table anymore. As bad as this type of degeneration is for American culture it's even worse for Blacks in particular. As I said before Blacks need to have a paradigm shift in the way they interact with each other...and as Malik mentioned a good place to start is within our own families.
Alright, heres the deal... as I said before I want to share a few things that we can do on an individual basis to prepare for some severe times ahead. For starters let me be clear I am primarily only addressing those who understand the nature of the things that I'm talking about. I know that there are those who read my posts and seriously take them to heart because you have indicated this to me personally...So I feel obligated to talk about this subject matter in order to provide some information that will at least get certain people thinking along the lines or preparation...whether they take my full advice or not. As for those who don't believe that things are going to get as bad as I'm stating and you feel that these politicians have the answers...that's fine but you would be wise to hedge your bets just in case you are wrong.

Anyway, as some members on this site are aware I personally have an extensive background in economics, finance and investing...I've given much financial advice on and off these boards over the years that has helped people make prudent decisions. Now based on more and more information that I'm getting I see that making sound decisions is more crucial than ever. Before the financial collapse that happened last year even happened I was telling people to prepare for it...I'm doing so again because I see even bigger things going down within the next couple years. So the question is so if all these things are going to inevitably take place what are some things you can do to prepare? For starters you have to change your mindset with regard to the status quo...Black people in general tend to be much too faithful in this current system. There are whites (who this system was set up for in the first place) who make MILLIONS if not BILLIONS of dollars by betting AGAINST the system. There are many ways to capitalize on markets going down or hedging yourself. I have shared many of these strategies over the years but at this point as I keep learning more and more about the true state of this country I'm abandoning dollar based strategies all together. I'm looking to move a good part of my financial assets away from the dollar into more foreign currencies, commodities and precious metals.

The only positions I may maintain in dollar denominations are short positions like "put options" (I'll explain these more later) for example...I know I may be talking over some peoples heads and I'm not aware of everyones financial situation. So I'm going to try to address the issues of those who already have a nice amount of financial resources and those who don't. As I said Blacks are not going to implement these strategies together as a GROUP... so it's up to us to work as individuals and loosely share information with one another. For those who don't have as many financial assets that need protecting your primary concern should be making sure you have all your basics in order. Below I'm going to repost an exchange between NTA and myself regarding things that you should be working towards acquiring right now for you and your family....I will be adding some new things to this list in the days to come and I invite others to do the same if you have something to share.....

quote:
Originally posted by LieDecrypter:
quote:
Originally posted by Noah The African:

I am glad to hear what you told me brother…..that you are preparing yourself and your family and might not be posting much longer. I wish I heard more people on this site, as well as others, make some indication that they are preparing for what’s coming. At this point of time…..this is what people can be doing, ignoring investment information.




I appreciate you mentioning the basic necessities aspect of this...often time we get too caught up in the socio-economics of it all and over look this. However, Just for the record I am well equipped with what you mentioned and then some as follows....

Guns and Ammo

*Check*

Although I really don't like guns as I feel that they are cowardly weapons which has been proven in history with the white mans reliance on them to take lands away from much braver and SUPERIOR warriors such as the ZULU in Africa and SIOUX in this country. Although I do own some (a Smith & Wesson 38 special and a Remington 870 12 gauge) however these are only for home defense and a LAST resort. I prefer silent weapons like knives, long staff's and numchuks I even have a Wakizashi Samurai sword that I keep in a china cabinet (for display purposes only of course).

I also believe that brothers need to get more proficient with close combat tactic's like Judo or Jujitsu we are world renown for being "good with our hands" but I'm a proponet for going outside the box. Sometimes I wish we could go back to the days when the most deadly weapon a man could have was a SPEAR there is something honorable about that to me. Now a days any weak azz fool can pick up a gun and shoot up everybody.. Do you think they could pull off a drive by with a spear?

Which leads me to my last point regarding protection against hand gun fire I also got my hands on some Level 2 body armor (the Kevlar kind that police use) I personally believe that a Black man who has the means should have this kind of vest in his closet right next to his best suit.
We should always pray for peace but be prepared for war especially us Black men considering we disproportionately seem to be the target...


3 months supply of water (at least). 3 months supply of food (you can survive longer without food than water)

*Check*

I tend to stock up on things as a general rule... and I normally get a few cases of bottled water when I go grocery shopping (although I don't think I have 3 months worth currently I need to work on that) Fortunately, I decided to stop renting out the other apartment in my building so I have extra space to store up extra food and supplies without it interferring with my primary living area.

If possible, get some hard currency out of your bank in case of bank failure and freezing of accounts.

*Check*

Might I also add invest in a fire proof home safe and keep a passport and foreign currency in it as well


Keep your car at least 2/3 full…..in case of a major interruption in supply.

*Check*

I always fill up at the station (especially since prices have fallen) and on a side note...Although storing gasoline and other flammable substances is hazardous and should be done with EXTREME care. I once heard of people who had fuel tanks professionally installed in their back yards...this might be worth some researching

Buy a generator if possible in case of major power outages.
*Check*

Good point I don't think people invest enough in back up power sources..since electric companies normally can have power back on within a few hours. Personally, I have TWO generators a bigger one thats stationary and a smaller one thats mobile in order to help others who might need power. I also have my computers, televisions and all other electrical equipment plugged into surge protected back up power bases. I recommend everyone do this don't get the cheap $30-$50 kind either... a good back up power supply like the kind APC or Cyber Power makes will run you about $150 and up. I know this may be expensive to some but to protect your equipment its worth it...besides you've probably already spent a couple grand on your stuff why not protect your investment?

Buy some “How to books” and guides.

*Check*

Even if some want to go the cheap route they can print info from websites now while the power is on...

Learn gardening and growing your own food.

This is an execellent point I've always been interested in learning more about gardening...thats something I want/need to brush up on... thanks for the reminder

Step up your game at work…..if possible. Make sure that the value you add gets recognized.

*Check*

Although, I mostly work for myself except for some on site contract work here and there....I see your point about maintaining the value of whatever product or service you are providing

Don’t make any major purchases is possible.

*Check*

Although I'm not a miser ( I mean you've got to have some fun and it's ok to splurge every once in a while) I tend to be frugal and never try to spend more than I have to on luxuries. The last major purchase I made was building a new entry fence to my property...but you can see how that ties into this theme of being prepared for the worse.

Eat Healthy and exercise to stay healthy. Stock up on medicines.

*Check*

I exercise regularly and I tend to be in very good overall health...I don't eat Pork and I only eat Beef occasionally...When I eat meat I prefer Turkey, Chicken and Fish. To me turkey in particular is becoming the new 'red meat' I'm using turkey bacon (which is great alternative to regular bacon by the way with much less fat) and ground turkey in place of ground beef and its just as good. There are also great soy products out there to not just for meat substitutes but for milk (I also like rice milk to). I keep a lot of medicines and antibiotics also along with first aid kits with bandages.

Have a plan of merging without other family members to make ends meet. Think of immigrants and their living arrangement model.

I thank God that fortunately I invested in rental properties years ago... so if worse comes to worse and my current tenants can no longer maintain them... I could replace them with my closest family and friends if need be. I prefer this option to shacking up 20-30 deep in a single apartment ala Mexicano...I look after my people but I need my space.


