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MIAMI – A national education assessment released Thursday shows that high school seniors have made some improvement in reading, but remain below the achievement levels reached nearly two decades ago.

The National Assessment of Educational Progress, referred to at the Nation's Report Card, tested 52,000 students in reading and 49,000 in math across 1,670 school districts in 2009.

Students scored an average of 288 out of 500 points in reading comprehension, two points above the 2005 score but still below the 1992 average of 292. Thirty-eight percent of 12th grade students were classified as at or above the "proficient" level, while 74 percent were considered at or above "basic."

"Today's report suggests that high school seniors' achievement in reading and math isn't rising fast enough to prepare them to succeed in college and careers," U.S. Education Secretary Arne Duncan said.

Cornelia S. Orr, executive director of the National Assessment Governing Board, which oversees development tests, said she was encouraged by the fact reading scores had gone up in recent years.

"And we'd like it to get back up to the level it once was," she said.

The trouble advancing student reading skills extends across grade levels. Reading scores for fourth and eighth grade students in 2009 were only four points higher than in 1992.

The No Child Left Behind law championed by President George W. Bush set a goal for every student to read and do math at their grade level by 2014, but the national assessment scores indicate students are still trailing significantly behind. In 2009, 33 percent of fourth grade and 32 percent of eighth grade students scored at the proficient level in reading.

In a statement, Duncan noted that President Barack Obama set a goal for the United States to have the highest proportion of college graduates in the world by the end of the decade, and that in a survey that accompanied the reading and math test, 86 percent of seniors said they expect to graduate college.

"They'll only succeed if we challenge and support them to raise their academic performance and offer them the financial support they need to pay for college," Duncan said.

He said he is confident that goal can be reached with the efforts the administration currently has under way, including providing $40 million in Pell Grants, supporting states as they raise academic standards, and investing in efforts for states to create data systems to help track student performance.

The scores released Thursday also show that a stubborn achievement gap remains across racial and ethnic groups. There was no significant change in the score or gap in reading for black and or Hispanic students since 1992. White and Asian students both scored higher than they did in 2005.

Asian students scored an average of 298 points in reading in 2009, higher than any other group. It was the first time since at least 1992 that a minority group outperformed white students on the test.

Orr said further analysis, including a look at course-taking pattern, is needed to further explain the advancements Asian students have made in recent years.

Math scores rose from 150 to 153 between 2005 and 2009. The test was significantly changed in 2005, so a comparison with scores from earlier years was not applicable.

Orr said the improvement between 2005 and 2009 was significant.

"The math framework was made increasingly challenging, but students continued to improve their mathematics performance," Orr said.

Bob Wise, president of the Alliance for Excellent Education and the former governor of West Virginia, said many of the students graduating without high school reading and comprehension skills will need to take remedial courses in their freshman year of college. He cited federal statistics showing that students in remedial reading courses are three times more likely to drop out of college before earning a bachelor's degree.

"If you end up in the emergency room with an EKG that shows this kind of flat line, someone would be trying to shock you back to life," Wise said in a statement. "The federal government needs to take the same immediate action for the nation's older students."

The results of students in 11 states that volunteered to participate in a pilot state program were also released.

Five states had higher scores in both subjects than the national average: Connecticut, Iowa, Massachusetts, New Hampshire and South Dakota. Two states, Idaho and Illinois, had scores that were higher in reading but not significantly different in math. New Jersey had a higher math score but a similar national reading score.

Three states scored lower in both subjects: Arkansas, Florida and West Virginia.

Florida Education Commissioner Eric Smith said the results indicate there is "much more work ahead," but that he was confident recent reform efforts, along with the state's Race to the Top win, will help increase scores in the years ahead.

 
 BLACK by NATURE, PROUD by CHOICE.
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  This is another wake-up call for Blackfolks!  Another wake-up call is foreign students come to America and ace reading and math requirements.  I understand math....but!  reading?  How can a foriegn student beat a native student  i.e. our kids in ENGLISH?????  As I said in an ealier post, we are in DEEP trouble.  I mean DEEP!  And I hate the fact that some NEW parents are more concerned about "getting a man" or trickin a woman than preparing their children for what is to come for their FUTURE.  These parents are brainless and committing self-genocide.  I have words I call them....but!  I won't say them cuz I'm a focking lady....but! I'm just sayin
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How can a foriegn student beat a native student  i.e. our kids in ENGLISH?????  As I said in an ealier post, we are in DEEP trouble.

For one, most schools in foreign countries have not been taken over by politics and corporations.  Secondly, most foreign schools still use the same teaching methods that our schools used to use in the first place.  Third, I think a lot American students are just burning out because our school systems are trying to cram too much down their throats without affording the student the what they need to be able to comprehend, process, memorize information before testing.  Fourth, our student are often in school districts that give exit exams, etc., that are generic and often have little or no relationship to what was taught all year.
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I understand math....but! reading? How can a foriegn student beat a native student i.e. our kids in ENGLISH?????
Knowing how to read and being proficient at reading are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

When I was in high school I worked with another Black student in the camera department of a department store.  He would bring a Bible every time he came to work.  When things were slow he would read his Bible.  He would constantly read out loud.  I noticed once that he was saying some word I never heard of.  When I asked him about it and looked at the book he was pronouncing the B in subtle.  He was saying "SuB tl" instead of "suh tl".

Plus there is a matter of vocalizing versus subvocalizing versus not doing it.    It is possible to read 1000 words per minute but not if you are repeating the words in your mind.  If someone actually mouths the words they may do fewer than 100 words per minute.

So do Black kids that know how to read only do it when they have to or have they found things that they want to read which actually exposes them to new ideas that they won't encounter in the 'hood.  Knowing how to read and using it for mind expansion are different things.  If those foreign kids read faster on a timed test then they will score higher.  When someone is just reading with no time limit we still say they can read.

I gave a Black woman the book Wild Seed by Octavia Butler.  She gave it back saying it was too weird and that she didn't like the cover.  We don't use reading for mind expansion so the world is leaving us behind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgeyVE3NHJM

Xum
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There is also the matter of these foreign students are probably mostly from the top 5% in their countries.  Plus this is a matter of statistics.   It doesn't mean they beat ALL Black students just that their average was higher. Statistics are funny.

Thank you, Xumbrarchist!

 It's kinda like how American has traditionally compared everything about middle class whites to everything about the poorest, least educated African Americans; never or rarely middle-class whites to middle-class African Americans.
Sunnubian wrote:  For one, most schools in foreign countries have not been taken over by politics and corporations.  Secondly, most foreign schools still use the same teaching methods that our schools used to use in the first place.  Third, I think a lot American students are just burn out because our school systems are trying to cram too much down their throats without affording the student the what they need to be able to comprehend, process, memorize information before testing.  Fourth, our student are often in school districts that give exit exams, etc., that are generic and often have little or no relationship to what was taught all year.


