quote:

Originally posted by Pace Tua:
You may need a broadband connection to watch this. I'm not sure if it will work with dialup. There's a soundtrack, with text overlay.

You'll also need the Macromedia Flash Player 8 plug-in for your browser, but maybe an earlier version will work.

I just switched from IE to Firefox a few weeks ago, let's see if this works...

Wow. ...seeing those images is beyond description.

Chilling. Sobering.

I pray for the families of the Americans soldiers who have died.

I don't believe that God values these 2,000 human beings above the estimated 1,700,000 human beings who have died during the 10+ years of sanctions imposed upon Iraq by the United Nations

Here is one picture that does not seem to register on the Anti-War propaganda sites too much these days. When challenged to provide AN ANSWER - they are mostly silent.

quote:

Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:

I pray for the families of the Americans soldiers who have died.

No, CF, these men and women didn't "die", or "give their lives in service to their country" or any other benign euphemism that is presented for public consumption.

I believe that your feelings are sincere, but the word "died" implies some natural process and that is not the case here.

These men and women were killed and that is the only way to say it. They were killed because they were young and naïve, idealistic and faithful, and they still believed in America. They put their faith and lives in the hands of evil men.

And there were too few of us to stop it, too few who recognized these greedy, selfish, immoral charlatans for who they are.

From slavery to oil, they have been with us ten-thousand years. Profit is their motive and human misery and death is their trademark, for "never love had interest in their hearts."

quote:

From slavery to oil, they have been with us ten-thousand years. Profit is their motive and human misery and death is their trademark, for "never love had interest in their hearts."

Pace - How many gallons of DAMN OIL are you going to use today as you power your computer - drive somewhere or consume tomatoes that didn't grow where you live but were trucked in.


WHO "KILLED" THESE PEOPLE PACE?

Let me understand YOUR reasoning - Americans are KILLING "all of these Innocent Iraqis" with the White Phosphorous.

Who is KILLING the American soliders with the road side bombs? BUSH in both cases in your line of reasoning?

PLEASE.

When the USS Cole was blown up by bombers in a boat who KILLED THEM Pace?

The American version of the HD is a 'beast' and a mf.

Every last one of the 2000 faces listed died for absolutely n-o-t-h-i-n-g....


Fine

quote:

Every last one of the 2000 faces listed died for absolutely n-o-t-h-i-n-g....

Some people might say this about the American Civil War.

While I disagree with their statement, as I do your's I respect their right to say it just as well.

I can just imagine of some of the modern day Kneegrows were alive back then what their views on the "shifting purposes of the Civil War" would be. I wonder if they would have supported the continued OCCUPATION of the Northern troops in the South to maintain the rule of law or would they realize that just as Blacks caught hell when the Northern troops departed, so is the case with these "Freedom Fighter/Terrorists" upon the innocent people in Iraq.

quote:

Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:

Pace - How many gallons of DAMN OIL are you going to use today as you power your computer - drive somewhere or consume tomatoes that didn't grow where you live but were trucked in.

Ah, come-on, CF. Show some mercy!

This question, in one form or another, has been asked by you and answered by other people at least four or five times; Nmaginate, MBM, Isome, Noah, and others. I can't add anything to what has already been said.

Pace:

You are either a THIEF or LIAR.

You are a "Thief" in that you make note of the foreign policy of this country YET you continue to co-conspire with those who are bringing home the bounty from these foreign shores. NOW THAT YOU KNOW what is happening around the world WHY HAVEN'T YOU CULLED your standard of living, not depending on this STOLEN MERCHANDISE to live as you do? Certainly there are people in Guatemala and the Sudan who don't make use of oil as you do yet still manage to survive.


Or you are a LIAR in that you don't believe what you have typed into your computer but are making use of this rhetoric to cause a certain impact. You can't discuss the great amount of wealth that is being received by Saudi Arabia, Venezuela and UAE in exchange for the MONEY that Americans pay for the oil that we receive. Please tell me where the theft that you speak of with regard to oil is taking place?

In Nigeria maybe? Not so. The FEDERAL GOVERNMENT is receiving payment for this oil. Rather than have it to benefit the locals in the particular Nigerian state that the oil comes from it instead goes into the national budget and larger cities benefit from it. Is this an issue with the oil companies or is it with the nation and it's policies?

