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fro I LOVE Smokey. He's the reason I am the writer I am[although I haven't written anything here on this board...other than opinion...but anyway]. As a little girl, I used to listen to his musicmusic...wait patiently until his latest record/song came out...and then write my version [or the female answer to what he was singing about]. Not only did this build my language skills, but it also gave me a voice I never knew I had. I tip my hat to his outstanding musical ability/contribution to African American music. hat For me, HE IS THE BOMB! In every sense of the word. This reminds me...I just might do a bio on him in my blog of the African American males who are my HEROES/MENTORS/MODELS...of absolute excellence. Look for it this summer. fro
Well, I was completely floored by this! I grew up with the Motown Sound, too .. but, I never thought of Smokey as anything special! I was a Temptations girl, myself! Big Grin But Smokey and the Miracles were always good for a good love song or two!

You're welcome, Umbra! I didn't know it was that old! Eek

And, I'm not sure I agree with his sentiment either, but, I also respect his right to his opinion. And he said it well! I guess Smokey's still got a little fire in him, huh? Big Grin
quote:
And, I'm not sure I agree with his sentiment either, but, I also respect his right to his opinion.


His sentiment is less extreme than mine.

I wouldn't have an American flag in my house.

This is the kind of stuff that says what is really going on:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjPoeQRewiE

What we get in the news is shallow, superficial smokescreen. The majority of palefaces are suckers for their own system. I think White Americans that are patriotic are STUPID.

I usually don't pick favorites I like different music for different reasons. I've got stuff by The Miracles, The Temptations, The Supremes, Four Tops, and Aretha. I never liked James Brown that much though. Smokey's music had a somewhat more sophisticated style than the Temptations.

African American means about the same as Nigger NAZI to me.

umbra

PS - How do you build a 110 story skyscraper without determining how much steel and concrete to put on every level before you even dig the hole for the foundation. But SIX YEARS after the collapse of those skyscrapers the EXPERTS haven't even raised such an obvious question, much less provided the information. It is so stupid it is almost funny. The Three Stooges War on Terror!
fro Let's not forget...that SMOKEY was the lyric WRITER for most of the motown sound...in fact, he was almost single-handedly responsible for the sucess of the Supremes, Temptations, Four Tops, Marvin Gaye and Tammy Terrell, Martha Reeves and the Vandellas and many others....cuz why? He wrote most of their SONGS! So if you didn't like his music or persona as an entertainer....he got YOU [subliminally] by writing songs for the Motown Family. He did this before Dozier and Dozier and others began writing for Motown. In the beginning of the famous Motown Sound, SMOKEY was ALL Barry had. Although he [Barry]wrote a couple of songs....but primarily it was ALL Smokey. Just so you know. So the brotha has evolved. And he was ALWAYS DEEP. Before his time. Made Barry and other entertainers famous and RICH. How powerful is that? One man....all those success stories. He is an amazing gift from the Universe..with life journey of experience to share. I am PROUD of what he has not done not only for the Black Community but for the world who continues to listen to his music. Cuz back then, our music was one of our shinning moments in America history. He did us GOOD! Now, I didn't see the video or know his politics...I do know he is "born" again...but that doesn't take away from his outstanding musical contribution to humanity. He's human....he has acquired his own VOICE as a result of his experience in life...but! he is also a "rare" living legend. And has done a lot for a lot of PEOPLE. His people. I am honored he is still with us.

BTW: Playing Smokey's songs in the car during a date back in the day, was almost a guarantee of getting that FIRST kiss. But! Back then, men and women used to COURT. I can't describe what the new generation is doing nowEek fro
quote:
Originally posted by Kocolicious:
fro Let's not forget...that SMOKEY was the lyric WRITER for most of the motown sound...in fact, he was almost single-handedly responsible for the sucess of the Supremes, Temptations, Four Tops, Marvin Gaye and Tammy Terrell, Martha Reeves and the Vandellas and many others....cuz why? He wrote most of their SONGS! So if you didn't like his music or persona as an entertainer....he got YOU [subliminally] by writing songs for the Motown Family. He did this before Dozier and Dozier and others began writing for Motown. In the beginning of the famous Motown Sound, SMOKEY was ALL Barry had. Although he [Barry]wrote a couple of songs....but primarily it was ALL Smokey. Just so you know. So the brotha has evolved. And he was ALWAYS DEEP. Before his time. Made Barry and other entertainers famous and RICH. How powerful is that? One man....all those success stories. He is an amazing gift from the Universe..with life journey of experience to share. I am PROUD of what he has not done not only for the Black Community but for the world who continues to listen to his music. Cuz back then, our music was one of our shinning moments in America history. He did us GOOD! Now, I didn't see the video or know his politics...I do know he is "born" again...but that doesn't take away from his outstanding musical contribution to humanity. He's human....he has acquired his own VOICE as a result of his experience in life...but! he is also a "rare" living legend. And has done a lot for a lot of PEOPLE. His people. I am honored he is still with us.

