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quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
Most unsubstantiated ancient holy texts are written so vauge, that support can be found for any agenda one might have. Take Christianity for example:

Do you really think what is taught in churches of today is the same as what was taught 50 years ago? Take issues such as Homosexuality, Interracial marriage, racism, (the bible was used to justify slavery of our people ya know) weather or not the stories in the bible are fact or fictitious allegory stories designed to make a point, (Adam and Eve, Noah's Ark, Tower of Babel, etc)...Religions change as well ya know


Actually, that can be said about any text, ancient or not. I guess it depends upon the goal you are going after when reading a text: are you looking at it objectively, considering all sides of the thing or skeptically, only coming from a limited ViewPoint?

MoreOver, the Bible did deal with issues such as these...and you have to remember that while many of the tenents were passed down by God, it was written by mere Men (and Women) who like to add their own two cents, not realizing how the money they may be throwing into the pot isn't worth much to a God who knows the full value of what they don't fully UnderStand.

People are Human and God knows that...so much so that you were allowed to learn from Man's arrogance and sense of EnTitleMent.

quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
....regarding Shayabuther's question "So let me ask you a question: How do you suppose we got from NeAndErthal to our present state of being, besides the age old argument that we "adapt to our surroundings"?"

As I said before, we are taught everything our parents knew, and we add to it: that's what separates us from the monkeys! This allows each generation to advance in knowlege and ability.


....good, I'm glad you said that. Now, where did our parents learn what they knew and do you agree that they may have added to it, allowing our "generation to advance in knowledge and ability"? And what about their parents? And theirs? And theirs?

If our parents passed stuff down to us and added to it...where do you think they mirrored those acts from?

Speaking of monkeys, if we can teach a monkey to do the things that humans do, since we have dominion over them, where do you think we got this ability?

Most likely a parent right...or SomeThing very close to one?

quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
...regarding ShayaButHer's comments "in order for the child to become "old enough and savvy enough" there must exist certain stimuli within their environment that will help that feral child mature." If a child's brain, mannerisms, behaviors, world view don't develop fully, how would they grow to be a mature adult who functions normally?"

"I don't think your "feral child" analogy is an adaquate one because humans are taught by those who gave birth to us, not a pack of wolves. Our parents provide stimuli that allows us to mature."


The "feral child" analogy is adequate in that all "feral" children are not raised by a pack of wolves; some feral children are just left for dead by humans or left to "raise" ThemSelves. Again, you need to do some ReSearch...I just told you that MSN did a recent story about finding another feral child.

...and this is why I don't look for fifty sites, books, stories and quotes for people AnyMore, because no matter what I put out there, if you are coming from the stance that you just want to argue the InFormation, I can tell you that the sky is falling and you can SEE that the sky is falling but if your InterPreTation of the sky is falling TranSlates into "well I can see it, but I still don't believe it", what was the purpose of pointing it out to you? All that EnSued is that I spent time I don't often have providing InFormation to you, InFormation that you did not want to benefit from, and we go round and round and round again, just like a broken record.

But reluctantly, this is for you and the rest of the forum: A Feral Child's Journey to Recovery (as featured on MSN)


quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
....responding to ShayaButHer's comments, "Again, you missed what I said. I never said that humans could not make it WithOut God. In fact, I said that society could function to a point WithOut God. HowEver, Man has already proven what will happen to Man, Animals, Plants and the Earth in general if we are left to our own devices."

"Really! Okay 2 questions:
To what point do you believe humans are able to function without God, and what have we proven will happen to Man, Animals, Plants and the Earth in general when left to our own devices.


A1: I already stated this previously in this thread and I said that humans can function to the point 'in which we can no longer answer our own questions that we must consider that there exists SomeThing grand OutSide of our selves; SomeThing that can answer the questions that have definite answers.'

Really think about that BeFore you ask me another question on that.

A2: If you are up to studying and studying deeply AND open to actually reading the Bible, you will find that God's face was hidden from the people shortly after Genesis (Genius Is) up until the time God decided to talk to the people through the Prophet Isaiah (I-Say-Uh). Why don't you check out what the people got ThemSelves into during that time and that might answer the question you asked SomeOne with ReGard to why people who claim to be Atheists can't be moral WithOut the PreSence of God.

You know the funny thing about the Bible (Bye Bull), is that while many of the events are literal, God, the UltiMate Spoken Word Artist, chose to speak to the people in ways that they can UnderStand...this is why so many "pastors" have a hay day with the Bible....because anybody reading it can decipher SomeThing if they just let their minds run with it.

This is why I cracked up over the mess behind 'Ebonics'....which in reality, is the Original Language. I thought to MySelf, "Man, people just don't know what they've got. They just don't UnderStand how close they are to TRUTH; all TRUTH"...and really, the Bible is just one of the reasons that I choose to write/type words the way that I do.

There is meaning, behind the meaning....true reflection behind the mirrors. Play on words is an UnderStateMent when one thinks about God (Dog), The UltiMate Black Power.

But read the Bible and other texts to find out for YourSelf what I am saying.


quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
....responding to ShayaButHer's comment, "Ah, now I see where we DisAgree. I don't believe that we are pointing to AnyThing invisible to ReSpect that SomeThing in and OutSide of OurSelves may, in fact, have more answers than we do."

Are you suggesting your concept of God is detectable by all humans?


Yes, I am suggesting that THE concept of God is DetectAble by all people, HowEver, God stated that only certain people will fully UnderStand that concept. I believe that is because while THE concept of God is detectable by all, all don't want to really see/UnderStand/SubMit to that concept....even when they see it.

quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
....responding to ShayaButHer's comments, "If you will, consider this: Many of us did not PERSONALLY SEE our Great, Great, Great GrandParents...yet that doesn't make their existence and contributions to our lives any less significant. We KNOW that they existed because we bear witness to the existence of our GrandParents, our Parents and our very selves. We BELIEVE in and honor their legacies because we ReCognize and ReSpect the lessons that have been passed down to us, from them.

If we can do that with Our Own, who we know to have existed because we are here, how much more reverance should we give to the Creator, who Created and lived in those in which we came from?"

We have proof our parents came before us, and our grandparents came before them; we may not have known those 5 or 10 generations down the line, but reason tells us that everyone who came before us had someone who came before them.

I don't think you can compare the concept of our ancesters that is built upon fact, to the concept of God that is built upon faith.