****
I still want you to tell me who is going to post the pictures of the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi human beings who have died under the years of sanctions where there was no war?

quote:

Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:
Pace:

You are either a THIEF or LIAR.

CF, I'm really hurt. Have you considered an anger management workshop?

Okie, dokie...

I'll try to go were no man (or women) has dared to go before me. Or maybe they have but are now making doorknobs in some mental institution somewhere.

Pleeeeeeeeeeeeze, at least get you facts right. Here are the top five exporters of petroleum to the US for the year 2004:

1. Canada - 1,616 thousand/barrels per day
2. Mexico – 1,598
3. Saudi Arabia – 1,495
4. Venezuela - 1,297
5. Nigeria - 1,078

So you see, CF, our two top suppliers aren't even any of those awful Arab state you like to rant about; they're are neighbors, north and south. And since you never mentioned Canada or Mexico, I'll just assume you don't believe I'm lying or stealing from them. Also, note that I'm giving you a pass on the word "theft" since I never used that word or implied "the theft that you speak of", at least in recent posts.

But I'll play. Okay, since you named two of our biggest importers (but 3,4,& 5 that's not too good) I get to chose the country.

Well, I'm just going to have to cut to the chase because it's a long story that involves the US Monroe Doctrine written in the early 19th century but the US didn't have the military power to enforce it then so fast forward one-hundred years and now the US has some real military clout and Pres Woodrow Wilson and his Secretary of State Robert Lansing decide "hey" this Monroe Doctrine thing looks good on paper and lets go for it but by then Great Britain was our oil stealing (sorry) rival and had oil contracts with Venezuela which by 1928 was the worlds largest oil exporter which didn't go down well with the Monroe Doctrine guys so with the support of Juan Vicente Gomez still remembered in Venezuela as one of the most brutal dictators in their history the US got rid of Great Britain and Gomez threw open the door to US oil corporations that raped and plundered the land and culture of Venezuela, stole their national treasure - oil (whoops) and left most of the population in poverty, homeless and begging on the streets and somewhere along the line the US seized the State of Panama from Columbia for some bogus reason (asked Ricardomath, he'll know) because the US wanted to build a canal there or some other reason and the US set-up a military dictatorship in Panama and never did return it to Columbia and this was all done with the blessings of US Corporations and in the meantime in other parts of the Caribbean Wilson and friends are destroying the democracies and culture of Haiti the Dominican Republic Honduras the echos of which haunt us to this day and I know you remember the US invasion of Haiti in 1994, 2004 and the list goes on an on.

Speaking of on and on, how's that for a "run-on sentence?

And did you know that Franklin Deleno Roosevelt, who personally re-wrote the constitution of Haiti in 1915 after US Marines had overrun this small, poor, island counrty for the umteenth time, bragged that he wrote it for the benifit of US Corporations? Search back through the newspapers from 2004 and you can see the results.

Now you know why I believe in Nmaginate words, fuck a Democrat, fuck a Rebublican. And of course you know, CF, that the people of Haiti are mostly of African decent, former slaves. And ya know, there's something that happens to people when you kill all of their hope. you can probably see some of them locally in homeless shelters and on the street.


So there you go, CF. I know if you're really interested and do a little digging you'll find lots of thefts and lies, but not mine.

quote:

Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:

I can just imagine of some of the modern day

Kneegrows

...

You have the audacity to copy me, after all your trash talk about me?! You have no shame, which stands to reason considering you have no integrity either! If you, as Faheem so aptly put it, take the balls of white folks off of your chin long enough, you can develop your own damn style; leave mine alone.

The music was fine, Eloy' But I would have used, 'Harem Scream by Focus from the HAmburger Concerto record'.

But the use of counting dead bodies to make a point is sick. Let these men have some peace.

Funny how the Left use's dead men pictures to make a point, but wont show millions of dead babies by abortions to make a point against the war on BLack babies in the womb.

Better still' let's use the music of 'Focus', and put it to the picures of dead babies.
Youll' be able to hear the screams.