BTW: Playing Smokey's songs in the car during a date back in the day, was almost a guarantee of getting that FIRST kiss. But! Back then, men and women used to COURT. I can't describe what the new generation is doing nowEek fro


Nice! He was more impressive than I thought. But he didn't write for Stevie who was by far the best artist of that generation or on Motown and maybe ever.
I do think you over doing it a bit. He was good musician, but he isn't a legend.
quote:
Originally posted by Afro Saxon:
Nice! He was more impressive than I thought. But he didn't write for Stevie who was by far the best artist of that generation or on Motown and maybe ever.
I do think you over doing it a bit. He was good musician, but he isn't a legend.


Yeah Right!

quote:
The Immortals - The Greatest Artists of All Time: 32) Smokey Robinson and the Miracles
By Bob Seger

Posted Apr 15, 2004 12:00 AM

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/5939231/the_immo...son_and_the_miracles

So you don't like Smokey. Who cares! That don't change reality.

umbra

PS - I'm still trying to find a list of songs he wrote for other artists.

"My Girl", written by Smokey Robinson & Ronald White

SONG FIRST RELEASED RATING
My Girl 1965 10.0
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Originally posted by Noah The African:
Smokey is a poetic genius. He used to write most of Motown's lyrics back in the day . Of course I don't agree with his assessment, but I respect it. There are African people in Africa who see the big picture and see black Americans as their brothers just as much as they see native Africans as such.....I know because I know many.


yeah Exactly...
fro I NEVER said he wrote for Stevie....who is a genius in his own right. Brotha...I don't KNOW where you've been in the last few decades..But! Smokey Robinson IS a living MUSICAL legend...whether you accept that part of BLACK HISTORY of not. Won't change his title...cuz YOU don't believe it. It doesn't negate/or alter the FACTS or EVIDENCE of his musical brillance. BTW: Smokey wasn't/isn't a MUSICAN per se (although he may play the piano)...he is better known as a writer, composer, producer and SINGER of MUSIC! Words not instruments....apples and oranges! To each his own...in terms of what one likes in music. Every one has his/her own taste...however, it doesn't mean just cuz you may not like a person's music....doesn't mean that person is NOT a musical legend. It only means YOU don't happen to like his style...is all. But history says Smokey's a LEGEND...whether he's accepted by others or not. It is what it is, my brotha. fro
quote:
Originally posted by Kocolicious:
fro I NEVER said he wrote for Stevie....who is a genius in his own right. Brotha...I don't KNOW where you've been in the last few decades..But! Smokey Robinson IS a living MUSICAL legend...whether you accept that part of BLACK HISTORY of not. Won't change his title...cuz YOU don't believe it. It doesn't negate/or alter the FACTS or EVIDENCE of his musical brillance. BTW: Smokey wasn't/isn't a MUSICAN per se (although he may play the piano)...he is better known as a writer, composer, producer and SINGER of MUSIC! Words not instruments....apples and oranges! To each his own...in terms of what one likes in music. Every one has his/her own taste...however, it doesn't mean just cuz you may not like a person's music....doesn't mean that person is NOT a musical legend. It only means YOU don't happen to like his style...is all. But history says Smokey's a LEGEND...whether he's accepted by others or not. It is what it is, my brotha. fro

