A Candid Conversation About Color

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Originally posted by MBM:


How has your color impacted you and your life? With whites? With blacks? What do you think about this?

Onward and Upward!

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Interesting question. When I was a kid, there was an element of hostility from a lot of darker kids, but also occasionally some weird favoritism from black adults (I'm quite light).

Today I don't see any advantages. Women seem to like darker guys anyway. I probably can't speak for everybody, but the biggest impact as far as I can see (or care to be bothered trying to see, maybe?) is that people say I look Latino, and Latinos do often come up to me asking for directions in Spanish.

(Hmm. I hope the way I look doesn't create a danger for me now that I'm trying to learn some Arabic! I better study quietly!!)

But among a lot of our people here in the urban areas, it seems like light skin and wavy hair are prized in their children. That seems like the biggest color-related issue right now.

I think that we will be talking about this subject until WEB DuBois' "compromise of the 23rd {or 21st?} century" comes to fruition, where everyone in this country, black,white,Hispanic,Asian, morphs into the same exact brown. But for now, there is no doubt, that especially for women and children, being lighter {skin or eyes or hair or all} brings you more positive as well as negative attention. But, Gorgeous Looks will still trump skin color every time. I find it interesting that many whites feel the opposite way{tanner is better}. And that many white guys are more attracted to browner skinned women. But, that's another topic for another website! Anyway, MBM, you look kinda light-- what has been your experience?

In terms of eroticism and all of that, sure, white guys like medium brown or dark skinned black women, because of the contrast. But, in terms of more serious issues affecting employment advancement especially, there still is a stigma in being darker and there still is a 'benefit' in being lighter, as far as whites are concerned. With respect to my own situation { I'm lighter than darker and have hazel eyes}, I learned, after leaving one job, that one managing partner had hired me, in part, because based on my features and manner of speaking, i would have an easy cross over appeal to their clients. I had been naive in assuming that because I was black and I was hired, that they would be less racist; but, in fact, this preference for lighter and brighter is just as racist as anything else.

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vox: it seems like light skin and wavy hair are prized in their children

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faith: I find it interesting that many whites feel the opposite way{tanner is better}.

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carla: there still is a 'benefit' in being lighter

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we are moving toward that "beige" society...the product of every inter-racial relationship brings us closer to it [another topic]

what is the movement towards beige all about?

as a tall, dark-skinned black female i have felt the weight of my skin tone since childhood. in a thread about early memories of racism, i shared my experience...had i been light-skinned i doubt my experience would have been as hateful.

its interesting how dark skin has slowly become acceptable and the focus in marketing and music, but we're still not 'there'. india.aire's "brown skin" is a beautiful song, but she was slighted for the grammy. you also don't see people like angie stone all over place-her talent is undisputable, but she is not the lightest sistah out there. and there could be many reasons why these women of darker-color are missing the big, big bucks--but they are good examples of talented dark skinned women.

i know there was a time when all the women i knew wanted a light skinned man--but that's never been me. maybe because i like to wake up to something that mirrors my own complextion. apparenently with michael jordan, taye diggs, denzel, omar epps, who's my midnight man in the vampire movies? yes..dark is in when it comes to men...vox you were right!

my skin tone used to carry a weight with me, but now it carry's definition. there is no guessing what my racial make-up is when you look at me. am i this, am i that, am i mixed with something? although brothers and sisters from Somalia always want to claim me. my cross over appeal comes from my personality, education, and way of speaking. i'm sure there are still a lot of doors/opportunities closed to me because of the shade of my skin, but despite that i love the skin i'm in!!

those who stand for nothing fall for anything

People always say that whites are more comfortable with light skin blacks and that light skin blacks are treated better than dark skin blacks, but I digress! I am light skin, actually I am mixed and I don't feel that I am treated any better than a darker toned person. White people give me the same dirty looks anyone else would get. And I know of times where I didn't get hired for a job, only to discover a darker skinned black person got the job-so I have yet to experience this "favortism" light skinned blacks are suppose to receive from whites. And I mean I can only speak of my personal experience,but as I think about it, me being light skinned has gotten me positive attention, but not amongst whites-but amongst blacks. I get alot of attention from black men, them saying they love my skin tone and my hair and black women will say they wish they had my color and my hair. SO I guess my life has been the opposite from most of ya'll.