  Sorry my sista...totally disagree!  Whatever the REASON or excuse....in my view, as a child advocate working with children EVERYDAY...children are NOT burned out....many do not have the discipline to comprehend, process or memorize information....but!  They know EVERY word to a rap song!  And...they know how to do that "booty" dance! 


Although I agree that some schools do give exit exams cuz why?  Schools [for our children particularly] have become LAZY too.  Foreign students KNOW what it feels like NOT to have govt support to a better life.  That's why they come to America in the first place.  I don't know too many foriegn schools who use the SAME methods as we do...if so, there WOULD be no reason for students there to come here.  We are going into the SECOND generation of black children failing...for no good reason in my estimation.  If parents and community leaders CARED as they should, there would be an abundance of after school programs, tutoring centers and neighbor volunteers targeting what we need to do as a community to prepare our children.  But!  From where I stand....I don't see MANY and those I do see are overburdened and under staffed.  But!  I'm just sayin
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Knowing how to read and being proficient at reading are TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. When I was in high school I worked with another Black student in the camera department of a department store. He would bring a Bible every time he came to work. When things were slow he would read his Bible. He would constantly read out loud. I noticed once that he was saying some word I never heard of. When I asked him about it and looked at the book he was pronouncing the B in subtle. He was saying "SuB tl" instead of "suh tl". Plus there is a matter of vocalizing versus subvocalizing versus not doing it. It is possible to read 1000 words per minute but not if you are repeating the words in your mind. If someone actually mouths the words they may do fewer than 100 words per minute. So do Black kids that know how to read only do it when they have to or have they found things that they want to read which actually exposes them to new ideas that they won't encounter in the 'hood. Knowing how to read and using it for mind expansion are different things. If those foreign kids read faster on a timed test then they will score higher. When someone is just reading with no time limit we still say they can read. I gave a Black woman the book Wild Seed by Octavia Butler. She gave it back saying it was too weird and that she didn't like the cover. We don't use reading for mind expansion so the world is leaving us behind.
  True dat my brotha it is two DIFFERENT things......but!  My point is as you elegantly demonstrated in your bible story....foreign students have huge problems pronouncing English...understand the similarities and dynamics in our words,  for example with words like i.e. their, there....and yet they still ACE the reading requirements.  Sumthing's wrong when students live in an environment and have trouble reading about things they've been raised with in that environment.  



And this is why English classes for middle and high school students are soooo important.  Cuz part of the problem is that our children do not have critical reading skills...and by the time they get to college[if they go] they do not acquire the tools to do the work[in courses outside of English classes].  So.  Whose fault is that? Look!  I have to literally bribe some children to read.  I have to reward them extensively...just to get a reading i.e. book report from them.  Many are not getting that practice in their schools.  Why is that?  And then folks are SHOCKED that these children have poor reading skills.  GTFOH!  Really.  And in my view, this is the main REASON why black kids are behind.  Kids need to start as early as preschool to build an appetite for reading.  You can't stuff it down their throats....in middle and high school...its too LATE by then.  Personally I just think some people are UNREASONABLE when they bring children in the world and then it's sooo easy.  The work begins the moment that baby take his first breath.  Many folks have it twisted...children are not TOYS.  They are human beings....their developmental stages are a step by step process...and there are NO short cuts.   If you miss one thing in the development of a child....in that one thing you have to start at the beginning....and there's no other way around.  So.  As children grow and become teenagers....if they don't have reading skills....and by that time some may even hate reading....if you are one who cares and can do sumething about it.....my advice is to "trick" them into wanting to read and their interest will evolve-I promise.  Otherwise, this disadvantage for our children will continue to be an endless struggle for them to keep up.  But!  I'm just sayin 
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True dat my brotha it is two DIFFERENT things......but! My point is as you elegantly demonstrated in your bible story....foreign students have huge problems pronouncing English...understand the similarities and dynamics in our words, for example with words like i.e. their, there....and yet they still ACE the reading requirements.
But that is the entire thing about reading and speaking and understanding language.  I think a lot of Black people focus more on sound as if that is the word than on the meaning of the word.  I remember Black girls making a BIG DEAL of the word LADY when I was in grade school

So I went an got a dictionary and looked it up.

lady == sophisticated woman

sophisticated == knowledgeable of the ways of the world

Girls that were really dumb trying to put on airs as though they were LADIES were pretty funny but it was safer not to say so.  ROFL

We often behave as though people are supposed to have a particular emotional reaction to a word rather than deal with its EXACT MEANING.

I was in a fast food joint years ago and while standing in line I was reading a magazine about hi-fi equipment.  A Black man came up to me and started talking about stereos  and he kept saying Luxman, Luxman.  He must have said it 5 times.  I was standing there looking at him like he was crazy.  I don't care about a brand name.  It's just a word.  What are the specs on a particular model.  They might make one model that is great and another that is junk.  Getting fixated on the word is nonsense.

But there, their and they're are obviously three different words when you read them but they are the same sound when spoken so actually they are easier to read.  That is a case where phonics breaks down because they mean completely different things.  A friend of mine taught English in a Chinese school.  Plenty of Chinese can read English very well but they can't pronounce it worth a damn.

It is the meaning that is most important.  Some words can even be pronounced multiple ways and all be correct.  Kids need to read a lot so they need to find stuff they want to read and preferably gives them more than just reading practice.  That contains good ideas and useful information.  If it is ONLY ENTERTAINING it is somewhat of a waste.

Xum

Xum wrote:  But that is the entire thing about reading and speaking and understanding language.  I think a lot of Black people focus more on sound as if that is the word than on the meaning of the word.  I remember Black girls making a BIG DEAL of the word LADY when I was in grade school

So I went an got a dictionary and looked it up.

lady == sophisticated woman

sophisticated == knowledgeable of the ways of the world

Girls that were really dumb trying to put on airs as though they were LADIES were pretty funny but it was safer not to say so.  ROFL

We often behave as though people are supposed to have a particular emotional reaction to a word rather than deal with its EXACT MEANING.

 Xum….my brotha.  You know blackfolks are the MASTERS of tearing up a word and turning it into their own form of dialect[and we won't talk about what happens when "accents" are added).  Zora Hurston did intensive research[in the 20s and 30s] on our dialect usage  of phonetic spelling and spoken words we stutter through trying to speak the King’s English.  Unfortunately, this poor usage has sabbotage [some of ] our ability to know or understand the right and correct way to utilize them i.e. English.  Cuz after all it was NEVER our true language.  So when you have foreign students who can barely speak let alone write the English language excel literally fast passing children who are born and raised here and who supposedly speak this language every day and yet cannot "ace" a test designed specifically for them, then again I project…..we are in deep trouble.   And who’s fault is it?

Okay.  Since I asked.  I think it’s the parents and teachers’ fault for not insisting that our children speak the correct English…especially while in school.  But will or does that happen?  Nope.  It’s different with white kids….cuz English is their native tongue…..but!  For African American children it is a whole different story….especially if parents are NOT speaking correct English themselves or demanding that their children speak it and lastly, it is totally shameful if teachers don’t requirement all students to speak correct English during class hour.  If they[both]  did it would NOT be so much of a struggle during test time. But!  They don’t. And we are where we are now. 