"WE refuse to beleive this country, so powerful to defend it's citizens abroad, Is unable to protect it's citizens at home.">>>Ida WElls

quote:

Originally posted by Shadow:
The music was fine, Eloy' But I would have used, 'Harem Scream by Focus from the HAmburger Concerto record'.

Well, gee, you can just put it to any soundtrack you like, Shad. Turn off your speakers (look in your PC manual) and play Bach's Concerto No. 3 if you like.

quote:

But the use of counting dead bodies to make a point is sick. Let these men have some peace.

I didn't see anyone counting dead bodies, Shad. Watch it again. I saw caskets and faces, but bodies and counting? Ah...no! It's late, maybe you've been watching a George Romero movie and you're a little confused?

And "have some peace"? Another of those PR slogans that don't mean anything? I don't think you have to worry about these men "having some peace" now. It would have been nice worrying about them three years ago, but now? Geesh, what disingenuous hypocrisy.

And just for your stilted vision, there have been 49 women killed in Iraq, as well.

quote:

Funny how the Left use's dead men pictures to make a point, but wont show millions of dead babies by abortions to make a point against the war on BLack babies in the womb.

Gosh, wouldn't know about that. I don't see a connection but maybe you can provide more insight. Be sure and include some explanation for the inconsistency between the killing of adults and the killing of unborn children. And in case you're refering to me as the "left", you really wouldn't know what I am with your dumb-ass assumptions.

quote:

Better still' let's use the music of 'Focus', and put it to the picures of dead babies.
Youll' be able to hear the screams.

Don't know anything about those white boy bands except they all sound like screaming. And since you know all about them and enjoy this kind of thing, have at it.

Oh, BTW, nice quote but the US isn't protecting anyone abroad lately, except maybe the interests of US Corps.

Oh let me see?

2000 faces of dead men who when to war, beacuse they signed up to fight at the whim of the President.
Fact one

Second point, The use of music, where you can hear the screams of the dying is more appropitate. Don't you think?

And last, Liberals care more about the war dead. Where they folks wanted to be there, by siging up to serve, rather than pointing out the killing of babies who have no voice.

lol WHo said you were the left?
But please give me a break, WHy else would you place this web site here. TO make a point!
touchee touchee!

'Dumb ass assumptions? lol
But' comeing from a lecheur like you,you may be right? lol lol.

quote:

2000 faces of dead men who when to war, beacuse they signed up to fight at the whim of the President.
Fact one

This is not a good position to take Shadow.

WE NEED people to join the US Armed forces to execute the policies of the United States government.

We saw the GREAT BENEFIT of our men and women in uniform when the people in need after the floods and destruction on the Gulf Coast needed a helping hand.

There are millions of people who have gone through the military over the years and had life altering benefit in the way of a career, skills acquired that they could apply later and the discipline that was lacking prior to entering.

You risk making it seem like a "your bad" type scenario when it is not.

*****
AGAIN I ASK - WHAT ABOUT THE ESTIMATED 1,700,000 HUMAN BEINGS WHO DIED IN IRAQ DURING THE POLICY THAT THIS WAR REPLACED?

Mr Feedback:
It is not my intentions to show the military in a badd light. They have done the job, that I refuse to do. I left the AIr force, After I found out the real reasons.

But the fact remains, Folks who sign up, could be in harms way, if the President decides to put them there. IRAQ! And the rest of the world, that finds it self in turmoil.

My respone address only the fact that any person who signs up, does so of their own accord and must follow orders of the President.

quote:

Originally posted by Shadow:

2000 faces of dead men who when to war, beacuse they signed up to fight at the whim of the President.

Why is it you dumbass neos can't even spell or put together a coherent sentence? Oh, well.

No, not a whim, but poorly planned from the beginning with typical imperialistic motives. Give it some thought. It will come to you.

quote:

The use of music, where you can hear the screams of the dying is more appropitate. Don't you think?

You said that before, no need to repeat yourself. It only makes you appear to be an idiot because you're the one who thinks it's "appropriate". (that's the correct spelling, by the way). Try to focus on facts and drop the disingenuous "don't you think?"

quote:

And last, Liberals care more about the war dead. Where they folks wanted to be there, by siging up to serve, rather than pointing out the killing of babies who have no voice.