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To know me is to love me!

Don't hate me b/c of the things I say, hate me b/c I have the nerve to say them.

Growing up in Boston, in the 1970's, I experienced tremendous racism and discrimination. From the blatant events like being chased home by a gang of white kids in first grade, to being yelled "nigger" by a car load of whites while walking down the street, etc. to some of the subtle manifestations like being automatically tracked into a remedial class in middle school, to almost always having an empty seat beside me on the train to work while many stood, to being either ignored or followed like a hawk in stores, to being characterized as "angry" and "pushy" for the same behavior that was called "confident" and "assertive" in whites, etc., etc., etc. I understand racism from whites.

As a fair-skinned black person I also felt lots of enmity/antagonism/negativity around skin color from blacks as well (although honestly, growing up middle class in the suburbs, this was often interlaced with class "stuff" as well - yet another juicy thread for us to start!). As my mother is fair with green eyes and my father is a rich brown tone, I have been sensitive to both sides of the issue.

Ultimately, racism coming from whites was probably easier to handle because I expected it. When I was confronted by "stuff" from other blacks - it hurt more deeply and lingred a bit longer. I was black, so I didn't fit in with whites. And other times, I wasn't black enough. So I didn't fit in with my own. For a kid growng up (in Boston) trying to find his way it was often rather painful.

This issue really bothers me. We have so much real stuff to deal with in this world, yet we manufacture even more junk senselessly.

Onward and Upward!

[This message was edited by MBM on July 13, 2002 at 07:47 PM.]

i agree mbm...my racial inequities have unfortunatley come most often at the hands of black people...internal classism related to race was instilled in us from house nigger/field nigger days (hmmmm, QUITE another thread).

i recently walked out of a job that, come to find out when i was hired, they thought i was hawaiian...boy, weren't they suprised when my mom came to pick me up one day and that still didn't stop them from using that n word in my presence profusely--it was a nightmare. i had never been confronted with blatent racism in all of my 30 years and i was shattered, felt helpless/hopeless and didn't know what to do...it was quite the opposite response that i had always imagined i'd have in that situation. i always thought i'd pick up my afro pick, wave it proud and tell them where to shove it.

in actuality, the realization hits that you have no recourse, even me as beige as i am..this is their world after all, and the goal then becomes to just try to exhibit all of the grace and dignity you can muster, and let that be their lesson.

i am not deluding myself to think that many doors have been opened for me because most people don't guess black. i then make it my charge to use those situations as platforms to educate and be the true embodiment of all the things we are....intelligent, articulate, dedicated, tenacious, beautiful, graceful, dignified...all those things and more.

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Originally posted by Nykkii:
its interesting how dark skin has slowly become acceptable and the focus in marketing and music, but we're still not 'there'.

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Notice how Michael Jackson's popularity has "faded" along with his skin color?

Onward and Upward!

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Originally posted by Vox:

When I was a kid, there was an element of hostility from a lot of darker kids, but also occasionally some weird favoritism from black adults (I'm quite light).

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What part of the country did you grow up in? I wonder if there are regional "nuances" to this phenomenon?

Onward and Upward!

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MBM: Notice how Michael Jackson's popularity has "faded" along with his skin color?

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honestly, i don't think the fading of dear old mike's skin was the only thing that has caused a decline in his popularity. unfortunately his pedophile charges, his living with a monkey, his calling his estate "never, never land", the continued plastic surgeries, and just the change in music overall--it's not the 80's anymore.

the same decline in popularity can be seen with Prince (and he was light to begin with)--it's just not their time...music has moved on. i'm not slighting their genius--because it's still there, the times are just different now.

those who stand for nothing fall for anything

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Originally posted by Nykkii:

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MBM: Notice how Michael Jackson's popularity has "faded" along with his skin color?

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honestly, i don't think the fading of dear old mike's skin was the only thing that has caused a decline in his popularity.

