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The point is that Islam incites Muslims to violence and hostility against non-Muslims.
There's more:

"When the sacred months are over, kill the unbelievers wherever you find them" - Quran 9:5

"O believers make war on the infidels (non-Muslims) who dwell around you" - Quran 9:123

"Fighting is obligatory for you (Muslims), much as you dislike it" - Q 2:216

"Fight against those of the book (Christians and Jews) as believe neither in Allah nor in the last day...and do not embrace the true faith" - Q 9:29

"Our Prophet (Mohammed), ordered us (Muslims) to fight you (non-Muslims) till you worship Allah alone...Whoever amongst us is killed as a martyr shall go to Paradise...and whoever survives shall become your master" - Sahih Bukhari 4:53:386

"Believers take neither Jews nor Christians for friends or helpers" - Q 5:51

"Did you (Muslims) think you would enter paradise (heaven), before Allah has known the men who fought hard and steadfast ?" - Q 3:142

So Muslims must fight in order to enter heaven !!
Peace.....

The religion of Islam requires muslims to fight those who fight with them. The Qur'an also says this "If the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God" (8:61).


You have posted verses out of the context in which they were delivered...

Tha isn't all that impressive...


Islam is by definition a peaceful religion, however "There can be no peace structured on injustice thievery lying and deciet.." (Minister Louis Farrakhan)..Therefore Islam while a peaceful religion places the requirement on the muslim to fight Satan, and his forces...However when doing this sometimes the ignorant, and the ill informed people raise arms against the faithful. When they incline toward war, the muslim must seek peace, however when fighting occurs they must fight them in the manner that they fight the muslim.

I see no problem with this...


Do you???



Kai
"Islam is by definition a peaceful religion" - Saracen

Then why is it associated with so much violence ?
Terrorism, honor killing, killing of Muslims who change their faith, wife beating (Q 4:34), amputation of limbs, rape of female captives & slaves (Q 23:1-5, 70:27-30), stoning to death of adulteress etc.

Most of what we know today as the Muslim world, was Islamized by violent Jihad.
This includes all of Middle East, North Africa, India, Pakistan, Afganistan, Southern Europe (Bosnia, Albania), parts of West Africa (northern Nigeria) etc

Even during Mohammed's time, Muslims were the obvious aggressors as evidenced by the following quotes from Islamic scriptures:

"O prophet (Mohammed) make war on the unbelievers and hypocrites and deal ruthlessly with them" - Quran 9:73, 66:9

Mohammed said: "I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah...If they do it, their blood and property are protected" - Sahih Muslim 1:31-33

"O believers make war on the infidels (non-Muslims) who dwell around you" - Quran 9:123

"When the sacred months are over, kill the unbelievers wherever you find them" - Q 9:5

The 1st battle of Islam - Badr - was provoked when Mohammed and his marauding gang repeatedly attacked Meccan trade caravans.
The Meccans only responded to protect their business, not wage a war of religious persecution as Muslim propagandists would have us believe.

Pagans are by nature religiously tolerant, hence they accomodate wide vareity of gods representing different religious views - which intolerant monotheist Christians & Muslims deride as "polytheism".
Throughout history, its mostly monotheists that initiate religious wars - Jihad, Crusades and the biblical genocidal wars to ethnically cleanse Cannaanites from their land (Deut 20:16-17).

Of the 50-60 military campaigns documented in the Islamic historical traditions, only in about 3 were the pagan Arabs the aggressors - Badr, Uhud, Trench.
Even then, the pagan Arabs were only responding to repeated unprovoked Muslim aggression as the Muslims plundered to forcefully impose Islam:

"Our Prophet (Mohammed), ordered us (Muslims) to fight you (non-Muslims) till you worship Allah alone...Whoever amongst us is killed as a martyr shall go to Paradise...and whoever survives shall become your master" - Sahih Bukhari 4:53:386

All the other military engagements described in Islamic historical traditions, were raids by Muslims on non-Muslims - Ghazwat.
Its all there in the Islamic scriptures: Hadith Sirat, Tabari.
Please read them before you mindlessly regurgitate false Islamic propaganda.
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Peace....