I was in a fast food joint years ago and while standing in line I was reading a magazine about hi-fi equipment.  A Black man came up to me and started talking about stereos  and he kept saying Luxman, Luxman.  He must have said it 5 times.  I was standing there looking at him like he was crazy.  I don't care ing about a brand name.  It's just a word.  What are the specs on a particular model.  They might make one model that is great and another that is junk.  Getting fixated on the word is nonsense.  But there, their and they're are obviously three different words when you read them but they are the same sound when spoken so actually they are easier to read.

Nope!  Not for children who don’t read often.  Not to children who are given these type of words together on spelling tests and are asked additionally to write a definition for each one.  And to be fair…it all depends what side of the country and the standard/goal of the school where you will see this.  Now  I’ve had to correct these kinds of words all the time from written stories and essays.  Cuz for some students, if it sounds like it, that’s what they will write.  And they give it to me all proud as all get outta here cuz they’ve completed a masterpiece, and when I start using my RED pen, their smiles turn upside down.  They don’t understand why the word they used is the incorrect usage for what they are trying to say.  Then I tell them  “go get your pocket dictionary and find out why it is wrong.”  They return with a “Oh I didn’t know that.”   So if they are NOT constantly exposed to the right way of writing and pronouncing English their chances of passing an English test [compare to a foreign student who has studied his eyes out] are slim to none.

That is a case where phonics breaks down because they mean completely different things.  A friend of mine taught English in a Chinese school.  Plenty of Chinese can read English very well but they can't pronounce it worth a damn.

But again…my brotha.  They know what the “word” means…..right?  And they know the difference/meaning of each word….right?   Well….some of our children, once again, struggle with this simple concept….everyday as is why they continue to fail in this area-an area in which they SHOULD excel in but don’t.

It is the meaning that is most important.  Some words can even be pronounced multiple ways and all be correct.  Kids need to read a lot so they need to find stuff they want to read and preferably gives them more than just reading practice.  That contains good ideas and useful information.  If it is ONLY ENTERTAINING it is somewhat of a waste.

True dat my brotha.  Excellent perspective.  I totally agree.   But it has gone to the entertainment arena….instead to the educational forum.  And I got one better:  that’s just the nature of the beast.  And so since I am desperate for my students to get it…I will use an “entertainment” concept to get the attention I need.  Once I obtain the necessary attention[cuz let’s face it these high tech children are BORED in school] that’s when I introduce them to the “right stuff” which contains and encourages good ideas and multiple ways to understand the complexities of the English language-written and spoken.    But in my view, this must done in a simple way….otherwise you will lose them before they are able to absorb the essentials necessary to identify correct English.   And storytellin’ has been the lure for children since preschool.  So if it worked then, I don’t see where it could “hurt “ now.    We need to DO sumthing.   I always say “don’t shoot the messenger” in that if some form of “entertainment” encourages the thinking dynamics of Black children….and leads them to achieving higher test scores… then so be it.  Cuz storytelling or fable telling has ALWAYS be a [initial] part of our [African] culture in the learning process to life[and life lessons].  So…why should it be any different now?   Cuz massa’s way of teaching [for our children] is not working.   If you asked me, it never did.  But!  I’m just sayin

I bought one yesterday.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/0...-reader-this-fall-t/

Overall I am impressed with the hardware.  The software is glitchy.  I haven't gotten the wireless to connect yet even though my OLPC connects wirelessly just fine.

But if you can get free books in text format, the Wordpad program works fine as a book reader.  You can select fonts and change the size of the font and just scroll down to read the book.  It plays MP3s but the volume is low.  The OLPC plays louder though the speaker phone on my cell phone plays louder than that.  I would rate this thing poor on sound thouhg I have tried to listen to netbooks that were even worse.  My Archos PMA400 is worse.

The keyboard is easier to type on that the OLPC but the OLPC is waterproof.  Spill your coffee on this thing and you have a dead computer.  It is not the silly looking green of the OLPC but I had to go to three stores to not buy a red one.

What I wanted to know most was if it would play Flash videos.  I copied over a bunch of Stargate Atlantis episodes and found most of them work.  Apparently the creator can choose which codex to use to compress the video and audio but the FLV extension remains the same.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wZugqi_uCg

So if a kid could find stuff interesting to read in text format that just happened to be educational then this device could do the job.  Properly used it is worth the $100 but if you are trying to play status games with your computer this thing would make you a loser.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files.../24161-h/24161-h.htm

But remember that Bill Gates started Macro$cam with computers that were no this good.  A program is a program is a program.  It is not the computer it is the brain using the computer.

We need a programming environment to put on this thing.

Is there a Python for Windows CE?

Xum
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Whatever the REASON or excuse....in my view, as a child advocate working with children EVERYDAY...children are NOT burned out....many do not have the discipline to comprehend, process or memorize information....but!  They know EVERY word to a rap song!  And...they know how to do that "booty" dance!

Thank you. That was a very honest and factual observation. Two days ago, I was talking to good friend of mine who teaches in Oakland. She said exactly what you said. She commented about the apathy many of the children have towards academics. Yet, they know all the rappers, the lyrics to their music and detailed activities of the seeming unlimited mindless realty shows on BET, MTV and VH1. She has taught in San Diego and Scotland before. Now that she is teaching in Oakland, she is seeing the worst of it.

One of the things she consistently laments about is the dysfunctional Negro subculture. She has story after story of virtually non-existent parental involvement with the children and the bizarre behavior of some of the children. Sometimes the behavior is violent. I have told this particular story before and I don’t mind telling it again. About a year ago, she was teaching at a black charter school that was only concerned with the numbers and the dollars that come with it. One of the students (a second or third grader, I can’t recall) hit the teacher in the mouth because she told him to stop disrupting the class and to sit down. He punched her in the face and the woman fled the class room with a bloody mouth. She went to the nurses office and was so shaken, she refused to return to the class room. My friend had to step in and take over the class. The little boy was taken to the principal’s office. She said less than an hour after the incident –he was returned to class room as if nothing happened.

Well, after that successful display of power, he went right back to disrupting the class and bullying the other children. She said she tried to discipline the boy and get him to stop disrupting the class. But the boy angrily and defiantly told her, “If you keep messin’ with me, I’ll punch you in the mouth just like I did Ms. Williams!” Now, I ask the question, how many of you would have been able to do what this child did? How many of you at such a young age would have confidently punched a teacher in the mouth because she was interfering with your bullying? How many of you would have been returned to class after to doing so -within an hour?

