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QUEEN CALAFIA THE BLACK AMAZON QUEEN AFTER WHOM CALIFORNIA IS NAMED: BLACK CALIFORNIAN

 
November 10, 2003 4:36 PM

QUEEN CALAFIA THE BLACK AMAZON QUEEN AFTER WHOM CALIFORNIA IS NAMED: BLACK CALIFORNIAN OF THE BLACK MOJAVE NATION WHO LIVED IN CALIFORNIA BEFORE THE SPANISH INVASION

The original peoples of California included two races. They were the descendants of prehistoric Negroid peoples like the picture on the right of a Black Mojave warrior. The other group were members of Mongoloid "Indian" peoples who also existed in the region along with people who migrated from the Canada/Alaska region.

HISTORY OF THE ORIGINAL BLACK CALIFORNIANS

The history of the original Black peoples of California is not mentioned in most Amrican history books. The term "Indian" is used to classify all the peoples found in the Americas when Columbus arrived. Yet, Columbus and his men as well as people like Balboa and Peter Matyr do mention "Ethiopians" in the Caribbean, Darien region of Panama, the cost of South America, California and other areas. These Blacks were the "Descendants of Ham" specifically those with black skins and kinky/curly hair that the Spaniards and other Europeans were instructed to capture and enslave, then Christianize based on the edict of the mid 1400's, (see "A History of the African-Olmecs," published by 1stBooks Library, 1663 Liberty Drive Suite 200, Bloomington, Indiana 47404 USA www.1stbooks.com 1(800) 839-8640.

The Black Californians were not American Indians but people identical to Africans in race and features. In fact they looked like Africans and somewhat like Melanesians. The history of the Black Californians may appear to be shrowded in mystry, however that is merely due to the attempt to keep their history obscure by not mentioning that the original people of California included Blacks as well as American Indians who existed there for thousands of years before Columbus.

Yet, the Black Californians are not unknown to the Spanish invaders and colonialists whose descendants are part of the populations of Mexico, California and the South Western US and who are no different from the settlers and colonialists from England, France, Portugl and elsewhere. In fact, the Spaniard who mentions the legend of Queen Califia as being a Black Amazon Queen who ruled a land at the edge of the world, where the women were warriors and decked in gold, was Ordonez de Montalvo.

Montalvo is said to have gotten a book that mentions Queen Calafia and her Black Amazon warriors. Some historians have speculated that Queen Calafia was probably one of the female African Amazon Queens similar to those who ruled in Dahomey and parts of West Africa for some time, or perhaps the Nubian Queens of Nubia during the period of 100 BC to 200 AD or sometime during that period.

The Spanish explorers along the California Coast were among the first to see and enquire about the Black Californians. One source maintains that the Spaniards upon arriving along the California shores saw a number of Black people with ships. They asked the Indians who were they and the Indians replied that these "black, curlyhaired people," were of the land (California) and traded with people across the sea (the Pacific Ocean) by sailing back and forth.

Where were these Black Californians going to in the Pacific? It is most likely they were trading with people in Hawaii or as far as the South Pacific where the Black population has always been very large and very widespread. In fact when Magellan arrived in the Filipines, there were large numbers of Negritos who were well organized and according to some sources a strong population (African Presence in Early Asia, edt. by Ivan Van Sertima, Runoko Rashidi).

Black traders and Black Africoid peoples who had been in the Americas for thousands of years were also spread in the Mississippi Valley, the Eastern US, Mexico and the Caribbean. Among these groups were the Washitaw, the Yamassee, Guale, Califunami, Chuarras of Brazil, Afro-Dariente of Panama, Choco of Colombia, Olmec (Mende-Shi) of Mexico, Guanini of South America and others. I. Rafinesque mentions a number of Black groups in his work, "The Primitive Black Nations of America," (Fiends Society, Philadelphia, 1833). One things is certain, the Europeans, Americans, Spaniards never mistook American Indians for Negro Africans. They always referred the Blacks of the Negro African type as "Moors" "Blacks" or "Ethiopians." The Indians were sometimes mistaken for Asians or Indians from India.

WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BLACK CALIFORNIANS AND ORIGINAL BLACKS OF CALIFORNIA AND THE SOUTH WEST

The Blacks of California became victims of Spanish colonialism. Many were enslaved and worked on the ranches of the Californios. Others became part of the Black population of California, while some continued fighting untill the mid to late 1800's.

Like the California Indians of the Mongoloid Indian race who were hunted down in California at fifty dollars a head (the same genocidal practice was carried against Black Aboriginals in Australia) and who were made to reject their Indian culture to become 'Mexicans and accept European ways, the Black Californians suffered a similar fate.

One book shows a picture of Black Californians being marched into slavery by Spanish Californios on horsehack. There is no doubt that since California was basically like the rest of the United States and partially segregated up to 1965, the Black Californians who were found in the state when the Spanish arrived and who continued to survive did not disappear. As the picture above shows, these Blacks were similar in features to Blacks from Africa, therefore it would have been easy for them to have become part of the Black population of California at a time when the Black population was as high as forty percent in some areas. Hence, the Black Aboriginal population of California continued to exist and Blacks of California today are their descendants, including the descendants of Africans from Mexico and freed
slaves and free Blacks from the Eastern and Southern US.

In retrospect, it is proper that Blacks in California understand their true history and realize that California was named after the Black Amazon Queen Calafia and that the original inhabitants of California, the people who have any claim and rights to any land are the American Indians and Black Californians who are in fact part of the Black populations of California today.

The problem with the conditions of Blacks in California today is the lack of knowledge of ownership and the lack of knowledge of history. Blacks in California see their economic, politial and numerical power and insluence as a shrinking minority in California, a state that had a significant Black population for hundreds and perhaps thousands of years.

PROPOSITIONS THAT SEEK TO HIDE THE RACIAL AND ETHNIC ORIGINS OF PEOPLE CONTINUES THE SAME GENOCIDAL POLICY
CARRIED OUT AGAINST THE AMERICAN INDIANS AND BLACK CALIFORNIANS

The shrinking numbers of Blacks in California (from 40 percent before the 1800's to 7 percent today) has to do with the deliberate policies of genocide being implemented against Blacks by political trickery and policies. In fact, propositions that aim to not classify race or ethnicity in California are just as evil as the "hygene" program taken in Europe during World War II to determine who is "Aryan" and who was not. This time the aim is to "Anglicize" the population yet maintain a strata of caste where Blacks after loosing their identity and culture will be nothing but inferior copies of Anglo-Saxons. The Anglo-Saxons will continue to dominate and maintain their culture, but Blacks will simply be copying them and being kept down without a culture, without an identity and in many ways without the essence and the soul of what makes a people unique.

Hence, in order to boost the Black population, the means of doing so will have to be implemented immediately. It must be kept in mind that numbers do count and populations are increased when people get married, stay married and have lots of children, while rejecting all ideas, schemes and tricks being pushed on them by others.

Yet, the fact remains that there was indeed a Black warrior nation in California and they were at war with the Spanish, Mexican Spaniards and the US settlers until about the mid 1800's. According to the Black Book (Random House, 1974), the settlers and their armies were "relieved" when the Black Californians were pacified.

In retrospect, the time has come for today's Black Californians to know their history and understand who was always in this state and who came during the period of colonialism. The idea that a person from another land whose ancestors committed genocide against American Indians and Black Californians has more right to any part of California is utterly absurd. There is no difference between a Spanish invader and settler and French or Dutch one. They are still settlers and they cannot claim what is not theirs. Perhaps that is why the history of the Black Californians has been obscured and perhaps that is why the genocidal policies against Blacks in California has led to the decrease in the population. It is up to The People to do all that is necessary to reverse this trend. California should never be left for others to enjoy. The Black Californians must increase their population in order to make sure they are not reduced to slavery, again. Nubers matter and its time to get organized and take steps to enlarge the population.

Read more on the Black Californians
http://community.webtv.net/nubianem

"A History of the African-Olmces" published by 1stbooks Library, 1663 Liberty Drive, Suite 200, Bloomington, Indiana 47404 USA www.1stbooks.com
 
 
 
 
November 10, 2003 5:02 PM

Sun Nubian you spoke of the African Queen Uropa? of which the name Europe came from, and that reminded me of the evidence scholars found with regard to the name California.
 
 
 
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A1
 
November 11, 2003 3:06 PM

Does it matter that the "book" which spoke of the black Amazon "queen" Califa was a book of fiction?

This book was "Las Sergas de Esplanian," or "The Adventures of Esplandian," written by Garcia Ordonez de Montalvo. It was published in 1510 in Spain, which is before any explorers ever made it to the west coast of anyplace in teh New World. The earliest that anyone European did was Balboa, who got to the Pacific on the isthmus of Panama. But that was 1513, a few years after de Montalvo wrote his book. IT was a few years yet before any Spaniards got to California.

I notice that Prophetess did not speak to the kinds of people or the land that they lived in that de Montalvo described. This land, "California," was an island, not part of a continent, and the people who lived there were all women--they were Amazons, you see--"without any men among them." They also had no metal but gold, even the harnesses of the wild beasts that they tamed to ride were of gold.

So this whole issue of California being named for an African or black Amazonian queen is a fairy tale. A very popular fairy tale of the time, and a well-written one, but still a fairy tale.
 
 
 
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November 11, 2003 4:30 PM

Oh Sun Nubian here are some additional links to QUEEN CALAFIA. I'm sure you like most intelligent black women know that CALIFIA WHETHER 'FICTION' OR NO, WAS A BLACK AMAZON QUEEN WHO CALIFORNIA IS NAMED AFTER.

I knew I didn't have to spell it out to you INTELLIGENT, BLACK WOMEN LOOKING IN, as only a dunce, she-he-demon goat of hell would arrogantly burst in, and show stupidity that is unfathomable AMEN, BLACK WOMEN? Big Grin


Annnnyhoo, do enjoy knowing the TRUTH that CALIFORNIA WAS NAMED AFTER A BLACK AMAZON AFRICAN QUEEN WHETHER FICTIONAL OR NO, SHE WAS SO REVERED THAT THEY NAMED CALIFORNIA AFTER THIS BLACK/AFRICAN AMAZON QUEEN CALAFIA....BUT THEN YOU KNEW THAT ALL ALONE, ANYWAY. You think they so adored her they wanted her to be real, so real, they named CALIFORNIA after her? What a tool, EH? Wink


http://www.raceandhistory.com/historicalviews/13012002.htm

http://www.mesart.com/artwork.jsp.que.artwork.eq.2000.shtml

http://www.awele.com/family%20tree/default.htm
 
 
 
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A1
 
November 11, 2003 4:56 PM

It's not hard to be "revered" in a fairy tale. All the author has to do is say so.

It's not hard to be an island, either, or to live without men in a fairy tale.

But tell you what, prophetess, why don't you try it for a century? Then you'll find out just how hard it is to make a fairy tale come true.
 
 
 
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November 11, 2003 5:30 PM

Hey BLACK WOMEN ALONE, check out this WHITE MALE WORSHIPPING, ADORING, LUSTING AND IN HEAT. Sniffing at our heels, story of our life among caucasoid males, eh? Wink

http://members.tripod.com/~iobeyBLACKWOMAN/

One submissive white man's tribute to the most perfect,
most powerful and most beautiful of all Creation.



i kneel before YOU.



i urge all others to join me.



Worship.



Contemplate.



for assuming YOUR rightful place
as one of the World's most beautiful Women. YOU are a Queen indeed.

Welcome Black Goddesses. This page is for YOU. And for YOU *only*.

One submissive white man's tribute to the most perfect,
most powerful and most beautiful of all Creation.



i kneel before YOU.



i urge all others to join me.



Worship.



Contemplate.



Congratulations and thank YOU to Ms Wendy Fitzwilliam, newly crowned


M I S S U N I V E R S E

and reigning


M I S S T R I N I D A D A N D T O B A G O

for assuming YOUR rightful place
as one of the World's most beautiful Women. YOU are a Queen indeed.

A Quote from Ms Fitzwilliams' Q&A session at the pageant reveals that Her
qualifications truly run more than skin-deep:

Q: We are approaching the millennium, a once-every-1000-year milestone.
What do you think the role of women will be in the next century?

A: One primary role of women in the next millennium is to re-educate men
by impressing upon them the changed role of both sexes on the job,
at home, and throughout every facet of life.

Than YOU for YOUR words of wisdom, Ebony Queen. An inspiration indeed.



The main goal of this page is to express the sincere and deep-felt
desire of myself and other white men to serve Black Women, whom i/we
regard as Goddesses. To be worshipped. To be served. To be obeyed.

This page does not discriminate against men of other race/background/whatever
if they share the statement of purpose of this web page.
However, this page is created from my particular perspective.
All males who worship the Black Queen in more than lip service are welcome here.

What do i mean by service? Service is whatever is in my/our power to
fulfill Your needs and desires.

YOU do *not* have to be a Dominatrix or some other such figure of the
male fantasy spectrum to qualify. You were born a Black Goddess.
And it is my sincere wish to serve You. You are exemplarized by Ladies
such as Erykah Badu, The Women of En Vogue, Grace Jones, Whitney Houston,
Naomi Campbell, Tyra Banks, Vanessa Williams, Iman and countless others
who perhaps are not in the spotlight of American media attention, but
who we know are Queens of equal stature and beauty, equally deserving
of Service and Adoration.

A Black Goddess [YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE] has noticed some glaring omissions
among the Women listed above and has directed me to include the fabulous
Pam Grier and Angela Basset.
What an omission indeed.
i stand corrected and i thank YOU for bringing this to my attention.

This page is in tribute to all Women of African Descent, be They famous
and well-known or be they more anonymous in Their life. YOU are all
beautiful Goddesses to be worshipped.

Please stay tuned to this page for it will soon be a resource for Black Women
who desire to be served by an obedient white male. i am seeking submissions from
men who are interested in selflessly serving Black Women and will then anonymously
post them by geographic location so that any Lady who has a desire to be served
can quickly see who is available in Her area. i am also interested in facilitating
communication among the Black Goddesses visiting here, possibly to exchange tips
on how to train their boys for their particular needs and other delightful subjects.
Who knows, perhaps YOU would even like to exchange or trade boys for a while.

Service can mean a lot of things... You may be traveling and in need of
accommodations... Or maybe You have accommodations, but need Your feet massaged.
Maybe You are looking for someone to clean Your home on occasion..
Or maybe You'd like to invite a few of Your tightest friends for a cocktail
party and need a server..
The list is endless. Be assured that YOU do not need to be a Dominatrix
or experienced in Dominating men. i/we are experienced in servitude and
i/we do not seek fantasy fulfillment. If on the other hand You are a Dominatrix
or would like to try Your hand.. Your loyal subject/s are more than willing
to indulge You, Sweet Majesty.

If YOU have any questions please feel quite free to email and ask me.
i would be delighted to answer whatever questions YOU may have.

Please visit my ONElist invitational page for info on white men
[and women] who offer their completely and 100% free of charge
catering and other personal services to
Afro-American Women:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Like I said black women, WHAT A FOOL, ER, I MEAN, TOOL IN MY HANDS EH? Big Grin
 
 
 
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A1
 
November 11, 2003 8:00 PM

You changed the subject.

Assuming that everything on this website is true, that this is a white male writing all this (we don't know that it is), it would not be the first time that someone engaged in emotional exhibitionism and required a counselor instead of ridicule.

For you to call him a "fool" shows your hatred and scorn more than it does his condition. If that site is true, then he is to be pitied, not called names.

Now, how about that art?
 
 
 
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November 12, 2003 11:50 AM

Prophetessofrage,
I will check this out.
I am just sorry that I do not have handy the material I have read regarding the evidence of the Madonna being black or that original "christian" dieties were black.

Also, I understand that a lot of true history and happenings in the past have been written off as fiction, superstition, or pagan mythology by the powers that be that want people to only believe in their version of the truth, history, morality.

I also know and have read of the evidence (and I don't have a copy of that book right before me right now, if that's o.k., Melesi) Smile of Africans being in American/North America long before Columbus and of the fact that the Native Americans Knew and believed that they had black brothers and sisters and white brothers and sisters long before also. I have also read information on "Egyptian" hieroglyphics that show that the different "races" of peoples have been know and categorized thousands of years ago by Africans (the black man being first, the Asian man being second, and the white man being last and referred to as the "blonde beast").
I have also read of the travels of Marco Polo that carried him, not only to Asia, but also to Africa and how he wrote of the magnificent civilization of Black people and of how they had universities of learning; and of how he was not believed and branded a liar and a lunatic and died unbelieved and broke. For centuries, the Dogaan tribe knew the existence of the "black hole" that had been described by them to western scientist at least sixty years before the first one was discovered by western science; before then, western scientist did not believe them either, however, their disbelief did not keep it from being true.

So, just because people believe something is not true, does not mean that it is not or that it never happened or that the person or people were not who they were.
 
 
 
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A1
 
November 12, 2003 1:41 PM

sunnubian,

If you get to read "The Description of the World" or "the Travels of Marco Polo" (same book, different titles) you will find that he never got to Africa. He speaks only of the Khan's court and cities.

One reason I suppose that he never went anywhere else is because of his imprisonment and his age. After he came back from China in 1295--after spending 24 years traveling there and back, and spending 17 years in the actual court of Khublai Khan, even being an ambassador for him--a the age of 41.

While many people are sowing down at this point in their lives, 3 years later, in 1298, his home city Venice went to war against Genoa. Polo commanded a war-galley in that war, but unfortunately for him his ship was captured and so was he. He spent the rest of the war--a year--in a Genoese prison. When he was released he was 45 and unmarried, and he wanted to change that. He did, marrying Donata Badoer, and lived in Venice for the rest of his life, which was until 1324. He was married about 24 years.

Among all his personal effects were only Mongolian memorabilia--silks, brocades, gold eating vessels--including the golden "tablet of command" that Kublai Kahn gave him for his journey home.

There was no other trip, and he had no African memorabilia at all. He did not die broke. He did not have a great fortune, but he was very comfortable. He was not believed, that is true, but he was no tbelieved about China, not Africa, because it looks as though he passed on some of the fire-side tales that Persian travellers told him, especially about giant birds that pick up elephants, drop them onto rocks, and then feast on the shattered carcasses of the pachyderms. He also sometimes uses Persian words for Chinese wonders, which prompted people to ask if he'd even seen them (he does not describe the Great Wall or Chinese tea, for example) but instead just took some Persian's word for them. That's why he was called by some "Marco Milione," or Marco of the Million (Lies)." He described China, but appears never to have gone there. Only Mongolia.

But not Africa.

It's easy to say that truth has been "suppressed" by "powers." It's a common stock-in-trade for people with a goal or a bias. It almost never happens, though, and certainly not without evidence of it happening. And when it comes to history, there's just too muc of it around and more coming to light all the time for any "suppressed" history to remain suppressed for long.

If the European deities really were black originally, we'd have known about it before now. There are too many examples of them around.

As for the original Christian art depicting Jesus, just go to a library. An Interlibrary Loan will be helpful if the books are not in your local branch.
 
 
 
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November 12, 2003 4:51 PM

quote:
Originally posted by sunnubian:
Prophetessofrage,
I will check this out.
I am just sorry that I do not have handy the material I have read regarding the evidence of the Madonna being black or that original "christian" dieties were black.

Also, I understand that a lot of true history and happenings in the past have been written off as fiction, superstition, or pagan mythology by the powers that be that want people to only believe in their version of the truth, history, morality.

I also know and have read of the evidence (and I don't have a copy of that book right before me right now, if that's o.k., Melesi) Smile of Africans being in American/North America long before Columbus and of the fact that the Native Americans Knew and believed that they had black brothers and sisters and white brothers and sisters long before also. I have also read information on "Egyptian" hieroglyphics that show that the different "races" of peoples have been know and categorized thousands of years ago by Africans (the black man being first, the Asian man being second, and the white man being last and referred to as the "blonde beast").
I have also read of the travels of Marco Polo that carried him, not only to Asia, but also to Africa and how he wrote of the magnificent civilization of Black people and of how they had universities of learning; and of how he was not believed and branded a liar and a lunatic and died unbelieved and broke. For centuries, the Dogaan tribe knew the existence of the "black hole" that had been described by them to western scientist at least sixty years before the first one was discovered by western science; before then, western scientist did not believe them either, however, their disbelief did not keep it from being true.

So, just because people believe something is not true, does not mean that it is not or that it never happened or that the person or people were not who they were.


Hi Sun Nubian yeah, I too have read some of the BLACK TRUTHS you speak of, in fact, I'll enclose as many SCHOLARS, WRITERS, PREACHERS, PEOPLE OF TRUTH all over the world so OUR BLACK DAUGHTERS looking in can become enlightened. You know sun nubian, we should all go from BLACK site to site posting the TRUTH that WHITE RACIST DEMONS 'cast to the ground' (Daniel 8:12,23-25; 9:26).

Yeah, 'blond beasts' eh? The Black/Egyptians referred to the whites as 'barbarians' who would come in stealing, killing, and destroying. They had to build a wall to keep them out. This of course was before the Greek/Roman invasion. It is the millinieum and TRUTH CRUSHED TO THE GROUND IS RISING AGAIN and no amount of 'specimens' bursting in like ghastly, ghoulish, er, uh, 'blonde beasts' plopping down 'WHITE LIES' on a BLACK WOMAN'S SITE full of BLACK WOMEN, is going to change the TRUTH, THE BLACK TRUTH but it does make for a good 'live exhibition' show of all we are talking about, does it not?.... Big Grin

Is the book 'They Came Before Columbus' by Van Sertima a righteous BLACK MAN, telling us BLACK PEOPLE the BLACK TRUTH what you are talking about? You know there are countless blessed BLACK SCHOLARS who GOD RAISED UP to EXPOSE THE DECEITS, LIES, OF WHITES and so those BLACKS have well done, and I'm so proud of every single one of them aren't you? They are the sons of the African MOTHER vs. the treacherous African FATHER and his wretched sons and daughters who gladly bow prostrate before white fiends.

At any rate, I'll post as many links as I can find so that BLACK GIRLS who will come in now, or in the future will be enlightened by these FYI posts that I and other BLACK WOMEN post on as many BLACK SITES as we can find. TRUTH, the WHOLE TRUTH, and NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH that OUR COLLECTIVE BLACK DAUGHTERS can PONDER UPON.

In fact, I'll speed up the pace of this 'TRUTH-TELLING' EXHIBITION SHOW by posting as many proofs of BLACK/GODDESSES that are out there.

Now Watch this dragon er, I mean, drag-a-long uhm...of TRUTH Big Grin

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


THE ROMANI GODDESS KALI SARA

By Ronald Lee


While there are many Black Virgins and Black Madonnas in the Christian countries of the Mediterranean and elsewhere, the black statue worshipped by the Roma at Les Saintes Maries de la Mer in the Camargue in the South of France stands out as something of an enigma. The actual origin of this statue is lost in antiquity and there is no doubt that a Black Goddess must have existed there long before Christianity. According to some authorities the village now known as Les Saintes Maries de la Mer was originally known as Ratis, which means raft in Latin, and later, the church itself , which is shaped like a boat, and dates back at least to the 12th century, was for some time known as Notre Dame de Ratis (Our Lady of the Raft). There is also evidence that in the first century AD, Artemis, Cybele, Isis and the Celtic Triple Goddess, Matres had temples there.

With the advent of Christianity and the common practice of the early Christians which was to incorporate existing pagan shrines and their Gods and Goddesses into Christianity as churches and Saints, much like a modern Macdonald's Restaurant will be built on the site of a long-established and well-patronised eatery and raise the "Golden Arches", whatever Goddess or Triple Goddesses, may have existed there were transformed into the mythology of the Three Maries and a Christian church was constructed incorporating the original place of pagan worship. This legend has now taken many forms over the centuries. These include the official explanation presented by the Roman Catholic Church , local folk legends among the surrounding population, theories by authors and researchers who have attempted to explain the phenomenon and the folk legends of the Romani groups who attend the annual pilgrimage to the shrine at Les Saintes Maries on the 24th and 25th of May. from France and Spain and even as far away as Hungary, the Balkans and the Americas. Most of these Romani pilgrims spend a few days prior to May 24 camping in the area where they meet, exchange news, arrange marriages and perform music and dance to honour Kali Sara, make money from tourists through musical performances, hawking and other commercial activities and to enjoy themselves. They also hold a vigil during the night prior to the ceremony of May 25 in the crypt where the black statue is located. Romani musicians bring their instruments and play music to honour Kali Sara during this vigil. The church, strapped for funds, has endorsed the festival and conducts its own fund-raising activities.

By the Middle Ages there was a widespread legend in Provence, that Mary Jacobé, Mary Salomé and Mary Magdalene had arrived in the South of France after travelling from Palestine in a boat after the crucifixion of Christ. They then allegedly taught Christianity to the local population. This is mythology only, since official Christianity did not exist until long after the demise of these Biblical Maries. The exact location of this alleged landing was originally not defined. This legend mentions Sarah, a Black Egyptian servant who accompanied the three Maries and who sustained them while they were spreading the Gospel by travelling around begging alms. Another legend claims that Sarah, the Egyptian, spread her cloak on the water when the boat was in danger of sinking, thus enabling the three (now two) Maries to reach land safely. A Romani folk legend claims that Sarah was the "queen" of a Romani group living in the area when the three Maries arrived who became baptised and taught her people Christianity. This, of course, is not possible since the Roma did not leave India until the 11th century AD.

By 1438 the location of the actual landing was established as Les Saintes Maries where the present church, housing the two statues of the two white Maries and black "Saint Sarah" now stands. The pilgrimages are mentioned in the 15th century. ˜Egyptians" 1 the name then used to define the Roma in Europe, are mentioned as being present at the pilgrimages as early as the mid 15th century. This can be accepted since the Roma entered central Europe through Romania by the end of the 14th century and by the middle of the 15th century they had spread as far west as Spain and as far east as Poland/Lithuania. Their first documented appearance in France was in Paris in 1415.

In 1448, four decapitated female skeletons were discovered in the foundation of the church and were tentatively identified as those of the three Maries and Sarah, their Egyptian servant. Over time, Mary Magdalene disappeared from the trio of Maries and today, only Mary Jacobé and Mary Salomé are the official Saints of the Church. One legend says that Mary Magdalene became a hermit, grew her hair long and hid herself in a cave to atone for her sins. In any event, she has been forgotten by the Church and the official modern version of the legend offered by the Church authorities is that only the two Maries (Jacobé and Salomé) arrived in a boat from Palestine with their servant Sarah who is now called Saint Sarah despite the fact that officially there is no such saint in the hierarchy of Catholic saints. Equally mysterious is the presence of the black female statue in the crypt of the church. The present statue is said to have replaced an earlier statue, which in its turn replaced an earlier one, etc, etc. Just how long there has been a Black Madonna or a previous pagan Black Virgin in this location is unknown. The original statue has somehow been connected to the bones now in a casket which are said to be those of Sarah, originally the Egyptian servant later elevated to the status of a pseudo Saint by her devotees if not officially by the Church..

Any attempt to define who Kali Sara actually is or to explain how she came to be worshipped by the Roma within the context of the official dogma is doomed to failure unless the question is addressed from within the Romani culture. In the past, most of the Roma who attended the annual pilgrimage were from the French Sinti 1 and other Romani groups in France and the Spanish Calés 1, . During the Communist era, Roma in central/eastern Europe were prevented from attending and until inexpensive air travel became available, Roma from the Americas seldom attended. While the non-Romani pilgrims attend the festival to honour the two Mary's whose statues are carried into the nearby Mediterranean on May 24 and the ever increasing horde of tourists flock to the site just to see something colourful and take snapshots or video tapes, the Roma attend to worship "Saint Sarah" who is called Sara La Kali by the western-European Sinti and Calés or Kali Sara by the eastern-European Roma in the Romani dialects spoken by these two groups. Her ceremony takes place on May 25. Originally this was a purely Romani event but now the camera-wielding tourists, "Gypsyologists", anthropologists, professional and amateur filmmakers and other non-Roma usually outnumber the Roma.

Until recently it was widely believed that this worship of Kali Sara, the Romani Black Madonna or Goddess was unique to Les Saintes Maries de La Mer. My own recent research among Romani refugees from the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Poland and in countries of the Balkans has uncovered the little-known fact that other Black Virgins are worshipped by Roma in central/eastern Europe and that Roma from these countries perform similar rituals. These rituals include laying flowers at the feet of the statue, adorning the statue with clothing of the sick hoping for cures, placing requests to the statue, and lighting candles to the female divinity. To the Roma, Kali Sara is the Protectress who will cure sickness, bring good luck and fertility and grant success in business ventures.

