A sellout.

One sellout calling another a house nigger does not make it any less true, just as a fat person can call another man or woman fat, although they may not have any room to talk, it doesn't make it any less true.. Dyson also said that atleast Harry Belafonte had the courage to pick on someone his size versus dumping on the poor.

quote:

One sellout calling another a house nigger does not make it any less true, just as a fat person can call another man or woman fat, although they may not have any room to talk, it doesn't make it any less true..

True, yeah, yeah, yeah, the pot calling the kettle black and so on and so forth.

The important issue here, Faheem, is the fact that Belafonte said anything.

Talk about throwing rocks when you live in a glass house yourself. Furthermore, Belafonte isn't even in the same hemisphere as Colin Powell. Being the one hit wonder of the century, and a mediocre actor could hardly qualify Belafonte as someone that is Powell's 'size.'

It does not matter who said it, be it Belafonte or some homeless man or woman, it stands true. You can focus on Belafonte if you want, I would rather focus on the substance of his statements. You did not need to mention Belafonte crtiticism of Powell at all if your goal was to attack Belafonte.

Well, Belafonte was kinda right when he said what he said about Powell .... and, as far as Belefante being married to a white woman ... well, I really couldn't care less! He's not married to me, so I dont' see the big deal!! They both are men with power trying to do good things for this world. Labels and bed partners are really no comparison for that.

Dyson is a bunch of hot, stifling air who seems to talk as fast as he does so he doesn't have to know what the hell he's talking about! His opinion as far as praise and pointing fingers is something I really couldn't care less about.

Pretty funny comments coming from you, EBONY.
Funny how you didn't accord DYSON the same "doing good things" title you gave to both Powell and Bellafonte.

Well, DYSON was kinda right when he said what he said about COSBY..."

So, really, why the difference?

Dyson has yet to deserve the "doing good things" title!! Other than run his dayum mouth, what on earth has he contributed?

Has he attempted/initiated/conceived of world peace?

Has he fed any starving people in Africa? Hell, has he fed any starving people here in the United States?

He travels out of his cushy little (or rather, I'm sure, quite grand) office at the University of Pennsylvania to collect money for signing his books and talking about the Black community and what the White man has done to it. Interesting ... but old news!

He's a black man with a big mouth ... which is not all the time a bad thing! In his case, it's profitable for him, but not much else. Unless you have some achievements of his you'd like to share?

POwell?
....attempted/initiated/conceived of world peace?

HUH??


Please... Rather arbitrary standards considering your lack of knowledge about him and what he does.... along with your profit-motive characterization.

Either you believe in character assasination and "What He Said Was THE TRUTH" or you don't. DYSON is/was no less "truthful" about Cosby than Harry about Colin.

quote:

Originally posted by IRONHORSE:
I find it very interesting how Dr. Michael Eric Dyson would single out Harry Belafonte for being bold and courageous for calling Colin Powell a "house nigger", when it was he, himself, Harry Belafonte, that divorced his first wife--a black woman that was a general practitioner--and married a white woman--all at the height of the civil rights era.

some black guys marry white women because they dislike black women....some black guys marry white women as a form of social protest....some black guys marry white women because they coincidentally fell in love with one.....some guys do not give a f-k who they lay up with because their woman does not validate them or define who they are.....period....so placing coochie off of the priority list, what would make Belefonte less of a man to anyone besides a woman with self-esteem issues? The majority of sisters could give a f-k less I would imagine.......

K41:

I see your point, but...

'Island In The Sun' in the 50s was cataclysmic.

Arthur Prysock's marrying Lili St. Cyr cost him his career. He could sing both Frank Sinatra, AND Billy Eckstine 'in the ground.'

Sammy Davis, Jr. marrying Mai Brit was earthshaking.

Sidney Poitier and Diane Carroll shook up EVERYBODY.

Celebrity unions were societal events.

In noting comparative points, it is worth pointing our that both men are of Jamaican ancestry; one an immigrant the other first generation.

Both men vested themselves into the best interests of African America. Different times for different people.

While I don't like Belafonte's terminology, it is really too bad that what General Powell does best cost him his political currency.

Today, he couldn't win the office of janitor.

He would probably have survived if he had resigned when Bush and his 'in crowd' excluded him from that meeting in Crawford.

But Colin doesn't do that.

Talk about 'takin' it in the ear'.