I don’t know when the hyper-inflation is going to kick in. My guess is when the stimulus money actually gets loaned out and spent. When inflation is high, its best to owe the government taxes from the previous year, because you will be paying them back in dollars that are worth a lot less than when you spent them. If the government owes you from previous years taxes, then they will be paying you back in money that is worth less than when they took it from you. Thus, either you or the government is going to get short changed...best it be the gubment.

As I rule I tend to take as many exemptions/deductions as possible and put money in PRETAX investment vehicles... I don't like the idea of giving the Government a zero interest loan for a whole year..I prefer to keep my money from the beginning


Ect……….there are a lot more things to do that are part of normal disaster preparation. However, if there is a collapse or sudden shock, look for chaos to ensue for a few months before it is stabilized by the military and martial law.

Of course, these suggestions are for the wost case scenario and I pray that it never gets that bad….but I am afraid that it is a real probability. If it never gets to that…….your investments can be put to other use or sold. It better to be prepared and not to need it than to need it but did not prepare.


Thats correct I feel that theres nothing on your list that people can't or shouldn't be doing right now just as a general practice... No matter what happens you can't go wrong being 'overprepared'...people should have the common sense to realize that we are in uncharted territory and the probabilty that things will get much worse before they get better should be evident. It's up to each individual on how they want to deal with this reality...

P.S. what did you think of the video link I sent you? did you notice how they broke down the disconnect between the REAL physical economy and the PHONY inflated one?
I am glad that you are reposting this. Another thing that I like to mention is bartering. I have set up a barter Business in a couple of test markets in Michigan and am about to leverage the web to reduce the manual effort. Bartering is the original economy. It’s what people turned to in Argentina when their economy collapsed a decade or so ago.

When you think about it, an economic collapse is the collapse mostly of the money supply, although it can be related to a resource collapse (which is here or coming as well). You don’t have a collapsing of skill sets. In a collapsing economy people have the same skills, if not greater, than they had prior to the collapse……but they just lack money to facilitate trade. Our economy is totally dependent upon money (currency, credit…whatever), when it really does not need to be. People can trade via barter, swapping skills for skills as members of a bartering Network or club.

The simple model of bartering is that you need a service and you give your service or skill to the person who gives you theirs. That is very limiting because it’s hard to find a match between an individual who needs what you are offering and who can provide you what you need. This is why a currency concept is needed to allow the store of credits or WORK (Money is actually the store of the value of ones labor...or it should be in theory) which can be redeemed for services from another member at any time. It will not eliminate ones need for cash by a long shot, but it reduces your need for money and allows you to you your real money for fixed cost, like housing. Bartering also is protection against deflation and inflation. If prices skyrocket in the free market, it does not impact skills traded in the barter network, because you trading services for services and not inflating or deflating dollars.

My web site is currently under construction but here is an example of a website that provides the same basic business model and functionality, with the exception being that it a business to business barter. My company offers business to business, individual to individual and I am integrating swapping (exchanging material goods for other goods and or services).


PS....this is NOT my website below!!!

http://www.peopletradingservices.com/
quote:
Originally posted by Noah The African:
I am glad that you are reposting this. Another thing that I like to mention is bartering. I have set up a barter Business in a couple of test markets in Michigan and am about to leverage the web to reduce the manual effort. Bartering is the original economy. It’s what people turned to in Argentina when their economy collapsed a decade or so ago.

When you think about it, an economic collapse is the collapse mostly of the money supply, although it can be related to a resource collapse (which is here or coming as well). You don’t have a collapsing of skill sets. In a collapsing economy people have the same skills, if not greater, than they had prior to the collapse……but they just lack money to facilitate trade. Our economy is totally dependent upon money (currency, credit…whatever), when it really does not need to be. People can trade via barter, swapping skills for skills as members of a bartering Network or club.

The simple model of bartering is that you need a service and you give your service or skill to the person who gives you theirs. That is very limiting because it’s hard to find a match between an individual who needs what you are offering and who can provide you what you need. This is why a currency concept is needed to allow the store of credits or WORK (Money is actually the store of the value of ones labor...or it should be in theory) which can be redeemed for services from another member at any time. It will not eliminate ones need for cash by a long shot, but it reduces your need for money and allows you to you your real money for fixed cost, like housing. Bartering also is protection against deflation and inflation. If prices skyrocket in the free market, it does not impact skills traded in the barter network, because you trading services for services and not inflating or deflating dollars.

My web site is currently under construction but here is an example of a website that provides the same basic business model and functionality, with the exception being that it a business to business barter. My company offers business to business, individual to individual and I am integrating swapping (exchanging material goods for other goods and or services).


PS....this is NOT my website below!!!

http://www.peopletradingservices.com/



It's good that you posted this NTA because I do believe that alternative economic ideas and structures should be formulating in the minds of our people. In the event of a true economic collapse Blacks will likely be the first to feel it...this creates an opportunity to become galvanized in order to deal with it by having their own "sub economy" and bartering is a good example of this. This concept is really not new to us since there have been many instances in history where Blacks have bartered with each other as a means to circumvent being locked out of this economy. However, since the advent of integration these instances are fewer and more far between as Blacks prefer to pump their money into whites or some other ethnic groups economy...in lieu of building and sustaining their own markets. Maybe the one good thing that may come out of this impending economic collapse will be Blacks for the first time in nearly 400 years will be free to structure themselves outside of the jurisdiction of a white controlled economic construct.

Indeed there will be those among us that will bemoan the fact that YT's grand ole plantation has come to an end and will conclude that we cannot sustain ourselves without him..however, I believe many more will come to the realization that we have been limiting ourselves all these years by trying to be "equal" to massah in his failing plantation...when we should have been working towards being masters in our own to begin with.
Commentary below is extended from the conversation in the Clarance Thomas thread...

Kweli, as I told you before I respect you as a poster... because you seem to be very reasonable and are receptive when presented with cold hard facts so that's why I'm going to take the time right now to break down the numbers regarding just how "middle class" Blacks in this country are. Just like after I broke down the numbers in this thread http://africanamerica.org/eve/...0213/m/415100771/p/1 dealing with that other economic fairy tale and you had no choice but to admit I was telling the truth...I'm going to present you with numbers below that reveal the notion that Blacks are mostly "middle class" is also a fairy tale.

Hopefully, after you digest these stats you will realize from here on out that when politicians (including Obama) use the term "middle class" they do not have Blacks in mind. To the extent they have any Blacks in mind at all when they use this term... it only represents a small sliver of the Black demographic so how can they truly be addressing the Black condition when the vast majority of Blacks don't make up the class in which they focus the most on i.e., the "Middle Class"?

Here are the real economic stats for Blacks in this country and when you really accept what they are saying and the ramifications it's astonishing that Blacks accept this as "normal"....

Overall Economic Security
African-American families have more difficulty moving into the middle class, and the families that do are less secure and at higher risk of falling back out.

Only 26 percent of African-American middle-class families have the combination of assets, education, sufficient income, and health insurance to ensure middle-class financial security.

One in three (33 percent) are at high risk of falling out of the middle class. This is in sharp contrast to the middle class as a whole, where 31 percent are secure and 21 percent are at risk.