One more thing, she told me of numerous encounters with children with very bizarre and strange behavior which is often times violent. She said the school refuses to do anything and the parents are MIA. In fact, my sister pulled her kids out of school back in Ohio and moved to Florida because of this very reason. I remember her telling me how the parents were indifferent to the education and behavior of their children and the lack of any discipline in the schools (and yes, the schools are predominately inner city black). She did not want her children being exposed to this social pathology and decided to bail. Real talk…..

One of the things she consistently laments about is the dysfunctional Negro subculture. She has story after story of virtually non-existent parental involvement with the children and the bizarre behavior of some of the children. Sometimes the behavior is violent. I have told this particular story before and I don’t mind telling it again. About a year ago, she was teaching at a black charter school that was only concerned with the numbers and the dollars that come with it. One of the students (a second or third grader, I can’t recall) hit the teacher in the mouth because she told him to stop disrupting the class and to sit down. He punched her in the face and the woman refused to return to the class room.

OMG!  I’m not surprised not one bit.  And I tell you right now, that child has been exposed to violence.  Otherwise, he wouldn’t have had the nerve to be so bold and disrespectful.  He’s seen this done…..probably in his own home.  And the school was wrong in NOT calling the po po and having him placed in handcuffs in front of the whole class. The lesson:  You don’t put your hands on ANYONE….especially a teacher.  If you act like a criminal….you gonna be treated like one.  Bottom line.  I am a no nonsense instructor.  I do not play that.  Me and homeboy would have been rollin on the floor.  Cuz why?  I have the RIGHT to defend myself---and then I would have call the police and then the parents.  No time outs.  The next step: suspension or expelled from school entirely depending on my mood.  Cuz why he assumed if I did nothing, he got away with it…and the monster is therefore created and there’s no controlling him after that.   

My friend had to step in and take over the class. The little boy was taken to the principal’s office. She said less than an hour after the incident –he was returned to class room as if nothing happened.

Big mistake.  The principal should have responded in a more appropriate manner that would ensured safety for the teacher and the rest of the classroom.  In fact, I would have filed a complaint against the principal for NOT utilizing the resources available to migrate this situation and for jeopardizing my life.  Folks in this field, especially principals, asst principals, deans, counsels etc are TRAINED to act accordingly in dangerous circumstances such as this.  But for me this wouldn’t have happened on my watch.  Cuz when my students passed the classroom threshold I tell them IMMEDIATELY who’s boss.  At that moment they have the opportunity to make the conscious decision to walk out.  If they stay, then it’s what I say that rule.  Period.  No discussion.

Well, after that successful display of power, he went right back to disrupting the class and bullying the other children. She said she tried to discipline the boy and get him to stop disrupting the class. But the boy angrily and defiantly told her, “If you keep messin’ with me, I’ll punch you in the mouth just like I did Ms. Williams!”

At that moment I would take that as a threat.  I would quickly stop the class.  Leave.  Call the police[without the principal’s approval cuz I am in danger] and have them escort him handcuffed in FULL view of his classmates outta the room.  Cuz why?  I’m not a friend.  I’m not on your level.  I am an adult and you are threatening me?  Okay.  I gotta posse too.  And they have GUNS.  They are called the POLICE.  End of story.  

 Now, I ask the question, how many of you would have been able to do what this child did? How many of you at such a young age would have confidently punched a teacher in the mouth because she was interfering with your bullying? How many of you would have been returned to class after to doing so -within an hour?

Never.  When I was in grade school, we got the paddle.  That wooden paddle with holes in it.  Or we stood in a corner for an hour.  Or we were sent home.  In my school days, the staff didn’t play.  And the principal?  No one wanted to EVER go there.  Cuz going to the prinicipal office was a no no. Cuz you KNEW what was gonna happen.   And the staff?  Ah!  They meant serious business too.  As do I today.

One more thing, she told me of numerous encounters with children with very bizarre and strange behavior which is often times violent. She said the school refuses to do anything and the parents are MIA. In fact, my sister pulled her kids out of school back in Ohio and moved to Florida because of this very reason. I remember her telling me how the parents were indifferent to the education and behavior of their children and the lack of any discipline in the schools (and yes, the schools are predominately inner city black). She did not want her children being exposed to this social pathology and decided to bail. Real talk…..

I don’t blame her.  She gotta protect her children cuz these days school staff are not gonna.  They don’t feel it’s their responsibility anymore and is why there are soooooo many violent students taking over school grounds with guns.  These children nowadays have NO regard or respect for authority.  None.  So you gotta do what you gotta do to protect your own.  Which you shouldn't have to since your taxes pay these educational snobs big bucks to do their JOB...but do they?  Hell nawl!  Which is a tragic state of event for all black children in this country cuz they have no real professional competent to teach them and their non participating parents? Well...they are no where around[where you can see 'em] ..... until it's time to pick the kids up....but! 

 

 

Last edited by Kocolicious
"many do not have the discipline to comprehend, process or memorize information....but!  They know EVERY word to a rap song!  And...they know how to do that "booty" dance!"
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Which are symptoms of burn out.

I do understand that America has some of the most disrespectful, spoiled rotten, and half-raised children in the world, but adults often in charge of children often forget when it comes to OUR children that, regardless to their behavior, they are still children. 

Most school systems want children to act like little adults all day in class and the first time the child acts like a child, the child will be punished or labeled with some disorder.  It is hard for an adult to sit in a hard chair for six hours a day, let alone young children.  There are a lot of adults who often overreact to a child's acting out and/or misbehaviors.  Maybe it's different where you are from, but down south, damn near anything a little Black child does in the way of misbehaving is often exaggerated or used as an opportunity to place negative information in the child's record, while the same actions are over-looked and/or not put in the child's record if they are White. 

I know that some kids are beyond your basic misbehavior and acting out, but I think that each incident should be viewed individually/case-by-case, by the age of the child at the time, and that children should not be punished unduly or unfairly, mistreated, mislabeled, etc., for "disciplinary problems" that in reality are merely children being children.

Also, I have never understood why each school has a "school counselor," yet, this person who is qualified to counsel children is almost always used only as an academic counselor.
Sunnubian wrote:  Which are symptoms of burn out.
 

How is that?  Discipline is not a symptom of being burned out.  Nor is processing and memorizing information/data/knowledge.   As a matter of fact, discipline is what ANYONE would needs in order to be success in life period.  So I don’t understand how not being “discipline” can be deemed as a symptom to behaving badly.  I think this is the catalyst for us….cuz discipline requires participation and focus.  And a lotta black kids don’t wanna to do that.  And is why they are failing continuously in school.   

I do understand that America has some of the most disrespectful, spoiled rotten, and half-raised children in the world, but adults often in charge of children often forget when it comes to OUR children that, regardless to their behavior, they are still children. 