PEACE

Jim Chester

I think some of you are missing the point in reference to Belafonte. Hey, I'm as open-minded as the next person--I could care less about interracial dating/marriages. I'm all about love, not being exclusive to one race of people, even if it is your own, if the person you happen to fall in love with happens to be of another race.

The point is, Belafonte divorced a black woman, a doctor, for an uneducated white woman in black America's greatest time of need--during the civil rights movement. I shudder to think what black people thought of Belafonte, especially in the south--one day you see Belafonte embracing Martin Luther King Jr., and being involved in various think tanks with Andrew Young, and the next thing you know he's embracing a white woman. Belafonte could have had any sister he wanted but he married a white woman. If I was alive during that day and age I would have been enraged--that was not the right time or place, star power or not.

As much of a fan of Dr. Michael Eric Dyson as I am, I'm begining to lose respect for this brother, not because he attacked Bill Cosby, but he is fast becoming an opportunist. Dyson kills me making an appearance on a hip hop show on BET where he dropped his usual philosophical mantra and starts coping a makeshift gangsta personna--spitting old school rap lyrics and giving a shout out to his son--what a fucking joke.

The time Dyson wasted to ridicule Cosby in his book, and the time he wasted to further ridicule Cosby while promoting his book during Debra Dickerson's interview could have been used to seek a forum with Cosby. I'm also wondering why out of all of the think tanks Tavis Smiley and Tom Joyner had in various cities, why Cosby was never on the panel with the rest of the black who's who in politics, philanthropy, religion, education and the like?

Regardless of what your personal opinions are of various prominant black people I don't think we as a race are in a position to have our best and brightest at each others throats in various forms of the media. No one is in a position to pass judgement on anyone especially to the degree Dyson has done so with Cosby. Dyson has a few skeletons in his closet too, in case some of you haven't read his book, "Why I Love Black Women." All I'm saying is that our visible and notworthy black people should be collaborating instead of passing judgement and pushing their own agendas.

quote:

The time Dyson wasted to ridicule Cosby in his book, and the time he wasted to further ridicule Cosby while promoting his book during Debra Dickerson's interview could have been used to seek a forum with Cosby.

Oh please!!

You, Debra and everybody knows Cosby ain't trying to go there. Seems like that was said on C-SPAN: That Cosby wasn't exactly trying to meet anyone for a dialogue.

So please cut with the fake, trumped up BS to try to excuse your illogical, not true to reality (or at least not consistent) ideas.

Nmaginate, you need some pussy, dude, forreal.


You need to cut this IRONHORSE fanclub shit out and go adopt a child or join the big brothers big sisters foundation and help a kid.

Who the hell are you? You don't work for BET, Tavis Smiley, or any tabloid or news syndication. You don't know what the fuck anybody is thinking with your ignorant, egocentric ass.

Stop following me like a stray cat and get yourself a fucking chew toy or a ball of yarn.

quote:

Originally posted by EbonyRose:
Dyson has yet to deserve the "doing good things" title!! Other than run his dayum mouth, what on earth has he contributed?

Has he attempted/initiated/conceived of world peace?

Has he fed any starving people in Africa? Hell, has he fed any starving people here in the United States?

He travels out of his cushy little (or rather, I'm sure, quite grand) office at the University of Pennsylvania to collect money for signing his books and talking about the Black community and what the White man has done to it. Interesting ... but old news!

He's a black man with a big mouth ... which is not all the time a bad thing! In his case, it's profitable for him, but not much else. Unless you have some achievements of his you'd like to share?

Bill Cosby is not a cultural or social critic, he is not trained nor educated in these disciplines to be taking serious when he speaks on them beyond what he is saying is his own opinion and stems from his upper class world view. I would even go so far as to say that many of us on this forum and this includes you Ebony are more educated and studied in the area of social and cultural analysis than Bill Cosby and our words should carry more weight than his, but we do not have the fame nor the fortune that allows us to command the attention he gets when he opens his mouth. However, simply being a man of great wealth who gives that wealth to worthy causes does not qualify one as being able to speak intelligently on matters he has not studied nor is trained in. Imagine if Bill Gates and His Wife who contributes far more money to education causes a year than Bill Cosby does all of sudden tried to offer a cultural and social critique of the Black community, would we simply say of them that because they give money we should listen to what they have to say?

Furthermore simply coming from a particular environment or people does not qualify you to speak intelligently on matters surrounding them beyond your own experience, interactions and development as one from a particular group and from a particular environment. Ones experience only allow them to comment on just that, their experience, however when it comes to cultural and social critique ones experience is not enough, he or she must be studied, educated or trained in these disciplines, this is why Bill Cosby has never been invited anywhere to give a social or cultural critique "He is not qualified to do so".