The Romani ceremony at Les Saintes Maries, as elsewhere, consists of carrying the statue on a platform strewn with flowers into the closest body of water such as a sea, lake, flowing river or even a large pond of clear water. The platform is then lowered to touch the water while the crowd throws flowers into the water. Indian scholars such as Dr. Weer Rishi and others who have witnesses this Romani ceremony as well as Western observers who are familiar with Hindu religious customs have identified this ceremony with the Durga Pooja of India In Romani, Kali Sara means Black Sara and in India, the Goddess Kali is known as Kali/Durga/Sara. Like the Hindus, the Roma practice shaktism, the worship of Goddesses. In other words, the Roma who attend the pilgrimage to Les Saintes Maries in France and in other related ceremonies elsewhere honouring black female divinities, are in fact continuing to worship Kali/Durga/Sara their original Goddess in India.

According to the Durgasaptashati (seven hundred verses in the worship of Goddess Durga and her various forms), chapter 5, verse 12, which mentions Sara, contains the following: "Salute to Durga, Durgapara, (Deliver of all difficulties), Sara, (Embodiment of everything par-excellent), Cause of everything, Krishna and Dhurma (Evaporated form in smoke)." Other references in this ancient Hindu scripture also confirm that Sara is one and the same with the Indian goddess Durga who is also another aspect of Kali, the consort of Shiva.

The memory of Shiva himself has been preserved among the Roma as O Baró Devél in Romani. Thus, the Roma pray to Kali Sara to intercede with O Baro Devel to bring them luck, health and prosperity. During the ceremony of the Durga Pooja in India which takes place annually in October, a statue of Durga is carried on a platform into a body of water and immersed which destroys the statue. At Les Saintes Maries, the Roma do not immerse the statue but otherwise the two ceremonies are so similar that the similarity could not be accidental. In France, a reduced Kali Sara ceremony also takes place in October to complement the major festival of May.

The unexplained mystery is how the worship of Kali became fused with the Black Madonna in the crypt at Arles. Most likely there was always a Black Virgin at Les Saintes Maries dating back to Pagan times, which later became incorporated into Christianity. To explain the presence of this Black Statue, the church may have simply invented the legend of Sarah, the Egyptian servant of the Three Maries, now reduced to two with the passing of time and the Church's attitude towards "sin.". In other words, there must have been multiple overlays of the original Black Goddess whose name or names have been lost. Many cultures and religions have existed in the coastal region of Les Saintes Maries, perhaps Egyptians and Cretans, but certainly Phoenicians, who founded the colony of nearby Massalia (Marseilles), Gauls, Greeks, pre-Christian Romans, Christian Romans and the ancestors of the present population.

The Roma arrived early in the 15th century when they would have been forced to hide their original Indian beliefs and religious practices under a veneer of Christianity to escape condemnation and persecution by the Mediaeval Church, which began to root out heresy and witchcraft in the 15th century. To avoid charges of heresy and witchcraft they must have found this loophole which allowed them to continue to worship Kali in the guise of Sarah the Egyptian. King René d'Anjou of Provence was responsible for establishing the cult of the Maries and of Sarah the Egyptian in the 15th century. King René was reputedly the friend or lover of Joan of Arc and narrowly escaped charges of heresy himself because of his "pagan beliefs" and his founding of the Order of the Crescent which the Church viewed as suspiciously Islamic and also connected with the pagan worship of Isis. This was considered unacceptable to the Church which at that time was devoted to stamping out heresy. It was during his reign that the remains of the four unidentifiable, decapitated skeletons were discovered during excavations under the church. These were assumed to be those of the Three Maries and Sarah, the Egyptian. . This, however, conflicts with the bones found later, in a box under the church in 1496, which are also claimed to be those of Sarah the Egyptian servant of the original three Maries. Bones are bones and could have belonged to anybody including martyrs to some faith, Christian or non-Christian, human sacrifices to some long forgotten God or Gods, or even to some pious priestesses or temple virgins who died after a lifetime of service to some long forgotten Goddess. As far as is known, they have not been carbon tested to establish the date of demise which might help to solve the mystery.

Standard Christianity took a long time to become established in the Provence region of France and this may have created a refuge of tolerance where the Roma were able to worship Kali Sara unmolested. This was the location of the Cathars and the Albigenses, two Gnostic Christian groups who were mercilessly persecuted by thugs, pillagers, arsonists, murderers and rapists with an eye for loot masquerading under the guise of "Crusaders" recruited and blessed by the Pope of the era under the banner of Christ to wipe out "heresy" in the region. But until today, many survivals of pre-Christian religions survive in this area from the sacred white bulls and the horses of Provence, another ancient pagan legacy perhaps connected with the worship of Mithra, the tridents carried by the Guardians, the bull herdsmen who escort the statues of the Two Maries and of Kali Sara into the Mediterranean on May 24 and May 25 to the Black statue at Les Saintes Maries whose confused and multi-layered identity has allowed the Roma to worship Kali Sara in the guise of Saint Sarah while the original Black Goddess herself has refused to die but has suffered only many changes of names and identities with the passing of time.

Now, far from dead, in her Romani identity of Kali Sara she has migrated to Canada and her statue was recreated in Vancouver, BC, in 1998 where the first Kali Sara Festival ever held in Canada took place. In 2001, Kali Sara migrated to Toronto where another statue was created. My amazing discovery during these events was that the refugee Roma who have recently arrived in Canada from central/eastern Europe, including the Balkans, were quite aware of who Kali Sara was, and explained that she had her equivalents in their countries among the Roma. Even Muslim Roma described ceremonies similar to those of Kali Sara, where a female deity, E Guglí Sagíya – The guardian Angel, was worshipped by Muslim Roma in the South Balkans (former Rumelia) in order to bring health, luck and success. Thus, far from being an isolated survival of ancestral Hindu religious beliefs, the Roma worship of Kali Sara at Les Saintes Maries de la Mer is simply the best known of a religious practice among the Roma that is much more widespread in many countries of Europe and now, in Canada.

In Mexico, Mexican Roma also attend the festival of La Virgen de Guadalope which enables them to worship a female divinity sponsored by the Church. Again, in Sainte Anne de Beaupré, Quebec, Canadian and American Roma have attended the annual Novena held there on the week of July 24, 25 and 26 where they continue to practice shaktism. Here the central figure is Santana (Saint Ann) whom the Roma identify as E De Devleski (Mother of God or the Earth Mother). Special Romani ceremonies, differing from those of the non-Roma pilgrims are performed which are very similar to those performed at Les Saintes Maries to Kali Sara except that the statue of Sainte Anne is not removed from the crypt and carried into the nearby Saint Lawrence River. Thus, even when Kali Sara is not the focus of these ceremonies, Roma all over the world continue to worship female deities or saints in shrines located near bodies of water, honouring them with ceremonies that come not from Christianity but from Hinduism. The modern Romani cult of Kali Sara which is now taking root among the Roma, especially the younger generation, is more and more reverting to the concept that Kali Sara is an Indian deity brought from India by our refugee ancestors. We are removing her from any connection with Christianity unlike the older Roma in western Europe who were unaware of the true origin of Kali Sara since this knowledge had been lost. They simply continued the tradition of the pilgrimage which they had learned from their parents whose ancestors in western Europe had been forced to hide it in Christianity because of the Inquisition. Education is teaching the new generation of Roma who Kali Sara really is and that they, like her, originated in India. Kali Sara is now finally coming out of the closet and emerging as a Romani Goddess, the Protectress of the Roma and our indisputable link with Mother India, the cradle of our emerging Romani Nation.

Opré Roma!
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[This message was edited by Prophetessofrage on November 12, 2003 at 02:12 PM.]


[This message was edited by Prophetessofrage on November 12, 2003 at 02:18 PM.]
 
 
 
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November 12, 2003 5:01 PM

Black WOMEN ALONE, here is yet another person speaking the TRUTH with regard to BLACK GODDESSES. Wink



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Nephthys, Sister of Isis, Mistress of the House...
by Caroline Seawright
January 31, 2001

Nephthys, Sister of Isis, Mistress of the House...



Nephthys is one of the Egyptian goddesses who seems to have been ignored or pushed into the background. She didn't become a major cult figure, like her sister Isis, but one must remember that Nephthys, too, was a sibling of the most famous gods of ancient Egypt - Isis and Osiris. She was also the sister-wife of the god Set, the god of storms and the desert... and aunt to the god Horus.

Her Egyptian name Nebt-het (Neb-hut, Neb-hwt, Nebt-hut, Nebthet) means "Mistress of the House"...

...but by the word "house" we must understand that portion of the sky which was supposed to form the abode of the Sun-god Horus; in fact "het" in the name of Nebt-het is used in exactly the same sense as "het" in the name "Het-Hert," or Hathor, i.e., the "House of Horus."

-- Nephthys, TourEygpt

Despite being the wife of Set, she was seen as a loyal sister to her other siblings, helping Isis to gather Osiris' scattered limbs (after Set cut him into pieces), and helped her revive the dead god. She thus became associated with the dead, becoming a friend of the deceased. She offered guidance to the newly dead, and comfort to the family of the one who died. Along with Hapy - the baboon headed Son of Horus - she guarded the lungs in their canopic jar on the north cardinal point.

Nephthys saith unto the Osiris Ani, whose word is truth:- I go round about thee to protect thee, O brother Osiris. I have come to be a protector unto thee. [My strength shall be near thee, my strength shall be near thee, for ever. Ra hath heard thy cry, and the gods have made thy word to be truth. Thou art raised up. Thy word is truth in respect of what hath been done unto thee. Ptah hath overthrown thy foes, and thou art Horus, the son of Hathor.]

-- Speech of Nephthys, The Book of the Dead

She was depicted as a woman with the hieroglyph of her name (a basket and a house on top of each other) on her head, though she was also sometimes given wings or the form of a bird (the kite), making her a solar deity, as well as a deity of the dead. In the later period, she became the mother of Anubis (the god of the dead) through Osiris.

As comforter, she stood at the birth-bed to offer comfort and help with the birth of new born children - Isis was seen as the midwife. The two sisters were often together, only being able to be told apart by the hieroglyph on their heads. Also, like her sister, she was thought to have great magical powers - she was the Mighty One of Words of Power.

Yet, originally, where Isis was visible, birth, growth, development and vigour, Nephthys was invisible, death, decay, diminution and immobility. She was the darkness to Isis' light. Isis was the day, her twin sister the night.

The goddesses were personified by two priestesses who were virgins and who were ceremonially pure; the hair of their limbs was to be shaved off, they were to wear ram's wool garlands upon their heads, and to hold tambourines in their hands; on the arm of one of them was to be a fillet inscribed "To Isis," and on the arm of the other was to be a fillet inscribed "To Nephthys." On five days during the month of December these women took their places in the temple of Abtu (Abydos) and, assisted by the Kher Heb, or precentor, they sang a series of groups of verses to the god.

Here is an except from the 'Songs of Isis and Nephthys', sung to Osiris by the two priestesses:

Hail, thou lord of the underworld, thou Bull of those who are therein, thou Image of Ra-Harmachis, thou Babe of beautiful appearance, come thou to us in peace. Thou didst repel thy disasters, thou didst drive away evil hap; Lord, come to us in peace.

O Un-nefer, lord of food, thou chief, thou who art of terrible majesty, thou God, president of the gods, when thou dost inundate the land [all] things are engendered. Thou art gentler than the gods. The emanation of thy body make the dead and the living to live, O thou lord of food, thou prince of green herbs, thou mighty lord, thou staff of life, thou giver of offerings to the gods, and of sepulchral meals to the blessed dead. Thy souls flieth after Ra, thou shinest at dawn, thou settest at twilight, thou riseth every day; thou shalt rise on the left hand of Atmu for ever and ever. Thou art the glorious one, the vicar of Ra; the company of the gods cometh to thee invoking thy face, the flame whereof reacheth unto thine enemies. We rejoice when thou gatherest together thy bones, and when thou hast made whole thy body daily. Anubis cometh to thee, and the two sisters (i.e., Isis and Nephthys) come to thee. They have obtained beautiful things for thee, and they gather together thy limbs for thee, and they seek to put together the mutilated members of thy body. Wipe thou the impurities which are on them upon our hair and come thou to us having no recollection of that which hath caused thee sorrow.

Come thou in thy attribute of "Prince of the Earth," lay aside thy trepidation and be at peace with us, O Lord. Thou shalt be proclaimed heir of the world, and the One god, and the fulfiller of the designs of the gods. All the gods invoke thee, come therefore to thy temple and be not afraid. O Ra (i.e., Osiris), thou art beloved of Isis and Nephthys; rest thou in thy habitation for ever.

One of the reasons, during the later period of Egyptian history, given as to why Set and Osiris hate each other was because of Nephthys, Set's sister-wife. She was barren (she represented the desert, as did Set), and she hit on the plan of disguising herself as Isis and seducing Osiris. Getting Osiris drunk, Nephthys took Osiris to her bed, and the two had drunken sex together. Osiris dropped his garland of melilot flowers in the act of passion. Set found the adulterous goddess and the flowers, and knowing who the flowers belonged to, he began to plan Osiris' death. The child of this union was thought to be Anubis, god of mummification.
Now as the overflowings of the Nile are sometimes very great, and extend to the boundaries of the land, this gave rise to the story of the secret intercourse between Osiris and Nephthys, as the natural consequence of so great an inundation would be the springing up of plants in those parts of the country which were formerly barren.

-- Nephthys, TourEgypt

Among her titles, Nephthys was known as the Lady of the Body (of the Gods), the Dweller within Senu, Lady of Heaven, Mistress of the Gods, the Great Goddess and Lady of Life. Her major centres of worships were Senu, Hebet, (Behbit), Per-mert, Re-nefert, Het-sekhem, Het-Khas, Ta-kehset, and Diospolites. Her principal sanctuary was at Iunu (On, Heliopolis).

She was the darkness to Isis' light, the bareness to contrast her sister's fertility. Friend to the dead, their protector, she was a beneficial deity who offered both guidance and comfort. Although linked with death and decay, she was also a bringer of life into the world, and rebirth into the land of the dead. Leaving her husband Set, she became a follower of Osiris and a supporter of her sister. In Egyptian art, the twin sisters were almost always shown together. Great of magic, Nephthys was seen as a good goddess who would give them rebirth in the land of the dead, just as she had helped Osiris to be reborn.



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http://www.thekeep.org/~kunoichi/kunoichi/themestream/nephthys.html
 
 
 
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November 12, 2003 5:39 PM

Oh Pooh, black women, since there are so many OTHER PEOPLE PROCLAIMING THE SAME BLACK TRUTH, what the heck, golly gee, I'll just add yet another one to grow on:
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Kali, Black Mother Time
In Hindu India, all goddesses are ultimately one: Devi, whose name simply means "the goddess." But she takes different forms - perhaps a way of allowing limited human minds to fix on first one, the another, of her multiple possibilities. one of the most powerful, most common, and - to Western eyes - most terrifying of these forms is Kali ("black mother time"), the goddess who perpetually transforms life into a fascinating dance of death.

Her tongue juts out of her black face; her hands hold weapons; her necklace and earrings are strung with dismembered bodies. She seems at best a stern mistress, this shakti ("animating power") of the great destroyer Shiva, the dancing god. As Durga, Devi is personified as a just warrior, purging the world of evil; as Parvati, the same energy exemplifies passionate attachment to sexuality. But as Kali, the goddess is uncompromisingly alone, the mother of death that swims in her womb like a babe; she is the force of time leading ever onward to destruction, and then, when she has destroyed everything, Kali will be the timeless sleep from which new ages will awaken.

Kali first manifested herself when the demon Daruka appropriated divine power and threatened the gods. The powerful goddess Parvati knitted her brows in fury, and from her sprang three-eyed Kali, already armed with her trident. This emanation of Parvati quickly dispatched the demon and made the heavens safe again. Once born, this goddess remained in existence, beyond the control of even Parvati (of whom, it must be remembered, she is an aspect.)

Several famous myths tell just how uncontrollable Kali's energy is. Once, it was said, she dared to dance with Shiva, the lord of the dance. They grew wilder and wilder, more competitive in their dancing, until it seemed the world would shake itself to pieces - and so it will, for beneath all appearances that dance continues. Another time, it is said, Kali fought and killed two demons and celebrated her victory by draining their bodies of blood. then, drunk with slaughter, she began to dance. Thrilling to the feel of lifeless flesh beneath her naked feet, Kali danced more and more wildly - until she realized that Shiva himself was underneath her and she was dancing him to death. The god's tactic slowed Kali's wildness, but only for a moment, and eventually she will resume the dance that ends the world.

Kali is still one of India's most popular goddesses: her picture hangs in many homes, her name is familiar in Calcutta (anglicized from kali-ghatt, or "steps of kali," her temple city.) Served at one time by murderers called thuggee (from which derives the English word thug), the goddess of cemeteries was thought to thrive on blood; most often, however, goat rather than human blood was sacrificed to her, and it is still poured out in some parts of India today.

So terrifying do these bloody rites seem that few understand Kali's spiritual significance. As a symbol of worst we can imagine, as the most extreme picture of our fears, she offers us a chance to face down our own terror of annihilation. Ramakrishna and other great Indian poets sang rapturously of Kali, for they understood that she is a blissful goddess. Once faced and understood, these mystics say, Kali frees her worshippers of all fear and becomes the greatest of mothers, the most comforting of all goddesses.

http://www.asgard.gen.nz/pleasures/kali.html


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P.S. Wasn't that WHITE MAN HONORABLE? Only a FOOL would think I'm NOT calling THEM A FOOL....hey, it bears repeating, what a fool, er, I mean, tool. Big Grin
 
 
 
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November 12, 2003 6:07 PM

prophetess,

You haven't been paying attention. Your supposed authority says that Mary Magdalene is not a saint of the Church?

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09761a.htm

is a Catholic website you'll want to visit listing Mary Magdalene as an official saint of the Church.

That would have been easy to check.

Most of your posting was irrelevant. Nobody has ever said that there were not black goddesses. Where you have been proven wrong is in saying that Mary is known to have been black.

What you have posted recently has shown that protraits of Mary in Europe were often based on the preexisting Earth Goddess (or other).

But that's what I have been saying all along. The representations of the Madonna are not true. We don't know what Mary looked like, so all the portraits of her are false.

Your original post on Califa, the Amazon (not African) queen of California, was silly because Califa never existed. She was the creation of a novelist who wrote a very popular work of fiction in Spain twenty-four years before California was discovered.

Now you range far afield, changing the subject every time you post, apparently hoping that the flood of words--that you do not even write, you just cut and paste--will somehow "prove" your false thesis, which you seem to be changing, but it's hard to tell since you don't really say much about what you post. You just quote.

So there were black goddesses in antiquity. There were lots of goddesses in antiquity. That doesn't mean that they existed. It doesn't mean anything except that they were created in someone's mind, like a novel.

I suppose that if you feel better because someone created a black goddess centuries ago, I'm happy for you. But making your worth depend on the imagination of someone a thousand years ago is really pretty pitiful.
 
 
 
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November 13, 2003 2:28 PM

I agree with Melesi...this entire post is foolish! This "prophetess" needs to check herself before she wrecks herself....
 
 
 
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November 13, 2003 3:45 PM

With Black Athena into the third millennium CE?

by Wim van Binsbergen


[ A much shorter version of this paper was published as: van Binsbergen, W.M.J., 1999, ˜With Black Athena into the third millennium CE?', in: Docter, R.E., & Moormann, E.M., eds., Proceedings of the XVth International Congress of Classical Archaeology, Amsterdam, July 12-17, 1998: Classical Archaeology towards the Third Millennium: Reflections and Perspectives: [ Volume I: ] Text, Amsterdam: Allard Pierson Museum, Allard Pierson Series, vol. 12, pp. 425-427 ]



1. Introduction[1]
Despite unmistakable hopes to the contrary on the part of the editors of the 1996 collection of critical essays Black Athena revisited,[2] the Black Athena debate is still alive and kicking. With understandable delay, more volumes of Black Athena[3] have been projected by Martin Bernal, as well as a defiant answer[4] to the Black Athena revisited, under the title Black Athena writes back.[5] The collection I edited in 1997, Black Athena Ten Years After, reopened the debate again after Black Athena Revisited. Meanwhile the sociologist of religion Jacques Berlinerblau published his Heresy in the University,[6] a reliable exegesis and balanced (so fairly positive and constructive) critique of the work of Bernal. Enough material, debate and reflection has now been generated for us to try and sort out whatever lasting contribution Bernal may have made, sifting such support and acclaim as he has received "” from his obvious errors and one-sidedness which the mass of critical writing on this issue since 1987 has brought to light. In what ways, on what grounds, and under which stringent methodological and epistemological conditions, does Martin Bernal's crusade deserve to have a lasting impact on our perception of the ancient eastern Mediterranean?

I shall reserve for another occasion the assessment of Bernal's impact on our perception of Africa. I have just completed a 400-page book devoted to this topic.[7]



2. Martin Bernal's Black Athena project
British-born Martin Bernal (1937- ) is a Cambridge (U.K.)-trained Sinologist. His specialisation on the intellectual history of Chinese/ Western exchanges around 1900 CE,[8] in combination with his "” at the time "” rather more topical articles on Vietnam in the New York Review of Books, earned him, in 1972, a professorship in the Department of Government at Cornell University, Ithaca (N.Y., U.S.A.). There he was soon to widen the geographical and historical scope of his research, as indicated by the fact that already in 1984 he was to combine this appointment with one as adjunct professor of Near Eastern Studies at the same university. Clearly, in mid-career he had turned[9] to a set of questions which were rather remote from his original academic field. At the same time they are crucial to the North Atlantic intellectual tradition since the eighteenth century CE, and to the way in which this tradition has hegemonically claimed for itself a place as the allegedly unique centre, the original historical source, of the increasingly global production of knowledge in the world today. Is "” as in the dominant Eurocentric view "” modern global civilisation the product of an intellectual adventure that started, as from scratch, with the ancient Greeks "” the unique result of the latter's unprecedented and history-less achievements? Or is the view of the Greek (read European) genius as the sole and oldest source of civilisation, merely a racialist, Eurocentric myth? If the latter, its double aim has been to underpin delusions of European cultural superiority in the Age of European Expansion (especially the nineteenth century CE), and to free the history of European civilisation from any indebtedness to the (undoubtedly much older) civilisations of the region of Old World agricultural revolution, extending from the once fertile Sahara and from Ethiopia, through Egypt, Palestine and Phoenicia, to Syria, Anatolia, Mesopotamia, Iran "” thus encompassing the narrower Fertile Crescent "” and the Indus Valley. Here Minoan, subsequently Mycenaean Crete occupies a pivotal position as either ˜the first European civilisation in the Eastern Mediterranean'; or as an ˜Afroasiatic'-speaking island outpost of more ancient West Asian and Egyptian cultures; or as both at the same time. Foreboding the later dependence of medieval European civilisation on Arab and Hebrew sources, bernal claims a vital ˜Afroasiatic' (or rather, African and Asian; Afroasiatic is only one of the language families likely to be involved) contribution to the very origins of the Greek, subsequently European, now North Atlantic, and increasingly global, civilisation.

Bernal's monumental Black Athena, projected as a tetralogy of which so far the first two volumes have been published, addresses these issues along two main lines of argument. The first volume, besides presenting an extremely ambitious but deliberately unsubstantiated and scarcely referenced preview of the promised findings of the project as a whole, is mainly a fascinating exercise in the history and sociology of European academic knowledge. It traces the historical awareness, among European cultural producers, of ancient Europe's intellectual indebtedness to Africa and Asia, as well as the subsequent repression of such awareness with the invention of the ancient Greek miracle since the 18th century CE. The second line of argument, of which volume two has been the first instalment, presents the converging historical, archaeological, linguistic and mythological evidence for this indebtedness. This historical dependence is then symbolised by Bernal's re-reading (after Herodotus)[10] of Athena, apparently the most ostentatiously Hellenic of ancient Greek deities, as a peripheral Greek emulation of the goddess Neith of Saïs "” as Black Athena.

Reception of the two volumes of Black Athena so far has been chequered. Classicists, who read the work not so much as a painstaking critique of North Atlantic Eurocentric intellectual culture as a whole but as a denunciation of their very discipline by an author who continues to insist on his outsidership, have often been viciously dismissive; less so "” especially before the publication of Volume II "” specialists in archaeology, the cultures and languages of the Ancient Near East, and comparative religion. Virtually every critic has been impressed with the extent and depth of Bernal's scholarship and puzzled by his aloofness from current debates not initiated by himself.[11] And all complain of his lack of methodological, theoretical, and epistemological sophistication.

Where Bernal's central thesis was picked up most enthusiastically, was in the circles of African American intellectuals. Here the great present-day significance of Black Athena was rightly recognised: not so much as a purely academic correction of remote, ancient history, but as a revolutionary contribution to the global politics of knowledge in our own age and time. The liberating potential of Bernal's thesis has been that it has accorded intellectuals from outside the politically and materially dominant North Atlantic, White tradition an independent, even senior, historical birth-right to full admission and participation under the global intellectual sun. Egypt is claimed to have civilised Greece, and from there it is apparently only one step to the vision that Africa, the South, Black people, have civilised Europe, the North, White people. Admittedly, this ideological triumph is only produced by sleight-of-hand, for it is very far from obvious that ancient Egypt can be equated, by pars pro toto, with Africa, let alone sub-Saharan Africa; in fact this is not the case at all.[12] Nonetheless, coming from a White upper-class academician who is socially and somatically an outsider to Black issues, Black Athena's impact has been considerable. Black Athena is built into the ongoing construction of a militant Black identity, offering as an option "” not contemptuous rejection, nor parallel self-glorification as in the context of Senghor's and Césaire's négritude, in the face of the dominant, White, North Atlantic model, but "” the explosion of that model. And much of the aggression leveled against Bernal is based on alarm over the politicising and erosion of scholarship in the face of militant Afrocentrism.

Given the phenomenal expansion of Ancient Near Eastern and Egyptological studies in the course of the twentieth century, we should not have needed Bernal, in the first place, to broadcast the insight of multicentred cultural development in the ancient eastern Mediterranean, and as a consequence the fact of classical Greek civilisation's indebtedness to West Asia and to northeastern Africa including Egypt. Ex oriente lux has been the slogan of an increasing number of students of the Ancient Near East since the beginning of the twentieth century.[13] Ex Oriente Lux of course has also been, for decades, the name of the Dutch society for the study of the Ancient Near East, and of its journal.[14] M. Liverani[15] meanwhile calls our attention to the essential Eurocentrism implied in the slogan, which he therefore refuses to accept as a valid guideline for ancient history today:

˜The shift of cultural primacy from the Near East to Greece (the one dealt with in Bernal's book) was interpreted in line with two slogans: Ex Oriente Lux (...) mostly used by Orientalists) and ˜The Greek miracle' (mostly used by classicists). These slogans appeared to represent opposing ideas but in fact were one and the same notion: the Western appropriation of ancient Near Eastern culture for the sake of its own development' (p. 423).

The message of Europe's cultural indebtedness to the Ancient Near East however was scarcely welcome when it was first formulated, and imaginative Semitist scholars like Gordon and Astour found themselves under siege when they published their significant contributions in the 1960s. Even if Europe's great cultural indebtedness to the Ancient Near East is no longer the secret it was a hundred years ago, given the hostile reception this insight received right up to the 1980s Bernal may be admired for popularising this crucial insight. Black Athena has done a lot to make it available to circles thirsting for it while building and rebuilding their own identity. Meanwhile Bernal himself does not claim excessive originality for his views:

˜...it should be clear to any reader that my books are based on modern scholarship. The ideas and information I use, do not always come from the champions of conventional wisdom, but very few of the historical hypotheses put forward in Black Athena are original. The series' originality comes from bringing together and making central, information that has previously been scattered and peripheral'.[16]

Does Bernal's thesis on the European history of ideas concerning Egypt, and his stress on the role of Egypt in the context of actual cultural exchanges in the eastern Mediterranean in the third and second millennium BCE, stand up to the methodological and factual tests of the various disciplines concerned?



