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Reply to "MY Way or Hell!"

quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
quote:
Originally posted by IMMORTAL LOGIC:
That although you hear many voices, calling to you in the form of various religions, there are only two beings calling your name. One is him, and one is a ventriloquist of sorts. Who takes on many voices. And your even given the end results, one is on a hill called "Shamayin"(heaven) and for treason, and and attempting to overthrow the most high, one is on there way to "sheol"(hell).


I can appreciate your metaphorical explanation. It was indeed helpful in providing a synopsis of this discussion. However what Shitphony and others under the influence of Christianity fail to realize is that it is not their responsibility to give a world a religion.

awww you got yo own widdle pet name fo me. LOL I'm flattered. I may be constipated, but I ain't "phony". Wink

We aren't "giving the world a religion", we are spreading the Gospel. Christianity is NOT a "religion"--it is not man reaching out to God. It is God reaching out to man. While legalistic fundies might get carried away, the truth is that we are only to preach and teach, not force people to believe. Giving people a choice here is key. We cannot convert people anyway. The Holy Spirit does that. It is our responsibility to spread the Gospel, because God told us so.

Interestingly enough, St. Paul commented that if Christianity is hypothetically not the "right" religion (if Christ did not rise from the dead)"

1Cor.15
[17] And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
[19] If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable!


quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
Religion is intimately tied to culture and each culture has a different set of spiritual needs and goals. Therefore, to tell someone that because they do not claim Christianity as their religion that they are destined for a Christian hell is ridiculous. Its the mentality of a religious nut.


While religion can be arbitrarily tied to culture, it is not of necessity tied to culture in a way that prohibits another religion gaining a foothold, or in a way that negatively affects the populace.

And your statement about Christianity and Hell is based on misconceptions. A person who fears for the souls of others is not a "religious nut." Eternal punishment is a very serious thing indeed. Denial of the existence of Eternal Punishment (be it embodied in Hell, Purgatory, or any other alternative) is merely sticking one's head in the sand. One side of the family had a relative who had a very scary "near-death" experience. They found themselves in complete darkness and just wailing and moaning and nothing else. The person was not a religious person at all, but that scared the crap out of them.

It's not merely that someone doesn't claim Christianity as their religion that sends a person to Hell. It's the fact that the person's sins condemn them. The only way for those sins to be dealt with is through Christ.

It really would be a Cosmic Joke of monumental proportions if particular religions are to be inherited, not "believed" in an individualistic sense of acceptance based on something other than "well my mommy was a somethingist, my grandma was a somethingist, therefore I am a somethingist."

quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
In fact, many of the proverbs and stories that are meant to draw attention to basic principles of morality and wisdom can be found within the belief systems of almost every culture on this planet (i.e., give to the poor, do not steal, do not commit adultery, abstain from violence, etc.)


This is because the Law was written on Man's heart! Therefore Man has NO excuse not to obey the Law.

quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
But as far as conversion and proseltyization are concerned, this behavior is unique to Christians.


not true. (And quite ignorant, I might add.) Have you forgotten Islam and Judaism? While modern Judaism makes no such effort in today's world, it did in the past! Specifically, in Jesus' day.

Matt. 23: [15] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Islam has a rather open track record of forced conversion, even more blatant than Christianity.

The Canaanites sure did proselytize to the Israelites. Mind you, their idea of proselytization was Intro To Sacred Orgy 101...

Buddhism also has "Missionaries" who proselytize out there.

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Originally posted by Rowe:
Led by whites, who have proven to be incapable of harmoniously interacting with anyone who is not white,


Hey Rowerowrow your boat. Your bias is showing.

People's inability to interact harmoniously has nothing to do with Skin Color. Some fighting is internal.
"Africans" fight "Africans" (coughcoughhutusandtutsiscoughcough).
Indians fought Indians.
Whites fight whites.
aZns fight aZns.