Alarmingly Insufficient Assets
Sixty-eight percent of African-American middle-class households have no net financial assets whatsoever and live from paycheck to paycheck.

Only 2 percent of African-American middle-class families have enough net financial assets to meet three-quarters of their essential living expenses for nine months if their source of income disappeared. well below the already alarmingly low national average of 13 percent.

Even more alarming, 95 percent of African-American middleclass families do not have enough net assets to meet three-quarters of their essential living expenses for even three months if their source of income were to disappear. This figure is well above the national average among all middle-class families of 78 percent.


Inadequate Incomes to Meet Housing Expenses
Only 26 percent of African-American middle-class families spend less than 20 percent of their after-tax income on housing—below the national average of 40 percent.

Thirty-one percent of African-American middle-class families match the Department of Housing and Urban Development’s definition for housing burdened, spending 30 percent or more of their after-tax income on housing expenses. This falls well above the national average of 28 percent of all middle-class families.

Inadequate Incomes to Meet Essential Expenses
Thirty-six percent of African-American middle-class families are secure in being able to meet essential family needs because they have $25,000 or more left over after paying income taxes and meeting essential family needs each year, compared to the national average 34 percent.

Nineteen percent of African-American families are at risk of falling out of the middle class because they have less than $5,000 per year left over after paying for taxes and essential expenses, compared to the national average of 21 percent.


http://www.blackdemographics.com/middle_class.html


Unless someone starts targeting these issues specifically and directly no amount of trying to "raise all boats in the tide" or specifically helping the mostly white "middle class" is going to do a damn thing for the plight of Blacks in his country.
quote:
Originally posted by Fabulous:
quote:
Maybe the one good thing that may come out of this impending economic collapse will be Blacks for the first time in nearly 400 years will be free to structure themselves outside of the jurisdiction of a white controlled economic construct.


19 interesting.


In what way? elaborate if you don't mind...
quote:
Originally posted by LieDecrypter:
quote:
Originally posted by Fabulous:
quote:
Maybe the one good thing that may come out of this impending economic collapse will be Blacks for the first time in nearly 400 years will be free to structure themselves outside of the jurisdiction of a white controlled economic construct.


19 interesting.


In what way? elaborate if you don't mind...


It brings a few questions to mind on an admittedly emotional level.

As a race/group of ppl....are we up to this? In my observation, too many folk want quick fixes...

Is it possible that we can unify.........in a way that would allow us to 'structure ourselves'?

I'm disappointed (sometimes) in what I see coming from blk folk.

I was involved in a work program geared toward summer jobs for high school students (recent graduates). Of the 200 applicants, there were maybe 4 or 5 black students.

I know for a fact that more than 4 or 5 black students received the (job) information because I made it a personal mission of mine to get the word out (to them specifically).

Later, when I asked the black students (who had dropped out of the program) why they chose to drop out, I was told the training process was "too much trouble"...

part of the training involved attending ONE class & writing ONE resume .... the kids I talked to felt the process was "too much trouble."

Still, I talked until I was blue in the face, more than willing to help in any way I could. I offered to provide transportation to & from. I made sack lunches (very tasty & healthy sack lunches ..I might add Smile) to those who had no money for lunch.

I tried to be as supportive & encouraging as I could but to no avail.

So ... when I read "Blacks for the first time in nearly 400 years will be free to structure themselves outside of the jurisdiction of a white controlled economic construct," I'm wondering WHERE are those black folk and how can others aspire to OR (at least) encouraged to try.

In the end the 200 figure was reduced to about 130 and the majority of those are hispanic & white.

On a more positive note...the one black (male) teen (18 years old) stands out above all the rest (academically, in the area of maturity, demeanor & professionalism), and the adults have taken to calling him 'SUPERSTAR'.

He has taken me up on that 'ride' to & from and he also takes advantage of the sack lunch.

I just wonder will "too much trouble" be part of the theme song

when the time comes to 'structure ourselves'..
Last edited {1}
quote:
Originally posted by Fabulous:
quote:
Originally posted by LieDecrypter:
quote:
Originally posted by Fabulous:
quote:
Maybe the one good thing that may come out of this impending economic collapse will be Blacks for the first time in nearly 400 years will be free to structure themselves outside of the jurisdiction of a white controlled economic construct.


19 interesting.


In what way? elaborate if you don't mind...


It brings a few questions to mind on an admittedly emotional level.

As a race/group of ppl....are we up to this? In my observation, too many folk want quick fixes...

Is it possible that we can unify.........in a way that would allow us to 'structure ourselves'?



As a group currently no we are not up to this because we still see a possibility that we can be fully integrated with and "accepted" by white folk in this country (especially since the advent of Obama)...so it's going to take something of epic proportions to finally get us to see that being integrated with and accepted by whites in this country is not nor has it ever been the best or even a viable goal for Blacks in this country. The answer to the second part of your question regarding whether or not we can unify is (to borrow a phrase from Obama's campaign) YES WE CAN the only thing lacking is the proper impetus for us to do so...which I believe over the coming years such motivating forces will begin to take hold on the Black community.

Another thing I must clarify is that I don't believe that all Blacks will unify because the sad truth is there are some Blacks that simply won't make it...it's up to those among our people who are of a similar mind set and kindred spirit to link up and work with each other to build our communities. You simply cannot do this with every Black person just because they are Black...remember the saying "just because you're my color doesn't make you my brother"



quote:
I'm disappointed (sometimes) in what I see coming from blk folk.


You and me both however you must realize that Blacks are not functioning within an environment that is conducive to positive behavior for the must part...sometimes I wonder why some of us function as well as we do given the circumstances.


quote:

I was involved in a work program geared toward summer jobs for high school students (recent graduates). Of the 200 applicants, there were maybe 4 or 5 black students.

I know for a fact that more than 4 or 5 black students received the (job) information because I made it a personal mission of mine to get the word out (to them specifically).

Later, when I asked the black students (who had dropped out of the program) why they chose to drop out, I was told the training process was "too much trouble"...

part of the training involved attending ONE class & writing ONE resume .... the kids I talked to felt the process was "too much trouble."

Still, I talked until I was blue in the face, more than willing to help in any way I could. I offered to provide transportation to & from. I made sack lunches (very tasty & healthy sack lunches ..I might add Smile) to those who had no money for lunch.

I tried to be as supportive & encouraging as I could but to no avail.

So ... when I read "Blacks for the first time in nearly 400 years will be free to structure themselves outside of the jurisdiction of a white controlled economic construct," I'm wondering WHERE are those black folk and how can others aspire to OR (at least) encouraged to try.

In the end the 200 figure was reduced to about 130 and the majority of those are hispanic & white.

On a more positive note...the one black (male) teen (18 years old) stands out above all the rest (academically, in the area of maturity, demeanor & professionalism), and the adults have taken to calling him 'SUPERSTAR'.

He has taken me up on that 'ride' to & from and he also takes advantage of the sack lunch.

I just wonder will "too much trouble" be part of the theme song

when the time comes to 'structure ourselves'..