3. Modified diffusionism
The controversial nature of the Black Athena thesis, combined with the unmistakable methodological and theoretical oddities of its author, have tempted many critics to resort to caricature when summarising Bernal's position. One such a caricature is that he tries to reduce Greek culture to the flotsam of intercontinental diffusion. However, the problematic of cultural creativity in a context of diffusion is far from lost on Martin Bernal,[17] whose self-identification as a ˜modified diffusionist' precisely seeks to capture the difference between the obsolete model of mechanical transmission and wholesale adoption of unaltered cultural elements from distant provenance, and the far more attractive model that insists on a local, creative transformation of the diffused material once it has arrived at the destination area.[18] Despite his occasional Egyptocentric lapses into a view of diffusion as automatic and one-way, Bernal often shows that he is aware of the tensions between diffusion and transformative localisation:[19]

˜While I am convinced that the vast majority of Greek mythological themes came from Egypt or Phoenicia, it is equally clear that their selection and treatment was characteristically Greek, and to that extent they did reflect Greek society.'[20]

Admittedly, part of the production systems, the language, the gods and shrines, the myths, the magic and astrology, the alphabet, the mathematics, the nautical and trading skills, of the ancient Greeks were not their own original inventions but had clearly identifiable antecedents among their longer established cultural neighbours. Already the truncated previews of prospective results in Black Athena I "” previews which should never have been seriously discussed before their full argument in the Black Athena volumes yet to be published "” created heated debate as to the possible Egyptian antecedents of classical Greek science and philosophy. Here Bernal finds against not only implacable foes like Robert Palter,[21] but also the Egyptological archaeologist Trigger who is otherwise very sympathetic to the Black Athena project as a whole.[22] The evidence from the Ancient Near East, however, has also been read to support Bernal's view, and polemics concerning the Afroasiatic roots of Greek philosophy and science have gained prominence in the Black Athena debate; as a professor of intercultural philosophy the issue is of great interest to me, but a congress on classical archaeology is not the most suitable setting to pursue it any further.[23]



4. The Black Athena debate
The publication of Volume II in 1991 meant not only a further increase of the number of disciplines involved in the debate,[24] but also a marked change of tone. As long as the Black Athena project remained (as in Volume I) essentially a review of the image of Egypt in European intellectual history, the project was by and large welcomed for its solid foundation in scholarship, and critical sense of Eurocentric and racialist prejudices informing previous generations of classicists now long dead.[25] Glen Bowersock, the leading American classicist, proved far from blind to the oddities even of Volume I, yet he could declare:

˜This is an astonishing work, breathtakingly bold in conception and passionately written. It is the first of three projected volumes that are designed to undermine nothing less than the whole consensus of classical scholarship, built up over two hundred years, on the origins of ancient Greek civilization. (...) Bernal shows conclusively that our present perception of the Greeks was artificially pieced together between the late eighteenth century and the present. (...) Bernal's treatment of this theme is both excellent and important.'

However, when Volume II was published four years later, it addressed the specifics of eastern Mediterranean ancient history "” a topic constituting the life's work of hundreds of living researchers. And it did so in a truly alarming fashion, less well written than Volume I, invoking yet more contentious Egyptian etymologies for ancient Greek proper names and lexical items (yet by and large much sounder than the Ht Nt one), insisting on the cultic penetration not only of Neith but of specific minor Egyptian gods to the Aegean, relying on mythological material as if whatever kernels of historical fact this might contain could readily be identified, claiming physical Egyptian presence in the Aegean by reference to irrigation works, a monumental tumulus, and traditions of a Black pharaoh's military campaign into South Eastern Europe and adjacent Asia, playing havoc with the established chronologies of the Ancient Near East, attributing the Mycenaean shaft graves to Levantine invaders identified as early Hyksos yet bringing Egyptian culture, and reiterating a sympathy for Afrocentrist ideas which meanwhile had become rather more vocal and politicised in the U.S.A. It was at this stage that many scholars parted company with Bernal and that genuine and justified scholarly critique was combined with right-wing political contestation against the unwelcome, anti-Eurocentric, inter­cultural and intercontinental message of the Black Athena project as a whole "” a development formalised and meant to be finalised by the publication of Black Athena revisited in 1996 under the editorship of Mary Lefkowitz and Guy MacLean Rogers.

One thing which the editors of Black Athena revisited have certainly managed to bring about, is a state of alarm and embarrassment among all scholars and lay people seriously interested in pursuing the perspectives which Martin Bernal has sought to open in the Black Athena volumes. And this is a real problem also in the context of my own current work, precisely because it finds itself in sympathy with Bernal's. How could one honestly and publicly continue to derive inspiration from an author whose work has been characterised in the following terms by a well-informed critic like Robert Palter:

˜...those today who are seriously concerned with formulating a radical political critique of contemporary scholarship (...) might wish to think twice before associating themselves with the methods and claims of Bernal's work; (...) for his lapses in the most rudimentary requirements of sound historical study "” traditional, critical, any kind of historical study "” should make one wary of his grandiose historiographical pronouncements. (...) In the absence of adequate controls on evidence and argument, the view of history presented in Black Athena is continually on the verge of collapsing into sheer ideology.'[26]

Sarah Morris praises the critical self-reflection Black Athena has brought about among classicists, but finds this too dearly paid for in terms of unwarranted politicising of the scholarship of the Ancient Near East:

˜On the other hand, it has bolstered, in ways not anticipated by the author, an Afrocentrist agenda which returns many debates to ground zero and demolishes decades of scrupulous research by excellent scholars such as Frank Snowden. An ugly cauldron of racism, recrimination, and verbal abuse has boiled up in different departments and disciplines; it has become impossible for professional Egyptologists to address the truth without abuse, and Bernal's arguments have only contributed to an avalanche of radical propaganda without basis in fact'.[27]

Mary Lefkowitz says she does not doubt Bernal's good intentions yet finds him criminally guilty of what must be, especially in her eyes, the greatest crime: providing apparently serious, scholarly fuel to what otherwise might have remained the Afrocentrist straw fire:

˜To the extent that Bernal has contributed to the provision of an apparently respectable underpinning for Afrocentric fantasies, he must be held culpable, even if his intentions are honorable and his motives are sincere.'[28]

Yet all this cannot be the entire story. How else to account, for instance, for the praise which the prominent Egyptologist and archaeologist B.G. Trigger piles on Black Athena? He sees Martin Bernal's project certainly not as a mere exercise in consciousness-raising meant for Blacks in search of identity,[29] but as a serious contribution to the history of archaeology "” one of his own specialisms[30] "” and as a stimulating pointer at the possibilities of innovation in that discipline, which he considers to be bogged down by processual scientism.[31] Yet even Trigger stresses Bernal's methodological inadequacies, rejects his contentious chronology particularly with regard to the Hyksos. As an Egyptologist Trigger remains healthily unconvinced by Bernal's argument in favour of the possibility of extensive Asian and European campaigns by Senwosret I or III in the early second millennium BCE. and criticises the way in which he tends to take ancient myth as a statement of fact. Given the large numbers of both Egyptian and Greek myths, Trigger argues, it is easy for any scholar to take his pick and claim historical connections between selections from both sets "” again the point of methodology. In 1997, I adopted the same position as Trigger,[32] but m eanwhile I have grown convinced, on the basis of a far more detailed study of Egypto-Hellenic mythical parallels,[33] that with a better methodology Bernal's intuitions concerning the Egyptian and Phoenician provenance of the majority of Hellenic myths may yet be salvaged.

The factual, chronological and methodological chords struck by Trigger as a thoroughly sympathetic reviewer reverberate, with dissonants and fortissimi, throughout Black Athena revisited and the other venues of the Black Athena debate. Many complain of the defects and even of the absence of methodology in Bernal's writings. Yet such criticism often turns out to be difficult to substantiate, e.g. the utterly unconvincing two methodological case studies by Palter.[34] However, E. Hall[35] convincingly shows the methodological naïvety of Bernal's handling of mythical material. Meanwhile, Bernal prides himself, and not entirely without justification, precisely on the explicitly theoretical nature of his approach and his attention for factors relating to the sociology of knowledge, which, he argues[36] constitutes the main difference between his work and e.g.: Morenz's Die Begegnung Europas met Ägypten.[37]

Many critics are appalled by what they consider to be Bernal's confusion of culture, ethnicity and race.[38] They suspect him of a nineteenth-century, lapidary belief in physical displacements of people through migration and conquest as prime explanatory factors in cultural change. They blame him for an unsystematic and linguistically incompetent handling of etymologies.

Many critics do not so much find fault with his specific points but simply "” and clearly for disciplinary, internal, rather than political and external reasons "” refuse to recognise his approach as legitimate, up-to-date ancient history.[39] Thus the eminent ancient historian James Muhly,[40] who summarises his methodological objections in Bernal's own words:

˜it is difficult for the scholar without a discipline ˜˜going it alone'', to know where to stop' .[41]

According to Baines[42] the notion of paradigms may be scarcely applicable in the field of ancient history:

˜Despite the extended applications of Kuhn's term that have appeared since the publication of his book [Kuhn's, i.e. The structure of scientific revolutions, o.c.], ancient Near Eastern studies are not a ˜science' or a discipline in the Kuhnian sense. Rather, they are the sum of a range of methods and approaches applied to a great variety of materials from a particular geographical region and period; even definitions of the area and period are open to revision. So far as the ancient Near East relates to ˜paradigms', these are, for example, theories of social complexity and change, or in other cases theories of literary form and discourse. This point is where Bernal's aims depart farthest from those of many specialists in ancient Near Eastern studies.'

Many critics question whether Bernal's stated intention of trying to understand Greek civilisation is sincere: all they can see is an obsession with provenance, with intercontinental cultural displacement, and with late 20th century CE identity politics, but certainly no coherent and empathic appreciation of the inner structure, the moral and aesthetic orientations, religious experience and life world of the Ancient Egyptians, Levantines and Greeks.[43] This is a fair criticism, to which we shall; come back below.

Although Volume I of Black Athena contains numerous previews, only sparingly referenced, of the conclusions envisaged for the subsequent volumes dealing with the ancient history of the eastern mediterranean basin, that volume is first of all an exercise in the European history of ideas. Various critics have deplored what they consider the incompetence with which Bernal treats what he considers a flow of Egyptian knowledge which "” often under the name of hermetism "” allegedly has permeated the European culture of esoterism ever since Late Antiquity. It is difficult to say whether the dismissive views of these critics do not simply dervie from their own dismay to see so-called ˜pseudo-sciences' as astrology, geomancy and alchemy, or invented traditions like freemasonry, elevated to the respectable status of vehicles of the secret transmission of Egyptian knowledge.[44] This is, incidentally, how many occultists across the centuries have viewed the situation. Some recent studies of the Hermetic tradition, respectable and without the slightest connection with the Black Athena debate,[45] would tend to a related view: they see European esoterism as a vehicle, not directly of Ancient Egyptian thought during the dynastic period spanning the three millennia before the Common Era, but certainly as a vehicle of esoteric thought in Late Antiquity, whose detailed relations with the dynastic period remains, admittedly, to be assessed by Egyptologists. Whatever the case may be, from Late Antiquity to the Enlightenment Europe's intellectual production has been massively (not to say predominently) in the esoteric field, producing an enormous literature which relatively few researchers can claim to overlook with competence;[46] if Bernal is not one of them, his expolorations are at least courageous and stimulating.

With the intellectual history of the 18th and 19th century we are on much more familiar errain. Here the specialists have little difficulty showing that some of Bernal's allegedly racist villains (Kant, Goethe, Lessing, Herder) were in fact "” at least at the height of their career "” heroes of intercultural learning and modernity's theoreticians of tolerance, recognised as such in the whole world.[47] Josine Blok offers a penetrating discussion of this dimension of Bernal's work.[48] Bernal's limited mastery of the German language "” alredy manifet in the considerable number of typographical errors marking the German entries in his bibliographies "” is perhaps partly responsible for his errors on this point: he was forced to base his analysis on English translations and on the secondary literature.



5. Critical themes
We may appreciate, at this point, a number of critical themes which apply to the Black Athena debate as a whole.

In the first place, the search for origins (which are often imperceptible anyway) belongs to the realm of parochial, ethnocentric identity construction more than to the realm of detached scholarship. Bernal argues "” grosso modo convincingly despite too many errors in detail "” how one particular view of ancient Greek history has served Eurocentric interests, but of course, his alternative inevitably serves other ideological interests, as demonstrated by his rapprochement to the Afrocentrist movement among Black intellectuals. Ironically, the very title and slogan Black Athena reveal that Bernal employs the language of race in order to drive home his anti-racist, anti-Eurocentric message; clearly there is some more liberation to be done here.

Secondly, identification of provenance does not preclude the crucial importance of transformative localisation after the borrowed cultural product has reached "” as a process of diffusion "” its destination area. There is plenty of evidence that Greek lexical items, the proper names of Gods, the myths in which they feature, and elements of philosophy and science "” as well as many tangible traces of these cultural domains such as enter the field of classical archaeology "” do derive from Ancient Near Eastern (including Egyptian) prototypes, but that does not preclude at all that these cultural achievements, once arrived in the Aegean, have gone through a complex and unpredictable local history which truly made them into eminently Greek achievements.

The same reasoning applies to Bernal's central show-piece, the Greek goddess Athena herself. To the many etymologies of her name which scholarship has produced over the centuries[49] Bernal has added a new one deriving from the ancient Egyptian /Ht Nt, ˜temple of Neith'. Libyan Neith was a major Egyptian goddess in the Archaic period (3100 BCE)[50] and went through a revival under the seventh century BCE Twenty-sixth Dynasty from Saïs, when Greek mercenaries were prominent. Even though the specific etymology must be considered effectively refuted on grounds of historical linguistics,[51] the wealth of iconographic and semantic detail which Bernal adduces makes is quite conceivable that the link between the Greek goddess Athena, patron goddess of the major city of Greek civilisation in its heyday, and her Egyptian counterpart Neith, did go rather further than a mere superficial likeness cast in terms of the interpretatio graeca. Was the goddess Athena the product of the adoption, into some Northern Mediterranean backwater, of splendid and time-honoured Egyptian cultural models "” as a result of colonisation and military campaigns, of Hyksos penetration, of trade? Can such adoption serve as an emblem for far more massive Egyptian civilising action in the Aegean during the Bronze Age? Then why do we find so tantalisingly little of this in the archaeological record from the Bronze Age Aegean, the evidence even for Egyptian influence on Minoan Crete being extremely limited and indirect?[52]

Of course, a considerable part of volume II of Black Athena is devoted to an argument to the effect that this paucity of archaeological traces is in fact a result of scholarly myopia, exhorting us to consider the available evidence in a new light.[53] But few specialists have been convinced by this.

What theory do we need in order to accommodate both the lexical and mythological continuities between ancient Egypt and the Aegean, and the lack of archaeological traces of such continuity? To what concrete ethnographic situation, to what specific social mechanism does such a stragely selective process of cultural transmission correspond? Perhaps to that of travellors who have migration unvoluntarily and temporarily from Crete to the Egypt of the Middle or New Kingdom: indentured artisans (perhaps like those who created the minoan frescoes recently discovered in the city of Avaris, in the delta)[54] who remained long enough in Egypt to be sufficiently exposed to cultural (including mythological) and linguistic influences, but who were at the same time to poor, too closely supervised, or too much under the spell of their own ethnic chauvinism or of some religious prohibition, to prevent them from importing foriegh artefacts into minoan Crete. Another possibility which might explain the abondance of linguistic, religious and mythological traces of a cultural flow from Egypt to the Aegean combined with the paucity of traces in the field of material culture, is that of a model of cultural diffusion revolving on immigrant strangers, relatively isolated from their birth land (notably Egypt and Egyptianised regions such as Phoenicia) and without military and economic power; such strangers might have installed themselves on Aegean soil offering to the locals the only resource at their command: their expertise in a mythical-cultic system deriving from Egypt and having gained a great prestige in the entire ancient eastern Mediterranean. This is in fact the model which best fits the mythological accounts of Kadmos, Danaos etc., which feature centrally in the Black Athena debate. For a historical parallel we may think, for example, of the role which individual marabouts (holy men) have played in the repeated re-islamisation of the North African countryside in the course of many centuries, or of the Christian missionaries from the British Isles who converted Northwestern Europe in the second half of the first millennium of the Common Era; in both cases, the immigrant religious specialists left an enormous religious, mythological (or hagiographic, as the case may be) and linguistic influence, unmatched with a great deal of imported artefacts from their respective countries of origin.

Whatever model may fit the postulated influence of ancient Egypt upon the Aegean, the important point here is both to acknowledge the Egyptian, or in general Ancient Near Eastern, essential contributions to Greek classical civilisation (the argument of diffusion), and to recognise at the same time that Athena outgrew her presumable Egyptian origin, increasingly severing such Egyptian ties as she may once have had, integrating in the emergent local culture, and transforming in the process (the argument of subsequent localisation). She ended up as an important cultic focus and identity symbol of local cultural achievements which were, in the end, distinctively Greek.[55]

The third observation to be made concerns methodology. We have no direct knowledge of the pattern of the past. If our historical pronouncements are scientific, it is because they are based on the processing of all available evidence in the light of explicit and repeatable methods and procedures, before the international forum of academic peers. So much for the outsider going it alone, like Bernal; he even constructs himself to be an outsider to an extent impossible for someone who, ever since 1984, has been a professor of Near Eastern Studies at Cornell. His pride in reviving scholarly views of the early twentieth century, his doggedly sticking to the /Ht Nt-Athena etymology even while admitting that it can only be sustained by a recourse to contingency, not systematic linguistic law, in general his responsive overkill vis-à-vis his critics, and the ready accusation (by reference to what Bernal monopolises as ˜the sociology of knowledge') of ulterior, Eurocentric or racialist ideological motives as ultimate argument against his many opponents "” all this shows a strange mixture of empiricist realism and political idealism, a shocking lack of method and epistemology, and a tragic denial of the social, collective component as a necessary for scholarship.

Yet method is not everything in the field of research, and the most precious ideas often derive, beyond posaic and routine rules, from an intuition which after all, in the words of Spinoza, is the highest form of knowledge. Bernal possesses a mysterious talent for producing profoundly illuminating, sound intuitions which he subsequently seeks to substantiate with unacceptable methods. Of course this is not as it should be, but it is eminently forgiveable in view of the alternative: scientific research which is methodologically impeccable and sound, but lacks true intellectual challenge and progress. After several years of intensive participation in the Black Athena debate, in the course of which I have familiarised myself with Egyptian mythology and with the ancient Egyptian language, it is Bernal's claims in the mythological and etymological domain which, to my mind, stand out most convincingly.

˜Naturally, I maintain that the reason it is so remarkably easy to find correspondences between Egyptian and Greek words is that between 20 and 25 percent of the Greek vocabulary does in fact derive from Egyptian!'[56]

This precise statistical statement is often repeated (but with different outcomes!) in Bernal's work, Yet the numerical procedures underpinning it have so far not been made explicit by him. Meanwhile the sample of proposed Egyptian etymologies of Greek words as included in his ˜Responses to Black Athena'[57] may convince the reader that, at least at the qualitative level, the claim is not without grounds. But here again it is the utter absence of an explicit and approved method "” ignorance even of such methods are have been developed in these fields "” which produces unsystematic and unconvincing results. Bernal's proposed etymologies have to be browsed together from all over his published work,[58] and they usually remain at the level of isolated lexical atoms, "” his greatest handicap after all is his lack of sociological and cultural imagination which allows him to conjure up a coherent image of a living culture, rather than a loose bundle of provenances that have virtually died in transit.

By the same token, he handles myth as if its historical contents is self-evident and non-problematic, and is entirely unaware of the great advances in the science of myth analysis since the nineteenth century. One would be justified, from a theoretical and methodological point of view, to reject Bernal's conclusions on these points. Yet I now find that I have to come back upon my earlier scepticism concerning an alleged Egyptian provenance, in this case of Athenean foundation myths. [59] In my forthcoming book Global bee flight I have meanwhile produced detailed and theoretically informed analyses of the transformations of Egyptian (and Libyan) myths on their way into the Aegean and into Africa.[60] I am as convinced of the soundness of Bernal's general intuition on these points, as of the methodological defects of his specific analysis.

The fourth observation to be made, finally, concerns the mechanical juxtaposition of the Indo-European and the Afroasiatic language families as if this would sum up all there is to be said about cultural interactions in the ancient eastern Mediterranean. The juxtaposition springs from Bernal's obsession with language as a key to cultural history, which is also responsible for the misnomer ˜Afroasiatic roots of classical Greek civilization'. The juxtaposition creates a sense of ˜either/ or' which eminently befits the political rhetoric underlying the Black Athena debate (Black versus White; radical and liberation-orientated versus ethnocentric; the rest of the world versus Europe) but which obscures such continuity as may underlie (in Sumerian, Nostratic etc.) the actual cultural dynamics in this region. More importantly, that continuity may extend to what now remains an uninvited guest: an ancient Mediterranean linguistic and cultural substratum, wedging in between Indo-European and Afroasiatic, which specialists have invoked time and again for etymological and religious reconstructions of the ancient Mediterranean, and which provides a far more convincing model of cultural exchanges "” within a region already displaying fundamental continuities and similarities from Neolithic times "” than a simple diffusion, as late as the Bronze Age, from one privileged source notably ancient Egypt. Thus I find it much more attractive to view Athena and Neith as closely related branches from a stem which, throughout the ancient eastern Mediterranean, has produced Great Goddesses with connotations of underworld, death, and violence "” connotations which were often (although not in Athena's case) emblematised in bee symbolism. In this way one may bring forward a bit the problem of the etymology of the names of Athena and Neith: the two female deities, and their names, are not derivations from one another, but both are probably derivations from a deity which is not so much Egyptian or Libyan but West Asiatic, -- a goddess whose name we know under the form of Anat or Anath.[61] The argument of GLobal bee flight "” although inspired by Bernal "” effectively explodes the Black Athena thesis, since it dissolves the very contradiction between Indo-European and Afroasiatic as the source of Aegean civilisation, and would draw on a substratum which, contrary to the Afroasiatic one, could not readily be relegated to an African provenance.[62] It was the interaction between an African and an eastern mediterranean cultural tradition which produced, in the first place, the political system, the culture and the society of ancient Egypt. Once in place, this ancient Egyptian culture has, in its turn, in the course of three millennia exerted a decisive influence (with predictable feed-back phenomena, considering the original cultural indebtedness of ancient Egypt to these region) on the eastern Mediterranean, North Africa, and subsaharan Africa. Of all these ramifications, Global bee flight will only explore those relating to sub-Saharan Africa, especially in the fields of sacred kingship and myth.



6. Towards a re-assessment "” and beyond
All this leads on to a re-assessment of the Black Athena project.

Volume I was an eminently successful explosion of the Eurocentric myth of the autonomous origin of Greek civilisation "” a liberating act of deconstruction of previous scholars' myths worthy of the greatest respect (and, incidentally, one in which specifically Bernal's skill as a trained historian employing an implicit but time-honoured methodology produced an argument largely[63] away from myth).

Volume II, lacking such methodology and venturing into a domain where the production, recirculation and reproduction of scholarly myth was only too tempting, has not yet produced the science it set out to produce. The great debate it has generated is essentially a struggle to formulate the conditions and the procedures under which Bernal's claims (or the alternative statements that can supersede them) can be allowed to be true; under which their myth content can be kept low. Even if meant to be destructive and dismissive, even the most critical reactions therefore are inherently constructive, and Bernal's later, specific responses (often more precise, clear, subtle and palatable than his original published statements), bring out once more the fact that scientific truth is the "” usually ephemeral "” product of a social process between peers.

What is needed is that his sheer unbearable, self-imposed burden is now shared with others, working under an epistemology more readily recognised as suitable to tell myth from truth, but within the spirit of his vision of interculturality and multicentredness as the central challenge of our age, and of his standards of interdisciplinary breadth and scholarly imagination.

If Martin Bernal produces truth inextricably mixed with myth; if his naïve epistemology is conducive to this; if he has not adopted more widely acceptable methodologies for mythical and etymological analysis; if his reconstruction of the modern history of ideas may be too schematic and partly wrong; if he shows himself more adept at the tracing of the trajectories of isolated cultural and religious items than at the understanding of the complexity of localising cultural and religious transformations; if there are a hundred other things more or less wrong with Black Athena, "” then these are merely so many items for a research agenda that ought to keep as many of us as possible occupied well into the twenty-first century CE.

In mid-life and without the required specialist academic training in classical and Ancient Near Eastern languages, archaeology, and ancient history, Martin Bernal has set himself a truly Herculean task. A fundamental dilemma has attended the Black Athena project from the beginning: its scope is far too comprehensive for one person, its political, ideological and moral implications are far too complex than that one person could possibly be trusted to thresh them all out. Whatever error has crept in is more than compensated by his scope of vision, which made him realise that, inside as well as outside scholarship, creating a viable and acceptable alternative to Eurocentrism is the most important intellectual challenge of our time.

One obvious strategy for reducing the state of alarm which Black Athena has brought about among specialists on Ancient Greece and the Ancient Near East, has been to try and refute the details of its scholarship, and to subsequently, smugly, withdraw from the debate. The other way out, and one which I passionately advocate, is to continue in the spirit of Martin Bernal's project, with vastly increased personal, disciplinary, financial and temporal resources, and see where this will lead us: far beyond the Black Athena thesis, no doubt, but with new inspiring questions towards a new nuderstanding of the ancient world, and more effectively equipped for our global future.

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November 13, 2003 4:09 PM

For the Black women and girls who will read this. I'm putting the below article here so you can recognize the mindset of a white racist fiend and come to understand why they would look past all the volumous TRUTH out there with regard to Black Jesus/Mary/Miriam,Israel, Egypt, Babylon.

Since we have a UN-IDENTIFIED live specimen on the board, the below article fits perfect in with the specimen 'meles' and her sidekick colored boy 'Thawatcher' whose mother he vulgarly admitted to repeatedly defilng so showing his nature to be of the lowest base.

We see the thing is as the Bible says, 'of Satan.' It with the arrogance of satan bursts into a board demanding blacks heed it's presence. It then shows itself inhumane enough to 'denounce' all black truth so proving the Bible right when it says, such satanic beings would 'strain at a gnat and swallow a camel'. Oh, and of course, their is it's colored mule bowed down, riding in the white fiend with a big grin on its' face (Tha hee-haw jackass) does this in the same way the colored buzzards of Africa bow down prostrate and let the white male take over Africa. Actually, I don't blame the white enemy without for he 'saw a fool and bumped his head.'

Now where were we, the satanic specimen is 'arrogant,' like Satan, a fool who 'strains at a gnat and swallows a camel' as you have seen. And, the white fiend is full of demonic hate for all things BLACK. While 'its' colored jackass bucks and beighs for it. Well, all God did was use a Black woman to put forth truth and out popped our live exhibition showing that the TRUTH HURTS, REVEALS AND CAUSES DEMONS TO SQUEAL IN UTTER ANGUISH.

So whenever the UN-IDENTIFIED THING bursts in to a black woman's site to denounce BLACK WOMEN TRUTH you know that the TRUTH is AGAINST such evil. See how important it is to SPEAK THE TRUTH IN SEASON AND OUT, BLACK WOMAN? As TRUTH alone, will shine it's light and reveal the true evil in your midst.
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RACISM, HISTORY AND LIES © 2000 Max Dashu

Some doctrines of racial supremacy as classically taught
in Euro/American institutions, textbooks and media:

PHYSICAL CALIBRATION DOCTRINE: In which white anthropologists treat people as racial specimens, measuring "cephalic indices" and attempting to prove superiority of the "white" brain. Ugly racist terminology: "prognathism," "platyrhiny," "steatopygous," "sub-Egyptian." Mug-shot lineups of "the Veddan female," "Arapaho male, "Negroid type," "Mongoloid specimen" chacterize this approach. Out of favor in the mid-20th-century, it has enjoyed a revisionist comeback with sociobiology and works claiming racial differentials in intelligence, such as "The Bell Curve."

TECHOLOGICAL CALIBRATION DOCTRINE: Insists on forcing archaeological finds as well as living cultures into a grid of "development" based on the use of certain tools, materials and techniques valued by "Western" scholars. Example: "They were a stone age civilization who never discovered the wheel!" Forces cultures into a progressional paradigm: Old and New Stone Ages, Bronze Age, Iron Age, Industrial Revolution, Space Age. This classification ignores the complexity of culture, and the fact that metallurgic technology and military might are not the ultimate measure of advanced culture.

STAGES OF DEVELOPMENT DOCTRINE: The assumption that "primitive" cultures represent lower "stages" in historical evolution, and have yet to attain advanced forms of culture. One English scholar referred to "the child-races of Africa." Usually, social hierarchy, militarization and industrialization are taken as measures of "advanced" civilizations. In the 19th century, scholars openly used the terms "savage," "barbarian," "civilized." Though these offensive words have (mostly) been dropped, the underlying assumptions are still quite influential.

SPREAD OF CIVILIZATION DOCTRINE: Credits all achievements to conquering empires, assuming their superiority in science, technology, and government. Adherents are usually incapable of perceiving advanced earth-friendly systems of land management, agronomy, medicine, collective social welfare networks, healing, astronomical knowledge, or profound philosophical traditions of peoples considered "primitive" by dominant "Western" standards.

PASSING OF THE TORCH DOCTRINE: Claims a chain of cultural transmission from Mesopotamia and Egypt to Greece to Rome to western Europe to the USA, leaving vast gaps where the history of the rest of the world should be. (The discussion never returns to Egypt or Iraq to consider what happened there after the fall of their ancient empires.) Most of the planet's cultures are discussed only in relation to the European conquest, if mentioned at all. As a result, few people have any idea of the history of Sumatra, Honduras, Niger, Ecuador, Mozambique, Ohio, Hokkaido, Samoa, or even European countries such as Lithuania or Bosnia.

IF IT WAS GREAT, IT MUST HAVE BEEN WHITE: If advanced science, art, or architecture is found in Africa or South America, then Phoenecians, Greeks, Celts, Vikings (or, in the extreme case, space aliens) must be invoked to explain their presence. (Here, whiteness often functions as a relative concept, as "lighter than.") This bias gives rise to a pronounced tendency to date American or African cultures later than warranted, and as a result dating is constantly having to be revised further back into the past as evidence of greater antiquity piles up.