Naf, you make me laugh....

Muslims are far less responsible for murder and atrocities than so called Christians, Jews, and the godless.

We live in a time of terribly social unrest..War results...


Islam as revealed to the arab is only 1400 years old...People were murdering way before that...

Your thread could just as well be against Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, or even atheists...

They are responsible for alot of killing.


Kai
The issue of this discourse is religion motivated violence...
And today only Islam is guilty.

"Your thread could just as well be against Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, or even atheists" - Saracen

Neither Buddhism, Hindusim nor Atheism incites their adherents to violence.
Buddhists or Hindus who engage in violence are at variance with the dictates of their religion.
Both are pacifist and strongly object to killing of even animals...which is why they are vegetarians.

Islam on the other hand incites Muslims to violence as I have amply shown with quotes from Islamic scriptures.
Peace...

And once again you are either being intentionally dishonest, or you are refusing to see that the Qur'an incites the muslims to respond to agression with fighting. This is consistent in all traditions and faiths.


In Vietnam you had Christians fighting Buddhists..Both sides did a lot of killing..

Christians harvested human beings and transported them by the millions overseas for slavery..many died...

The Samurai were Buddhists, they killed many...The Shaolin were Buddhist they killed many...

The Indo Aryan Hindu killed many natives...The Hindus of later periods were engaged in many wars including the fighting with Pakistan...many have been killed...

Hell Hindus have nuclear devices...for what??? For killing as many as possible...

Let us not talk about the Jews and the State Of Israel....Murderers...


Now back to your accusation against the Holy Qur'an, please find the Surah which exhorts muslims to agress those who are not making war with the muslim?? If you cannopt, and all you can provide are examples of muslims being required to fight those who fight with them, then I would ask again why you wish to single out muslims in a war ravaged world where all people are fighting??


Kai
I do not know which Quran you got your info from, but let me advise you that 'some' have decided to produce "fake" Quran's to fool people like yourself. Unfortunately, these dishonest people got you as from reading your write-ups it clearly shows that you believe the crab they have fed you.

However, the final analysis is between you and your God and not you and anyone else for that matter. Therefore, it is entirely up to you to do your own research and find out the truth.

But if you honestly want to hear the truth, read below.

Let me tell you one of the misconceptions of Islam is that Muslims are violent, terrorists, and extremists. The truth of the matter is this:

This is the biggest misconception in Islam, no doubt resulting from the constant stereofyping and bashing the media gives Islam. When a gunman attacks a Mosque in the name of Judaism, a catholic IRA guerrilla sets off a bomb in an urban area, or Serbian Orthodox militiamen rape and kill innocent Muslim civilians, these acts are not used to stereotype an entire faith. Never are these acts attributed to the religion of the perpetrators.

Yet how many times have we heard the words "Islamic, Muslim fundamentalist, etc.' linked with violence. Politics in the so-called "Muslim countries" may or may not have any Islamic basis. Often dictators and politicians will use the name of Islam for their own purposes. One should remember to go to the source of Islam and seperate what the true religion of Islam says from what is protrayed in the media.

Islam literally means "submission to God' and is derived from a root word meaning 'peace'.

Islam may seem exotic or even extreme in the modern world. Perhaps this is because religion does not dominate everyday life in the west, whereas Islam is considered a 'way of life' for Muslims and they make no division between secular and sacred in their lives.

Like Christianity, Islam permits fighing in self-defense; in defense of religion, or on the part of those who have been expelled forcibly from thier homes. It lays down strict rules of combat which include progibitions against harming civilians and gainst destroying crops, trees and livestock.

NOWHERE DOES ISLAM ENJOIN THE KILLING OF INNOCENTS...

The Noble quran says:
"Fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but donot transgress limits. God does not love transgressors." (Quran, 2:190)

"If they seek peace, then seek you peace. And trust in God for He is the All-Hearer, the All-Knower." (Quarn 8:61)[/QUOTE][/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
"This is the biggest misconception in Islam, no doubt resulting from the constant stereofyping and bashing the media gives Islam" - LaToya

Why doesn't the media stereotype Hindus, Shintos, Buddhists, Atheists, Christians...as violent ?
Why is it just Islam ?