This is a wonderful story and shows how truly deep this defeatist attitude runs within our people...As I said the only way to break such a entrenched psychological hold is for it to be shocked out of our system....Blacks are going to have to learn to see ourselves as a distinct entity then what we have been taught about ourselves for nearly 400 years. The only way I see this happening is Blacks realizing that not only are whites unwilling to embrace Blacks but they will be unable to... due to them being forced to try to sustain themselves through the economic unraveling that's going to increase in intensity in the years to come. Whites are going to become more and more "conservative" as a result of this and then Blacks will see that structuring ourselves is no longer a matter of choice...but survival.
quote:
Originally posted by LieDecrypter:
quote:
Originally posted by Fabulous:
quote:
Originally posted by LieDecrypter:
quote:
Originally posted by Fabulous:
quote:
Maybe the one good thing that may come out of this impending economic collapse will be Blacks for the first time in nearly 400 years will be free to structure themselves outside of the jurisdiction of a white controlled economic construct.


19 interesting.


In what way? elaborate if you don't mind...


It brings a few questions to mind on an admittedly emotional level.

As a race/group of ppl....are we up to this? In my observation, too many folk want quick fixes...

Is it possible that we can unify.........in a way that would allow us to 'structure ourselves'?


As a group currently no we are not up to this because we still see a possibility that we can be fully integrated with and "accepted" by white folk in this country (especially since the advent of Obama)...so it's going to take something of epic proportions to finally get us to see that being integrated with and accepted by whites in this country is not nor has it ever been the best or even a viable goal for Blacks in this country. The answer to the second part of your question regarding whether or not we can unify is (to borrow a phrase from Obama's campaign) YES WE CAN the only thing lacking is the proper impetus for us to do so...which I believe over the coming years such motivating forces will begin to take hold on the Black community.

Another thing I must clarify is that I don't believe that all Blacks will unify because the sad truth is there are some Blacks that simply won't make it...it's up to those among our people who are of a similar mind set and kindred spirit to link up and work with each other to build our communities. You simply cannot do this with every Black person just because they are Black...remember the saying "just because you're my color doesn't make you my brother"


Now ain't that the truth..."just because you're my color doesn't make you my brother."

And the reality of those words can be seen almost anywhere ... even on this very board where some (who claim to be black) are anything BUT a brother or sister.

I agree with every point you've made...and I too believe (when it comes right down to it) YES WE CAN!


quote:
I'm disappointed (sometimes) in what I see coming from blk folk an


You and me both however you must realize that Blacks are not functioning within an environment that is conducive to positive behavior for the must part...sometimes I wonder why some of us function as well as we do given the circumstances.

Yes I do realize Smile... and I appreciate the reminder Smile

quote:

I was involved in a work program geared toward summer jobs for high school students (recent graduates). Of the 200 applicants, there were maybe 4 or 5 black students.

I know for a fact that more than 4 or 5 black students received the (job) information because I made it a personal mission of mine to get the word out (to them specifically).

Later, when I asked the black students (who had dropped out of the program) why they chose to drop out, I was told the training process was "too much trouble"...

part of the training involved attending ONE class & writing ONE resume .... the kids I talked to felt the process was "too much trouble."

Still, I talked until I was blue in the face, more than willing to help in any way I could. I offered to provide transportation to & from. I made sack lunches (very tasty & healthy sack lunches ..I might add Smile) to those who had no money for lunch.

I tried to be as supportive & encouraging as I could but to no avail.

So ... when I read "Blacks for the first time in nearly 400 years will be free to structure themselves outside of the jurisdiction of a white controlled economic construct," I'm wondering WHERE are those black folk and how can others aspire to OR (at least) encouraged to try.

In the end the 200 figure was reduced to about 130 and the majority of those are hispanic & white.

On a more positive note...the one black (male) teen (18 years old) stands out above all the rest (academically, in the area of maturity, demeanor & professionalism), and the adults have taken to calling him 'SUPERSTAR'.

He has taken me up on that 'ride' to & from and he also takes advantage of the sack lunch.

I just wonder will "too much trouble" be part of the theme song

when the time comes to 'structure ourselves'..


This is a wonderful story and shows how truly deep this defeatist attitude runs within our people...As I said the only way to break such a entrenched psychological hold is for it to be shocked out of our system....Blacks are going to have to learn to see ourselves as a distinct entity then what we have been taught about ourselves for nearly 400 years. The only way I see this happening is Blacks realizing that not only are whites unwilling to embrace Blacks but they will be unable to... due to them being forced to try to sustain themselves through the economic unraveling that's going to increase in intensity in the years to come. Whites are going to become more and more "conservative" as a result of this and then Blacks will see that structuring ourselves is no longer a matter of choice...but survival.


Thank you for breaking it down the way you have, your knowledge & insight (on the subject) is greatly appreciated.

Although, I do find it 'scary' to think the economy will get just that bad.....but better to be made aware of these things than not. Great post!
^^^No problem and while I can sympathize with those of us who may be "scared" at the prospects of this economy getting worse this is an instance where we should lot at the crisis as an opportunity. If anything Blacks should be scared NOW because currently they make up 14% of this nations population but only control .05 % of it's wealth. The people with most to lose are the ones that should most worried i.e. white folks. I'm well aware that there are Blacks who have a nice amount of assets currently and some of us are solidly middle and upper class (I include myself in this also) however I'm in the process of converting my assets into commodities that will survive a collapsed dollar. This will allow me to maintain a means to build the proper ties to business and personal relationships I'm making with like minded people around this country and the world.

People seem to think that when people like myself who are experts in economic matters start giving gloom and doom forecasts that we are somehow just being "negative" quite to the contrary...I am actually a very positive person which is why in spite of it all I still see a positive out look for my people...but I know without pain there will be no gain and yes Blacks are in for a lot of pain but I see this a a positive and potentially galvanizing force. Those blacks who are "progressive" among us need to realize that the progress that Blacks need to be seeking is autonomy away from a white dominated society and to not be so dependent on it. Many of us erroneously believe basically that if YT goes down we go down as if we have just as much to lose as he does...If reality we only stand to gain from the crumbling of a white dominated social construct that kept us locked as second class citizens with only .05% control of wealth. The same severe economic forces that will cause us to galvanize are the same forces that will give those of us who understand this the ability to redistribute more resources than this current construct allows.


Another thing that people don't understand is that things like this are not said just to be contrarian or provide shock value these things WILL happen it's only a matter of time...I'm looking at the numbers I see the forces at work everyday I'm just telling the TRUTH of the matter and making preparations to deal with the coming reality. I'm not saying these things just because I take pleasure in seeing this country fall...I was born and raised in America and I've managed to build a great life for myself here in spite of all the obstacles in the way of a Black man in this country.

However, I don't take my personal example as a standard that the average Black man in this country can follow...like too many of us do who manage to successfully navigate this system saying things like "I got mine so they need to get theirs". Yeah I can turn a blind eye to the plight of my people and just write off the Black condition as being "normal"... or I can take the time to share knowledge and build connections on and off these boards that will help more of us navigate the treacherous waters ahead...I choose to do the latter.
quote:
Originally posted by LieDecrypter:
^^^No problem and while I can sympathize with those of us who may be "scared" at the prospects of this economy getting worse this is an instance where we should lot at the crisis as an opportunity. If anything Blacks should be scared NOW because currently they make up 14% of this nations population but only control .05 % of it's wealth. The people with most to lose are the ones that should most worried i.e. white folks. I'm well aware that there are Blacks who have a nice amount of assets currently and some of us are solidly middle and upper class (I include myself in this also) however I'm in the process of converting my assets into commodities that will survive a collapsed dollar. This will allow me to maintain a means to build the proper ties to business and personal relationships I'm making with like minded people around this country and the world.