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My comment was "tongue in cheek" - although who knows about the status of his mental health and how that may be evolving.

Onward and Upward!

okay, okay--that's the second time i've been zinged for not catching the "joke". this two-dimensional communication lacks tone, inflection and the sly smiles that would normally clue me in.
sorry!!

those who stand for nothing fall for anything

How has your color impacted you and your life? With whites? With blacks? What do you think about this?

I can truthfully say, I love my rich brown skin and see it as an asset regardless of what others think. I owe my thinking to my teachers, and parents, my dad particularly because he often referred to me affectionately as his "pretty black gal." And other adults who came to our house would say the same thing. At school the teachers would always have me on program. My step-mom would sometime complain about me being on too many programs. But those programs were assisting in building my self-esteem. Thankfully, my parents were alive during my formative years. Unfortunately, they both died, and I had to go live with my biological mom. That is when I experienced discrimination among black people.

My moms family was color and hair struck. The overt favoritism of light skin and wavy hair affected the children from sibling conflicts to children makings fun of other darker children. Had it not been for my early upbringing I would undoubtedly have some serious issues about my skin color and appearance today. Not because of white people, but black people my own kin.

I have worked in the corporate world for over twenty-years. The challenges and discrimination that I faced had more to do with me being a woman than the tone of my skin. In fact, I think doors were opened in some instances because of my skin-tone. But my unwillingness to play the game is what brought on my greatest challenges.

In middle school I had a light skin friend whose mom had to remove her from the school because girls would literally attack her. She was a tough girl though she fought their ass back. The situation got really bad. I think her mom did best by taking her out of the school. So, I've seen the negative impact of color discrimination on both sides, and it's ugly.

Lastly, traveling abroad truly enhanced my love and appreciation for my skin tone. Thankfully, not everybody see things in black and white like Americans.

I always say that being on the lighter side of the specturm is like being in a trick bag. Most of the time, the same hostility that darker skinned blacks experience at the hands of whites is also experienced by their lighter skinned counterparts. I will say, however, that there definitely is some truth to the notion of whites sometimes feeling more comfortable with blacks that they see as being closer to them. The sick part of that is that sometimes when you're lighter, you get to REALLY hear what they think about us as a people. Because they feel that "you're different from the rest", they will quite often say things to you and around you that they would NEVER say to your average black person. They think that because you look a little more like them and come from the same class background that you also share their views on race.

What MBM said has been very true for me as well. When I experience hostility from whites, it's almost easier for me to fight and deal with because I expect that from them. When I catch hell from my own, it really pisses me off and hurts because I'm not expecting it and I'm dealing with the same "ish" that they are. When I'm the new person on a job, it almost always takes a while for the sistas to open up to me. Once they get to know me, everything is ok, but before that time, you can definitley feel the wall that exists.

I'll add another twist to the original question: From white women, I get a mixed bag reaction.

1) Standard reaction towards anyone black.
2) The "You're light, therefore you're mixed, therefore you're
different and "o.k".
3) Reaction based on the "exotic, mulatta" myth. "She's exotic and therefore a possible threat to the idea that I'm the epitome.

I read what I just wrote and I really do need to be fair about this. I HAVE met a lot of REALLY COOL white women that I'd made friends with. Not all of them fall into those three categories I mentioned, but in general, the majority that I've come across have.

I can't say that my complexion has effected my life either way. I think that since I was raised in a home that did not allow ignorant thinking such as the thought of caring what complexion someone else was or that I was, it never crossed my mind until the subject was brought up by a childhood friend. When I was told by my friend that all light skinned people and all white people where pretty, I thought she was joking --because that was never what I had seen; when I realized that she was not just trying to be sarcastic, I still could not be convinced (brainwashed) into believing something like that was true. This experience did cause me to understand what puzzling statements I had heard an would hear, actually meant, like when I was a child and asked my grandmother if I could have some coffee and she told me no, when I asked why not I was told because coffee will make you black; my response was, So? Then I was asked if I wanted to be black, then my response was that I didn't care, that I was already black and that she was black too; the next statement came from my young aunt saying if you're black then you're ugly. My reply then was that my grandmother was black and she's not ugly; needless to say, I got all to coffee I wanted from then on at my grandmother's. I just mentioned this story to express how far removed emotionally or what have you, I was from judging a person's beauty or anything else based on their complexion. However, as far as if others are judging people based on complexion today, I do know that it happens, but I do live in the south and generally, now, where I am from, if the white person is truely racist, it doesn't matter what complexion you are. So, it seems to me that it also matters exactly where you live, even which part of the state you are in. I have met whites who can't even see distinctions in our complexions - we all look the same complexion until the differences are carefully pointed out. I seems to me that now whites will chose blacks who act, talk, etc., white more so than lighter complexion alone. Keep in mind that I am talking of everyday people living everyday lives, not Hollywood or Black Rappers videos