How many Hindus have hijacked an aircraft and flown it into a skyscraper...while invoking Hindu deities..like Muslims shout "Allahu Akbar" ?

How many Buddhists have strapped bombs on children to detonate among innocent civillians...while glorifying Buddha ?

How many Christians practice "honor killing" ?

True, followers of other faiths may commit crimes...but they are not motivated to violence by their religion...only Islam does.

Stop living in denial and accept the obvious fact that Islam is violent.
Although I'm not a Christian, I agree with the bible that "by their fruits you shall know them".
The fruits of Islam are all negative: terrorism, violence, intolerance, honor killing etc.

quote:
Fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but donot transgress limits. God does not love transgressors." (Quran, 2:190)


This verse is from a Meccan Sura, when the Muslims were not many and thus were weak.
After Mohammed migrated to Medina, and his followers increased (by forming alliances and sheer intimidation), he became very aggressive relentlessly attacking, subduing and even exterminating pagan Arabs and Jews.

The 9th Sura which I earlier quoted was revealed after Mohammed conquered Mecca and established himself ruler of Arabia.
It was about the last Sura to be revealed, and it unequivocally incites Muslims to violence against non-Muslims...the Quran is not arranged chronologically.

According to the Islamic concept of Nasikh (abbrogation), this violent war mongering Jihadist 9th Sura nullifies any peaceful Sura before it.
The Sura begins by informing us that Mohammed was not obliged to honor any peace treaty with non-Muslims...thus nullifing any such peace treaty:

"A declaration of immunity by Allah and his apostle (Mohammed) to the infidels (non-Muslims) with whom you have made agreements" - Quran 9:1

Suratul Tawba (9th Sura) then proceeds:

"When the sacred months are over, kill the unbelievers wherever you find them" - Q 9:5

"Fight against those of the book (Christians and Jews) as believe neither in Allah nor in the last day...and do not embrace the true faith" - Q 9:29

"O believers make war on the infidels (non-Muslims) who dwell around you" - Quran 9:123

There are numerous Quranic verses like these.
Note that these verses are not preceded by any justification for the Quran induced violence i.e. the violence is not a response to any attack.

Thus Islamic propagandists avoid verses like these, instead they mention verses from Meccan Suras which they know have been abbrogated (Nasikh), by the later violent Medinan Suras...otherwise Muslims would have to admit that the Quran contradicts itself:

"If we abrogate any verse...we will replace with another one" - Q 2:106
"When we abbrogate one verse with another, Allah knows best" - Q 16:101

As I earlier suggested, instead of mindlessly repeating the bogus "religion of peace" propaganda, read about Islam yourself.
Start with the Sirat Rasul Allah - the earliest Muslim biography of Mohammed - written by Ibn Ishaq whose grandfather was a companion of Mohammed.

Muslim propagandists don't like we infidels reading this book, because it bares all in an easy to read narrative, that doesn't require interpretation or explanation.
Unlike the Quran which is somewhat disjointed and often requires Hadith or Sirat to reveal the context and make it comprehensible.

Islamic Dawa (propaganda) prefers using the less comprehensible, disjointed Quran where they can select verses to bamboozle ignorant non-Muslims.
Reading the Quran after the Sirat, makes the former much more comprehensible.
quote:
NOWHERE DOES ISLAM ENJOIN THE KILLING OF INNOCENTS

That depends on how you define "innocent".
True Muslims do not consider we infidels innocent, which is why they think nothing of flying an aircraft full of innocent infidels into a building, or detonating a bomb among women and children while shouting ALLAHU AKBAR.
All infidels are guilty which is why the Quran insist we should all be killed unless we convert:

When the sacred months are over kill the unbelievers wherever you find them...If they repent (become Muslims) and take to prayer, let them go - Q 9:5
quote:
Originally posted by Naf:
"This is the biggest misconception in Islam, no doubt resulting from the constant stereofyping and bashing the media gives Islam" - LaToya

Why doesn't the media stereotype Hindus, Shintos, Buddhists, Atheists, Christians...as violent ?
Why is it just Islam ?