People seem to think that when people like myself who are experts in economic matters start giving gloom and doom forecasts that we are somehow just being "negative" quite to the contrary...I am actually a very positive person which is why in spite of it all I still see a positive out look for my people...but I know without pain there will be no gain and yes Blacks are in for a lot of pain but I see this a a positive and potentially galvanizing force. Those blacks who are "progressive" among us need to realize that the progress that Blacks need to be seeking is autonomy away from a white dominated society and to not be so dependent on it. Many of us erroneously believe basically that if YT goes down we go down as if we have just as much to lose as he does...If reality we only stand to gain from the crumbling of a white dominated social construct that kept us locked as second class citizens with only .05% control of wealth. The same severe economic forces that will cause us to galvanize are the same forces that will give those of us who understand this the ability to redistribute more resources than this current construct allows.


Another thing that people don't understand is that things like this are not said just to be contrarian or provide shock value these things WILL happen it's only a matter of time...I'm looking at the numbers I see the forces at work everyday I'm just telling the TRUTH of the matter and making preparations to deal with the coming reality. I'm not saying these things just because I take pleasure in seeing this country fall...I was born and raised in America and I've managed to build a great life for myself here in spite of all the obstacles in the way of a Black man in this country.

However, I don't take my personal example as a standard that the average Black man in this country can follow...like too many of us do who manage to successfully navigate this system saying things like "I got mine so they need to get theirs". Yeah I can turn a blind eye to the plight of my people and just write off the Black condition as being "normal"... or I can take the time to share knowledge and build connections on and off these boards that will help more of us navigate the treacherous waters ahead...I choose to do the latter.


appl Great post tfro & bow

It's unfortunate that too many of us (blk folk) have the 'house negro' mentality...forever loyal to the WHITE system of things, never wanting to see our own brothers & sisters advance or do better.

The same attitude leads the way in a sinking economic ship...

Personally, I'm taking notes & passing valuable information along.

Reminds me of the story in the bible (Revelations) about the brides who were given time to prepare for the bridegroom...

Some brides did (prepare)

and some didn't....

Happy are those taking this time to prepare. Smile

& thank goodness for brothers & sisters like you (LD) Smile
I believe the next thing we should start doing as a people is asking the question at what point do blacks start looking internally as opposed to externally to deal with the issues that plague our communities?

The answer to this is once the ILLUSION blacks have that they and YT some how are on the same side is DISSOLVED. Blacks have shed BLOOD, SWEAT and TEARS beyond measure to live, work, eat and fight in wars next to people that HATE us and who have proven it historically and currently time and time again. The fact that blacks still by in large seek white standards and approval proves this to be a psychological SICKNESS that has manifested itself into the form a prevailing ideology of nearly an entire people.

There is only one way to BREAK such a psychological hold...that is for the OBJECT of such psychological fixation i.e. white folk to initiate the disengagement. If left up to most blacks we will be forever begging YT for a place at HIS table however there is a problem with this YT is becoming less and less in control of his OWN destiny all the trouble brewing in the world for this country represents an affront on HIS power and prestige NOT ours we need to get that straight RIGHT NOW. It's like when brothers who fought in Vietnam said the Viet cong would tell them things like "you not our enemy we fight gweilo (white devil) only" they could not understand why blacks were fighting and dieing for people who did the things to us that they did.

Currently, the whole world is seeking to shift AWAY from the hegemony of this country politically and economically I see it more and more each day. Why do you think we are experiencing an ongoing economic crisis (forget about the stock market going back up it means nothing) and the dollar is weakening for example? Because countries are ever increasingly DUMPING the dollar and building up their OWN currencies and not allowing themselves to be pawns in this white man's sick international game anymore.

The American negro is fast becoming the only friend this American white man has left in the world everyone else is waking up and blacks here need to take heed and begin to learn how to function INDEPENDENT of YT because he's got his own problems. In the coming years as international pressures increase (and they will) blacks will have fewer and fewer options to go to YT for anything and they will be FORCED to look internally for solutions to our problems once and for all because at that point it will be DO or DIE and even the most obstinate sellout under those circumstances would be willing to cooperate with a Black agenda. Even if they are really rogues in disguise we will be in a better position to weed them out and deal with them at that point because they can no longer hide behind YT.
quote:
Originally posted by LieDecrypter:

Currently, the whole world is seeking to shift AWAY from the hegemony of this country politically and economically I see it more and more each day. Why do you think we are experiencing an ongoing economic crisis (forget about the stock market going back up it means nothing) and the dollar is weakening for example? Because countries are ever increasingly DUMPING the dollar and building up their OWN currencies and not allowing themselves to be pawns in this white man's sick international game anymore.



tfro well stated and i believe euro-americans will initiate the disengagement. On a daily basis they are being conditioned to view nonwhites as the enemy with messages from radio, cable news, political ads etc. A few claim to be "progressive", but they only laugh at the extremists, as they continue to beat the drum of "minorities are taking everything away from you"...
quote:
Originally posted by LieDecrypter:
I believe the next thing we should start doing as a people is asking the question at what point do blacks start looking internally as opposed to externally to deal with the issues that plague our communities?

The answer to this is once the ILLUSION blacks have that they and YT some how are on the same side is DISSOLVED. Blacks have shed BLOOD, SWEAT and TEARS beyond measure to live, work, eat and fight in wars next to people that HATE us and who have proven it historically and currently time and time again. The fact that blacks still by in large seek white standards and approval proves this to be a psychological SICKNESS that has manifested itself into the form a prevailing ideology of nearly an entire people.

There is only one way to BREAK such a psychological hold...that is for the OBJECT of such psychological fixation i.e. white folk to initiate the disengagement. If left up to most blacks we will be forever begging YT for a place at HIS table however there is a problem with this YT is becoming less and less in control of his OWN destiny all the trouble brewing in the world for this country represents an affront on HIS power and prestige NOT ours we need to get that straight RIGHT NOW. It's like when brothers who fought in Vietnam said the Viet cong would tell them things like "you not our enemy we fight gweilo (white devil) only" they could not understand why blacks were fighting and dieing for people who did the things to us that they did.

Currently, the whole world is seeking to shift AWAY from the hegemony of this country politically and economically I see it more and more each day. Why do you think we are experiencing an ongoing economic crisis (forget about the stock market going back up it means nothing) and the dollar is weakening for example? Because countries are ever increasingly DUMPING the dollar and building up their OWN currencies and not allowing themselves to be pawns in this white man's sick international game anymore.

The American negro is fast becoming the only friend this American white man has left in the world everyone else is waking up and blacks here need to take heed and begin to learn how to function INDEPENDENT of YT because he's got his own problems. In the coming years as international pressures increase (and they will) blacks will have fewer and fewer options to go to YT for anything and they will be FORCED to look internally for solutions to our problems once and for all because at that point it will be DO or DIE and even the most obstinate sellout under those circumstances would be willing to cooperate with a Black agenda. Even if they are really rogues in disguise we will be in a better position to weed them out and deal with them at that point because they can no longer hide behind YT.