The conversation about color difference wasn't one that existed in my home. My relatives, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc all represented the different colors of the spectrum. We were family and there was never any discussion about differences about color, only Black vs. White.

Growing in a rural environment where my bro and I were the only "spots", the issue of darkness didn't really matter. Similar to MBM, name calling and other such activities were common place. Playing sports, really got a "mouthful", from the players and opposing fans.

As much as we have progressed, the media still favors light vs. dark. This is evidenced by who is in the ads and how we are pictured in the ads. White media is "taking" our culture by our music, language, and dance for the ads. It's "in" to be hip. The "darkening" of America is about money...when you Michael Jordan and Tiger Woods the number one spokespersons, that changes the image of what sells. However, when you see negative images, there are mostly dark big Black men. There are subtle messages, fear of dark, but acceptance when finances are involved.

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Originally posted by Toumani:
They think that because you look a little more like them and come from the same class background that you also share their views on race.

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Can you elaborate on this. What is this class background? I know and come from a circle of black people who are higher class, more educated etc. than millions of white people. I am sure there are many African Americans who belong to this higher class as well. In view of this it is a bit puzzling to think that the AVERAGE white person sees themselves as coming from a higher class therefore better than the average black person.

_____________________________
Is it just talk or are you for solutions? If you are GENUINELY interested in solving black problems? Then join us at http://www.theguidedog.com/index_nation.html

Henry38 posted,

Can you elaborate on this. What is this class background? I know and come from a circle of black people who are higher class, more educated etc. than millions of white people. I am sure there are many African Americans who belong to this higher class as well. In view of this it is a bit puzzling to think that the AVERAGE white person sees themselves as coming from a higher class therefore better than the average black person.

Henry,

What Toumani said is true....there is nothing logical about the silly azz notion of supremacy based on race, so expect some warped components to come along with it. I have seen articles that elude to whites thinking that way when the education, finances and class of the black person is higher. There has been evidence of discrimination in lending even when the black person has a higher income and better credit. You think that is puzzling that they see themselves that way......they have even protested the integration of PUBLIC housing, which black folks tax dollars are paying for their azzes to even be there....Henry, continue to chart your own course and progress...there is no hope in trying to figure out their psyche and the behavior it invokes.........

Mike's popularity died because he completely lost his mind and became scarier looking than a (fill in the blank)-er!!! He no longer looks like he's a member of humanity.

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Originally posted by MBM:
...Ultimately, racism coming from whites was probably easier to handle because I expected it. When I was confronted by "stuff" from other blacks - it hurt more deeply and lingred a bit longer. I was black, so I didn't fit in with whites. And other times, I wasn't black enough. So I didn't fit in with my own. For a kid growng up (in Boston) trying to find his way it was often rather painful.

This issue really bothers me. We have so much _real_ stuff to deal with in this world, yet we manufacture even more junk senselessly.

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MBM I'm sorry to read your painful experience growing up but you must understand the resentment of the very dark skinned blacks... We are the ones who are the MOST cunningly discriminated against and denied our full Rights in social institutions and governments!

The near whites and very light skinned 'blacks' can pass physically and visibly so whites that they can also pass the barriers of prejudice and discrimination, while we the Negroid men and woman (by Negroid I mean very dark skinned folks with broad/african features and kinky hair) are the most victims of all the wrongs and outrages in this world.