True dat my sista!  But!  In my view, it isn’t that adults forget….many are JUST plain lazy when it comes to raising their children.  Many parents not only want the easy way out…they are often totally unprepared when the children arrive and cuz as we all know raising children isn’t rocket science; yes it’s work but it entails a lotta common sense than anything else….cuz folks been having children for millions of years[no manual to refer to]….but!  You would think the way our children are brought up today….it takes more than what I just mentioned above to rear them but realistically it doesn’t.   New parents just have to show up willing to do the work necessary! But many don’t.  And we have what we have today in many of our children’s attitude towards education and doing the right thing.  What’s sad though, they didn’t ask to come here and they cannot…….I repeat….they cannot raise themselves.  Impossible!      


Most school systems want children to act like little adults all day in class and the first time the child acts like a child, the child will be punished or labeled with some disorder.

True.  And in my day, teachers were teachers cuz they wanted it to be….in fact, educators were educators because many felt it was their calling.  Not anymore.

 It is hard for an adult to sit in a hard chair for six hours a day, let alone young children.  There are a lot of adults who often overreact to a child's acting out and/or misbehaviors.

I dunno my sista.  I guess if you took the way I raised my children in todays world….many folks would probably think I overacted when my children misbehaved….cuz I was whipping that butt!  Bottom line.  And as a result, I had well-mannered children who knew how to behave in public…..fast forward to today, those same children are self-sufficient, productive and  independent adults today.  And that’s what any parent wants…….right?  So you have to pick your battles when your goal is to raise your children to be prepared in the adult world.

 Maybe it's different where you are from, but down south, damn near anything a little Black child does in the way of misbehaving is often exaggerated or used as an opportunity to place negative information in the child's record, while the same actions are over-looked and/or not put in the child's record if they are White.  

You’re probably right in this area….but!  My folks came from the South.  Used to be…children who were raised in the South were the BEST behaved children cross the board….cuz they were brought up to say “yes sir, yes Ma’am, no sir, no ma’ am”-had chores and were responsible for the younger children, didn’t talk back and had a respectful attitude.  Now I know that thousands of years ago…but!  The dynamics of raising wherever you live is the SAME…even for today.

I know that some kids are beyond your basic misbehavior and acting out, but I think that each incident should be viewed individually/case-by-case, by the age of the child at the time, and that children should not be punished unduly or unfairly, mistreated, mislabeled, etc., for "disciplinary problems" that in reality are merely children being children.

That's hard to do nowadays with youth violence....in determining each incident individually...cuz as a school you don't want to make that mistake and that child comes back the next day and shoot everybody....cuz it does happen much too often.  So you really have to be very careful.  And truly it comes down to what is defined as “disciplinary problems.”  Cuz many of today’s children are in violent gangs, are dealing drugs, are in abusive environments, are abandoned by their parents/family, many are in foster care-a place that kicks ‘em to the curve once they turn 18 years old.  And..we have the internet, twitter, facebook, cell phones and other components that wasn’t in place when I was raising my children….but!  As I said above the dynamics of raising children is the same wherever you live AND whatever “era” you’re currently in.  Cuz traditionally parents have always been the "boss" of their children until they[the children] reach the age of maturity…but!  You have a lotta of immature parents today i.e. children having children….and those who don’t need children having children.  And you have parents with a total different perspective on how to rear children and when they have a roddy/unfocused child....the first thing they wanna do is give them ritalin[sp].  But I tell you I don’t believe in ADD or AHDD…nope!  To me that’s just a ploy to continue doping our children and not deal with what is going on with them emotionally, academically and socially.  And parents who chose to do that in my view are committing a form of genocide….cuz those drugs enables some children to NOT use their natural ability to learn-which takes away the vital tools necessary for adulthood.  This is what I believe from experience of seeing so many  young adults[who took this drug as a child] struggle cuz they don’t have the skills to take care of themselves and therefore are homeless and disconnected from the community as we speak.

Also, I have never understood why each school has a "school counselor," yet, this person who is qualified to counsel children is almost always used only as an academic counselor.

That’s cuz the school system is all twisted and many administrators and staff only think about THEMSELVES!  That’s the bottom line.  Not too many folks are out there strictly to educate children…..nawl!  It’s all about the almighty dollar.  And many counselors do NOT have the adequate training to counsel those children who are penned out of control.  If these individuals were given the proper techniques in handling so-called misbehaved children, there wouldn’t be so much violence on school grounds throughout America.  But!  I’m just sayin  

How is that?  Discipline is not a symptom of being burned out.  Nor is processing and memorizing information/data/knowledge.   As a matter of fact, discipline is what ANYONE would needs in order to be success in life period.  So I don’t understand how not being “discipline” can be deemed as a symptom to behaving badly.  I think this is the catalyst for us….cuz discipline requires participation and focus.  And a lotta black kids don’t wanna to do that.  And is why they are failing continuously in school.   

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        And when one is burned out, one has no interest in processing or memorizing information/data/knowledge.  Lack of discipline is not always a symptom of behaving badly.  When one is burned out, one has no interest in participating or focusing.  A lot of Black kids may sit in classrooms each day and be bored out of their minds because not only is it important that you have the discipline it takes to ‘process and memorize information, it is also important to be able to deliver that information in a way that captures and retains your audience’s attention and leave them intrigued enough to want to learn about or more about the subject of the information you have delivered.

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True dat my sista!  But!  In my view, it isn’t that adults forget….many are JUST plain lazy when it comes to raising their children. 


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        To be honest, I really don’t think the type of parents you have have as much to do with how well a child does in school as people have been led to believe via the media, pop psychology, and everyone that writes a book about all the evils of Black, minority and/or poor children. 

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Many parents not only want the easy way out…they are often totally unprepared when the children arrive and cuz as we all know raising children isn’t rocket science; yes it’s work but it entails a lotta common sense than anything else….cuz folks been having children for millions of years[no manual to refer to]….but!  You would think the way our children are brought up today….it takes more than what I just mentioned above to rear them but realistically it doesn’t.   

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        I am in absolute agreement with you on this. The main problem, IMHO, is how damn near everyone has surrendered their natural instincts and common sense to every pop psychologist that writes a book, every opinion editorial in the media, every talk show host that has a t.v. show and every professional that works in a field in charge of children that often cannot think outside of a book they studied in college long enough to use the common sense that it takes to see each child as an individual.

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New parents just have to show up willing to do the work necessary! But many don’t.  And we have what we have today in many of our children’s attitude towards education and doing the right thing.  What’s sad though, they didn’t ask to come here and they cannot…….I repeat….they cannot raise themselves.  Impossible!  

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        Now this is something that often parents are at fault at, but just as often are not.  Americans have a bad habit of trying to fit everything, every action, every reaction, and every individual into the same peg.  The truth is, that often, the parents have done all the right thing, do teach their children right from wrong, manners and the importance of discipline, and some of these same children will still go to school and show out in class, not show interest in their work, lie about their homework or just simply not work at their best potential.  Often the child that is the most disruptive, the most and the most disinterested is the most intelligent, the smartest, and the one with the most potential. 

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True.  And in my day, teachers were teachers cuz they wanted it to be….in fact, educators were educators because many felt it was their calling.  Not anymore.