Break it down, LD. This is spot on. tfro
I appreciate your feed backs Fab, Dissident and NS...even though I am a very busy man I don't mind giving of my time in this way because like I said before on other sites I view these posts that we are making as the proverbial "message in a bottle" that one casts out to the sea hoping that the right person will connect with it. Ultimately even though I've locked horns with some on this site (as I have on other sites also) I really do think it is a good group of people here and I'm glad I came. When I first decided to visit message boards in general I found myself seeking out white racists in order to match my wits against after awhile I began to feel my time online could be better spent than humiliating red necks and trailer trash so I started looking for black consciousness sites and that's how I found sites like this one.

Now I know I've gotten into disagreements with people here but I am really not here for that. My goal is to share my knowledge and experiences with my people and also learn from others... but that is not to say that if someone says something I deem to be foolish or dishonorable that I won't commence to check it and them. However, unlike my reason for doing it on white racists sites here it's to help and is mostly out of tough love and not meant to humiliate..although there are a few people here who are so consistent in their unrepentant idiocy that their only redeeming value on this site appears to be exposing the extent to which YT has been successful in corrupting the Black mind to think like him.

Which brings me to my next point.... what I'm going to say in the following posts is out of tough love and some might find it objectionable but what I'm going to express is truly the tough and harsh reality that we all must face up to as a people it is not meant as a scare tactic but I hope what I am about to say will motivate some of us to start making badly needed changes....

Below I'm going to share some quotes and statements I've posted on other sites that I deem are appropriate to post here at this juncture as well because I want us all to be on the same page of understanding what it is we are dealing with. Here is an analogy that will help to set this up the right way and put things into perspective ...

"Black America's history goes a long way toward "explaining" black Americans of today... In 1619, 390 years ago, Slavery began in what would become the United States of America. For 246 of those 390 years, black Americans lived in Slavery. 103 years consisted of the Jim Crow era. And it has been only the last 30 years that black Americans have lived "Equal Opportunity era." Broken down by percentages, black Americans have spent 65% of their American tour in Slavery, 27% subjected to Jim Crow racism, and 8% playing on a level playing field.

Based on these percentages, if black America's history were personified as an individual twenty-three year old black man, it would be comparable to him having spent the first fifteen years of his life continuously being physically, mentally, and sexually abused. For the next six years, until the age of twenty-one, he would have been unloved and unsupported as he moved in and out of foster homes and halfway houses. In his twenty-second and twenty-third years, he would be on his own. He would have very little education and few marketable skills. However, his greatest problem would be the tragic, trauma-filled life he had led. Without a great deal of understanding and meaningful counseling, his life would be difficult, if not impossible, to repair."


What this analogy doesn't touch much on however is the PSYCHOLOGICAL and SPIRITUAL repercussion's of all this on Black's so I'm going to take it a little further and show the types of blacks that this trauma has produced.
The way I see it you can break down African Americans generally into three basic categories....

1. PROTOTYPICAL: Those blacks who believe in and are passionate about INDIVIDUALISM and pursuing the "American Dream" by any means necessary whether it be legal or illegal and everything in between. These can be blacks from all walks of life from your every day 9 to 5 Joe Blow worker, Government official and corporate CEO to your thug on the street that "gotta get his." While they all may to some degree be mindful of the black struggle this does NOT take precedent over their OWN pursuits and they pretty much believe in "every man for himself" so these types usually have no problem "selling out" the larger black community if it can profit themselves.

2. INTEGRATIONIST: These are blacks who share the previous groups desire for the "American Dream" however where they differ from the previous group is that they are more concerned with the GROUP and they not only want the dream for themselves but want blacks to rise as a people. However the ONLY way they can fathom this happening is to COMPLETELY embrace the wider society. They take to heart the concept of the "melting pot" and believe that all blacks need to do is get into WHITE universities and MIMIC white behaviors and standards and we as a people will be pulled up by our "boot straps." Often time these blacks parodoxically want to be viewed as "conscious" yet in many cases they play down the concept of true BLACKNESS because it conflicts with their integrationist agenda. To some it would seem that this group like the first has SOLD OUT but it's really just that they have BOUGHT IN to the concept that blacks would be accepted once we achieve socio-economic and academic parity with the white man in THIS country.

3. CONSCIOUS/SEPARATIST: These are blacks who see the "American Dream" for what it is a DREAM they are ALWAYS mindful of the things that Blacks have suffered in this country and they don't believe that Blacks will EVER get a fair shake in this country no matter what. They feel that to the extent that blacks get anything from the larger society it should be used for their OWN communities and to build up their OWN people first. Whether it's their own spiritual institutions, schools stores or financial institutions they should all be BLACK OWNED and operated. These Blacks also believe in DEFINING themselves and their RACE with their OWN standards as opposed to hand me down standards originated by a long dead slave holder. Which ironically the other two categories of blacks seem so willing to embrace.

The interesting thing about this is that if you break this down into percentages 2/3 of Blacks or 66% (well I'm just going to round up to 70%) are actually NOT candidates for a UNIQUELY BLACK movement. Only 30% percent of us actually GET IT so it is important for those of us who do get it to NETWORK with LIKE MINDED blacks and build from this base and expand. I will go deeper into this concept a little bit later.
quote:
The American negro is fast becoming the only friend this American white man has left in the world everyone else is waking up and blacks here need to take heed and begin to learn how to function INDEPENDENT of YT because he's got his own problems. In the coming years as international pressures increase (and they will) blacks will have fewer and fewer options to go to YT for anything and they will be FORCED to look internally for solutions to our problems once and for all because at that point it will be DO or DIE and even the most obstinate sellout under those circumstances would be willing to cooperate with a Black agenda. Even if they are really rogues in disguise we will be in a better position to weed them out and deal with them at that point because they can no longer hide behind YT.


Good stuff here LD.

quote:
INTEGRATIONIST: These are blacks who share the previous groups desire for the "American Dream" however where they differ from the previous group is that they are more concerned with the GROUP and they not only want the dream for themselves but want blacks to rise as a people. However the ONLY way they can fathom this happening is to COMPLETELY embrace the wider society. They take to heart the concept of the "melting pot" and believe that all blacks need to do is get into WHITE universities and MIMIC white behaviors and standards and we as a people will be pulled up by our "boot straps." Often time these blacks parodoxically want to be viewed as "conscious" yet in many cases they play down the concept of true BLACKNESS because it conflicts with their integrationist agenda. To some it would seem that this group like the first has SOLD OUT but it's really just that they have BOUGHT IN to the concept that blacks would be accepted once we achieve socio-economic and academic parity with the white man in THIS country.


...In addition, I would like to add that the [black] integrationist, fails to realize that in order to be truly integrated in to this society would mean that there would have to be a large amount of redistribution of resources/wealth..., power. Given the fact that resources are becoming more and more limited, yt is not gonna position black folks to adequately compete against him or his children for those resources. He, yt, isn't gonna 'feed' somebody else's family before he feeds his own.

And for those who get all squeamish at the thought of revolution, black nationalism or the like, must realize that to truly integrate is in fact an act of revolution, for it will take white folks to undertake serious psychological re-structuring to change their perception(s) of black folks in this country.