Why can't we compare it?

Like it or not, THE ConCept of God is not merely built upon faith. There is proof positive archaeological evidence/ancient uncoverings that Jesus DID walk the face of the Earth. Cities that were talked about in the Bible are being UnCovered left and right. And while many people use the Pharoahs/Queens/Mummys/Ancient ArtiFacts of Ancient Egypt to try to refute Christianity, all they do time and time again is just back up the things that God already said would happen. The PRESENT day and its happenings should be more than enough proof that the things God said existed did, as the things God said would take place are taking place.

.....and just like we KNOW that our Great GrandParents existed, we know that Jesus existed. The people who walked with Jesus TOLD SomeBody and/or wrote about it, just like the people who walked with your Great GrandParents told YOU and/or wrote about them....and if Jesus really existed, you can bet that there's a good chance that God exists as well.

If we can accept the stories regarding our Great GrandParents and their parents from others, even though we weren't there, why is it that we can't accept the stories regarding Jesus and God, other events and people in which we were not there?

You don't have to be a Jesus Freak to be able to UnderStand that that doesn't make sense.

quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
....responding to ShayaButHer's comments, "Actually, Kevin, that saying came from André Gide, a FrenchMan, an Atheist, pedophile and sexual abuser of young children...he was also bi-sexual, not homosexual, etc, etc, etc......."

"Not quite sure what point you are tryin to make but I am sure you will agree; even the most evil man on earth is still capable of telling the truth.


Yes, but isn't that why they are generally ReGarded as "the most evil man"? The fact that they have the ability to TELL the TRUTH, to SEE the TRUTH and to LIVE the TRUTH, but opt not to? And if they opt NOT to most of the time, how can you tell WHICH time they are actually telling the TRUTH?

Seems rather selective to me...and by the LifeStyle he lived, André Gide knew it, too. That was the point I was trying to make. THAT'S WHY HE TOLD YOU WHAT HE WAS when he said, "Believe those who seek the truth, doubt those who find it".

"Wisdom Is A Woman Speaking!"
quote:
There is proof positive archaeological evidence/ancient uncoverings that Jesus DID walk the face of the Earth.


Where?

quote:
And while many people use the Pharoahs/Queens/Mummys/Ancient ArtiFacts of Ancient Egypt to try to refute Christianity


Not really,

For many, it has nothing to do with 'god', but more to do with the 'authenticity', or lack thereof, of the religion, xianity, itself.

quote:
all they do time and time again is just back up the things that God already said would happen


What did 'god' say?
After reading so much of this thread, I am certain that the world with or without God is not even near a relevent question.

Religion, spiriuality, atheism, Monster Jesus (that is just funny to me) is all a very personal issue. The real issues begin (and this is a problem with both Christianity and Islam and atheism) is the forcing of personal views on other people.

The hard thing for evanglists is to live the life they are taught to by their personal-ocracy and to accept that other do not enjoy those same views.

I guess there is something to be accomplished by sitting and repeatedly celebrating the differences between yours and other folk proclivities, that sense of mental or moral superiority it gives you is good for the individualm but the world suffers as a collection of individuals.

Perhaps a more challenging and fruitful adventure, albeit a much more humble one, is to find the things you share and ignore the things you do not.

When I was a more hopeful person, I thought there was a mere 5 steps to a better worldm unfortuanately (or perhaps fortunately) I can only remember 4 of them.

To know
To accept
To tolerate
to appreciate

(I'd swear there was a step between tolerate and appreciate, but it could be somewhere else)

Then I used to think we needed to be aware of the things that make us different, but now I think we need to know as well the things that make us alike as well. But like I said, that was when I was hopeful. It is not that I am not hopeful now, I just am more accepting of the need to disagree.
quote:
Originally posted by Raptor:
Where?

.....For many, it has nothing to do with 'god', but more to do with the 'authenticity', or lack thereof, of the religion, xianity, itself.

....What did 'god' say?


A1: Do a search.
A2: Can't the same be said about any religion?
A3: They say, "If you don't know, you betta ask SomeBody!" Rappy, Ask God.

LOL...

"Wisdom Is A Woman Who Ain't Getting Sucked In!"
Shayabuther said:
quote:
"Actually, that can be said about any text, ancient or not. I guess it depends upon the goal you are going after when reading a text: are you looking at it objectively, considering all sides of the thing or skeptically, only coming from a limited ViewPoint?"
So are you agreeing with me that what is right and what is wrong to the Theist has a perpencity to change over time just as with the Atheist? If so, that is the point I was trying to make.
quote:
"....good, I'm glad you said that. Now, where did our parents learn what they knew and do you agree that they may have added to it, allowing our "generation to advance in knowledge and ability"? And what about their parents? And theirs? And theirs?

If our parents passed stuff down to us and added to it...where do you think they mirrored those acts from?

Speaking of monkeys, if we can teach a monkey to do the things that humans do, since we have dominion over them, where do you think we got this ability?

Most likely a parent right...or SomeThing very close to one?"
The answer is; we learn from those who gave birth to us. Now how far back do you wanna go? To the beginning of life? Does life have a beginning or has it always existed. These are questions we don't have the answers to, but just because we don't know all the answers doesn't mean we should assume Goddidit.
quote:
"A1: I already stated this previously in this thread and I said that humans can function to the point 'in which we can no longer answer our own questions "
We don't need to be able to answer all of our own questions in order to be able to function. "I don't know" Is a perfectly reasonable response for any question we don't have an answer for
quote:
"that we must consider that there exists SomeThing grand OutSide of our selves; SomeThing that can answer the questions that have definite answers."
No! Just because we don't know everything doesn't mean we should assume there is something bigger than us that does.
quote:
A2: If you are up to studying and studying deeply AND open to actually reading the Bible, you will find that God's face was hidden from the people shortly after Genesis (Genius Is) up until the time God decided to talk to the people through the Prophet Isaiah (I-Say-Uh). Why don't you check out what the people got ThemSelves into during that time and that might answer the question you asked SomeOne with ReGard to why people who claim to be Atheists can't be moral WithOut the PreSence of God."
Tell you what: why don't YOU read the bible, find the answer and let me know: What will happen to Humans, animals and the Earth if mankind is left to his own devices.
quote:
"Yes, I am suggesting that THE concept of God is DetectAble by all people, HowEver, God stated that only certain people will fully UnderStand that concept. I believe that is because while THE concept of God is detectable by all, all don't want to really see/UnderStand/SubMit to that concept....even when they see it."
If God were detectable by all people, science would have detected him a long time ago. That hasn't happened. Why do you suppose that is?
If God were detectable by all people, those who sought him and claim to experience him, will give a consistent account of who he is, what he expects of us and how we should respond to him. That isn't the case; everyone's account is different: Why do you suppose that is?
Let me guess.... Only you and those who think like you are honest enough to submit to the concept and experience God, everyone else whose concept of God contridicts your own; or those who can't detect God at all are dishonest and/or unwilling to submit to the concept and experience him.
quote:
"Like it or not, THE ConCept of God is not merely built upon faith. There is proof positive archaeological evidence/ancient uncoverings that Jesus DID walk the face of the Earth. Cities that were talked about in the Bible are being UnCovered left and right."

