Skip to main content

I think that the general thinking on repatriations is that somehow money needs to be paid. While this fact is debatable and both sides have great arguments, i think an option is being overlooked.

You ask 100 white dudes if they should pay repatriations in cash form and 98% say hell no.
You ask the same 100 people if the Natives should be given land and i would think 80% would say yes.

I know that the Apache(one tribe) and the Tutsi(one tribe) have different beliefs and values. When you think of it are they really that different ?

Wouldn't it be beneficial for black citizens to act in the same way that the native tribes of north America do and try to gain land and political clout instead of cash money ? This way everyone can take advantage of tax free commerce and help the people in concern. I will remind you that the thought of the general public is like this....

Money= Hell no i had nothing to do with that shit.

Land = That sounds about right and i dont have a problem with giving up land and certain tax clauses, my ancestors were dicks.

There is such respect for the ills fallen on the native people, but not the same attitude towards black folks. I think this is because of the ways things are portrayed to people. Ask for cash, no fuckin way. Ask for land or special treatment, o.k. take it.

I am just wondering if this is a solution for the black community. I am for it, but im a doochbag, and if i was asked to pay more taxes for repatriations i would be pissed. If i was asked to give up federal land and provide a certain industry to be available only on these lands, i am all for it.
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Ted, you're obviously misinformed and misinformed on a number of levels. If the U.S. gov't had any inclination to provide land for African-Americans it would have been done a long time ago when land was explicitly mentioned before the current reparations movement.

Land could have easily been part of the civil rights package. Dr. King certainly had something to say about how land reparations after slavery was an issue and his contemporaries in the Nation of Islam made rather explicit land claims:
quote:
What The Muslims Want

1. We want freedom. We want a full and complete freedom.

2. We want justice. Equal justice under the law. We want justice applied equally to all, regardless of creed or class or color.

3. We want equality of opportunity. We want equal membership in society with the best in civilized society.

4. We want our people in America whose parents or grandparents were descendants from slaves, to be allowed to establish a separate state or territory of their own--either on this continent or elsewhere. We believe that our former slave masters are obligated to provide such land and that the area must be fertile and minerally rich. We believe that our former slave masters are obligated to maintain and supply our needs in this separate territory for the next 20 to 25 years--until we are able to produce and supply our own needs.

[[[[[]]]]]]]



Beyond that, N'COBRA (National Coalition of Blacks for Reparations in America) list land with everything else:

quote:
What forms should Reparations take?

Reparations can be in as many forms as necessary to equitably (fairly) address the many forms of injury caused by chattel slavery and its continuing vestiges. The material forms of reparations include cash payments, land, economic development, and repatriation resources particularly to those who are descendants of enslaved Africans. Other forms of reparations for Black people of African descent include funds for scholarships and community development; creation of multi-media depictions of the history of Black people of African descent and textbooks for educational institutions that tell the story from the African descendants' perspective; development of historical monuments and museums; the return of artifacts and art to appropriate people or institutions; exoneration of political prisoners; and, the elimination of laws and practices that maintain dual systems in the major areas of life including the punishment system, health, education and the financial/economic system. The forms of reparations received should improve the lives of African descendents in the United States for future generations to come; foster economic, social and political parity; and allow for full rights of self-determination.

http://www.ncobra.org/AboutUs.html


Given that information, I'd like for you to explain where you got the idea that cash money was the only form of reparations proponents have argued for.
quote:
Given that information, I'd like for you to explain where you got the idea that cash money was the only form of reparations proponents have argued for.


Hell, if Ted had just used the search function [refined to "reparations Land" in commentary forum] for this site, he would have found that many members here had plenty to say on land. But a broader search would have revealed that amongst the membership [you know, a sub-group of the affected group making the demand, i.e., Black folks] money or any form of cash payment fell far, far down the list and really so did "land." In fact, I would argue that they were only put into the mix because the authors were thinking in terms of how white folks think, i.e., $$$ is king.
quote:
Originally posted by Ted:
I think that the general thinking on repatriations is that somehow money needs to be paid. While this fact is debatable and both sides have great arguments, i think an option is being overlooked.

You ask 100 white dudes if they should pay repatriations in cash form and 98% say hell no.
You ask the same 100 people if the Natives should be given land and i would think 80% would say yes.

I know that the Apache(one tribe) and the Tutsi(one tribe) have different beliefs and values. When you think of it are they really that different ?

Wouldn't it be beneficial for black citizens to act in the same way that the native tribes of north America do and try to gain land and political clout instead of cash money ? This way everyone can take advantage of tax free commerce and help the people in concern. I will remind you that the thought of the general public is like this....

Money= Hell no i had nothing to do with that shit.

Land = That sounds about right and i dont have a problem with giving up land and certain tax clauses, my ancestors were dicks.

There is such respect for the ills fallen on the native people, but not the same attitude towards black folks. I think this is because of the ways things are portrayed to people. Ask for cash, no fuckin way. Ask for land or special treatment, o.k. take it.

I am just wondering if this is a solution for the black community. I am for it, but im a doochbag, and if i was asked to pay more taxes for repatriations i would be pissed. If i was asked to give up federal land and provide a certain industry to be available only on these lands, i am all for it.


yessiree boss ... you so smart, a damn genius... just what the doctor ordered.