Being that power has much to do with the relationship between one and another, be it individuals or groups, black folks, as a group, don't have power of any great consequence, or have not tapped into their, our, source of power, which I will appeal to the latter, should come as no surprise to find ourselves in the predicament the we are in as a people.

Be it to truly integrate or to build toward or for self-determiNATION it takes revolution an there is no way around it.
quote:
Originally posted by Raptor:
quote:
The American negro is fast becoming the only friend this American white man has left in the world everyone else is waking up and blacks here need to take heed and begin to learn how to function INDEPENDENT of YT because he's got his own problems. In the coming years as international pressures increase (and they will) blacks will have fewer and fewer options to go to YT for anything and they will be FORCED to look internally for solutions to our problems once and for all because at that point it will be DO or DIE and even the most obstinate sellout under those circumstances would be willing to cooperate with a Black agenda. Even if they are really rogues in disguise we will be in a better position to weed them out and deal with them at that point because they can no longer hide behind YT.


Good stuff here LD.

quote:
INTEGRATIONIST: These are blacks who share the previous groups desire for the "American Dream" however where they differ from the previous group is that they are more concerned with the GROUP and they not only want the dream for themselves but want blacks to rise as a people. However the ONLY way they can fathom this happening is to COMPLETELY embrace the wider society. They take to heart the concept of the "melting pot" and believe that all blacks need to do is get into WHITE universities and MIMIC white behaviors and standards and we as a people will be pulled up by our "boot straps." Often time these blacks parodoxically want to be viewed as "conscious" yet in many cases they play down the concept of true BLACKNESS because it conflicts with their integrationist agenda. To some it would seem that this group like the first has SOLD OUT but it's really just that they have BOUGHT IN to the concept that blacks would be accepted once we achieve socio-economic and academic parity with the white man in THIS country.


...In addition, I would like to add that the [black] integrationist, fails to realize that in order to be truly integrated in to this society would mean that there would have to be a large amount of redistribution of resources/wealth..., power. Given the fact that resources are becoming more and more limited, yt is not gonna position black folks to adequately compete against him or his children for those resources. He, yt, isn't gonna 'feed' somebody else's family before he feeds his own.

And for those who get all squeamish at the thought of revolution, black nationalism or the like, must realize that to truly integrate is in fact an act of revolution, for it will take white folks to undertake serious psychological re-structuring to change their perception(s) of black folks in this country.

Being that power has much to do with the relationship between one and another, be it individuals or groups, black folks, as a group, don't have power of any great consequence, or have not tapped into their, our, source of power, which I will appeal to the latter, should come as no surprise to find ourselves in the predicament the we are in as a people.

Be it to truly integrate or to build toward or for self-determiNATION it takes revolution an there is no way around it.



Good commentary Raptor...I appreciate you pointing out the fact that to be truly "equal" is not just a function of being able to eat at WHITE OWNED establishments or to spend your money in any other WHITE OWNED business...the idea of equality would be Blacks having BLACK OWNED establishments...such as we had prior to the ill conceived goals of the "civil rights movement".

When I get a little more time I'm going to breakdown some of the things which blacks gave up in exchange for this foolish quest to be 'integrated'.
Given the amount of misinformation and sheer lack of understanding out here among our people when it comes to basic economic concepts I'm inspired to dedicate a few posts exclusively to the goal of helping those who wish to garner more understanding of these principles. As someone who is an expert in this field of knowledge I feel that it is my responsibility to do so...especially considering the magnitude of the things that I know are coming. So I'm going to start these next series of posts with the basic concept of the mechanics of money...I once posted this on another website and I got a great deal of positive feed back for it...people told me that it really helped them understand these things in a new way. I hope that it will have the same effect on this site I may say somethings that some may find objectionable... however it should be noted that my intention is not to offend... but just to state the hardcore truth... so with that lets get started....

Learning about the "mechanics of money" to me is right up there with learning to talk and walk in terms of it's importance with regard to a person being able to navigate the world around them. Think about it.... the advantages that a person who can talk and walk has over another person who cannot perform these basic functions are ENORMOUS. Their worlds would be entirely different the one that can perform these basic tasks would have at their disposal an array of options in every facet of their life. Meanwhile the person who is crippled and unable to speak would have virtually no options and would be at the mercy of others. I used this generic example for a reason I wanted to illustrate that in spite of the fact that walking and talking are considered "basic functions" having these skills actually provide benefits that are EXPONENTIAL when considered in contrast to not having them.

The same concept applies to the person who understands the mechanics of money versus the person who doesn't. The differential in their abilities to navigate the world around them would be just as stark and astronomical as the prior example used. So that we are clear let me give my definition as to what the mechanics of money means (this may differ from other peoples views as I'm sure if you put 10 economists in a room they would all have their own definitions) mine is as follows....

First off I don't look at money in a physical or tangible sense I know this may sound strange and may seem to be a foreign way of looking at things (especially to us as a people in general since we were never properly taught this concept as a whole). I see money in the ABSTRACT sense... for example an architect will look at a house or building quite differently than say a family who wants to buy it. The family would be consumed with the AESTHETICS of the house such as how the kitchen and bathroom looks or how big the pool is. The architects assessment of the house would be from an CONCEPTUAL point of view and consequently the architect would be in a better position intellectually to make any necessary changes to the house.

As this relates to money black people for the most part have a rather pedestrian view and understanding of it... from an early age blacks are taught to desire and value money INTRINSICALLY. This is a VERY flawed thought process to have and it sets in motion a series of events that happens disproportionately to blacks which render them financially handicapped. Most business people (myself included) will say that if you go into a business strictly to make money or become rich you are almost doomed to failure. Why is that? are we not taught that if you want something you should focus on it? Yes and for the most part that is true but when it comes to money things are a bit different. The mechanics of money speaks to those processes by which money is produced.... it's kind of like the concept of "reverse engineering" whereby the focus is not on the final product but the concepts and systems which produced it.

You see this is what elitist thinkers from western Europe to far east Asia figured out long ago.... in order to have control over a thing you can do this by simply taking it by force PHYSICALLY but this will only give you limited control for a limited period of time. However, if you control the ABSTRACT of a thing that is to say the process by which it is produced or sustained then you have ABSOLUTE control over it indefinitely. So if you control the process by which money is produced then you control money and he that controls the money can control the people. That is unless the people learn to control their money and not allow it to become a noose around their neck in the form of excess DEBT.

Now having said that I'm going to make some statements that may seem weird to those who don't have a good grasp of these concepts but hopefully over time they will become clear. The first of these "weird" statements that I will make is the following... Money is debt...That's right every single dollar in your wallet, purse, under your mattress and in your cookie jar is a DEBT instrument that was LOANED into existence. I know what you're thinking "Hey LD whatchu been smokin'?... whatchu mean money is loaned into existence?...doesn't money just come from the U.S. mint?" Well my answer to that is the U.S. mint's role in creating money is only a very small part of the story...the vast majority of the money in circulation in the U.S. money supply was simply created out of thin air by the Federal Reserve. For example This is done every time congress decides it needs something that it simply doesn't have the money to buy (imagine that)... it simply prints debt instruments in the form of decorative pieces of paper (Government bonds) and then sends these bonds to the Federal Reserve in exchange for the Fed's debt instruments (The U.S. Dollar) or "Federal Reserve Note" such as how it's printed on the top of every bill...go ahead take that dollar out of your pocket and read it. Which the Federal Reserve is actually LENDING to the U.S. Government at interest...it sounds crazy doesn't it? if you understand what I just said the most logical question you can ask is why would the U.S. be lending itself money at interest?...I'm glad you asked and I will go into that next time...in the interim a little word of advice...