Dismissing the literary works of anyone as a money making mechanism is juvenile, I attended Dyson Book signing and discussion in Los Angeles last week and I can assure you what he is doing is not about the money. An interesting thing that is not in the media is that Dyson spoke with Cosby and Cosby sent Dyson a copy of all his comments that night and most of us do not know half of what Cosby said that night, even during the Debra Dickerson interview Dyson pointed this out and said to Debra you need to hear what Cosby said that night and she declined saying that she believe Cosby regrets his comments from that night which is a lie. Even more interesting Dyson noted is that Camille Cosby, Bills loving wife who has stood by him through all his infidelities disagree with her Husband and his comments and his blame the poor tour but Camille is not going to put their family disagreement or should I say dirty laundry in the media, how do Dyson know Camille disagree with Bill, because Bill told him so when they spoke.

quote:

All I'm saying is that our visible and notworthy black people should be collaborating instead of passing judgement and pushing their own agendas.

Right On Ironhorse !

'...I don't think we as a race are in a position to have our best and brightest at each others throats in various forms of the media....'Ironhorse

This freedom to speak is one of the risks of a free society.

It would be great if there was no 'internal criticism', but that's not the real world.

This board is proof enough.

As painful as such 'cross purpose' is to witness, such exchange ultimately brings the cream to the top.

Hopefully.

Determining who or what is the 'sellout' requires some determination of what is being sold out.

Even here, antagonists will disagree.

PEACE

Jim Chester

quote:

Originally posted by IRONHORSE:
I think some of you are missing the point in reference to Belafonte. Hey, I'm as open-minded as the next person--I could care less about interracial dating/marriages. I'm all about love, not being exclusive to one race of people, even if it is your own, if the person you happen to fall in love with happens to be of another race.

The point is, Belafonte divorced a black woman, a doctor, for an uneducated white woman in black America's greatest time of need--during the civil rights movement. I shudder to think what black people thought of Belafonte, especially in the south--one day you see Belafonte embracing Martin Luther King Jr., and being involved in various think tanks with Andrew Young, and the next thing you know he's embracing a white woman. Belafonte could have had any sister he wanted but he married a white woman. If I was alive during that day and age I would have been enraged--that was not the right time or place, star power or not.

As much of a fan of Dr. Michael Eric Dyson as I am, I'm begining to lose respect for this brother, not because he attacked Bill Cosby, but he is fast becoming an opportunist. Dyson kills me making an appearance on a hip hop show on BET where he dropped his usual philosophical mantra and starts coping a makeshift gangsta personna--spitting old school rap lyrics and giving a shout out to his son--what a fucking joke.

The time Dyson wasted to ridicule Cosby in his book, and the time he wasted to further ridicule Cosby while promoting his book during Debra Dickerson's interview could have been used to seek a forum with Cosby. I'm also wondering why out of all of the think tanks Tavis Smiley and Tom Joyner had in various cities, why Cosby was never on the panel with the rest of the black who's who in politics, philanthropy, religion, education and the like?

Regardless of what your personal opinions are of various prominant black people I don't think we as a race are in a position to have our best and brightest at each others throats in various forms of the media. No one is in a position to pass judgement on anyone especially to the degree Dyson has done so with Cosby. Dyson has a few skeletons in his closet too, in case some of you haven't read his book, "Why I Love Black Women." All I'm saying is that our visible and notworthy black people should be collaborating instead of passing judgement and pushing their own agendas.

I think that many black folks here don't penalize Belafonte for marrying a white woman is because he's from Jamaica. Had he been born and raised in Alabama or Mississippi, and married a white woman, he would be more ostracized than Clarence Thomas.

IRONHORSE,

Get the F*ck outta here!!
Who in the hell was Cosby "collaborating" with?

"ALL I'M SAYING..." is that you and EBONY should have a consistent standard. What you require Cosby should be the same for Dyson. What you excuse Cosby from (being an opportunist, etc., etc.) you should grant the same leeway for Dyson.

Also, (more for EBONY), whatever requirement you have for World Peace and Improving things can only properly be assessed by the jobs, talents or skills they possess or positions they occupy. It's pretty ridiculous to expect Dyson to fulfill a function that Colin Powell did as SOS.