Corollary: IF IT WAS WHITE, IT MUST HAVE BEEN GREAT. Thus, the conqueror Charlemagne was a great man, in spite of his genocidal campaign against the Saxons, but the Asian conquerors Attila the Hun and Genghis Khan were simply evil. Stereotypes of head-hunters picture Africans (in the absence of any evidence for the practice) but never Celtic head-hunters in France and Britain -- much less Lord Kitchener making off with the Mahdi's skull in Sudan, or U.S. settlers taking scalps and body parts of Indian people. This doctrine also underlies the common assumption that European conquest must have improved life for subject peoples.

A 19th century French engraving idealizes the conquest of Algeria as a showering of the benefits of superior civilization on abject, genuflecting North Africans.

IF IT WAS NOT WHITE, AND ITS GREATNESS IS UNDENIABLE, THEN IT MUST BE DEPRECATED IN SOME WAY: Example:The Epic of Man, published in the '60s by Time/Life Books, says of the advanced civilization of ancient Pakistan: "It is known that a static and sterile quality pervaded Indus society." It used to be the academic fashion to call ancient Egypt a "moribund" civilization which "stifled creativity." Similar writings dismissed the "Incas" (Quechua) as "totalitarian," or the Chinese as "isolated" and "resistant to change."

The AFRICAN GAP DOCTRINE: After examining the first humans hundreds of thousands of years ago, this historical approach completely skips over most of the African archaeological record. It discusses ancient Egypt but ascribes its civilization to "the Middle East," denying its African identity and archaeological connections with Saharan and southern Nilotic civilizations. Saharan civilization, Ile-Ife or Mwanamutapa are not discussed at all. Africa is simply dropped from historical consideration until the era of European slaving and colonization.

The BERING STRAIT DOCTRINE insists that all indigenous American peoples came across a land bridge between Siberia and Alaska, filtering down through Central America into South America. Problem: numerous archaeological sites in the Americas predate any possible Bering Strait migration by many thousands of years. Access from Alaska to the rest of North America was blocked for millennia by two great ice sheets that covered Canada. An narrow opening that might have allowed passage appeared much too late (about 13,500 years ago) to explain the growing evidence that people were living in both North and South America much earlier than these "first" migrations.

By 1997-98, the tide of opinion began to turn: several scientific conclaves declared that a majority of attending scholars rejected the Bering Strait theory as a full explanation of how the Americas were peopled.The long-doctrinal hypothesis of Clovis hunters as the first immigrants is crumbling before the new dating, as hundreds of pre-Clovis sites pile up: Cactus Hill, Virginia (13,500 BP); Meadowcroft Rock Shelter in Pennsylvania (14,000 - 17,000 Before Present); Monte Verde (12,500 BP); Pedra-Furada, Brazil (15,000 BP, and possibly as old as 32,000 BP).

Bering Strait diehards discount the oral histories of indigenous Americans, such as Hopi accounts of migrations across "stepping-stones" in the Pacific. In spite of the huge diversity among the American peoples and differences between most Americans and east Asians, all are declared to be of "Mongoloid racial origin." After the initial press stampede declaring "Kennewick Man" to be "white," study of the genetic evidence shows something entirely different. Instead, it appears that there have been several waves of migration: from central China, from the ancient Jomon culture of Japan, from south Asia or the Pacific islands. And "Luzia," an 11,500-year-old female skeleton in Brazil "appeared to be more Negroid in its cranial features than Mongoloid," in the stodgy anthropological terminology of the New York Times (Nov 9, 1999). But there is also a uniquely North American X-haploid group of mitochondrial DNA, which could uphold American Indian traditions of origins in North America.



THE POWER OF NAMING

STEREOTYPING entire peoples as mad, uncontrollable threats: "Wild Indians," "Yellow Hordes" or "the Yellow Peril." As inferior nonhumans: "primitives," "savages," "gooks," "niggers" -- this last term used not only against African-Americans, but also by English colonizers of Egypt and India. Even the word "natives," which originally meant simply the people born in a country and by extension the aboriginal inhabitants, took on heavy racist coloration as an inferior Other.

POLARIZATION: "Scientific thought" vs. "primitive belief"; "undeveloped" vs "civilized"; or "the world's great religions" vs. "tribal superstitions," "cults," "idolatry" or "devil-worship." Depending on where it was created, a sculpture could either be a "masterpiece of religious art" or an "idol," "fetish," or "devil." Few people realize that "Western" scientists did not match the accuracy of ancient Maya calculations of the length of the solar year until the mid-20th century.

Indians who resist colonization and land theft are commonly portrayed as evil in popular media, which applies negative labels such as "Renegades."

RENAMING: Dutch colonists called the Khoi-khoi people "Hottentots" (stutterers). Russians called the northwest Siberian Nentsy "Samoyed" (cannibals). These are blatant examples, but many nationalities are still called by unflattering names given by their enemies: "Sioux" (Lakota); "Miao" (Hmong); "Lapps" (Saami); "Basques" (Euskadi); "Eskimos" (Inuit). European names have replaced the originals in many places: Nigeria, Australia, New Caledonia, New Britain, etc. (But "Rhodesia" bit the dust.)

DEGRADATION OF MEANINGS: "Mumbo jumbo" has become a cliché signifying meaningless superstitions, but it comes from a Mandinke word -- mama dyambo -- for a ritual staff bearing the image of a female ancestor. (Look it up in any good dictionary.) "Fetish" now connotes an obsessive sexual fixation, but originated as a Portuguese interpretation of sacred West African images as "sorcery" (feitição). The holy city of Islam is often appropriated in phrases like "a Mecca for shoppers."

DOUBLE-THINK: Conquest becomes "unification," "pacification,""opening up," and conquered regions are dubbed "protectorates." The convention is to use Europe as the standard, writing texts from the viewpoint of the conquerors / colonizers. Thus, a Rajasthani rebellion against English rule was termed the "Indian Mutiny." A peculiarity of this thinking is the tendency to refer to times of bloody invasions and enslavement with respectful affection, as in "The Golden Age of Greece" and "The Glory That Was Rome," or "How the West Was Won." British subjugation of southern Nigeria is recast as The Pacification of the Primitive Tribes of the Lower Niger.

A contributor toMen Become Civilized, edited by Trevor Cairns explains it all to children:

"When the king of one city conquered others, he would have to make sure that all the people in all the cities knew what to do. He would have to see that they all had rules to follow, so that they would live peacefully together."

Double-think finds ways to recast genocide as regrettable but necessary, due to failings of the people being killed, who are somehow unable to "adapt." Distancing the agent is key here, obscuring the violence with the idea that some kind of natural process is at work: "vanishing races," "by that time the Indians had disappeared."



THE POWER OF IMAGES

Hollywood tomtoms beat as fake Indians jump up and down, uttering brainless cries and grunts. There's the "squaw" complex in literature and cinema, the faithful Indian sidekick, and Robinson Crusoe's "Man Friday." John Wayne as the Western movie hero, saying: "There's humans and then there's Comanches." Or in real life, justifying settler theft of Indian countries: "There were great numbers of people who needed new land, and the Indians were selfishly trying to keep it for themselves."



This picture appeared in an ad for insurance.
Advertising is an important transmitter of historical misrepresentation. It draws on colonial mythologies such as the notion that the Dutch "bought" Manhattan for the equivalent of $24 in trade goods --in spite of the fact that the Indians did not think of land as something that could be sold. The role of violence (including massacres after which Staten Island settlers played football with Wappinger heads) is obliterated.

Tarzan goes up against witch doctors and eye-rolling African chiefs. The Caribbean shown as full of fearful, superstitious natives and zombies, Arabs who have nothing to do all day but loll around in harems, or cheat the white hero. Seductive Suzie Wongs, thieving Mexicans, and shiftless and sexually insatiable African-Americans. Movies depicting the Chinese as obsequious and deceitful, Arabs as treacherous, Africans as ignorant and barbaric.



COUNTERPOINT

The Mande were farming millet and other crops in West Africa in 6500-5000 BCE.

Temples in Peru and India are much older than the Parthenon.

People in Mississippi, Illinois and Mexico traded with each other and exchanged ideas and symbols, as the the sea-faring Ecuadorians did with Costa Rica and western Mexico.

A small-statured Black people built the oldest civilization in southeast Asia, leaving megalithic temples and statuary in south India, Cambodia, Sumatra and other Indonesian islands.

Archaeology shows that the formative influences on ancient Egypt came from Sudan and the Sahara, not the "Middle East."

The oldest megalithic calendar in the world has recently been discovered in the Egyptian Sahara, dating back to 7000 years ago. European megaliths (which spread from the south) may have an African origin.

Polynesian mariners had begun navigating by the stars and settling the vast ocean expanses of the Pacific islands before the time of Moses.



WHAT IS DEFINED AS HISTORY?

In the last half century the boundaries of "acceptable" history have been expanded by a multidisciplinary approach, including sources previously dismissed: orature (oral tradition), linguistics, anthropology, social history, art, music and other cultural sources. More recently, the social locations of historians have come under consideration as a factor shaping their perspectives, along with a sense that there is no absolutely "objective" view of history. Past claims of objectivity have biases clearly visible today, notably in siding with European settlers and slavers against non-christian cultures, and the almost total eclipse of female acts and experience from historical accounts.

A reader who might react negatively to a blatant expression of racism often misses perceiving one cloaked in scholarly language, in assumptions, judgements and misinformation most people have not been educated to catch. It does not occur to many people to question a pronounced overemphasis on Europe, the smallest continent (actually, a subcontinent of Asia.) If a chapter or two on African and Asian history is inserted in a textbook, publishers go ahead and call it a world history. Typically, media depictions of history have not caught up with information now available in specialized academic sources, and continue to present the old stereotypes and distortions as fact.

More on Racism, History and Lies



BARBARIANS AT THE GATES

In the early '90s a hue and cry was raised in the national media against "multiculturalism." It threatened the very foundations of Western Civilization, explained an outpouring of magazine articles and newspaper columns which shed much heat but little light. A Newsweek cover blared: "THOUGHT POLICE: There's a 'Politically Correct' Way to Talk About Race, Sex and Ideas. Is This the New Enlightenment -- Or the New McCarthyism?" As if this wasn't heavy-handed enough, it adds a warning, "Watch What You Say." (December 24, 1990)

"In U.S. classrooms, battles are flaring over values that are almost a reverse image of the American mainstream. As a result, a new intolerance is on the rise." William A. Henry III, "Upside Down in the Groves of Academe", Time Magazine, April 1, 1991

"'It used to be thought that ideas transcend race, gender and class, that there are such things as truth, reason, morality and artistic excellence, which can be understood and aspired to by everyone, of whatever race, gender or class.' Now we have democracy in the syllabus, affirmative action in the classroom. 'No one believes in greatness.' Bate says mournfully. 'That's gone.'" Op-Ed, New York Times Magazine, by Gertrude Himmelfarb, June 5, 1991

"If there is insufficient authentic African culture to meet the demands of self-esteem, then culture must be borrowed from ancient Egypt. No black pharaohs? A few must be invented. Not enough first-rate women poets? Let second-raters be taught instead." James Kilpatrick, "Poisoning the Groves of Academe," San Francisco Chronicle, April 15, 1991

The assumption that were are no great women poets, no black pharaohs, no other greatness than the usual diet of "Western Civilization" is so ingrained that it is regarded as incontrovertible. Protesting the monochrome, all-male landscape of classic pedagogy becomes "intolerance." But what then are we to call the refusal to open up media and educational horizons to the full spectrum of human achievement?



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A response to John Baines' review (August 11, 1991) of Cheikh Anta Diop's Civilization or Barbarism and Martin Bernal's Black Athena:

To the Editor, New York Times Book Review:

Mr. Baines' review of Diop and Bernal express alarm that their books "attack modern conceptions of the origins of Western Civilization" by showing the anteriority of African (especially Egyptian) achievements. It seems to me that he would like to deny the context of the whole discussion, which has been centuries of exalting the Greeks as the fount of Western Civilization and denying the role of Africa in the ancient world. Egypt is treated as part of the "Middle East," and her relations with the rest of Africa ignored. In this context, to demand an "intellectual contribution that will stand without reference to issues of race" is to perpetuate an injurious status quo.

This denial is especially ludicrous in the frequently-heard claim that because Egyptians were "ethnically mixed," they were not black. Southern African peoples are ethnically mixed, yet it would occur to no one that they are other than black. More to the point, if an ancient Egyptian were to find herself in the United States, she would fall within the range of colors we describe as "black." This business of reddish-brown-skinned men and golden-skinned women was a convention in Egyptian art (and one adopted by the Cretans, Greek vases, and Etruscans, bearing out the hypothesis of Egyptian influence). If Mr. Baine wants to take the golden women as a racial marker for light-skinned Egyptians, is he also willing to concede dark-brown-skinned Etruscan men? His claim that considering the race of the Egyptians is "unhelpful"--and the many others who declare it irrelevant--is coy and evasive.

Max Dashu, Suppressed Histories Archives

[The Times did not publish this letter.]
 
 
 
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November 14, 2003 1:31 PM

Hi again Sun Nubian, the goddess uropa is mentioned on this site. Check out the link below as well as the many powerful links and literal showing of the 'altars' which were erected to the goddesses.

Tammuz the black female goddess who is mentioned in the Bible as worshipped by ISRAEL has a temple altar shown as was erected by ISRAEL (Ezekiel 8:14). Israel also worshipped the QUEEN OF HEAVEN as is made mention in Scripture...(Jeremiah 7:18).

http://geocities.com/jywanza1/Goddess.html
 
 
 
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November 14, 2003 1:36 PM

Here is a list of BLACK GODDESSES worshipped throughout the ancient world. As well as worshipped throughout the world today.


A Abundantia, Acat, Acca, Achamoth, Achlys, Adamah, Adda, Adernosa, Adishakti, Aditi, Adraste, Adsullata, Aegea, Aegle, Aeons, Aerfen, Aestas, Aglaia, Agnayi, Aholibah, Ahurani, Aima, Aindre, Aine of Knockaine, Akaru-hime, Akhamoth, Akibimi, Akka, Akna, Akwa Ba, Alaghom Naum Istat Ix, Alaisiagae, Albina, Alcmena, Alecto, Aleitheia, Al-lat (Al-ilat, El-lat), Almathea (Amalthea), Alphito, Althaea, Al-Uzza, Ama No Uzume, Amari De (De Delevski), Amaterasu, Amathaunta, Amatsu-otome, Amaunet, Amayicoyondi, Amba Bai, Ambika, Amemait (Am-mit), Ament (Amentet), Amirini, Ammarik, Ana, Anagke, Anahita, Anat (Anna-Nin), Anath, Anatha Baetyl, Anbotoko Dama (Anbotoko Sorgina), Ancasta, Andromeda, Androphonos, Angerona, Angurboda, Anna, Anna-Nin, Anna of the Angles, Anna Kauri, Anna Perennia, Annapurna, Anrita, Antum, Anu (Anann), Anuket, Anumati, Anunet, Aoide, Aoife, Apet (Opet), Aphaea, Aphitrite, Aphrodite, Apsaras, Apsu, Apt (Aleitheia), Arachne, Aradia, Aramaiti, Arani, Ara-seshap, Armathr, Ardhanarisvara, Ardvi Sura Anahita, Arethusa, Aretia, Ariadne, Ariana, Arianrhod (Arionhod), Aritimi, Arka, Arnaknagsak, Arsai, Arsinoe, Artemis, Artio, Aru (Aruru, Nintu), Asgaya-Gigagei, Asha Poorna, Ashera (Asherah, Asherat), Ashima, Ashima Baetyl, Ashtart, Ashtoreth, Asia, Asri, Astarte (Athtarat), Astraea, Asva, Asynjor, Atabei, Ataentsic, Ate, Atea, Atergatis, Ath-Enna, Athena (Athene), Athtarat, Athtor, Atira, Atlanta, Atanua, Ataryatis Derketo, Atropos, Attar, Auchimalgen, Audhumla, Aukert, Aunt Piety, Aurora , Avilayoq, Axo-Mama, Aya, Ayizan, Az

B Baalat, Baau, Babelah, Bacchantes, Bachue, Badb (Badhbh), Bahu, Baltis, Banana-Maiden, Banbha, Banshee, Bast (Bastet), Bashuli, Bau (Bohu, Bahu, Gur), Baubo, Bean-Nighe, Befana, Belili, Belsima, Belit-Ilanit, Belit-Ili, Belit-Sheri (Nin-edin), Bellona, Belili (Beli-Sheri), Bendis, Bene, Bensozia, Benten (Benzaiten, Benzai-Tennyo), Beltis, Benzaiten, Benzozia, Bera Pennu, Berchta, Berecyntia, Beruth, Bestla, Bestower of Strength, Bethulta, Bhairavi, Bharati, Bhatta, Bhavani (Bhowani, Parasu-Pani), Bhumi, Bibi Miriam, Bil, Binah, Bird Goddess, Birrahgnooloo, Birra-Nula, Bitch Goddess, Black Annis, Black Hag, Black Madonna, Blancheflor, Blathnat, Blodeuwedd, (the) Blue Hag, Boann, Bona Dea, Branwen, Bribsun, Brighed (Brigid, Brigit, Brid, Bride, Brigante, Briget), Brigitte (Maman Brigitte), Brimo, Bringer of Birth and Death, Britannia, Britomartis, Brizo, Brunissen, Brunhild (Brynhild), Buana, Bunnan, Buddhi Krotishaurima, Buddhi, Bullai-Bullai, Buto (Uadjet)

C Cabiro (Cabria), Caksusi, Calleach Beine Bric, Calleagh, Calliope, Callisto, (the) Campestres, Car, Car-Dia (Cardea), Carman, Carme, Carmenta(Carmentis), Carnea, Carna, Carpet Snake Woman, Cassiopeia, Cauth Bodva, Ceithlenn, Ceres, Cerridwen, Cesara (Cessair), Chala (Chapala), Chalchiuhtlicue, Chandernaree, Changing Woman, Ch'ang-O (Heng-O), Chapala (Chala), Charis, (the) Charybdis, Chasca, Chaos, Chauturopayini, Chhaya (Khaya), Chia, Chicomecoatl, Chih-Nii, (the) Chimaera, Chimalmat, Chit (Buddhi), Chiu T'ien Hsuan-Nu, Cihuatcoatl, Circe, Citallinicue (Ilamatecuhtli), Cleito, Clio, Cliona of the Fair Hair, Cloacina, Clotho, Coatlicue, Coco Mama, Concordia, Copacati, Consus, Cotys (Cotytto), Coronis, Coventina, (The) Creatress, Creiddylad, Cunda (Kunda), Cupra, Cybele, Cyhiraeth

D Dahud, Daiera, Dainichi, Dakini, Dakshina, Damara, Dam-kina, Damona, Dana (Danu), Danae, Danaids, Danu-Ana, Dark Lady of Wisdom, (the) Dark Maid, Dea Dia, Dea Hammia, Dea Syria, Deborah, De Develski, Deianeira, (the) Delight Goddess, Delilah, Demeter, Dennitsa (Zvezda Dennitsa), Derceto, Derketo, Deshtri, Deva (Devi), Devaki, Devana, Devananda, Devasuni, Death Goddess, Destroyer of Men, Dharani, Di-Ana, Diana, Dianoia, Dictynna, Diiwica, Dike, Dinah, Dione, Dirona, Discordia, Diti, Djet, Dodah, Dok, Dol Jyang (Bribsun), Dolma (White Tara), Domnu, Don, Doris, Dorje-Naljorma (Vajra-Yogini), Dornoll, Druantia, Druxans, (the) Dryads, Dugnai, Durga, Dwyvach, Dynamis, Dziewona (Devana)

E Eartha, (the) Earthly Mother, (the) Eastern Mother, Echidne, Echo, Egeria, Eileithyia (Ilithyia), Eir, Eirene, Eithinoha, Eithne, Ekadzati, Ekhamoth, Elat, Elate, Electra, Elihino, Elli, Embla, Emu Women (the Seven Sisters), Enodia, Ennoia (Ennoe), Enthumesis, Eos, Eostre (Ostara), Epinoia, Epona, Erato, Erce, Erditse, Eresh-kigal, Eris, Eire, Eriu (Erin), Ernmas, Ernutit (Renenet), Eros, Erua, Erytheis (the Hesperides), Erzulie, Esharra, Ester, Esther, Estsanatlehi, Etain (Edain), Eterna, Eunomia, Euphrosyne (Charites), Euronyme (Euronome), Europa, Euryale, Eurynome, Euterpe, Eve,

F Fama, Fand, (the) Fates, Fatima, Fauna, Fea, Febris, Feng-P'o-P'o, Feronia, (the) Fertility Mother, Fides, Filia Vocis, Fjorgyn, Flidais, Flora, Fodhla (Fotla), Fornax, Forgiver of Sins, Fortuna, Framer of All Decrees, Fraus, Freya (Freyja, Frigg), Frimia (Fimila), Fuchi (Huchi), Fulla, (the) Furies (Erinyes)

G Gaia (Gaea), Galatea, Gandieda (Gwendydd), Ganga, Garbh Ogh, Garmangabis, Gasmu, Ga-Tum-Dug, Gauri, Gayatri, Gefn "the Giver", Gendenwitha, Gerd The Earth Mother (Gerda), Gerfjon (Gefjon), Gestinanna (Geshtin), Ghe, Ghul, Gjalp, Glaisrig (Glaistig), Gna, Goddess of Goddesses, Goddess Har, Goddess of the Grove, Goddess of Marriage, Goddess of New Moon, Goddess of Sexuality, Goddess of The Hunt, Godiva (Goda, Godgifu), Gokarmo, Goleuddydd, (the) Gorgons, Gouri (Isani), (the) Graces (the Gratiae, the Charites), (the) Graeae, Grainne, Grian, (the) Gruagach, Grandmother, Grandmother of Time, (The) Great Goddess, Great Mother, (The) Great Whore, Guabancex, Guinevere, Gula, Gu-Lang, Gullveig, Gungu, Gunnlauth (Gunloed, Gunnlod), Gwendydd, Gwenhwyfar (Guinevere, Gueneva)

H Habondia, (Dame Habonde, Abundia), Hagar, Hag of the Ironwoods, Hainuwele, Hakea, Hakini, Halja, Hamadryad, Hannah, Hanenca, Haniyama-Hine, Hani-Yasu-No-Kami, Hannahannas, Hapi, Har, Harimella, Harita, Harmonia, Harpies, Hathor, Haumea, (Haumia), Haya, Haya-Akitsu-Hime-No-Kami, Hebat (Hepatu), Hebe, Hecabe, Hecate, Heh, Hekate, Heket, Hel (Hela), (The) Heliades, Hemera, Heng-o (Chang-O), Hepatu (Hebat), Hepzibah, Heimarmene, Helen of Troy, Helice, Hera, Herodias, Hertha (Nerthus), (The) Hesperides, Hesione, Hestia, Het Hert, Hetep-Sekhus, Hettsui-No-Kami, Hi'iaka, Hi'iakaikapoliopele, Himavati, Hina (Hine), Hina-Mitigator-Of-Many-Things, Hina-Of-The-Land, Hina- Titama, Hine-Ahu-One, Hine-nui-Te-Po, Hingnoh, Hinlil, Hippodameia, Hippolyte, Hir-Nineveh, Hlodyn, Hnossa, Ho Hsien-Ku, Holle (Holda, Holde), (The) Holy Spirit, Horta, Horae, Horn the Holy Harlot, Hretha (Nerthus), Hsi-Ho, Hsi Wang Mu, Hubur, Hudigamma, Hun-Ahpu-Mtye, Hunthaca, Huntress, Huruing Wuhti, Hvov, Hygeia, Hymen, Hypate (Muse), Hypermnestra, Hyrax

I Iambe, Ichchhashakti (Shaktis), Ida (Adda, Ila), Idea, Idun (Iduna), Igaehindvo, Ikugui-no-Kami, Ila, Ilamatecuhtli, Ilithyia (Eileithyia), Ilmatar (Luonnotar), Ilythyia (Leucothia), Imbaluris, Imberombera (Waramurungundju), Ina (Sina), Inaris, Innana ("Lady of Heaven"), Inaras (Inara), Inari, Indoea Pad (Saning Sari), Indrani (Aindri), Ineno Pae (Mother of Rice), Ino (Leucothea), Io, Iphigeneia, Irene, Iris, Isani (Gouri), Iseult (Isolde, Esyllt, Essyllt Vyngwen), Ishikoridome-No-Mikoto, Ishtar, Isis, Istadevata, Istusaya, Iusas, Itzpapaloti, Ivi, Ixalvoh ("Water"), Ixchel (Tlazolteotl), Izanami, Iztat Ix (Alaghom Naum)

J Jagad-Yoni ("Universe Yoni"), Jael, Jagadama, Jah, Jahi, Jambavati, Jana, Jarah (Jerah), Jarnsaxa, Jingo, Jnanashkti (The Shaktis), Jill, Joan of Arc, Jocasta, Jord (Jorth), Julunggui ("Rainbow Snake"), Jumala (Slatababa), Juno (Juno Fortuna), Juturna, Jyotsna

K Ka-Ata-Killa, Kadi, Kadomas (Dakini), Kadru, Kagauraha, Kahasuma, Kaikilani, Kakini (Dakini), Kali,, Kali Ma, Kali Nath, Kalika, Kali, Kalindi, Kalma, Kama, Kamashi ("Wanton Eyed"), Kamikaze ("Divine Wind"), Kameshwari, Kami- Musumi ("Divine Generative Force"), Kana-Yama-Hime, Kangra Goddess, Kanya ("Girl"), Kara (a Valkyrie), Karakarook, Kariteimo (Kishibojin), Kathirat, Kari, Karusepas, Kauri, Kaya-Nu-Hime ("Princess of Grass"), Kebehut, Kedesh (Qedeshet), Kefa (The Mother of Time), Kenemet, The Keres, Keroessa, Keyuri, Khadomas (The Dakinis), The Khados, Khamadhenu (Khamden, Cow of Plenty), Khoemnu (Chemnu), Khon-Ma ("Mother of Friends"), Ki, Kichijo-Ten, Kikimora, Kima, Kinkini-Dhari (Til-Bu-Ma), Kipu-Tytto (Kivutar), Kiririsha, Kisa Gotami, Kishar, Kishibojin (Kariteimo), Kivutar (Kariteimo), Kivutar (Kipu-Tytto), Knot, Knowee, Kobine, Komorkis, Kono-Hansa-Sakuya-Hime, Kore, Kronia, Korobona, Korraval, Kottavei, Krake, Kriemhild, Krimba, The Krittikas, Kriyashakti (Shaktis), Kshiti-Apsaras (The Apsaras), Kuan Yin (Kwan-Yin), Kumari ("Girl, Daughter"), K'un, Kunda, Kundalini ("Coiled"), Kunnan-Beile (Birra- Nulu), Kunnawarra ("Black Swan"), Kupala, Kururuk ("Native Companion"), Kurukulla, Kvaen, Kwannon

L Lachesis (Moerae), La Dama, Lady of Heaven, Lady Horse Head, Lady of the Lake, Lady Meng, Lady of Goodsight, Lady of the Serpent Skirt, Lady of Victory, Lahamu (Lakhamu), Laieikawai, La'ielohelohe, Lakini (A Dakini), Lakshmi, Lalita, Lamia, Lara, Lasya (Lasema, Sgeg-Mo-Ma), Lat (Al-Lat), Latis, Latona (Leto), Laudine (Luned), Laufey ("Wooded Isle"), Laverna, Lawgiver, Laz, Leader of Hosts, Leannan Sidhe, Lebiyah ("Lioness"), Leda, Leshachikha, Leto, Leucothea ("Milk White Goddess"), Leukippe, Levanah, Lewa-Levu ("Great Woman"), Li, Liban ("Beauty of Woman"), Lobera ("Free"), Libitina, Lif, Light of the World, Lilinoe, Lilith, Lilitu ("Night-hag"), Lil Wani, Lily, Lissa, Litae (Ate), The Living Goddess, Lola ("Lightning"), Lofn ("Love"), Lorelei, Losna, Loviatar, Lucina, Lukelong, Luna, Luned (Laudine), Luonnotar ("Daughter of Nature", Ilmatar, "Mother of the Waters"), Lupa, The Lust Goddess (Delight Goddess)