I mean, what would black folk do without smart azz white dudes like you

to point out the obvious? Roll Eyes

You really ARE as smart as you look. Smile

Gag & puke
quote:
Actually, 2 1/2 acres (and a mule) was supposed to be given to the slaves


2 1/2 acres?? Hell, Deed Books in Maryland, for example, show how indentured servants received 50 acres as "freedom dues." The amount of land may have varied for colony to colony but it was always more than 2.5 and even the famed 40 acres and a mule (indentured servants supposed received farming tools and a gun) pales in comparison to the 160 acre tracts of land virtually given away to Whites in the 1862 Homestead Act.

http://www.pricegen.com/resources/servants.htm
http://www.archives.gov/educat...ssons/homestead-act/
Well, rest easy Ted. Land or money -it ain't gonna happen....PERIOD!! With all the serious and critical issues facing the working class, the middle class and blacks alike, why this is (reparations) still taken seriously is beyond me. It's like debating the merits and technical feasibility of riding a bicycle to the moon. Pure unadulterated fantasy.......
End slavery? No doubt, there was someone placing their bet on "IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN."

End Segregation? No doubt, there was someone placing their bet on "IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN." Ask that sucka Wallace (or Wallace sucka) who said, "Segregation now. Segregation tomorrow and Segregation forever!!!" how that sh*t turned out.

And, really, if you actually believed what you've said here, more than once, then there would be no reason to say it. Obviously, you're trying to convince yourself.
That fact of the matter here is people like Ted, the professed white dude, are in ABSOLUTE FEAR of having to pay restitution for something that they understand on a subconscious level is completely justified. They also understand on a subconscious level that they stole, murdered, raped & pillaged people and things that are not theirs. They understand that as a collective, that they have completely benefitted from the breaking of the universe's natural law. What they are afraid of ultimately is the consequences of their actions.
So what they'll do is come into boards like this and attempt to rationalize the irrational, hum and haw about their views & how they shouldn't be responsible, blah blah blah, ultimately dictating to African-Americans as to what we should think about issues that we are very clear on based on FACTS. As a matter of fact, Ted is dictating what he thinks that we are entitled to! How AUDACIOUS!! White Privilege attacks on AA.org AGAIN! How dare you?! When does a law breaker ever dictate to the court what their sentence should be? And the killing part is that you don't see anything wrong with what you've stated here Ted or even the fact that you've brought up this thread.
Stop trying to pawn that illogical crap you call thought on this intelligent board. nono
quote:
Originally posted by Yemaya:
That fact of the matter here is people like Ted, the professed white dude, are in ABSOLUTE FEAR of having to pay restitution for something that they understand on a subconscious level is completely justified. They also understand on a subconscious level that they stole, murdered, raped & pillaged people and things that are not theirs. They understand that as a collective, that they have completely benefitted from the breaking of the universe's natural law. What they are afraid of ultimately is the consequences of their actions.
So what they'll do is come into boards like this and attempt to rationalize the irrational, hum and haw about their views & how they shouldn't be responsible, blah blah blah, ultimately dictating to African-Americans as to what we should think about issues that we are very clear on based on FACTS. As a matter of fact, Ted is dictating what he thinks that we are entitled to! How AUDACIOUS!! White Privilege attacks on AA.org AGAIN! How dare you?! When does a law breaker ever dictate to the court what their sentence should be? And the killing part is that you don't see anything wrong with what you've stated here Ted or even the fact that you've brought up this thread.
Stop trying to pawn that illogical crap you call thought on this intelligent board. nono


Please justify to me me, why i owe you shit ?
quote:
Originally posted by Ted:
quote:
Originally posted by Yemaya:
That fact of the matter here is people like Ted, the professed white dude, are in ABSOLUTE FEAR of having to pay restitution for something that they understand on a subconscious level is completely justified. They also understand on a subconscious level that they stole, murdered, raped & pillaged people and things that are not theirs. They understand that as a collective, that they have completely benefitted from the breaking of the universe's natural law. What they are afraid of ultimately is the consequences of their actions.
So what they'll do is come into boards like this and attempt to rationalize the irrational, hum and haw about their views & how they shouldn't be responsible, blah blah blah, ultimately dictating to African-Americans as to what we should think about issues that we are very clear on based on FACTS. As a matter of fact, Ted is dictating what he thinks that we are entitled to! How AUDACIOUS!! White Privilege attacks on AA.org AGAIN! How dare you?! When does a law breaker ever dictate to the court what their sentence should be? And the killing part is that you don't see anything wrong with what you've stated here Ted or even the fact that you've brought up this thread.
Stop trying to pawn that illogical crap you call thought on this intelligent board. nono


Please justify to me me, why i owe you shit ?


please justify to EVERYONE why a black poster would owe shit to you...?

Go watch paint dry, trick.
quote:
End Segregation? No doubt, there was someone placing their bet on "IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN." Ask that sucka Wallace (or Wallace sucka) who said, "Segregation now. Segregation tomorrow and Segregation forever!!!" how that sh*t turned out.


I have no idea how you can compare a nefarious concept like reparations to segregation. Segregation (legal) and Jim Crow was going to end. The writing was on the wall that this insidious unconstitutional public policy was going to end at some point. IT CLEARY VIOLATED THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS OF BLACK AMERICANS. It trampled on the civil rights of a selected group of American citizens. The Supreme Court was very clear about its interpretations and ended the legality of it (segregation). The constitution does not support reparations.

quote:
And, really, if you actually believed what you've said here, more than once, then there would be no reason to say it. Obviously, you're trying to convince yourself.