WOW!!! Dyson didn't do what Powell did or attempted to do as a result of his chosen profession or appointed position. That makes Dyson less of a man, I guess... lol

quote:

Originally posted by IRONHORSE:
...I'm also wondering why out of all of the think tanks Tavis Smiley and Tom Joyner had in various cities, why Cosby was never on the panel with the rest of the black who's who in politics, philanthropy, religion, education and the like...

Maybe because Cosby, for most of his life and certainly all of mine, has been telling jokes.

As far as I know, Cosby was never "on the front lines" during the civil rights movement, he has never participated in any political/philanthropic/religious/educational debate of any sort until a few months ago, when he dumped on poor people.

Cosby has always remained neutral - So why would anybody feel the need to invite him to a serious discussion?

As far as Belefonte is concerned, the statement was courageous... The fact that he married a white woman may make his commitment to Black people suspect, but the statement is no lees courageous.

quote:

Originally posted by Huey:

quote:

Originally posted by IRONHORSE:
I think some of you are missing the point in reference to Belafonte. Hey, I'm as open-minded as the next person--I could care less about interracial dating/marriages. I'm all about love, not being exclusive to one race of people, even if it is your own, if the person you happen to fall in love with happens to be of another race.

The point is, Belafonte divorced a black woman, a doctor, for an uneducated white woman in black America's greatest time of need--during the civil rights movement. I shudder to think what black people thought of Belafonte, especially in the south--one day you see Belafonte embracing Martin Luther King Jr., and being involved in various think tanks with Andrew Young, and the next thing you know he's embracing a white woman. Belafonte could have had any sister he wanted but he married a white woman. If I was alive during that day and age I would have been enraged--that was not the right time or place, star power or not.

As much of a fan of Dr. Michael Eric Dyson as I am, I'm begining to lose respect for this brother, not because he attacked Bill Cosby, but he is fast becoming an opportunist. Dyson kills me making an appearance on a hip hop show on BET where he dropped his usual philosophical mantra and starts coping a makeshift gangsta personna--spitting old school rap lyrics and giving a shout out to his son--what a fucking joke.

The time Dyson wasted to ridicule Cosby in his book, and the time he wasted to further ridicule Cosby while promoting his book during Debra Dickerson's interview could have been used to seek a forum with Cosby. I'm also wondering why out of all of the think tanks Tavis Smiley and Tom Joyner had in various cities, why Cosby was never on the panel with the rest of the black who's who in politics, philanthropy, religion, education and the like?

Regardless of what your personal opinions are of various prominant black people I don't think we as a race are in a position to have our best and brightest at each others throats in various forms of the media. No one is in a position to pass judgement on anyone especially to the degree Dyson has done so with Cosby. Dyson has a few skeletons in his closet too, in case some of you haven't read his book, "Why I Love Black Women." All I'm saying is that our visible and notworthy black people should be collaborating instead of passing judgement and pushing their own agendas.

I think that many black folks here don't penalize Belafonte for marrying a white woman is because he's from Jamaica. Had he been born and raised in Alabama or Mississippi, and married a white woman, he would be more ostracized than Clarence Thomas.

______________________________________________________________________________________
I personally wouldn't give a f-k if Belafonte was from the mississippi delta......I would evaluate his policy stance and actions in terms if they are beneficial or detremental to black people.....his coochie choices are for sisters to decide.....they date men...i don't don't...and referencing the reasons i spoke of earlier about brothers who marry white women....many of them probably have better mindsets than brothers who just sit around making black babies just because they are black....hell quite a few black people define blackness as they extent that one follows or behaves along the lines of the ignorant azz stereotypes the media pushes as our norms...and again...a man who is for real is not defined by his woman, position or nothing else.....but his internal fortitude and substance....that is why I tell lofty and others fuck you when they try to act like my profession(s) are supposed to limit my dialogue when they say whatever in the f0k they like to me.......i'm not a self-limiting black and I know my thoughts are pro-black, but I do not let people tell me what ideological box i should fit into....that is my call.......

quote:

Originally posted by IRONHORSE:
I find it very interesting how Dr. Michael Eric Dyson would single out Harry Belafonte for being bold and courageous for calling Colin Powell a "house nigger", when it was he, himself, Harry Belafonte, that divorced his first wife--a black woman that was a general practitioner--and married a white woman--all at the height of the civil rights era.

Dating outside of your race does not make some one a sell out, so I think Harry Belafonte is no "house nigger" Collin Powell is a sellout for his actions.