M Ma, Ma'at (Mayet), Macha ("Battle"), Mader-Akka, Madhusri, Madri, Maenads, Maera, Maerin, Mafdet, Magdalene, Mahadevi (Great Goddess"), Magna Dea, Magog, Maha-Nila-Sarasvati, Mahatma, Mahdi, Maia, Maid Marian, Maira, Maiso, Maitri, Malinalxochitl, Malkuth ("The Kingdom"), Mamma (Mami), Mama Alpa, Mama Cocha, Maman Brigitte, Mama Nono, Mama Occlo (Mama Oullo Huaca), Mama Pacha, Mama Quilla, Mammitu, Mammu, Manah (Al-Lat), Manasa (Manasa-Devi), Mantrikashakti (A Shakti), Mara (Marah), Mardoll, Mare Nostrum, Margawse, Mari, Maria, Mariamne, Marian, Marichi, Marina, Marinrttr, Marratu, Mary, Mary Magdaline, Mary the Virgin, Mary the Whore, Marzanna, Masaya, Mashongavudzi, Mashyoi, Matabrune, Mater, Matergabia, Mati-Syra-Zemlya, Matridevis, The Matres ("Mothers"), Matrikadevis, Matrikamantra, Matri-Padma ("Mother Lotus"), Matrona, Matuta, May, Maya, Mayauel, Mayavati, Me, Me-Abzu (Tiamat), Mearah, Mebeli, Medea, Medes, Medbh (Maeve of Connacht, "Intoxication"), Medbh Kethderg ("Half Red"), Medusa, Meenakshi ("Fish Eyed"), Mefitia, Megaera (The Erinyes), Mehen the Enveloper, Mehitabel, Mehueret (Mehurt, "Lady of Heaven and Mistress of Earth"), Melaina, Melete (Muse), Meliae, Melissa, Melpemone (Muuse), Melusine ("Evil Midwife"), Mem-Aleph, Meni, Menkheret, Menquet, Menos, Menrva, Mensa, Mer, Mera, Meridiana, Meri-Ra, Meri-Yamm, Mermaid, Mertseger, Meshkent, Meteres, Methyer, Metis ("Wisdom, Counsel"), Metsulah, Meztli (Tecciztecatl), Mictecacihuatl (Mictlancichautl), Mielikki, Minaksi, Mihit (Mehit), Minerva, Minne, Miriam, MIru, Miti, Mitsuha-Nome-No-kami ("Water Greens"), Mizunoe (Oto), Mneme (Muse), Mnemosyne ("Memory"), Moaning- River, Mobo, Modir, Modron, (The) Moerar ("Fates"), Mohini, Moingfhion (Mongfhinn "The White Haired One"), Moira, Moirai, Moon Goddess, Moon Shining over the Sea, Morgan ("OhThe Sea"), Morgan La Faye, Morgan the Fate, Morning Star, Morrigan (Morrigu), Mother Carey, Mother Clear-Light, Mother Death, Mother Earth, Mother Goddess, Mother of Harlots, Mother Of Life, Mother Mannu, Mother Of Metsola (Mielikki), Mother Of TenThousand Things, Mother Mary, Mother of Mt. Dicte, Mother Night, Mother of Perfect Intelligence, Mother of The Sun, Mother Time, Mourdad-Ameretat, Muilidheartach, Mulaprakriti ("Primal Matter"), Mulkari, Mumi, Murigen, (The) Muses, Mut ("Mother"), Myestyas, Mylitta (Melita, Molis "Child-bearing"), Myrrhine, Myrrha, Myrtea

N Namaka, Namakaokaha'i, Nammu, Namrael, Nana, Nanda Devi, Nanshe, Nanna, Nathor, Nehellenia, Neit, Neith, Nekhbet, Nemean Lion, Nemesis, Nepthys, Nerthus, Nike, Nile Goddess, Nine Muses, Nimue, Ninhursag, Ninki, Ninsun, NIN.TI, Niobe, Nixies, Norns, Nuit, Nut, Nyai Loro Kidul,

O Oba, The Oceanids, Oddudua (Odudua), Oenothea, Ogetsu-Hime-No-Kami, Okitsu-Hime, Old Spider, The Old Woman Who Never Dies, Olwyn, Omeciuatl, Omicle, Omikami, Omoroca (Tiamut), Omphale, Onatha ("Spirit Of Wheat"), Opener of the Womb, Opet (Apet , Tauret), Ops("Plenty"), Ora (Melusine), Oraea, The Oreads, Oreithuia, Orore, Oshun (Oya), Ostara (Eostre), Oto (Mizunoe), Otsuchi-No-Kami, Oynyena Maria ("Fiery Mary")

P Pa, Pachamama, Padma, Pakhit, Pai Mu-tan ("White Peony"), Pales, Palm Goddess of Nejran, Panacea, P'an Chin-Lien, Pandora ("Gift of All"), Papa ("Rocky Stratum"), Papaya (Istustaya), Parashakti (Shaktis), The Parcae (Moerae), Parvati, Pashadhari, Pasiphae, Pax, Peitho("Persuasion"), Pekhet, Pelagia, Pele, Perchta, The Peris (Pairikas), Persophone, Philosophia (Sophia), Philyra ("Linden"), Phoebe, Phronesia ("Purpose, Practical Wisdom"), Pidrai, Pi- Hsia-Yuan-chun (Princess of Streaky Clouds"), Pingala ("Twany-eyed"), Pirua, Pleiades (Pirili, Seven Sisters), Poli'ahu, Poludnitsa, Polyhymnia (Muse), Pomona, Pope Joan, Porrima (Carmenta), Potina, Prajna, Prajna-Paramita, Prakriti, Pramlocha, Pressine (Melusine), (The) Primal Goddess of the Plough, Prisni, Prithvi, Priti, Proserpina, Prosymna, Psyche, Pukkeenegak, Purvachitti, Pushpema ("She Who Offers Flowers"), Pyrrha, Pythia ("Pythoness")

Q Qedeshet (Kedesh), Qodshu ("Holiness"), Quartiana (Febris), Queen of Elphame, Queen of Heaven and Earth (Ashera, Ashtaroth), Queen of the Underworld, Queen Mab, Quinoa-Mama

R Rabbatu, Radha, (The) Rainbow Snake, Rait (Rat), Raka, Rakini (Dakini), (The) Rashasis, Rambha ("Plaintain Tree"), Ran, Ra Nabasanga, Rangda, Rashith (Beginning"), Rati("Pleasure"), Ratis, Ratri ("Night"), Rat-Taui, Rauni (akka), Re, Reine Pedauque (The Queen With the Bird's Foot"), Remati (Kali), Renenet, Renpet, Repanse de Joie, Rha, Rhiannon ("Great or Divine Queen"), Righteous Judge Ririt (Tauret), Rhea, Rhea Coronis, Rhode, Robigo ("Rust, Mildew"), (The) Rock-Maiden (The Banana Maiden), Rodasi, Rona, Roshmerta, Rukmini ("Adorned with Gold"), RutbeOddudua, Oenothea, Omikami, Omphale, Opener of the Womb, Ops, Oshun, Oya, Padma, Pales, Panacea, Parvati, Pasiphae, Pelagia, Pele, Persophone, Poli'ahu, Pope Joan, (The) Primal Goddess of the Plough, Proserpina, Queen of Heaven and Earth, Queen of the Underworld, Queen Mab, Rabbatu, Radha, Rati, Re, Renenet, Repanse de Joie, Rha, Rhiannon, Rhea, Rhea Coronis, Righteous Judge

S Sabitu, Sabrina (Savren, Habren), (The) Sacred Prostitute, Sadhbh (Sadv), Sadwes, Saga, Saia, Saint Brigid, Saint Cecilia, Saint Christina, Saint Clare, Saint Columba, Saint Corona, Saint Demetra, Saint Elizabeth, Saint Eugenia, Saint Euphemia, Saint Faith, Saint Febronia, Saint Genevieve, Saint Hope, Saint Irene, Saint Lucy, Saint Maragret, Saint Restituta, Saint Triduana, Saint Ursula, Saint Veronica, Saint Viviana, Saitada ("Grief"), Sakhmis, Saki ("Competence, Skill, Powerful Aid"), (The) Sakunadevatas, Salus, Sambhuti, Samdhya, Samkhat, Sams, Sanang Sari, Sandalphon, Sangye Khado, Saning Sari, Sanjna, Sanzukawa-No-Obaasan (Sanzu-No-Baba), Sapas, Sapientia, Sappho, Sarah, Sara-Kali, Sarama (Devasubi), Saranyu, Sarasati, Sarasvati, Sarparajni, Sarpis, Sarvayoni ("All Things Yoni"), Satarupa (Sutty), Sati, (Satis, Satet "To Sow Seed"), Satia, Satyabhama, Savitri, Scathach ("The Shadowy One" or "She Who Srikes Fear"), Schala, Scold, Scotia, Scylla, Savitri, Sedna (Arnaknagsak), Sefkhet-Seshat ("Seshat Sefekh-Aubi"), Sekhet-Hetepet, Sehu ("Maize"), Sekhmet, Selene, Selkhet ("Selkit, Serket), Semele, Semiramis, Senate, Sengen-sama, (The) Senjo, Sequana, Sequanna, Serpent, Seshat (Sefkhet-Seshat), Setlocenia ("She of The Long Life"), (The) Seven sisters (Pleiades), The Seven Sisters of Industry, Sgeg-Mo-Ma (Lasya), Shait, Sakini (Dakini), Shayba, Shakti, (The) Shaktis ("The Great Source of Power"), Shala, Shapash, (The) Shashtradevatas, Shasti (Shashti), Shaushka, Shaya (Sanjna), Sheila-na-gig, Shekinah ("Brightness", "Dwelling"), Sheng-Mu (Pi-Hsia-Yuan- Chun"), Shentayet, Sheol, Shina-To-Be, Shin-Mu, Shitala (Sitla), Shitateru-Hime, Shiu-Mu Niang-Niang, Siddhi, Siduri Sabitu ("Young Woman"), Sien-Tsan, Sif, Sige, Siguna (Signy, Sigyn), Silili, Sin, Sina (Ina), Sinclair, Sindhu, Sionan (Sionnan), Singarmati, Sinvali, Sirdu (Sirrida), (La) Sirene, (The) Sirens, Sirona (Dirona), Sirtur (Ninsun), Sita, Sjofna, Skadi, Skuld (The Norns), Skadi, Slatababa ("Golden Women"), Smashana-Kali, Snake Goddess, Sodasi, Soorejnaree (Pingala), Sophia ("Wisdom"), Sophia Akhamoth, Sopdat (Sothis), Soranus, Soteira, Sow, Sphinx, Spiderwoman, Sradda ("Confidence"), Srahman, Sri, Srinmo, Stheno (Gorgon), Star of the Sea, Stella Maris, Stheino, Strenia, Styx, Subhadra, Succoth-Benoth (Zarpanit), Suhiji-Ni-No-Kami ("Mud-Earth- Lady"), Sukarapreyasi ("Beloved of the Boar"), Sul (Sulla, "Eye"), Sun, Sun Goddess, Sung-Tzu Niang-Niang, Sura, Surabhi ("Pleasant, Friendly"), Suratamangari ("Sexual Joy+Cluster of Blossom"), Surya, Suseri-Hime, Sushumna, Sutrooka, Suwa, Sweet Virgin, Swan Maiden, Sybil, Sylph, Sy`r

T Tadatagei, Tailtiu, Tait, Tallai, Tamar ("Palm tree"), Tamayori-Bime-No-Mikoto, Tamesis, Tamra ("Copper Colored"), Tana (Dinah), Tanit, Tara (Green, White, Red, Black, "Raidiating"), Taranis, Ta-Repy, Tari Pennu (Bera Pennu), Tashmit (Urmit, Varamit "Hearing"), Tatsuta-Hime, Ta-Urt, Taueret, Tauropolos, Tchesert,Tea, tebunah, Tecciztecatl (Metzli), Teeree, Tefnut, Telita, Tellus Mater ("Earth Mother"), Tenazuchi-No-Kami, Tenemet, (The) Tennin, (The) Tenth Aunt, Tephi, Terpsichore (Muse), Terra Firma, Tertiana (Tlazolteotl), Tethys, Thalassa, Thalatth (Tiamut), Thalia (Muse), Thalna, Theia, Themis, Theotokos, Thetis, TThevadas, Thirst Goddess (Delight Goddess), Tho-og, (The) Three Mothers, Thrud, Tiamut (Tiawthu), Tien Hou, Tien Mu ("Mother Lightening"), Til-Bu-Ma ("She Who Holds The Bell"), Tillil, Tisiphone (Erinyes), Titania, Ti-ya (Ti-Mu), Tlachtga, Tlazolteotl (Teteoinian), Tlalteutli, Tlazolteotl, Tohu, Toma, Tonacacihuatl "(Lady Of Our Subsisistence"), Tonagma ("BlackWrathful One"), Tootega, Tou Mu, Toyo-Uke-Bime (Uke-Mochi-Kami), Toyo-Uke-No-Kami ("Abundant Food diety"), Trevia, Triple Goddess, (The) Triple Pussa, Trisala, Trivia ("Three Roads"), Tsao-Wang Nai Nai, Tritone, (The) Thousand Named One, Tonantzin, Tuaret (Taueret, Ririt), Tui, Tula, Tuli, Tuonetar, Turan, (The) Turquoise Woman, Tuulikki, Tyche

U Uadjet (Buto), Uathach (Scathach), Ukemochi ("She Who Possesses Food"), Ulupi, Uma(Parvati), Ummati, Unen-En-Hetep ("Existence of Peace"), Uni, Unnut, The Unsas, Unt (Isis), Uraeus, Urania, Urd (Norns), Urmit (Tashmit), Urt-Hikeum ("Great in Magic"), Urvasi ("Passion"), Ushas, Uto, Utset, Uttu, Uzza,

V Vac, Vach ("Speech"), Vadaba (Vadava), Vaga, Vajra Dakini ("String Dakini"), Vajra Yogini (Dorje-Nal-Jorma), Va-Kul, Valkyries, Vammatar, Vanadevatas (Vrikdevatas), Varahini, Varamit, Vari-Ma-Te-Takere, Varuni, (The) Vanad'is, Vasanti, Vasudhara, Vechernyaya (Zorya Vechernyaya, Dennitsa), Vellamo, Vennolandua (Gwendolen), Venus, Verbeia, Verdandi (The Norns, Verthandi), Vesta, Victoria, (The) Vidyadevis, Vijaya,(Vijayasri), Vila, Vinata, Vindemiatrix, Virdechthis, Virginal the Ice Queen, (The) Virgin Queen, Virgo, Virgo Caelestis (Heavenly Maiden"), Virgin, Virgin Mary, Vivienne (Viviana), Viz-anya ("Water Mother"), Viz-Leany ("Maiden of the Water"), Voltumna, Vrikdevatas (Vanadevatas)

W Wakasaname-No-Kami ("Young Rice-Planting Maiden"), Waka-Uke-Nome (Uke-Mochi-No-Kami), Walutahanga ("Eight Fantoms"), Wang-Mu (Yiang-Yiang, Queen Mother Wang"), Waramurungundju (Imberombera), Water Girls (Seven Sisters), Waters of Heaven, Wawalak, Wenonah, Weird Sisters, Western Mother (Eastern Mother), Whale Goddess, White Buffalo Woman, White Hag, White Tara (Dolma), White Flower, White Woman, Willow, Winged Victory, Wolf Bitch, (The) Woman Light of the Shadows, Wonambi (Rainbow Snake), Wood Mary, Worm, Wudu-Maer, Wursemu, Wyrd (The Norns)

X, Y Xilonen, Xmucane, Xochiquetzal, Yachimato-Hime, (The) Yakshis, Yami, Yang-Chen, Yasodhara, Yatai (Ya-Hsek-Khi), Yatudhanis, Yemana, Yemaya (Yemaja, Yemanja), Yept-Hemet, Yeshe-Khadoma, Yesod, Yhi, Yingona (Yngona), Yonagorri (Mari), Yurulunggui (Rainbow Snake)

Z Zaliyanu, Zaltu ("Strife"), Zara-Mama, Zarpanitu (Zerpanitum), Zenobia, Zhag-Pa-Ma (Pashadhari), Zi-Kum (Zi-Kura, Tiamut), Zipaltonal, Zobiana, Zoe("Life"), Zorya, Zorya Utrennyaya ("Aurora of The Morning"), Zorya Vechernyaya ("Aurora of The Evening'), Zurvan, Zvezda Dennitsa (Dennitsa)



Source:Goddess World
 
 
 
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November 14, 2003 1:37 PM

Prophetess,

How interesting that you would post on a public board, and then when someon disagrees with you, repeatedly insist that that person is "busting' in on the conversation.

H'm, I wonder what a public conversation is, then?

Your or your authority's thought that "refuting the details of scholarship" is somehow "smugly withdrawing from the debate," is flat wrong. What else is scholarship but finding the details that others have missed, and then putting them in their true place, showing the truth of the matter?

Which means that if the details are wrong, so is the thesis. If Martin Bernals' details are wrong, then so is he.

Now, he's not entirely wrong. I have in my own library a book from the 1960s--published by whites, by the way--that clearly shows and points out in both picture and text the relationship between the styles of the archaic Greek sculpture and that of Egypt. Moreover, it does not present that information as though it was a new discovery. So for some decades now at least, people have known that Egypt influenced early Greece.

So the basic theme of Bernal's work is right and should cause no controversy.

So where is it that people disagree with him?

First, his goal is not one of finding truth. Second, his linguistics is a little controversial, and third, he seems to bend an historical event to his convenience.

When he started his work, he admitted candidly, "The political purpose of Black Athena is to lessen European cultural arrogance." As a result, it is not always clear what in Bernal is conclusion from research and what is speculation from politics. His work becomes suspect as a whole because his aim is not truth but change. Thus, his historicity becomes dubious when he for no good reason, changes the time of the Thera volcano eruption, making it two hundred years earlier than is commonly accepted, in order to make it coincide with the Hyksos invasion of Crete and the collapse of a dynasty in China.

Moreover, he decides--without proving his point--that this invasion so influenced Bronze Age Greece that all that followed in Greece was a direct result of the Hyksos invasion.

But that was a thousand years before th time of Classical Greece, and Bernal effectively ignores the interim. What happened in Greece for a thousand years really ought to be of some interest to him, yet he does not deal with it at all. Could not Greece have made some decisions on its own in that length of time? African civilizations certainly did. Chinese civilizations certainly did. Why not Greece?

It is hard not to suspect that he ignores it because it is inconvenient to his thesis.

That's why he says that Greek civilization prgressed intact and virtually unchanged from the Bronze Age to the Classical Age, even through the Dark Age of Greece, from about 1100 to 750 bc.

The trouble is, the language changed quite a bit during that time, so why not other things as well? There is no evidence at all that the civilization of Grece was unchanged in all that time, and Bernal does not offer any.

In fact, if one looks at the classical period closely, there is very little historical consciousness of anything that happened before the end of the Dark Age. Little survived from there into the Classical Age anyway, so how could they remember anything that happened before the Dark Age? We have had the devil's own time finding out anything substantial about the Mycenaeans because there's little to find, let alone about the Minoans or the supposed Phoenician colony on Crete. Different people came in--the place was invaded not just by the Hyksos, but by the Minoans and the Mycenaeans, too, so Classical Greece was two civilzations removed from the afroasiatic invasion. Much was lost from that time.

But it is necessary to Bernal and his political goal that such a continuity exist even though he cannot prove it, so he insists on it, becoming just a little testy at those who are so narrowminded that they want "proof."

Now, about his linguistics. He claims rightly that there is quite a bit of nonIndo-European influence in the Classical Greek language. But Bernal concludes from this that cultural influences from the afroasiatics were equally strong, even in Classical Greece.

That's where he goes wrong in his linguistics. Vocabulary does not mean culture. Vocabulary is different from language. Greek is a strongly Indo-european language with words borrowed from other languages including, it would appear, Egyptian. But look at the number of words that English has borrowed. English is much more heavily influenced by Latin than Greek was by Egyptian. Yet we are not Romans. We have our own culture. Our language is about as influenced by German as Greek was by Egyptian, and you can see just how German we are. "Throw momma from the train her bags." "Throw the horse over the fence some hay." We don't talk like that. Germanic immigrants of the last century did.

Vocabluary is not culture. Bernal rejects that idea. He shouldn't.

The Greek language is very Indo-european. It's verbal system emphasizes time and duration of action (it has a lot of tenses--that was the most frustrating part of learning it for me. Why should ancient Greek have two aorist tenses? Why couldn't they be satisfied with the indicative, the simple past continuous, and the perfect (even if it includes the pluperfect) like any normal language? Noooooooo... Why did they emphasize so much the frequency of action in the past? Why were they so concerned about locating an action in time? I was to find out later that in this regard it is most similar to Russian and Spanish). Greek does this even more than Latin does.

Bernal--evidently not a Greek scholar (he is also a Sinologist, so there's no question about his intelligence)--says that the Greek language lost much of its forms by the Classical Age, but that simply is not true. If that is the case, then Greek lost more in the next 400 years than it did the the previous thousand. But it didn't. There's plenty of evidence in stone inscriptions from the Dark Age to show that Greek did not do what Bernal tries to say that it did.

Bernal tries to give an easy answer to the vexing question, "Who were the Greeks?" But as was said once, "To every complex problem there's a simple answer, and it's wrong."

Greece was a mix of so radically different city-states that if it weren't for geography one would be tempted to say that they couldn't possibly have coexisted. Yet they did. Bernal tries to make them much more similar, indeed much more homogeneous than they really were.

the problem with Bernal is that he is not a classical scholar. It takes many years to understand Greece because of its diversity, years that Bernal spent understanding China. He comes to the study of Greece without the proper tools and with an improper aim. As a result, while he is right about some basic issues, he is wrong about his major thesis.
 
 
 
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November 14, 2003 1:47 PM

Sun Nubian as you know a PUBLIC CONVERSATION is where 2 respectable black women of TRUTH talk because we choose to talk to one another, and we TRUTHFULLY IDENTIFY OUR RACE AND GENDER....that is what a public conversation is, well that, and having SOUNDNESS OF MIND to 'REMEMBER WHAT THE POINT OF A POST IS?' Big Grin


If some SLIMY DECEIVER bursts on a BLACK WOMAN'S SITE full of LIES, AND DECEITS denouncing ALL BLACK TRUTH and HILIARIOUSLY and GALLISHLY DEMANDING that you be entertained by them assaulting BLACKNESS in the midst of our BLACK DAUGHTERS LOOKING IN, that's s tantemount to what happened in AFRICA. Stupid colored boys laid prostrate and just let the white fiend arrogantly walk on his back into their territory and that's where they remain today. Live exhibitions is what I call it, and the colored boys doing the same thing today they did back then, so making we BLACK WOMEN GO IT ALONE, AGAIN! What dehumanized, slave boys they remain in need of an exorcism. This is what GOD who is TRUTH is showing you. The ACTIONS is where TRUTH DISCIPLES can be discerned from, strictly the ACTIONS. Or as BLACK/YESHUA/JESUS would put it, 'By their FRUIT you shall know them.'

At any rate, what a JOKE they are! Oh, and what FODDER FOR AMUSEMENT as haven't we been having a BALL skimming through live exhibition manure every now and then in order to exalt TRUTH?.... Big Grin

Whew, good friday, and feelin' good.... Cool

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Oh, almost forgot a friend of mine who looks in, e-mailed this to me to give to you with regard to 'UROPA' the GODDESS. She or I don't know if this is the exact one you are talking about but here's what she found:
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"Chapter XL
1. Fragapatti and his hosts remained thirty days with Gir-ak-shi, and great was the enjoyment of the people; and then Fragapatti departed, going to the kingdoms of Uropa, first Goddess of a barbarian division of the earth. The Voice of Jehovih had been with her from the first, but there were but few corporeans in her division, and only six hundred million angels, mostly drujas.
2. Nevertheless, Jehovih said unto Uropa: Thou shalt found here a kingdom in My name, and it shall become mighty in heaven and earth. Uropa said: What is the first best way, O Jehovih? Jehovih answered, saying: As for the drujas, thou knowest. But as for the corporeans, behold, they have neither copper nor iron, but use stone. Send, therefore, of thy hosts of ashars, five hundred who are well skilled in the art of inspiring mortals, to Arabin'ya; and thou shalt cause fifty men to migrate into thy lands. And the fifty men shall be such as are skilled in mining and working copper and iron.

3. And thy ashars shall inspire them to go to the mountains and find the ore, and then to work the same, to make tools of, and to make implements for hunting and fishing.

4. So Uropa sent angels to Arabin'ya, and they inspired fifty men to go to Uropa, and find copper and iron, and work it. And in the space of four years, behold, there had gone out of Arabin'ya not less than twenty thousand men. And the ashars inspired them to marry with the druks and half-breed I'huans. And in this way a new people of higher light was born into Uropa's division.

5. In Zeigl Uropa build her heavenly kingdom and founded the city of Oitch. Five hundred thousand angels were her holy Council, and fifty thousand captains; and of ashars, two millions, partly ethereans and partly atmosphereans.

6. Her heavenly kingdom was of the kind and manner of Gir-ak-shi's, and her administration in the same way. And in four years she had rescued nearly all the drujas in these regions of atmospherea. So when Fragapatti came to see her, she provided entertainments after the same manner as did Ger-ak-shi, having all her hosts present.

7. After this Fragapatti visited Kow'anea and his heavenly kingdoms, and also his earth divisions. Next Fragapatti visited M'wing'mi and his heavenly kingdoms and earth divisions. Next he visited Ots'ha'ta and his places, and then Soo'fwa.

8. With all these Lords and Gods Fragapatti spent many days, examining and recording all the labor done; and he spake before them all, so that his voice was heard by nearly all the people in the lower heavens. And so great was the work accomplished by Fragapatti with any one of these Lords or Gods, that were a history thereof written it would require the whole lifetime of a man to read it. Nor is it possible with earth words to describe the beauty and glory of a single one of these recreations in his travels.

Chapter XLI
1. The close of dawn was near at hand. Fragapatti returned to Mouru, the heavenly kingdom of Haraiti, in atmospherea, richly stored with a knowledge of the earth and her heavens. The capital was illuminated, and the decorum of the higher heavens prevailed.
2. Already were there assembled more than four thousand million angels prepared for the third resurrection. Fragapatti sent word to his Lord Gods, and to his Lords and Gods, and to Samati, God in inherent right up to the end of dawn. And he notified all of them of the day and hour when he should accomplish the resurrection.

3. And then Fragapatti called his swift messengers, whose labor is with the thrones of Jehovih in etherea. He said: Behold, the dawn of dan is near the close. The Brides and Bridegrooms of Jehovih will number ten thousand million souls. Two divisions will I make of grades fifty-five and seventy, for the forests and plains of Goomatchala. This ye shall communicate to Hoseis, Goddess of Alawatcha, on the road of Affolkistan, saluting in Jehovih's name, and of His Son, Fragapatti, Chief.

4. The swift messengers saluted, and then departed. Next he called the messengers for the kingdoms below, and of these messengers there were twenty thousand, divided into twelve groups, and they had been previously apportioned to certain divisions of heaven and earth.

5. To them Fragapatti said: To the Lord God of each division, and to the Lords and Gods, and through them to the officers under them, greeting, in the name of Jehovih! Appoint and annoint the successors in Jehovih's name; and when your kingdom is in order, appear ye at the throne of Mouru, for the resurrection of my hosts is near at hand. Provide ye ships and such vessels as are suitable, and bring, as visitors, from your kingdoms and most holy places, as many atmosphereans as desire to come, that they may witness the ceremonies and the ascent of Jehovih's Sons and Daughters.

6. And these commandments were carried unto all the divisions of the corporeal earth and her heavens. Fragapatti then said unto Athrava: Thou shalt receive the Brides and Bridegrooms. As for myself, I will go down to the earth and receive God and Zarathustra, and they shall be borne in mine own ship even unto this place, and thence to etherea.

7. In all places on earth and in heaven the spirit inhabitants were stirred to the utmost. In Haraiti there were already more than four thousand colonies, and every one had thousands and thousands eligible to the third resurrection, who would depart in the coming ascension. Of these there were persons of every occupation, and they were perfect in their order, belonging to groups and series of groups. And now the captains and generals were re-organizing them into phalanxes; and the Gods again organizing the phalanxes into kingdoms.

8. Zeredho sent her contributions to Haraiti, four hundred million souls. The Lord Gods were making their groups in their own several divisions, to be further organized after arriving at Mouru, the place whence the final ascension would take place. Some of these had a thousand millions of their own resurrection, including whom they had previously sent to Haraiti.

9. Fragapatti sent special messengers to God, Samati, to learn the day appointed for Zarathustra's death; and he further allotted to Zarathustra three days in hada, in which to preach to mortals by the inspiration of God, and appointed the fourth day thereafter as the time of his ascension from the earth.

10. And now, when all these matters had been put in shape, Fragapatti ordered the assembling of the sacred circle of the Holy Council, Sons and Daughters of the Most High. The lights were raised, and only Gods and Goddesses could remain in sight of, or near the throne of Jehovih. Fragapatti commanded Hoab to stand in the midst of the circle, facing the judgment seat.

11. Fragapatti said: Hear the words of thy Creator, O Hoab. I called thee up out of the ground, and with Mine Own spirit quickened I thee into life. From thy youth up I have followed thee day by day. I have called out to thee from My holy hill; with a woman's tenderness came I after thee. When thou didst try to run away from me, I followed after. Yea, I called My Son, high raised in My everlasting kingdoms, and I said unto him: O My Son, run thou quickly, for Hoab, My well-beloved, runneth away from Me. Go thou and bring him; for he is my Chosen.