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        This is, as I have alluded to above, is one of the major problems with so many children not doing as well as they could or would in school.  There are too many people teaching children that should be in another line of work or teaching adults.  I think you either have what it takes to keep an audience of children captive or you don’t; and people who were born to teach children do have it. I do know that when I was in school, by the time I reached high school, I had a couple of teachers that were like tranquilizer darts to my brain.  Every time the teacher would open her mouth to speak, I would feel myself drifting off; it took every fiber of my being to not go to sleep in their class, while I would be as alert could be with any of my other teachers.  So, some of my teachers had it, but two of them didn’t.  Now this was in high school, I can only imagine what affect either of these teachers would have had on my interest, potential and discipline if I had had them in elementary school (where I think you actually learn everything you will need to know to be any good in high school in the first place).  I think a lot of our children are experiencing what I went through in high school with those two of my teachers in high school, while I had some level of maturity to deal with this excruciating bordem, our children, that may be experiencing the same thing at an elementary age, don’t.

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I dunno my sista.  I guess if you took the way I raised my children in todays world….many folks would probably think I overacted when my children misbehaved….cuz I was whipping that butt!  Bottom line.  And as a result, I had well-mannered children who knew how to behave in public…..fast forward to today, those same children are self-sufficient, productive and  independent adults today.  And that’s what any parent wants…….right?  So you have to pick your battles when your goal is to raise your children to be prepared in the adult world.

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        I was raised the same way and most people from my generation.  However, each generation after me, it seems, are not only often raised differently, disciplined differently or not disciplined at all, they are often being raised by parents who have bought into all of the “any spanking is abuse,” or whatever pop psychology is popular at the time regarding raising children, or they are too stressed out working two or three jobs to feed the children, or are too stressed out having no job, and still have to fee the children, and yes, with each generation, the mothers party more, both parents party more, one or both parents are often consumed with themselves more so than they are with their children.  At the same time these generations of children are exposed to more and more, possess numerous gadgets and games that re-program their brains at an early age to only respond to or have an interest in things that happen in a nanosecond, which just kills any discipline they have been taught in the first place (to have discipline, you also have to have patience).

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You’re probably right in this area….but!  My folks came from the South.  Used to be…children who were raised in the South were the BEST behaved children cross the board….cuz they were brought up to say “yes sir, yes Ma’am, no sir, no ma’ am”-had chores and were responsible for the younger children, didn’t talk back and had a respectful attitude.  Now I know that thousands of years ago…but!  The dynamics of raising wherever you live is the SAME…even for today.

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        That used to be true where children from the south are concerned.  Now, I am shocked that every time I turn around I’m seeing, hearing, or just knowing how disrespectful a lot of young people are today.  Don’t get me wrong now, you will still find a lot of young people down south that are respectful, or at least show respect to adults, but it can just as often be a front.   

 

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That's hard to do nowadays with youth violence....in determining each incident individually...cuz as a school you don't want to make that mistake and that child comes back the next day and shoot everybody....cuz it does happen much too often.  So you really have to be very careful.  And truly it comes down to what is defined as “disciplinary problems.”  Cuz many of today’s children are in violent gangs, are dealing drugs, are in abusive environments, are abandoned by their parents/family, many are in foster care-a place that kicks ‘em to the curve once they turn 18 years old. 

 

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        And most of the kids that do not do well in school are not only or even mostly kids who’s parents/family abandoned them, or who are in gangs, or dealing drugs, or in foster care. etc.; that’s the thing.  If the majority of the children that don’t do well in school fit in one or all of those categories, the failure rate would be easily explainable.  Since the majority do not, then you have to look at the possibility of a disconnect between the student(s) and the teacher(s) and/or teaching methods.  

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And..we have the internet, twitter, facebook, cell phones and other components that wasn’t in place when I was raising my children….but! 

 

        And these are all distractions to our children’s psychi, distractions that are long lasting, i.e., keeps the child distracted, disengaged long after its use.  Some doctors theorize that video games, too much t.v., other electronics, re-wire a child’s brain to need for everything to happen fast, not last long, be over in minutes, and teaching methods used have very little room for impatience.  It may not necessarily be that the child is undisciplined, it could be that the child’s brain is being has been re-programmed by neo-activities, toys, gadgets, etc., as quickly as the parents are instilling discipline in the child.

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As I said above the dynamics of raising children is the same wherever you live AND whatever “era” you’re currently in.  Cuz traditionally parents have always been the "boss" of their children until they[the children] reach the age of maturity…but!  You have a lotta of immature parents today i.e. children having children….and those who don’t need children having children.  And you have parents with a total different perspective on how to rear children and when they have a roddy/unfocused child....the first thing they wanna do is give them ritalin[sp].  But I tell you I don’t believe in ADD or AHDD…nope!  To me that’s just a ploy to continue doping our children and not deal with what is going on with them emotionally, academically and socially.  And parents who chose to do that in my view are committing a form of genocide….cuz those drugs enables some children to NOT use their natural ability to learn-which takes away the vital tools necessary for adulthood.  This is what I believe from experience of seeing so many  young adults[who took this drug as a child] struggle cuz they don’t have the skills to take care of themselves and therefore are homeless and disconnected from the community as we speak.

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        The basics of raising a child is the same regardless of the ‘era’ you are raising the child in, however, the dynamics that are influencing the child’s psychi are not the same with today’s children.  I also understand that sometimes the age of the parent(s) or the mentality of the parents come into play, but children have been born to young parents or mothers since forever really, and when I was a child, you could not tell the difference between a child that was born to young parent(s), single parents, two parent homes in any classroom in the school. Children from a parent(s) with mental problems, 99% of the time could not be noticeably too different from the one who were not in a school setting.  I too believe that doping so many children up in school is wrong and probably should be illegal, especially since the vast majority should not be on these drugs in the first place.  It appears to me that instead of insuring that we have teachers that have the temperament to teach children in the first place, or having the teachers that don’t have themselves ‘medicated’ to be able to deal with what is most times normal adolescent behavior, those in control of our schools have decided to sacrifice the lambs.  In other words, those in charge of our schools have thoroughly convinced countless parents that there is something ‘wrong’ with their child, their child’s behavior, rather than admit that there are too many teachers in our schools that do not possess the temperament to teach children, and some who do not like children (or certain children), that in our school people who fit those categories are in such a position of power over our child’s life, outlook on life, and future.  Also, children often ‘act out’ to express frustration that they do not know how to verbalize in the first place.  I would wager that a great deal of children that have ‘behavior’ problems are reacting to the prejudice that they are sensing from their teachers and/or those in their charge for so may house of a day, five days a week.  Because evidently there are a lot of people, even Black people that have a prejudice against certain children the moment the child steps into their class or school or charge.

