Originally posted by jazzdog:
We probably do not share the same definition of success as we surely do not share the same definition of capitalism. You look at capitalism as being a system that oppresses one group of people for the other, while I look at capitalism as an opportunity for one to move up from one level of economic condition to another.
Capitalism is a system that functions of the oppression and exploitation OF THE MAJORITY of humanity. A few people can move up out of the oppressed group into being an oppressor(largely only within the G-8 countries...which I don't expect you to think outside of, evidence being your later posts about your lack of knowledge of CIA covert opperations in Africa). I guess as long as you are in the big house. All those in the field, remain nameless faceless masses that don't matter.
The whole concept of the system is based on private or corporate ownership of goods and investments and business decisions based on individual needs and wants and not the states.
What world are your living in? Individual needs and wants...What or whos "individuals wants"? It sure isn't the needs and wants of the suffering masses! REnt the movies "The Corporation" and "Life and Debt"...then get back to me. You must have no idea how this system is making the masses suffer. Probably largely because those masses are now outside of the U.S. boarders. How soon the former slaves forget.
And since the whole notion is based on a free market system where people can invest money, material or labor into the market, just how is it oppressing people.
Are you serious? You can't be this ignorant of global affairs! Free trade my ass! You are really buying the capitalist jibberish the elite are feeding you aren't you? Check out how "free trade zones" work and get back to me. I don't have time to teach the basics.
Are we to then assume that black america in its drive to overcome economic suppression is then taking on the role of the oppressor by embracing capitalism as a method of rising up. After all the idea of more individual black owned businesses not state owned is at the forefront of any economic revival that might happen in the black community.
How many multi-national corporate gods do you know that are Black? I can give you a hint...NONE...People always confuse private buisiness ownership, basic economics and trade with capitalist imperialism...that's rediculous! There is nothing wrong with haveing buisinesses. We are talking about international mega corps that run the U.S. foreign(and sometimes domestic) policy and have the government(ours and other hired militia men) oppressing people, and promoting internal conflicts the world over so they can exploit the natural resources of their respective countries.
Somehow I get the feeling that you equate great success as having to come at the expense of someone else versus the notion that individual hard work and effort can also equally produce success.
That depends on your definition of "great success".
My statement about those speaking out taking the least advantage of the system is just an observation that when one wholly embraces the idea of capitalism one tends to find out that the system works as equally for them as it does for others, it may not work overnight but it works.
Really now? I think you are talking about being the petit-bourgeoisie. I'm not criticizing that group(except for their attitude, like yours, that ignors the suffering of the majority) Tell the cocoa farmers in West Africa working their asses off. The tea and coffee farmers in East Africa, the countless people globally that live on, and are the rightful owners of oil rich or precious metal or stone rich land that get exterminated, robbed, or displaced by AMERIKKAN corporations that their "hard work" will pay off. You aren't looking at the bigger picture, or you just are completely ignorant about it. The Chiquita Bannana labourers who were forced to work at gun point in Costa Rica by that Amerikkkan Corp. would have to disagree with you. Wake up to what this capitlaist mulktinationals are doing the world over.
If your problem is that there are always a group of people on the bottom working to uplift people above them thats the cycle.
I thought your whole argument is that the "people" (aka the masses) on the bottom were working to uplift themselves? WHat happened to that? Are you now admitting their labour is being exploited by an elite? And are you ok with that?
If anything the notion that thought individual effort one can rise themselves above their condition is a powerful motivator. Somehow I imagine in a socialist system where everybody is the same with of course the obivious exception of the power holders that they is a lack of motivation in that all efforts go to the improvement of the state and not the individual.
Try 'everyone having THE BASICS!' I'm for individual AND collective effort...and the people putting in that effort benefitting from it. Not an elite class benefitting off of other peoples land, natural resources and exploited labour.
My definition of success is the obtainment of goals that I have set for myself and my family, reaching a desired state of fulfillment that allows me to do what I want when I want.
Success IMO can only be measures by the forward movement and progress of the masses. If most of my people, and/or the majority of humanity is suffering(at the hands of the elite BTW), even if I'm rich and can buy and sell people because of the oppression and exploitation of the masses(aka do whatever I want)...That's not progress.
BTW members of the ANC(African National Congress) in Apartheid South Africa, the Black Panther Party in the U.S., The Mau Mau in Brittish colonial Kenya, ect. were all refferred to as "terrorists" at one point. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.