A bit of a leap don't cha think?
Just because the Mississippi river does exist, that doesn't proove that Tom Sawyer was an actual person.
Just because there may have been Jews in Egypt, doesn't mean they were slaves and some guy named Moses rescued them by parting the Red Sea
Just because some guy named Jesus may have existed, doesn't mean he preformed acts outside the laws of nature.
Just because many of the claims of the Bible were based upon actual places, doesn't mean all the astronomical claims of the bible are true.
quote:
"If we can accept the stories regarding our Great GrandParents and their parents from others, even though we weren't there, why is it that we can't accept the stories regarding Jesus and God, other events and people in which we were not there?

You don't have to be a Jesus Freak to be able to UnderStand that that doesn't make sense."

The claims of my Great Grand parents DO make sense, but the story of Jesus does not!
I believe it was Mark Twain who said:
A foolish man's account of a wise mans words are NEVER accurate because the fool is forced to translate what he hears into something he can actually understand.
In otherwords, words of wisdom should come from the source; never 2nd hand information.

I don't mean to go on a diatribe here, BUT:
With Jesus, we are supposed to believe God came to earth, lived here for 30 years and didn't write anything down; he didn't even ask any of his followers to write down any of his words.
Then half a century after he was excuted, various people began to write stuff about him from memory. How did they get some of this information? Who eavesdropped on the private conversation Jesus had with the man who came to him in the middle of the night and decided to write it down decades later?
Who witnessed the agony of Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemany? All his disciples were asleep, so who heard his prayer then told someone who wrote about it decades later?

So 50 -150 years after Jesus was excuted various people began to write about him, then over a thousand years later, a bunch of racist white men with personal agenda's decided which books should be used for the bible, and which ones should be discarded, and we are supposed to believe this is the word actual of God? Sounds like 2nd hand information to me; why didn't Jesus write the bible when he was on Earth? Nobody would have dared tamper with it had that happened. Words of wisdom should come from the source; (excuse my rant)

As far as what Andre Gide said: Just because I agree with one point he made doesn't mean I condone his behavior. (nice try though)

Peace
Kevin
PS This is one hellava sparing session you are giving me my friend
quote:
Originally posted by Raptor:
quote:
Originally posted by ShayaButHer:
A1: Do a search.
A2: Can't the same be said about any religion?
A3: They say, "If you don't know, you betta ask SomeBody!" Rappy, Ask God.

LOL...


Riiiiight

quote:
"Wisdom Is A Woman Who Ain't Getting Sucked In!"

...Yet you used the "Wisdom" to let me know that much, huh?
Roll Eyes


Awwww....boo boo! Don't cry....it'll be alright.

ther

LOL!

"Wisdom Is A Woman Teasing!"
quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
So are you agreeing with me that what is right and what is wrong to the Theist has a perpencity to change over time just as with the Atheist? If so, that is the point I was trying to make.


That depends upon who and/or what the Theist or Atheist is basing their belief system upon. Naturally, if it's placed where it should be in the very beginning, the change will be minute.....even with our ability to evolve.

Also, wouldn't we agree that one doesn't have to "evolve" from SomeThing that is already copasetic to begin with?

quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
...we learn from those who gave birth to us. Now how far back do you wanna go? To the beginning of life? Does life have a beginning or has it always existed. These are questions we don't have the answers to, but just because we don't know all the answers doesn't mean we should assume Goddidit.


Kevin, do you have any children?

quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
We don't need to be able to answer all of our own questions in order to be able to function. "I don't know" Is a perfectly reasonable response for any question we don't have an answer for


I agree with that completely....I've only added that just because we "don't know" yet does not mean that there isn't a valid and concrete answer in which we will be ReSponsible for knowing at some point in time.

If I go to another state or another country and "do what I do" without trying to think about the laws and practices that are already in place for that new state or country, the excuse of "I didn't know" won't fly when I come before a judge, if I unknowingly break a law in that new state or country. I will still be responsible for my actions and knowing what is and is not acceptable in that country.

Leniency may be granted upon me, but how many times have you seen leniency practiced for some new resident or American who "didn't know" any better?

quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
No! Just because we don't know everything doesn't mean we should assume there is something bigger than us that does.


I didn't say that we should assume....I said that we should be open to "considering" the possibility. To blatantly say that, "I don't believe this is possible" without regard to the very real fact that it could be possible is a serious lesson in futility. Anything is possible....and until you or I make a UniVerse on our own, we should keep our minds open to the possibility that SomeThing in and OutSide of OurSelves could have done what we have yet to do.

quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
Tell you what: why don't YOU read the bible, find the answer and let me know: What will happen to Humans, animals and the Earth if mankind is left to his own devices.


LOL...No darlin...I'm not your mother; nor am I your KinderCare teacher. It is up to YOU to seek out those answers for YourSelf, if you are going to ask such questions. I can't do your work for you.

quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
If God were detectable by all people, science would have detected him a long time ago. That hasn't happened. Why do you suppose that is?


Ummmm...That's not really fair to Science, as Science has proven time and time again that it is limited....and those who are TruthFul in Science have had the "balls" to admit it...this is what keeps me a ReSpector of Science and all that it holds, because I truly believe in my heart of hearts that God gave us Science as a "proof" of a Higher Power, although God did not have to do that. That was for our own benefit.

quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
If God were detectable by all people, those who sought him and claim to experience him, will give a consistent account of who he is, what he expects of us and how we should respond to him. That isn't the case; everyone's account is different: Why do you suppose that is?


