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Tagged With "Racist "Christians""

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Re: Why do souls come to Earth?

Empty Purnata ·
Hmmm...that's probably due to Augustinian influence in Christian thought. Modern Christianity took Augustine's philosophy that the material world is something of a "curse", and that physical bodies are crass and disgusting. Many Christian basically view the body as little more than a prison for an idealized fluffy, wraith-like soul. That's why I find Tantric Buddhist philosophy on the soul so refreshing. It goes beyond this Cartesian Dualism of "body" and "soul", and it describes the body...
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Re: **Constantine: The Father of Christianity[With Just A Hint of Paganism!]??**

Fine ·
Empty Purnata: I am aware of St. Augustine's African Ancestry and his wisdom/fame. How does this thread relate to the subject of Constantine and Eusebius...? Do you allude 'to the mindset' that St. Augustine gives the Church validity? I personally don't care how many black catholic christians were inspired by the 'lying lore of christianity'!!!
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Re: Afrocentric versus Eurocentric

Fine ·
Yes. ------------------- Dusty Elbow: We "can" very well talk about Americas slavery and there is alot to talk about: Connecticut Military Law, 1784--forbade blacks from serving in military First Naturalization Law, 1790--congress declared US a white nation Federal Militia Law, 1792--only whites could enlists in peacetime militia Fugitive Slave Law, 1793--protected slaveholders rights, discouraged blacks from running away Virginia Migration Law, 1793--forbade free blacks from entering that...
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Re: Tolerance of Intolerance?

HonestBrother ·
Kresge, that's a good question. I suppose the immediate context is Melesi's accusation that I don't give his posts a fair reading. But to be fair, it goes far beyond that. As a single non-Christian, who has just moved to a new town, living in the Bible belt, in a place where the first thing people ask you when they meet you is "Where do you go to church?", in a place where even in the online dating community the women all declare "You can't love me if you can't love Jesus", I frankly find...
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Re: Law, Morality, and Christians

Nikcara ·
I am a Christian, I am heterosexual, I think gays should be allowed to marry, I think women have the right of choice and affirmative action is desparately needed because children are still being left behind. Law in the USA is not about morality it is about power and money. It was law that enslaved my ancestors using the Christian Bible, it was law that separated the races under Jim Crow using the Christian Bible , it was law that cause the police to sick dogs on citizens because they were...
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Re: Tolerance of Intolerance?

HonestBrother ·
I just read Nikcara's post on another thread. And I'm encouraged to be reminded that not all Christians are alike. So I do apologize if I've offended anyone but you Christians have to realize that if you're black and a non-Christian, you're DOUBLY marginalized. Life is hard enough.
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Re: Law, Morality, and Christians

Melesi ·
nikcara, You have more than one point in your post. I will try to address them, but I hope you can forgive me if I miss one or two. Do we have differing definitions of "Christian"? What is a Christian to you? Yes, Christians do differ on issues, but they differ usually because they've started from different points of view. They have different conclusions about the world to begin with, thus they have certain differences in their worldviews, which is part of the point that I made originally.
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Re: Tolerance of Intolerance?

kresge ·
I am grieved to hear about your experience. I spent 12 years in academia as a college/university chaplain. Before my theological training, however, I obtained a B.S. in physics and mathematics, and an M.A. in physics. So I think that I might be able to relate to your situation from several positions. With respect to the AA community, I think that science and mathematics, little priority seems to be given to these disciplines. There seems to be much more of a connection with arts associated...
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Re: Law, Morality, and Christians

Empty Purnata ·
Alright, here's the reality of the land: America was founded on Englightenment Principles (the ideas in our Constitution are borrowed from the French Constitution and inspired by Englightenment Age philosophy on liberty, freedom and justice). There is a radical Seperation of Church and State. Church cannot regulate religious beliefs as laws, and the State cannot regulate religious beliefs. This is mutally beneficial, it provides a safe, bias-free (in theory) system that does not make...
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Re: Law, Morality, and Christians

HonestBrother ·
What in the Bible forbids the owning of slaves?It's acknowledged as a practice in both the New and Old Testaments. And nothing I'm aware of forbids the practice per se. You might argue that the Bible would enjoin Masters to treat their slaves well. But what forbids them from owning slaves to begin with? See the Pauline Epistle Philemon, in which an escaped slave is encouraged to return to his owner and the owner is entreated to be forgiving. Nothing there condemns slavery. If anything,...
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Re: Law, Morality, and Christians