To all my people reading this I advise you to make yourself as familiar with the current economic situation in this country as possible READ and pay attention learn as much as you can about money in general. Don't be a pedestrian like I said before when it comes to your money be the one in the drivers seat because a pedestrian is at risk of getting hit by someone who IS in the drivers seat and then becoming a cripple like my first example. I don't like to see my people being the victims I hope to see ALL my people walking tall.
Yours is a great post, LD. tfro

I had to take time to digest what you're saying, though, particularly your analogy of viewing money in the abstract sense versus what most of us (blk folk) do - value money INTRINSICALLY.

My question is....

how does one go about changing how they look at money? Because old habits die hard.

How do you control money in the abstract?
quote:
Originally posted by Fabulous:
Yours is a great post, LD. tfro

I had to take time to digest what you're saying, though, particularly your analogy of viewing money in the abstract sense versus what most of us (blk folk) do - value money INTRINSICALLY.

My question is....

how does one go about changing how they look at money? Because old habits die hard.

How do you control money in the abstract?



I appreciate you letting me know which aspects of this you need the most time to absorb so that I can be sure to make certain things as clear as possible. I realize that these concepts are not easy to grasp which is why I'm intentionally keeping what I say relatively basic compared to how I really want to present this information. I figured that the money creation part of this would be the most difficult for the average person to grasp so I was prepared to break that down further...However, since you pointed out the slight trouble you're having with the concept of dealing with money in the abstract I will deal with that a little.

The first question "how does one go about changing how they look at money" is key because this is the foundation by which you can begin to see things for what they really are. For starters you must realize that money itself is just an arbitrary means of exchange which is actually just the SUBSTITUTE for something that has value. In other words the paper currency that we are using now is supposed to be merely the REPRESENTATION of a valuable resource. For a time it was when it was based on a GOLD STANDARD that is when each dollar was redeemable for a certain unit of gold... this gave it a real world underlying value and also put a physical limit on the amount of dollars that could be printed. However, this is far from the case today every since and the Bretton Woods Agreement of 1944 which stated that foreign countries could still redeem their dollar reserves for gold was abolished by Nixon in 1971 the dollar has contained NO INTRINSIC VALUE. What's keeping dollars in circulation is merely the fact that today it is the worlds choice as a reserve currency...meaning for now countries are still willing to go along with this ponzi scheme due to convenience but this is not going to remain the case indefinitely in fact many countries such as China who own large amounts of U.S. dollar reserves are already hinting at moving to a new reserve currency away from the dollar...if this happens look out then the truth will be revealed which is that this currency is actually worthless...As the philosopher Voltaire once said... "paper money always returns to it's intrinsic value....ZERO"

This is what I was alluding to when I said that any form of reparations should not be denominated in a fiat currency like the U.S. dollar because at some point it will be worthless... Those who are intelligent Blacks among us would be wise to seek their own system whereby they could have their own currency backed by real value (such as gold) instead of being so dependent on yt's faltering system...which leads me to the answer to your second question "How do you control money in the abstract?" The answer to that as it relates to Blacks as a group is only by making preparations to have their own systems in place to control their own currency...similar to how other countries are increasingly looking for an alternative to the dollar as a reserve currency...I'll give you a chance to digest what I just said before I move on...let me know if you need further clarification.
quote:
Those who are intelligent Blacks among us would be wise to seek their own system whereby they could have their own currency backed by real value (such as gold) instead of being so dependent on yt's faltering system...which leads me to the answer to your second question "How do you control money in the abstract?" The answer to that as it relates to Blacks as a group is only by making preparations to have their own systems in place to control their own currency...similar to how other countries are increasingly looking for an alternative to the dollar as a reserve currency...I'll give you a chance to digest what I just said before I move on...let me know if you need further clarification.


^^^ This is a good idea. tfro I've heard other ppl discuss the purchase of gold and the diminishing US dollar.

Thank you for elaborating, I understand what you're saying and look forward to reading more.
Following up on the statement I made in Yemaya's "Detroit up for sale" thread when I said I would be posting the other parts of Dr. Claud Anderson's presentation "Vision Beyond The Dream" I am doing so now. This is a continuation of parts 1-6 that I posted in the T.R.E.S.O.B.A. thread....I meant to post it sooner but I didn't have time to look for all the parts... but now I noticed that all the parts have been uploaded which was not the case when last I posted it.

Now that I've viewed these parts I feel he has done a tremendous job here analyzing the true economic problems facing Blacks and laying out an economic blueprint for solutions. While I don't agree with everything Dr. Anderson has to say... I think he's the closest public figure out there who is addressing the REAL problems facing Black America. Overall, I am very impressed with his work and I look forward to contributing more to his think tank the Harvest Institute

So here is the rest of the presentation in it's entirety below. I hope you enjoy it and begin to discuss this subject more with other Black thinkers/scholars and your friends and family. Because Blacks are in desperate need of an alternate way of thinking and it's becoming even more urgent everyday.



PART 7

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g8NOkktmz4

PART 8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=680oDmneGIs

PART 9

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njClaGXdNNw


PART 10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYzUkoKG56A

PART 11

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpILGbaztho


PART 12

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSEvTKF1c_M

PART 13

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZN-7JrH7ro


PART 14

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSu8k88B-xQ

PART 15

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMT2NbeITvE
Thanks for the information, LieDecryptor. I had been thinking about this thread when I started that thread. Believe me the people who are buying up Detroit are looking at the very things I pointed out about future economic viability of the city and its location. They are moving on their own behalf to secure their financial futures.
quote:
Originally posted by Yemaya:
Thanks for the information, LieDecryptor. I had been thinking about this thread when I started that thread. Believe me the people who are buying up Detroit are looking at the very things I pointed out about future economic viability of the city and its location. They are moving on their own behalf to secure their financial futures.



No problem I'm not sure if you looked at all the parts that I posted yet, but if you did I hope you got something out of because he makes some very cogent points about blacks securing their own financial futures. Specifically, when he talks about Blacks getting into industries where we could have a competitive advantage like leather and how we could set up processing centers in Florida, New York and Pennsylvania. In addition manufacturing plants and tanneries in a place such as Haiti. This could give use a huge advantage over manufactures who opt to do their manufacturing in the far east for example since the labor market in Haiti is just as cost effective as a place like China plus the products could get to market much faster. For example in order for the asians to get their leather processed and shipped from Asia and on the market it takes them about 60 days...we would be able to do it in 3 days. In addition American Blacks and Haitians would be joint owners in the manufacturing plants and other infrastructures as well as on the retail and distribution side.


Which ever way someone views such ideas and how such strategies can assist Blacks in this country make no mistake about it... Blacks will increasingly need to seek such innovative ideas and start working together in order to survive the things to come.

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