I think you answered your own question: Everyone's account is different, which should speak to the diversity of God. It'd be pretty boring if God were just one way...I mean really, can you imagine if God were like any one of the forum members ALL OF THE TIME???

Dang man, I'd cry for real!

quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
Let me guess.... Only you and those who think like you are honest enough to submit to the concept and experience God, everyone else whose concept of God contridicts your own; or those who can't detect God at all are dishonest and/or unwilling to submit to the concept and experience him.


Ummm....no. Actually I've been told not to judge and I think that only those who don't believe like I do will decide if they are "open" to submitting to the concept and experience of God. God meets each person where they are at.

quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
A bit of a leap don't cha think? Just because the Mississippi river does exist, that doesn't proove that Tom Sawyer was an actual person.
Just because there may have been Jews in Egypt, doesn't mean they were slaves and some guy named Moses rescued them by parting the Red Sea
Just because some guy named Jesus may have existed, doesn't mean he preformed acts outside the laws of nature. Just because many of the claims of the Bible were based upon actual places, doesn't mean all the astronomical claims of the bible are true.


.....so knowing this, just because you haven't "felt" or "experienced" or "believed" that God exists, doesn't mean that God's existence isn't True.

Can you at least meet me halfway on that?

quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
The claims of my Great Grand parents DO make sense, but the story of Jesus does not!
I believe it was Mark Twain who said:
A foolish man's account of a wise mans words are NEVER accurate because the fool is forced to translate what he hears into something he can actually understand.

In otherwords, words of wisdom should come from the source; never 2nd hand information.

I don't mean to go on a diatribe here, BUT:
With Jesus, we are supposed to believe God came to earth, lived here for 30 years and didn't write anything down; he didn't even ask any of his followers to write down any of his words.

Then half a century after he was excuted, various people began to write stuff about him from memory. How did they get some of this information? Who eavesdropped on the private conversation Jesus had with the man who came to him in the middle of the night and decided to write it down decades later?

Who witnessed the agony of Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemany? All his disciples were asleep, so who heard his prayer then told someone who wrote about it decades later?

So 50 -150 years after Jesus was excuted various people began to write about him, then over a thousand years later, a bunch of racist white men with personal agenda's decided which books should be used for the bible, and which ones should be discarded, and we are supposed to believe this is the word actual of God? Sounds like 2nd hand information to me; why didn't Jesus write the bible when he was on Earth? Nobody would have dared tamper with it had that happened. Words of wisdom should come from the source; (excuse my rant)


Dude, no matter how you personally feel about the Bible, you have to be open to reading the Bible and the other books that were forced out of the Bible to be able to UnderStand that those Books were actual writings from people who walked with Jesus. WE, meaning Black People, walked with Jesus, A Black Man!

While a number has been done on Black People with ReGard to history, what White People did in the big picture of it all, is immaterial to me because the Truth comes out regardless of who will WhiteWash it.

We are STILL ReSponsible for knowing the full value of what others would try to take from Us....and the fact that we are still standing is more than a testament to the fact that WE survive, no matter what.

This is why I don't UnderStand, for the life of me, how Black People, the ORIGINAL PEOPLE, would subscribe to the notion that God DOES NOT exist. We are here; we exist...and God is in Us, which means that God exists!

Man, if you don't know where we've been, how in the world will you be able to help us get to where we need to go?

It isn't God's fault that Man can be very stupid at times. Your issues are with Man and what Man has done to his fellow Man. Just because you didn't "see" God step in, does not mean that God, has not been there/is not there, working.

quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
As far as what Andre Gide said: Just because I agree with one point he made doesn't mean I condone his behavior. (nice try though)


I didn't say that you condone his behavior...I said character often determines what would come out of our mouths. Maybe Gide had issues with his own life, so much so, that he took that out on God...who gave him the very breath he breathed right down to the last day. If you ask me, God could have wiped out a whole bunch of people who didn't/don't believe, a long time ago, but God didn't/hasn't...which should speak to God's patient nature.

Gide had his own choices to make; it isn't God's fault what he chose for HimSelf. Just because he didn't like his Truth, doesn't mean that EveryOne else should hide from it.

quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
PS This is one hellava sparing session you are giving me my friend


Really? It doesn't seem like all that much. I've learned to take a lot of "emotion" out of this topic, as I used to bust a vein trying to get some to UnderStand...which just isn't necessary. Knowing God is a peaceful endeavor; not one mired in constant ConFlict and CondemNation. I wish more people knew that...it would go a long way to ease a lot of stress.

"Wisdom Is A Calm Woman!"
Shayabuther replies:
quote:
"That depends upon who and/or what the Theist or Atheist is basing their belief system upon. Naturally, if it's placed where it should be in the very beginning, the change will be minute.....even with our ability to evolve.

Also, wouldn't we agree that one doesn't have to "evolve" from SomeThing that is already copasetic to begin with?"

You appear to have a different opinion on this matter than Whirling Moat; the person I was refering to when I made the point.
quote:
"Kevin, do you have any children?"

What does this have to do with the point I made?
quote:
"I agree with that completely....I've only added that just because we "don't know" yet does not mean that there isn't a valid and concrete answer in which we will be ReSponsible for knowing at some point in time."
If you wish to make that assumption; that's fine. Just recognize some of us will not be making that assumption.
quote:
"If I go to another state or another country and "do what I do" without trying to think about the laws and practices that are already in place for that new state or country, the excuse of "I didn't know" won't fly when I come before a judge, if I unknowingly break a law in that new state or country. I will still be responsible for my actions and knowing what is and is not acceptable in that country.

Leniency may be granted upon me, but how many times have you seen leniency practiced for some new resident or American who "didn't know" any better?"
If I go to another country and read up on the laws, I will know that everybody who reads those laws will agree for the most part on what is legal and what is not. The same can't be said for theism.
quote:
"I didn't say that we should assume....I said that we should be open to "considering" the possibility. To blatantly say that, "I don't believe this is possible" without regard to the very real fact that it could be possible is a serious lesson in futility. Anything is possible...."
If you wanna make that "leap" kool! I ain't tryin ta take that away from ya. As for myself, I will become open to such a possibility when I see EVIDENCE of such a possibility.
quote:
"LOL...No darlin...I'm not your mother; nor am I your KinderCare teacher. It is up to YOU to seek out those answers for YourSelf, if you are going to ask such questions. I can't do your work for you."
Whaatt!! YOU were the one who made the claim that something bad would happen to animals, and Earth if mankind is left to his own devices, I disagree with that statement. If you gonna make such a statement, back it up!
quote:
"Ummmm...That's not really fair to Science, as Science has proven time and time again that it is limited...."
I think you've gotten it backwards my friend; Science has never claimed to know all the answers, that's what theists do. Theists claim their invisible God knows everything and they have access to their invisible God
quote:
"I truly believe in my heart of hearts that God gave us Science as a "proof" of a Higher Power, although God did not have to do that. That was for our own benefit."