Okay, see, all of y'all still missed the point. Yanno, I bet if I came up in here with a picture of myself and a white woman in a loving embrace y'all would have a damn heart attack.

It doesn't matter that Belafonte married a white woman--that isn't the point--the point is he dropped a sister to get with a white woman during the civil rights era.

Let me repeat that I'm all for interracial dating/marriages--the point is, in my opinion, Belafonte doing what he did at the time he did it was wrong. Being the open-minded brother I am, I still wouldn't have dropped a sister and gotten with a white woman in that day and age, geez, with all the access Belafonte had as a star back then, he could have had any sister he wanted but he chose a white woman instead.

The statement Belafonte made about Colin wasn't courageous--any negro in the street could have said what he said. Saying what Belafonte said would not have braught about any repercussions. Except for making a few public appearances and holding a performance or two, Belafonte has been in moth balls for decades. There is nothing Belafonte could do or say short of killing someone that would jeopardize his dormant career.

I also am in disagreement with the issue on Colin and Condolezza being "sell outs" or "house niggers" or however you want to put it. What would have been the label if Condoleezza and Colin were white? Would they still be selling out? So, what some of you may in effect be saying is that Colin and Condoleezza should have rejected their appointment to the positions they have/had?

It just doesn't make sense--Belafonte isn't a sell-out for doing what he did but Colin and Condi are sell outs for just doing their jobs? How is what they did any different from what any other person of any other race would have done if put in that same position?

It's not like the Bush administration is majority black or even less than half black for that matter--it's not like Condi and Colin could just up and have a non-violent protest in front of the oval office because 'that's what us black folks do when shit don't go our way--we protest.'

They were made the decisions they made to the best of their ability under the circumstances. Whether the decisions they made and carrired out were right or wrong is a matter of opinion, furthermore, neither Colin nor Condi are/were in a position of pivital importance, especially considering their actions could be underminded by hearsay from other members of the administration.

Regardless of whatever was said betweeen Dr. Dyson and Cosby behind closed doors or out of the earshot of the media is irrelevent. If Dyson had made a public attempt to address Cosby in a forum first, before putting him on blast in Debra Dickerson's interview, perhaps I would be more inclined to lean in a specific direction. I don't want to hear, "He said, she said" when it comes to matters like this--I want to see a discussion held where two noteworthy people can discuss matters at hand. If Cosby rejects, then shoot him down, otherwise, I'm going to be biased.

quote:

Yanno, I bet if I came up in here with a picture of myself and a white woman in a loving embrace y'all would have a damn heart attack.

You are wrong. Clarence Thomas was mentioned here and has been in the past. Few, if any comments about him, Shelby Steele, etc., etc. have hinged on them having White spouses. So, contrary to the shit you want to believe (in order for you to feel like you got a point)... discussions here have always centered around substantive things -- i.e. What People Do and/or the substantive impact of their positions.

quote:

It just doesn't make sense--Belafonte isn't a sell-out for doing what he did but Colin and Condi are sell outs for just doing their jobs?

Well, it seems like their "jobs" and them JUST doing their jobs (as dictated to by their boss... their boss who has no credibility or favor with the vast majority of African-Americans). Yes! Them JUST doing their jobs (and nothing else) is/was exactly the problem.

But we already discussed this.

quote:

Originally posted by Faheem:
Bill Cosby is not a cultural or social critic, he is not trained nor educated in these disciplines to be taking serious when he speaks on them beyond what he is saying is his own opinion and stems from his upper class world view. I would even go so far as to say that many of us on this forum and this includes you Ebony are more educated and studied in the area of social and cultural analysis than Bill Cosby and our words should carry more weight than his, but we do not have the fame nor the fortune that allows us to command the attention he gets when he opens his mouth. However, simply being a man of great wealth who gives that wealth to worthy causes does not qualify one as being able to speak intelligently on matters he has not studied nor is trained in. Imagine if Bill Gates and His Wife who contributes far more money to education causes a year than Bill Cosby does all of sudden tried to offer a cultural and social critique of the Black community, would we simply say of them that because they give money we should listen to what they have to say?

Faheem,

Nowhere in the statement of mine that you quoted was Bill Cosby ever a consideration in reference to those I was talking about. I, myself, would not put Cosby in the same category as a Colin Powell or Belafonte ... socially, polically, culturally, or in any other "ly"!! So, I'm not disagreeing with your statement ... I just don't know how to make it relevant in regards to what my opinion of Dyson is.