No reason to say it? Ha! Ha! Ha! That's funny. I have every right to respond to this folly as many times as it is posted. And I don’t have to convince myself of anything. Facts are facts. Never had the need to convince myself of reality my friend. Of all the critical problems and issues facing black America, why would you focus on something that has no rational nor legal precedent outside of a distorted belief of entitlement? You’ll never live to see it and neither will your children or your grandchildren. Sorry to be the courier of bad news bro but it’s true……..
quote:
Originally posted by Xeon:

Segregation (legal) and Jim Crow was going to end. The writing was on the wall that this insidious unconstitutional public policy was going to end at some point.



The only people i've ever seen espouse this delusion are euro-americans...

And elaborate on (in a histrionics-less manner) why you've described reparations as "nefarious" when British Slaveowning subjects were compensated for the loss of slaves when Britain abolished slavery in 1833?

Slaveholders were compensated for their legally imposed loss of value. "The British government raised £20 million to pay out in compensation for the loss of the slaves as business assets to the registered owners". This means the slaveowners and their progeny never took a financial hit, while the slaves were never compensated for their legally imposed labor or inability to accumulate any material possessions. There is a distinct disadvantage. All but the willfully blind can see this.

Not to mention, Japanese-Americans were compensated for the loss of their freedom and livelihoods when they were forced into American internment camps during WWII...

Germany, and other european governments were forced to pay for confiscating valuables from Jewish citizens...

American taxpayers are paying billions for the rebuilding of schools and communities in Iraq despite the fact that I have never bombed a school nor killed an Iraqi...

The precedent is more than established and the right thing to do.
Peace...


quote:
it ain't gonna happen....PERIOD!!


How can any American take such a feeble position?


Why should we believe that it will never happen?

Negroes used to say the same about a black pro quarterback, or fortune 500 CEO, Federal Judge, and POTUS....Why would reparations be so far out of our league?

I think it is rather pathetic to witness underacheivers as they seek to spread their own self loathing onto others...



Whirling Moat
quote:
Please justify to me me, why i owe you shit ?


fro No...this is justification that you AIN'T shyte! What you and your white backward azz counterparts not only owe blackfolks....but the whole entire WORLD... And cuz your culture is slowly dissolving into nothingness....you come on a black site to try to validate your superiority...but! You. Cannot. Cuz why? You and your kind were never SUPERIOR...only violent...and backwards....and violent and backwards...and cruel...and backwards...and stupid and backwards....and violent! Not a drop of intelligence. Just violence and backward...oh yea and thieves...let's not forget...LIARS!!! So what you OWE cannot EVER be paid back in a trillion years. Got that? WB! Roll Eyes So why dontcha you find that cave....you came out of and crawl back in itConfused

fro
All of this jazz could have been alleviated if someone had the intestinal fortitude to have yelled 'HELL NO'!!!!!!!! when that Arab or Jew came up with the non-brilliant idea of yoking some Africans to ship over here in the first place.

Now here we all are: the albino cave ants, the brown ants and the black ants warring forever about who's superior, while all are the same.

If only the Indigenous had the nerve to say "That ship looks suspicious and the people look funny", when the Mayflower came into view.

Now here we all are, in ONE HELL OF A FIX.
quote:
The only people i've ever seen espouse this delusion are euro-americans...


Oh? Guess what? You’re wrong. See –ya learn something new everyday. It’s a good thing!

quote:
And elaborate on (in a histrionics-less manner) why you've described reparations as "nefarious" when British Slaveowning subjects were compensated for the loss of slaves when Britain abolished slavery in 1833?


Duhhhhh???? And your point is? That was more than was 175 years ago! What does that have to do with 2009? Besides, when that happened, the slaves and slave owners were still alive. What slave or slave owner do you know personally??? Besides, the slaves that they lost were tangible losses that could be accounted for.Unlike your abstract apocryphal notion of reparations, black slaves were like commodities and chattel that had established value.

quote:
Slaveholders were compensated for their legally imposed loss of value. "The British government raised £20 million to…… possessions. There is a distinct disadvantage. All but the willfully blind can see this.


This has no relevant meaning to anything. Next……

quote:
Not to mention, Japanese-Americans were compensated for the loss of their freedom and livelihoods when they were forced into American internment camps during WWII...


Uhhhhh…Yeah! That’s because many of the internment victims were still alive and they could produce documented records of confiscated property, finances, business, loss of jobs and wages. Now, if you can find some former black slaves and their slave children who were alive at the time of their enslavement –by all means, pay them! Confused and misguided Negroes in 2009 cannot produce such. Next…..

quote:
Germany, and other european governments were forced to pay for confiscating valuables from Jewish citizens...


And once again –IT WAS A MATTER OF DOCUMENTED PUBLIC RECORD OF WHAT HAD BEEN TAKEN FROM THEM! AND MANY OF THE JEWS AND THEIR CHLDREN WHO SURVIVED WERE STILL ALIVE WHEN THEY WERE COMPENSATED!! What do you not understand…??

quote:
American taxpayers are paying billions for the rebuilding of schools and communities in Iraq despite the fact that I have never bombed a school nor killed an Iraqi...