No, they don't. Read the paper, if you can, check with any of the hundreds of thousands of people who have protested, demonstrated, written letters, etc. about this war.

Sorry, your second sentence is so poorly worded, I can't understand it. "Where they folks wanted to be there..."? What the fuck does that mean? When you can write comprehensively, get back to me.

quote:

lol WHo said you were the left?
But please give me a break, WHy else would you place this web site here. TO make a point!
touchee touchee!

Good grief! I didn't place this web site anywhere. You might want to talk to MBM about "this web site" being placed here. If you meant, "place this link here?" (sorry, the question mark is mine, since you're unaware of meaning), yes, to make a point that has eluded you.

The point is the needless deaths of 2000 young men and women, thousands of Iraqi men and women, all for that narrow sector of people in America who own everything. Go back, watch the video again, try to disregard the faces and just before the 36pt "Lies" words appear, read the text.

And please, post some translation software along with what you write so that it's comprehensible.

quote:

'Dumb ass assumptions? lol
But' comeing from a lecheur like you,you may be right? lol lol.

I don't know what "comeing" means, I don't know what a "lecheur" is, and I don't know what "you,you may be right?" with a question mark means. Do you understand the word "remedial"?

BTW, nice move in dumping the pretentious and inaccurate quote and the white boy band. And could you jettison the repetitive "lol"? I mean, enough already! Your shit is hard enough to understand.

Pace:

Remembering that there were 2000 faces and 2000 lives is not counting dead bodies. But, speaking of screaming music, there is a song by the Cranberries called Zombie that was in a video about the Iraq war, it was just perfect for the visual imagery and I wound up getting the whole cd just to hear the one song.

_{On a side note:
Now you've had a glimpse of what the self-proclaimed independent thinkers are really like.
They're so independent, they've created their own version of English composition & spelling
and are so far removed from reality, they don't know their unoriginal ideology is a
rehash of white rightwing talkingpoints. They really can't help themselves.}

quote:

So you see, CF, our two top suppliers aren't even any of those awful Arab state you like to rant about; they're are neighbors, north and south. And since you never mentioned Canada or Mexico, I'll just assume you don't believe I'm lying or stealing from them. Also, note that I'm giving you a pass on the word "theft" since I never used that word or implied "the theft that you speak of", at least in recent posts.

Pace:

You speak ONLY of the United States. Let us talk about "The West" and the Industrialized world.

The United States, the World Bank and to some extent the United Nations has a vested interest in keeping world commerce flowing as it is today. Oil is one of the fundamental resources that must flow between countries. This same stack ranking of oil production IS NOT the same for China. China is a major supplier to the United States. If the flow of oil into China was to be disrupted this would have a major impact on the US economy. Thus the USA provides for the security of the global economy.

I have little doubt that the majority of the gifts that you will exchange during the upcoming Christmas season will have their origin in that part of the world.

Then again you MIGHT have become "true to yourself" and began to make woodcraft gifts made from your own handiwork and stopped being an abstracted hypocrite with respect to your place in the world economy as expressed by American military and economic might.

quote:

Remembering that there were 2000 faces and 2000 lives is not counting dead bodies.

Isome:

You are one interesting character. You shape your "good guy" "bad guy" view of the world by picking and choosing of the FACTS that have "your guy" to be good and "the other guy" to be evil.

I just listened to an anti-war protester who had your logic. She was against the war because of "all of the death and distruction" that the war had caused. Sadly the "pro war" guy that was debating her didn't have a clue as to how to challenge her on her hypocracy. It is clear that they were only out there out of some sense of personal cleansing and NOT for the best interests of the millions of people - who happen to live in Iraq. She would have been unable to LOGICALLY discuss how these people who had been oppressed both by their government and the sanctions that were imposed by the UN and enforced by the United States would receive relief from such oppression by doing things her way.

Somehow everything would have just "worked itself out", just like American Slavery would have. The fact that when the Northern troops pulled out of the South "too early" and Black Americans caught hell for the next 70+ years provides no evidence as to how THE ABSENCE OF WAR does not equate to peace.