Dyson talks (and writes) a good game ... but, that's all he does, as far as I know of. If there is something more, I was just asking that it be told to me. When it comes to anything that is not self-serving (such as Powell's committment to America's foreign policy, or Belafonte's human rights and relief efforts ... or, yes, even Cosby's philantropy) where does Dyson fit in there?

I think opportunistic describes him fairly well.

Dyson is a social and cultural critic, an educator and a scholar. He offers literary works to empower those who reads his works or those who attend his lectures. He is also the Avalon Foundation Professor in the Humanities and African American Studies. Maybe in your defense of Cosby you have lost your own bearing by referring to Dyson as an opportunist? Maybe you think he is an opportunist because he teaches African American studies, clearly taken advantage of the fact that our history is rarely taught truthfully. What makes him an opportunist, I am certain if he is one than surely every man and woman that has wrote a non-fiction book over the last five years should to be considered an opportunist being that they took advantage of something that was happening and wrote a book on it. Using your logic we can say almost everyone is an opportunist thus I guess being an opportunist is not such a bad thing. Maybe you should pick up Dyson book and read it yourself and you will easily see it is far more than a book that seeks to criticize Bill Cosby.

Here is what I will do Ebony, Dyson gave me his e-mail address at the lecture I attended and I am in the middle of preparing questions for him that will appear on my Blog, but I will present your critique of him to him and see what he has to say, when he respond I will post his response. I am sure he can offer a better defense of himself than I ever could.

Lastly, Cosby is not that important in the grand scheme of things, the beliefs and the condescension that was present in his words is far more relevant and important. Cosby attitude is no different that those Negroes of old who hated the Black poor so much that they said the solution to the problem also known as the Black poor is to have FIVE MILLION FUNERALS.

I still want to know what did DYSON that was not "THE TRUTH"???

DYSON WAS/IS RIGHT!!!

"There's an old saying in the days of slavery. There are those slaves who lived on the plantation, and there were those slaves who lived in the house. You got the privilege of living in the house if you served the master. Colin Powell was permitted to come into the house of the master. "

-Harry Belafonte

this and the subsequent quote were taken from a transcript of "the Larry King Show" found here.

quote:

Originally posted by IRONHORSE:
...It doesn't matter that Belafonte married a white woman--that isn't the point--the point is he dropped a sister to get with a white woman during the civil rights era.

How is what he did 30-40 yrs ago relevant to what he says today?

quote:

The statement Belafonte made about Colin wasn't courageous--any negro in the street could have said what he said. Saying what Belafonte said would not have braught about any repercussions. Except for making a few public appearances and holding a performance or two, Belafonte has been in moth balls for decades. There is nothing Belafonte could do or say short of killing someone that would jeopardize his dormant career.

"Any negro on the street" did not make the comment...

In an age where character assassination is prevelant, any anti white commentary is hazardous to any person of note - that is where the courage comes in.

His career has always been in jeopardy as a result of his political views. I would, in fact, say that his acting career suffered a great deal because of it. HB is fortunately a multi talented performer and continues to tour as a singer and a speaker even today - his career is hardly "dormant".

quote:

I also am in disagreement with the issue on Colin and Condolezza being "sell outs" or "house niggers" or however you want to put it...

...It just doesn't make sense--Belafonte isn't a sell-out for doing what he did but Colin and Condi are sell outs for just doing their jobs? How is what they did any different from what any other person of any other race would have done if put in that same position?

To put things into perspective, I will use HB's own words:

"First of all, let me hasten to say, Larry, that this was never meant to be a personal attack on Colin Powell's character.

What it was meant, however, to be was an attack on policy, and the reference and the metaphor used about slavery -- it is my personal feeling that plantations exist all over America. If you walk into South Central Los Angeles, into Watts, or you walk into Over-the-Rhine in Cincinnati, you'll find people who live lives that are as degrading as anything that slavery had ever produced. They live in economic oppression, they live in a disenfranchised way. In the hearts and minds of those people, and millions of others, you're always looking for hope, and whenever somebody within our tribe, within our group, emerges that has the position of authority and power to make a difference in the way business is done, our expectations run high. Many times, those expectations are not fulfilled. But when such an individual is in the service of those who not only perpetuate the oppression, but sometimes design the way in which it is applied, it then becomes very, very, very, very critical that we raise our voices and be heard."