So what?! Get over it! That statement makes no sense nor is it relevent to this spurious issue of reparations. STAY FOCUSED…..PLEASE! The federal government spends my tax dollars on projects and issues that I do not agree with either. Don’t like it? Write your congressional representative or start your own organization for tax reform. E’nuff said……
quote:
How can any American take such a feeble position?


Well, if you think reality is feeble, I don’t know what else to tell you….

quote:
Why should we believe that it will never happen?


Because it won’t. Why would it? There is no need for it to happen. Besides, perhaps you should explain what your definition of reparations is. What exactly are you hoping for? Details please…..

quote:
Negroes used to say the same about a black pro quarterback, or fortune 500 CEO, Federal Judge, and POTUS....Why would reparations be so far out of our league?


Hmmmmm……That’s interesting. I don’t ever recall hearing a black person say there never will be a black pro quarter back, a black federal judge or a black CEO. Who told you that? And where do you live? Anyway, all the things you mentioned were not unrealistic, divisive or nonsensical (unlike so-called reparations). It was inevitable. What you’re hoping for has no roots in reality. Sorry to bust your bubble my friend but again –you’ll never live to see it and neither will your children or grandchildren. And that is a fact!

quote:
I think it is rather pathetic to witness underacheivers as they seek to spread their own self loathing onto others...


Me too. But if you think that’s bad, what about self righteous delusional Negroes who suffer from acute entitlement paranoia? That’s even worse…..IMO.
quote:
Originally posted by James Wesley Chester:

And to think< I ALMOST allowed myself to become provoked enough to respond to this mentality.

Thank Gaawwd!!!

PEACE

Jim Chester


laugh

I should have followed your example JWC. Expending time and energy on the willfully ignorant, particularly those klansmen masquerading as african-americans, is never a worthy pursuit.
Originally posted by Xeon
quote:
Duhhhhh???? And your point is? That was more than was 175 years ago! What does that have to do with 2009? Besides, when that happened, the slaves and slave owners were still alive. What slave or slave owner do you know personally??? Besides, the slaves that they lost were tangible losses that could be accounted for.Unlike your abstract apocryphal notion of reparations


fro

What's soooooooo abstract about it? I personally know a lot folks with that SLAVE mentality that could use a couple of dollars. And I know a few who hold that MASSA mentality who need to learn how to be charitable with the nasty dynasty passed down by their slaveowner forefathers. Maybe if they did that, the harshness of slavery and its ramifications will be just as real as the World World Two and holocaust stories that are beat to death on television and the movies. And oh…when they are on the Nazi hunt and find a soldier…he is soooo old and it seems useless to persecute…but! They still do it cuz it's important to do….just as reparation is just as important to blackfolks to do so. Don't you get it? It's NOT about the money as much as it is about the MESSAGE.

quote:
black slaves were like commodities and chattel that had established value.


Warning: This is a LONNNNG response...cuz it piss me off to hear this:


Oh so once blacks were established as people and not commodities/chattle we were no longer valuable? And the British were cuz once our title transferred from being "stocks" to "humans" ….it was the British who lost something? And that's far more important to pay them for destroying the lives of human beings than it was to give these human beings not only back their lives but a legitimate way to have a future cuz that takes money/land/stock. Right? So let me see if I'm getting this straight, the only ones who should can get paid for the woes of slavery is massa? Is that what you're saying? And ummmm just cuz there are no slaves alive today[.their offsprings/descendants don't count] there shouldn't be reparations for the inhumane[sp] cruelty done. Cuz that was the past. Right? And all is fair after slavery. Cuz at least they let them free. Right? And we should just get over it. Right?

So if you know your history.....you know that blacks were not treated fairly after slavery either. They were mistreated during the reconstruction, post reconstruction, segegration and during jim crow. And those who preferred not to sharecrop received absolutely nothing....even though they had their so-called freedom and worked many years prior to that FREE. But massa on the other hand was still able to enjoy his benefits as slaveowner. So again. Tell me my brotha why is it unreasonable for the descendants to receive compensation i.e. land/money/stock....even though their ancestors built one of the most richest country in the world? Can you answer me that with a straight face? Knowing their journey in that many couldn't feed their families and most had to migrate out of the south to the mid west (twice) where they were meet with the horror of KKK-caught and hung from trees, hunted down and castrated-their women raped and bodies swung over bridges along with their children. Alladat and still you say the descendents of slaves and former slaves should not receive any compensation from the cruelty of America?

I'm really having trouble digesting your spin my brotha when you say the actual slaves have to BE alive to receive any benefits. Does that ANY make sense? If so, you have to say that about inheritance too. Meaning: when a person dies he/she can not leave anything to the folks left behind in the future i.e.including unborn heirs. If that's the case, family dynasties would not have been able to pass things to down to potential grandchildren. Doesn't make sense..does it? But what it does make it is straight out racism! Cuz why?

Look at Japan. They treated their women poorly in their own country during the war and although America placed the Japanese people in concentration camps, when it was over the Japanese people affected was compensated. It wasn't an issue that they had to be alive cuz many offsprings received funding on behalf of their parents and family members cuz several had DIED during and after being in the camp. So. Why do their families get to have money for being mistreated by America....but! The descendants of Blackfolks don't. Those in the concentration camps didn't do FREE labor for 400 years. They were just placed in area for a certain amount of time. They didn't have to do any work for the government. And let's not talk about the Jews. Black soldiers were overseas fighting for their freedom too. But as soon as these Black soldiers returned, they were mistreated not only by Americans but by some Jews. In fact many Jewish merchants established stores in black neighborhoods and charged Blackfolks 100 percent more for items that were only 2 percent in cost. That sho is a good way to say thank you to the families of Black soldiers who probably died freeing their Jewish counterparts out of Nazi camps. Now is it? So what is the message here, my brotha?