I do not see it, Smokey's music was simple, entertaining but simple. Stevie Wonder is a musical genius and legend I can not say the same for Smokey.Stevie wrote about important things well, understood world religions (heaven is light years), used musical techniques that have not been used sense the sixtenth century and used instruments that no one used well before him. Dominated the Grammys for a half of decade, so much so that the winner the year he didn't put an album thank him for it. Smokey doesn't havethose sort of credentials. The terms legend and genius are thrown around far too lightly.
It isn't a like or dislike thing. I do not like Louis Armstrong much but I recognize he is a legend, he made quality music. Smokey's "You really Got a hold on me" doesn't do the same.
fro You're entitled to see it your own way. Doesn't change the facts. Smokey won a grammy as well. Not as many as Stevie but he was in there too. Also Steve began receiving Grammys for his work when America recognized publicly the musical genius of African American music. Prior to that, it wasn't uncommon or unusual NOT to have a Black grammy nominee. It just wasn't done. And it was RARE...if it was done. Don't forget that the 70s was an opening decade for African American music. And for many BLACK artists...they were was no longer SEEN as playin or sangin "nigger music." Cuz why? Artists [from the 20s, 30, 40s, 50s & 60s] set the STAGE for them! Smokey being one of them. Just cuz he's not acknowledged like you want him to be doesn't mean he isn't a VITAL important contribution to our music legacy. Folks like Duke Ellington, Cab Calloway set the stage for the upcoming Motown sounds, rhythm and blues, soul music....spiritual music set the stage for Jazz, be-bop, swing...African American music is an evolution.... Although Martin Luther King didn't live to enjoy certain freedoms blacks now take for granted...doesn't mean he didn't take a crucial part in making it happen...cuz we know he did...so in that...not recognizing Smokey...that's okay. But I think you don't qualify to determine what makes a person a legend or genius in music....especially since your criteria [from what I've read so far] describing what's is a music legend or music genius in your view lacks [real life] credibility. But! It's your opinion. Got it! fro
quote:
Originally posted by Kocolicious:
fro You're entitled to see it your own way. Doesn't change the facts. Smokey won a grammy as well. Not as many as Stevie but he was in there too. Also Steve began receiving Grammys for his work when America recognized publicly the musical genius of African American music. Prior to that, it wasn't uncommon or unusual NOT to have a Black grammy nominee. It just wasn't done. And it was RARE...if it was done. Don't forget that the 70s was an opening decade for African American music. And for many BLACK artists...they were was no longer SEEN as playin or sangin "nigger music." Cuz why? Artists [from the 20s, 30, 40s, 50s & 60s] set the STAGE for them! Smokey being one of them. Just cuz he's not acknowledged like you want him to be doesn't mean he isn't a VITAL important contribution to our music legacy. Folks like Duke Ellington, Cab Calloway set the stage for the upcoming Motown sounds, rhythm and blues, soul music....spiritual music set the stage for Jazz, be-bop, swing...African American music is an evolution.... Although Martin Luther King didn't live to enjoy certain freedoms blacks now take for granted...doesn't mean he didn't take a crucial part in making it happen...cuz we know he did...so in that...not recognizing Smokey...that's okay. But I think you don't qualify to determine what makes a person a legend or genius in music....especially since your criteria [from what I've read so far] describing what's is a music legend or music genius in your view lacks [real life] credibility. But! It's your opinion. Got it! fro


You have provided no substance to back up your opinion. I provided a bit on whyI beleive Stevie is you said Smokey was singing in the 50's, as if that in itself means anything. I can tell you why I beleive Duke is the best Be bop musician , I can tell you why I think Monk the best Hard Bop, why I feel Nas is the brest, but, yuou can't provide any substance for Smokey. He isn't living legend he is simply a good musician.If I am wrong provide something that proves me so, instead of making inanae observations and attepting to degrade my credibiltiy, as if yours is somehow bullet proof.
fro You know...now that I think about it. I'm not going down this road with you. You have a right to your opinions and observation based on your perspective and lifestyle...and I don't want to get in a back and forth match cuz for one you making typos...so you may be a little annoyed with what I said and two, that wasn't the purpose of my response to you. BTW: It wasn't my intentions to degrade or minimize your view. I apologize. However, there are libraries all over the country...if you want...you can start there to find out if I'm telling you untruths. Having said that, I have refrained from engaging in unproductive convo. I can tell this interaction is going NO WHERE. And I will not waste my brain cells sharing my view where it will end being immature ranting about absolutely nothing. Not doing it. As a music history teacher, there are a few things I know and felt the need to convey to you...however you rejected it. So I'm finished with it. I teach children not grownfolks. And the information I began share, you can MOST DEFINITELY find it as I said before in the library, on the Motown and grammy websites....and in historical BOOKS. I just felt the need to defend Smokey and others like him....who have been forgotten by the children and/or grandchildren of their peers. My bad. fro
quote:
Originally posted by Kocolicious:
fro You know...now that I think about it. I'm not going down this road with you. You have a right to your opinions and observation based on your perspective and lifestyle...and I don't want to get in a back and forth match cuz for one you making typos...so you may be a little annoyed with what I said and two, that wasn't the purpose of my response to you. BTW: It wasn't my intentions to degrade or minimize your view. I apologize. However, there are libraries all over the country...if you want...you can start there to find out if I'm telling you untruths. Having said that, I have refrained from engaging in unproductive convo. I can tell this interaction is going NO WHERE. And I will not waste my brain cells sharing my view where it will end being immature ranting about absolutely nothing. Not doing it. As a music history teacher, there are a few things I know and felt the need to convey to you...however you rejected it. So I'm finished with it. I teach children not grownfolks. And the information I began share, you can MOST DEFINITELY find it as I said before in the library, on the Motown and grammy websites....and in historical BOOKS. I just felt the need to defend Smokey and others like him....who have been forgotten by the children and/or grandchildren of their peers. My bad. fro