-Harry Belafonte

quote:

It's not like the Bush administration is majority black or even less than half black for that matter--it's not like Condi and Colin could just up and have a non-violent protest in front of the oval office because 'that's what us black folks do when shit don't go our way--we protest.'

What is your solution for when "shit don't go our way"?

quote:

They were made the decisions they made to the best of their ability under the circumstances. Whether the decisions they made and carrired out were right or wrong is a matter of opinion, furthermore, neither Colin nor Condi are/were in a position of pivital importance, especially considering their actions could be underminded by hearsay from other members of the administration.

Please clarify...

quote:

Originally posted by Faheem:
Here is what I will do Ebony, Dyson gave me his e-mail address at the lecture I attended and I am in the middle of preparing questions for him that will appear on my Blog, but I will present your critique of him to him and see what he has to say, when he respond I will post his response. I am sure he can offer a better defense of himself than I ever could.

I would appreciate that, Faheem.

But, having been to two panel discussions of which he was a part and seeing him a few times on TV, I can already imagaine what he is probably going to say.

I haven't read any of his books, as, from what I know of him, I simply don't have an interest in his opinion. Maybe reading his writings would change that ... but, I'll probably never know.

As for Cosby, again, it would seem as if he is holding more importance to you at this point than to me, as you keep bringing him up into a conversation that I'm not having about him. I believe he was right when he said that there are Black parents in the inner cities dropping the ball on their child raising duties. All of your and Nmaginates points well stated and well taken, our jails are filled with the proof of his statement ... and knowing that, that's all the confirmation I really need.

I've never said the man walked on water, or was even great or ultra-dynamic in some way. Those are your perceptions (perhaps of what I may think) but they are not mine. Dyson critisized Bill ... well that's nothing new. He critisizes a lot of people in his verbose ramblings. He makes statements for Black America ... that's well and fine. Somebody needs to. But just because he's a Black man speaking out for Black issues doesn't mean what he's saying is true, correct, nor substantive. There are those who think it is ... and others who believe it isn't. It would seem you and I are on the opposite ends of that opinion.

But, again, my problem with Dyson is not that he critisized Bill Cosby. I really couldn't care less. Bill's a big boy ... and he can take care of himself. I did not care for Dyson before Cosby's statement and Dyson's subseqent response to it, and still don't. Cosby doesn't even fit into that equation ... at least, not for me.

quote:

Originally posted by Nmaginate:
I still want to know what did DYSON that was not "THE TRUTH"???

DYSON WAS/IS RIGHT!!!

Please show in any of my statements, before your comment, where I put the words "Dyson" and "truth" together??

And since you can't, please stop asking me stupid questions about things I didn't even say!

Please EBONY!!

You list one thing Dyson said that was not the truth. Notice I didn't say "what you don't like", etc., etc.

Dyson (in his book) told the truth about Bill Cosby being a drop-out and a bad student. That is, unless you have information contradicting that. Dyson told the truth about Classism in the Black Community complete with historical information. That is, unless you got info. that contradicts that.

Seems to me, The Blame The Poor Tour is an apt way of phrasing Cosby's actions/speeches. I've yet to see him or his supporters outline what the Part Of The Bargain was for every class in the Black Community. And, seriously, THE TRUTH that Dyson points shows how Cosby has absolutely no credibility talking about who failed to hold up their end when it comes to the Civil Rights battles and forebearers. Cosby was MIA during the CRE.

DYSON TOLD THE TRUTH ABOUT THAT!!!

quote:

And since you can't, please stop asking me stupid questions about things I didn't even say!

Well, I just did.... and what are you talking about?

Seems to me that was the big question you posed in support of Cosby whether somebody said something to warrant it or not. Don't tell me you want no parts of your own type of questioning now. I mean, did Dyson tell the truth or not?

That's not hard. You seem to understand questions like that. You've posed it profusely. What's the matter now?

Point out where Dyson has not told the truth EBONY. Then maybe we can move this conversation beyond a popularity contest.

quote:

But just because he's a Black man speaking out for Black issues doesn't mean what he's saying is true, correct, nor substantive.

And Bill Cosby's was? That the exact critcism: That It Lack SUBSTANCE and was, henceforth, lacking the accuracy of depth.

But let's see you point out where DYSON said something that wasn't (1) True, (2) Correct or (3) Substantive. You know you saying that "doesn't" mean that he wasn't. That is, you have to supply the information that does more than just suggest (without support) that he was not telling the Truth About Cosby and/or The Black Middle-Class, etc.