This anti Negroid/pure black sentiment goes so far that it has formed the very foundation of the ruling ideology of some African countries. In Mauritania, Niger and Sudan for example the so-called Semitic people (in fact light skinned blacks with Afros!) continue to use GROSS rights abuses against' the Negroid Africans. You see, these light skinned blacks Arabs wannabees kissing behind their invaders (Arabs) and reject their indigenous language, culture and sense of pride while the Negroid Africans are proud to be Africans with great sense of connection to Africa. I believe these light skinned blacks hate themselves every time they look in the mirror. They probably wish to look like Amir Jabir, Sultan Qaboos or King Fahad ..


In the U.S even though they don't go around proclaiming to be Caucasians I know a lot light skinned blacks insult and disrespect very dark skinned folks for no other reason than our color (and race). Black on Black racism is REAL, concerned black people shouldn't remain silent about it!


AfroMan.

[This message was edited by Afroman on September 24, 2003 at 05:04 AM.]

Afroman, as usual you are posting very informative and enlightening posts. I noticed you have posted two very informative posts in quick succession. Can I ask you a smal favour. Due to the speed some posts go on this board, could you stagger or space out your posts so some of us slow ones can follow and read what you have posted. For example you can delete your second post and post it three hours later. This way I can see they are two different posts and also give me time to read one digest it before going on to the next one Thanks

_____________________________
Is it just talk or are you for solutions? If you are GENUINELY interested in solving black problems? Then join us at http://www.theguidedog.com/index_nation.html

You guys should have tried growing up dark skinned in the backwards-assed South! It was hell being a dark skinned child in the 80's. The adults tended to not like you because you were dark skinned while the lighter kids got more love and attention (sunnubian, I understand completely your coffee story). When you got old enough to date, the girls rejected you because you were too dark and they wanted a light skinned brother so their kids could have light skin and wavy hair. Some black parents would freak out if you brought home a dark skinned boy or girl, and they might be dark skinned themselves. It took a long time; a lot of self-education, and a lot of self-reflection for me personally to shake the notion that light skinned women were THE standard of beauty, because this was what was beaten into my head from the time I was old enough to comprehend such things.


Afroman,

I understand very well what you mean by your sediments of East African ruling class. But it doesn't just occur with lighter skinned East Africans. I have talked to Sudanese who were just as dark as I am and they get very offended if you don't acknowledge them as Arabs. Many of the Ethiopians and Somalians (to a lesser degree) refuse to acknowledge themselves as black, and will have nothing to do with "black" Africans or African Americans.

Bu I have to say, I have never some across a community that has as many color issues as the Afro Latino portion of the Diaspora. You think we have problems with color in our community, try talking to some of the Afro Latino parts of the Diaspora. When you learn about the color caste system in places like the Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Brazil, and many other places, it will completely blow your mind. The Spaniards (and Portuguese) did an amazing psychological job to ensure that there could never be any lasting unity among the "less than whites" inhabitants of "their" lands.

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Originally posted by henry38:
Afroman, as usual you are posting very informative and enlightening posts. I noticed you have posted two very informative posts in quick succession. Can I ask you a smal favour. Due to the speed some posts go on this board, could you stagger or space out your posts so some of us slow ones can follow and read what you have posted. For example you can delete your second post and post it three hours later. This way I can see they are two different posts and also give me time to read one digest it before going on to the next one Thanks

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Henry, it certainly wasn't my intention to overwhelm members with my posts ! From now, on I'll make sure to spread the knowledge. ONE AFRIKAN LOVE!!

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Originally posted by whatzgoingon:
Afroman,

I understand very well what you mean by your sediments of East African ruling class. But it doesn't just occur with lighter skinned East Africans. I have talked to Sudanese who were just as dark as I am and they get very offended if you don't acknowledge them as Arabs. Many of the Ethiopians and Somalians (to a lesser degree) refuse to acknowledge themselves as black, and will have nothing to do with "black" Africans or African Americans.