Some of you are unable to get beyond your ABSTRACTIONS. You get a warm feeling in your stomach that "I STOPPED THE WAR!!!". No one is getting SHOT by American weapons. As long as you reside in the comfort of your American lifestyle you have not the slightest clue as to the societal intimidation and terror that reigns in Iraq, Afghanistan or North Korea for that matter.

In truth you only want your own little world to return to normalcy, not really caring about other people who don't have it like you. In many ways you are no different than the White Northerner who was blind to what was going on in Mississippi during the time of Jim Crow. What was going on down there did not impact your life on a daily basis and the infrequent news reports about the active oppression of Black people was dismissed as an unfortunate attribute of the "backwards people" living in that region.

As much as you seek to TAKE from America in the way of resources to improve the standard of living for yourself while you are averse to America's resources being drained for others outside of this country your own self interests are not very different from a wealthy Republican seeking to protect his own resources from marauding quasi-socialists.

I found the flash animation with the Zombie song. It's images from early in the war (2003 & 2004), quotes from this administration's officials concerning war in general and the disgusting legislation/policy pushed through that cut funding for military personnel and dependents.

:: Here it is ::

The lyrics to the song are about post traumatic stress syndrome that soldiers suffer from during and especially after combat.

Another head hangs lowly,
Child is slowly taken.
And the violence caused such silence,
Who are we mistaken?

But you see, it's not me, it's not my family.
In your head, in your head they are fighting,
With their tanks and their bombs,
And their bombs and their guns.
In your head, in your head, they are crying...

In your head, in your head,
Zombie, zombie, zombie,
Hey, hey, hey. What's in your head,
In your head,
Zombie, zombie, zombie?...

Another mother's breakin' heart is taking over.
When the vi'lence causes silence,
We must be mistaken.

It's the same old theme since nineteen-sixteen.
In your head, in your head they're still fighting,
With their tanks and their bombs,
And their bombs and their guns.
In your head, in your head, they are dying...

In your head, in your head,
Zombie, ...

This is another flash animation that includes images of torture at Abu Gharib and Iraqi victims.

It's called :: Let Them Eat War ::

quote:

But the use of counting dead bodies to make a point is sick. Let these men have some peace.

Strange... but isn't counting dead bodies a tactic of the GOP at least since Clinton. Those offended by 2000 Faces don't remember the Clinton Body Count? It was on many different rightwing websites, like this one, and this one and this one.

Hmmm... those are the whackos whose opinions are regurgitated here at AA.org by neo-cons in black face over and over again. It's convenient they don't remember what their ideological brethren did.

I am now convinced more than ever that Isome hates Bush and Republicans more than she is bound to any type of OBJECTIVE FOUNDATION for her views.

Who gives a damn about the Clinton Body count. It is more important to look at the "Cinton Body Count in Iraq" to do a comparison and contrast against POLICY EFFECTIVENESS.

No doubt that Bush's policy lead to over 2000 dead American soliders.

The HUMAN BEINGS in Iraq are now on a pathway toward a Democratically elected government. As far as the 'TALKING POINT' that "This was not the INTENTION going in". THE INTENTION OF THE SANCTIONS WAS TO CONTAIN SADDAM. THEY WEREN'T SUPPOSED TO HAVE MILLIONS OF IRAQIS TO DIE - BUT THEY DID.

The more I hear of your views Isome - the more that I realize that you need to get out and explore the REAL WORLD in order to have your IDEOLOGY reset. The day that you suffer the same fate as some of the others experience around the world - where their next meal is not certain - is the day that YOU will change and beging to APPRECIATE what you have rather than COVET what someone else has, seeking government confiscation against them to make you happy. You are sickening as a person.

quote:

Originally posted by Constructive Feedback: You are sickening as a person.

And... you have standing invitation to kiss my ass! Now go learn to read, spell, and think critically you cocksucking coon!

quote:

Originally posted by Isome:
And... you have standing invitation to kiss my ass! Now go learn to read, spell, and think critically you cocksucking coon!

I might be into that....you had better watch your back side.

My analysis of you stands.