Saying you don't care for Dyson doesn't tell us a whole lot. And, actually, I can see how people can be turned off by his "verbose" STYLE. But that says precious little about substance that you think he lacks. And it's funny how his STYLE is the only thing you've indicated was "wrong" with him - i.e. you didn't like.

quote:

there are Black parents in the inner cities dropping the ball on their child raising duties.

Funny how Dyson's the preacher but you're esteeming Cosby for preaching that recurring Condemnation Sermon. The Preacher Cosby said somebody is "sinnin'"!! That preacher tells the TRUTH!!! Give me a break! Where was the SUBSTANCE??

Apparently there are Black parents all over who are dropping the ball, if you believe some reports, because of the persistent Achievement Gap. Hmmm... and Dyson cites quite a few studies that contend with the Urban Myths Cosby was so given to in his CAST(igat)ING Call.

So, again, seems to me DYSON told the TRUTH!
He even backed his up with actual studies. Imagine an OPPORTUNIST doing something like that. lol

quote:

Originally posted by IRONHORSE:
Okay, see, all of y'all still missed the point. Yanno, I bet if I came up in here with a picture of myself and a white woman in a loving embrace y'all would have a damn heart attack.

It doesn't matter that Belafonte married a white woman--that isn't the point--the point is he dropped a sister to get with a white woman during the civil rights era.

Let me repeat that I'm all for interracial dating/marriages--the point is, in my opinion, Belafonte doing what he did at the time he did it was wrong. Being the open-minded brother I am, I still wouldn't have dropped a sister and gotten with a white woman in that day and age, geez, with all the access Belafonte had as a star back then, he could have had any sister he wanted but he chose a white woman instead.

Why does it matter if it was during the civil rights era? I don't remember when Thrugood Marshall got married, but he married a Fillipino women.

Although I respect the right of everyone to make their own decisions, I don't favor black men dating/marrying outside their race. Those who do so are rarely of any value to their own people and tend to be indifferent and disrespectful of black females especially. Thus, leaving the black women and their children, who are the backbones of our people, primarily without a caring, supportive male presence. Placing the white female as the head of future semi-black households, under whose influence tend to grow into generations of non-black households in attitude and genetic makeup...Also, diminishing the growth of a strong, cohesive, self-loving black population. Of course, black men who can't appreciate or respect a black woman are not a healthy option either. But if we are to grow in strength, numbers, and development of power, it behooves them to learn to do so.

Nmaginate ...

I have never said that Eric Michael Dyson has not spoken the truth.

And I'm not going to say it, just because you KEEP asking me for an untrue statement from him.

Nor will I be reprimanded by you for something that can't be remotely attributed to me.

So ... no matter how many times you KEEP asking me that question, I will have to keep considering it null and void.

quote:

I have never said that Eric Michael Dyson has not spoken the truth.

And I'm not going to say it, just because you KEEP asking me for an untrue statement from him....

So ... no matter how many times you KEEP asking me that question, I will have to keep considering it null and void.

Well, EBONY this is just all the more ironic because you seemed to think that very same question was relevant, appropriate and a very valid one when it came to Bill Cosby for those of us who took issue with him. Funny how the script -- i.e. your tune changes.

TRUTHFULLY, I did not "attribute" anything to you. I just asked the very same question you did and, pretty successfully, showed you how NULL & VOID it was when you asked it yourself -- considering you've made a point to aVOID it here.

Too funny....

quote:

After all is said and done, what he said is the truth. Bottom line. And it would behoove the Black community to listen up and hear it.

http://africanamerica.org/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/79160213/m/6531017841/p/3

quote:

I believe that Bill will persevere and not be turned away by those who are more concerned with him personally and with the message he delivers. I have yet to find one person who will say that what he has to say is not the truth ...

And I have yet to find one person to illustrate how his "truth" is relevant.

Making A Logical Argument 101 says premises based on TRUTH don't necessarily make for true conclusions. Therefore, the simple fact that he told "the truth" about something is, in this case, irrelevant.

Nmaginate... from someone who considers the truth irrelvant - at any time and/or in any way ... I wouldn't expect for you to recognize it even when presented to you.

http://africanamerica.org/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/79160213/m/1221048752/p/1

Funny how you selectively think the TRUTH is irrelevant -- i.e. Null & Void -- via the very question you posed so many times as The Bottom Line.

I mean, you presented it as the most important thing when it worked in your favor. But now... but now... Well, this is just funny. That's about all I can say. It's just funny.