Maybe your God should have given us something else cause science doesn't even acknowlege the existence of God.
quote:
"I think you answered your own question: Everyone's account is different, which should speak to the diversity of God."
Diversity does not equal giving everybody a different message and allowing each of them to believe only they have the truth; that's called deception.
quote:
".....so knowing this, just because you haven't "felt" or "experienced" or "believed" that God exists, doesn't mean that God's existence isn't True.

Can you at least meet me halfway on that?"
I agree! But as I said before, I will become open to such a possibility when I see evidence of such a possibility.
quote:
"Dude, no matter how you personally feel about the Bible, you have to be open to reading the Bible and the other books that were forced out of the Bible to be able to UnderStand that those Books were actual writings from people who walked with Jesus. WE, meaning Black People, walked with Jesus, A Black Man!

While a number has been done on Black People with ReGard to history, what White People did in the big picture of it all, is immaterial to me because the Truth comes out regardless of who will WhiteWash it.

We are STILL ReSponsible for knowing the full value of what others would try to take from Us....and the fact that we are still standing is more than a testament to the fact that WE survive, no matter what.

This is why I don't UnderStand, for the life of me, how Black People, the ORIGINAL PEOPLE, would subscribe to the notion that God DOES NOT exist. We are here; we exist...and God is in Us, which means that God exists!

Man, if you don't know where we've been, how in the world will you be able to help us get to where we need to go?

It isn't God's fault that Man can be very stupid at times. Your issues are with Man and what Man has done to his fellow Man. Just because you didn't "see" God step in, does not mean that God, has not been there/is not there, working."
I noticed you neglected to respond to the points I made, but cool! If you wanna believe your God is invisible and your Jesus is black, and that black people have Jesus within them, that's fine! I ain't trying to take that away from ya.
I'm was just making the point that the evidence that you say supports the existence of your Jesus and God isn't the same as the evidence that supports the existence of my ancestors.
The "rant" I went on was just an attempt to articulate exactly why the concept of your invisible God and your black Jesus doesn't make sense to me.

Keviin
quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
You appear to have a different opinion on this matter than Whirling Moat; the person I was refering to when I made the point.


Maybe...we all have different oppinions regarding the Creator.

quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122....when asked by ShayaButHer if he had any children:
What does this have to do with the point I made?


I asked if you had children because, believe it or not, going through the process of having, caring for and raising a child tends to give people another PerSpective ReGarding the Creator. As you stated, "we learn from those who gave birth to us."

But I can get into that more later.

quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:

[QUOTE]If you wish to make that assumption; that's fine. Just recognize some of us will not be making that assumption.


I don't think that is an assumption. Adults are keen to the fact that we are often responsible for knowing the things we need to know in order to function and function fully within our society.

But if you can't get with that ideal, that is your right.

quote:
If I go to another country and read up on the laws, I will know that everybody who reads those laws will agree for the most part on what is legal and what is not. The same can't be said for theism.


Why not?

Even though we are not subject to the "Old Law" in the Bible, we are expected to act with a modicum of decency, if not for God, at least for our fellow human beings? Most of the "tenents" that we are to live by "are obvious" and really most people seem to be agreement with the principles that state we should not kill, steal, cheat or lie on each other. Most of us also agree that we should not secretly envy and plot to take what our neighbor has...and the wealthiest and/or greediest/most financially criminal, in America are learning a huge lesson on this right now, as our economy and the economies of the rest of the world, flatline, right?

Most people have no problem taking a day of rest and in fact, several "days" of rest are built into our current working system.....and personally, working as hard as I do, I'm GRATEFUL for some time to myself when I get it.

Most people don't have a problem keeping SomeOne's name straight, given that they generally like others to keep theirs straight. If you say your name is Kevin, but someone attempts to call you Tevin all the time, knowing they are DisRespecting you, how would you feel about that?

Most people would not bow down to their TV or treadmill in observance of what they should do daily or in full appreciation of what good is in their life. I mean dang, I like my Total Gym, but I'm not about to pray to it each day just because I'm grateful that the machine can be used to help me stay in shape.

MoreOver, most people would not want to worship God after God after God wouldn't you agree? Could you imagine what the world would be like if we had to be accountable to 10 different spiritual entities daily??? Heck man, many are having trouble reconciling the fact that there is even one God, let alone 10!

Finally, most people would agree that ReSpecting our Mother's and Father's was important.

Loving people by ReSpecting these principles and in turn loving God (our parent) who set down these principles, does not seem like a daunting task.

quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
If you wanna make that "leap" kool! I ain't tryin ta take that away from ya. As for myself, I will become open to such a possibility when I see EVIDENCE of such a possibility.


Dude, aren't you breathing right now? The last I checked, you weren't floating towards the sky were you? Tell me if I'm wrong, but I didn't see any of us being burned up by the hot sun as it cut the earth like a razor today. No moon fell on us did it? You been sucked into the earth today?

While you are a collection of scientific phenomena, the science had to come from SomeWhere...and for you to be living, walking, talking, touching, etc...that is not small feat! You are a living, walking science exhibition...YOU are all the evidence you need!

quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
Whaatt!! YOU were the one who made the claim that something bad would happen to animals, and Earth if mankind is left to his own devices, I disagree with that statement. If you gonna make such a statement, back it up!


Ummmm...two words: Discovery Channel.

Oh wait....make that three as I had "History" to the list.

quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
I think you've gotten it backwards my friend; Science has never claimed to know all the answers, that's what theists do. Theists claim their invisible God knows everything and they have access to their invisible God


No, I don't have it BackWards at all. I don't know what theists you've been around, but no, most of us who believe in God, DO NOT believe that we have all of the answers. In fact, the very ideal that you ReCognize that theists believe that it is God who has the answers, shows that you KNOW that theists don't have all of the answers, as much as you will put that claim upon them. As far as the claim that believers have access to God, yes, that is true. AnyBody who believes in God, believes what God says and attempts to live in accordance with God's principles (which were laid out previously in this thread), has access to God.

quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
Maybe your God should have given us something else cause science doesn't even acknowlege the existence of God.