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Now that is a true statement! Dark skinned blacks in Latin America are among the MOST oppressed people on earth today! Color discrimination against the very dark skinned folks in Latin America is no different from what it was in South Africa...It is well known and depressing how the AFRO-Brazilians and Negroid black children in some Spanish nations of Latin America are systematically exterminated in the streets like animals. The harsh reality is that very dark skinned people have to endure the most amounts of oppression from a society that constantly emphasizes that white/light skin is better and that is one of the factors by which things are organized. LIGHT SKIN privileged is real!

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Originally posted by whatzgoingon:
Bu I have to say, I have never some across a community that has as many color issues as the Afro Latino portion of the Diaspora. You think we have problems with color in our community, try talking to some of the Afro Latino parts of the Diaspora. When you learn about the color caste system in places like the Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Brazil, and many other places, it will completely blow your mind. The Spaniards (and Portuguese) did an amazing psychological job to ensure that there could never be any lasting unity among the "less than whites" inhabitants of "their" lands.

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You are right, swayed by a violent oppression I suppose, dark skinned Arab wannabees in Sudan and Mauritania now grow up thinking that they came from Arabia!! So they begin to associate with the Arab occupiers in Egypt and the ones in the Middle East...ALL these Arab wannabees are taught to regard their Aboriginal Great past, civilization and culture as inferior. Instead they are taught about how wonderful and God fearing the Arab invaders is, WHAT A BRAINWASH!!! But the day will come when all these people will wake up and smell the coffee. Arabs have stolen OUR lands...To associate with Arab is folly and slavery for Negroid Africans!


AfroMan.

[This message was edited by Afroman on September 24, 2003 at 02:38 PM.]

Ya know what? When all folks get sick and tired of alllllllll this mess and stand up for what they believe is right and AGAINST all systematic abuse, the chit will stop. Until that time; the beat will go on and on and on!!! We aren't tired of dancing to the beat yet! All WE do is talk 'bout it.

Henry,

What I mean is that if you are AA and are either middle or upper middle class, many of "them" who are also members of those classes will automatically assume that you share the same views on race as they day. As a matter of fact, they usually are quite shocked to find out that you don't on many issues. Many of them wholeheartedly believe that class trumps race in the US, and they refuse to believe that in this country, race will often dictate the class by way of economics and other factors. That's why you will hear so many of them here say things like, "Why don't you just pull yourself up by your bootstraps". It's kind of like what I've read about Brazil. They say that down there, many people (not black) will swear that class, not race, is the issue.

Anyway, that's what I was getting at. What are things like in London?

for some reason, i was leary of clicking on this post, but i'm glad I did. It's informative. to be honest, when i first checked out this site and saw so many bros and sistas identifying themselves as "fairskinned/lightskinned/mixed" I wondered if I hadn't stumbled onto a lightskinned peoples website LOL

I, like many of my southern friends, have a light mom and a dark dad. Is that common outside the south? for a darkskin man to choose only lightskin women for mates, and vice versa. My mom's peeps are the green eyed, wavy haired, light skinned bowlegged type and my dad's peeps are tall and referred to as "smutty black" or "blue black".

thus,
in any family occasion, a brown child who is a mixture of the two will always be told "U look just like one of them lightskinned bankses" or conversely "dayum, u getting blacker by the day like yo daddy's black azz". so depending on which side you are with, you are told you look too much like the other side LOL

my mom's peeps seem color struck to me. they advise you to marry "light" so that your children can "have some color" and they look at a baby's ears to see "the true color".

My dad's peeps are very tall, black, elegant people and from them I learned that black is black and white people call you nigger no matter how green/gray your eyes may be.

from a dating point of view, i think brown is viewed as "average" whereas a very dark woman or a very light woman is seen as unusual or a prize.

It is always odd to me when I go to one place and I'm considered "kinda light" and then I go to other places and i'm considered "kinda dark" LOL I think that Mississippi, Louisiana, and alabama are very colorstruck places. Perhaps due to vestiges of slavery?
I'm glad those days are gone...BLACK IS BLACK IS BEAUTIFUL

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Originally posted by Toumani:
Henry,

What I mean is that if you are AA and are either middle or upper middle class, many of "them" who are also members of those classes will automatically assume that you share the same views on race as they day. As a matter of fact, they usually are quite shocked to find out that you don't on many issues. Many of them wholeheartedly believe that class trumps race in the US, and they refuse to believe that in this country, race will often dictate the class by way of economics and other factors. That's why you will hear so many of them here say things like, "Why don't you just pull yourself up by your bootstraps". It's kind of like what I've read about Brazil. They say that down there, many people (not black) will swear that class, not race, is the issue.