Although the Japanese(except for the railroad...…but they got paid) and The Jews[original Gang bangers] did absolutely NOTHING to contribute to this country…they STILL felt they were/are somehow BETTER than black folks. Cuz why? America paid one group for mistreatment...and went to war to save the other group from genocideRoll Eyesbut! Black people who were stolen and forced into free labor...…gets nothing? Is this fair? Again what is the real message? Where folks all over the world can come to America and make a living...and can treat Blacks as subhumans...cuz the word they heard was:. Blacks were rescued/saved from Africa. Blacks are really man-monkeys with tails that grow at night. So you can come here and treat them anyway you like. That's why Asians from other parts of Asia can come to this country, set up shop in our community and without fear kill a 14 year old black girl over a bottle of 89 cents orange juice. Cuz remember you said that once Blacks became humans and not chattle or commodities....we were NO longer valuable. Wow! Question: How can you sleep at night with this sick mindset? Especially knowing blackfolks died for your ungrateful azz to get the education I assume you received, to live in the house you live in without crossing burnings.....even to go about your daily life unharmed[well almost as long as you stay away from the Po Po....that is if you're black]Roll Eyes God!!!? What is we gon' do? Massa goin around wearin' a black mask pretendin to be us!!! Roll Eyes Like we stupid or sumthinEek

BTW: Your white was showing.....many many posts ago...but!

fro
Last edited {1}
quote:
all the things you mentioned were not unrealistic, divisive or nonsensical


Damn... you're determine to EXPOSE yourself...

I mean, seriously...

quote:
I have no idea how you can compare a nefarious concept like reparations to segregation.


When reparations is the concept/term you apply the adjective ("nefarious") to; nefarious meaning "flagrantly wicked or impious: evil." And then you tried to overcompensate for your obvious exposure by placing this is caps:

IT CLEARY VIOLATED THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS OF BLACK AMERICANS

... like you were making some kind of point other than you playing lip service to egalitarianism. You say:

quote:
The constitution does not support reparations.


But point to nothing in the Constitution that prohibits it and, of course, you say nothing to the kinds of reparations that the U.S. government has paid to "selected groups."

http://library.thinkquest.org/...math/reparations.htm
http://articles.latimes.com/20...ation/na-goldtrain21


And those, my constitutionally and competence CHALLENGED friend, are FACTS... Facts, you know, are facts. So it's clear that your views on reparations to African-Americans is based on bs emotions like subjective nonsense like things that you perceive to be too "divisive" to consider/perform when ending Segregation was, no doubt, "divisive" but you have ready-lip service that rationalizes that...
Expending time and energy on the willfully ignorant, particularly those klansmen masquerading as african-americans, is never a worthy pursuit.---negrospiritual

Are you saying 'Ted' is an African American...who has donned a 'tag' as a European American...sorry...'white'...just to provoke discussion in manner he was incapable of in his own right??

Now...that is sad.

Has...does...'Ted' deny this?

Not that it would...really...matter.

Regardless of the source that mentality is equally corrupt.


PEACE

Jim Chester
quote:
Originally posted by Nmaginate:
quote:
Are you saying 'Ted' is an African American...who has donned a 'tag' as a European American...sorry...'white'...just to provoke discussion in manner he was incapable of in his own right??


JWC, I'm sure that comment was referring to Xeon.


Ooops!!!

Thanks!!!!

I apologize to 'Ted'.

Although...being African American...wholly or in part...is not a bad thing.


PEACE

Jim Chester
quote:
Originally posted by Xeon:

quote:
Why should we believe that it will never happen?


Because it won’t. Why would it? There is no need for it to happen. Besides, perhaps you should explain what your definition of reparations is. What exactly are you hoping for? Details please…..



As I've had to tell others on this site you really shouldn't be so one dimensional with respect to what you deem to be reparations... I for one am not advocating that Blacks sit back and just wait on a "Big ole' check" for example. Reparations for Blacks can take on many forms and can work in tandem with any other Black economic empowerment initiatives. Now regarding how do we get it... well a good place to start would be for Blacks to start realizing just how much they are owed and quit acting as if reparations is a pipe dream (or even worse something "nefarious"). Blacks need to start forming the right kind of coalitions and power bloc's necessary to effectively lobby for the things that are wanted and needed (just like any other special interest group).

In addition stop being so quick to give up the goods to those who use the Black community as a stepping stone for political expediency...make people that you help put in power BRING HOME THE BACON and address BLACK ISSUES specifically instead of all this "multi-culturism" B.S. that's being fed to Blacks. The fact of the matter is Blacks have not received any type of reparations up to this point because they have not been galvanized enough to make a concerted effort to DEMAND them... However as this economy continues to implode Blacks are going to find that they really need to be more VOCAL about their SPECIFIC needs because they can no longer get by on the crumbs being doled out to them in conjunction with other groups e.g., this whole "rising tide lifting all boats" philosophy.