And it is untrue and unfair to generalize whites as this bunch of racist f*cks. Generally speaking, however, the philosophy of DARWINISM (and its predecessors, for Darwin wasn't the first person to think of this crap) is most responisble for "racism" as seen being practiced by "whites". Charles Kingsley, author of the idiotic "The Water Babies" and cheerleader of Charles Darwin himself, thought that the Irish were evolutionarily inferior to the English and called them "white chimpanzees." It is of interest that Liberals in the Church (people who by and large reject the truthfulness of the Bible on average) were Darwin's most vocal supporters in his day.

quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
this religion requires its devotees to recruit more Christians and convert the world over into Christianity in attempts to "save" folks their own cultures and identities.


Ummm no. We aren't 'saving' people from their own identities. Cultures are malleable and change over time, regardless of outside influence or lack thereof. We aren't doing the saving, God is. We don't make the decision for the person.

Some denominations believe in this "decide TODAY that you are going to follow Jesus" line. This is called "Decision Theology" and Lutherans reject it. We believe that we CANNOT by our own reason or strength believe in Jesus, but that the Holy Spirit works to help the person do that.

quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
Meanwhile, while they claim to be the best examples of morality the world has to offer, the society in which they dwell happens to be the most violent, requiring the most military defense to protect itself compared to any other country on this planet, the most sexually amoral and perverted to say the least, and is the least supportive of its children's education and overall well-being. How they can possibly explain away this degree is hypocrisy is anyone's guess.


Boy oh boy. You've been listening to legalistic garbage haven't you? No wonder you have a warped idea of what Christianity is all about. Christians do NOT claim to be the most moral people on the planet--at least the ones which aren't into Legalism.

The society itself and its condition is NOT to be blamed on Christianity. There are a great deal of irreligious people in America (and even more in Canada!), and it is through a good number of them that sexual immorality, violence, etc, is rampant. This is not "hypocrisy"! This is freedom of choice at work! People can choose not to be religious (let alone Christian) and it shows in their influence. While Christians TRY to be moral (while at the same time recognizing they are not perfect and perfection is impossible), these irreligious or outright atheist guys don't always think they have to be.

Children's education is a totally separate issue that deals with socialism (a political philosophy), not religion.

And the military protection is common sense. Militant islamists like Bin Laden make the "worst" Christian Fundies seem like a basket of kittens.

quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
They have no idea about what it means to be a community, to care for others, or to live wholistically.


Again, this situation has JACK to do with Christianity being around. Individualism is a philosophy, not a religion.

Add to that the fact that people who do NOT care for others are NOT following the teachings of Christ, and you really can't blame this on Christianity.

quote:
Originally posted by Rowe:
This is why I become so incensed when I read the religiously self-righteous and arrogant arguments made by people like Shitphony because the people for whom she represents are NOT in the position to make judgements against those they seek to convert, who are often times more trustworthy and spiritually consistent than the average Christian could ever hope to be. Its no wonder they experience so many problems with trying to market their religion to others. The religion has proven to do absolutely nothing in regards to elevating their own decency and spirituality beyond stagnation.


ROFLMFAO. Dude, you have a warped picture that needs straightening out. People who were raised as (or exposed to) such fundy sects as Baptist might get a warped idea of Christianity in general, especially if Legalism is in effect rather than a balance of Law and Gospel.

I am NOT making judgments here. The morality of one versus the other is not an issue here. What IS an issue is TRUTH. I am not here to "convert", I cannot do that. Only the Holy Spirit can do that. I'm just the messenger, please do not shoot lol.

Christianity is a difficult religion to accept, which is why seems to have "marketing problems." This is not the fault of Christianity itself, but of Man, which is inherently evil and wicked to the core. While the Law is written on Man's heart, there will always be rationalization. And people can rationalize just about anything if they try hard enough.

This mistaken notion that Christianity is less "spiritual" than other religions is a curious one. Proto-Judaism and Christianity alike were forbidden from contacting 'spirits'. This is because the spirits in question are deceivers. They will tell you anything you want to hear. It is indeed strange to claim that one gets more intimate with "god" by contacting spirits that are NOT the "supreme god".
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