Anyway, that's what I was getting at. What are things like in London?

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Gosh you know until you asked the question I have never thought about it. Never thought about it because here in London colour tint among black people is not seen as an issue . I guess it is because there are so many other races and nationalities in a small area battling the same issues it does not feature high in black people's minds. England being predominantly white that is 90 percent of the population they tend to like very dark skin black people as opposed to light skin black people, so I guess dark skin black people feel on top because in terms of attraction to the opposite sex they have and enjoy the cream of the crop. It is amazing how common it is in London to see the most ugly as sin black man with a drop dead gorgeous white girl. Look closely and you will see the secret to the attraction is the man is as dark as night and the girl, well she is white of course. It works well here I suppose.

_____________________________
Is it just talk or are you for solutions? If you are GENUINELY interested in solving black problems? Then join us at http://www.theguidedog.com/index_nation.html

Once women remove the make-up, false this and that, never seen anyone 'DROP-DEAD GORGEOUS' especially a white girl. What planet are you living on??? It's all a facade.

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Originally posted by Len:
_How has your color impacted you and your life? With whites? With blacks? What do you think about this?_

I can truthfully say, I love my rich brown skin and see it as an asset regardless of what others think. I owe my thinking to my teachers, and parents, my dad particularly because he often referred to me affectionately as his "pretty black gal." And other adults who came to our house would say the same thing. At school the teachers would always have me on program. My step-mom would sometime complain about me being on too many programs. But those programs were assisting in building my self-esteem. Thankfully, my parents were alive during my formative years. Unfortunately, they both died, and I had to go live with my biological mom. That is when I experienced discrimination among black people.

My moms family was color and hair struck. The overt favoritism of light skin and wavy hair affected the children from sibling conflicts to children makings fun of other darker children. Had it not been for my early upbringing I would undoubtedly have some serious issues about my skin color and appearance today. Not because of white people, but black people my own kin.

I have worked in the corporate world for over twenty-years. The challenges and discrimination that I faced had more to do with me being a woman than the tone of my skin. In fact, I think doors were opened in some instances because of my skin-tone. But my unwillingness to play the game is what brought on my greatest challenges.

In middle school I had a light skin friend whose mom had to remove her from the school because girls would literally attack her. She was a tough girl though she fought their ass back. The situation got really bad. I think her mom did best by taking her out of the school. So, I've seen the negative impact of color discrimination on both sides, and it's ugly.

Lastly, traveling abroad truly enhanced my love and appreciation for my skin tone. Thankfully, not everybody see things in black and white like Americans.

---

Darkness of color wasnt a problem for me since I lived in a almost an all white neighborhood. Whites didnt care as long as you were black. It was when my sister made me think when i said i wished i had a lighter skin tone is when i noticed i had a problem. Since than i would actually like a darker skin tone(no offensse to lighter skinned blacks)

What i would like to ask is what can we do to stop spreading self hate to light skinned and dark skinned blacks.

This might come off racist but if theres anything whites are good at, they are good at psycologically deteriating minorities...

First of all we're not minor in any way. I believe whites have to undermine other people on the planet, because they know if they ever let their hair grow in the manner it's meant to be, they'd be the true minorities. Nothing on this planet would look like 'em. It's a facade, but this "clean-shaven" image must be maintained. Cause they're some HAIRY jokas!!

I don't think I've experienced much colorism from within the community.

Light Black people describe me as dark and dark Black people describe me as light, but I suppose my complexion is too in the middle to draw any bias from either side.

I was handed a lightening cream from a mixed Latina, though.

I can get very dark in the summer and she assumed that when I am lighter, it is due to using creams.

When she realized that wasn't the case, she tried to encourage me to use the cream. Her attitude was kinda of, if this is your normal complexion, imagine how beautiful you can be.