12. He shall be My God of the red star; her heavens shall bow down before him. I will raise him up and anoint him with My holy fire; his countenance shall shine like a sun in My firmament.

13. And Fragapatti, My Son, overtook thee in thy flight; with great cunning he captured thee unto My labors. And thou hast raised up thy voice and glorified Me; thine arms have been bared to the harvest; thy fruit is a song of glory.

14. Have I not given thee experience in all things? Even to the precipice of hell made I thee to walk and fall not. The darkness of everlasting death I made to encompass thee; in the hour of thy despair I came to thee and raised thee up.

15. Have I not great profit in thee, My Son? My countless millions cry out in all places; they behold Me not; they know not of Me and My heavenly places. Like a troubled sea that knoweth no rest, the voices of mortals and angels forever cry out: There is no light!

16. Wherefore, then, was I not wise in thee, O Hoab? I made thee of strong limb, and with arms that reach far; thy judgment I fashioned for the great multitudes.

17. I say to the bird, the young bird with feathers: Fly! And it goeth away. I say to man: Go forth, in My name! But he looketh around. Again I say to him: Go forth! But he turneth to his neighbor for his opinion. Again I speak, calling: Come to Me! But he standeth wondering. Again I say: Come! But he saith: By and by. Again I say: Come! He replieth: I have not all light! Again I call, and he saith: Alas, there is nothing!

18. And he goeth down in darkness; he curseth Me and accuseth Me of errors! He preacheth My shortness, but in his words cutteth himself off from Me. In the foul-smelling place of his darkness, My holy angels cannot come; he burroweth himself in stubbornness that is blind and deaf.

19. But I blow My breath upon the earth and the stars; I drive them into new roads in the firmament of heaven. Into the dwelling-places of My high Gods I drive them as chaff before the wind. And when the light of My heavens hath cleared away the darkness, I send My Gods with great power.

20. To this end have I raised thee up, O Hoab. My shield is upon thee; thou shalt wear the triangle of the red star; two hundred years shalt thou hold dominion over the earth and her heavens. In My name speak, O Hoab!

21. Then spake Hoab, saying: Thy Voice is upon me, O Father! My limbs are weak; my hands tremble like an old man that is palsied. Behold, I have sought in vain to find anything perfect in me; I am as a trumpet that is bruised and split; there is no harmony or power within me.

22. Thou first gavest me a wife and sons and daughters to rule over and to raise up for Thy glory, but I failed utterly. My wife saw not with my eyes, nor heard with my ears, nor judged with my judgment; we were like two instruments, broken and out of tune. As for my sons, they went astray, like sheep without a herdsman; my advice was as weak to them as the shadow is to the tree. And my daughters went away from my love, and chose young men, even before my eyes.

23. Then I cried out unto Thee, saying: O Jehovih, why gavest Thou me a kingdom? Behold, it is scattered and gone! Then I went down into the grave in sorrow. But Thy hand raised up my soul in heaven; and Thou gavest me another kingdom. But my people would not see through my eyes nor hear through my ears. Then I sought to know if my eyes were not wrong, and my ears wrong, and my judgment wrong.

24. And I turned about, like one who is lost in a forest, and shutteth his eyes as to the direction of the sun, going by the sound of a multitude of tongues. And my kingdom drew a boundary around itself, and shut out all light. But Thy Son came and delivered me and my people.

25. Behold, I was as weak as a child; in my weakness Thy light came upon me. Never more shall I desire others to see through my eyes, or hear through my ears, or judge by my judgment. Thou hast healed me of my infirmity, O Jehovih. Only by one Eye can things be seen through; by one Ear can things be heard through; by one Judgment can things be judged.

26. Thou hast said: Go forth in My name! I will go, O Father! Thou hast said: Thou shalt have dominion over the earth and her heavens! This will I accomplish also, by Thy Light and Power, O Jehovih!

27. Then spake Jehovih through Fragapatti, saying: Accept the earth, O Hoab, My Son, My God! It is thine to keep and to rule over! Accept atmospherea, O Hoab, My Son, My God! It is thine to keep and to rule over!

28. Hoab said: I will be Thy Son, O Jehovih! I will be Thy God, O Jehovih! From Thee I accept the earth to keep and to rule over! From Thee I accept the earth's heavens, to keep and to rule over! Again Jehovih spake through Fragapatti, saying:

29. What thou doest henceforth do thou in My name, for it is of Me and is Me in thee!

30. Hoab said: What I do henceforth do I in Thy name, O Jehovih! For I know it is Thee in me that doeth all glorious things!

31. Jehovih spake through Fragapatti, saying: With Mine Own hands weave I a crown for thee My Son, My God of the red star! I place it on thy head for the glory of My kingdoms, which are endless in number and full of holiness! Wear thou My Crown, for it is with Wisdom and Power!

32. Then Fragapatti's hands were waved about by the Great Spirit, and a crown was woven and placed on Hoab's head, and it was brilliant and white, studded with countless millions of gems. Hoab said: Crown from Thy hand, O Father! I accept it and wear it, emblem of Thy kingdoms, endless in number and full of holiness. I know that Thou wilt ever be with me in Wisdom and Power! I will glorify Thee forever! My kingdoms shall glorify Thee forever!

33. The chief marshal now conducted Hoab to the throne of Jehovih, which had been previously vacated, and Hoab sat in the midst of the throne. In the meantime, the es'enaurs chanted a hymn of glory. Hoab then said: Fragapatti, Son of Jehovih, Orian Chief, come thou and honor my throne in the name of the Father. Then Fragapatti went to the throne and sat thereon. Next Hoab called up Athrava, then Hapacha, and then other Gods and Goddesses.

34. And now, whilst the Council held, Fragapatti said: Behold, the time of the death of Zarathustra hath come. Be ye here, and I will go quickly down to the earth and receive God and him, and the hosts of God and his Lords.

35. So Fragapatti departed, and sailed swiftly down to Parsi'e, on the earth, and came to the place of meeting of the corporeans who had charge of the Holy Word. And it was on the morning of the fourth day after Zarathustra's death. For three days and nights his spirit had been preaching to the Faithists, explaining the kingdoms of Jehovih.

36. So Fragapatti called unto God, saying: Behold, my Son, thy labor is done. In thee have I great delight. Behold, my ship lieth by the river; my lights are raised for the everlasting thrones! God (Samati) said: It is finished! That that thou didst put upon me I have done! Behold, here standeth Zarathustra, my Son.

37. Zarathustra was then taking leave of his corporeal friends, for his soul was fast becoming illuminated. Yea, he had looked up and beheld the ship of All Light, and he knew now the Voice of the Father.

38. So Fragapatti went and took Zarathustra in his arms, saying: Come, my beloved. Thy home is yonder! So, they went into the ship of fire and ascended to Mouru.

http://www.angelfire.com/in2/oahspe3/frag8.html

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[This message was edited by Prophetessofrage on November 14, 2003 at 11:25 AM.]
 
 
 
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November 14, 2003 2:04 PM

prophetess,


"Gallishly"?

sunnubian didn't ask what a public conversation was.

But I can see why you often let others do your talking for you. When you write, you can't keep your finger off the "caps lock" key. Must be very disturbing for you.

There is medication for that, however.

Oh, and about remembering "what the point of a post was," I merely answered your previous post. If I was off topic, then so were you. Have you remebered what the point of this post is yet? The fictional Queen Calafia? You've strayed a long way from her to ancient Greece.
 
 
 
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November 14, 2003 3:09 PM

OH, SIDEKICK MELESI THIS BEARS REPEATING SO SNIFF,SNIFF CLOSELY AS IS YOUR WAAAAY.

------------------------------------------------

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Creature Melesi I'll throw this one at ya, and be sure to catch it real good ya hear? Since you have shown the BLACK WOMEN looking in that you are obsessed over me, and bowwed down sniffing at my backside, demented though you be, you must surely not only recognize my love for jalepenos but I want you to recognize that your obsession, fixation, over MY GREATNESS is really kind of kinky, but if you must be a bowwed down, drag-a-long, sniffing at my backside, do keep in mind that you're an exhibition only, not to be talked to on any other occassion other than for laughs, what with you being COWARDLY AFRAID OF A BLACK WOMAN to the point that you are skeered to give your RACE AND GENDER. You are my voluntary disrespected sidekick and though I am amused as you show the TRUTH of your DEMON NATURE that you call CHRIST-LIKE If you had half a brain, what a half wit you'd be, but still 'sniff,sniff' on at my backside as I'm kinda flattered for all your UNDIVIDED ATTENTION.

Thanks for your support.

Tootaloo now.
 
 
 
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November 16, 2003 5:33 PM

That's not your backside, prophetess. It's your breath. I can understand why you can't tell the difference.
 
 
 
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November 21, 2003 4:52 PM

Origins and Geography of the Amazon Nation
by Carla Osborne
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The origins of the Amazons, if deduced only from Greek records, are obscure and purely mythological.
However, as in the case of the Greeks themselves, the records of other peoples and clues in their own culture
give more detail. Record of the Amazons lie also with the Ukrainians, the Chinese, the Scythians, Hittites, and
Indians, to name a few. The Amazon Nation consisted of a federation of numerous all women tribes from two
groups5 : women who left their villages temporarily for service to their Goddess, and women who preferred an all
female society. This was not considered harmful or unusual. Amazons and priestesses often formed the
backbone of medical and teaching personnel in communities. A wide variety of scientific knowledge was
preserved in the context of ritual and systems of divination. Bearing children was the task of a warrior, given
how physically dangerous it was to mother and child. Symbolically, the mother acts as a human gateway
between the worlds when giving birth, an extremely dangerous occupation demanding careful precautions.
At the time that Amazon tribes began to form, the primary deity was a Goddess, usually identified as the Lady
of Beasts, the Bird Goddess, or the Snake Goddess, categories developed by Dr. Marija Gimbutas. This was
particularly true of the Amazons, and is reflected in all mythology concerning them. Perhaps then, the easiest
way to trace the Amazons is to begin with their Goddesses, given the origin of their tribes in dedicated religious
colleges in North Africa and Anatolia approximately 10 000 years ago.
In the Myrine entry of Chapter One, two Goddesses of the Libyan Amazons were described: Sipylene of the
Moon and Sea, and Athena of the Sun. In fact, there was a third Goddess worshipped in the area, by a tribe of
Amazons later known as the Pallantids. This was Pallas Promachos (Pallas of the
Vanguard), whose mere shadow appeared in Athens later. The Pallantids eventually became hereditary enemies
of Athens, after the raids which broke the treaties signed after the Attic War.
The first recorded encounters between Greek and Amazon tribes occur in North Africa. Few authors make clear
that the Libyan Amazons were black, and that so too must be Athena, Pallas, and Sipylene. They may have
helped inspire divine female figures who have black skin in European folklore, apart from chthonic Goddesses
who are black due to their connection with the soil. The other source is ancient India, homeland of the
Goddesses Sera 'army' and Uma 'light' or 'Moon.' Sera seems to have been predominantly a war Goddess, but
Uma became Goddess of the Moon, war, and wisdom. Uma's name may be the root of the term 'Amazon' from
Uma-zoon, often translated 'Moon Warriors.' Amastis on the Black Sea may also be named for her, suggesting
that Amazons there were her worshippers. Sera's followers were settled on the Gulf of Amnissus.
The migration of Indian Amazons occurred early, probably corresponding to the invasions that destroyed the
Harrapan civilization (approximately 2000 BCE). They established early Northern Amazon settlements, and seem
to have made contact with the Libyan Amazons, whose Gorgon Goddess bears points of resemblance to Kali.
At last to the Greeks, who believed that all Amazons were descendants of Ares through Harmonia. Harmonia is
a title of Aphrodite, whose warlike aspect was more commonly known as Galatea. She comes from the Middle
East originally, and may be related to Astarte. Paphos was originally an Amazon colony, which suggests that
Aphrodite's warrior women brought her there. Still other Amazons were from Anatolia and Crete, as evidenced
by their worship of Artemis, Cybele, Rhea, and Gaea. All of these and Aphrodite were worshipped as Lady of
the Beasts and warrior Goddess. Athena was different.

A descendant of the Bird Goddess of Neolithic times, that was also her aspect among the Gorgons. The golden
Sun eagle was originally one of her forms. Marija Gimbutas demonstrated that the Bird and Snake Goddesses
were always together in Neolithic Old Europe6 . Eventually this was expressed as the combination of Athena
and Hera, whose temples were always placed near each other. In Libyan Amazonia, the Snake Goddess was
another aspect of Athena herself rather than a separate Goddess, although Greek writers later interpreted this
aspect as the Goddess they called Hera.
The Amazons of Old Europe saw their Bird Goddess replaced wholesale by a version of Athena as foreign to
their Libyan counterparts as she was to them, and their own Snake Goddess rewritten into an enemy. Daughter
of Rhea, who wielded the silver Moon sickle of Time, Hera wielded the labrys in defense of her Amazons, the
blows manifesting on earth as bolts of lightning. Eventually, she sent her daughter Heraklaea to defend her
people, an idea that impressed the Dorian Greeks so much they masculinized her and substantially rewrote her
labours.
It was this diverse group of people that created a confederation that influenced a huge territory that at its
largest extended from North Africa to the Danube. The Greek tribes that eventually encountered them had
already institutionalized the fear of women, firm in the belief that men were defenseless in the face of a women's
revolt. Their first engagements with the Amazons did nothing to disabuse them of the notion. Between the
devastatingly effective Amazon cavalry to their skilled use of warcries that froze or panicked the Greeks so
completely that the men thought themselves bewitched, they served as proof of the point. This and the refusal
by Amazons to submit to male authority led to an obsessive determination to destroy them.
Efforts at destruction proved to be in vain. When the Amazons were finally pushed out of their homelands, they
fled back to the Nation's roots in Tunis and Morocco, and then moved West and North through southern
Spain. The Valkyries were a Northern European Amazon tribe. As late as the 18th
century, Medieval histories recorded that Amazons ruled Ulm until the time of Alexander in a reign spanning
thousands of years. Later historians believed that Amazon customs only persisted until the 18th century, an
interesting congruence. That this is blatantly untrue can be seen at the all women festivals still held annually on
Giresun Adesi, formerly called Aretias on the Black Sea, the tradition of women only gatherings under the
auspices of 'tea' or 'crafts,' or the banding together of women for common cause. Present day movements such
as lesbian separatism and women only religious space are further reclamations of those customs.

GEOGRAPHY

The earliest Amazon Nation clearly located by the Greeks was centred on Lake Tritonis, in the lands of the
Libyan Amazons. It had been extended East toward Egypt after the geologic disaster that forced a migration
from the original island of Tritonia. Further expansion led to the occupation of the land around the future city of
Cyrene and into what is now the Libyan Stone Desert. Existing in a combination of pasture, desert, mountains,
and sea coast, the Libyan Amazons became wide ranging sailors and traders, known for their art, textiles, and
orchards. At the height of its influence, the Southern Amazon Nation spread North to Anatolia and the Black
Sea area. Probably the first tribe of Maeotides, Amazons of the Lake Maeotis-Tanais River area established their
settlement in this period, and other Amazons founded the Moon-Priestesshood of Troy, its royal line.
The leading tribes of the Nation and the nature of the Nation itself altered as the Libyans suffered increasingly
violent raids by Greek tribes, as much due to the trade competition they represented as their different cultural
values. It was under these circumstances that Lysippe, a queen of the Maeotide colony began working to
improve the organization, connections, and defense of the Northern Amazons.
An unspecified disaster, or perhaps the need to take up a better area militarily and agriculturally, caused
Lysippe to move her people to the Thermodontine plain. The river flows from the former Amazon Mountains
and empties into the Black Sea, watering a great plain roamed by wild horses. The capital proved so
unapproachable that the Chinese, Cherkesians, and Indians all described it as such.
The new centre of the Amazon Nation soon included a ring of fortresses on the Thermodon plain, and roads cut
straight and level through solid rock. Extant throughout most of the Bronze Age, it consisted of the Taurian
Mountains, Russian Steppes, Northern Anatolia, Thrake, and Southern Scythia
up to the Southern and Western banks of the Danube. They named the rivers ending at the Black Sea for their
Great Goddess, Artemis-Diana-Danuna. Taurus, Lemnos, Lesbos, Paphos, Smyrna, Ephesus, Kymes,
Samothrake, and Kappadocia were all Amazon colonies, part of the Nation from the time of the
third famous Myrine of the Libyan dynasty.
On the Thermodon Plain, there were three Amazon queens, of whom Lysippe was the leader. Each founded a
city, later known as Themiskyra, Lykastia, and Chadesia. Lysippe's tribe was best known for its cavalry, the first
in that part of the continent, the Chadesians for their skill with javelin and spear. They garnered many names
from their varied neighbours, from Emetchi 'those who count from the mother' among the Cherkesians, Oiorpata
'mankillers' to the Scythians, Anthropophagi 'man eaters' to Northern Greeks and Thrakians, and perhaps
Aemetzai among the Kalmucks.


5. The religious origins of Amazon tribes presented here were described by Budapest, 4 p. 54. The role of
religion in the creation of the Amazon Nation were also alluded to by Salmonson, p. 12.

6. Approximately Southern Europe, the Aegean Islands, and present day Turkey.


#. http://www.amazonation.com/Origins&Geo.html

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November 26, 2003 12:43 PM

How interesting that you would take the words of a nineteenth-century white American dentist, John Ballou Newbrough, who lived from 1828 to 1891, who claims to have written this work under "spiritual influence' (also known as "automatic writing").

This is another fiction that POR has taken as some kind of fact or proof without checking her sources.

So old dead white men are your authorities now, prophetess?
 
 
 
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November 26, 2003 12:50 PM

H'm--

Sorry about the placement of that last post. IT really refers to a post on the first page of this thread, the one about "Uropa" and "Fragapatti." This was presented to us as some sort of proof of "Uropa's" cult, and thus the source of the naming of "Europe."

In all my research I had never come across the name of the ancient goddess "Uropa." I didn't find it until POR kindly but uncritically posted the words that a friend apparently sent her, and the reference to "Fragapatti" rang a bell. There is no ancient goddess named "Fragapatti," but there was one created by a spiritualist in the nineteenth century.

I went looking, and lo and behold I found the creation of "Uropa," too.

So a mystery is solved. Europe was named some time before the nineteenth century, I believe, but "Uropa" didn't exist until an imaginative dentist in the middle of the 1800s created her.

Sorry about the name of Europe, but it wasn't named after some goddess. It's the goddess who was named for the continent.
 
 
 
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November 30, 2003 3:59 PM

The True Tale of White Melesi & her little colored boys;

Hi Black women, especially you new young black women coming in. I know you are aghast at the 'ministrel show' being performed by the colored boy types who are by and large Ward Connelly, Clarence Thomas colored Republicans. Oh, and they are all professed born-again Christians. They are fighting on behalf of the central figure, MELESI the WHITE GIRL. See, Melesi has had a nervous breakdown right before
all the internet world to behold. How? What brought it about? Like the Bible says, 'Pride came before her downfall.'

She brought it on herself, because she is a WHITE GIRL who decided to burst into SISTASPOT and take on the power of TRUTH. Of course she
immediately fell, and fell hard. I'm talking this horse buckling before she even got out the gate type of failed. I mean, 'laughingstock' type of failed and as a result she is so enraged, humiliated, defeated that she is behind mustering up her colored republican BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN boys who are actively seeking to get rid of the source GOD used to bring her and her colored buzzards down, a BLACK WOMAN. Story of our life, eh?

Actually, this 'comedy of errors' they are performing reminds me of the movie 'The Wizard of Oz.' You know the part where the wicked witch is enraged because someone is helping Dorothy be victorious so she sends forth her chimp army to abduct Dorothy, and poor ToTo too? Yeah, well this is the confusing scenario at play that I thought to keep you abreast of. Meaning you new ones flocking in as word gets out. Hey, it's pre-Thanksgiving festive mood and a laugh of all laughs shall you get out of this one. I'm talking internet classic.

Myself? For those who don't know, I'm the sweet angel God sent to put Black truth out for our black daughters. Gregarious, outrageous, witty,
funny, skillful warrior of truth, oh yeah. I ch ose the Sistaspot to do it, as well, it's the 'Sista's spot.' So merrily enter I, I go, "Hi black women, here's some truths for our beloved daughters" and proceeded to put forth truths on a variety of issues concerning oh anything from those colored republicans (not worthy to be called black since they are black self-loathers and have exhibited it for you) to proof of Black Jesus of the Bible.

http://www.africanamerica.org/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=60260642&f=40070883&m=63170848

http://www.africanamerica.org/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=60260642&f=40070883&m=60170738

I also came forth asking Black women to unite, pray and do spiritual warfare against the enemy within and the enemy without. In other words,
call on our God, unite, because it is the Clarence Thomases, Ward Connelly sort who would give kooky, psychotic white Melesi the same
100% rule and reign over blacks as they had in segregation in as much as, they fight to strip the 'safety nets' of Affirmative Action, Voting
Rights and Civil Rights laws.

I also asked black women to get involved in aiding African women of the 52 African countries besides many political units as they are begging African/American women to save them from their he mates who have antiquated, barbaric customs that keeps the African woman downtrodden, enslaved, raped, violated, stripped of all Civil Rights and treated as
less than dirt. Again, not by the white racist fiend who rules Africa and uses the resources to run Europe, U.S, Israel, while depriving the
ignorant African of any use of his own resources. To mask his cowardliness and bottom rung status, he then turns around and takes it
ou t on the African woman. Oh, you'll find a myriad of topics on this board with regard to the poor African woman's plight at the hand of her mate.

http://www.africanamerica.org/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=60260642&f=746604164&m=20160491


At any rate, you must be asking, 'well, if you're talking strictly to black women, how did all this cause kooky, psychotic, white girl Melesi to have a nervous breakdown before all the internet world?' Well, she as is her arrogant, demonic nature just burst in like a bat out of hell, and decided to take up for her subservient colored boys. She felt she had the right to come in, and demand to be heard. She started on her journey towards what I immediately knew would be her nervous breakdown quite idiotically on a post about GOD. Oh, didn't I mention it? Kooky, psychotic, white girl Melesi professes to be a 'born-again Christian' and full of her alleged 'Christian spirit' she angrily, madly, started out on her descent quite, uh, in a word, stupidly.


Meaning, She actually had the gall to come up in a black woman's site designed for black women, and utter, 'I'm not going to tell you
anything, No, you answer me, you answer all my great knowledge, because I know the Greek/Hebrew word to everything'.

Actually, I didn't even start the post and only entered to answer a in general question posed by the writer. check it out.

http://www.africanamerica.org/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=60260642&f=40070883&m=63070547


This is my introduction to kooky, psychotic white girl Melesi. Well, having dismissed her as a 'nutcase' I go on about my business posting
commentary on black w omen issues, and enter kooky, psychotic Melesi, yeah, the demented derelict actually stalks me on this SISTASPOT where I'm solely addressing Black women issues surrounding Black women. Of course, in JESUS NAME mind you, strictly in Jesus Name is she full of arrogance and hate seeking to stop 'freedom of speech.'

So I seeing this kooky, psychotic, white girl Melesi about to be exposed as so, politely, graciously and with a 'Christian' spirit no less, sought to calm her descent into madness. I asked the most simplistic and basic question, 'What is your race and gender' because it was obvious she was not a black woman, so what's her kooky, psychotic beef? Is her alleged Christian eyes blinded to the madness that is about her? Was her innards that she professes to be Christ-like so 'full of Satanic darkness' that she dared think the spirit of Truth light wasn't showing her 'Actions' to be just the opposite?
Yep, that kooky, psychotic white girl Melesi thoughtlessly thought just that.

http://www.africanamerica.org/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=60260642&f=40070883&m=25870628

She in her fury, said, get this black women, 'No, no, no, no, and ick pooh, I won't answer any of your questions but you better answer me. Come on, come on, answer me' in that unique nasal drone tone that you could literally hear. Well, you can imagine how I was giggling, guffawin' even, over this doozy. Still, full of Godly compassion, I sought to disengage her, ignore her, and calmly tell her to 'get lost' but all for naught, her destiny to have a 'nervous breakdown on the internet was set' and that, by her own stubs tapping in what would be her just sentence.


I move on to yet another topic, and another addressing ways black women can unify and fight the enemy within and without. Naturally, in order t o defeat such enemies we must denounce, withstand, all the lies, deceits, the enemy erected. Hence, entered the colored boy clown minstrel show. As long as I was strictly talking about the colored boy failures, kooky, psychotic, white girl Melesi stayed out of those post, what with her being holy and all, and instead, her pack of mules came galloping in violating my freedom of speech as they were oh so offended at the truth about their abhorrent, subservient, bowwed down, conduct.

They didn't want to hear any commentary on what a failure their actions showed them to be, and this is quite ironic as if you'll look in the
ISSUES, POLITICS, sections all the colored boy republicans do is stay staked out on this site 24-7 posting one post after another on how 'we
'blacks' are bad and their white trainer who has 100 % control over the wealth, resources, tax dollar, of the U.S. are good and Christ-like.' They believe we should not have control over where the collective tax dolla r of blacks go, rather white males should be the sole heirs. They believe white males are mistreated by us black folks because we don't trust them and had to have laws (Civil Rights) and bills (affirmative action) on the book that forces him to do right by blacks when we should just take all the laws off the books, trample the blood of all the lynch, beaten, jailed, killed, assasinated, blacks who worked to get laws to stop white madness, and simply 'let white males rule us' be as trusting as a lamb being led to the slaughter such as they are.

http://www.africanamerica.org/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=60260642&f=40070883&m=93070005

Well enough of that bs. So in they pop, one after another calling themselves, and do take note, radioraheem, immortal, get this, 'logic,'
Henry the african, no less, Vox the fox, Th aWatcher and other stragglers of that cotton pickin' fiber. I politely tell them that 'I'm strictly addressing black women issues on this black women spot and do not choose to correspond with them, so respect the black woman site and get lost,' the losers. Well, you can imagine the laughs were to no end on these little rascally rabids as they concentrated on such rebuttals as, 'your name is funny,' 'you said you love all blacks' actually I said, "I wish love/happiness to all righteous blacks' I just didn't say what I wished on the wicked enemy within and without but they got it all mixed up in their little old, empty, 'white bred heads.' So, as you might suspect they were 'goofy' as Clarence Thomas, stupid as Ward Connelly, and deranged as a 'house negro' proud to sell out blacks.

But they were all Christians, with Scripture quoting to prove it. So I decided to quote some TRUTH out of Scripture to combat them. Exit the
'colored boy clown' act, re-enter, yes, kooky, psychoti c white girlMelesi to denounce the Bible and the God thereof, that she claimed she
was over here defending. I said, Jesus was black, and her dispositon was, 'there are no absolutes' though she's not saying 'he wasn't black' mind you...teh..heh. I rebuttaled, 'stay out my post, as I don't want to correspond with you.' She kept coming, I ignored her, she kept coming, I admonished her in no uncertain terms, she kept coming, I demolished her, with the weapon of truth, and she all along, bowwed down, subservient, fixated, obsessed at my backside, would have kept coming but for big Henry the African who stopped her in her tracks, by telling her and I quote:"Melesi I am pleading with you, can you stay out of her way please. You are giving her the chance to make a monkey out of you and in the process ridicule her pet hate, which is the black male. I must admit I log in to have a good laugh as I watch her make mince meat out of anyone unfortunate enough to be at the receiving end of the v inegar tongue. I am sure there are many like me who log on just to watch the show and roll on the floor laughing. Unfortunately you have allowed yourself to be a source of amusement. I know you are a decent fellow that do not deserve the treatment so please desist from responding to her posts as she has made it clear she only wants to talk to the sisters."


http://www.africanamerica.org/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=60260642&f=40070883&m=60770778


That stopped kooky, psychotic, white girl Melesi in her track, well sort of. Those beady eyes bugged out had been tapping in incessantly (which isn't good for ya) thinking she's not the simpleton buffoon that she is, thought somehow by her denouncing all documented black truth, on a black site, in front of a house full of black women that she was winning some battle that she insisted she was having with me.

I'd put up one post after another with pictures of the black madonna and child, and she'd in front of black women who are showing their black daughters the pictures denigrate and denounce it. Oh, it was a work of art black women, a comedy of her own making, and me, with my witty nature could no longer resist being thoroughly amused via dragging my little voluntary bowwed down, backside sniffer along as I merrily put forth positive posts for our collective black daughters. What, with insisting on going from post to post denouncing black truth.



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Still, at big Henry the black African's word she saw the light and she was furious, you've never seen anything like it before. She w as stunned into reality, and like a pink-toed she-demon caught, humiliated, realizing that she was disgraced in the sight of all her white fellow demonic forces knowing black women had been laughing in hysterics AT HER, she flew after the powerful black man who had also appeared in the form of AFROMAN offering me support. I mean she flipflopped over to his
site called AFRICAN HSTORY and showed the world she was 'touched','cuckoo, a 'lunatic', 'cybernut,' a 'diabolical white racist she-demon enraged because I used a post of his 'matriarchal lineal' as another validation for our black daughters to understand the mother/son divine connection.