Melesi ·
EP, Yes, John Locke and the idea of universal rights is very European, though they did not spring full-grown from the head of the French Revolution, especially that part of it that so quickly degenerated into the Reign of Terror and was well criticized by such as Edmund Burke, a supporter of much of the American philosophy. But this couldn't have arisen without the ground of the Christian faith. It's no wonder that the Magna Carta was forced on King John in England. It was a first step...
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Re: Law, Morality, and Christians

HonestBrother ·
What in the Bible forbids the owning of slaves?It's acknowledged as a practice in both the Old and New Testaments. And nothing I'm aware of forbids - or even condemns - the practice per se. You might argue that the Bible would enjoin Masters to treat their slaves well. But what forbids them from owning slaves to begin with? See the Pauline Epistle Philemon, in which an escaped slave is encouraged to return to his owner and the owner is entreated to be forgiving. Nothing there condemns...
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Re: Law, Morality, and Christians

Melesi ·
HB, Yes, the northern abolitionist movement included people who were not Christians, but that really is beside the point. Wiliam Wilberforce in England was a Christian who almost a hundred years before the American Civil War spearheaded the British abolitionist movement. Christians here were encouraged by his success and worked very hard to abolish slavery all through the country. It's what led to our Civil War, you'll remember. They worked with many who were not Christian, but they worked...
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Re: Law, Morality, and Christians

HonestBrother ·
I had already written and you just came back by saying (essentially) that "if you read closely" Paul encourages Philemon to treat Onesimus as a brother - while sending Onesimus back to share brotherly love with his owner . I.e. you only elaborated on what I already said. You didn't contradict it one bit. So why should waste my time responding when there was nothing new to respond to? Your reply was lame. That's not a dodge. That's my opinion. Agree or disagree. I get so sick and tired of...
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Re: Law, Morality, and Christians

HonestBrother ·
He could command if only he wanted?: Sheesh! How tragic! So let me ask: Why didn't the Christians of the 19th century follow St. Paul's example? That's what you advocate right? Do as the Bible commends? So why didn't 19th century Christians follow that example??: wish the slaves well, bid the masters regard their slaves as brothers, and remark that they could command if they wished it but wait instead for it to come from the heart???
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Re: Law, Morality, and Christians

HonestBrother ·
Repeat:
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Re: Law, Morality, and Christians

Melesi ·
Come now, HB, those words can be used against you and be quite accurate. They shoudn't be, though, because they're not an argument, only a questioning of motives and asserting conclusions that you do not and cannot know. I'm reading nothing into the text. Look at the words. They are there. Once more: +++++++++++++++++++++++++ 8Therefore, although in Christ I could be bold and order you to do what you ought to do, 9yet I appeal to you on the basis of love. I then, as Paul"”an old man and now...
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Re: Law, Morality, and Christians

HonestBrother ·
I've had all the experience I need. Anyone who needs to go running to an ancient book, fine-parsing every single line, to tell them what to think about any given issue is a simpleton. I find that distasteful. If the shoe fits wear it.
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Re: Law, Morality, and Christians

HonestBrother ·
Once Again. Maybe you'll answer this time:
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Re: Law, Morality, and Christians

Melesi ·
You haven't been listening. William Wilberforce and those many English Christians who followed him did follow Paul's example. The Christians in the American North did follow Paul's example. It was the basis for their activism for abolition. The "Christians" you really are talking about are the Christians in the American South, a minority of Christians, by the way. Many more fought for slavery's end than defended it pre-war. The reason teh Southeners defended slavery was because of the pride...
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Re: Law, Morality, and Christians

HonestBrother ·
Melesi: YOUR ORIGINAL CLAIM WAS THAT CHRISTIAN ABOLITIONISTS OPPOSED SLAVERY BECAUSE OF THE BIBLE. I only questioned the basis for that claim. I'm not demanding or even expecting that the Bible should forbid or condemn slavery. My point was that because the Bible does NOT condemn or forbid slavery there is a very weak basis for your original claim that Christians opposed slavery because of the Bible. Circles, Man. You're going in circles again. This is why I don't like having these...
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Re: Bible = The Word of God?

nubian1125 ·
I believe jesus is the word of GOD.Yeshua/Jesus has to be taken out of false light that he is being held in. Black christians take and get alot of heat. But i believe the foundation of that is because of the image of Yeshua, in our hearts we don't see him as one of us, one that looked like us or been through what we been through. When in fact he is as close to us as any as our brothers and sisters are today. Moses said that GOD WILL RISE UP A PROPHET LIKE MYSELF, when the people asked moses...
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Re: What About The Debt Blacks Owe To America?