My CRITICAL ANALYSIS of your views is that YOU WILL BE PERMANENTLY MISERABLE while remaining in this country which has a SYSTEM OF CAPITALISM that you HATE. Each day they announce the results from Wall Street you must sigh, knowing that capitalism is taking place.

Pathetic.

One day you will place your primary focus on BLACK PEOPLE rather than worrying about what white folks are doing and how you can obtain some resources from the system that has been set up. You will either particpate in this system, doing what they do OR YOU WILL STOP CONTRIBUTING TO A SYSTEM THAT YOU HATE!!!!

You can't even justify your own positions AGAINST this system while you are so much the CONSUMER of the FRUIT FROM THE SYSTEM.

New York used to belong to the INDIANS: http://www.oldandsold.com/articles14/new-york-1.shtml

The land that you live on could be a historical Indian burial ground. You didn't steal the land. The White man who moved out when they saw YOUR KIND moving in didn't steal the land, it was stolen centuries ago BUT YOU STILL BENEFIT FROM THIS THEFT. How does it feel to live on STOLEN LAND? Is the dirt still RED from the blood of the Indians that have lost their lives so that you can stay warm?

How many billions of dollars of fiber optics, routers and switches that were paid for via capitalism are in place to allow you to spout your chatter on the Internet for all to see.

WHAT DO YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE ISOME THAT CAN BE JUSTIFIED BY THE LIMITATIONS THAT YOU IMPOSE ON YOUR CONSUMPTION IN AMERICA OR YOUR PLANS TO DEPART SO THAT YOU PAY FOR NO MORE AMERICAN WMDS?

quote:

Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:

I might be into that...

My analysis of you stands.

My CRITICAL ANALYSIS of your views is that YOU WILL BE PERMANENTLY MISERABLE while remaining in this country which has a SYSTEM OF CAPITALISM that you HATE. Each day they announce the results from Wall Street you must sigh, knowing that capitalism is taking place.

Therein lies the rub you semi-literate buffoon. You are unable to critically analyze the lint from your bellybutton, let alone the facts of domestic and foreign policy. You constantly parrot the conservative viewpoint and lack the knowledge and intellect to rebutt any counterpoints.

quote:

Pathetic.

An apt description of your posts on the whole.

quote:

One day you will place your primary focus on BLACK PEOPLE rather than worrying about what white folks are doing and how you can obtain some resources from the system...

Another example of your inability to rebut facts and to stay on topic. This particular topic, oh' cocksucking one, is about the 2000 American lives lost in Iraq.

quote:

You will either particpate in this system, doing what they do OR YOU WILL STOP CONTRIBUTING TO A SYSTEM THAT YOU HATE!!!!

This is an example of your pathology! Did you know that we live in a democratic republic? If you did, you would know that it is not an either or proposition. Considering the number of people dissatisfied with the government, as it exists now, is growing, it would behoove you to get the hell outta' dodge and into a more fascist state. You'd be more comfortable among those who are unquestioning and sychophantic towards the power of the state.

Go now, you've got time.

quote:

You can't even justify your own positions AGAINST this system while you are so much the CONSUMER of the FRUIT FROM THE SYSTEM.

More pitious drivel from the perpetually open mouth of a cocksucking coon.

You're not sickening, you're worthless.

Pace:

As you undoubtedly know... the U.S. does not protect the oil supply for China, either purposely, or as a byproduct of its forays into other countries.

China is competing with the US for oil and has put out feelers to Venezuela, among other oil-producing nations.

That foolio doesn't know squat about domestic policy, let alone geo-politics!!

quote:

Originally posted by Isome:

And... you have standing invitation to kiss my ass! Now go learn to read, spell, and think critically you cocksucking coon!

Isome, I'd never want you to be pissed-off at me.

The picture of the world presented to the American public by the media, by our conformist educational institutions, by our political "leaders", has only the furthest relation to reality. The truth is buried under layer after layer after layer of lies.

This applies to every topic you can name; racism and poverty at home, international terrorism, the Middle East, any topic.

From the vantage point of the elite who own everything, this is a marvelous achievement. Under conditions of freedom, they have achieved almost total control and conformity.

