quote:Originally posted by folobatuyi:
History is filled with examples of how Christianity was used to either justify murder or racism or some wrong doing against another set of people. One can start with the Prostestians and Catholics as exemplified by the constant struggle between the Irish and the British Government.
This is a war between two Christian countries what it is not is Christians going out with the intention of hate and domination of non Christians. That is what we are trying to ascertain if such a thing was ever done in the name of Christianity.
quote:Or consider the crusades (there were actually two crusades in the the middle ages) which were not a happy fest of preaching to the lost souls; instead, it involved outright war in which the "Holy Christians" were out to remove the Muslims who had taken over the Holy lands with force albeit they kinda failed.
As you said this was a war to take back what Muslims had taken from the Christian world. That means it was fought with NO evil intent like hating and dominating Muslims etc as we are discussing here. Don't get me wrong there were terrible atrocities especially on the side of the Christians but this was war and in war niceties go out of the window.
Also this example does not come close in comparison to what African Traditional healers do which is to go out with one simple intent and one intent only; murder of their innocent brothers and sisters. Murder is is not the same as war. It is like comparing apples and oranges, they don't even come close
Or consider the Spanish Inquirision in which the Jesuits used their power to wrongfully imprison and even burn at the stake those they fould quilty of commiting heresy...
I thought your point was about what Christians did to other people who were not Christians not what they did to themselves to keep their religion clean of heresy. This example does not compute because this is Christian upon Christian violence to keep heresy out of their churches
Or consider the Salem witch hunt trials in the early 1600s in the town of Salem, Massachussetts where women and children (a few men if any at all) were actually burn ALIVE at the stake for supposedly being caught practicing witchcraft.
Trust me on this one across all religions people always react badly to witchcraft. Christianity does not hold a monopoly here. You saw in the example above how the towns people reacted when they found ritualist living in their midst. The reaction is the same everywhere I'm afraid
Or the fact that even in more recent times, the name of God/Jesus has been invoked to justisfy the act of war...need I say who?
Yes please do. This whole exercise with your post is to show clearly where Christianity has gone to war the clear intention of hate and domination as Ebony put it. So far I have not seen any evidence of it
But that was not what Ebony was saying. If what you just said is what Ebony was saying I would have no problem with it. This is what Ebony was saying.quote:In essense, as Ebonyrose was suggesting, I think that when it comes to human nature, we can and have use a form of higher power to justify doing wrong to a group of people somewhat differ from us in some form or the other and by that, no one offender should boast that their means and end is any better than that of the other...it is all wrong!
quote:Originally posted by EbonyRose:
"nor their wars erases the fact that Bible-toting Christians used to murder in the name of religion simply because they felt they were superior to those they were killing.........They have used the Christian religion to dominate and destroy ...
My assertion is this is simply not true and I can assure you this has never happened in human history. There has been wars, yes wars to steal and wipe out whole empires like that of the conquistadors but this was not wars fought by Christianity upon other races or cultures. The people who committed these crimes may have been christians but nowhere does it say the war was initiated by the Christian world with the intent of hate and domination of these people or cultures.
Human beings by nature do very bad things. These people when committing these crimes could be members of any religion and the religion in general is not blamed for these individual actions because those actions are not what the religion stands for. To give an example Muslims flying airplanes into the twin towers does not make Islam an evil religion because that is not what Islam stands for but the crimes are the actions of those individuals who used their faith as the platform to launch their hatred of America.
However all of the forgoing is different from traditional African religion whose sole aim is to do terrible things to fellow Africans. For example asking for human heads before a chief is buried or enthroned is murder on a grand scale short and simple. What sort of religion has this evil as it's core practice? It is Devil worship and you know it. You are an African and you know these terrible things happen so please don't excuse it by pointing fingers at what others have done. I am aware of atrocities by other cultures in their history but that is beside the point. This is our problem as continental Africans and we should be focused on eradicating it like Fagunwa has said earlier. What is wrong is to try to prevent or avert scrutiny and investigation from the world community by pretending the situation is not so bad by pointing fingers at others and their history.
On touching slavery, the transatlantic journey was no cake walk by any stretch of the imagination...the movie Almstad gave us a mere insight into the perils that was experienced by the slaves along that fateful trip across the "great river". I mean being stalked up together tighter than sardines in chains sitting in vomit and feces does not seem like paradise. Not to talk less of the fact that these people were simply dumped in the ocean in chains and butt naked straight into the mouths of sharks and what not. No, this was not cool either and definitely not the nicer picture illustrated before.
This point is very interesting because I believe the intent behind you posting this piece is show what evil white people did to blacks. This desire to shift blame is what I see as the core problem that is plaguing us from the time of slavery till the present day. This statement tells a lot about our character as a people and why it allows us to do terrible things to each other and then refuse to take responsibility for our evil actions.
Let me give you an example, When you sell your daughter into prostitution the sky is the limit to what the punters would do to her. When it comes to blame it is you the parent that started your child on such a path that is to be blamed for everything that happened to her. The punters simply took advantage of the situation. The same applies to slavery. I would say look again at what you posted and let us be filled with deep remorse because if we have not sold our brothers into slavery such terrible things would not have happened to them. The blame lies with the black man that gave his brother into the hands of those that carried out this evil.
History has taught us that if people do not learn from their mistakes, they are prone to repeat such mistakes again and again. Because as continental Africans we refuse to take responsibility for our bad actions be it with slavery or ritual killing, we keep repeating these atrocities again and again for example genocidal actions in Rwanda and Dafur. Until the day we look at our problems squarely in the eye and say "ENOUGH AND NO MORE" Africa would continue to a hellhole with all sorts of sad stories coming out of her.