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I mean, the whole internet world could literally see her run, trot, fly after AF ROMAN (powerful black man), seething, 'I'll get you my pretty for helping her.' She went into the 'matrilineal post' and attacked it that way. She'd flipped out, her madness, thoroughly un-masked, a wolf, in wolf clothing thinking she looked like a heroic sheep of God. Alas, the deed was done, yes girls, the deed was done! Kooky, psychotic, Melesi had a full blown nervous breakdown, and all the internet world beheld it.

It was so obvious that she was burnt beet red with embarrassment to the point that leadership had to intervene to halt the spectacle she was
making of herself. It was hiliarious, I'll never get that image out of my head. Picture it, it's like those claws tried to grab AFROMAN by the back of the collar and strangle him for speaking a truth that I used to teach our black daughters, How sad, for shame, tsk...tsk, what a nut, and all that.

http://www.africanamerica.org/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=60260642&f=40070883&m=78270599

All those thousands of letters she and her fellow white demons sent to management trying to get me off, all her colored buzzards fighting for her, and she had lost, been humiliated by TRUTH speaking through a black woman minding her own business. In other words, Victory was mine!!!! Praise the God who is Truth and with the black woman to vindicate us and deliver us from such evil enemies within and without.

As said, management intervened and for a week to the day thereafter, there was great peace that abounded on this SISTASPOT. Once again, I
merrily returned to posting edifying FYI posts for black women of whom I was solely talking to in the first place.

http://www.africanamerica.org/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=60260642&f=40070883&m=74370699

Well, what's all this madness they have spewed all over this BLACK WOMAN'S site then? Well, girls though kooky, psychotic white girl Melesi was done in, it left a soar spot with her colored pets who do her bidding so in they galloped like a her of jackasses to desecrate the truth that had done them and their trainer what they see as 'kindly Missus Melesi' in. They wanted vengeance. Mind you, they didn't gang up on their white trainers over here calling them the 'N' word, rather, enter they into my post on of all things 'the defense of Michael Jackson, like a herd of jackasses and desecrated it with their colored boy mentality.

However, as said, the day before their MINSTREL SHOW I posted a FYI on 'Black women and the Michael Jackson' and out pops a new voice of
'hate, arrogance and uhm stupidity' the handle 'phoenixfemme' now this is a whol e other cankerworm. This one claims she's 'black.' Yet, she was offended at me repeating Michael's claim on the Fox special that he was a 'billionaire.' That right there let black women looking in know that this girl has a white mammy or sumptin', cause no SANE Black person on planet earth would be offended at a black male proclaiming himself a BILLIONAIRE. What's it's to us, he's rich and deservedly so, I calmly tell this new spawn who dared approach me with such nonsense, and the same 'you tell me this, and I'll tell you nothing', no,no,no, I won't verify my ethnicity and gender.' Check it out, Whew!

http://www.africanamerica.org/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=60260642&f=40070883&m=29670599

Well, I wasn't going to argue with some nutcase mad because Michael is a rich billionaire, and I wasn't going to answer a host of catty, 'you
tell me , give me proof' stupidity, sheer stupidity, as the post wasn't about Mike's billion dollar empire, rather the overall charges being hurled against 'presumption of innocent' Mike, which this phoenixfeeme more or less said, 'she wasn't going to respect U.S. law 'presumption of innocence' but rather, she was just going to 'withhold judgement' which is what the diabolical white racists are hurling all over the airwaves as a slight against 'presumption of innocence' meaning I believe he's guilty on the allegation alone.

The next day being Friday is when the herd of jackass colored boys pounced in to do the minstrel act in the above link. Well, girls there you have it this is the TRUTH, the WHOLE TRUTH and nothing but the TRUTH with regard to how kooky, psychotic, white girl melesi had her
nervous breakdown. I went merrily on my way, and had a great weekend as I always do.

Well, to bring you up to current standings, come Monday, I set to do ing my job posting posts of edification on all black sites so our black daughters can have access to the TRUTH. I posted 3 posts, "Intolerance and hate filled seen in Christians and their colored boys yipping at their feet,' 'Black Men, Vs. Colored boys, what's the difference?' And, "Newsflash: Update on Michael Jackson's problems.'

http://www.africanamerica.org/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=60260642&f=40070883&m=49070999

http://www.africanamerica.org/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=60260642&f=40070883&m=48070999

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Oh, mind you, after the colored boys did their minstrel act in Michael's post, out pops kooky, psychotic, white girl melesi to gloat as if that vindicated her humiliation and defeat. She wants vengeance. She twisted as a pretzel, gloated thus, " Might it not be that brothas don't always want to join "sistaspot" because if sistas didn't want their own forum they wouldn't have started it, so it's a matter of respect that they don't post here? At least not until something really flagrantly silly is put here? You must admit that prophetesses postts are rather over the top."

http://www.africanamerica.org/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=60260642&f=40070883&m=78270599

Then the little nutcase r esumed her insanity by re-entering my post demanding the moderator to take it off. Just going to tell black women
what we should and should not do, never realizing being kooky and psychotic that if she kept her stupid ass out of my posts like I've
repeatedly told the ass sniffer, then she wouldn't get slashed. See's that's the demonic arrogance in whites that makes them insane. So I slashed her and laughed. I simply revealed her true motive for being up on a black site 24-7. I think she was crying, slobbering all over the keyboard she stays at day and nigh, and undoubtedly popping more pills than that dope addict, hyocrite Rush Limpballs.

http://www.africanamerica.org/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=60260642&f=40070883&m=69070999

She fumed and fretted because as said, she's kooky, psychotic, and waaay over the top. Which brings us to the galloping colored jackasses who have designed to GET ME OFF THIS BLACK WOMAN'S SITE SO KOOKY, PSYCHOTIC, WHITE GIRL MELESI CAN FEEL VINDICATED. Their really stupid in that 1. I have homefield advantage; 2. Their strategy to pop up posts that denigrates looks stupid on a BLACK WOMAN'S site; 3. They are made at management for not ˜banning' INNOCENT, LOVABLE ME; 4. Unlike the whites who trained them they are stupid and look stupid at their attempt to disrupt my FREEDOM OF SPEECH so kooky, psychotic, white girl melesi can be in this black woman's spot; and 5. Who cares, certainly not me, and obviously not management who kooky, psychotic, white girl melesi is angry at for not doing what she felt was the right thing to do. She's a white savage, come a pillaging our village and she rode in on the back of her colored pets who like in Africa bowwed down prostrate and let the white demon in and there he remains. So when you see kooky, psychotic white girl melesi in a black post making an idiot out of herself, just say, ˜kooky, psychotic white girl melesi' get lost you've had a nervous breakdown.


Now I know you're seething now, aghast, and unbelief at their insanity but it is their collective insanity that I came forth telling black women to fight, denounce, at all cost because these filthy, abominable beings are selling the black woman back into white enslavement with a big grin on their faces, what with their sick fetish for white girls of
which we thank God they want them, and have no ill-will towards the white girls as we bless them for taking that mess out of our midst. I
mean it, black women fess up, tell how you sit chilled and relax, eating popcorn, as you watch the white girls on Judge Mathis, Brown, Judy, begging the judges to make the colored male they've been supporting give them back a modicum or maxiumum allowed of the wealth they lavished on them prior to the breakup.

Anyhoo, in closing let me say, I've been a perfect angel on this site, posting black truth to black women in the name of Black Yeshua/Jesus who is for all people. I welcome black women to absorb, ponder the truth, and if anyone, be they a decent, respectful black woman out of all walks of life have a question or comment (pro or con) I will respectfully answer it or provide any information I can. Pass the truth along, have a great extended holiday, and keep speaking the truth, as truth alone, will set us free from the enemy within and without.

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Shssh....shsshs...kooky, psychotic white girl melesi you've had a nervous breakdown and since you like being bowwed down sniffing at my backside I can throw anything at ya, anytime I want to, and it is MY RIGHT TO GET YOU BANNED FROM MY POST so be an obedient, ass-sniffer, and stay quiet as we black women know what's best for you. Our little obsessed, fixated, cripple, sidekick and some think perverted species that's enjoying sniffing the aroma's of my backside and that's just appalling.
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KEVIN WROTE:"I feel you sister on this post......like I used to tell the CON-servs blacks......all blacks do not have to think alike but we should all have SOME level of accordance based on the similarities of our social realities....

* Like Ice Cube once said.....SOME brothers do not like strong sisters because they make them be a man and call them out on their dumb shit...... I never had that problem thank goodness.........."
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Like (0 likes)
A1
 
December 1, 2003 1:06 PM

Over and over the same post on thread after thread. It's sad what having a third of a brain will make you do. Nowhere in that "reply" is there any semblance of a thought.

"Uropa" is a fake. "Calafia" is a fake.

You are a fake.

All you do is distract from the issues. You state false posts and then when you're called on them, you snarl as if that is some kind of answer. YOu pretend that you exalt blackness and womanhood, but all you do is to lie about it, making statements that are so easily found out to be wrong, and you do all of us more harm than good.

You lie, and then you defend those lies with name-calling? We don't need anyone like you defending anything.

As I said--which you did not answer--you have said that I am an unidentified specimen, a black male, white male lusting after black women, and now I am a "kooky" white girl.

Which is it? Not that it matters since you don't really know--and that really bothers you, doesn't it? That's because you have a need to attack the person and not address the issue. Truth is not important to you, but power is, even if it's just power in your own head.

If one can call it a head.
 
 
 
Like (0 likes)
 
December 3, 2003 3:22 PM

Melesi, I don't usually talk to my ass kissing slaves who are obssessed and fixated with me, but you're such a pathetic little white demon spawn that behaves like a 7 year old, idiot that I can't help USING you as my exhibit. However, I see, I'm not the first black to tell you to get the hell out of their face, but you have a psychosis that keeps you spouting your insanity that your god satan embedded in you.


So on behalf of little black girls who will read the truth of the black goddesses, black ISRAEL, BLACK JESUS/YESHUA, BLACKNESS THAT PRECEDED ALL and keeps your demon blood boiling, I'll just put up the proof that YOU a little, ghost come a haunting, full of demonic arrogance and insanity are offended at. Not that everyone doesn't see your madness anyway, well, everyone but your galloping jackasses who allows you to mount them as you ride about performing your idiocy act. You remain a joke, a fool, and an obscenity fit for destruction.

See, now, I have spoken AT ya, which probably thrills a perverted 'lesbian in heat' that you have shown yourself to be.

Now, get your stupid ass over here, and answer it, slavegirl, I said, GIT, you TWIT!



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JAMES CHESTER THE GREAT: TO THE TWIT, NITWIT, MELESI:"The posts are so long I have to wait until later. I became exasperated that your ignorance could be so obvious, and your argument so loud.

You are in the wrong place. Your position has been shown to be wrong generations ago. Europe's "experts" have tried repeatedly to make Egypt a white nation. They tried to make it a red nation. Anything dear God, but not a black nation. Please read: "The African Origin of Civilization -- Myth or Reality" by Cheikh Anta Diop.

The "fraternity" of archaeologists tried to keep this man buried by not giving him his doctorate pursuant to his thesis on Egypt. It turned Europe's history of Africa on its head. It took seven years, and according to my information the intervention and leverage of John Henrick Clarke, PhD (Cornel University) to break the freeze on this break-through research.

Nmaginate, Kevin41, IMMORTAL LOGIC, Yssys, and others are being very nice to you. They are treating you with respect. But, continuing to push this age-old "snow job" is starting to get old fast. This constant effort to bury the history of Africa with what we all know is garbage is becoming offensive. You can't be that dumb!!! Clearly your are ignorant of the history of Africa, or misinformed. But, if it is a case of misinforation, when, and WHERE, did you go to school that such trash is being taught. If you got the information on your own, you need to stop. If you said this in person to someone, you might literally be in danger. It's an insult to the intelligence of all people of African ancestry. Except maybe the Egyptians themselves who also don't want to own their history. Are you Egyptian? Is that the problem?

I'll send you a copy of the book if you will e-mail me your address. Come back after you have read the book, and let's talk.

Please.

If you are a "begat" enthusiast, read "Race and Religion" by Frereick K. Price, PhD. It is considered a definitive work. And its recent --- within the last three years. He is a very well known minister out of Los Angeles, CA. He was apparently provoked into researching the subject after some "inappropriate" in the "community of nationally-known" pastors. So he "went to the book." Check it out.

PEACE"

Jim Chester

You are who you say you are. Your children are who you say you are.
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The Christian Origin of Racism: That Old Black Devil
Part I
by William Sierichs, Jr.

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Racism is rooted in the founding Christian belief that all non-Christians were servants/soldiers of Satan, the relentless and cunning enemy of the Christian god and all morality (1 Cor. 10:20–21, Gal. 4:8–9, John 8:44 for examples). Christians considered pagans who converted to be morally cleansed and "purified."

Christians called pagans and Jews who rejected conversion "obstinate," "atheists," and an "infection" in the world, and treated them as a constant threat to Christian purity. This was because on many occasions, Christians had turned to paganism or Judaism or to "heresies" that had roots in pagan philosophies. Christians were certain that pagans "knew" the truth of Christianity, but were so hopelessly snared by Satan that they stubbornly rejected Christianity's summons (Rom. 1:18–20, for example).

By force or persuasion, Christians converted the light-skinned pagans of Europe and northwestern Asia in a millennium of expansion. In the 15th century, Christian explorers, merchants, and settlers encountered new groups of dark-skinned pagans. Many Christians initially were optimistic about converting them. For various reasons, however, the new pagans proved highly resistant.

Christians had equated the color black with evil as early as the second century. In Satan"”The Early Christian Tradition, historian Jeffrey Burton Russell said the second-century Epistle of Barnabas portrayed a war between God and Satan, with clear choices. One could follow a path to heaven, while a "road of darkness, under the power of ˜the Black One,' leads to ruin. The equation of evil, darkness, and blackness, a source of later racial stereotypes, occurs here for the first time in Christian literature. The immediate sources of Barnabas' use of the terms ˜black' and ˜blackness' are Jewish, Ebonite, and Greek. Behind these is the Mazdaist idea of the darkness of Ahriman, and behind Ahriman is the worldwide, almost universal, use of blackness as a symbol of evil."

Russell added that the Devil's dark color represented his lack of goodness and light, and did not have a racial connection"”he might be black but have European features.

Some Christians from an early period, however, did depict Satan and his demons as African or in a context that linked black skin to Satan. An influential 4th-century biography said Satan repeatedly tempted the monk St. Anthony, who was living in the Egyptian desert, and once "he appeared to Anthony like a black boy, taking a visible shape in accordance with the colour of his mind. . . . ."

In a 7th-century biography of clergy in Merida, Spain, a man had a vision in which he saw "some hideous and terrifying Ethiopians, giants, most vile to behold in their darkness, so that from their restless gaze and jet-black faces he was given to understand as he saw them clearly that they were beyond doubt servants of hell." A similar linkage of the Devil to Africans also appeared in the "Passion of St. Perpetua and St. Felicity."

A popular medieval story, "The Voyage of St. Brendan," said the Devil once corrupted a monk. ". . . St. Brendan witnessed the machinations of the evil one. He saw a little Ethiopian boy holding out a silver necklace and juggling with it in front of the monk," who had stolen a necklace. Later, Brendan and other monks "see a little Ethiopian boy pop out of the culprit's breast and cry out: ˜Man of God, why are you expelling me from the home I have lived in these past seven years? You are casting me off from my inheritance.'"

The eighth-century English historian Bede recounted a story by King Coenred of Mercia who, on his deathbed, claimed that he had been visited by "a horde of wicked spirits . . . then one, who from the blackness of his dusky face and his exalted position seemed to be their chief."

The 12th-century English historian Orderuc Vitalis claimed St. Taurin battled demons in the 3rd-century French city of Evreux. "After this Taurin entered the temple of Diana, and by the power of God commanded the devil to come forth before the people. At the sight of him the heathen populace trembled in fear. For he appeared to them clearly as an Ethiopian, black as soot, with a flowing beard, breathing sparks of fire from his mouth."

So by the 16th century, when Martin Luther claimed that Jews chose "to look into the devil's black, dark, lying behind, and worship his stench," many of his readers likely pictured an African, not just a generic demon.

Christians eventually turned to their scriptures to "prove" Africans, American Indians, and Asians had dark skin from some divine curse. Long before that, though, they had made a connection between skin color, Satan worship, and a predisposition to immorality.

To be continued.


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William Sierichs, Jr. is a copy editor on The Advocate in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. This material is from a book he is writing, The Christian Origin of Totalitarianism.


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http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/aah/sierichs_12_4.htm
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The Hebrew People of the Bible What Color are They?
By Chawviv ben Yisrael



For years, people of the world have been led to believe that the
people of the bible were white people, when in fact they were black.
Hollywood, one of the many contributing factors to this cause, isn't
innocent to this either, they take the front line for the ranks of
deception. We the people of the world should not continue to let this
occur because the ones to be affected by this will be the children of
the future.

Movies, television and some white people portray the people of the
bible as white. What should it matter, if they are white or black.
Should it matter, if they are white or black? If I were white, I'd
say no, and if this was an ideal world and if all affluent people
looked like me. But we are living in a world of lies and deception
and when the children's minds develop off of the deception that is
being told and taught, then the truth must be brought to the
forefront. Also, I am not white and the more affluent doesn't look
like me.

People of color are more vulnerable and are more easily to believe
what is being told to them, especially when their history has been
erased from their minds, and it is constantly battered in their heads
through their educational systems, television, and movie theaters.
Well, the time has come for the truth to be told. And what is that
truth? That the people of the bible are people of color.

Before I can go forward, I need to go backwards into some history.
Lets look at the people of the bible, who had who.

Genesis 10:2-4, Japheth begot Gomer (*Galatians) (**Germany, Crimea,
Cambria, Celts), Magog (*Scythians) (**Georgia, Scythians), Madai
(*Medes), Javan (*Grecians), Tubal (*Iberes), Meshech (**Moscow), and
Tiras. Gomer begot Ashkenaz (*Rheginians) (**Germany, Saxons,
Scandavia), Riphath, and Togarmah. Javan begot Elishah, Tarshish,
Kittim (**Cyprus) (Abraham ibn Ezra said the Romans were descended
from Kittim), and Dodanim. (*denotes The Complete Works of Josephus.
**denotes The table of the Nations off the Web)

Genesis 10:6-18, Ham begot Cush (*Ethiopians), Mizraim (*Egypt), Phut
(*Libya), and Canaan. Cush begot Nimrod, Seba, Havilah, Sabtah,
Raamah, and Sabtechah. Raamah begot Sheba and Dedan. Mizraim begot
Ludim, Anamim, Lehabim, Naphtuhim, Pathrusim, Casluhim, and
Caphtorim. Canaan begot Sidon, Heth, Jebusites, Amorites, Girgasites,
Hivites, Arkites, Sinites, Arvadites, Zemarites, and Hamathite.

Genesis 10:22-29, Shem begot Elam, Asshur, Arphaxad (*Chaldeans),
Lud, and Aram. Aram begot Uz, Hul, Gether, and Mash. Arphaxad begot
Salah. Salah begot Eber. Eber begot Peleg (from here comes the family
of Abraham) and Joktan. Joktan begot Almodad, Sheleph, Hazarmaveth,
Jerah, Hadoram, Uzal, Diklah, Obal, Abimael, Sheba, Ophir, Havilah,
and Jobab
.
And Noah and his wife created Japheth, Ham, and Shem.

After the dispersion of the people by God at the tower of Babel, each
went into their own region of the world. Japheth and his family went
into Europe. Shem and Ham stayed in the area, so to say.

Mizraim (Egypt) and some of his family went into a land now called
Africa, but it wasn't called Africa then. Cush (Ethiopia) had a very
large area which even went into what is now called Middle East.
Remember, Nimrod was a Cushite and the beginning of his kingdom was
Babel, Erech, Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar.

Around 1913BCE, there was a famine in the land. And due to the
famine, Abram (Abraham) and his wife Sarai journeyed to the land of
Egypt. But before he entered the land of Egypt he said to
Sarai, "Behold now, I know that you art a fair woman to look upon.
And it will come to pass, when the Egyptians shall see thee, that
they will say: This is his wife; and they will kill me, but thee they
will keep alive."

Now the incident came to pass, but Rabbi Shelomoh Yitschaki, Solomon
ben Isaac, also known as Rashi, said in his commentaries, reference
behold now, I know that thou art a fair woman, "Knowing that you are
beautiful, I realize that your beauty is now a source of danger,
particularly since the Egyptians are dark-skinned and ugly." Besides
this being a ridiculous comment, the point that I am trying to point
out is the fact that the Rabbi has stated that the Egyptians were
people of color. Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary defines black
as, "Having a dark skin . . . " and "a person belonging to a dark
skinned race . .

. " This may seem irrelevant now, but this quote by Rashi is going to
back fire on him. Stick with me. Also at least they have finally
admitted that the Egyptians were people of color.

Next, Joseph, one of the twelve sons of Jacob, from the twelve tribes
of Israel, was sold to some Ishmaelites by his brothers out of anger.
The Ishmaelites took Joseph into Egypt and sold him to the Egyptians.
Later a famine had struck the land of Egypt and Canaan and according
to the Bible all the lands and was very devastating. Jacob instructed
several of his sons to go into Egypt and buy food because Egypt had
enough to sell.

When the brothers of Joseph, the sons of Jacob had entered the land
of Egypt, they were told to see a particular person. Not knowing oh
the individual was they were going to see, when they faced him, they
didn't recognize him, but Joseph recognized them. If Joseph is
supposed to be a white person, and he was in the mist of black
people, don't you think his brothers would have recognized him
immediately. Why didn't his brothers recognize him immediately? Could
it have been due to him being black amongst black people and he
blended in? A white person definitely would have been able to be
pointed out if he was amongst black slaves during slavery time. Don't
you think?

Next, while the Israelites were living in the land of Egypt, Pharaoh
had commanded for all the Israelite males to be exterminated. Now
during this time, a couple from the Israelite people had borne a son,
and they had hid him for three months. When they couldn't hide him no
longer, she put the child into a basket and placed it among the reeds
by the bank of the Nile. The daughter of Pharaoh, wanting to bathe in
the Nile, went to the banks and saw the basket among the reeds and
when she opened the basket she saw a baby in it. Being that the baby
was very young, she instructed a Hebrew family, coincidently the
baby's mother, to nurse the child until he was weaned. Once he was
weaned, she brought the boy to her father and asked if she could keep
the child, and her father said yes. Also, the baby was named Moses.

Remembering that the Egyptians were black, if Moses was white and
knowing that Pharaoh had issued a decree to kill all the Hebrew
males, wouldn't he have killed Moses immediately when she brought
this supposedly white child into her father's house? Also, if he was
white, do you think Pharaoh's daughter would have even let the child
live when she found him by the Nile? Obviously we must say no.

Finally, Moses lived amongst the Egyptians for years and one day when
he saw an Egyptian abusing a Hebrew, he came to the aide of the
Hebrew and killed the Egyptian. Knowing that the word would get out
and back to Pharaoh, he fled Egypt and went to the land of Midian.
Upon entering Midian he came to the aide of some women of the land
and helped them. They were very grateful and ran back and told their
father that an "Egyptian" saved them.

Again, if he was mistaking for an Egyptian, and knowing that the
Egyptians are supposedly dark-skinned and ugly, does this make Moses
dark-skinned and ugly too? This is where people need to watch what
they say. It may come back to haunt you.

What I have presented here, which is merely speculation. The only
proof that I have given where someone has said the Egyptians where
black was by the Rabbi. So let me notegive more facts for you to
think about.

Herodotus (484? -425? BC) was one of the most widely traveled people
of his time. His writings show his interest in both history and
geography. Herodotus was born in Halicarnassus, a Greek colony in
Asia Minor. He was a frequent visitor to Athens, he was a close
friend of Sophocles. He also journeyed to the western shores of the
Black Sea, to southern Italy and Egypt, and to the Asian cities of
Tyre, Babylon, Ecbatana, Nineveh, and Susa, says the Compton's
Interactive encyclopedia.

During his travels, Herodotus kept a journal of his activities. The
journal was later translated, and in one of his entries, he wrote the
following about the Egyptians or to be more exact the natives:

" ...it is certain that the natives of the country are black . . . ;
there can be no doubt that the Colchians are an Egyptians race . . .
I made this inquiries on the subject both in Colchis and in Egypt,
and I found that the Colchians had a more distinct recollection of
the Egyptians, than the Egyptians had of them . . . My own
conjectures were founded, first, on the fact that they are black-
skinned and have woolly hair . . . "

Now, what I have done here is give a positive identification of the
Egyptians. And by me doing this and showing that the Israelites
always got mistaken for them, prove that they both, the Egyptians and
the Israelites were black people.

You may still have your doubts and desire more evidence before you
will acknowledge that the Bibilical Israelites were a black people.
So, allow me to continue.
Solomon Grayzel, a white Jewish historian, wrote in his book, A
History of the Jews, in the ninth century CE (AD), a man appeared in
north Africa among the Hebrews there, his name was Eldad from the
tribe of Dan, he was a danite. They said he spoke a strange language
and told them a weird story. He said the members of his tribe had
escaped Israel after Sennacherib had conquered Israel, and other
Hebrews from other tribes also live in the land from where he came
from. He told the Hebrews in the northern part of Africa all the law
that his people follow, which was given to his tribe by tradition
from Moses successor Joshua ben Nun. The Hebrews of the northern part
of Africa at first was in question about his story, but threw further
examine by the Gaon, he assured the northern African Hebrews the
story was legitimate.

I have mentioned this story because Mr Grayzel went on to say, "Some
modern scholars argue that Eldad was an Ethiopian Jew, a descendant
of the ancient colony which, in the days of Ezra, lived on the
southern border of Egypt . . . " If you know your history, and if you
know what color the Ethiopian Jews are, then you have already come to
the conclusion that Eldad the Danite, from the tribe of Dan, one of
the twelve tribes of Israel was a black man.

Another story that I want to tell you about is in a book
entitled "The Hope of Israel," by Menasseh ben Israel which was
published 1652. In it speaks of an incident that occurred with a
traveler named Antonio de Montezinos. It says upon Montezinos return
from the Americas, it is sufficient here to know that he has found
the descendants of the lost ten tribes. At this point, I am going to
quote the letter from Menasseh ben Israel to John Dury concerning
what he said. The letter was dated 25 November 1649 and it
reads, "Curiously enough, in the sixteenth century one Antonio
Montesino of Lima stated, according to the writings of Luis Lopez,
Bishop of Quito, that The Indians of the islands and mainland of the
Indies . . . are Hebrews descended from the Ten Lost Tribes of
Israel'. And he did say further in his book, "that they keepe their
true religion, as hoping to returne again into the Holy land in due
time."

People, if this isn't enough proof as to say what color the Hebrews
were, then you are truly in a state of denial.

Also, as for a pictorial concerning the children of Israel. In a
documentary on the Art & Entertainment channel, titled In Search of
The Ten Commandments, it showed an ancient hieroglyphic picture of
the Israelites while they were slaves in Egypt, and they were black.
They looked just like the Egyptians. So I can see why Moses was
mistaken for an Egyptian, and why Joseph wasn't recognized by his
brothers.

Finally, I am going to list three passages from the bible identifying
the color of the Israelites. They are:
Lamentation 4:8, Their visage (face) is blacker than coal
Lamentation 5:10, Our skin was black like an oven . . .
; And Job 30:30, My skin is black upon me . . .

In this document, I have given enough information proving that the
Hebrews are black people. But I say to you all, this isn't enough.
Teach your children the truth!


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---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

BLACK HEBREW ISRAELITES



Black Hebrews?
The very words cause many people to grin at what appears to be simply
a play on words. No one reads about such people in european authored
history books and there are only a few references to "Ethiopian Jews"
in white Jewish sources. Yet Black Hebrews have existed since
biblical times. In fact, they are the original or proto-typical
Hebrews.

Their story begins with the Patriarch Abraham (2117-1942 B.C.), a
native of the Sumerian city of Ur in ancient Mesopotamia.
Archaeological discoveries have proven that the earliest inhabitants
of southern Mesopotamia were members of the "Brown Race," i.e., the
Negroid branch of humanity.


It has been confirmed that the ancient Sumerians were akin to the
modern Black Dravidians of India. The Sumerians also had an affinity
with a people known as the Elamites, the very first Semitic group
mentioned in the Bible (Gen. 10:22). The Elamites were a black-
skinned and woolly-haired people as the colorful glazed artwork on
the royal palace walls of the ancient Persian city of Susa clearly
show.Thus Abraham, the native of Sumerian and the founding father of
the Israelite nation, was a black man. The black racial origins of
the Patriarchs is not based on mere conjecture, it is in complete
agreement with the picture one gets from examining the identity of
the earliest inhabitants of southern Mesopotamia.