Irrelevant tautology. I'm asking for reason. I'm not angry at all I'm looking for substance,how is Smokey a living legend.
I was in Detroit last July. While there I took the tour of motown. The tour guide said that he is being paid royalties on over 4000 songs.

In addition, Smokey not only wrote alot of Motown's songs, he arranged them too. According to the tour guide, Smokey was responsible for the music side of the business, while Barry Gordy was responsible for the operations and marketing side of Motown.

I think EbonyRose is correct in saying that Motown wouldn't have been Motown without him. If Smokey isn't I legend, I not sure what would qualify as a legend.
Originally posted by EbonyRose
quote:
Smokey is absolutely a legend. Every bit as much as Stevie, just in a different way.

According to WIKI, he has "4000 songs to his credit" that he either performed or wrote.

It's highly possible there wouldn't have been much of a Motown without him. He was an important part of the company. And even the company itself is legendary.



fro sistagirl ....thankyou! Smile hat I 'ppreciate your taking the time to share this rich information [about our culture]-which should be COMMON knowledge among everyone BLACK [especially in America]. fro
If you are a Tempts fan, Smokey wrote:

My Girl

The Way You Do The Things You Do

I'll Be in Trouble

Why Do You Want To Make Me Blue

The Girl's Alright With Me

What Love Has Joined Together

It's Growing

Who's Loving You [also sung by a young Michael Jackson]

Also.... Mary Well's famous and CLASSIC hits, Smokey wrote:

My Guy

You Beat Me to the Punch

just to name a few.... And that's only in the beginning of his magnificent career where he was still a "baby" in terms of his writing genius.

By the way.....Smokey also wrote the famous Temptation classic..Get Ready..but as I said before the 70s was a decade of musical explosion...and with that sudden change in the spirit of the times...a new voice emerged from the Temptation's persona...near the end of the sixities....a year or so after the civil rights movement...when Norman Whitfield wrote "Ain't to Proud to Beg" hitting the Billboard charts for than 8 times...making the Temptations a household name...but also ending the Smokey/Temptation song writing partnership..that pivatol moment...that shift...opened a new door...begat a new era/genre....evolving....similar as a new spirit evolving/transforming into a people now calling themselves....Black.fro
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quote:
Originally posted by Afro Saxon:
Not sure why people are glorifying Motown so much they were quite pop and real legends like Stevie and Gaye had to remove themselves from the machine to make substantive music. Motown was pop for the ignorant who thought it soul, should listen to Stax.


You do know that Stevie and Marvin Gaye are/were BOTH on the Motown label? Probably not, otherwise you would've done the research.
quote:
Originally posted by Huey:
quote:
Originally posted by Afro Saxon:
Not sure why people are glorifying Motown so much they were quite pop and real legends like Stevie and Gaye had to remove themselves from the machine to make substantive music. Motown was pop for the ignorant who thought it soul, should listen to Stax.


You do know that Stevie and Marvin Gaye are/were BOTH on the Motown label? Probably not, otherwise you would've done the research.


[QUOTE=Afro Saxon]Stevie and Gaye had to remove themselves from the machine [/QUOTE]
I think one should read and comprehend before responding.
quote:
Originally posted by Huey:
quote:
Originally posted by Afro Saxon:
Not sure why people are glorifying Motown so much they were quite pop and real legends like Stevie and Gaye had to remove themselves from the machine to make substantive music. Motown was pop for the ignorant who thought it soul, should listen to Stax.