I'm going to take a few days and post a little more regularly on this site just to cut down some of the falsehoods on here..because the b.s. being propagated here nowadays has reached a crescendo.
What's soooooooo abstract about it? I personally know a lot folks with that SLAVE mentality that could use a couple of dollars. And I know a few who hold that MASSA mentality who need to learn how to be charitable with the nasty dynasty passed down by their slaveowner forefathers. Maybe if they did that………just as reparation is just as important to blackfolks to do so. Don't you get it? It's NOT about the money as much as it is about the MESSAGE.

What message? That slavery was a horrible and unjust institution? Who is debating that? As I stated before, if you know any former slaves, by all means, they should be compensated. I was very clear about this before……

Oh so once blacks were established as people and not commodities/chattle we were no longer valuable?

Uhhhhh…..I’m sorry but I don’t recall anyone saying blacks were not valuable.

And the British were cuz once our title transferred from being "stocks" to "humans" ….it was the British who lost something? And that's far more important to pay them for destroying the lives of human beings than it was to give these human beings not only back their lives but a…………Cuz that was the past. Right? And all is fair after slavery. Cuz at least they let them free. Right? And we should just get over it. Right?

Sorry my friend but I’m not following you here very well. All I said was English slave holders were compensated for the loss of their slaves when slavery was abolished. Like you, I feel those black slaves should have been compensated for their enslavement. Unfortunately, they were not. I never said it was ok for one group and not the other. And to be honest, I don’t think the slave owners should have been compensated. But that is neither here not there since the Slave Trade Act in 1807 and the Slavery Abolition Act of 1833 happened more than 175 years ago (and the slave owners were compensated). It’s a matter of historical fact……


So if you know your history.....you know that blacks were not treated fairly after slavery either. They were mistreated during the reconstruction, post reconstruction, segegration and during jim crow. And those who preferred not to sharecrop received absolutely nothing....even though they had their so-called freedom and worked many years prior to that FREE. But massa on ………along with their children.

Once again, I’m not sure I know where you’re going with all this. The brutally and evils of slavery is not indispute here. I’m very aware of this barbaric and dehumanizing institution. So, I’m not sure I follow what point you’re attempting to make here…..

Alladat and still you say the descendents of slaves and former slaves should not receive any compensation from the cruelty of America?

If you were a slave -yes. If you were not –no! Just about every group can make a case in some form or another for being historically abused because of race, ethnicity or gender. But to compensate someone simply because they are black ( who never suffered from loss of liberty and freedom nor labored under the brutal hardships of slavery) for transgressions that happened 144 years ago to a group that they are a member of -makes no sense. Sorry, but it’s not going to happen…..EVER!

I'm really having trouble digesting your spin my brotha when you say the actual slaves have to BE alive to receive any benefits. Does that ANY make sense?

Makes perfect sense. If you were severely injured in an industrial accident -you should be compensated for that accident. What sense does it make to award your decedents (who know nothing of your personal existence let alone your name) 144 years later after the fact?? If that was the case, the courts would be indefinitely frozen with countless litigation and tort cases of past injustices being filed by the relatives of deceased wronged victims. Every group would have grounds for seeking compensation for their ancestors for just about every imaginable form injustice and abuse.

If so, you have to say that about inheritance too. Meaning: when a person dies he/she can not leave anything to the folks left behind in the future i.e.including unborn heirs. If that's the case, family dynasties would not have been able to pass things to down to potential grandchildren. Doesn't make sense..does it? But what it does make it is straight out racism! Cuz why?

Uhhhhh, you are free to legally will any property or assets to your decedents. It’s a matter of legal record and documentation. Who said this cannot be done?

Look at Japan. They treated their women poorly in their own country during the war and although America placed the Japanese people in concentration camps, when it was over the Japanese people affected was compensated. It wasn't an issue that they had to be alive cuz many offsprings received funding on behalf of their parents and family members cuz several had DIED during and after being in the camp. So. Why do their families get to have money for being mistreated by America....but!

I already explained this: It was a matter of public and documented record. Everything they had owned prior to their interment was documented. It easy to reconstruct what was lost.

Although the Japanese(except for the railroad...…but they got paid) and The Jews[original Gang bangers] did absolutely NOTHING to contribute to this country…

That’s completely false. And it was the labor of the Chinese that built the transcontinental railroads –not the Japanese. Two totally different groups. Next…..

….they STILL felt they were/are somehow BETTER than black folks. Cuz why? America paid one group for mistreatment...and went to war to save the other group from genocidebut! Black people who were stolen and forced into free labor...…gets nothing? Is this fair? Again what is the real message? Where folks all over the world can come to America and make a living...and can treat Blacks as subhumans...cuz the word they heard was:. Blacks were rescued/saved from Africa. Blacks are really.......almost as long as you stay away from the Po Po....that is if you're black] God!!!? What is we gon' do? Massa goin around wearin' a black mask pretendin to be us!!! Like we stupid or sumthin.

Ummmmm, not trying to be disrespectful my friend but you ranted and raved in a disjointed manner. I could respond to what you said but everything just ran together even though each sentence was seemingly indecent of the previous one. You said some things I do agree with but as I said, it was a disjointed rant. Next time please be more focused or specific. And I never said, “….. once Blacks became humans and not chattle or commodities....we were NO longer valuable.” I have no idea who said that but it was not me.

But to end this, I’ll say what I said in the very beginning: Even though this is a very emotional issue with some folks, their angst, bitterness and vitriol for non supporters is pointless and wasted since it (reparations) -will never, ever happen. I don’t know any other way to say it. Sorry to disappoint you……
Damn... you're determine to EXPOSE yourself... I mean, seriously...