This truth is grossly neglected, suppressed, and distorted in most
European and American historical texts which are flavored with race
prejudice. Fortunately, however, there are enough well authored and
highly researched works by Black historians that challenge the
Eurocentric revisions of history and correct the various erroneous
views regarding the ethnic identity of the Hebrews.


Biblical history relates that the descendants of Abraham, namely
Jacob (Israel) and his twelve sons and their wives, 70 in all,
migrated from Canaan to Egypt around the year 1827 B.C. During their
sojourn in Egypt the Children of Israel multiplied from being a
family of 70 souls to a nation of over 3 million people at the time
of the Exodus which took place in 1612 B.C.


This astounding number of people in so short a time can only be
adequately explained by intermarriage between the family of Jacob and
the native Egyptian populace. It is an established fact that the
ancient Egyptians were a black African people. Thus, even if the
Hebrews were not black before they arrived in Egypt, which is
unlikely given Abraham's background, they were definitely black by
the time they left Egypt under Moses


The biblical Hebrews were indistinguishable from native Egyptians and
Ethiopians. The Bible is full of examples which demonstrates this,
and even ancient secular historians remarked of the physical
appearances of the Hebrews. The historian Tacitus, for example,
stated that it was a common opinion among the Romans that the
Jews "were an Ethiopian race." In Roman times PalestinianIsraelites
were classed among Black Africans because it was almost impossible to
tell them apart.


Hence, the Eurocentric notion of the Black Hebrew as a kind of
Johnnie-come-lately in Hebraic history does not accord with the
facts. On the contrary, the historical record is abundantly clear
that the majority of white European Jewry are not Hebrews in the
biological sense but are actually the descendants of converts to
Judaism during Greco-Roman and Mediaeval times. Professor Roland B.
Dixon states emphatically that: "The great majority of all Jews
[Ashkenazi] to-day are 'Semites' only in speech, and their true
ancestry goes back not so much to Palestine and Arabia as to the
uplands of Anatolia and Armenia, the Caucasus and the steppes of
Central Asia, and their nearest relatives are still to be found in
these areas to-day" (Racial History Of Man, p. 175).


Caucasian Jews are not the lineal descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and
Jacob. Nor do they constitute a separate race but rather a religious
fraternity which adheres to the ethnic tradition of a people whose
origins are inextricably linked to Black Africa.


But if the original Hebrews were black where are their descendants in
the world today? Are all black people Hebrews? The answer to the
latter question is obviously no. The Israelites were only one of
several black people existing in ancient the ancient world.
Nevertheless, it is certain that the ancient Hebrews customs and
practices who's legacy orginated in Africa, were adopted by that of
white Jews in Europe. Very little is heard about the hundreds of
thousands of Black Hebrews living in various parts of the world such
as Africa, Asia, India, Arabia, the Caribbean islands, South America,
and North America.


The history of Black Hebrews in North America is perhaps one of the
most important chapters in US history which has yet to be fully
written. The ancestors of African Americans came from West Africa
during the era of slavery. That particular region of Africa was once
home to a number of Black Hebrew tribes that migrated from North and
East Africa over many centuries. In speaking of these migrations, Dr.
Yoseph A. A. ben-Yochannan writes that: "In North Africa, just before
the period of Christianity's legal entry into Rome - due to
Constantine "the Great" conversion in the 4th century - there were
many Hebrew (Jewish) 'tribes' that are of indigenous African (the so-
called 'Negroes') origin.


These African Jews, as all other Romanized-African of this era, were
caught in a rebellion in Cyrene (Cyrenaica) during 115 C.E. against
Roman imperialism and colonialism. This rebellion also marked the
beginning of a mass Jewish migration southward into Soudan (Sudan or
West Africa) along the way of the city Aer (Air) and into the
countries of Futa Jalon and Senegal (Sene-Gambia) which lie below the
parabolic curve of the Niger River's most northern reaches, where the
City of Tumbut (Timbuktu, Timbuctoo, etc.), Melle (Mali) presently
stands." ("African Origins of the Major Western Religions," 1970, p.
76).

Dr. Ben goes on to relate that Black Israelite immigrants from
northern and eastern Africa merged with indigenous groups in western
Africa to become the Fulani of Futa Jalon, Bornu, Kamen, and Lake
Chad. They also formed the parent-stock of groups such as the
Ashanti, the Hausa, the B'nai Ephraim (mentioned in earlier posts),
and the Bavumbu (Mavumbu or Ma-yomba). All of these groups suffered
tremendous population decreases during the years the Atlantic slave
trade was in operation, others were completely eliminated.

Thus, every so-called African American has Israelite ancestry in
their family tree whether he or she knows it or not. Even in the very
crucible of slavery the descendants of West African Hebrew captives
in America struggled to keep their heritages from being obliterated
by forced assimilation and acculturation. Their distinctive
traditions became submerged in Christianity but always remained a
part of the oral tradition via the so-called Negro Spirituals which
praise the memory of ancestors and kinsmen like Moses, David, Joshua,
and Daniel.

Since the African-American conviction of having Israelite ancestry
antedates the Civil War it is not surprising that the earliest Black
Hebrew congregation to be established in North America was founded in
the 1880s in Chattanooga, Tennessee by F. S. Cherry (the group later
moved to Philadelphia). Cherry was a railroad worker and seaman who
was fluent in both Yiddish and Hebrew. He adamantly preached that so-
called American Negroes are really the lost sheep of the House of
Israel whose true legacy was stolen from them during slavery. He
urged his hearers to investigate their history in order to rediscover
this truth and reclaim their heritage.

In 1896, a man by the name of William S. Crowdy established another
Hebrew congregation in Lawrence, Kansas. In 1899, Leon Richlieu
established the Moorish Zionist Temple in Brooklyn. To date there are
literally hundreds of uncharted Black Hebrew congregations in North
America. They do not exist because of an aversion for mainstream
American Protestantism or an attraction to white Jewish culture. As
stated earlier, Black Hebrews have always been in the world; and they
repudiate the notion that they are usurpers of the heritage of white
Jews.

The great proliferation of Black Hebrew groups occurred after World
War I during the Great Migration of Blacks from rural areas in the
South to urban centers in the North. There were at least nine Black
Hebrew congregations in New York in the early 1900s, one of which was
founded by a West Indian named Arnold Josiah Ford called "Beth B'nai
Abraham Congregation." In 1918, another West Indian born Israelite
named Wentworth Arthur Matthews founded the "Commandment Keepers,"
and emerged as one of the leading Black Israelite rabbis in Harlem.
Born in 1892 of African Hebraic parentage in Lagos, West Africa,
Matthews moved with his family to St. Kitts in the West Indies before
coming to America in 1911.

Branches of the "Commandment Keepers" exist in many American cities
such as Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, Cincinnati, Chicago,
Ohio, Virginia, and New Jersey. In 1965, the "House of Judah" was
founded by William Lewis in Wetumpka, Alabama. The group later
purchased a twenty-acre tract near Grand Junction, Michigan where
they practice a communal life-style. Black Hebrews feel that by
reclaiming their Israelite identity they have also recovered an
important part of their ancestral heritage. They hold to the
conviction that their "Hebrewness" is directly traceable to their
African forebears of Israelite extraction who were brought to this
country during slavery. They are cognizant and proud of their non-
Hebrew African heritages but like many other people with mixed
backgrounds they opt to give certain of their forebears a more
pronounced place in their identity.

Black Israelite groups in America are decentralized and varied in
ideology.Unlike white Orthodox Jews, Black Hebrews reject the Talmud,
a collection of commentaries, as being on a par with the Bible and so
they do not conform to rabbinical judgments which emphasize the need
of conversion to Talmudism in order to be considered "truly" Jewish.

Since the Bible recognizes patrilineal as well as matrilineal
descent, Black Hebrews (like Reform Jews) do not place any special
significance on having a "Jewish" mother as do Orthodox Jews. Another
major reason why the Talmud is rejected is due to its role in
creating the so-called Hamitic Myth which is the doctrine that
teaches that all black-skinned people are the cursed descendants of
Ham in the Bible.

It was the promulgation of this erroneous myth, passing under the
guise of "Jewish" talmudic scholarship, which provided the moral
pretext for European slavery of Africans. The Talmud was not the
product of ethnic Hebrews but of proselytized Babylonian sages who
worked on editing it from the 3rd to in the 6th century A.D. It
should not be used as the litmus test on Hebrew identity,
particularly since it was of men who were clearly prejudice of
Blacks, Israelites or otherwise.

A major dilemma facing many Black Hebrews who wish to settle in
Israel has to do with the Talmud and the fact that conversion is a
mandatory prerequisite for gaining Israeli citizenship. The Black
Jews from Ethiopian were not allowed to immigrate to Israel until
they agreed to undergo a ceremonial conversion to white Judaism
(which was tantamount to a denial of their own Hebrewness) and
embrace the Talmud. However, many Ethiopian Jews, particular in the
aftermath of the recent blood scandal in Israel, are seriously
rethinking their decision to adopt the Talmud because it has not
given them equal status with other white Israelis.

Ethiopians Jews occupy the bottom rung of Israeli society today
because they are black and are not considered "true" Hebrews because
of their blackness. American Black Hebrews wanting to join their
Ethiopian brethren feel that the Israeli Law of Return is unjust
because it forces recognition of a racist text (the Talmud) in order
to be considered eligible for citizenship It is truly ironic that the
descendants of the original Hebrews are not considered to be Hebrews
even in their own land because they happen to look like their distant
forebears.


MAY 1999

The Black Goddess Forum
http://kissyku.tripod.com

http://groups.msn.com/F-R-E-E-D-O-M-/enlightenment.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=11&LastModified=4675444774204905322

[This message was edited by Prophetessofrage on December 03, 2003 at 12:52 PM.]
 
 
 
Like (0 likes)
A1
 
December 3, 2003 6:59 PM

She's baaaaack--and just as crazy as ever.

POR, you have such a habit of not thinking and letting other people do your talking for you.

Why don't you tell me what's on your...what your problem is. Mr. Chester was wrong in thinking that I was trying to make Egypt a "white nation." I was not, nor am I now. I know what color ancient Egypt was. There are some, however, who are using bad historical methods to try to prove that Egypt used to look like "us," whoever "us" are at the moment. But that's between him and me.

Instead of importing someone else's argument from another thread (and after you said that you only come to sistaspot to talk to black women, you little liar, you), why don't you try one of your own?

Ah, but the one who thinks that I am fixated with her is cruising the boards and threads looking for things about little ol' me. Sniffing my...what did you call it, prophetless?

Oh, well--have a nice day.
 
 
 
Like (0 likes)
 
December 3, 2003 9:12 PM

You do well, you slave heifer to get when I tell you to. Next time, be quicker about it, moron!

So you're not only a 'lesbian' enjoying sniffing but you admit you're a crazy wasp flitting about on OTHER BLACK PEOPLE'S post even though they told your stupid, crazy ass to get lost and you did well to do so, you psycho, little girl moron.

Look at your stupid ass can't even follow a post let alone, decipher it. Your crazy thoughtless moronic white ass so full of satanic hatred for BLACKNESS THAT PRECEDED YOU IN ALL THINGS do you really think a BLACK WITH SENSE gives a damn what a crazy, moron behaving like a 7 year old white girl thinks? You give off no hint of womanhood and you actually think you a white girl could ever go up against BLACK SCHOLARS DIOP, VAN SERTIMA, JEFFRIES AND A HOST OF OTHERS, who got more sense in their baby finger than a nitwit moron like you have in that leprous carcass of yours? Just like your STUPID ass won't listen to BLACK TRUTH neither will BLACKS LISTEN TO YOUR WHITE BRED DEMON LIES....you're a psycho, joke, flitting about like a wasp actually too stupid to think, let alone, think that a rational black person would hear a imbecile like you.

Now when you bring your stupid ass back over here remember we the BLACK RACE are laughing AT your crazy, immature, dimwitted, moronic ass. Now keep on sniffing....as is your way BUTCH.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Goddess in the Gospel
The Goddess in the Gospel, Reclaiming the Sacred Feminine. by Margaret Starbird.1998, Bear & Company Publishing, Santa Fe, New Mexico.

A review by Theresia Saers
After reading Starbird's book twice in the course of one week, I want first to remark that the author was destined to spend a great many years in search of a home for her soul. The sad loss of respect for the feminine in an almost totally male-oriented Church, and its tragic result for the faithful as well as for the wider world are at the centre of the book. Born and bred in a soldier's family she had married into one whose members had also served in the U.S. Army, and she needed to offset the predominance of this male environment by a specifically feminine shelter. A deep devotion to the Holy Spirit or Paraclete, her ˜Travelling Companion' led her eventually to Mary Magdalene.


This is the second book by Starbird to deal with Magdalene. It provides us with an account of the stages in the journey which led to her final conclusion.

In the first chapter, Pilgrim in Provence, we find ourselves in V̩zelay in 1996, and the author is approaching the famous cathedral which was built in the Middle Ages in honour of Mary Magdalene. It is a place full of echoes of the past, and Starbird, through her studies, is well equipped to note details that might have escaped less well-informed pilgrims such as myself. She recognises a relief in the sandstone, showing Moses taking off his sandals. Instantly she is aware that "this is holy ground." (Exo. 3:5) In the tympanum over the main entrance she notes that the left hand of Christ is missing. It seems prophetic to her that in this basilica dedicated to Mary Magdalene Рof all the hundreds of churches in France! - Christ should be maimed in this particular way, as if to show irrevocably that he is just not whole without her! The Magdalene of the statue holds a chalice, not the traditional alabaster jar but the Holy Grail, cradled against her body, in a pose evocative of a mother cherishing her unborn child. These details set the tone for the concatenation of coincidences that result in the strong conviction that Jesus and Magdalene were bound together in a sacred marriage, and that the Magdalene brought Christ's as yet unborn child to safety in the South of France.

Starbird intends to find who was really the ˜first lady' among the early Christians and to prove that the perceived misogyny of Christianity was not indigenous to the Church in its infancy and was never the teaching of Jesus, but that a sacred partnership was once at the very heart of the Christian message.

She travels to Montsegur and Les Saintes-Maries-de-la-Mer and to Saint Victor's abbey in Marseilles, the site of a sixth-century abbey that housed a community of both male and female clergy. She notes how many of the oldest churches in France do not have traditional steeples, but look more like fortresses than churches. It reminds her of the meaning of the epithet ˜Magdala', namely ˜watchtower' or ˜stronghold'. In the abbey church she finds Notre Dame de la Confessione, ˜Our Lady of the Witness', one of the famous black madonnas in France. Starbird is surprised to see her wear a large silver brooch in the shape of the fleur-de-lis, symbol of the Merovingian kings, rumoured to have been descended from the union of Christ and the Magdalene. In the crypt she finds a relief tableau of Christ on the cross with Mary kneeling , distraught, her arms clasping a large rock. It had the effect of a woman nine months pregnant. Eloquent stones?

This is only the beginning of a large chain of earlier coincidences on that particular pilgrimage, which Starbird makes us share in the course of the book. She holds that the present Pope has been instrumental to a revival of esteem of femininity by his enthusiastic worship of the Black Madonna of Czestochowa. (In a later chapter she is to add a wish for him to proceed on that route, because otherwise the Church will be in danger of collapse.) The Black Madonna echoes the neolithic ˜Triple Goddess', the sacred feminine. Numerous goddesses were rendered black: Isis, Cybele, Artemis, who modelled the sister-bride.

Starbird makes us linger at places where the Cathars have lived and suffered and comments on the gnostics. She is convinced that at the same time that Gospel-oriented versions of Christianity were eradicated, the strong worship for Mary, Jesus' mother, arose. From those days on, according to her, stonemasons built into their churches the belief they were no longer allowed to practise openly namely that for the earliest Christians it had been Mary Magdalene, the sister-bride of the Song of Songs who was the goddess in the gospels. The Magdalene, whose epithet meant ˜elevated' or ˜watchtower'.

On her way the author makes us share her insight in the meaning of tarot cards, a catechism for one of the forbidden religious systems. More interestingly she explains the working of gematria, a system of coding texts which was often used in antiquity. She is convinced that in the Greek text of the New Testament the authors have made use of gematria to point out hidden truths to those that have eyes to see. The epithet ˜Î· Μαγδαληνη' for the Magdalene in Greek e.g. bears the same number as ˜the fishes in the net', namely 153 (John 21:11), which leads Starbird to remark that they accordingly represent the community of believers, the ekklesia, the communal ˜Bride'. The number 153 in gematria was specifically identified with the Vescia Piscis, the ˜almond' shape, known as the ˜vessel' or ˜measure' of the fish. And of all numbers of in the ancient canon, the number 153 represented the Sacred Feminine – the Goddess in the Gospels. At one time the author approached a Bible scholar who had taken part in a seminar to find which of the so-called Jesus words were really spoken by him. She asked him whether they had consulted gematria. The answer was that the scholars had known of its existence but had not bothered to check. For those interested in Starbird's argument I shall ask her permission to print the whole chapter that deals with this subject, because she has more to say about the sacred union of Jesus and the Magdalene.

Starbird's final conclusion is as follows:

˜In light of the traditions of Judaism and the concrete evidence encoded by gematria in the Gospels themselves, I am certain that Jesus was married and that the woman called Magdalene was his partner, his Beloved, and his wife. These are her trump cards:

In Jewish tradition it was a normal thing for people to marry, so why would Jesus not have been married? Why would Mary Magdalene have chosen to remain single?
For people versed in gematria, the sacred system of geometry, used by the ancients to make alphabet letters carry symbolical meaning, the truth of the sacred marriage of Jesus and the Magdalene is there to see with their own eyes.
Starbird cannot have been aware that in the very same years that she was on her quest another scholar, John Wijngaards, was also trying to find and destroy the roots of the misogyny in the Catholic Church that she hoped to attack. He travelled another, yet not altogether dissimilar way. He also checked countless documents and artefacts, many of them referring to Mary Magdalene. In his view, too, she must have held a key position in the early Church. I must confess, however, that I find his arguments about what caused that awkward misogyny over the centuries more convincing than hers. They have more ˜body' than the circumstantial evidence provided by Starbird's coincidences.

I feel that the gematria argument affirms the position Wijngaards takes on the Magdalene, that she was an extremely important witness of faith and a great example for present-day women, but I do not take the ultimate leap towards the existence of a sacred marriage. Why?

The new tenet in Jesus' teaching was the fact that some people refrain from marriage for the sake of the kingdom. (Matthew 19:12)
I accept the gematria interpretation of ˜Bride' in the sense that she stands for the community of believers, in the same way as Jesus is the ˜Bridegroom' of his Church.
Nowhere have I found any real evidence in Starbird's book for the offspring of this ˜sacred marriage'. The brooch the black madonna is wearing in the abbey church of Saint Victor's is not enough to convince me.
Anyhow, it does not make any difference to me whether Jesus was married or not. He was human, wasn't he? Most of the apostles must have been, most of the women with Jesus also. The many coincidences that Starbird finds, pointing to the importance of Mary Magdalene, are interesting enough without a marriage. For me too, the Mary Magdalene that I find in the gospels, canonical and apocryphal, must have been of paramount importance in the early days of Christianity. Even the little bits that a close study of the gospels yield, make people around the world very much aware of the sad loss of feminine values in the Church, of the resulting damage to the latter's evangelising role and to the well-being of the world in general, a society that has taken so many of its standards from (a very misunderstood) Christianity. I share Starbird's anxieties about the Church. I am like her looking forward to happier times.

Her book has provided an answer for my burning question of the past quarter century what the evangelist really had in mind when he remarked about this courageous woman that she was ˜also called the Magdalene'. Somehow it does not feel like just positioning her in some town or village He pointed her out as a fortress or watchtower. It was gematria he used for those with eyes to see. The word with the mystical meaning of the number 153: the whole community of the Church, the ˜Bride'?

The Goddess in the Gospels is a very interesting book and well worth reading. However, I find Wijngaard's latest study On the Ordination of Women, a Cuckoo's Egg Tradition, more convincing. It is based on a search of ancient documents, official formulas for the ordination of women deaconesses, tomb stones bearing names of deaconesses and priests, numerous paintings and sculptures and the testimony of a great many Bible scholars. For those who have become interested in the matter: the route Wijngaards travelled is fully documented in his website www.womenpriests.org .

Barendrecht, 1 december 2001

Please, credit this document as belonging to www.womenpriests.org.
Overview of this section Picture Meditations Bibliography Picture


http://www.womenpriests.org/magdala/starbird.htm

[This message was edited by Prophetessofrage on December 03, 2003 at 06:22 PM.]
 
 
 
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December 4, 2003 1:24 PM

Oh, bosh, prophetess,

Think about it: how can a "concatenation of coincidences" lead to any conclusion at all? Coincidences are just that, coincidences, and by calling them that your reviewer has already admitted that they don't mean anything, and then she says that these coincidences carry the possibility that Jesus and Mary Magdalen were married.

How does Starbird know that this chalice is the Holy Grail and not a communion chalice? Didn't she ask someone? Why the left hand of Jesus missing? I don't suppose that any church image has ever suffered damage? Doesn't she care why it's the left hand? Didn't she ask? Or did she simply interpret the image as she wanted to? As you seem to do?

If Starbird ever really wanted to find out if a "sacred partnership" was the way of the early Church, all she'd have to do is to read the Bible. I think it's interesting that she did not go to this basic and foundational document and do some primary research for the answers to her questions. There she would find that Jesus and Mary had no "sacred partnership," but that men and women were told to have equal respect and station--not necessarily function--for "in Christ there is neither Jew nor Grek, male nor female...but all are one in Christ."

But of course, it is not nearly as much fun to read and study the Bible as it is to tour French cathedrals and to interpret images according to your own liking and to try to believe that you are doing ground-breaking "research."

Besides, when were these cathedrals built? In the first century? I don't think so. So they are not reliable as holders of first-century fact.

Looking more like fortresses than watchtowers? What a surprise. Could that have anything to do with the Vikings and other raiders who prowled the land, looting monasteries as well as villages? Many monks were killed in those days until the monasteries were walled. It had nothing to do with the translation of the name, "Magdala," which is a place-name, not a meaning-name.

This review is full of supposition and interpretation and as such is not worth the time you took to cut-and-paste it here.

Um, how coud the "sister-bride" of Song of Songs be Mary Magdalene, when Song was written long before the first century when Mary lived?

the reason that Starbird has seen what she saw whether it iwas there or not is explained in the first paragraph of the review. Starbird needs to see the feminine in more places, so she sees it. If you look for anything hard enough you'll see it whether it's there or not.

Not long ago I kept talking to a hallucinating woman after calling her church to call her husband--they knew his number, I did not--to come and rescue her. I wanted her to stay safe with me until she could be safe at home. Well, while we were taking she became convinced that I was Jesus.

My friends tell me that that conviced them that she really was hallucinating. Such friends.

She saw what she saw because she wanted to see it. It was wrong. Starbird has a strong need--which itself is neither bad nor unjustifiable--to see more of the feminine in the world, and especially in the Church. This is how she does it. I'm glad that she is more satisfied, but she went to the wrong places to find it and so has seen what isn't there.
 
 
 
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December 4, 2003 2:00 PM

Shut up you dumb, psycho, lesbian sniffing at my backside. You're a sick little white girl in need of therapy. No one's listening to your moronic rantings you twit. You're just an exhibit of the evil embedded in whites. Get lost, or better still, let me let the REAL BLACK MAN tell you what he and I think of your twisted, psychotic, deranged ass.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AGAIN JAMES CHESTER THE GREAT: TO THE TWIT, NITWIT, MELESI:"The posts are so long I have to wait until later. I became exasperated that your ignorance could be so obvious, and your argument so loud.

You are in the wrong place. Your position has been shown to be wrong generations ago. Europe's "experts" have tried repeatedly to make Egypt a white nation. They tried to make it a red nation. Anything dear God, but not a black nation. Please read: "The African Origin of Civilization -- Myth or Reality" by Cheikh Anta Diop.

The "fraternity" of archaeologists tried to keep this man buried by not giving him his doctorate pursuant to his thesis on Egypt. It turned Europe's history of Africa on its head. It took seven years, and according to my information the intervention and leverage of John Henrick Clarke, PhD (Cornel University) to break the freeze on this break-through research.

Nmaginate, Kevin41, IMMORTAL LOGIC, Yssys, and others are being very nice to you. They are treating you with respect. But, continuing to push this age-old "snow job" is starting to get old fast. This constant effort to bury the history of Africa with what we all know is garbage is becoming offensive. You can't be that dumb!!! Clearly your are ignorant of the history of Africa, or misinformed. But, if it is a case of misinforation, when, and WHERE, did you go to school that such trash is being taught. If you got the information on your own, you need to stop. If you said this in person to someone, you might literally be in danger. It's an insult to the intelligence of all people of African ancestry. Except maybe the Egyptians themselves who also don't want to own their history. Are you Egyptian? Is that the problem?

I'll send you a copy of the book if you will e-mail me your address. Come back after you have read the book, and let's talk.

Please.

If you are a "begat" enthusiast, read "Race and Religion" by Frereick K. Price, PhD. It is considered a definitive work. And its recent --- within the last three years. He is a very well known minister out of Los Angeles, CA. He was apparently provoked into researching the subject after some "inappropriate" in the "community of nationally-known" pastors. So he "went to the book." Check it out.

PEACE"

Jim Chester

You are who you say you are. Your children are who you say you are.



P.S. Psst black women, check this out, the moron won't follow this post as I've once again outwitted the nitwit. However, since it's Friday, why not keep it light as we watch this demoralized, scarred, wounded white she-heifer stupidly perform her demon act. This idiot thinks she will avenge herself because I for laughs, dragged her stupid ass up one side of the board and down the next, of which we all are still hysterically laughing over especially since the nitwit is showing everyone how scarred she is, to the point that she stupidly thinks she will do the same ON MY POST of which I'm entitled to come into. Isn't she a pathetic, wench? Big Grin

What's worse is, the moron won't notice that I put this P.S. up above her stupidity as I'm sure you're following her anguish, bitterness, humiliation that she keeps trying to 'redeem' herself from only to fall farther into the ditch where TRUTH stuffed her dumbass. Did you notice her try to stir her jackasses up when I burnt her like toast by showing the board how real black men know she's an ignorant psycho? Big Grin

Anyway, watch the idiot never follow this, annnnd, have a blessed weekend see you next week.

[This message was edited by Prophetessofrage on December 05, 2003 at 10:48 AM.]
 
 
 
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December 4, 2003 7:57 PM

What a devastating answer, prophetless. You call me names and then post someone else's post that's wrong anyhow.

Heavens, I am abashed.

Who was it who said, "I always use quotes. It saves me from original thinking"? You are a sure and certain manifestation of that kind of mindlessness.

Ah, well.

Have you nothing constructive to say? Is there that much emptiness in your soul that you can only snarl and spit and hate those who disagree with you for good reason?

Those aren't voices in your head, prophetless. They are echoes.
 
 
 
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December 6, 2003 10:01 AM



***********************************************************
'Sometimes life is obscene' - Black Crowes

Commerical Hall of Fame - All time list

'Who in the hell left the gate open???' Confused

'Somebody put roots on me' Frown

'I've fallen, and I can't give up!!!' broscream
 
 
 
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December 19, 2003 4:33 PM

This white girl named Melesi need to take a hike. I guess it gives these white people some sort of stimulation to come on black websites and TRY to talk against us. The things this white girl say is bullsh*t. YT will never believe black truth....but their quick to believe a white lie.
 
 
 
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December 20, 2003 12:36 AM

No,

Just where am I wrong? Saying that I am doesn't make me so. Prove it.
 
 
 
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December 21, 2003 4:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Melesi:
No,

Just where am I wrong? Saying that I am doesn't make me so. Prove it.


you are wrong in everything u say. You white people can't handle truth, so you'll put some sh*t on here that was written by some racist white people.

Europe was named after a black goddess.
Don't hate..Congradulate.

Sistaz always had it going on, and still do.
 
 
 
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December 21, 2003 7:37 PM

No,

Uh, no.

If I'm wrong in "everything" I say, then you should have no trouble refuting me. Try it.

Europe was not named for a goddess. It is a Greek construction meaning "the land" or "the face of the earth." It comes from eurus, or "broad," and either op, "to see" or ops, "the face." So it means colloquially, "All this land we see" or "All this land we stand on."

The idea that Europe comes from the name of a goddess is an interpretation of a mildly popular nineteenth-century American spiritist's so-called "automatic writing."

So your belief that Europe is named after a goddess is a white man's belief.

Enjoy your white fantasies.
 
 
 
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December 23, 2003 3:52 PM

quote:
Originally posted by no:
_This white girl named Melesi need to take a hike. I guess it gives these white people some sort of stimulation to come on black websites and TRY to talk against us. The things this white girl say is bullsh*t. YT will never believe black truth....but their quick to believe a white lie._


Hi No, yes, great comment. It's the arrogance of Satan their true father who spawned them that makes them think they can spew their lies and deceits as if it is soundness of mind.

None the less, the sun will soon sizzle their sick asses into the darkness they loathe. The girl is schizoid and so is her colored boy helpers sniffing at her claws.
 
 
 
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