 

When our children do not do well in school we cannot continue to always blame the parent, or always blame the teacher, we have to look at a multitude of things that could be having an effect on the child and find out what exactly is interfering with the child’s ability to learn and/or stay engaged.  We need to stop doping up adolescent behavior and stop labeling it as some type of disorder merely because it annoys the teacher.  Anyone that has the temperament to be a teacher in the first place would not be so annoyed as to write damaging information in the child’s school record, collaborate with other faculty to have the child’s parents convinced that the child needs to be doped up.

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Hey, I'm just saying, too. 


Last edited by sunnubian

And when one is burned out, one has no interest in processing or memorizing information/data/knowledge.  Lack of discipline is not always a symptom of behaving badly.  When one is burned out, one has no interest in participating or focusing.  A lot of Black kids may sit in classrooms each day and be bored out of their minds because not only is it important that you have the discipline it takes to ‘process and memorize information, it is also important to be able to deliver that information in a way that captures and retains your audience’s attention and leave them intrigued enough to want to learn about or more about the subject of the information you have delivered.




Very  true my sista.  This is NOT the fault of the student…moreso the incompetence of the teacher.  Cuz as a teacher you are consistently assessing your classroom to ensure everyone’s getting it.   So there is constant interruptions in your delivery of knowledge cuz your goal is for each student to digest what he or she had just learned easily and without confusion.  And we know just by national test scores, this is NOT happening in the classroom with our kids.

 To be honest, I really don’t think the type of parents you have have as much to do with how well a child does in school as people have been led to believe via the media, pop psychology, and everyone that writes a book about all the evils of Black, minority and/or poor children

Well I have to disagree with ya on this my sista.  Cuz parents set the stage for how their children will interact initially-unless something else is going on psychologically/neurologically. Cuz no [mentally and physically normal] child is born with this ability [to misbehave] already built in.  It [can sometimes be] a learned/ modeling mechanism.  

 Now this is something that often parents are at fault at, but just as often are not.  Americans have a bad habit of trying to fit everything, every action, every reaction, and every individual into the same peg.  The truth is, that often, the parents have done all the right thing, do teach their children right from wrong, manners and the importance of discipline, and some of these same children will still go to school and show out in class, not show interest in their work, lie about their homework or just simply not work at their best potential.  Often the child that is the most disruptive, the most and the most disinterested is the most intelligent, the smartest, and the one with the most potential

We may have to agree to disagree on this too.  Cuz I see it completely different.  And I’m not saying ALL parents are guilty of this…..but!  In my experience, and if I did a survey just on students/parents I have been in contact with[over the years], the outcome would STILL indicate that the most disruptive/out of control students [may] have some sort of dysfunction going on in his/her home life.  Be it with parents, or sibilings, relatives or a family friend,  there’s an uneasy dynamic unraveling that can most times cause children to act out in school when they feel they are powerless or have no voice in their own home[if they have one] situation.  And there can be a possibility that there is a mixed match relationship with teacher and student....but!  That occurence can't possibly HAPPEN throughout the student's life.  As I said...sumething else is brewing with children having trouble in school.  I mean one teacher, or maybe two teachers.....but!  Not all teachers "one" student come into contact with through his academic years can be the cause of him failing over and over again.  Impossible.  It has to be a combination of things.  Or an occurrence that caused a spiral downward effect...but!  If parents are paying attention, this should be noticed and rectified....but!  It's clearly not.  

This is, as I have alluded to above, is one of the major problems with so many children not doing as well as they could or would in school.  There are too many people teaching children that should be in another line of work or teaching adults.  I think you either have what it takes to keep an audience of children captive or you don’t; and people who were born to teach children do have it. I do know that when I was in school, by the time I reached high school, I had a couple of teachers that were like tranquilizer darts to my brain.  Every time the teacher would open her mouth to speak, I would feel myself drifting off; it took every fiber of my being to not go to sleep in their class, while I would be as alert could be with any of my other teachers.  So, some of my teachers had it, but two of them didn’t.  Now this was in high school, I can only imagine what affect either of these teachers would have had on my interest, potential and discipline if I ha had them in elementary school (where I think you actually learn everything you will need to know to be any good in high school in the first place).  I think a lot of our children are experiencing what I went through in high school with those two of my teachers in high school, while I had some level of maturity to deal with this excruciating bordem, our children, that may be experiencing the same thing at an elementary age, don’t.

 My sista…..you’ve made my case.  Thank you!  Teachers who need to be teaching don’t and those who are teachers shouldn’t teach.  It’s as simple as that.

 I was raised the same way and most people from my generation.  However, each generation after me, it seems, are not only often raised differently, disciplined differently or not disciplined at all, they are often being raised by parents who have bought into all of the “any spanking is abuse,” or whatever pop psychology is popular at the time regarding raising children, or they are too stressed out working two or three jobs to feed the children, or are too stressed out having no job, and still have to fee the children, and yes, with each generation, the mothers party more, both parents party more, one or both parents are often consumed with themselves more so than they are with their children.  At the same time these generations of children are exposed to more and more, possess numerous gadgets and games that re-program their brains at an early age to only respond to or have an interest in things that happen in a nanosecond, which just kills any discipline they have been taught in the first place (to have discipline, you also have to have patience).

 I can’t debate with ya there.  Exactly!

 Don’t get me wrong now, you will still find a lot of young people down south that are respectful, or at least show respect to adults, but it can just as often be a front.   

 Bingo!  A front.  Children learn from modeling those they are in close contact with.  And I believe you stumble on something there. But! As children that’s what they do.  When I was a child, I understood quickly that I talked to adults differently than I did my peers.  And I act differently too.   But somewhere this distinction got muffled and mixed altogether where children today don’t understand or are unable to determine social boundaries.  It’s sad cuz this is where the importance of upbringing comes into play which prepares one for the outside world. 

 And most of the kids that do not do well in school are not only or even mostly kids who’s parents/family abandoned them, or who are in gangs, or dealing drugs, or in foster care. etc.; that’s the thing.  If the majority of the children that don’t do well in school fit in one or all of those categories, the failure rate would be easily explainable.  Since the majority do not, then you have to look at the possibility of a disconnect between the student(s) and the teacher(s) and/or teaching methods.  

I’m not a betting woman….but!  I’ll you bet a dime against a donut right now [if we did a nation research on this stigma]that at least one of the categories I mentioned have a lot to with many children’s current misbehavior in school.   And to be clear…..it’s MORE going on than just a disconnection and inadequate teaching methods with teachers/administrators in my view.  If more parents were involved in the day to day operations of their children’s education, then this issue would have been rectified long before it became a national concern. But to be fair….it’s beyond just being BORED in school, my sista.  Especially for the majority of students as you elegantly pointed out….cuz!  If the majority AND those students in the categories I forementioned are all struggling through boredom in school and as a result are all failing collectively……then sumthing else terrible and disturbing is going very wrong not only in our school system but with how our children are being prepared academically AND socially.  This is a wake –up call for everyone including parents and teachers who believe they are not the foundation of what is going downward with our children.