I said nothing other than no thank you, but felt that I needed to confront her mentality after I babysat her son and saw she was rubbing off on him.

Her son turned over my arm one day and said, "I like you like this," preferring the lighter hue of my inner arm.

It was lighter than his skin.

If that is not the foundation of self-hate, I don't know what is.

His mom didn't see it, though.

I began to see more and more how my color could affect my life at my last job in retail.

A bunch of Black people could say something, but some customers didn't see it as credible until a White person came over and confirmed.

Some customers seemed scared to say hi to me. I saw a few pocket clinchers and the usual.

But what caught me off guard was how some customers were very quick to get aggressive with me, I suppose because they expected me to get aggressive with them or because they just saw me as aggressive to begin with.

If I shook my head, I was seen as yelling.

One women was telling her friend who was standing right next to her to look at how "that girl" was yelling at her. Her friend swiveled her neck all around to see who had such audacity, lol.

It was something coworkers and I would joke about, but it became a serious issue for me when some customers reported me for attitude.

Lucky for me there was always another coworker around who could vouch that I have not once screamed at or berated a customer.

But that could have impacted my job.

And sure they had confirmation that I didn't yell, but I'm sure that after a while they would have wondered why is she getting the complaints and not the others? Is there a vibe she's giving off?

They weren't around to see how a person's attitude would change on a dime when the race they were talking to changed.

I never experienced racism from my supervisors, but it was still clear that racism could stop my advancement and I'm still fuming about that.

In view of this it is a bit puzzling to think that the AVERAGE white person sees themselves as coming from a higher class therefore better than the average black person.---henry38

In America, all whites perceive themselves as superior to every, and any person of African ancestry, particularly of unknown African ancestry.

This codified in American construction.

Google: Bacon Rebellion

PEACE

Jim Chester

As long as I am black it seems to work quite well for me.

I laugh at people who name themselves after candy like peanut butter complexion, caramel, chocolate, butterscotch, etc.

Its too funny.


Imagine our ancestors say Im a caramel enslaved African or chocolate enslaved African. Its getting ridiculous.

I think they spent to much time at the candy store when younger and probably hate vegetables leading to the horrible road to diabetes which is a serious problem in the "black" community.

quote:

Originally posted by James Wesley Chester:

In America, all whites perceive themselves as superior to every, and any person of African ancestry, particularly of unknown African ancestry.

Do you honestly think it makes a difference to white folks whether a black person knows where he came from or not?

Is one somehow even more of a nigger without that knowledge?

quote:

Originally posted by Dusty Elbow:
As long as I am black it seems to work quite well for me.

I laugh at people who name themselves after candy like peanut butter complexion, caramel, chocolate, butterscotch, etc.

Its too funny.


Imagine our ancestors say Im a caramel enslaved African or chocolate enslaved African. Its getting ridiculous.

I think they spent to much time at the candy store when younger and probably hate vegetables leading to the horrible road to diabetes which is a serious problem in the "black" community.

I love food names.

I use them for everyone, not just Blacks.

Growing up, I was called all types of names by Black people. It always started out with "you big, black, ugly, blah, blah, blah." I went to college pissed off and angry - especially with lighter skinned women. I got over it once I started studying our history.

Brothers, however, got some serious issues when it comes to measuring beauty. And based upon my circle of friends, life time spent around brothers, and an analysis of Black popular culture, Black men appear to find sistas more attractive if they are lighter in skin color.

I really don't get it.

quote:

Originally posted by Shango67:
Growing up, I was called all types of names by Black people. It always started out with "you big, black, ugly, blah, blah, blah." I went to college pissed off and angry - especially with lighter skinned women. I got over it once I started studying our history.

Brothers, however, got some serious issues when it comes to measuring beauty. And based upon my circle of friends, life time spent around brothers, and an analysis of Black popular culture, Black men appear to find sistas more attractive if they are lighter in skin color.

I really don't get it.

I have never heard a brother speak from your position......


never.......


but it is heartening to know that there are brothers out there that appreciate other types of beauty......


Nice......



Peace,
Virtue