SistahSouljah ·
Yeahhhhhh they just chose to participate in the crimes against humanity first. Makes me wanna vomit.
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Re: Zionism

UppityNegress ·
No, but then again I'm an atheist and I view the Bible (Old Testament and New Testament) as the folklore and rhetoric of Bronze Age tribesmen in the Middle East. While I think it's a valuable piece of literature, I don't hold it in any higher esteem or moral value than I do the Vedas or the Scandinavian sagas. No! Of course, my answer to this would be no, but then my answer for this question wouldn't matter b/c I don't accept the premise that the Jewish/Christian god exists. Even working on...
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Re: Zionism

kresge ·
I think that this is minor component of the Zionist argument, at least as originally concieved. Many, perhaps most Zionist are secularists. Further, many ultra Orthodox Jews, though extremely religious, have been staunchly anti-Zionist. The real impetus for Zionism was WWII and the Holocaust and the feeling that the Jews needed a safe haven from future persecution. Palestine was one option, but there where many, including areas in South America. This mess is of recent vintage, the creation...
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Re: Danish Newspaper And Mohammed Cartoon

Nmaginate ·
And that's the rub as they say. Also, there is nothing comparable in terms of Christian symbols, as KRESGE suggested. Considering what KRESGE said, what's to come of this: I support their right to censure (express harsh criticism of the picture) but not to censor (control the press, speech, artistic expression). Free expression to my mind is integral to democratic society. So, basically, people are allowed to completely, purposely and repeatedly desecrate and violate everything that's sacred...
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Re: Danish Newspaper And Mohammed Cartoon

kresge ·
I think that the ethnicity (or historical accuracy" of the image is irrelevant as to its sanctity or sacredness. They are entirely different things. As to there being no comparable term in Christianity, again, I think that there are people who view the image of Christ in a comparable fashion. There is not the same restrictions on human images in Christianity as there is in Islam, but know Christians who where angry enough with the movie The Last Tempation of Christ to call in bomb threats to...
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Re: Danish Newspaper And Mohammed Cartoon

UppityNegress ·
The cartoons were originally commisioned to test the boundaries of free speech in Denmark. An ethnically Danish author who was writing a pro-Muslim children's book on Islam, couldn't find anyone to illustrate it for fear of violence and persecution from the Muslims in Denmark. He questioned whether political correctness in regards to Muslims was hindering free speech in the country. The newspaper drawings were meant as a test--granted, a rather childish one. The smarter option would have...
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Re: Danish Newspaper And Mohammed Cartoon

Nmaginate ·
BUT you did not answer me question and "I stand by my view" that the Christ and Christian images are not comparably "sacred" in Christendom. Symbols of Christ, no matter what the lay or particular Christians feel about them [read: Christians angry enough over 'The Last Tempation of Christ' to call in bomb threats] , just aren't as sacred. It just doesn't translate. It's not the same language or the same word. There's a deeper, different meaning because of the very different tradition in...
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Re: Another Danish? Noah's "I wonder what?"

UppityNegress ·
In this day in age, yes I do think American Christians would be more "civil" about it, and considering how secular western Europe has become I'd question whether it would even make a dent outside of religious circles. Will they [Christians, esp. white] raise a fuss? Of course. Will they be super pissed? That goes without saying. Protest? Sure. Threats to actually kill other people, burn down the newspaper facility, and encourage others into suicide missions? You'll be hard pressed to find...
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Re: Another Danish? Noah's "I wonder what?"