You say, "your God" as if God solely belonged to me. But God is "your God" too; whether or not you acknowledge that fact is up to you. Again, you can DisOwn God, that doesn't mean that God does not exist. MoreOver, Science does acknowledge the existence: while Science can explain how things happen within our world, Science has yet to form it's own planet....it's own UniVerse.

So then it falls in line with the adage: If you can't beat Him...join Him.

LOL...

quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
Diversity does not equal giving everybody a different message and allowing each of them to believe only they have the truth; that's called deception.


....and if God did this, okay. But God did not do this. It is only Man who takes the action of believing that only "he" has the Truth, and this is the reason why you see so many churches today, versus one large world community of people who follow the general principles that God set down (again, principles that I've described in this post) ....so if AnyBody is deceptive, it would be Man.

quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
I agree! But as I said before, I will become open to such a possibility when I see evidence of such a possibility.


Okay. That's fair enough, although belief is having faith in what you don't necessarily see. But even knowing that people would have a problem with that, God gave you proof: LOOK AT YOURSELF. LOOK AT THE WORLD. While Humans have been dabbling in cloning, a clone is still a copy (many of which that have been sick, deformed or just hideous to boot)....and while Humans are dabbling with "creating babies made to order", we have yet to see the full ramifications of pursuing such an act.

....and we haven't even begun to try to build a working UniVerse, that exists OutSide of our own. Heck, we can't even definitively "calculate" the exact size of the current UniVerse we are in.

EverDay, Science is discovering "new" InFormation about the state of our World and what's in it.

quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
I noticed you neglected to respond to the points I made, but cool! If you wanna believe your God is invisible and your Jesus is black, and that black people have Jesus within them, that's fine! I ain't trying to take that away from ya.

I'm was just making the point that the evidence that you say supports the existence of your Jesus and God isn't the same as the evidence that supports the existence of my ancestors.
The "rant" I went on was just an attempt to articulate exactly why the concept of your invisible God and your black Jesus doesn't make sense to me.


First, what points did I neglect to respond to?
Second, what evidence do you have that suggest that our ancestors are not direct decendants from Jesus and God?

I mean really, if Black People are going to claim that we are the Original People, wouldn't that warrant that we are direct decendants of God, given that we did not make OurSelves.

I'm sorry, but I refuse to believe that we were just some random "MisTake" of the UniVerse.

"Wisdom Is A Woman GrateFul To Be Of The Creator (and not random chance)!"
Shayabuther:
"
quote:
I asked if you had children because, believe it or not, going through the process of having, caring for and raising a child tends to give people another PerSpective ReGarding the Creator. "
I've heard that one before, but for the record; I have no children, but there are plenty of Atheists who do.
The perspective only changes for those who already believe in a creator.
I've also heard that if I noticed the details of a butterfly, or knew of the complexities of a hunan eye, that would cause me to believe in a creator as well. Again; that stuff only works for those who are looking for conformation of their beliefs. It's not that I don't appreciate the wonders of nature, it's just that I don't point to your idea of God while admiring it.

When I said: If I go to another country and read up on the laws, I will know that everybody who reads those laws will agree for the most part on what is legal and what is not. The same can't be said for theism.
quote:
Shayabuther replied: Why not?
When you consider how many religions exist, and how many denominations and sects exist in each of those religions, it is obvious that there is a whole lotta disagreement when it comes to theism.
As far as the 10 Commandments, only about half of them are necessary outside of your religion; all that stuff about "remembering the sabbath" , having no other Gods, makin graven images, etc. those rules only apply to those who worship your God. BTW there are other religions who have a list of rules as well that IMO are just as credible.
quote:
"Dude, aren't you breathing right now? The last I checked, you weren't floating towards the sky were you? Tell me if I'm wrong, but I didn't see any of us being burned up by the hot sun as it cut the earth like a razor today. No moon fell on us did it? You been sucked into the earth today?"

That doesn't mean your idea of God is responsible.
quote:
"While you are a collection of scientific phenomena, the science had to come from SomeWhere..."
How do you know? Maybe this scientific phenomena you speak of has always existed in one form or another; If your God doesn't need a beginning, maybe matter doesn't either.
quote:
When I said: Whaatt!! YOU were the one who made the claim that something bad would happen to animals, and Earth if mankind is left to his own devices, I disagree with that statement. If you gonna make such a statement, back it up!

quote:
Shaya replied: Ummmm...two words: Discovery Channel.

Oh wait....make that three as I had "History" to the list.
If you had an answer, you would have given it by now. Your argument fails.
quote:
"Originally posted by kevin1122:
I think you've gotten it backwards my friend; Science has never claimed to know all the answers, that's what theists do. Theists claim their invisible God knows everything and they have access to their invisible God"
quote:
Shaya replied: No, I don't have it BackWards at all. I don't know what theists you've been around, but no, most of us who believe in God, DO NOT believe that we have all of the answers. In fact, the very ideal that you ReCognize that theists believe that it is God who has the answers, shows that you KNOW that theists don't have all of the answers, as much as you will put that claim upon them. As far as the claim that believers have access to God, yes, that is true. AnyBody who believes in God, believes what God says and attempts to live in accordance with God's principles (which were laid out previously in this thread), has access to God.

You've just admitted God knows everything, and theists have access to God. You've just made my point; my friend.
quote:
"You say, "your God" as if God solely belonged to me. But God is "your God" too; whether or not you acknowledge that fact is up to you."

The reason I say "your God" or "your concept of God" is because I recognize that there are (my opinion) other imaginary Gods that people worship, just like yours.
When I make a point about your God, it might not apply to those who worship Vinishu, Dionysus, Allah, Obatala, Osirus or the other countless number of Gods that you are just as atheistic towards as I am of your own.
quote:
"while Science can explain how things happen within our world, Science has yet to form it's own planet....it's own UniVerse."
Whaat??? The Universe is defined as "all that exists" It's not like there are a whole bunch of universes out there; don't know where you are going with that one.
quote:
"Originally posted by kevin1122:
Diversity does not equal giving everybody a different message and allowing each of them to believe only they have the truth; that's called deception."

quote:
"Shaya replies:....and if God did this, okay. But God did not do this. It is only Man who takes the action of believing that only "he" has the Truth, and this is the reason why you see so many churches today, versus one large world community of people who follow the general principles that God set down (again, principles that I've described in this post) ....so if AnyBody is deceptive, it would be Man.