CF is a good example.

quote:

Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:
My CRITICAL ANALYSIS of your views is that YOU WILL BE PERMANENTLY MISERABLE while remaining in this country which has a SYSTEM OF CAPITALISM that you HATE. Each day they announce the results from Wall Street you must sigh, knowing that capitalism is taking place.

you know what makes me cringe. the idea that 30,000 working class people will be laid of by GM. that's bad enough but when you compound that with the fact that GM didn't cut the 8% dividend it pays out to it's shareholders is quite troubling. does this bother you at all?

This site hits truth right in the face...

I have a picture of Bush made up of the faces of the slain victims {i.e. Young American men who died) of AmeriKKKa's Iraqi I will call them.

Fine

quote:

You constantly parrot the conservative viewpoint

And you spout an ORIGINAL VIEWPOINT????

Nigress PLEASE

Again - the day that you live in a world that is bound by your theories is the day that the real world will PIMP SLAP you into reality.

A few weeks ago you proposed punitive taxes against companies and the wealthy. In your mind you just don't get the fact that these companies have a choice of where they "live" just as you do. Europe which more closely follows your model of REGULATION has a 11% unemployment rate yet you and Pace are BYCHING at a 5% rate in the USA.

quote:

Originally posted by Negrological:

you know what makes me cringe. the idea that 30,000 working class people will be laid of by GM. that's bad enough but when you compound that with the fact that GM didn't cut the 8% dividend it pays out to it's shareholders is quite troubling. does this bother you at all?

The dividend is NOT the problem.

GM prior to these cuts is a company that is structured to produce 3.8 million cars but they were only selling 3.2 million. This restructuring is a long time coming.

How do you factor in all of the additional people working at the newly built Hyundia, Toyota, Honda and BMW plants that have sprung up over the years in this country? (Not to mention increases in productivity and automation)

Please also note about GM's GLOBAL EXPANSION PLANS:
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-06/08/content_337473.htm

quote:

Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:

The dividend is NOT the problem.

GM prior to these cuts is a company that is structured to produce 3.8 million cars but they were only selling 3.2 million. This restructuring is a long time coming.

How do you factor in all of the additional people working at the newly built Hyundia, Toyota, Honda and BMW plants that have sprung up over the years in this country? (Not to mention increases in productivity and automation)

Please also note about GM's GLOBAL EXPANSION PLANS:
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-06/08/content_337473.htm

are you trying to imply that manufacturing jobs are on the rise in the united states? who's going to hire these displaced manufacturing workers from GM? the general worker is being screwed for the benefit for the shareholders...that's a fact you'll be hard pressed to disprove.

don't take my word for it...here is a clip from the conservative show, scarborough country. jim cramer has forgotten more about wall street and you and i will probably ever know and this is one of the rare instances i am in total agreement with pat buchanan.

Wall St vs Main St

quote:

Originally posted by Isome:
Pace:

As you undoubtedly know... the U.S. does not protect the oil supply for China, either purposely, or as a byproduct of its forays into other countries.

China is competing with the US for oil and has put out feelers to Venezuela, among other oil-producing nations.

That foolio doesn't know squat about domestic policy, let alone geo-politics!!

Isome,

Sorry it took so long to reply to this. I have friends coming for the holidays and it's been busy.

I don't know what the hell CF meant by...

"This same stack ranking of oil production IS NOT the same for China. China is a major supplier to the United States. If the flow of oil into China was to be disrupted this would have a major impact on the US economy. Thus the USA provides for the security of the global economy."

Grammatical clarity has never been a consideration for CF, and others have experienced the same level of bewilderment as you are experiencing when reading his posts. Kevin, Nmaginate, Noah, Kweli4Real, and others have pretty much stopped responding to his posts because his posts are so disjointed, irrational, inconsistent, and just plain nonsense. So, you mustn't feel alone. This is always a problem when dealing with the least common denominator.

But there is hope. A rumor is circulating that in response to the CF problem, MBM has asked Infopop and Groupee, the makers of this BB software, to modify their code and insert a "CF" button on the "Edit Post" toolbar. When you select the "CF" button, it will automatically insert "What the fuck?" into your reply. This will save everyone a lot of time and frustration.

