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Reply to "MY Way or Hell!"

Originally posted by Rowe:
_Immortal Logic: When you ENTER into a religion you have to give up certain aspects of your culture._

Rowe: Your religion is your birth right. It should not require "entering" or "induction" or "conversion" in the first place. A religion is not a girlscouts club or social meeting where "applying " for membership is a requirement and others who are not a member are ostracized. Perhaps this is how Westerners relate to religion, but everyone else does not. Your religion is your CULTURAL IDENTITY. Its who you are and who you will always be. Its in your blood and in your lineage. Its who your family and ancestors were and the lives they apsired to live.

1)The irony of of this statement is, it is filled with western ideals. It is western to assume that you are what your parents are. A person who rarely, if ever attends a church service, will still refer to themselves as christian, because their parents go. You might be expected,or assumed to practice. But throughout most of the east, to truly be part of a religion takes years of study. That is why it is called "practicing religion" Religion, is following a particular path set on guidelines and principles, believed to be spiritually divine. In most of the eastern world, if you do not follow those guidelines, and ignore those principles, then your not that religion. It's rare to see individuals doing what the like, then declare themselves to be the religion of there parents in public, because their would be an outrage.
2)Yet again you fail to see your own hypocrisy. In order for you to make that statement, would mean the entire planet would have to be born and die without individual freedom of choice,and religion is thrust upon you based on region of birth. By saying,your religion is "who you are and will always be" and is the "cultural identity" for one, and there entire your family, would put you,personally, in the position of defining people, and families for them. If a person of japanese lineage living in japan is'nt practicing shintoism then they are no longer japanese or of that culture? No one appointed you to that position. People from all over the world,east and west, worship various religions not native to there lands and indiginous cultures. Muslims in the south pacific & Afica, European Buddhist,etc. Plus, people can and do practice one religion and still maintain their cultural identity. I've seen footage on PBS of different cultures celebrate the same day of religious observance, in two totally different ways. One with a solemn dignified ceremony, the other, with an loud outdoor festival. One religion, Two cultures,two ways of observing. It's odd how you said "It's not your place to decide what is right for me and my people or any one else's people for that matter". But you just did. If you want to rage against the self-righteous so badly start with the one in your mirror.

Immortal Logic: Are you saying that I personally am completely ignorant to these cultures, or western society?_

Rowe: Did you not just make an uninformed and judgemental observation about African traditions involving female circumcision, scarfication, and the marriage of "minors" as not being "right?"

1)You again missed the point. I was illustrating how one can change religions (even without your permission), and maintain most, if not all of their culture,depending on that culture and the religious laws by drawing parallels to moving from one country to another. If one where practicing these rituals in there own land, but decided to move to Canada, for instance, they know going into the situation, what is, and what not is permitted in that new land, and must've been o.k. with it for the most part if they are in Canada. If not,they would'nt have decided to go from one to the other. Sometimes to get to where you, personally, want to be some degree of sacrafice must be endured, and laws must be obeyed once there. So is true of nations so is true of religions(again, with or without the approval of rowe.)
2)You can with no degree of certainty, say what I am, and am not,informed on. Yet another assumption.

Did it ever occur to you that outsiders who arrive to this country and see the unneccessary and disgusting ways that Americans carve up their bodies during plastic procedures in order to satisfy some childish obsession with looking "youthful" is also "not right?" Or what about Americans marking up their bodies with ridiculous tatoos stating "I Love Mommy" and other body piercings which have no tribal significance or cultural meaning whatsoever? What about the child pornography problem that continues to plague this country as well America's glorified pedophiles who call themselves "religious leaders" while perpetually sexually abusing its youth in the church and behind the scenes? Why isn't any of this "not right?" Because its done in America, that's why! Somehow, because Americans do it, that makes it ok.You all have to be the most self-absorbed and conceited people this world has ever seen. Why is it that you all can see everyone else's faults, but you cannot see your own?

I'm beginnig to see the pattern here. The weaker your argument the more pronounced your accusations and assumptions. You go off on a rant then try to attribute it to me. I guess in order to maintain your argument you must periodically make up statements, then attach them to others. post where I endorsed any of the above. Look, if your just keep posting to have the last word then say so. Just state that you like having the last word...that's it. But to keep put words in someones mouth...why?

_Immortal Logic: Anticipated by whom the men, or the females going to have their clitoris removed?_

Rowe: What's the reason for having male infant's foreskin removed? The foreskin doesn't prevent reproductive functioning, so why is it removed? Its anticipated by whom the women, or males going to have their foresking removed?
Your not honestly going to equate the removal of foreskin to the removal of an organ(clitoris)are you. You don't see the difference in the two?

_Immortal Logic: I've read articles were female circumcision is so severe te women can no longer stand on there own and must be assisted or use a wheel chair._

Rowe: Listen buddy, I'm not going to waste my time arguing over apples and oranges.
Lookie here, ol' pal o mine. you talk at great lengths all over the board, but the second your asked for your source(s) of information it becomes "apples and oranges" not worth your time? Here are just three of my sources.article one article two Article threeNow where are yours? And after your done reading you catch a flight out, there and tell those sistas how the removal of foreskin is the same thing. And to suck it up, in the name of tradition.

The point is, you could learn to exercise something that is called cultural tolerance and _Cultural Relativity_.
The point was,(which still again you didn't grasp). Can it be "right" if half the people in that very culture, do not wish to tolerate it.

Cultural Relativity is an anthropological term which warns observers, particularly anthropology students, against perceiving and judging the cultural traditions and behaviors of others through the lense of your own culture.

_Immortal Logic: But don't fault others for the sharing of concepts,teachings and beliefs. I CAN and WILL inform whoever I am told!_

Rowe: When it involves Christians, there's a very fine line between "sharing" and "imposing," especially if it is your intention to exorcise people from their traditional religions and cultures.
We already went over all of this.

Think about it. What makes you think that these people are not just as satisfied with their belief system as you are with yours?
But who's to say they should not be introduced to new beliefs and make there own choices?
Immortal Logic: What makes you think the teachings of YAH aren't african in origin? _

Rowe: I'm not familar with the teachings of Yah. My statement was in response to your description of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. If the teachings of Yah have any relationship to either of these religions, then its likely that it is African in origin.
Yes Rowe, because the Teachings of YAH were given to black people(hebrews), making them African in origin.