So if something goes bad, it's either the devil's or man's falt, if something goes good, it's the wonderful work of God right??? Dang girlfriend; you cut your God waaay too much slack.

The reason each man thinks he has the truth is because all the ancient holy texts (yours included) claim to be the truth! They can't all be right ya know; somebody's lyin' I think they all are.
quote:
"Originally posted by kevin1122:
I noticed you neglected to respond to the points I made, but cool! If you wanna believe your God is invisible and your Jesus is black, and that black people have Jesus within them, that's fine! I ain't trying to take that away from ya.

I'm was just making the point that the evidence that you say supports the existence of your Jesus and God isn't the same as the evidence that supports the existence of my ancestors.
The "rant" I went on was just an attempt to articulate exactly why the concept of your invisible God and your black Jesus doesn't make sense to me."

quote:
Shayabuther replies: First, what points did I neglect to respond to?

The "rant" I went on; you know the stuff about Jesus never writing anything down, things Jesus did in private somehow getting into the bible, 2nd hand information, etc.
quote:
"Second, what evidence do you have that suggest that our ancestors are not direct decendants from Jesus and God?"
The same evidence that I (or you) have that suggests that our ancestors are not direct decendants of Bugs Bunny or any other fictional character that you can think of.... None!
quote:
"I mean really, if Black People are going to claim that we are the Original People, wouldn't that warrant that we are direct decendants of God, given that we did not make OurSelves"

I suspect the same Black People who claim that we are the Origional People are the same ones who believe in your concept of God. You talkin' to the wrong brotha on that one dear

Kevin
quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
I've heard that one before....I've also heard that if I noticed the details of a butterfly, or knew of the complexities of a hunan eye, that would cause me to believe in a creator as well. Again; that stuff only works for those who are looking for conformation of their beliefs......


I don't think they are looking for confirmation of their belief given that the whole premise of "faith" is being sure about what is UnSeen. Being able to "see" representations of what is UnSeen is just icing on the cake.

quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
When you consider how many religions exist, and how many denominations and sects exist in each of those religions, it is obvious that there is a whole lotta disagreement when it comes to theism.

As far as the 10 Commandments, only about half of them are necessary outside of your religion; all that stuff about "remembering the sabbath" , having no other Gods, makin graven images, etc. those rules only apply to those who worship your God. BTW there are other religions who have a list of rules as well that IMO are just as credible.


Yes, this is true...and wouldn't you agree that while there are clear differences in the religions, most of them have UniVersal themes regarding how to live and treat others respectably?

Again, respecting one's self, others and a "higher power" are not hard principles for most people to get with, given that the overall/personal benefits far outweight any risks/limitations.

quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
That doesn't mean your idea of God is responsible.


....and would you not also admit that because Science hasn't found all of the answers, that doesn't mean that "my idea of God" ISN'T responsible?

quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122 responding to ShayaButHer's submission "While you are a collection of scientific phenomena, the science had to come from SomeWhere...":

How do you know? Maybe this scientific phenomena you speak of has always existed in one form or another; If your God doesn't need a beginning, maybe matter doesn't either.


EveryThing comes from SomeThing, at least by our Human UnderStanding...and that INCLUDES God. I never said that God doesn't have a beginning. What I did say, is that I would be willing to be patient until we were given a higher UnderStanding surrounding the conception of God, among other things. I also said that I don't mind SubMitting to a source that apparantly knows more than I do, given that I have not created a UniVerse....and then I said that if I never received those answers, I would be content with that given that it is up to God to reveal that when God chooses to.

quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
If you had an answer, you would have given it by now. Your argument fails.


My argument does not fail just because I don't have time to give a running synopsis of history as it currently stands. You asked a question...one in which you already know the answer to...and if you don't, you have the means to find out. If the current history as it stands is not good enough for you to see how humans running rampant have all but destroyed the earth and the plants, animals and other humans in it, what can I do for you? Again, I can't hold your hand.

I can only answer any reasonable request and it is not reasonable to ask me to recount all of history to your satisfaction, given that even if I did, you still would not be satisfied. You would not be because as you already asserted, you don't believe in "my God" and what that God did/can/and will do.

At least if you were willing to concede that SOMETHING in and OutSide of OurSelves existed, it could be worked with. But you are refusing even that notion.

quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
You've just admitted God knows everything, and theists have access to God. You've just made my point; my friend.


No, I did not make your point. Your point is that theists claim to know EveryThing. My point is that NO, GOD knows EveryThing. Just because theists have access to God does not mean that we know EveryThing. We UnderStand certain things only to the point where our limited KnowLedge will get us so far. Having access to God is just that: access.

It's just like a library: a trove of buried treasure, although it is not limited by the "value" of that treasure. While there are books in that library that will tell me almost EveryThing I may want to know in life, one can't possibly read all of the books in the entire library...an attempt can be made and I can read a whole lot, learning a whole lot, but I will never know EveryThing until such time as I make it my goal to read every last book in the library.....which is an impossible task when you consider how many new books get added to the library daily.

....it is an UnLimited supply of KnowLedge....and the possibilities are EndLess.

(This is why I loved working in a library...it provides peace, solitude, and UnEnding possibilities...at least within the library's working hours....LOL).

God, to me, is UnEnding. LOADS of variety there.

quote:
"Originally posted by kevin1122:
The reason I say "your God" or "your concept of God" is because I recognize that there are (my opinion) other imaginary Gods that people worship, just like yours.
When I make a point about your God, it might not apply to those who worship Vinishu, Dionysus, Allah, Obatala, Osirus or the other countless number of Gods that you are just as atheistic towards as I am of your own.


Who said I was "atheistic" towards those concepts of God? God contended that God did not care what name one attributed to God, as long as one acknowledged that God did exist and as long as one BELIEVED God.

quote:
"Originally posted by kevin1122:
Whaat??? The Universe is defined as "all that exists" It's not like there are a whole bunch of universes out there; don't know where you are going with that one.