If I were forced to guess meaning, by "....oil production IS NOT the same for China. China is a major supplier to the United States.", I think he meant that China is a major supplier of products to the US. However, this is only a guess because as I said before, clarity is a low priority for CF.

As for "Thus the USA provides for the security of the global economy.", I have no idea what this nonsense means. All I can do is scratch my head and think "What the fuck?"

quote:

Originally posted by Constructive Feedback:

The dividend is NOT the problem.

GM prior to these cuts is a company that is structured to produce 3.8 million cars but they were only selling 3.2 million. This restructuring is a long time coming.

I'm going to try to be nice. It will be hard, but here goes.

You are so brainless, CF, that I can no longer take you seriously. Everything you say is either factually incorrect, historically inaccurate, economic nonsense, or simplistic garbage.

I thought you said you are a college graduate. How can that be? You can't even write a clear, coherent, unified paragraph expressing a single unit of thought.

You're intellectually lazy and dishonest. You don't even bother to check the validity of what you post. And if someone contradicts what you say with accurate information you either ignore them, roll out something completely unrelated, or launch one of your extraneous rants.

Instead of responding to the information that Isome posts, you attack her personally. You don't like the fact that she is SO much more knowledgeable than you are, so you write condescending, patronizing, and insulting replies to her posts that are intended to belittle her. You are such a classic asshole.

At least five people have debunked your "consumer conspiracy theory", your despicable use and reference to the oil for food program, your "Asians do it, we can too" theory, your "wonders of corporate America" crap, your "capital accumulation within our community" bullshit and your "let's generate our own jobs" nonsense. But the next time I sign on, I'm assured of seeing it all again.

Added to this, people have repeatedly asked you, "Okay, how do we do what you suggest?" Silence. "How do we generate more jobs in the Black community?" Silence. "How do we keep African American families together?" Silence. "How can someone live without being a consumer?" Silence.

And lastly, what really sucks is your hypocrisy. You never miss a chance to express your disingenuous concern for Iraqi children who have died but you completely support the illegal forty-five year embargo of Cuba that has caused so much death and deprivation. You don't give a damn about the children of Iraq unless it's to score points in an argument.

Your simple explanation of GM's problems isn't worth the coded zeros and ones that display it.

First, I thought you said you knew something about economics. You should have learned in microeconomics 101 about economies of scale. But they're not boundless. There's an optimum point beyond which size begins to cause losses and major problems. GM is beyond that point.

Second, legacy costs! GM is so large that it has a huge number of retirees who draw pensions. Add to this medical costs for aging retirees that are above average because medical costs for the elderly are high. As a bonus, add spiraling healthcare costs for a large workforce. Healthcare costs alone for GM last year were over $5B.

Third, $276B dollars of debt! The yearly interest for debt maintenance on this amount is huge.

Forth, dealer incentive programs! Starting after 9/11 they have continued almost to this day. These programs cut deep into profits.

Fifth, their cars are too expensive and the quality doesn't match the quality of Japanese and other foreign cars! American consumers are buying more Hondas, Toyotas, etc. and GM is losing market share.

Sixth, their one profitable line, trucks and SUVs are outdated and newer models should have been marketed two years ago! Sales have slipped.

Seventh, buying a 20% share of Fiat for $2.4B. LOSER!

Eighth, the Zeta "uniform platform program" for a new generation of rear-wheel drive cars! It hasn't gone well. They've already ditched the American version, for now.

Ninth, poor car design! They haven't been listening to what consumers want.

Lastly, and most important, terrible, awful, greedy, shitty management. Executives pay themselves huge salaries and bonuses, way beyond what foreign car manufacturers executives make. A Japanese auto executive makes 17 times what an assembly line worker makes. An American auto executive makes 400 times that of an assembly worker. Add to this the terrible marketing and production decisions that management has made and you have the world's largest auto maker on the verge of bankruptcy.

Oh, and the link you posted about GM expansion? It's well over a year old and in view of GM's current problems, not relevant.

DAMN PT!! Scared of you

quote:

Originally posted by MidLifeMan:
DAMN PT!! Scared of you

Me, too!

Well....that about sums it up for CF....I hope he can really see how inept he does come across with the rhetoric and tactics...after reading that summary.....there is nothing much I can or need to say............