How many Hindus have hijacked an aircraft and flown it into a skyscraper...while invoking Hindu deities..like Muslims shout "Allahu Akbar" ?

How many Buddhists have strapped bombs on children to detonate among innocent civillians...while glorifying Buddha ?

How many Christians practice "honor killing" ?

True, followers of other faiths may commit crimes...but they are not motivated to violence by their religion...only Islam does.

Stop living in denial and accept the obvious fact that Islam is violent.
Although I'm not a Christian, I agree with the bible that "by their fruits you shall know them".
The fruits of Islam are all negative: terrorism, violence, intolerance, honor killing etc.

quote:
Fight in the cause of God against those who fight you, but donot transgress limits. God does not love transgressors." (Quran, 2:190)


This verse is from a Meccan Sura, when the Muslims were not many and thus were weak.
After Mohammed migrated to Medina, and his followers increased (by forming alliances and sheer intimidation), he became very aggressive relentlessly attacking, subduing and even exterminating pagan Arabs and Jews.

The 9th Sura which I earlier quoted was revealed after Mohammed conquered Mecca and established himself ruler of Arabia.
It was about the last Sura to be revealed, and it unequivocally incites Muslims to violence against non-Muslims...the Quran is not arranged chronologically.

According to the Islamic concept of Nasikh (abbrogation), this violent war mongering Jihadist 9th Sura nullifies any peaceful Sura before it.
The Sura begins by informing us that Mohammed was not obliged to honor any peace treaty with non-Muslims...thus nullifing any such peace treaty:

"A declaration of immunity by Allah and his apostle (Mohammed) to the infidels (non-Muslims) with whom you have made agreements" - Quran 9:1

Suratul Tawba (9th Sura) then proceeds:

"When the sacred months are over, kill the unbelievers wherever you find them" - Q 9:5

"Fight against those of the book (Christians and Jews) as believe neither in Allah nor in the last day...and do not embrace the true faith" - Q 9:29

"O believers make war on the infidels (non-Muslims) who dwell around you" - Quran 9:123

There are numerous Quranic verses like these.
Note that these verses are not preceded by any justification for the Quran induced violence i.e. the violence is not a response to any attack.

Thus Islamic propagandists avoid verses like these, instead they mention verses from Meccan Suras which they know have been abbrogated (Nasikh), by the later violent Medinan Suras...otherwise Muslims would have to admit that the Quran contradicts itself:

"If we abrogate any verse...we will replace with another one" - Q 2:106
"When we abbrogate one verse with another, Allah knows best" - Q 16:101

As I earlier suggested, instead of mindlessly repeating the bogus "religion of peace" propaganda, read about Islam yourself.
Start with the Sirat Rasul Allah - the earliest Muslim biography of Mohammed - written by Ibn Ishaq whose grandfather was a companion of Mohammed.

Muslim propagandists don't like we infidels reading this book, because it bares all in an easy to read narrative, that doesn't require interpretation or explanation.
Unlike the Quran which is somewhat disjointed and often requires Hadith or Sirat to reveal the context and make it comprehensible.

Islamic Dawa (propaganda) prefers using the less comprehensible, disjointed Quran where they can select verses to bamboozle ignorant non-Muslims.
Reading the Quran after the Sirat, makes the former much more comprehensible.


LOL...too long to read...but suit yourself.
Truth? Now what do you know about that? For your information, lying to yourself is more deeply ingrained than lying to others. There is nothing more frightful than this type of ignorance in action. Therefore, suit yourself homeboy! All a sensible person has to do is to get the Holy Quran and read it...the authentic Holy Quran and certainly not what you have been fed with. U are here to destroy Islam and you are making a fool of yourself as it is very apparent to those of us who know Islam that you have no clue of what you are jabbing about here. u might have the time to write up a load of crab....but errrrm, i have better things to do with my time....like I said earlier on, the final analysis is btwn you and your God and no one else....so carry on boy.
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