 And these are all distractions to our children’s psychi, distractions that are long lasting, i.e., keeps the child distracted, disengaged long after its use.  Some doctors theorize that video games, too much t.v., other electronics, re-wire a child’s brain to need for everything to happen fast, not last long, be over in minutes, and teaching methods used have very little room for impatience.  It may not necessarily be that the child is undisciplined, it could be that the child’s brain is being has been re-programmed by neo-activities, toys, gadgets, etc., as quickly as the parents are instilling discipline in the child.

But who gives/buys these children these gadgets to distract, disengaged or incite boredom?   

When our children do not do well in school we cannot continue to always blame the parent, or always blame the teacher, we have to look at a multitude of things that could be having an effect on the child and find out what exactly is interfering with the child’s ability to learn and/or stay engaged.  We need to stop doping up adolescent behavior and stop labeling it as some type of disorder merely because it annoys the teacher.  Anyone that has the temperament to be a teacher in the first place would not be so annoyed as to write damaging information in the child’s school record, collaborate with other faculty to have the child’s parents convinced that the child needs to be doped up.

I couldn’t agree with you more.  But someone’s recommending evaluation of the child….and someone’s taking the child to the doctor and ultimately the diagnosis is determined and the medication is prescribed.  Where is the intervention for our children that says may be doping them is NOT the answer?   Where are the questions regarding the mind-altering side effects that will stay with them….long into adulthood?  Where is that child advocate….asking “wait a minute is this the ONLY solution?”  I don’t hear anyone….do you?

Great discussion my sista!  I am takin in every word you’re sayin.  Wish more folks were as passionate about this disturbing issue with our young.  It takes all brain power to find solutions to this on-going problem-and it’s not just one solution…it can be many.  Look!  I don’t profess to have all the answers, cuz obviously I don’t….otherwise I would be a VERY rich famous woman and mostly all black children would be brilliant academically and socially.  Cuz why?  I have the “answer.”  But! I don’t have all the answers…cuz I am just one person with one brain….however what I am sayin…though is we NEED more round table dialogue as what you and I have engaged in.  Cuz one answer will probably not work in all cases.  Yet….we need to start somewhere.  And now!  But! The real question is:  Will we?  So far I don't see an answer.  But!  I’m just sayin 

Last edited by Kocolicious
{{{  A lot of Black kids may sit in classrooms each day and be bored out of their minds because not only is it important that you have the discipline it takes to ‘process and memorize information, it is also important to be able to deliver that information in a way that captures and retains your audience’s attention and leave them intrigued enough to want to learn about or more about the subject of the information you have delivered.   }}}

And as for my usual suggestion for for this.  I am sure it will not work with ALL kids but it might do a lot for some.  Read this:

Omnilingual by H. Beam Piper

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/19445/19445-h/19445-h.htm

That one story incorporates archeology, linguistics, chemistry and some history.

Science fiction made science more interesting than all of the science teachers I ever had.

I have been talking about netbooks for a while but I hadn't bought one.  I already had a laptop and netbooks are really just little laptops even though for a year now they have been more powerful than my laptop.  But I finally bought the CVS Sylvania "netbook".  It is really a "smartbook" not a netbook.  But it works fine as a book reader and I have lots of books that weigh more than it does.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgGSlz_-34E

I can bring that story up just fine and it is more readable than a paperback book.  So we have the how to read but it is a matter of deciding what to read and getting it installed and pointing kids at it.  I think expecting White people to create good curricula for our kids is absurd.  First of all they don't intend to do it for most White kids.  The power structure depends on the control of the distribution of RELEVANT knowledge and most White people are not supposed to have much knowledge.  The grade schools are designed to KILL children's curiosity.  In the name of discipline of course.

Relevant knowledge is POWER irrelevant knowledge is a waste of time.

How much of schooling is making people pay to have time wasted?

The sci-fi books helped me ignore the teachers and learn anyway and have something to think about in class so I could easily pretend to be attentive to their boring drivel.  If you had given me a $99 CVS Sylvania loaded with sci-fi and SCIENCE when I was in grade school you would have had a hard time getting it away from me.

I have loaded Stan Gibilisco's Teach Yourself Electricity and Electronics
onto it and it displays fine with the pictures.  It appears the search function does not work however.

Hey, it's $100.  The printed book costs $35.

Loaded with good information one of these things would be justifiably worth hundreds of dollars.  When are we going to start using them properly?  And get kids to use them properly.

Xum
GOOD POST Xum,

I would only like to add that a practical reason for replacing student books with netbooks, readers, etc., would be to alleviate all the back problems that these children are going to have as adults carrying a book bag that weighs almost a much as they do; to school, to several classes a day during school, back home from school.

Besides, if students were issued netbooks or readers, etc., and with wifi, they could have so much more on any subject at their disposal along with whatever text book they need to pull up at the time.
{{{  alleviate all the back problems that these children are going to have as adults carrying a book bag that weighs almost a much as they do; to school, to several classes a day during school, back home from school.  }}}

Yeah, that is another problem.  I see grade school kids with backpacks that could hold half of the kid.  I didn't carry enough stuff to fill one of those when I was in high school.  But these cheap computers have screwed up our society to a degree.   The books are more wordy with less information.

Those sci-fi novels I read in the 60s were about 150 pages.  Back then a 300 page book was really long.  Now a 300 page book is short.  But are there any good important ideas in those 300 pages?  NO!  They call it world building and character development.  NO SCIENCE!

Oh yeah, when I use the CVS Sylvania with this site it says, "Your browser is not supported.  Please upgrade to a modern browser."  This forum service just does the same old stuff in more fancy ways and doesn't even tell us how many times a thread has been viewed.  Just like the fancy watered down books.

Xum
I was over on the Wikipedia site the other day, and apparently, this is their 'donation drive' period.  I didn't click on the 'personal appeal' from the founder ... but instead clicked on one that was from a college student in Africa to read what he had to say.

He wrote that he was an "editor" ... which is one of the two ways to "donate" to the site.  The other is with money.  As an "editor", he donates his time, free of charge, and takes the responsibility of checking facts, grammar, spelling and making sure the article(s) in question is accurate, factual and correct.

He further went on to explain that the reason why this is important is because school children in his country (and I forget which one it was!) can't afford books (some are 5-10 versions out of date, can't do their homework without up-to-date information and are failing their courses because of it.  However, if the school has access to the Internet, they can (and presumably do) use Wikipedia to get the correct information to complete their studies.

He considers it a mission to make sure that what's presented on Wiki gives those kids the information they need. So ... he edits articles.  And made a plea for others to do the same or to donate money to keep the website going.

It was a pretty compelling appeal, as he used to story of a teen-aged girl, who wakes up at 4:00 a.m. to fetch water to bathe her younger siblings before she starts her long walk to school to be there at 6:30 a.m.  But because her textbook is old and outdated, she can't complete her school work and has been forced to drop out.

Educating children is a difficult task ... no matter where you are.  But, in a country with as much wealth as the USA, it should be criminal to have test scores as low as our current students are registering today.

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