Nmaginate ·
When was the last time White Christians collectively lived in comparable conditions? Under Occupation? Apparently not. There is not the same restrictions on human images in Christianity as there is in Islam, but know Christians who where angry enough with the movie The Last Tempation of Christ to call in bomb threats to theaters. And what about those good [White] Christians and their violent passions over abortions ? Now, that might not be over the not-so sacred Christian symbols and images...
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Re: Another Danish? Noah's "I wonder what?"

UppityNegress ·
I suppose that argument would have some merit in Palestine, but that situation isn't comparable to what is happening in northern Europe. Muslims in Scandinavia especially are far from ocupied--hell, they willingly migrated there to escape the poverty and extremism of their own countries! Having lived in the area for a brief period, I can say that while there is racism (or perhaps more accurately, culturism) in places like Denmark and Sweden, the Muslims there are segregated from mainstream...
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Re: Spiritual Autobiography

HonestBrother ·
I'm an odd bird. On the one hand, I'm a very rational person. Extremely logical. And naturally given to healthy doses of skepticism. I find it impossible to be religiously dogmatic. But at the same time, I have certain marked mystical tendencies. At age 11, I read a book by Albert Einstein called "Ideas and Opinions". It had a very profound influence. I became agnostic after that. I remember deciding that I no longer believed in Jesus and told my parents that I didn't want anything for...
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Re: Another Danish? Noah's "I wonder what?"

Noah The African ·
Thanks for giving that some play Nmaginate. In regards to the debate going on here, I think the way an entity reacts is determined by their position of power within the world order. Entities with less power usually respond asymmetrically, while those with the most power can afford to respond symmetrically. Christians are no less prone to violence, when they are lacking in power, than are Muslims or any other group. There is no moral superiority between religious followers. The difference in...
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Re: Another Danish? Noah's "I wonder what?"

Nmaginate ·
Who said anything about defending acts no one said you were a party to or approved of? My thing is how these things escaped your view and recollection. Why should they? You referenced Suicide Bomb(ers)... Didn't you? You got some stories from the Danish press, etc. that talks about Suicide Bombings in that country? Me, when you referenced Suicide Bombers, I thought of Palestine. Now you can be honest about what you were referencing complete with the actual incident in whatever country beside...
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Re: Should God?

umbrarchist ·
Your question presumes the ancient practices and interpretations were correct. I don't see modern Christians sacrificing animals. I don't hear anyone complaining about that? umbra
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Re: The Spiritual Problem With Modernist Art

HonestBrother ·
So which is it? 1) Either the masses don't understand modern art: 2) Or they do understand it and just don't appreciate it: And how can you coherently speak of the "world view of modern art" as if that were one clearly identifiable thing? I can point to so called modernist and postmodernist artists who had very different world views and ideologies. Some of them, like T.S. Elliot, were professing Christians. And, lastly, how is being inaccessible to the masses per se a spiritual problem?
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Re: Should God?

kresge ·
I find your response to this questions particularly interesting. It appears that you require empirical data in order to supersede enlightened individuals for whom I would contend that you do not have empirical data for in the first place. You have not seen the Buddha or Jesus, so how do you know what the Buddha or Jesus were like? How do you know that your conception is valid? This is part of the problem with interpretation. In some sense, all there is is interpretation. I am not sure if you...
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Re: Untitled--Just Disappointed and Upset

Empty Purnata ·
I can certainly empathize. My mother has always been a Christian since I was born (she grew up in a moderate church). But, she always used to be a very open and somewhat liberal Christian. I even found her reading books about other religions and even Christian Astrology. But, 2 years ago, she broke her leg and found herself houseridden for several months and dependent upon other people (which was a very humbling and even humiliating experience for my mother because she's always been a very...
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Re: Untitled--Just Disappointed and Upset

Rowe ·
After reading your account, which was very entertaining to read, by the way (you're a great writer!), suddenly I don't feel so bad. But you know what? Initially, I did not have a problem with my sister joining the church because she explained to me that she was only attending church to be in a "spiritual environment," and I understand the need that some people have to be in a spiritual environment. The trouble only began when she started regurgitating and reciting all of the rhetoric that is...
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Re: Untitled--Just Disappointed and Upset

Empty Purnata ·
I know what you mean, those were the warning signs with my parents too. But, as horrific as I just made my parents sound, it's not all that bad all the time. Many days, their religious shenanigans were just laughable in my mind. Like they would get all worked up in a frenzy if they saw two guys kiss on TV. It was those egrigious incidents that made them so bad. But, I'd have to say, my parents, as of late, seem to be getting better. I just had a conversation with my parents today and the...
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Re: The Spiritual Problem With Modernist Art