Expose myself? Really? Well, no more than you do…… Besides, who are you? Bob Woodard? Daniel Ellsberg? What is there to EXPOSE other than differences of opinion?

When reparations is the concept/term you apply the adjective ("nefarious") to; nefarious meaning "flagrantly wicked or impious: evil."

And? Do you have a problem with that? Just to save you some more dictionary research time, I suggest you get over it rather than attempting to run down every word or adjective I use. But for the record, I don’t think the concept is necessarily evil or wicked. Those are your words. I think of it as an intellectually corrupt and shameful idea. One more thing, instead of constantly running to the dictionary to dissect and analyze every word I use –try using a Thesaurus. It will ease your confusion……

And then you tried to overcompensate for your obvious exposure by placing this is caps:

What???? There is no need nor reason for over compensation. Compensating for what? I state my opinion and that’s that. And “obvious exposure”? Exposure of what? The fact that you and I don’t agree? Wow! You just throw shit out there because you can type on a keyboard. Amazing……

... like you were making some kind of point other than you playing lip service to egalitarianism. You say:

quote: The constitution does not support reparations.


Yawn………Next………


But point to nothing in the Constitution that prohibits it and, of course, you say nothing to the kinds of reparations that the U.S. government has paid to "selected groups."

Don’t have to point to the Constitution where it is prohibited And I don’t have to make a argument for so-called reparations for “selected groups”. Their monetary compensation for unconstitutional interment was based on documented public records and living survivors. YOU CAN PRODUCE NETHEIR IN YOUR FANTASY CASE. End of subject……

And those, my constitutionally and competence CHALLENGED friend, are FACTS... Facts, you know, are facts.

What facts? Outside of your temper tantrums, personal attacks and failed attempts at pretending to be an English teacher – what facts did you produce?? YOU HAVE RPRODUCED NOTHING!!!! Those people who were compensated were compensated based on legal and public documented records! Their home, businesses ownerships, bank accounts, educational records, marriage documentation, etc, etc, was easy to reconstruct and prove. Your argument is based on nothing more than fantasy and wishful thinking! Compensatory class action law suits are based on tangible documentation or legal concept. YOU HAVE NONE!

So it's clear that your views on reparations to African-Americans is based on bs emotions like subjective nonsense……

I don’t think so. Sorry Elmo, but it appears “your acerbic personal attacks and innuendo are more emotional than mine. Nice try……

….like things that you perceive to be too "divisive" to consider/perform when ending Segregation was,

“…..like things you perceive to be too divisive to consider/perform when Segregation was,…”???!!! Ok, it’s my turn -this must be the writing of a post crack smoking episode….

…..no doubt, "divisive" but you have ready-lip service that rationalizes that...

Uhhhhh…..Yeah….and you need to have that dyslexia checked out. Sorry bro, but it’s really showing….HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA!
quote:
IT WAS A MATTER OF DOCUMENTED PUBLIC RECORD OF WHAT HAD BEEN TAKEN FROM THEM! AND MANY OF THE JEWS AND THEIR CHLDREN WHO SURVIVED WERE STILL ALIVE WHEN THEY WERE COMPENSATED!!


Xeon,

Don't fight "a white dudes" battle to "take on reparations".

Also, there are indeed jews born, post-holocaust, getting compensated as well. They weren't there, yet they are getting reparations to this day and there is no evidence to suggest that they will not receive reparations 100 years after you and I are removed from this existence.

Slavery aside (note: which I am not dismissing one bit), starting from the time blacks were allowed to work at tax paying jobs. Paying taxes for public services they, we, weren't allowed access to. Overtaxed at that. You speak of records, well, uncle sam does a great job of keeping record of taxes and who were paying them.

...So say you?
Last edited {1}
Originally posted by Xeon
quote:
What message? That slavery was a horrible and unjust institution? Who is debating that? As I stated before, if you know any former slaves, by all means, they should be compensated. I was very clear about this before……


fro Apparently not clear enoughRoll Eyes

quote:
Uhhhhh…..I’m sorry but I don’t recall anyone saying blacks were not valuable.


Nope not anyone! You. This is what you said “ black slaves were like commodities and chattel that had established value.”

So even though you didn’t say blacks were not valuable per se...the implication is there. In other words, your words can be easily depicted as saying that they [blacks] were only valuable as commodities and chattle....not as human beings. You wrote this. I didn’t.

quote:
Sorry my friend but I’m not following you here very well.
quote:


Welll. I know. Pay attention!

quote:
All I said was English slave holders were compensated for the loss of their slaves when slavery was abolished. Like you, I feel those black slaves should have been compensated for their enslavement.


I understood that part.

quote:
Unfortunately, they were not. I never said it was ok for one group and not the other. And to be honest, I don’t think the slave owners should have been compensated. But that is neither here not there since the Slave Trade Act in 1807 and the Slavery Abolition Act of 1833 happened more than 175 years ago (and the slave owners were compensated). It’s a matter of historical fact……


As you would say...”duhhhhh" I know it was 175 years ago. And if it were rectified properly and legally back then the way it was supposed to be....it wouldn’t be such an issue 175 years later. Right?

quote:
Once again, I’m not sure I know where you’re going with all this. The brutally and evils of slavery is not indispute here. I’m very aware of this barbaric and dehumanizing institution. So, I’m not sure I follow what point you’re attempting to make here…..