It is clear that you did not look at the link I provided as it talked about the concept of multiple UniVerses, a question of possibility that even those in the scientific world have raised.

quote:
"Originally posted by kevin1122:
So if something goes bad, it's either the devil's or man's falt, if something goes good, it's the wonderful work of God right??? Dang girlfriend; you cut your God waaay too much slack.


Yes, that's EXACTLY how it works. I can't cut the Creator AnyThing, as the Creator made the knife. The Creator made the cookie cutter; you have to take any issues about that up with the Creator.

quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
The reason each man thinks he has the truth is because all the ancient holy texts (yours included) claim to be the truth! They can't all be right ya know; somebody's lyin' I think they all are.


....and we differ here, given that I tend to believe that there is some Truth to all of the ancient texts.

quote:
Originally posted by kevin1122:
The "rant" I went on; you know the stuff about Jesus never writing anything down, things Jesus did in private somehow getting into the bible, 2nd hand information, etc.


I am of the camp that believes that Jesus DID write things down...and I believe that those writings were hidden or destroyed, what have you, just like the attempts to destroy records and artifacts of ancient Egypt and AnyThing else that resembles African people. I believe Jesus did because I don't know AnyBody who goes through life WithOut recording SOMETHING....especially as it ReLates to HuMans who tend to need "proof" of EveryThing.

As far as some of the things Jesus did in "private" being recorded in the Bible, the Bible is full of examples of some of the things Jesus did in private, including leaving the stress of people to go off by HimSelf when that time was sorely needed.

Again, you just have to pick up the Bible and read.

quote:
"Originally posted by kevin1122:
The same evidence that I (or you) have that suggests that our ancestors are not direct decendants of Bugs Bunny or any other fictional character that you can think of.... None!


Okay then...if you KNOW that, why on earth would you ever take the fallacious road of completely doubting, when there is the possibility that God exists? What would you do if your physical body died right now only for your spiritual body to come to the realization that a God DOES exist...and that you WILL be held AccountAble for what you did while in your physical body?

Wouldn't it be a wise course of action to live in AccorDance to a standard that won't get you into any spiritual trouble, but instead, seek to make you a better Human being, while possibly PreParing you to be a phenomenal spiritual being?

I'd rather be safe than sorry, is all I'm saying.

quote:
"Originally posted by kevin1122:
I suspect the same Black People who claim that we are the Origional People are the same ones who believe in your concept of God. You talkin' to the wrong brotha on that one dear


...and that is what makes me laugh. Here's why: If you are the Original People, why would you not want to come from the Best? Why on earth would you ever shy away from that which makes you great?

To say that we did not come from God gives rise to all of the ignorant claims that Black People are accidents....which is hilarious to me given that EveryBody else came from Us. If Black People, who are the first people, are accidents, what does that make EveryBody else?

I'm sorry, but I'd rather be born of those things that be SuperNatural rather than those that are UnNatural.

"Wisdom Is A Phenomenal Woman!"
Shayabuther:
quote:
"and wouldn't you agree that while there are clear differences in the religions, most of them have UniVersal themes regarding how to live and treat others respectably?"

Don't steal, don't kill, treat others the way you wanna be treated, thats the easy stuff; it's easy to agree with that! I'm talking about stuff like, should you pray towards Mecca, or should you pray to Jesus. As they say, the devil is in the details.

Muslims believe it is wrong to worship a man as God: Christians believe you should worship Jesus as God, and that's just one of many differences between Christianity and Islam! when you look at the rules of all the other religions, the contridictions are endless.
quote:
"would you not also admit that because Science hasn't found all of the answers, that doesn't mean that "my idea of God" ISN'T responsible?"
True! But the list of who I can deem responsible are endless. I'd just rather admit; I don't know.
quote:
"At least if you were willing to concede that SOMETHING in and OutSide of OurSelves existed, it could be worked with. But you are refusing even that notion."
I never said that! I am simply saying if something exists outside of ourselves (whatever that means) I wouldn't consider it a God
quote:
"No, I did not make your point. Your point is that theists claim to know EveryThing."
My exact words were "Theists claim their invisible God knows everything and they have access to their invisible God"
Now if your God knows all the answers but refuses to share them with you, you ain't no better off than those of us who depend upon the limited knowledge of science for answers.
quote:
"Who said I was "atheistic" towards those concepts of God? God contended that God did not care what name one attributed to God, as long as one acknowledged that God did exist and as long as one BELIEVED God."
If you are going to BELIEVE God, which of his words are you gonna believe? The words attributed to Jesus? Vinishu? Allah? Braham? Dionysus? You can't believe them all because what they say contridicts each other.
quote:
"....and we differ here, given that I tend to believe that there is some Truth to all of the ancient texts."
Actually I share that opinion as well; I just don't buy into all the "astronomical claims" of these Holy Texts.
quote:
"I am of the camp that believes that Jesus DID write things down...and I believe that those writings were hidden or destroyed,"
When I said "wrote anything down" I ment written down in the Bible.
quote:
"Okay then...if you KNOW that, why on earth would you ever take the fallacious road of completely doubting, when there is the possibility that God exists? What would you do if your physical body died right now only for your spiritual body to come to the realization that a God DOES exist...and that you WILL be held AccountAble for what you did while in your physical body?

Wouldn't it be a wise course of action to live in AccorDance to a standard that won't get you into any spiritual trouble,"
I will put my ethics and my morals up against anybody's; yours included. But ethics and morals aren't enough for most religions; you also have to believe in the God of that relgion.
quote:
"...and that is what makes me laugh. Here's why: If you are the Original People, why would you not want to come from the Best? Why on earth would you ever shy away from that which makes you great?

To say that we did not come from God gives rise to all of the ignorant claims that Black People are accidents....which is hilarious to me given that EveryBody else came from Us. If Black People, who are the first people, are accidents, what does that make EveryBody else?"

I am not of the opinion that Black people are the origional people. I don't think we are any better, superior, or prior to anyone else.

Kevin
quote:
Originally posted by Oshun Auset:
quote:
Originally posted by Khalliqa:
quote:
Originally posted by listener:
quote:
For those of you who don't believe in God, how do you believe the world and all that exists would be different if God did exist?

a God wouldn't have created a creature which will destroy all what such God created. Therefore, if God existed, there wouldn't be humans on planet earth


"Humans"? or culture? Are you aware of any cultures that are defined by their peaceful co-existence with earth and one another at any time in history?


yeah


Some Khoikhoi and Amerindian cultures.....maybe.

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