FireFly ·
Great that you posted these musings Melesi. I don't have common reference points with you as far as a diet of Arthur Miller or Jose Ortega y Gassett, so my response is more intuitive, being someone who does draw and paint. And therefore subjective, which all discussion of art ultimately is. I'd like to know your own personal thoughts and interactions on/with modern art though, references aside. First off, every artist is an individual. They may be popularist, obscure, political, commercial,...
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Re: The Spiritual Problem With Modernist Art

Melesi ·
art_gurl, ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ And therefore subjective, which all discussion of art ultimately is. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ While most discussion of art is subjective, not all of it is. The history of art is not, and discussions of art schools and methods is not, either. That was the discussion that I started. You will note that I did not judge the individual works of artists except for Jackson Pollack, and then only to the extent of saying that his art is all very similar to...
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Re: The Spiritual Problem With Modernist Art

Melesi ·
art_gurl, +++++++++++++++++++++++++ Melesi... arguing art and individual perceptions of it (art is more perception that fact) is such a HUGE topic. +++++++++++++++++++++++++ Agreed. That's why I don't mind either discussing it or anyone disagreeing with me. Arguing a topic with logic and intention but without rancor is helpful. Either I help someone else think more clearly, or I learn to. Either way, it's worth it. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ You are very fond of labelling and categorizing,...
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Re: Gunmen attack Nigeria oil complex

Texas Star ·
Bodies burned in open after Nigeria riots kill 146 By George Esiri 2 hours, 2 minutes ago ONITSHA, Nigeria (Reuters) - Christian youths burned the corpses of Muslims on Thursday on the streets of Onitsha in southeastern Nigeria, the city worst hit by religious riots that have killed at least 146 people across the country in five days. ADVERTISEMENT Christian mobs, seeking revenge for the killings of Christians in the north, attacked Muslims with machetes, set fire to them, destroyed their...
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Re: The Left Hand of God

Melesi ·
+++++++++++++++++++++++++ I did not claim one had to be religious in order to be oppressive nor have I ever gone on record as being for the elimination of religion. Nor have I ever expressed the view that by getting rid of religion we would also rid ourselves of hatred, ambition, and oppression. I've actually expressed opposite views on a number of occasions. So where you get these ideas is beyond me. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ You are not reading, either. What I wrote was slightly...
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Re: The Left Hand of God

HonestBrother ·
Like hanging themselves... You're not black are you? It always amazes me that black folk can cling so fiercely to the notion that some illiterate Jew died for their supposed 'sins' 2000 years ago when it's SO abundantly clear that the men who died for your * silly black asses * looked like
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Re: Cognitive dissonance and the black woman

HonestBrother ·
I will not answer your post in detail since it puts a lot of words into my mouth. I do not object to service. I do not object to protecting my woman or myself. I do object to giving lip service or intellectual assent to a number of religious doctrines which have nothing directly to do with service, protection, or unity. For example, 12. WE BELIEVE that Allah (God) appeared in the Person of Master W. Fard Muhammad, July, 1930; the long-awaited "Messiah" of the Christians and the "Mahdi" of...
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Re: CARNIVAL IS THE ANCIENT 'AFRICAN-KHEMET NEW YEAR"

Melesi ·
oshun, +++++++++++++++++++++++++++= Thanks for letting me know that you have been completely duped by the Eurocentric White supremacist educational system and their(the enemies) version of his-story ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Um, you're welcome? Come, oshun, this is not an answer. An answer would be to show that the Egyptians thought as the Greeks did only earlier. It would have to be so for there to be something Egyptian for the Greeks to steal. There's no evidence that the Egyptians had...
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Re: Cognitive dissonance and the black woman

Kai ·
You must object to the above since you reject "control". Is there a way to protect and serve outside of control? Is there? I am a Fruit Of Islam serving in the Nation Of Islam. I cannot speak for other faiths, but I am certain that the NOI's doctrine is premised upon service, protection, and unity, among other things. What does Master Fard Muhammad have to do with this? I agree. Fortunately, the NOI makes no such claims. Kai
 
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