You do know that Stevie and Marvin Gaye are/were BOTH on the Motown label? Probably not, otherwise you would've done the research.


Stevie has stayed with Motown. However, I do know that Marvin Gaye fought Motown about his music and his lyrics, even his image. Motown was souless, formulaic "music". It was pop. I agree that Stax was putting out real soulful music in those days.
quote:
Originally posted by umbrarchist:
quote:
This is rich coming from someone with Asian characters in their avatar.


Those are the Chinese Ideograms for CAT.

It is spelled MAO. That is also the Egyptian word for CAT.

So two of them are MAO MAO.

Something like MAU MAU.

um


What does that have to do with anything? I didn't ask what they mean't. You mentioned my name in regards to commenting on Americans, I thought that amusing considering your avi. I thought that was obvious.
quote:
Originally posted by nuggyt:
quote:
Originally posted by Huey:
quote:
Originally posted by Afro Saxon:
Not sure why people are glorifying Motown so much they were quite pop and real legends like Stevie and Gaye had to remove themselves from the machine to make substantive music. Motown was pop for the ignorant who thought it soul, should listen to Stax.


You do know that Stevie and Marvin Gaye are/were BOTH on the Motown label? Probably not, otherwise you would've done the research.


Stevie has stayed with Motown. However, I do know that Marvin Gaye fought Motown about his music and his lyrics, even his image. Motown was souless, formulaic "music". It was pop. I agree that Stax was putting out real soulful music in those days.


So "I Heard It Through The Grapevine," "My Girl," "I'll Be There," and "You Are The Sunshine of My Life" were soulless? Roll Eyes I think you REALLY need to do some more research before you make that statement conclusive.
quote:
Originally posted by nuggyt:
YEP!!!! All that stuff is straight up pop music. Just like if you were to listen to somebody like ....(wow I can't think of any..) Justin Timberlake today.


Its funny how ignorant many can be off their own culture. Gordy and Co. had a machine a specific way in which all songs were constructed and written in order to appeal to mass audiances , this is well documented. Smokey was a cog in that machine. Stevie Wondwer and Marvin Gaye needed to branch off from that machine to make their best records. Stevie made []Visions[/I] soon after leaving the formula devised to make those generic hits. So did Marvin previous to making Whats Going On.
I think what AfroSaxon is saying on one level is best summed up in his last post. Smokey was "great" in the sense that he was a great pop craftsman. There is a big difference between that and a great songwriter. He knew how to craft catchy pop songs that people would like. On that level, he was truly great. But in the pop realm, we often mistake skillful pop song craftsmanship with "great music," when the two rarely are one and the same.

HOWEVER, Afro Saxon, I don't get how Smokey is not a legend. You're a legend if you do whatever it is you do as phenomenally well, and prolifically, as Smokey did it.
quote:
Originally posted by Afro Saxon:
What does that have to do with anything? I didn't ask what they mean't. You mentioned my name in regards to commenting on Americans, I thought that amusing considering your avi. I thought that was obvious.


I chose to be gracious and beneficent, and considering that the Anglo-Saxons sold opium to the Chinese it shouldn't be all that amusing.

The Chinks are coming.

um
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quote:
Originally posted by umbrarchist:
quote:
Originally posted by Afro Saxon:
What does that have to do with anything? I didn't ask what they mean't. You mentioned my name in regards to commenting on Americans, I thought that amusing considering your avi. I thought that was obvious.


I chose to be gracious and beneficent, and considering that the Anglo-Saxons sold opium to the Chinese it shouldn't be all that amusing.

The Chinks are coming.

um


Thank you Sir, I did find it interesting if a bit boring.
quote:
Originally posted by Vox:
I think what AfroSaxon is saying on one level is best summed up in his last post. Smokey was "great" in the sense that he was a great pop craftsman. There is a big difference between that and a great songwriter. He knew how to craft catchy pop songs that people would like. On that level, he was truly great. But in the pop realm, we often mistake skillful pop song craftsmanship with "great music," when the two rarely are one and the same.

HOWEVER, Afro Saxon, I don't get how Smokey is not a legend. You're a legend if you do whatever it is you do as phenomenally well, and prolifically, as Smokey did it.

First, thanks, for articulating it better than I could.
I think legend is thrown around too loosely, age and time gives some respect they do not deserve. I think Smokey a good artist and a great at creating pop, but I can say I see him as a legend, his music lacked the substance that it requires to refered to as such.

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