Well...19 I know! Go to library and check out one of the many African Americans from slavery to freedom books....and come back to me. 'K?Roll Eyes

quote:
If you were a slave -yes. If you were not –no! Just about every group can make a case in some form or another for being historically abused because of race, ethnicity or gender. But to compensate someone simply because they are black ( who never suffered from loss of liberty and freedom nor labored under the brutal hardships of slavery) for transgressions that happened 144 years ago to a group that they are a member of -makes no sense. Sorry, but it’s not going to happen…..EVER!


We are NOT talking about every other group. We are specifically talking about African Americans. Try to stay focusedRoll Eyes We are talking about Africans forced into free labor in a land stolen from Amerindians. We are talking about present-day African Americans whose ancestors suffered the most horrific crime in human history. And again...the folks currently here are their descendants. Where? Not in Europe. Not even Asia....but! In America! Roll Eyes Again, stay focused.

quote:
Makes perfect sense. If you were severely injured in an industrial accident -you should be compensated for that accident. What sense does it make to award your decedents (who know nothing of your personal existence let alone your name) 144 years later after the fact?? If that was the case, the courts would be indefinitely frozen with countless litigation and tort cases of past injustices being filed by the relatives of deceased wronged victims. Every group would have grounds for seeking compensation for their ancestors for just about every imaginable form injustice and abuse.


No it doesn’t make sense. And so what if courts are indefinitely frozen with countless litigation and tort cases. There were criminal acts committed against human beings who families should be compensated. White boy don’t just get to get away with MURDER!! And forced SLAVERY! Or does he? He always talking about JUSTICE for all. Right? Afterall[I say this in arrogance] blacks back then were nothing but chattel and commodities.... not humans with the RIGHT to their lives and their freedom. The courts don’t have TIME to right that wrong! Oh no! They only have time to continue imprisoning innocent blackfolks [a new slavery method]for life for friviclous nonviolent crimes....so they can make MORE money off of themRoll Eyes Right?

quote:
Uhhhhh, you are free to legally will any property or assets to your decedents. It’s a matter of legal record and documentation. Who said this cannot be done?


You are deliberately missing the point. To be funny. However I don’t see the humor.Roll Eyes


quote:
I already explained this: It was a matter of public and documented record. Everything they had owned prior to their interment was documented. It easy to reconstruct what was lost.


Excuse me. You don’t have to explain a thang to me. I can read. My brain works just like "yourn." Roll Eyes


That’s completely false. And it was the labor of the Chinese that built the transcontinental railroads –not the Japanese. Two totally different groups. Next…


Wrong my brotha. Although it’s true the Chinese were there building the railroad but! They were REPLACED by the Japanese immigrants as a result of the Chinese Act which restricted the usage of Chinese workers on the railroad. I think this occurred in the late 1880s. But! It doesn’t take away FROM what I said initially. And please....STOP distracting fact...or avoiding the point just to be RIGHT! It’s not a good look. Cuz you know exactly what I'm saying....about the Jews and Ooops excuse me "Asians." Again...what did both contribute to this country...without pay?

quote:

Ummmmm, not trying to be disrespectful my friend but you ranted and raved in a disjointed manner. I could respond to what you said but everything just ran together even though each sentence was seemingly indecent of the previous one. You said some things I do agree with but as I said, it was a disjointed rant.


Why you hatin’? Are you now my English teacher? I have creative license...as a writer I can mashed my sentences together....up or down...in fact any DAMN way I want. As long as the reader get the message/or point. Anyway... my writings can be perceived as ranting to some folks ....and viewed as literary to others. But most importantly it's proven data i.e. historical fact! So chose your posion....I’m not jealous! I. KNOW. What. I’m talkin about. And just cuz you say so with so-called informed “arrogance” ....doesn’t MEAN you are the editor EXPERT on how I am suppose to write or express myself. There are all kinds of writers/artists in this world. I'm one of 'emRoll Eyes

quote:
And I never said, “….. once Blacks became humans and not chattle or commodities....we were NO longer valuable.” I have no idea who said that but it was not me.


No. You just IMPLIED it. The same DAMN thang!

quote:
Next time please be more focused or specific.


I think you need to mirror you OWN adviceRoll Eyes

quote:
But to end this, I’ll say what I said in the very beginning: Even though this is a very emotional issue with some folks, their angst, bitterness and vitriol for non supporters is pointless and wasted since it (reparations) -will never, ever happen.


Your opinion. And if BLACKFOLKS thought like YOU!!! We still be SLAVES!

quote:
I don’t know any other way to say it. Sorry to disappoint you……


I’m not disappointed. I see folks like you. EVERY. DAY. The ones who think just cuz they can spell...and maybe read a little...their conjecture matters. They are an authority. Not! Sorry to disappoint youRoll Eyes Next!

fro
Last edited {1}
See what happens when you acknowledge input from 'these folks' into family business.

Nmag: I don't have a link, but it can also be noted that...

Land with earning freedom was often integral with the system of indenture.

Accumulating land after freedom was the reason for The Bacon Rebellion of 1676, and the basis for the subsequent Agreement of 1677...'no 'black' man of any circumstance can be of greater stature than a 'white' man regardless of circumstance'..., or something like that.

PEACE

Jim Chester

Add Reply

Post
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×